Manager Tools Coaching Model - Updated - Part 1

Summary

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Manager Tools Coaching Model – Updated – Part 1 (July 1, 2024)

Brief Overview

In this episode, the Manager Tools team (Kate, Mike, and Maggie) presents an updated look at their Coaching Model, part of their well-known “Manager Tools Trinity.” The episode addresses the practical “how-tos” of coaching within a management context, especially when feedback isn’t enough and how to help employees who are struggling. They debunk myths surrounding coaching, explain why it’s underutilized, and outline the foundational steps for coaching effectively in today’s business environment.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Coaching Matters in Management

• Coaching is integral to effective management. The best managers do not ignore development; they expect and reward continuous effort and improvement.
  • “Highly effective managers are not indifferent about development… They demand it, they expect it, they not only encourage it, they reward it…” (Kate, 01:04)
• Coaching isn’t just for employees who struggle—top performers need and deserve coaching, too (05:09).
• The desire for growth and development is present across all generations, including Gen Z (03:10).

2. Why Coaching is Rarely Used

• Coaching is one of the least-utilized tools in the Manager Tools Trinity (one-on-ones, feedback, coaching, and delegation).
  • “Coaching… is the least often used tool. It's the one that gets the least play honestly.” (Mike, 01:42)
• Many managers shy away from it because:
  • It requires long-term commitment and dedicated effort (03:40).
  • There is confusion and inconsistency about what “coaching” means in business (04:30).
  • It’s wrongly associated with negative events, like performance improvement plans in “late-stage coaching” (04:35).
  • Behavioral change feels high for coaching compared to just doing meetings.

3. The Manager Tools Coaching Model – The Seven Points

Purpose and Key Steps:

1. Encourage improved effectiveness (focus on encouragement, not just correction)
2. Coaching is necessary for today's rapidly changing (discontinuous) business landscape
3. Coaching has a bad reputation that must be confronted and corrected
4. Collaborate to set a goal
5. Collaborate to brainstorm resources
6. Collaborate to create a plan
7. The direct acts and reports on the plan
   Steps 4–7 will be covered more in depth in later episodes. Today’s focus is on WHY coaching and tackling misconceptions. (Kate, 05:15-06:05)

4. The Impact of Coaching Across the Performance Spectrum

• Most managers wrongly reserve coaching for the “problematic” or “star” employees. In reality, all directs benefit (08:22–09:43).
• Coaching is often mistaken for sending someone to a training class. While classes can be helpful as a resource, true coaching happens through ongoing interaction and joint effort (10:26).
• Senior leaders care more about consistent high-team performance (which regular coaching supports) than just not having low performers (12:47–13:18).

5. Strategic Value: Focus on Top Performers

• “Spending time with top performers produces more value than with weak performers.” (Kate, 12:47)
• After consistent one-on-ones (O3s), invest extra developmental energy in your strongest team members, as they provide the greatest return (13:10-13:18).
• One-on-ones are foundational; without them, coaching is harder and less effective (14:23).

6. Coaching in a Discontinuous Business World

• The contemporary environment is marked by rapid, sometimes unpredictable change; managers must be proactive with coaching to keep pace (16:33).
• Feedback is key for daily course corrections, but coaching enables longer-term, transformational leaps—necessary for surviving big shifts, not just incremental improvements (18:17–19:58).
• “We can’t stick with just evolutionary growth through annual goals and daily feedback. Big ideas require big leaps, bigger running jumps. And so we really want another technique, a longer term, bigger technique for learning and growth.” (Mike, 18:17–19:58)

7. Coaching’s Bad Reputation and How to Fix It

• Coaching’s negative business reputation stems from its frequent use as a last-ditch effort before termination, rather than as a development tool (21:08–22:03).
• Many employees interpret “coaching” as punishment or as a prelude to being fired.
  • “The word is coaching. Because coaching sounds like I'm getting ready to get terminated, Right? This is not a voluntary thing for me to do. I either engage in this or I won't be around.” (Kate, 22:03)
• Real coaching is a positive, growth-oriented endeavor—just like in sports or performing arts.
• Personal stories: Kate describes being coached about professional relationships and initially resenting it, but later recognizing it as pivotal in her career (24:48–25:42).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Importance of Coaching:
  “The purpose of coaching, encouraging improved effectiveness, improved effectiveness over time. This third pillar of the manager tools effective manager trinity…” (Mike, 06:05)
• On Value Focus:
  “Spending time with top performers produces more value than with weak performers.” (Kate, 12:47)
• On One-on-Ones’ Foundational Role:
  “If you're not doing one on ones, you can do coaching. You'll be much, much better with with O3s. And frankly, if you're doing zero 3s, you're more likely to do coaching, right? So do O3s.” (Kate, 14:23)
• On Business vs. Real-World Coaching:
  “In the real world, coaches are wonderful. They're revered. They're lovely, lovely people... But in the business world, being coached has an air of failure, desperation, final steps before termination, possibly termination. Why is that?” (Mike, 21:25)
• On Growth Through Discomfort:
  “Growth experiences have pain points… Growth requires discomfort. Right. It's less comfortable to be growing. We hate that coaching has a negative professional connotation. It's stupid. It's wrong.” (Mike, 25:42)
• Personal Reflection:
  “At the time, I didn’t particularly like [my coach]. … And I can tell you right now that she was by far the best manager I ever had. By far. Literally turned my career around.” (Kate, 24:48)
• Challenge to Listeners:
  “We need to start telling everybody and everybody who works for us, I'm going to coach you. I'm going to help you improve. It's not negotiable. And coaching is positive. It's part of improving productivity. It makes us better. I'm responsible for it with you. Here we go.” (Mike, 25:42)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Why effective managers insist on development – 01:04-01:42
• Why coaching is rarely used in the Trinity – 01:42-03:40
• Clarifying what “coaching” really means in business – 04:30-05:09
• The seven points/steps of the updated coaching model – 05:15-06:05
• Coaching’s impact for both high and low performers – 08:22-10:26
• Strategic value: always start with top performers – 12:47-13:18
• Why one-on-ones are a prerequisite for great coaching – 14:23
• The necessity of coaching in rapidly changing environments – 16:33-19:58
• Confronting coaching’s bad reputation – 21:08-23:16
• Personal stories about being coached – 22:03-25:42
• Reframing coaching as positive and non-negotiable – 25:42-26:30

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Conclusion

This episode reframes coaching as a vital, positive, and inclusive developmental tool for all employees, not just a remedial measure for those struggling. The hosts challenge listeners to dispel the negative connotations and begin to see coaching similarly to its positive role in sports and the arts. Part 1 sets the stage for the more detailed mechanics of the Manager Tools Coaching Model, which will be covered in subsequent episodes.

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Transcript

[Mike]

Welcome to Manager Tools.

[Kate]

This is Kate and this is Mike.

[Mike]

Today's Manager Tools Coaching Model Updated Part.

[Kate]

1 of 3 this cast answers these how do I coach my directs? What do I do when feedback is not enough? How can I help save an employee who is failing? Well, if you want answers to these questions and more, keep listening.

[Maggie]

Well folks, here we are. The summer is officially underway. Don't forget in the heat of the summer to plan your group's training needs for the next 90 days. The fall is well within reach. Manager Tools has some dates available for your group in August and September, but it's best to reach out as soon as possible and contact Maggie to learn more about open dates and how we might be able to customize the training to optimize your team's learning experience. So send Maggie an [e-mail] to learn more information.

[Kate]

Today we're going to talk about the Managed Tools coaching model. And you and I know, and most people listening here today should know highly effective managers are not indifferent about development. Right? That's one of the characteristics of great managers is they're not only indifferent, they demand it, they expect it, they not only encourage it, they reward it and they provide disincentives to those who don't make strong efforts at it. And so if you want to be a top performing manager, improve the productivity of your team by expecting higher performance from each of its members and coach them to achieve it.

[Mike]

Another interesting thing I think about the this model is one of the really common themes that we see in satisfaction reviews and like surveys and things like that that companies do is that people want room for growth. That's what they're looking for as employees, as people in the organization. They see the organization as responsible I think for providing them that. And this will absolutely support that people wanting to grow. Of the Trinity, which as I always laugh about, there's four parts but this third part, coaching. Of this whole suite of tools Trinity parts, the coaching model is the least often used tool. It's the one that gets the least play honestly. And there are some good reasons for that. One on ones are the most powerful. Once managers start one on ones they never really want to let them go. We find them so useful and feedback happens next. It's hard though. A lot of people don't transition into it. The behavioral change feels a great deal higher because one on ones in terms of your behavioral change to most managers really just feel like another meeting and we know how to go to meetings so that behavioral shift is A little bit easier. I think worse, feedback is harder. We don't want to introduce conflict. We fear that people will quit if we talk to them about what they're not doing.

[Kate]

Well, which of course is not true. There's a recent survey, I think it was on the Wall Street Journal even talking about Gen Z or whoever the youngest professionals are today, I lose track of that. Even they, despite what we may think about them, they crave feedback. And the problem is they just like to get it in a professional manner, which is what the manager tools feedback model is all about. So surprise, surprise, shocking.

[Mike]

If you've been listening recently, you'll know we just re released and updated that content as well. And this is the coaching version of those updates. If you can't get through feedback though, in the trinity in the process, it's unlikely you're going to end up coaching because feedback takes just a few seconds every day, whereas coaching is longer term. It takes months for some coaching engagements to be completed. It takes a really dedicated manager to engage in coaching. And there's some other reasons people don't always get to coaching. Right. The first is that nobody knows how to do it. A lot of people talk about coaching. They all seem to mean different things. Coaching. The word coaching, I think has a lot of professional synonyms that mean a lot of different things, which is weird because very few of them are actually coaching. But that's okay.

[Kate]

Yeah. And they think about coaching as somehow negative, right? Negative feedback. Coaching.

[Mike]

Right. They think of pointing out mistakes and then hoping the person and helping them fix it, or hoping they fix it. Something like that. And okay. The only time managers are exposed to something really resembling coaching often is performance improvement plans trying to save people from getting fired, which we call late stage coaching. The thing is, it gives coaching overall a bad reputation as not a positively focused tool. And the good news is you can coach all of your directs, you can coach even your best performers. In fact, you should. And we're going to talk about how, right?

[Kate]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike]

We got seven steps or seven parts to this content.

[Kate]

Number one, the purpose of coaching is encouraging improved effectiveness. And we're going to talk more about the encouragement piece of it, which is absolutely key. Same for feedback, by the way. Two, coaching is necessary for today's discontinuous business environment. Like you can't get away without coaching today. And we'll talk about why that is. Number three, coaching has a terrible reputation. It's a shame, but let's acknowledge it and talk about what we're going to do about It. And then we're going to talk about the steps of the model. Step one, collaborate to set a goal. Step two, collaborate to brainstorm resources. Step three, collaborate to create a plan. And then step four, slightly different. No collaborate there. The direct acts and reports on the plan. That's what we're going to talk about today.

[Mike]

Okay. The purpose of coaching, encouragement, encouraging effectiveness, Improved effectiveness over time. This third pillar of the manager tools effective manager trinity. We've seen lots of effective managers and executives. And what we know is that the vast majority of the best ones out there do three things well. They have great relationship with their directs, they communicate regularly about performance, and they consistently ask for notably increased performance. Constantly reaching.

[Kate]

Yeah. And folks, we said this many times before, they don't all do one on ones the manage tools way. They don't do manage tools feedback. They don't do coaching, but they achieve the things we talk about in a manage tools trinity. They just do it a different way.

[Mike]

Mm. Though I would suggest probably a lot of it's close to what we suggest.

[Kate]

Probably pretty close. Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. And some people are just gifted in that way or they've been taught a different way that works. Not all managers have. Not all managers are gifted in that way. Not all managers have been given the gift of a mentor or someone who taught them ways to accomplish these extra things. So we teach one on ones because they're teachable and effective in developing strong relationships. We teach the manager tools feedback model because it is a teachable and effective way to talk about daily performance. We teach this coaching model because it's a teachable and effective way to ask our directs to do more, over and over again, constantly asking for more stretching. So if you're looking for stretch goals, this is one way to help accomplish them.

[Kate]

If you're already doing this, you're already coaching and it's effective and it works, then, hey, keep on doing it. But if you're not like the vast majority of managers out there, then here's one way to do it. And we'd suggest that you give it a try because it works. Okay? There's other ways it work. This is the one we teach. This is the one we know we can teach. And we have lots of evidence, lots of numeric evidence, high Cs. We have lots of evidence that suggest it works if you follow the steps. So just follow along.

[Mike]

Mm. So highly effective managers that we've seen, they really tend to approach coaching or the general act of developing their directs in a way that's different in tone from Most managers, often there are managers who are taking a more relaxed approach than what we've seen work. The average manager kind of says, I'm too busy to spend a lot of time coaching, so I won't do it other than when one of my top people need a boost or one of my weaker performers needs to get above the minimums. So just kind of for the two ends of the spectrum, is it being done for a lot of people? Because most managers feel really busy, they don't really think of it as valuable, or they really simply. They don't think their directs have time for it either, which is something I hear a lot about when I talk to people about delegation. People say things like, oh, my directs are so busy, I couldn't possibly ask of them more. But unfortunately for a lot of us, most managers are wrong. Right? We're focusing on the top and bottom for different reasons. And to be frank, we're not even sure that those reasons are right either reason. And so in that way, you're right because the reasons you have for focusing on these ends of the spectrum are both wrong, which is not good.

[Kate]

And don't feel badly. We've done it as well. I mean, a lot of what you get in manage tools and career tools and executive tools is because we've done the things that are not effective and we've learned. And we don't want you to have to go through that yourself. So we share our experiences with you. So many of us coach our top performers because either a, we want them to do well and we want them to get promoted because we think they're great or because they're good. They demand that we coach them because they know it's important to do them. So we have to do something developmental for them, otherwise we're going to fear losing them. Now, it's too bad we think that coaching is sending them to a class somewhere. That's not what we think. We'll share more about that.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah, that's actually happened to me. Although I will say, as a resource for brainstorming, online classes can be a really big resource when you're brainstorming resources. So keep that in mind for your brainstorming sessions. Often when we're thinking about this other end of the spectrum for poor performers, we coach because we're told we have to, either by your senior boss or by hr, because the adage the squeaky wheel gets the grease is true for a reason. It rings true for a reason. And we think that if, hey, we get this weak performer above the line, we will look better relatively.

[Kate]

Yeah. How would you like to hear, like, hey, that Kate's a pretty good manager. She doesn't have anybody performing below par. She must be good. That wouldn't excite you, I bet.

[Mike]

Talk about a low standard.

[Kate]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike]

That'd be such a bummer. I would not like it.

[Kate]

Yeah, don't shoot for that, folks. No, it's not a good standard.

[Mike]

No. I was talking this morning to a group about don't lower your standard. I would never suggest you lower your standard, but consider lowering the bar. And we're talking specifically about positive feedback. Lower lowering the bar for what you consider worthy of positive feedback. Right, True. And in this case, we have high standards, and we would never recommend that you lower them. That's not something we're gonna say that you should do. Of course, it's not accurate either to think, hey, you look better relatively if everybody's above the line. Right. It's utterly false unless every single manager other than me, the person who. Who has nobody below the line, has multiple failing performers. And that's not accurate in most cases. Most teams, the majority of their team is above the line. In fact, their whole team is above the line. And senior folks evaluating us can often be totally fine with somebody having a poor performer or a significantly underperforming direct as long as we have several really high performers. As long as you've got somebody holding that water, it's generally tolerated by senior executives that somebody's not doing as great. And this is really a function of managerial economics. Lesson number two. Spending time with top performers produces more value than weak performers, which gets into coaching as well. And who. Who you should focus on.

[Kate]

Kay just said spending time with top performers produces more value than weak performers. And that's right. We at Manager Tools recommend that after our core investment in other directs, which is through one on ones, our marginal choices about time with our directs be spent where we will have the most impact on their organization, and that is always with our top performers.

[Mike]

Every hour we spend with them will return more value, short term and long term, than an hour spent with a direct who's not performing well.

[Kate]

That is so different than what most managers think, or at least different how they behave. Right. So it's probably surprising, but note a key differential for us. We recommend that every manager spend time with each of their directs on a routine and regular basis through one on ones. And too many managers don't do that. So if we're not doing one on ones, then it's much easier to justify focusing on our weaker performers. And what O3s do is there's a regulating effect. Right. We're more likely to put out fires or manage by exception to reduce our risk rather than increase value. So just keep in mind we cover one on ones in the trinity first because it is so foundational to everything. So if you're not doing one on ones, you can do coaching. You'll be much, much better with with O3s. And frankly, if you're doing zero 3s, you're more likely to do coaching, right? So do O3s.

[Mike]

Yeah. And the reason you're likely to engage with coaching if you're doing one on ones is because you can see where your directs are. You know what they want, you know who's ready to move on. And if you're a really effective manager, you're not indifferent to their development. Especially people who are top performers. They want to stretch, they want to move, they always want to get better. They demand it and expect development. They encourage it themselves. But highly effective managers reward development. They provide disincentives to those who don't make strong efforts at it. Really effective managers know that if everybody is developing, results will improve and the organization will grow. And both of those outcomes are better for the manager, as you know, in terms of their own considerations as an individual and as well for the health and wellness of the organization, it's a positive for the results of your team to increase and improve. And for those reasons, if you want to be a top performing manager, improve the productivity of your team by expecting higher performance from each of its members. And we do that by coaching them to achieve it.

[Kate]

There you go.

[Maggie]

If you're out there and you're thinking to yourself, you know what? I'd really like to have better results and retain the people on my team working, we don't blame you. And also we can help. In just two short weeks, starting on July 15, we will be kicking off a virtual cohort of our Effective manager conference for four days in a row. We'll be hosting on July 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th our manager tool sessions on one on ones feedback, coaching and delegation. These sessions range in length from 1 and a half to 2 and a half hours and you'll receive a video recording afterward for 90 days so you can catch up on anything missed and get a recap for yourself if there's something that you want to be reminded of. So you can join us online by [e-mail] forward/training. Find the virtual Effective Manager conference there and we look forward to seeing you.

[Kate]

Our next point is, look, you have no choice today folks. If you want to be effective in today's discontinuous business environment, you have to coach. Right. There's just too much going on to not do coaching for the day to day fluctuations that happen in the world around us, the ongoing complexity we live in. Feedback is the performance communication tool that gets us there. Right. That's the core piece. The path we're on day to day though is on paper, quite straight. But as we all know, our path to success is never the plan. Planning is everything. But plans are nothing, Right? Nothing is straight line. Even quantum mechanics teach us that straight lines aren't even straight lines.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Since I have. My co host here is a rocket scientist, literally, not figuratively. I'm sure she understands that for sure.

[Mike]

Well, and the good news is for me that rockets don't go in straight lines anyway. So you're constantly.

[Kate]

Oh, there you go. So probably the analogy is not. Plants are not straight line. They're probably more like rockets. Right. Require constant inputs, constant feedback. They probably get feedback. Kind of like a feedback model. Right. You're a little off course. You need to do this. Right. That kind of thing. Yeah.

[Mike]

Although we don't recommend you spin around in circles, which is how rockets fix that problem.

[Kate]

There you go. I feel like it sometimes. Okay. Anyways.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Kate]

For the day to day changes, the inevitable human errors for the right intentions gone awry, for evolutionary changes we need when it comes to performance communication, performance improvement, feedback is what we recommend for managers.

[Mike]

Yeah. And the day to day doesn't address the bigger picture of the flattening world. It doesn't address game changing ideas like securitized mortgages or iPhones or cell phones at all. Or the Internet or email or dare we say it, AI. Small changes don't help. The owner of a Taco Bell in Missouri who wonders why sales are falling relative to their McDonald's competitor not realizing the McDonald's orders are being taken by phone in Colorado, 800 miles away. Right. You don't get in small daily steps from daily postal service to FedEx overnight delivery. You don't get in a few small steps from calling an airline to booking online through Expedia. You don't get with one person gradually getting better at D2B from cobalt to be good enough to. To address the impact of offshoring engineering programs and transoceanic fiber optics, or the outsourcing of code development, to say nothing of round the clock development teams. Big ideas, big changes. They don't come from small daily iterations. And if all of these things have already happened, how really can we stick with just evolutionary growth through annual goals and daily feedback? We can't. If we want to succeed, big ideas require big leaps, bigger running jumps. And so we really want another technique, a longer term, bigger technique for learning and growth.

[Kate]

Yeah. And we joke that they make movies about volcanoes. Right? It's really the boring shifting of tectonics, plates that make for mountains and oceans of our world. But volcano, right? Small stuff. It's the stuff that happens incrementally, you know, measured in less than an inch a year kind of thing. But volcanoes are dramatic, right? Tectonic plates are boring. We've said this a million times, probably. Good management is boring. It's unsexy, it's unpretty, it's routine, it's undramatic. So you don't see a lot of movies about good management out there because it's boring. Yeah, but that is all true. And there are volcanoes, right?

[Mike]

Yeah. So we need to manage your own behavior to address the dramatic moments where suddenly a 2% improvement this year will not be enough. Maybe we need to ask for 5, 10, 15% more. And we need to do so all the time as insurance against competitors. And the way an effective manager asks for more is to coach her, directs. Yeah, that's how she does it.

[Kate]

Exactly.

[Mike]

And unfortunately, there's a problem.

[Kate]

There's a problem. Right. And probably some of you listening are experiencing it as well, which is coaching has a terrible reputation. It's awful, it's a shame. But it does exist. That reputation does exist. So we need to acknowledge that.

[Mike]

Yeah. This is our final introductory point. But a lot of people, professional and not, have a really wrong and slightly damaging sense of coaching. A view that the business world has created and nurtured. For example, why was it that in grade school, secondary school, college, high school, all of these places, being coached means being taught better ways by someone knowledgeable. But in the business world, being coached has an air of failure, desperation, final steps before termination, possibly termination. Why is that?

[Kate]

Yeah, it's, you know, for most employees, if their manager comes up to them and says, hey, Mike, you have a problem with your relationships with people? I want to coach you, I want to coach you on how to get better at that. I'm not likely. I use my name for a reason and I'm not likely to respond to that terribly. Well, matter of fact, I share that because that did happen to me, Right. I did not respond well for two weeks. And then eventually I said, oh, I think she's right. I think she's right. Maybe I ought to do that. And the word is coaching. Because coaching sounds like I'm getting ready to get terminated, Right? This is not a voluntary thing for me to do. I either engage in this or I won't be around. And look at we. We collectively, managers are responsible for this. All of us when we say, I guess I'll have to coach this guy before I get rid of him. Or at least that's what HR says. Somehow, coaching has gotten reputation as the last act of managers necessitated to reduce legal risk before termination. No employee's excited to participate in that. Yeah.

[Mike]

And we. We actually know somebody who works at a Walmart who came in late one day and she. And was asked to come in the next day for coaching air quotes, which is to say she was called in, and the next day they gave her extra work as punishment. And she had designed a form about being part of a team. Okay, cool. That's her experience. Pretty negative. Imagine, though, you're this young lady, you get a new boss, an effective manager, and they say, hey, you're doing well. I want to coach you. That would be confusing. There's so many instances of it being negative and the same thing with feedback, right? There's so many instances of it being negative that overall it has a professional connotation, not a real world connotation. In the real world, coaches are wonderful. They're revered. They're lovely, lovely people. I don't know if anybody else watched Cheer on Netflix, which is about a Texas high school cheerleading team and their attempt to make it to the finals and win and all this stuff. And the main person on the show is the coach. And it's a wonderful show about coaching and trust and all these different things. And Monica, whose last name escapes me, is this woman. They all adore her. She's tough. Full disclosure, she's tough. Don't go in there expecting marshmallows. And it's a wonderful story about teaching people, helping them grow, pushing people, and it's a positive thing. She's the hero of this story.

[Kate]

So not surprising, right?

[Mike]

No, exactly. And if you watch it, you're like, oh, my gosh, of course we love Monica.

[Kate]

Of course.

[Mike]

Why wouldn't we love her? Of course.

[Kate]

All the best coaches. All the best. This is the best boss, in my experience, the best bosses. And I described this story about this coaching, about relationships. I'll tell you what, at the time, I didn't particularly like. I didn't like her before that. I didn't particularly like her after that. And I can tell you right now that she was by far the best manager I ever had. By far. Literally turned my career around. No, my career is going well, but got me to the point where I could make it to the next level. And if she hadn't, I wouldn't be where I am today. So tough folks who make us better and the vast majority of us want to be better, want to succeed. They're the ones that when you're sitting late in your career, those are the ones you look back on and go like, man, she was great.

[Mike]

Yes. And look, I understand it's hard for people to. Sometimes it's hard to go through being coached because it's a growth experience. And growth experiences have pain points. So I completely understand. Maybe going through it is like, as you're actually going through it, it's not ideal you. And that's just because growth takes energy. Growth requires discomfort. Right. It's less comfortable to be growing. We hate that coaching has a negative professional connotation. It's stupid. It's wrong. And we need to start telling everybody and everybody who works for us, I'm going to coach you. I'm going to help you improve. It's not negotiable. And coaching is positive. It's part of improving productivity. It makes us better. I'm responsible for it with you. Here we go. That's all today, y'.

[Maggie]

All.

[Mike]

We'll see you back here next week with a continuation of this topic.