What is more important: people or profits?

This week’s guest thinks that question is part of the problem.

In this episode of Management Muse, Cindi Baldi sits down with longtime HR executive and author Clark Ingram to unpack the HR myths he's spent decades dismantling. From the false binary of "people vs. profits" to the idea that zero turnover is impossible (spoiler alert: it isn't), Clark makes the case that HR has been asking the wrong questions, chasing the wrong metrics, and settling for the wrong goals.

Drawing from his experience in manufacturing, healthcare, and hard-to-fill roles, Clark explains why employee turnover, compensation, recruiting, and workplace culture are all connected. He shares stories about fixing the real reasons people leave, designing pay systems employees can understand, and building an employer brand that reflects why people actually want to work there.

This conversation is a practical look at what happens when HR focuses less on activity and more on results.

Episode Highlights:

Why "people first vs. profits first" is a false choice, and the third option that changes everything
The organizational-specific root cause approach to cutting turnover
Why engagement surveys are only as good as what you do after them
The Walmart driver story: how understanding what workers really want beats every hiring bonus you'll ever offer
Why compensation tied to time served is lazy, and what to measure instead
The case for zero: why employee turnover should be held to the same standard as customer experience
How to identify what actually makes your organization worth working for

About Clark Ingram:

Clark A. Ingram, is the Founder and President of People Profits, LLC - a financially focused Human Capital management consulting firm. We focus on Employee Turnover, Chronically Open Positions and Skills Gap. Over the next 30+ years he was the Chief Human Resources Officer for four companies, in four different industries from publicly to privately held.

Connect with Clark:

Churn: Proven Strategies to Achieve Zero Turnover | Linkedin

Watch This Episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/75EtkifhfyY

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Want to Go Deeper? Check Out Our Recommended Reading:

Sull, Donald, Charles Sull, and Ben Zweig. "Toxic Culture Is Driving the Great Resignation." MIT Sloan Management Review, January 2022. https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/toxic-culture-is-driving-the-great-resignation/
Mitchell, Terence R., Brooks C. Holtom, and Thomas W. Lee. "How to Keep Your Best Employees: Developing an Effective Retention Policy." Academy of Management Perspectives, vol. 15, no. 4, 2001. https://doi.org/10.5465/ame.2001.5897929

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