Podcast Summary: Manager Tools – How to Set Annual Goals (HOF 2025)

Episode Air Date: December 22, 2025
Hosts: Mike & Mark (Manager Tools)

Overview

This classic Manager Tools series (in three parts) is devoted to the actionable, practical, and effective process of setting annual goals. The hosts challenge the prevailing use of "SMART" goals, advocate for their alternative "MT Goals" methodology, and provide a comprehensive framework to make goal-setting both simpler and more results-driven. The series concludes with an instructive real-life story about transforming abstract principles into practical value, reinforcing that anyone can set meaningful, actionable goals regardless of role or context.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem with Traditional Goal-Setting (SMART Goals)

(Start – 34:13)

• Widespread Frustration: Managers often feel burdened by annual goal-setting, particularly the wordsmithing required by corporate frameworks. Many create goals just "to be noticed," fearing to set them too high or too low.

  "It's dramatic, it's high drama, it's soap-operatic... managers saying to themselves, 'we must do it just right'. Yes, yes, we must." (C, 05:56)

• Lack of Collaboration: Managers rarely share their goals, methods, or processes with peers, leading to inefficiency and missed opportunities for synergy.

  "Managers don't talk to each other nearly enough about the content of their goals. They don't share how they do it with their peers." (B, 06:48)

• Fundamental Flaws with SMART:

  • S.M.A.R.T. stands for Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant/Realistic/Results-oriented, and Time-bound/Tangible.
  • The hosts see issues with the multiplicity and vagueness of several letters, especially the R and T.
  • Organizations often end up with goals that fail to focus on the truly essential elements: measurement and deadlines.
  • Most goals labeled "SMART" aren’t actually smart, lacking clear metrics or timelines.
  • There’s a tendency toward over-editing for “specific/achievable/results-oriented” while neglecting the measurable and time-bound aspects.

  "Over two-thirds of the goals that I see developed by managers who have been told to use smart guidelines end up not being smart goals. They're not." (C, 28:26)

• Memorable Analogy:

  "If you set a SMART goal without a deadline, you’re in a 'weird parallel universe'…I simply do not see how you can have a goal that does not have a deadline." (C, 24:25)

2. Introducing MT Goals: Measurable & Time-Bound

(34:13 – 97:11)

• Core Recommendation:
  Focus exclusively on goals that are Measurable and Time-based ("MT Goals").

  "Any goal you come up with should…be measurable and…have a deadline." (C, 14:08)

• Why M & T Only?

  • Measurement and deadlines are what make goals real and actionable.
  • Everything else (specific, achievable, relevant) is either redundant or generally handled by context (e.g., bosses won’t allow irrelevant goals).

• Examples of MT Goals vs. Traditional:

  • Bad: "Improve outbound freight order processing to reduce negative impact."
  • Good: "Improve ship accuracy to 85% by October 30th." (C, 31:51)

• Iconic Examples:

  • JFK’s “put a man on the moon in this decade” – clear, measurable, and time-bound. (C, 32:00)

3. Practical Framework for Setting Effective Annual Goals

a. Six Recommendations for MT Goals

(45:06 – 75:08)

1. The Best Metrics Are Numbers

   • Use hard numbers; even for soft outcomes, create a quantifiable metric.
   • Convert abstract concepts to proxies or numerical scale (e.g., “number of customer complaints as a proxy for service quality”).

2. Zero Is a Number

   • Don’t be afraid to set ambitious targets like “eliminate X.” Zero, as a goal, can drive substantial improvement.
   • Example: "Eliminate waste due to shipping mistakes." (C, 51:15)

3. Consider Proxies

   • If the ideal metric is unavailable, use a closely linked proxy measure (e.g., survey responses, complaints count, referrals).

4. Consider Surveys (Caveat)

   • Useful if direct measurement is challenging, but may demand more effort.

5. Always Address Costs

   • Every manager should set at least one goal focused on reducing (or containing growth of) costs.

6. Avoid “Improving” as a Goal

   • “Improve”, “increase”, “enhance”, etc., are too vague—quantify the desired change.
   • "When you think goals, think targets." (C, 63:29)

b. Additional Broad Recommendations

(64:04 – 75:08)

• Stay Narrow:
  Focus on 2–3 key goals that matter most; resist the urge to impress with quantity.

  "Commit your life and career to the three big ones... take full credit for the rest, but the big three should be where you focus." (C, 65:54)

• Plan for Q4 Completion (by Q4):
  Set deadlines for the end of September, not December. This creates buffer for unexpected disruptions.

• Backwards Planning:
  Map out each step from the deadline back to the present, identifying dependencies and daily/weekly tasks to avoid “the Q4 scramble”.

• Front Load Tasks:
  Push to complete as much as possible early in the year. Use early momentum to beat slippage and allow for adjustments.

"Do your 12-month goal in nine months. If you can’t get it done in the first nine, chances are you won’t in the last quarter." (C, 67:12)

4. The Story of John and the Gate Guards (The Epilogue)

(77:24 – 97:11)

Summary

John, a manager of facility gate guards at a Fortune 200 company, is overwhelmed when tasked with creating “metrics” for his team—which, by nature, seemed unmeasurable. Seeking guidance, he reaches out to Mark for “the book” of performance metrics.

Mark coaches John to focus on what actually matters for the job:

• Employees value friendliness (courtesy) and punctual gate opening (timeliness).

These principles are then translated into two straightforward MT goals:

1. Timeliness — Track the “number of complaints about late gate opening.” Set the initial goal at zero.
2. Courtesy — Check for smiles: John samples guards' behavior and records if they smile at incoming employees.

As Mark notes:

"If a guy like John... can make it as simple as how many complaints and did you or did you not smile... I truly believe that effective, measurable and time-based goals are in reach for anybody." (C, 95:20)

Key Lessons from John’s Story

• Start with the obvious: What's important to those served?
• Use proxies: Complaints and smiles can stand in for softer traits.
• Anyone can do this: No secret book, no special pedigree required.
• Simplicity wins: Ease of measurement drives adoption and improvement.
• Metrics can evolve: Once you hit zero complaints, start tallying positive comments instead.

"We don’t tie ourselves slavishly to an old goal if it doesn’t serve our purpose anymore." (C, 92:10)

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On empty (MT) goals:
  "Measurability and timeliness are the only factors that count in effective goal setting." (C, 27:18)

• On setting a date:
  "A date is a number between 0 and 32 with one of the 12 months of the year next to it." (B, 40:46)

• On using imperfect metrics:
  "Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good here… just use the proxy, refine it over time." (B/C, 53:40–54:09)

• On staying narrow:
  "All of the great strategists... have as one of their core principles something that sounds like Napoleon’s mass at the point of decision, or Pareto… or Drucker’s admonition against three-ring circuses. Don’t come up with 10 goals. Come up with 3 you’d fall on your sword for." (C, 65:02-65:53)

• The John Madden moment:
  "That’s an MT goal... it just sounds good, doesn’t it? It’s John Madden’s BAM." (C/B, 31:54-32:00)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |---------------------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 03:34–07:10 | The drama and inefficiency of annual goal-setting | | 14:08–15:35 | What “MT Goals” are and why only M (Measurable) & T (Time-bound) matter | | 15:56–33:27 | Detailed breakdown and critique of SMART goals | | 36:58–43:11 | Rule #1 for effective goals: Use measurable & time-based only | | 45:06–45:56 | Six core guidance points for metrics and goals | | 64:04–69:21 | Staying narrow; planning for Q4 completion | | 69:31–73:53 | Backwards planning and front-loading tasks | | 77:24–97:11 | Epilogue – John and the Gate Guards Story |

Final Wrap-Up

• MT Goals (measurable and time-bound) are the foundation for annual goal-setting.
• Focus on numeric metrics and clear deadlines—not wordy, vague ambitions.
• Use proxies and surveys as needed, favoring simplicity and practicality.
• Limit the number of annual goals to the few that deliver the most impact.
• Backwards-plan and front-load work to avoid year-end crunch.
• Anyone can apply this approach, regardless of the complexity or perceived measurability of their team’s work.

"This story alone is not a manager tool. It’s not actionable, it’s not deliverable, but it is uplifting and inspiring. And for no other reason, your people deserve it. Period." (C, 97:11)

For Further Application

• Review your current goals: Are they measurable and time-bound?
• Eliminate vague verbs; replace them with numbers and deadlines.
• Share your goals and planning process with peers for collective improvement.
• Remember John and his gate guards: every responsibility can be measured and improved.

End of Summary