#166 - Flakes

Summary

Man of the Year – Champions of Friendship

Episode #166: Flakes

Hosts: Matt Ritter & Aaron Karo
Date: January 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the enduring problem of “flakes” in adult friendship circles — those friends who don’t show up, cancel at the last minute, or are impossible to make plans with. Comedians and friendship advocates Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo break down types of flakiness, why it happens, how to deal with it, and how not to let flakes mess with your social life. The episode also features a thoughtful listener Q&A about finding emotionally mature, non-flaky friends as a parent.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Strollers, Stains, and Setting the Tone

• [00:15 – 03:30] Light Banter: The hosts kick off with a tangent on fancy strollers and the logistical nightmares of cup holders—relatable scenes of parenthood that set a casual, humorous tone.
  • "I've spent almost three years trying to find a cup holder that actually doesn't spill coffee. It's not possible."
    — Matt ([02:42])

What Is a Flake? Breaking Down Definitions

• [03:42 – 05:30] Defining “Flake”:
  Two main kinds are discussed:

  1. Those who make plans but cancel last minute or just don’t show up.
  2. Those who never commit enough to actually make plans.

• Worst Kind? The consensus: those who commit, then bail or ghost.

  • "People who make plans and don't crawl up."
    — Matt ([04:22])

• Aaron’s Take: He self-identifies as someone who doesn’t tolerate flaky friends—with the comedic exception of “my friend Nicole” who will either ghost for two years or, “she takes me to the Super Bowl.”
  ([05:00])

Psychoanalyzing the Flaker

• [06:13 – 07:32] Why do people flake?
  • Lack of self-awareness or respect for others' time
    "One is flakes, they don't think about respecting people's time ... they're a little lacking in self-awareness."
    — Matt ([06:25])
  • Hedging for better options (the “Corn Flakes” type).
  • Flakiness appears to thin out with age, but not disappear.

Cereal Tangent: Childhood Parallels

• [07:32 – 09:17] Cereal as a Friendship Analogy:
  A nostalgic (and comedic) detour into favorite sugary cereals and how little cereal boxes at sleepovers or camp are a metaphor for mixed groups of friends—some sweet, some plain.

Social Dynamics: When Is Flakiness Forgivable?

• [09:17 – 13:29]
  • The “lowest form of flake” is the friend always holding out for something better.
  • Jesse’s Experience: Matt shares his wife’s ongoing struggle with flaky friends and their evolution into “friend emeritus”—someone you accept has zero reliability but you enjoy when present.
    • "If you want a flaky friend, but never put yourself in a situation where you're gonna get burned by them."
      — Matt ([12:43])
  • One-on-one Dinners: If someone cancels repeatedly, it’s time to set new boundaries.

Practical Flake Management Strategies

• [13:29 – 15:00]
  • Never plan important one-on-ones or leave good company for a known flake.
  • “Never leave your house until you have the GPS tracker on them.”
    — Matt ([14:06])
  • Humorous analogies: taking a sleeping pill before a delayed flight = trusting a flake before confirmation.

Self-Awareness & Accountability

• [15:18 – 16:34] Have you ever flaked?
  • Matt admits occasional flakiness, but Aaron claims he just says “no” upfront rather than commit and cancel. “Particle flakes” (accidentally RSVPing to events for info, then not attending) get a pass.
    • "I've never flaked on anybody." — Aaron ([15:40])
    • “I think almost everybody's on the flake spectrum.” — Matt ([30:32])

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Listener Question: Finding Mature, Reliable Friends as a Parent

[18:02 – 29:14]

The Question (from "A.D."):

• 40-year-old dad, tough upbringing, values honesty and showing up, but finds adult social circles “like high school hallways: status chasing, fake friendliness, exclusion, drama cycles.”
• Q: How do you make emotionally mature, real friends as an adult/parent? How do you avoid feeling “too much” for seeking deeper connections?

Hosts’ Reflections and Advice:

• Check Your Narrative: Matt suggests the listener’s negative lens is shaped by a few bad impressions—it’s not universally as dramatic as it seems ([19:19]).
• Go Slow: Don’t “come in too hot” looking for deep connections right away; depth takes time ([20:41], [28:35]).
• Interest-Based Friendships: Focus on activity-based groups (e.g., gym, pickleball) instead of solely on school/dad circles ([23:32], [26:56]).
• Reframe Expectations: Give people more of a chance; sometimes surface relationships deepen over time.
  • "Friendship does run on obligation a little bit."
    — Matt ([30:42])
• Start Small: Try bonding one-on-one before seeking group acceptance ([25:27]).
• Self-Awareness: Reflect on whether childhood survival mechanisms/filters make you prejudge others.
• Let People In: Depth arises from ongoing, reciprocal vulnerability—don’t force it, but create opportunities.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Flakiness isn't just some ancillary trait. As people get older and they start really doing the inventory and evaluating where they want to spend their time and energy, you really fall off that list because flakiness is a very bad quality."
  — Matt ([31:11])

• "Never plan a one on one with a flake."
  — Matt ([13:29])

• "The sooner you accept people for what they are, then you're not harping on what they aren't."
  — Matt ([12:43])

• "Never leave a friend to go meet a flake."
  — Matt ([13:37])

• "Slow and steady wins the race."
  — Aaron ([29:14])

• "If you want deeper connections, you have to let people in, but not all at once."
  — Paraphrased from Matt ([28:21])

---

Flow of the Episode (Timestamps)

• 00:15–03:30: Bouncing into banter: Cup holders, strollers, and stains—setting a playful, real-life parenting scene.
• 03:42–05:30: Defining “flakes” and sharing personal policies
• 06:13–09:17: Why people flake, cereal as social metaphor
• 09:17–13:29: Deep dive on flake psychology—“friend emeritus” status and boundaries
• 13:29–15:00: Practical strategies—how to not get burned by flakes
• 15:18–16:34: Have you ever flaked? Owning up, or not
• 18:02–29:14: Listener Q&A—challenges of making real, mature friends as a parent
• 29:14–32:01: Concluding thoughts on flakiness, respect, and closing jokes

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Final Thoughts

• Friendship—like cereal—comes in all flavors; but nobody wants the Corn Flake who’s all promise, no presence.
• Flakiness, once established as a trait, sticks and marks you down in social circles.
• If you’re seeking real depth, start small, be vulnerable at a reasonable pace, and don’t let a few shallow interactions sour your view of adult friendship.

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To the flakes out there:
“Let us know why you flake… but you’ll probably forget to reach out to us.”
— Aaron ([31:53])

---

Outro:
"Be good to yourself. Be good to your friends."
— Aaron ([32:05]) & Matt ([32:10])

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Of the year. Man of the Year. Man of the Year.

[A]

Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Aaron Caro.

[B]

I'm Matt Ritter.

[A]

And make sure to check out our Audible original, the buddy system at audible.com/the buddy system. And also check out our merch and watch our videos at man of the Year podcast dot com. Matt, Today we're talking about one of our number one bugaboos. Is that a. Is that. Is that the right word?

[B]

That's not a weird term that we don't want to look up and find out we're canceling.

[A]

Isn't that the name of a. Isn't that the name of a. Of a stroller brand?

[B]

Bugaboo.

[A]

It's very fancy. Very fancy. It's a fear. It's a fear. Bugaboo is a fear. But that is actually something.

[B]

Baby. I've got up a baby. Up a baby, too, baby.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You're pushing a stroller with two. A double decker.

[B]

Okay. Oh, you want to get into this real quick. A little tangent.

[A]

Let's get into it.

[B]

So we have both the double decker and the double wide. We like the double wide.

[A]

Well, because it takes up more room and you're. That's very on brand for you.

[B]

No, it's actually weirdly, I. I don't. I don't find it hard to maneuver. A lot of people find it hard to maneuver. I actually find it easier to maneuver than having a very long one. Like, especially for bumps and stuff. Like, for bumps and like, I don't know. As long, like, as long as I'm kind of. I know where I'm going. I like the double wide.

[A]

But the thing is a big weight difference between your left side and your right side of your right side and the left side.

[B]

Same with Brenner and Julian.

[A]

Yeah. As opposed to straight ahead, where you're just pushing straight.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, we're. I bet you I'm in the minority of liking the double wide.

[A]

Yeah, it's in the. In the. In the one where they're front, back. Who's in the front? How does that even work?

[B]

So, first of all, we couldn't even figure out how to put this thing together properly. We have them stacked. We have them like. So Brenner's like. It's stadium seating.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

So, Julie. So whatever. For whatever reason, Julian only. Brenner only fits in, like, the back one. So Julian just, like, hanging out of the front one. It's a little chair.

[A]

And how What's. What's the cup holder situation?

[B]

None. Disaster. I've spent almost three years trying to find a cup holder that actually doesn't spill coffee. It's not possible.

[A]

I mean, there's got. I mean, there must be a. A. A. What's it called? A cottage industry of cup holders for these things. It's not built into the handle.

[B]

No, they're attachments. They're all. Well, there are some that have them built into the, like, bigger dash thing. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, man. I was. I was next. This woman on a plane a couple weeks ago, it reminded me of you. She had an iced coffee, and she was just trying to put her stuff above. Do whatever while holding this iced coffee. I'm like, this iced coffee is going to go all over me.

[B]

I mean, I don't have a shirt that doesn't have coffee stains on it.

[A]

At one point, she put it into the. Well, you know, whatever the net she put it in.

[B]

I knew that, too.

[A]

Yes. And I'm like, this thing is gonna explode. But this is, I think today's part.

[B]

The iced coffee net.

[A]

The iced coffee bag.

[B]

The net. Yeah. There is the net.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it was. It was very precarious. But I think this. Today's topic will actually something that we're sort of on the same side of, which is flakes. Flaky friends. Flaky friends. So first, let's define our terms here, because. Right. Flaking could be you make plans and they cancel at the last minute. Don't show, show up late. But they. It could also be people who. You can't even make the plans with to begin with. You think there's a distinction? Which one worse? Oh, definitely not form.

[B]

To people who make plans and don't crawl up.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

As opposed to the people who just can never get it on the calendar.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, listen, they're. They're two. They're birds of a feather.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, you've had multiple. I don't. Does it count as flaking when you've had multiple friends just show up so late that you just left?

[B]

That's hilarious.

[A]

Is that flaking?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm surprised that you even have. I feel like Cairo doesn't tolerate flaky friends. So, like. Like the term is even. It's like a contradiction in terms.

[A]

Oh, I don't have any flaky friends. Except for my friend Nicole. We've mentioned before who you just can't. You can't get a hold of her. But that just baked into her. She you know, she either, either don't see her, she doesn't show up for two years, or she takes to the Super Bowl. So I'll just deal with it.

[B]

So you do have, you do have a flaky friend.

[A]

I do have a flaky friend. I don't suffer people who just don't show up or, or who cancel at the last minute or anything like, I mean, that's just unacceptable behavior.

[B]

So I don't really. But my wife does have flaky friends.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I'm not going to call them out here, but you know, so maybe we talked about this years ago. She has a couple that just hard to pin down and also don't show. Both. The Double Flake, the, the, the, the sugar cereal, the Frosted Flakes.

[A]

Hard to pin down. But then they don't show up or they cancel.

[B]

So like, you know, they don't, they, they, they, they don't give you an answer. And then when they do say they're gonna come still, it's, it's a crapshoot.

[A]

Okay, so can we, let's, let's psychoanalyze the, the psyche of a flaker. Is it because they're trying. They have better things to do when they're hedging their bets? Is it because they have a crazy life?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I find just my opinion, I find that it's a combination of things. One is flakes. They don't think about respecting people's time. Like they're, they're not even really aware. They're a little lacking in self awareness.

[A]

Well, they don't practice radical self awareness.

[B]

Yeah. The other piece, I think, you know, what you're saying is right. Is that like there, there is a brand of flakes. These are the. What's like an off brand Flake cereal. They're the brand of that. That know nobody really likes the ones that are looking for something better.

[A]

Yeah, I mean they're, they're Corn Flakes.

[B]

Yeah, just, just plain cornflakes. Nobody really. So I think there is a brand of that. I think as you get older, those tend to thin out a bit.

[A]

Matt, do you remember? I mean, remember, probably they still have it now, those little boxes of cereal where you get like a, like a, like a multi pack of all the different flavors.

[B]

Do I remember how. How dare you, sir? How dare you?

[A]

What's your favorite sugary cereal?

[B]

Well, so in order, it's Lucky Charms, Frosted Flakes, Honey Nut, Cheerios, Kicks. Even a sugar cereal. Yeah, that's the whole list.

[A]

No Neither is really. Yeah. Okay. Frosted flakes. I agree. I like corn pops.

[B]

You know, that reminded me of the. Are corn pops the same? I gotta have my pops with the frog?

[A]

Yes, that's them.

[B]

Gotta have my pops. Yeah, those were pretty good.

[A]

Okay, what about chocolate Rice Krispies?

[B]

No, not into any of that stuff. Chocolate in the cereal? No, thank you.

[A]

But it's chocolate milk. You don't like chocolate milk?

[B]

No, I only like the Yoohoo chocolate drink. The process stuff.

[A]

That's all you could afford, so.

[B]

All I could afford at A.L.I.E.

[A]

Is.

[B]

Wait, so is. Is kicks even a sugar cereal?

[A]

Is.

[B]

Is.

[A]

No, Kicks is like. Kicks is for kids, man. It's good.

[B]

Yeah. I like Rice Krispies. I haven't had sugar. I haven't had cereal at all in a long time. But those boxes were amazing. Because if you recall, I don't know if you knew this. You remember you could eat them out of the box.

[A]

Yes. There was like a way you folded them up or something.

[B]

Yeah, they were like a little diorama opening where you would put a little, like surgically open the middle, fold it open, and you had a little cereal boat.

[A]

Yeah, I do remember that.

[B]

You poured the milk inside the little plastic bag. I mean, it's disgusting.

[A]

Oh, man. Corn pops. I haven't had those in decades. I love corn pops. Anyway, so I totally interrupted you, but. So we were. We were discussing the psyche. Oh, people who are trying. Who think they have better things to do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which to me, that's the lowest form of flake. Like, the worst kind of flake. Because that's not even. Like, really? You don't want your friends to be like, do I have something better to do?

[B]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. As you get older, I think that kind of flake kind of dissipates because it's like. What?

[A]

Wait, I. I didn't even. I didn't tell you this. This is a couple months ago. I was. Tell me what you think about this. Is this flaky? This is a reverse flake. I was on my way to. To best friend Mike. Like a hol. A Halloween party. In the car, driving while in the car. I got a text from a buddy. He's like, hey, decided to have a Halloween thing tonight. Like, come over. It was 45 minutes from the time that he texted me. Okay, what do you mean, decided to have a Halloween? Like, it's 45.

[B]

Got a last minute invite. You got. You were on the back.

[A]

I did check, Matt. I did check that everyone got it, it wasn't, I didn't get the last. Okay.

[B]

That's called being spontaneous.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Spontaneous. Throwing a last minute part. People are still allowed to throw last minute parties.

[A]

We cannot judge set 45 minutes beforehand on Halloween.

[B]

Listen, somebody wants to throw a last minute thing, that's great. I'm, I, I support it.

[A]

Okay. Anyway, but I was saying that, that the people who are always looking for a better option, those are low on my friend totem pole. I don't have any of those friends, basically.

[B]

So Jesse had a couple and over the years I saw her get really upset about it, you know, and it would be like canceling a one on one dinner, like not showing up for a one on one dinner on a Friday night. And it's like, then she has no plans, you know, so. But these are people she wanted to stay friends with. So I think over the years she learned to just not expect them. They're kind of like a friend emeritus. If you won't remember, we came up with that term, friend emeritus. They're still friends, but zero expectation friendship.

[A]

For a one on one.

[B]

That.

[A]

Yeah. For a one on one dinner you get maybe one cancellation a year. One cancellation every four hangouts.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's gotta be. Unless it's an emergency, you can't do it the day of.

[B]

Right, I agree. Agreed. But so question about this flake thing. So a lot of times I think in her situation the flakes would. Where people that one on one, when they are together, truly enjoy their company. Truly are. Can you be a good friend in the moment but not be a good friend?

[A]

Ooh, ooh.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's a hard hitting question. Right. Like they're, when they're locked in, it's a blast. But it's hard to get them locked in.

[B]

Yes. She has a couple of like that that fit that bill. And so, you know, I have a hard time with it because obviously I love my wife and I want to protect her from, you know, bad feelings and hurt feelings and all that. So I think I'm glad that she know, like she basically rid herself of, you know, the expectation that these people are real friends.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So she's downgraded them in a category. You know, I always sort of. My mantra is like, you know, the sooner you accept people for what they are, then you're not harping on what they aren't. And as grown ups like, you're allowed to just have if you want a flaky friend, but never put yourself in a situation where you're gonna get burned by them.

[A]

I like how you just said, you know what I always say. And you just said something you've never said before. I've never, never heard you say that. Yes. They're not a holistic friend. I don't love that. But you know, again, I guess I just described I have a friend like that too. Yeah, you're right. As long as your expectation is I'm not gonna get a hold of them, they may cancel on me, but I, like, enjoy it, then it's fine. If you get together and you don't enjoy it, then cut them.

[B]

Never plan a one on one with a flake.

[A]

Never go to a second location with a flake because they won't make it to the first location.

[B]

Never leave a friend to go meet a flake.

[A]

Right? Yeah, flakes. Although if a flake is available, maybe.

[B]

If you were somewhere and the flake is dbd. Don't do it. Suckers. Move.

[A]

What's ebd?

[B]

Tbd? I'm saying if the flakes like, oh, yeah, I think I'm gonna meet you at this thing. Come meet me. No, that's disaster.

[A]

Yeah. Have you ever played your house?

[B]

Never leave your house until you have the GPS tracker on them.

[A]

You know what it's like? Do you ever take like a Xanax or sleeping pill on a plane?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you ever take it too early and then the plane gets delayed?

[B]

Oh, it's the worst.

[A]

So that same thing with a flake, it's like never. Never. What will you. What did you just say?

[B]

I said never leave your house until you've got gps. Until you've got eyes on the flake's location.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That just reminded me. I was on a flight and I did that and it was delayed and I had the lay down seat and they wouldn't let me lay it down. I was so tired.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

On the tarmac. And it was like an hour delayed and I. And the guy was like, you can't. I'm like, I'm so. I can't sit up. Right. I can't do it. My Brenner calls them my sleep cookies.

[A]

Wait, what is it?

[B]

Melatonin.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They may or may not have been dosed to our children.

[A]

Got it. Oh, my God. You're. Your sleep cookies. That's great.

[B]

Yeah. Daddy, Daddy, can I sleep cookie?

[A]

Have you ever. Have you ever flaked onto someone?

[B]

Yes, I. I'm sure I have. I can't like, imagine that I haven't flaked on people. You know, I think we're you know, we're gonna go do the inventory. I'm sure we're all guilty of it at some point where we said we were gonna go somewhere and didn't, but I guess it's like how you flake and what you do about it afterwards that matters. Maybe.

[A]

Yeah. I've never flaked in anybody.

[B]

Well, what do you define as flaking? I mean, if you said you were gonna come to something and then you didn't come, have you never not done that?

[A]

Correct. I, we, we talked about this like years ago on the pod. I just say no.

[B]

You say yes, that you were going to go somewhere. No, I'm saying like a paperless post or something. You've never RSVPDs to a paperless person, then didn't go.

[A]

No, I don't, I don't, I don't respond. And then I wait till now if I can go or not.

[B]

Well, look, I, I, look, I, I think, you know, friendship, you know, isn't something sometimes you just aren't feeling like going to somewhere. But if you said you're gonna go, you should go, I agree with that.

[A]

I, I will say when I've done it, which, which is on part of full. Yeah, because I'm part of full. You have to say yes to figure out where it is.

[B]

Oh, okay, so you have flaked on part of it.

[A]

Particle flakes don't count. Powerful flakes don't count.

[B]

Yeah, okay, I'm with that particle. Where did they come from? All over my, all over my text box.

[A]

Should we, should we take a listener question? All right, we'll be right back with a listener question.

[C]

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[D]

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[C]

Hey, hate to do this. Could we reschedule our morning hike? I was just about to ask the same next week. Yes, it's Dunkin original blend time. Staying at home with Dunkin'. Don't mind if I. I do.

[A]

The home with Duncan is where you want to be. Okay guys, this is asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram at Man of the Year podcast and we'll answer it on the show. Matt, this is a great question. I think this is a Matt special. It's actually one of our most thoughtful questions from Instagram. He didn't say whether he wanted to be anonymized, so I'm just going to anonymize. We'll call him. We'll call him A.D. just gonna read the whole thing. Hey guys. Love the episode on finding fringe friends. I'm 40, married and a dad of 3, 11, 9 and 6. Oh boy. I come from a tough upbringing, so I've had to build a lot of emotional awareness and discipline because of that. I really value honesty, vulnerability and people who show up. What I keep running into though is that a lot of adult social circles feel like, quote, high school hallways, status, chasing, fake friendliness, subtle exclusion, drama cycles, all surface level. I'm not built for that, but it feels like that's what's most of what's out there. My question is how do you make real emotionally mature friends as a dad when the social landscape feels shallow or toxic? How do you avoid feeling, quote, too much for wanting deeper connections? Would love your guys take. Okay, that's good.

[B]

It's a very honest question. Very vulnerable, very raw. You feel it, feel it in his bones. This guy wants to make friends and has the ability and you'll do it. Let's just back up a second. I don't, don't. I haven't had that experience in my friend making right as a dad and I just, you know, I think it's a blanket kind of generalization that isn't true. It's a little bit of a limiting belief that you know, how the social landscape is filled with, you know, dramatic, exclusionary, grown up parents. I think that that is just from the limited experiences that have left a bad taste in our listeners mouth.

[A]

By the way, one of the examples was drama cycles. I don't even know what that is. Is that a cycle?

[B]

I don't I don't even know. Like, I just. I so don't relate to that. In my, you know, three years of new parenting, in my, you know, neighborhood, in my school, in my. Whatever things I'm doing, it sounds like. Let's just back up two things. One is, you know, maybe you're just not connecting with the right people. And again, we always say, like, you know, if it's not the right people, then maybe you're in the wrong, you know, place for you. But the other thing that I think I'm hearing, and this is, you know, not to act like we know this person. You're maybe coming in a little hot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Sounds like he wants to go deep and hard and fast and. And maybe he's doing it a little too quick.

[A]

First of all, you're telling me that your parent friends. There's not drama.

[B]

Have you. I don't know, have you heard me talking about parent drama? Really?

[A]

Well, also, I would not. I don't.

[B]

Not really.

[A]

Tell me. Not school, parent drama. This guy said this. This person said this. These people are getting divorced.

[B]

I don't know. Maybe I just don't indulge in that. I guess I'm not a gossip, so I'm not. Maybe I'm not privy to it. Maybe I'm the person they're gossiping about.

[A]

Matt floats above the herd. I'm not a gossip, he says.

[B]

I'm not a guy. I'm not a gossip. I still hear the gossip, huh? You can still check the gospel. Would I hear it? Yeah, I guess that's what I'm saying. I just don't feel like there's a lot of drama going on.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you know, look, yes. I mean, I think these things exist, but to the extent that, you know, there are plenty of people that do not indulge in that, you know, you might want to just try and seek out some. Try and try and seek out some other folks. But, you know, it's. It sounds like you really want this to happen. And so, you know, this idea of, like, I want to be deep with people, I want to, you know, get there. It takes time.

[A]

By the way, this is all an allegory for moving to la where everybody is, like, fake and, you know, there's all this status chasing, but then when you actually meet the right people, you realize, like, none of that is actually true.

[B]

Yeah. And I think a lot of times it's partly because you also, even with the people you do meet, you know, you just were prejudging People a lot.

[A]

Mm. Right? You gotta, you gotta give people a chance. Okay, let's just take this guy at his word. Let's say he's met the. The group.

[B]

They're all drama filled.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You don't want to deal with the bs. Well, where are you meeting them? Right? Is it the school? Like so then don't make friends at the school. Go out outside of that realm. If that's. If it feels like you're in a high school, you could just as easily go outside of that realm. Go join a gym, go join a pickleball league. You know, just go meet somebody in a different venue where there isn't a built in hierarchy. What do you think about that?

[A]

Well, you're assuming there is a built in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I also think he's married. So like, what's the what? What's the what the partner's job here is, is he or she filtering out the people for AD like, are some of these. Are she friends with some of these people and he doesn't like them.

[B]

Right? If you're letting your wife do the lift, then you're just ending up with the cake and pizza dudes.

[A]

Right? Cake and pizza dudes mean you're just standing around at birthday parties eating cake.

[B]

And pizza with dudes and being shallow with people that. Right. That you're not getting deeper with. Also, what are your interests? Right? Find people that share your interests as. As grown ups. A lot of our friendships are made in interest based activities.

[A]

Okay, let's do it. Let's do a trademark flip of the question here. You're one of these status chasing drama queens at the school or whatever. You know what he. What he assumes you are. Why do I want to be friends with A.D. like, right?

[B]

I already have my click. Right? I already have my parent click. Why do I want to bring this person into the fold? I think that's why he used the word exclusionary. So it is probably a little bit of that, right?

[A]

But it's also possible. Like again, our number one tip on the podcast is be the friend, right? What? Are you bringing anything to the table or you're just walking up to these people and expecting to be welcomed with open arms? I mean, maybe, maybe what you're interpreting as exclusionary is them. They already have a crew. This is the same as our question from a couple episodes ago where the guy's like, how come this my buddy's friends don't bring me to the bachelor party? Like, why should they?

[B]

Right? Right. Let's not assume that there's any mal intent. It's just they may already have a healthy, they may not be open down to friend dtf.

[A]

I mean, status chasing, subtle exclusion and drama cycle. Sounds like Matt. I mean, that's if someone just met Matt, maybe like he's status chasing with his sleep cookies. He's excluding people who are flaking on him. He's got dramas. It doesn't make any sense.

[B]

It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, what you said made sense, but look, I think what you're saying is very valid of like, hey, you know, you're coming at this like, hey, there's a group of people, I don't like them. They seem to already have their own crew. Right. They don't include me in their stuff. Okay, well, sometimes you have to build your own crew. Or again, when I said like hierarchy, maybe it's not that you shouldn't be hanging out with them at the school, but maybe you want to do it one on one.

[A]

I was literally just gonna say we. Let's start with one. Let's try to find one guy who you can stand or who you like better, better off who you like and try to work your way from this one guy as opposed to joining a whole crew. I mean, there's got to be normal people in this circle.

[B]

Yeah, but this person has extra sensitivities because he admitted he had a tough childhood and that probably built up his own walls or, you know, like perceptions on, on things. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe you had to do that. Look, and I, I empathize with that. Maybe you had to do that to survive. Right, but maybe we need to shed some of those beliefs that helped you get to, you know, through a rough childhood, you know, because it sounds like things aren't so rough anymore. So maybe, you know, we just need a little tweak of perspective.

[A]

Also, when you just meet someone, everything's surface level fake friendliness. Because you only know them by the surface and they're not actually friends yet.

[B]

Right. Give them a reason to get beyond surface.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because I, I, I'm, I'm vacillating. I don't want to diminish his feelings.

[B]

Like, they're very valid. They're very valid. People feel this way all the time, especially with school and parents and like you said, I, I, you asked me if I, I'm sure that, I'm sure it goes on. I'm sure it's all over my school too.

[A]

Yeah, because I think. Let's go back to what you said, Matt. About interest level friendships. What is your passion? Are you a gym guy? Are you a whiskey guy? Let's potentially look to outs to, to places with more like minded people. Then you might find more like minded friends. And then it's how do you make real emotionally mature friends? You know, again, this takes time. Right. I mean, you don't know what a person's emotional maturity battery is until you've hung out with them a of bunch.

[B]

Right. That's what I'm saying. Like to know those kinds of things, to prejudge these people as not having that emotional depth and maturity. It's, it's very hard to believe that that's, you know, universally true about all of them. And so I think it's a little bit of like, let's maybe give people more of a, of a chance too.

[A]

People do surprise you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People do surprise you.

[B]

So how do you make emotionally mature friends? It's a, I mean it's a good, you know, sort of question, but it's, it's not something you can really determine that quickly. Right. I mean the depth comes with time. The depth of your relationships come with time and you know, hours spent and consistency and let them in. Let people in.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, it comes with letting people in.

[A]

Right. That, that's what I was going to say. You know, I feel like instead of, oh, you know, you want people to open up to you. I mean that's probably gonna, you think that probably happens first before you open up to them.

[B]

Yeah. But I also said maybe he tried it and he tried it too quickly because I think there's a little bit of, you know, hey, I want people to be deep sometimes. You know, there's people who really want to make friends and a lot of us are uncomfortable with people giving a little too much depth early on. And that's just the rules of friend making. Same way in the rules of dating. You come in too hot, it's unattractive, it makes people scared. And I'm not saying you're wrong to do it and maybe there are people that will, that we'll connect with, but just as a general rule, there's a pace to these things.

[A]

Yeah. Slow. Slow and steady wins the race. Do we, do we answer that?

[B]

I mean, it's going to be a work in progress. There isn't like a definitive answer to, hey, I don't like this group that we don't know anything about, you know.

[A]

Yeah. So I would say one, reevaluate the, these guys that you have met. Number two, reevaluate Reevaluate your own filters when you're meeting these people. Are you coming in too hot? What's your wife or partner doing? And also look at friend groups that are outside of this area, such as interest based. Boom. All right, guys, I was asking for a friend and ad. Let us know. Please let us know what you think. That was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram man in the Year podcast. Okay, Matt, as we wrap up here, any final thoughts on the flakes of our lives?

[B]

Why?

[A]

Why? Just don't do it. Well, but to be fair, Matt, we, as we discussed in this episode and having others. You say yes, I say no. You know, so. So, you know, you, You. You've said yes to stuff and then bail. That's. I'm saying you're flaked, but, you know, that's a flake. You're on the flake spectrum.

[B]

I think almost everybody's on the flake spectrum. But yes, I try. I try to honor my commitments and I try to look at it as, oh, not, am I. Am I feeling it? Am I motivated?

[A]

Is.

[B]

Does this person need me? You know, this is somebody that I care about. Right. It's like partially. Look, you. You know, we talked about it. Like, friendship does run on obligation a little bit.

[A]

Do you think every flake is. Is to at least one or multiple people not a flake?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, you think flakes are flakes to everybody?

[B]

Yeah, because I have found, at least to the flakes, I know everybody else kind of views them that way.

[A]

Right. But these people have to hold down a job and a marriage in social life.

[B]

I'm just saying I feel that every time I've ever met a flake, anyone else who knows them, it's kind of the joke about them. It's kind of their defining trait in a really bad way. Because flakiness overshadows a lot of other good traits. So if you are a flake listening to this, just remember that flakiness isn't just some ancillary trait. As people get older and they start really doing the inventory and the evaluating of where they want to spend their time and energy, you really fall off that list because flakiness is a. It's a very bad quality.

[A]

I'd say there are flakes out there. Reach out to us and let us know why you flake. But they don't know their flakes and they will probably forget to reach out to us.

[B]

That's right. We're not getting any emails from the flakes.

[A]

All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Let us know about your experience with flakes. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends.

[B]

Love you, buddy. Love you, buddy.

[C]

Hey, hate to do this. Could we reschedule our morning hike? I was just about to ask the same next week. Yes, it's Dunkin original blend time. Staying at home with Dunkin'. Don't mind if I do.

[A]

The home with Dunkin's is where you want to be. We've all been there.

[B]

You hold onto a coupon but forget.

[A]

About it and suddenly it's expired.

[D]

Expired in 2012.

[A]

Dang it. Fortunately, by switching to Geico, you could save about $900 on car insurance without.

[B]

Ever touching a coupon. It feels good to save big.

[A]

It feels good to Geico. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.