Podcast Summary: Manager Tools

Episode: Why Does HR Make It So Hard To Fire People? - Part 1
Date: February 16, 2026
Hosts: Sarah (B), Mark (C)

Overview

This episode confronts a common managerial complaint: why HR seems to make it so hard to fire employees, especially for poor performance. Far from attacking HR, the hosts break down the real reasons why these processes exist, argue that HR is (usually) right, and challenge managers to reflect on their own practices and responsibilities. The discussion centers on US-centric processes but acknowledges global variations, and stresses behavioral, objective standards for termination.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Reputation of HR and Managerial Responsibility

• HR’s Bad Rap: Mark and Sarah open with a candid discussion about HR’s “bad reputation” among managers, especially around termination processes.
  • “Over the years, HR has gotten its share of critiques… But when it comes to firing, HR has always, always been right.” (Mark, 01:19)
• Shift in Perspective: The hosts admit that Manager Tools previously fostered negative attitudes toward HR but have since nuanced their stance.
  • “We don’t hate HR. We love good HR and we hate bad HR. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of bad HR. But we also think managers have a responsibility to rebuild the relationship with HR.” (Mark, 03:13)

Episode Structure and Scope

• Three-Part Outline (03:48):
  1. Caveats (contextual and geographic commercial differences)
  2. Why HR is Right to Say No
  3. Preview of the Right Way to Fire Someone (to be continued)
• Scope: The episode strictly covers firing for poor performance, not for gross misconduct or ethical breaches, which are handled differently by HR and law.
  • “We're talking only today about terminations for failed work performance.” (Sarah, 07:49)

Geocommercial Differences in Firing Employees

• “Geocommercial” Explained: Mark defines this neologism as commercial regulations varying by geography—employment laws differ globally, especially between the US and Europe.
  • “Geocommercial… commercial operations…are different based on geography…their relative commercial approaches become similar as a function of cultural adaptation.” (Mark, 05:00)
• International Examples:
  • In some European countries, even if a manager follows all process guidance, legal and union structures can make firing almost impossible or extremely expensive (up to hundreds of thousands in separation costs). (Mark, 08:32; Sarah, 10:05)
  • The US is recognized as less regulated, with more dynamic hiring and firing processes.
  • The solution in such restrictive jurisdictions: raise hiring standards drastically to avoid poor fits, as getting rid of them later is often impossible.

The Link Between Hiring and Firing

• Effort Parity Principle:
  • “The amount of difficulty that you must go through as a manager to fire someone ought to be at least equivalent to the amount of effort exerted in your interviewing process.” (Sarah, 14:06)
  • Example: Mark recounts 50+ hours spent interviewing his own assistant due to the responsibilities of the role. (Mark, 15:13)
• Executives Exempt: The termination standards discussed don’t apply to executive or C-suite roles, which often have different (or no) requirements for dismissal. (Sarah, 16:38; Mark, 17:06)

Why HR Says "No": A Defense

• Managerial Incompetence is the Real Issue:
  • “The bad rap that HR gets for refusing to terminate employees is caused by managerial incompetence.” (Mark, 17:53)
  • Managers often fail to do the proper groundwork leading up to a termination; HR is protecting both the company and the employee from bad decisions.
• Firing Requires Two Failures:
  • “The employee must have failed to do their job and the manager must have done her job.” (Sarah, 19:09)
• High Standard Required:
  • Firing has significant impact on an employee’s livelihood; it should not be taken lightly or done on a whim or based on a manager’s mood.

Behavioral Standards & Documentation

• Firing Should Be About Behavior, Not Feelings:
  • Poor performers should be measured by clear, communicated behavioral standards—quality, quantity, timeliness, accuracy, documentation, relationships, and safety.
  • “The key to their success or the reasons...for that individual's failure is always behavioral. Not impression based.” (Sarah, 23:03)
  • “Without that communication, without clarity, how you feel becomes how you feel…I think which is a vulgar standard.” (Mark, 23:34)
• HR’s Gatekeeping as Safeguard:
  • “I’m sorry, your bad mood oughtn’t result in this person losing their ability to pay their mortgage. That is ridiculous.” (Sarah, 23:49)
• Managers Must Build a Factual, Behavioral Case:
  • “We must have behavioral examples for [HR] so that HR also can see why our feelings are valid.” (Sarah, 23:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “HR has always, always being right. The blame we place on them is wrong.” (Mark, 01:19)
• “We don’t hate HR. We love good HR and we hate bad HR.” (Mark, 03:13)
• Geocommercial Differences:
  • “Keeping the failed employee is a better solution than termination.” (Mark, 08:32)
• On Raising Hiring Standards:
  • “Every warm body has a halo…If you’re really just looking for a warm body, that warm body is gonna turn sour at some point and you can’t get rid of them.” (Mark, 12:03)
• Parallels Between Effort in Hiring and Firing:
  • “If it’s very, very hard [to fire], it should be very, very hard to hire them as well.” (Sarah, 14:44)
• Managerial Responsibility and HR’s Protection:
  • “The bad rap that HR gets for refusing to terminate employees is caused by managerial incompetence.” (Mark, 17:53)
• Behavioral Standards in Termination:
  • “It is the objective reality experienced by both parties, not the subjective reality experienced by you and you alone.” (Sarah, 23:03)
  • “Your bad mood oughtn’t result in this person losing their ability to pay their mortgage.” (Sarah, 23:49)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:19 – Why HR gets the blame (but shouldn’t)
• 03:13 – Evolving stance: loving good HR vs. bad HR
• 05:00 – "Geocommercial" differences explained
• 07:49 – Limiting the discussion to firing for poor performance
• 08:32 – International (European) examples: legal and union hurdles
• 12:03 – The importance of hiring standards in strict-firing environments
• 14:06 – Firing effort should match hiring effort
• 16:38 – Executive terminations are a special case
• 17:53 – Defense of HR: managerial incompetence is the real problem
• 19:09 – Two-way accountability: employee and manager responsibilities
• 23:03 – Why behavioral standards, not impressions, are key
• 23:49 – HR’s role as a safeguard against unfair firing

Conclusion

This episode flips the classic complaint about HR "making it hard" to fire employees, revealing that most delays result from insufficient managerial preparation and documentation—not HR roadblocks. The hosts stress that ethical, behavioral, and procedural rigor is essential before any termination and that these standards serve both the organization and its people. Ultimately, they challenge managers: if firing is hard, your hiring should be too, and HR is more ally than enemy in running a fair, effective workplace.

For the full framework on how to fire someone correctly, tune in to Part 2 of this discussion next week.