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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to Managing youg Practice. I'm your host, Stephen Demand. And today we're exploring how prospects find, evaluate and choose an advisor. If you're running or growing an advisory firm, I want you to consider a question. When a prospective client hears your name and searches for you online, or Maybe they ask ChatGPT to recommend an advisor for someone in their situation, what do they find? The first meeting increasingly happens before the advisor is even in the room. A prospect may get the referral, but then what do they do? They compare firms, they look for specialization, they might look at fees or search for other evidence of what's that client experience actually like. So today we're going to explore that critical practice management question. How do you become the advisor that the right prospect can find a understand and trust? My guest today is Brian Thorp, Founder and CEO and Editor in Chief of Wealth Tender. Before founding Wealth Tender, Brian spent nearly 22 years at Invesco, ultimately leading financial advisor platform relationships representing more than 100 billion in assets. Today his work sits at the intersection of consumer behavior, advisor marketing, online reviews, regulatory change, and AI powered search. Brian, welcome to the podcast.
- [01:21]
B
Much appreciated, Steven. It's an honor to be here.
- [01:23]
A
Yeah, well, we're actually in person, which is really cool here in the Austin Dimensional headquarters. And I get to see Brian sometimes when I'm walking on Saturday mornings downtown with my family and we run into each other. So it's great to have you here and you made a big leap from a career professional to an entrepreneur. So before we get into AI and testimonials, take, take us back to the moment when you first realized the way people find and evaluate advisors was shifting. What did you see?
- [01:54]
B
What we were really starting to see was the natural progression of consumers increasingly adopting the Internet, not only in other purchases and looking for services elsewhere, but also as they're exploring and researching financial advisors moving online as well. And of course, back in 2019 when we launched Wealth Tender, that was really all about the visibility in Google search because Google has always been that 800 pound gorilla. Now naturally we're going to talk about how that's changed and changed very rapidly. But as we were seeing that consumer behavior really shift to looking more online, even if people were looking for or receiving a referral from somebody in their network, a friend, a family member, a colleague, the next thing that they were doing was then going online to research that advisor and other advisors whose names they may have received. So those were really the early genesis, if you will, of what we were starting to see. Back then. And of course I'm excited to talk more about all the different things that we're seeing today as the world continues to evolve rapidly in this area.
- [02:55]
A
When you first launched Wealth Tender, was there anything that turned out to be different than you expected or what lessons did you learn there?
- [03:04]
B
There have been a lot of lessons learned along the way, but ultimately the vision that I really saw for Wealth Tender and what it's become today has largely played out. And what I mean by that, when we were really developing and designing Wealth Tender, I was looking at other trust based professions, doctors, lawyers, where similar platforms to what Wealth Tender is today have existed for a decade or a couple of decades even. And specifically those would be platforms like Avvo.com for consumers looking to hire an attorney or more familiar to many people, zocdoc helping consumers find and evaluate physicians based on location, specialization and being able to read their online reviews. And that simply wasn't possible in our space until the SEC Marketing Rule came around. And happy to explore that a little bit deeper as well. But ultimately flash forward to today, nearly seven years later, and that vision for what I really believed Wealth Tender could become, essentially the ZOCDOC for financial advisors has largely played out.
- [04:07]
A
And so let's dive into that a little deeper. So SEC modernizes this marketing rule. What did you see about adoption? And maybe did it happen as quick as you expected or not as quick as you expected? What's the industry response taught you about the psychology of change?
- [04:23]
B
Hurry up and wait. Perhaps not a surprise, having been in the industry as long as I have, first and foremost, it was December of 2019 when the SEC put forth its draft Marketing rule. And then of course, that took some time for the rule to become effective in May 2021. Then there was an 18 month transition period prior to which time firms had the opportunity to operate under the legacy rules. So short story, there was both a regulatory time period that took a little longer than what would occur in other professions and industries. And then Even once that 2022 date came around when firms had to abide by the SEC marketing rule, it still didn't prescribe that every advisor needed to get started with online reviews or take advantage of that as an opportunity. But ultimately, what we've seen now are that our early adopters, the first movers that started to come aboard. And now today, nearly five years after the Marketing Rule took effect, we're now seeing more of the mass adoption of online reviews by many large RIAs and wealth management firms and starting to see that real Acceleration.
- [05:31]
A
Do you think the inertia. Is it mainly compliance fear? Is it just habit, you know, or maybe operational friction or just maybe even fear of asking clients for feedback? Sometimes we run into that with our global investor study. Sometimes advisors are a little worried about asking for feedback. What do you attribute the fear sometimes to?
- [05:54]
B
I think we see a lot of what you've seen here at Dimensional in the first couple of years since the SEC marketing rule became effective for sure, the biggest impediment was compliance. Compliance teams that understandably needed to ensure they were buttoned up with everything that they needed to put in place to ensure compliance with the marketing rule. And as they started to think about adopting a policy for testimonials and online reviews, that wasn't necessarily the priority and many firms didn't necessarily want to be first from a compliance perspective. Flash forward to today. It's really not the compliance concern that we see. The compliance teams now understand there are platforms like Wealth Tender that provide easy ability to comply with the SEC marketing rule requirements. But now to your point, it's a little bit more of inertia as well as imposter syndrome with advisors a little bit nervous. What if I get a negative review? What if my clients don't respond? And of course today we've helped more than 400 firms collect more than 6,000 reviews, all of which 99 plus percent are five star reviews. People love their advisors and I know you've seen that in the Dimensional study as well. But for sure it's getting over the hump to put that invitation out there to your clients to invite them to provide feedback about their experience.
- [07:10]
A
That's great. But before we get to those, I want to talk about just the journey of a prospective client. I think you make the argument that that's not sufficient anymore.
- [07:21]
B
Along those lines, it continues to be an incredible source of organic growth for firms and advisors doing a terrific job. Whose clients are out there referring. However, what many advisors and firms don't ever recognize or experience are the prospects who never reach out after receiving that referral. And specifically through a research study that we conducted last fall and consistent with research that we've and other trust based professions, again attorneys and physicians. What the research showed is that after being referred to a financial advisor, 83% of those potential prospects, the very first thing they do is go online because they want to see what other people have to say about that advisor. Essentially a trust but verify mindset. And that's understandable. A referral is one person's opinion and people want to see. Do other people feel the very same way?
- [08:19]
A
Yeah, I am a serial referrer of things. I'm a level 7 Google guide. I'm very close to level 8, which is nearly impossible to get if you've ever left a Google review. I'm not allowed to leave reviews for advisors. The reason that motivates me to leave reviews is I want people to know, hey, here was a good experience I had and here are some things I hope you know going into before you go to this barbecue restaurant, you know where to sit or what to order. Tell me a little bit about when they're making these decisions to do this. What types of things are people looking for when they're doing research online about their advisor or prospective advisor?
- [08:54]
B
Well, a couple of things on that front. You know, one, naturally a number of people, if they do get that referral, you know, they are looking for reviews, they want to see what other people have to say about the experience. But also, is this advisor a good fit to work with somebody like me? Do I have particular circumstances in my life or in the life of our family that requires a specialist advisor? Maybe we have a family with special needs. Or if I'm a technology professional with equity comp and looking for an advisor that can assist in that area. Or perhaps I'm a business owner and thinking not only about the personal finances for my household but but also for the business and what succession planning or exit planning might look like. So that research today, and especially as we move into a world of AI search tools, people are no longer just searching financial advisor near me. They're really saying I want to find a financial advisor for me. And they're putting in a lot of great details about themselves, about the nature of the type of advisor that would be a good fit for them. And even if they're not putting in all of those details at the outset, a tool like ChatGPT or Gemini is engaging with that consumer and asking follow up questions to essentially build a deeper dive prompt to help that individual or the head of household that is looking to evaluate who they may want to hire to truly find that advisor who could be a best fit on any number of factors that could include age, location, areas of specialization that are important to that individual or couple.
- [10:28]
A
One of the things that we see in the dimensional investor study is there's a referral gap. The number of clients that are satisfied on the net promoter score is very high. Advisors do a great job building the relationship. But then when that translates to the actual referrals that come through and then how many of those end up becoming clients? For every hundred households, it ends up being around five clients that are ultimately become new clients from that referral process. So there's a big gap there. And I think what's happening is this silent elimination of an advisor without ever telling the firm why. What do you attribute some of those reasons to?
- [11:08]
B
As a prospect, a consumer who maybe receives a referral to an advisor, it should not be assumed that they're only being referred to one advisor. There's a very strong likelihood that somebody who is engaging with their peers, with family, with friends, around this very topic is hearing a number of different opinions as well as a number of different names. And as that prospect then goes online and starts entering the names of those multiple advisors, it's going to be the ones that have that stronger online reputation, stronger presence. And again today, with fewer than 10% of advisors utilizing online reviews and testimonials in their marketing activities, imagine that Prospect now finding one advisor with reviews, and if they were referred to 10, the other nine don't have them. Guess which advisor is going to be much more likely to get that first call and in a terrific position to convert that prospect into a client.
- [12:04]
A
It's that voice of the client and digital trust there. I mentioned in the global investor study where advisors can get feedback from their clients, we see that promoters, the people who are likely to refer, really value to a higher degree experience with people like me and then the way they value the advisor is sense of security and peace of mind. Is the advisor giving me sense of security and peace of mind? It's not fees, it's not investment returns. How do you approach that? Is that what you see in your data and your research and give us some background and context on what you're seeing there?
- [12:38]
B
Sure, it's been fun to see not only the dimensional investor survey that's been around for a much longer period of time, but beginning last year we conducted a research study effectively analyzing the thousands of reviews that had come through Wealth Tender and identified, not surprisingly that to your point, the majority of time when people are writing a review about their advisors, it's about how their advisor makes them feel. It's about the emotional side of the relationship. So by definition, if somebody is a client of an advisor, they expect that the investment returns will be there. They understand that this is an expert in asset allocation and. But ultimately it's that experience that exists in some cases for longer than a decade, which we love reading about and reviews as well. Just the impact that the advisor has had in the lives of their clients is really what shines through.
- [13:33]
A
That's such a good point. One of my favorite parts of my job is when we're conducting the investor study and I print out all the open ended responses and I'll sit and read what people are saying about the impact that the advisors had on their life, on their family's life. And, and it gives me goosebumps, like, I mean, really makes me connected to the impact that advisors are having out there. And it's very, very rarely is it someone who's focused on what the basis points are comparing an advisor to how the S and P did. It's almost always the story of the impact they made on their lives and their families. And so it's a really powerful thing to read and see. An advisor does get a constructive review. How should they approach that? And you know, sometimes if, if I'm looking and I see all five stars, sometimes I'm a little like, oh, is this, is this real or not? So how should an advisor approach that?
- [14:28]
B
Well, what we've seen to date with more than 6,000 reviews, over 99% are five stars, which is not a surprise. These are solicited reviews. And as we've seen, clients love their advisors. There is of course, that very rare exception where a negative review may come through and not even so much negative, you know the word constructive because in many instances that individual is a client and they're simply looking to have their voice heard. Now I do think it's important to keep in mind if advisors are not proactively soliciting reviews, which will be 99% 5 stars. There's always an outlet for the Stephen demands of the world that are going out to Google, that are going out to Yelp and writing reviews, and in many instances, those are people that are looking for an outlet to vent. So if advisors are not proactively soliciting reviews, it's very likely the only reviews they potentially could get are going to likely be negative reviews. Now again, what is thrilling to see for our profession is the nature of the relationship with clients and their advisors. Generally, clients are very satisfied. And unlike doctors and lawyers, also professions that are largely based on trust, doctors and lawyers are more transactional. And what I mean by that, you have an experience in a waiting room that takes two hours or you're unhappy with a surgery that didn't go as expected. It may not be the fault of the professional, but an online review is a great way to take out a little bit of negativity and Vent or an attorney that represents you in a case, there may be a binary outcome, it doesn't go your way, but they did their best in an online review case could be more negative in that regard. With financial advisors, the nature of the relationship is typically a year, multiple years, if not a decade or longer. And that provides that opportunity for this to not be a transactional relationship, which again, I believe really contributes to the 99% plus five star reviews that we see for advisors.
- [16:28]
A
Yeah, great point. And I'd love to go a little bit deeper down the compliance reality, because kind of separates the just random Google review post that you mentioned. So maybe in plain English, what changed under the SEC marketing rule? What didn't change?
- [16:46]
B
Right. So prior to the SEC marketing rule taking effect in 2021, the SEC had prohibited advisors from proactively soliciting testimonials or publishing online reviews. Now, prior to that date, there again has never been a prohibition on consumers retaining that ability to go online and write reviews unsolicited. But advisors really did not have that ability to then take that information and incorporate it into their marketing activities. So flash forward through the SEC marketing rule. And to the SEC's credit, the catalyst for the marketing rule as it pertains to testimonials and online reviews was not to help financial advisors become better marketers. It was in recognition that consumers utilize online reviews in almost every decision that they're making. And so kudos to the SEC for acknowledging the way that consumer behavior has changed and providing a rule that in my opinion, is pretty easy to follow. And with a platform like Wealth Tender, you know, providing the guardrails, the belts and suspenders approach to ensure that from a compliance perspective, you have all of the tools and resources to take advantage of this compliantly. To the SEC's credit, every review that is published and promoted does need to have disclosures to primarily indicate whether or not the individual that wrote the review is a current client of the firm. If they were compensated to write the review, and if there are any conflicts of interest, and of course there's prohibited language, you can't have a testimonial that addresses, they doubled our money in the last year. But with those constraints in place, and importantly, because it's extraordinarily rare that clients are writing about those topics because again, they're typically talking about the emotional side of the relationship. So you're not triggering compliance concerns in the vast majority of reviews. It's really provided for the firms that are taking advantage of the opportunity today. A tremendous way to now essentially be on par with other professions, other industries where those online reviews can be so impactful in their marketing activities and again makes such a difference in the experience for prospects as they're evaluating advisors.
- [18:59]
A
Are there additional state or broker dealer rules that apply here as well? Is that something that advisors should be thinking about?
- [19:06]
B
So with regard to the SEC marketing rule specifically applies to federally registered RIAs, the states, specifically state registered investment advisors, weren't necessarily able to operate under the SEC marketing rule at the outset, depending upon the nature of the ways that state regulators had their own rules written in effect. Since the SEC marketing rule went into effect, we're now close to around 40 states that have modernized their rules as well to largely align, if not mirror, the SEC marketing rule. And part of that is thanks to Nassau. So the North American Securities Administrators association that is doing a really nice job of advocating on behalf of ultimately consumers and encouraging the remaining holdout states to get their ducks in a row. And that's created a little more pressure along with a model rule that Nassau recently published that should provide those remaining states with no excuse to modernize the rules here and permit advisors to be able to utilize testimonials soon. Now, with regard to FINRA for registered representatives of broker dealers, what's interesting is FINRA actually had a testimonial rule available prior to the SEC marketing rule taking effect. So it was possible that as a registered representative of a broker dealer to collect and publish testimonials. However, we really just didn't see any significant adoption of that for the very reason that many registered representatives also have an RIA affiliation, not to mention a lot of the registered representatives of larger broker dealers, perhaps some wirehouses that might be known to be a little more stringent on their rules. And flexibility for advisors to take to take advantage of certain potential marketing benefits might not be there yet either.
- [20:56]
A
And since the rule changed, the SEC had a risk alert in December of 2025. Here explain that and talk about how when they looked at the most common testimonial or endorsement problem was actually that failure to disclose some of those disclosures that they're supposed to include on that front.
- [21:14]
B
And even this week we saw another risk alert emerge that on both the December risk alert and the one yesterday, which was a little bit more around fee disclosures. It's all about transparency. Ultimately, of course, it's transparency as to what the SEC expects firms convey. But in the case of the SEC marketing rule, in the case of testimonials and online reviews, it's the very things that we mentioned and acknowledged in terms of the very simple and straightforward disclosures that the SEC expects to accompany every online review. So was this review written by a client or not? Were they compensated to write the review? Any conflicts of interest and somewhat related, the SEC was also chiming in on third party ratings. So awards or recognition that advisors and wealth management firms have perhaps a logo on their website that indicates we're an XYZ award winner without any disclosures as to the timeframe or the methodology underlying that particular rating or award, or awards that maybe were 15 years old and haven't been updated and perhaps are considered to no longer have a viable shelf life. So ultimately it really comes back to the transparency. In other words, the SEC has said, here are the rules. We expect that you provide the appropriate disclosures and that you follow the rules. And as long as you are promoting and publishing third party ratings and online reviews and testimonials in a compliant manner with the applicable disclosures that we expect consumers to be able to see in a very clear and transparent manner, then you should be in good shape.
- [22:52]
A
Building on that, tell us about the testimonial dress rehearsal and why it's important to use a mock review first and give us the operational workflow for an advisor listening out there.
- [23:04]
B
Sure. So with regard to a dress rehearsal, one of the things in a playbook that we make available to any advisor that may be interested are the step by step guides to get started with testimonials and online reviews. Regardless if you choose to do it on your own or utilize a platform like ours. What we really recommend is of course ensuring that you have your testimonials, policies and procedures buttoned up and then really playing it out. So that dress rehearsal concept to imagine now reviews coming in and perhaps even easier today that you could go out to ChatGPT or Gemini and say, hey, we're a wealth management firm preparing to get started with online reviews. Could you generate 20 mock reviews that we could anticipate receiving, including a mix of some that would not be problematic from an SEC marketing rule perspective and others that may have prohibited language or content that could be problematic, and then take those reviews and imagine them coming in just as if they were actual client reviews and using that opportunity through that dress rehearsal or mock exercise to run that through your policies and ensure that your compliance team has the ability to put their eyes on it. The approach that you take when you do see a review of that nature and ultimately providing that comfort level so there's fewer surprises if you do have reviews coming in from actual clients on what to expect or how to run those through the workflows that you put in place.
- [24:23]
A
That's great to know and it's really practical. One piece of pushback. When I've asked advisors, you know, have they considered requesting reviews? I've heard, well, I'm really hesitant, especially on Google reviews, if it states the full name of my client, I don't want competitors out there to know my minimums and then know, here's my whole client list. How do you address that concern?
- [24:44]
B
One of the things we've done with Wealth Tender is ensured that we obviously comply with the SEC Marketing rule, but also provide the ability for both clients as well as advisors to preserve their anonymity publicly if they're so inclined, because the SEC is totally comfortable with that. So we wanted to make sure that we could accommodate that as well. So to your point, reviews that come through Google typically do carry the full name of individuals because it's their Google account name, and therefore that flows through to a Google review. With Wealth Tender, as reviews are submitted, the individual submitting the review can choose whether to populate that with their full name, first name, last, initial. They can be fully anonymous publicly. On our platform, we do require that the consumer or the client submits their email address, which is only being shared back with the advisor, as a form of identification. So even if that review submitter chooses to be publicly anonymous, it's important that the advisor knows who that individual is in order to provide the appropriate compliance disclosures and for recordkeeping purposes. Now, on top of that, we also provide the ability for advisors and wealth management firms, even if the client puts their full name. If the advisor or the wealth management firm would prefer to override that, perhaps abbreviate initials, physician in Philadelphia, technology teacher or educator in Omaha, a number of different ways that you can then apply the naming conventions that work best for you.
- [26:17]
A
That's great. So the individual can choose whether or not how much they disclose of their name, or the individual advisor or firm can choose that as well too. Indeed, let's shift to this world of AI and AEO or sometimes geo. First, let's define these terms here, because Brian and I were catching up ahead of time and we were just talking about how it's still a little bit nebulous out there in terms of who's using what terms. Let's go with SEO, aeo, geo, what are we talking about here?
- [26:48]
B
It's great to start with SEO for a few reasons. So SEO, Search Engine Optimization, obviously that would be the traditional Google type search platform across all industries. The term has really stuck and more than a decade of work in terms of what businesses can do to optimize for visibility in traditional search engines like Google. Flash forward to the world of AI tools like ChatGPT. And the industry hasn't yet really codified which term will hold as we go forward. We see AEO answer engine optimization as one term that I would put at the top as having the greatest visibility within our space. Geo Generative engine optimization is another. You'll hear others talk about AI SEO, but for what it's worth, ultimately what we've really found is as advisors and wealth management firms continue to really place emphasis on that traditional SEO effort, it really pays dividends and there are nuances to ensuring the greater likelihood to appear within the answer engines. AI tools and I'll just call it AEO for today's purposes. But at the core the good news is for advisors and wealth management firms that have done a great job with their SEO to date, that's really providing a solid foundation for their visibility within the AI search tools. As we go forward.
- [28:17]
A
I talked to a lot of advisors around artificial intelligence, generative AI, ChatGPT, Claude Gemini, perplexity how these tools are being used. But my argument is always the way most people are using these tools is they're using it like Google. They're asking to your earlier point, like who's an advisor near me? But instead maybe they're asking who's an advisor like me that you know, works at this company or works with people like this. Explain maybe how AI search changes things and what that means for an advisor.
- [28:52]
B
A couple of things on that front. So it's important for advisors to still have a modern website. And one of the things you'll hear and we'll get a little nerdy again, schema markup. So ensuring that not only what's visible on the front of the page is also coded in a manner with what's referred to as schema markup on the back of pages to make it easier for the AI search tools to understand and ingest the information from an advisor's website. So that's one piece. Now, beyond the advisor's website, it's also important that advisors and firms establish credibility on third party platforms, whether that's LinkedIn, all of the traditional social media platforms. Because what the AI search tools know and understand is that anybody can put up a website and they're looking for trust signals, credibility signals. And so if you have an established presence with consistency around who you are as a firm, who you are as an advisor, what you do, how you do it across all of those platforms. It's essentially helping the AI search tools to triangulate and understand is this a legitimate business? And this is where it's also important as an advisor, if you have your CFP designation, if you're a member of the Financial Planning association as an example, to have that visibility in their directory to keep that maintained. Because obviously fpa, another very credible organization. So whether it's FPA or other associations, having a modern profile is going to be important there as well. And then layering on top of that, if you're so inclined. Platforms like Wealth Tinder, the online reviews takes it to another level. We've seen a number of studies that really indicate when AI search tools are going out and providing feedback for a consumer about a business. There's actually a lot more that they're generating within the answers coming from websites other than the business itself. And that again gets back into what are people saying about it through reviews. Are they credible and visible on other platforms that are known to be reputable to those AI search tools? And then also looking at the website itself as a validation point as well.
- [31:05]
A
This is super interesting and multidimensional here, pun intended. Let's dive into some of these dimensions. So this schema markup, the way I think of this and tell me if I'm reading it right, it's like a barcode for the generative AI tools like ChatGPT, in the sense that if I go to the supermarket and I'm buying a bottle of water here, if I just scan the barcode, it knows it's a bottle of water, it knows the weight, it knows everything just quickly by the barcode. If the barcode's not working, then the person has to type in everything. For advisors on their websites, just the content's not enough. It's this schema markup which provides the barcode for the engine that translates it quickly. Am I reading that right? Is that an accurate analogy?
- [31:53]
B
Also thinking about it, almost like a database, where if you think about a database being very structured, what's in a particular tab, in an Excel spreadsheet, or in a particular column or field, Essentially the schema markup. And there are different types of schema markup, including financial services schema markup, there's FAQ schema markup, there's online reviews schema markup. And so within each of those different categories of markup, there's different fields and tables that essentially should be populated and effectively then what's on the front end of a website, whether it's online reviews or FAQs or the address of the firm, all of that information, ideally on the back end, is appearing within those database table type fields to ensure, similar to the barcode, that it's understood, it's structured data. It's increasingly helping those tools know, okay, well, what is this on the front end? Obviously we've seen the AI search tools can read the front end of a website, but just making it that much easier for them to understand. Okay, what is that that I'm reading on the front of the website? It's organized on the back end in this schema markup language. So I know exactly that this is an FAQ or that this is an online review as opposed to content that's just narrative about the firm written by the firm itself.
- [33:11]
A
You can get more structured with this schema markup. That translates better to showing up more in these answer engines.
- [33:20]
B
Right. And to your point, I've looked at a lot of websites and one of the things that I would highlight and encourage advisors to do is to not only think about the website being well positioned for the schema markup for the AI tools, but of course you want it to be a great experience for the individual. And increasingly that really needs to be. What is it about you, what is it about your firm that differentiates you from other firms? And that's where the FAQs can be useful, not only for prospects visiting your site, but also for the AI search tools. Do you specialize in particular areas? Do you have a compensation model that sets you apart? Is there a particular type of client that you serve that you want not only prospects when they visit the site to quickly say, oh, that's me, but also the AI search tools now to understand when they should be recommending you, depending upon the nature of the search that's being conducted out there. Yeah.
- [34:17]
A
Now I'm hearing more and more advisory firms saying, we found this prospect, they found us using ChatGPT or Gemini. And I encourage any listener out there to open up one of those tools and ask, be almost like a secret shopper or put yourself in the shoes of a prospect and ask it. Tell us a little bit about some of the signals that these tools use. I know Reddit is a primary driver. LinkedIn, you mentioned third party websites. Should advisors have a Reddit strategy? What should advisors be thinking of when they think about their strategy here for third party?
- [34:55]
B
So in the early days of the AI search Tools, you may remember that they were putting up answers, were generating answers, you know, how do you make a pizza? And they were going out to Reddit and suggesting, you know, putting like Elmer's glue. So the AI search tools, to their credit, are recognizing Reddit may not be the go to, especially in categories like health, like finance. And you may hear terms, again, getting a little nerdy, like ymyl, your money or your life, or eeat experience, education, authoritativeness and trustworthiness. And these are all areas specifically relevant to financial services, to health, that are terms being utilized by the search tools themselves to recognize, you know, if somebody's looking for a physician, we probably shouldn't be relying on Reddit all that much. Or financial advisor. Maybe we should be looking to other reputable sources. LinkedIn is certainly a great one. Online review platforms designed for regulatory compliance with the transparency that helps those AI search tools know that these are credible and authentic reviews would be another. So ultimately we're seeing that continual evolution and obviously it's happening extraordinarily quickly. But I wouldn't necessarily suggest, and I'll nuance this, that advisors or firms should have a Reddit strategy. You know, Reddit by definition is a very authentic platform where true humans are sharing very transparently their opinions. I will say if you are an advisor and you are looking to target a particular niche that has active communities on Reddit, and you can be an authentic voice offering expertise, leading with education, you may very well have success doing just that and thinking about it as another channel. Just as many advisors have succeeded with YouTube videos, providing education, leading with education, or doing the same on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, the platform of your choice.
- [36:55]
A
I love that. I think that's a really powerful example. One of the things that's unique about these AI tools is they change, right? Like the models are changing. You can ask it one prompt one day and the next day you get a different prompt result. How should advisors or a firm invest in a channel where they're chasing algorithmic change?
- [37:19]
B
There's definitely a mix of art and science with everything advisors and firms should think about with their online strategy. Ultimately, the goal is to put as many of the odds in your favor as possible by doing all the right things from an SEO perspective, from an AEO perspective, and as it pertains to particular channels, really finding that channel. If you are going to be proactively marketing through YouTube videos or webinars, seminars, whatever that may be, ensure that you're passionate about it, stick to it, and execute really well upon it, because the Algorithms are going to continue to change and we could look at both online strategies to attract clients and increasingly do that through AI search tools as a distribution channel in itself. So for some firms, if they do have a strategy of leading with education in an offline setting, then you may not need to be as concerned about your optimization for AI visibility. Now, with that said, I do think fundamentally having online reviews, ensuring that if you are sending out postcards to get somebody to attend a seminar again, they're going to go online, is this an advisor that other people trust? It's a great way to not only get more individuals showing up, but also providing the ability for them to understand when they get there all the great things that people have to say about you as an advisor getting into that AI space itself. Every firm has an opportunity to succeed and many will continue to succeed even if they don't modernize their website. They don't choose to invest in really ensuring that AI optimization and can continue to grow through client referrals if they have a good reputation in the community. With that said, the firms that are going to achieve the greatest growth and will be most likely to win business are exactly the ones that are going to be focusing on ensuring that they show up. Even if securing new clients specifically from AI as an acquisition channel isn't a priority, the fact that consumers, regardless of your strategy, are going out there, it's important that you're showing up to be there when the moment is right and they're looking to make that decision.
- [39:26]
A
It's a great point about growth and just to double click on that and go a little deeper. If I'm a marketing director or I'm a firm leader and I have a dashboard that I track metrics around growth, are there any measures or indicators, both leading or lagging, that I should be tracking when it relates to this and how I show up and what would be useful for me if I'm monitoring
- [39:53]
B
that your secret shopper analogy previously was a good one and that today to measure your visibility in the AI search tools, the most effective way is to really just roll up your sleeves. Cond different searches and perhaps even setting 15, 20 different queries. That would be the types of prompts that you would anticipate your ideal client profile, a prospect putting in to a ChatGPT or an AI search tool and on a monthly basis performing those prompts, entering those prompts into the different search tools to see what they say. And as you continue to invest in your online presence, do they change over time? Now, again, it's extraordinarily fluid right now. So we are going to continue to see the evolution of what you're doing to position yourself for visibility there changing, but that's one way to monitor it. We are starting to see some tools emerge that could help businesses institutionalize or systematize some of that manual work that I just mentioned. But I would still suggest today at least, it's much more ad hoc. We are expecting that Google is going to be rolling out some new tools that will assist from an analytics perspective, specifically Google Analytics that historically has only provided measurement on traditional search and looking to expand that into some visibility into the Gemini type search or the AI Overview type search. So more to come on that front, but still very early days.
- [41:20]
A
And is that something an advisor would pay for or would that just come as a business owner?
- [41:25]
B
The tools that exist today, I haven't yet come to a conclusion that they're necessarily worth the investment. There are a couple that seem to be taking a leadership position and getting a lot of good visibility for what they're looking to build. But ultimately many of those tools today are still just providing an opportunity to take those types of prompts on a monthly basis and packaging it up to save time, which in itself could be valuable and useful. But I think it's going to be a little bit further out before we see some of the true value tools emerge, and ultimately probably not until we see some of the AI search tools themselves providing a lens into the actual analytics when we'll truly know that clearly this is valuable because it's coming authentically from the source.
- [42:12]
A
That's good to stay tuned on that there. I'd love to get more granular with a specialized case study here. Let's say we've got some big IPOs on the horizon. SpaceX, OpenAI, Anthropic, all mentioned out there. If an employee of one of those firms and now we're getting meta here thinking about you work at one of these firms, but you're using some of these tools, what would they be going through using these tools? And how can an advisor target employees of those firms or really any companies out there?
- [42:42]
B
Exactly along those lines, if we go back 10 years ago, it probably was less likely that an individual, when they're looking for a financial advisor, would say, oh hey, by the way, I work at this particular employer. I'm looking for an advisor that speaks specializes in helping people like me that they understand our compensation plan, the benefits. But flash forward to today and as you mentioned, whether it's IPOs on the horizon or the complexity of equity comp at a number of larger organizations. And it could also be, you know, corporate actions, layoffs. Again, perhaps a little meta, but as we are seeing, AI really infiltrate all professions and all industries and potentially resulting in layoffs. There's a lot of employees of firms that have a catalyst now in their life to look for an advisor who understands the particular nuances of their compensation plan, their benefits. And so one of the things we've done is today we've helped over 100 advisors position themselves as experts. Given the knowledge that they've ascertained over the years, working with employees and executives at firms where we can create question and answer style resources published on Wealth Tender to really showcase the expertise that they've gained through that experience with their clients. And now a couple of things happen. One, that resource that's published on Wealth Tunder is not only valuable for the prospect that's coming directly to Wealth Tunder, but it's also positioning the advisor as one of the top advisors. When an AI search tool, especially today, a lot of people might be going out and saying, you know, hey, I work at Anthropic, I'm looking for an advisor that understands the Anthropic employee benefits and can help as we approach this ipo. And in fact, we've seen advisors get calls from prospects because they are finding them on Wealth Tender and that type of a resource. So along those lines, it's important that if you are focused on a particular niche specifically attracting employees, executives at a particular firm would highly encourage first and foremost to have a landing page on your website to really speak to that particular audience that you're looking to attract. But again, then getting back into the AI search tools that are looking to understand, okay, does this advisor really specialize in this particular type of client? If you participate in a question and answer resource on that topic featured on Wealth Tender with the strength of our domain authority, A, it's going to be much more likely that you show up. B, it's sending those credibility and trust signals that the AI search tools are looking for. It's not just the advisor on their website saying this. I can see that they have exposure here. Maybe the advisor has an opportunity to be quoted in the media, maybe a local business journal related to that business going public or the layoffs that are taking place, or a corporate action, merger, acquisition, et cetera. And then taking it a step further, if you do specialize in working with Chevron employees, again, it doesn't have to be a tech company and you have Online reviews that are written by employees from Chevron that says Steve in demand helps me transition to retirement from my 30 year career at Chevron or Exxon or IBM. That becomes powerful not only for that prospect that reads the review who also works there, but that's telling. The AI search tools. Wow. Clearly this is an advisor that specializes in working with employees at this particular firm. Let me move them closer to the top of the list to ensure that that advisor gets greater exposure.
- [45:59]
A
That's such a good point. The validation of someone who's been in that position I found interesting when I to the Wealth Tender website and saw those different questions. You're right. I mean you cover American Airlines, you cover all different sectors. Even you know, you work at an asset manager, you know, corporate company. I encourage any listener out there to check those out. It's a really great signal out there. You mentioned that the engines deprioritize if it's from an advisor website because they know that the advisor is incentivized. Since advisors work with Wealth Tender, how does that factor in? Are there disclosures there? What does that look like?
- [46:41]
B
Yeah, and I would emphasize again, it's important to have that modern website. I don't want to discourage advisors and firms to not focus on the website presence. But the reality to your point is absolutely that when it comes to credibility, the tools are looking elsewhere for validation. Ultimately they are going to go to the advisor or the firm's website to look to the nuanced particulars. Specifically, if somebody says, you know what, I definitely want to work with this firm, summarize for me what I can expect as we're getting through onboarding or tell me more about specifically what they have to say about their services. Naturally the best place for the AI tool to source that is from the website itself. But during that discovery process, the credibility signals, the trust signals are in many instances coming from those third party platforms. And so that's where the advisors, the firms that have a good website that have the presence on Wealth Tender, they have the online reviews ideally also have strength on LinkedIn and have their directory listings through various associations where they have their designations. All of those are sending those credibility signals, trust signals and also, you know, simply the regulatory databases, you know, the broker check and the SEC IOPD website, the AI search tools are now looking there as well, which is great as they should be to just confirm, yes, this is a licensed financial advisor ensuring that you know, the information is out there as useful to the tools as well.
- [48:09]
A
It's an important reminder for a Lot of advisors. It is a multidimensional approach. It's not just the website or just these, you know, target client profiles or niched FAQs. And one thing that I always look at when we're looking at advisor study data is how how much percent of revenue of a firm is spent on marketing and it's incredibly low in our industry. I mean traditionally between 2 to 3% of revenue is spent on marketing. And what we see in the data is when a firm spends north of four to four and a half percent, that's when you start to see a pop in more clients coming in. And part of that I think correlation isn't causation but I think it's is attributed to a strategy that is more than just one ads on Facebook let's say. I mean it is multi faceted. So I'm curious what is something that they should be doing or maybe what are some of the high value actions that you would encourage them to start doing within the first 90 days?
- [49:10]
B
Let's say in my opinion simply spending more on marketing isn't necessarily a reflection of a firm that can expect greater growth because there's clearly a lot of vendors and tools that are happy to take your money, many of which are a good potential investment. But then it's what you do with those tools to really maximize the investment. And you know, I'll use as an example, obviously there are some very well known pay per lead type platforms out there and you know, many advisors and larger firms especially may spend thousands of dollars a month to collect those cold leads. And then the advisors are following up with that prospect, maybe competing with two other advisors. And if you're spending that type of money, what's the experience for that prospect when they decide, okay, I'm going to research these three advisors and you're the one that doesn't have reviews. You don't have a modern website so you can spend more money on marketing. But if you're not investing in the right areas and you don't have the fundamentals, then that ROI on a pay per lead type tool might be 4% conversion rate. If that works for you, that's great. But what if you could turn it into an 8% conversion rate simply by having online reviews that out of the 90% of advisors that don't have them, if you're competing with two other advisors now, you're probably going to be the one that gets the first call. So getting the house in order to your point, I would start with the fundamentals before just spending More on marketing, really take a step back and ensure that you've got the modern website, that you're doing all of the things that don't cost a lot of money, which includes having that review strategy, getting over the imposter syndrome, ultimately getting those invitations out to clients, because once you see those coming in, the dividends that come from that, and now that can be applied towards that incremental marketing spend can be really impactful. Another example, going back to like the SpaceX or the OpenAI with the resources that are published on Wealth Tender, that's another opportunity for advisors that are now proactively reaching out, perhaps even spending hundreds or thousands of dollars a month on tools that are putting them in front of employees and executives at those firms. Well, they want to understand why should I trust you as an advisor, that you really know your stuff as it pertains to me as an employee at this firm. So there are tools out there to help you target that right type of individual. But if you don't have the landing page on your website, if you don't have resources published online that are articulating the fact that you are an expert, you're really missing out on an opportunity to get a greater return on your investment from those types of tools that are putting you in front of the right eyeballs. But ultimately, once those eyeballs come online, if they don't see what they need to pick up the phone and schedule that introductory call, you're doing yourself a disservice.
- [51:54]
A
Good point. If I'm an advisor in the car listening to this conversation right now and I'm pulling into my office, what's the, the first step you would recommend someone doing?
- [52:05]
B
I do think the wake up call for many advisors, going back to the secret shopper analogy is just to start there, really look at not only Google itself, but ChatGPT, Gemini, perplexity. Go down the list and pick even before you do that, five or six prompts, the types of things that you would hope if somebody is a prospect that's a good fit for your firm, they might be entering and look to see where you're showing up and where you're not. The vast majority of firms are going to realize they're not showing up and that starts to then inform the very things that you want to work on. So identifying. Why didn't we show up for this query? Well, we don't have anything speaking to that particular capability on our website or it's very thin and limited. Why aren't we showing up for this particular geographic area. Well, you know, what are you doing to do exactly that? Right. And so we're starting to essentially do that audit in that manner and then from there, you know, reaching out, whether it's to a marketing consultant or agency, or if you have an in house chief marketing officer, marketing team, or, you know, many of the vendors, ourselves included, are happy to consult with advisors and firms to offer a sounding board and you know, no cost just to have that conversation and provide some transparent non its feedback.
- [53:17]
A
Great, I'd love to do just a quick lightning round. So I'm going to start a sentence and I want you to complete with the first answer that comes to mind. So here we go. A referral without a credible digital presence
- [53:30]
B
is likely to hire an advisor who has a strong digital presence.
- [53:37]
A
The most underused marketing asset in an
- [53:39]
B
advisory firm is collecting online reviews that fewer than 10% of firms are using today.
- [53:46]
A
The most overrated advisor marketing metric is
- [53:52]
B
traffic to a website for the very reason that you need to be focused on quality, not quantity. And simply looking at visibility like, oh, how much traffic are we getting? That's not the right answer. You need to ensure you're getting the right traffic, the right eyeballs.
- [54:07]
A
Great. The first page on most advisory websites that needs to be improved is coming
- [54:14]
B
up with language that truly identifies you as an individual, you as a firm. That's not. We offer comprehensive financial planning to people who are near during retirement. Look at the lighthouse and sailboat on our homepage. Truly the opportunity to personalize your firm and the homepage to the individual that you want to attract.
- [54:31]
A
The biggest misconception about AI search is
- [54:35]
B
that it's fundamentally unique and different from traditional search. When people are going out to an AI tool, often the AI tools are then taking that prompt and pushing it out to Google and effectively coming back with what's called query. Fan out all of that information coming back from traditional search.
- [54:54]
A
Love that the firms most likely to win will be the ones that stay
- [54:59]
B
abreast of the ongoing evolution of the world that we live in and putting themselves in the shoes of the types of prospects that they want to attract to understand how they're showing up and the types of searches that those individuals are conducting.
- [55:14]
A
Great, great, Brian, thank you so much. And then finally, I always like to close. As a former educator, all of us have probably had mentors or educators or someone who's made an impact in your life. Who would you say comes to mind for you and what lessons has that taught you in terms of how you've led and operated at wealthender.
- [55:33]
B
Yeah. You know, for me personally, probably the school of hard knocks more than anything, but specifically, you know, looking at my father, who had an entrepreneurial journey and getting to ride along and see just how incredibly difficult and challenging and hard that can be, and for him to essentially, over a long career, finally get to a point where he could say he was an overnight success, you know, 40 years later. But throughout that period, to be able to provide for family along with my mom and for us to have an incredible upbringing, it just instilled within me the work ethic that's really required in order to do something more entrepreneurial also contributed to my decision to not do anything more entrepreneurial until a little bit later in life and having some cushion to understandably get through the harder of getting a company off the ground. But ultimately, I would have to give my father the credit on that front.
- [56:24]
A
That's a great shout out. In preparing for our conversation, I listened to some of your other podcasts, and one of the stories that stood out was, as a kid, you set up this call room and this whole section of an office, and you see it, and then a few months later, you realize that didn't work out and he had to pivot and change. That's this constant entrepreneurial grit and perseverance. And I think that image really stuck out in my head. You're living it now, and I think learning from those lessons is very clear. Brian, let me see if I can summarize what I heard today. We started with the fact that a referral is no longer the finish line. Right. Like in the beginning, a prospect's due diligence goes beyond just, hey, my friend recommended you. It's what they're searching for. They're comparing alternatives. They're deciding what it's going to feel like to work with an advisor. And then we looked into prospects, what they're screening for. Right. It's more than just who you serve or what problems you solve. It really becomes more about the individual and what makes them feel inclusive and makes the advisor visible to that person. The third point that came through was that clients rarely describe an advisor's value just in terms of investment performance.
- [57:42]
B
Right.
- [57:42]
A
We talked about the dimensional investor study, Brian's own work at Wealth Tender and their independent studies. Evidence beats adjectives, right? The value of the advisor is in working with people like an individual. It's that sense of security and peace of mind. It's that clarity, the confidence that advisors are giving. Fourth testimonials can become part of a broader trust system. It's not just one aspect. It's multidimensional. It requires a repeatable process, appropriate disclosures, compliance, oversight, and intentional distribution. Fifth, when we talked about AI search, it raises the value of information that's specific, structured, follows that schema is consistent, it's corroborated. It's a way that advisors can build credible information rather than just chasing a single algorithm. And then finally, that specialization turns expertise into a searchable answer. The goal isn't to be everywhere, it's to become especially clear and credible when the right person is looking for help. So the practical challenge for advisors is to become easy to find, easy to understand, easy to validate, and easy to contact. Brian, did I miss anything or what would you sharpen in that summary?
- [58:58]
B
I think you covered it all and made it all sound really easy.
- [59:02]
A
Well, I know it's not easy and advisors listening. You're not alone out there. Obviously make use of the resources at Dimensional. We're here to help you along that journey. Brian, as he mentioned, is happy to be a resource as well, but you all are doing the good work. When I read those reviews, it's incredible the power and impact you're having on people's lives. Very few professions have that impact to the degree that you do. Hopefully you feel charged listening to the end of this. Thank you for listening. Thank you Brian. We appreciate your time and thoughts.
- [59:33]
C
Thank you for joining us for Dimensional Fund Advisors Managing youg Practice podcast. For more information, please visit www.dimensional.com. dimensional Fund Advisors LP is an investment advisor registered with the securities and Exchange Commission. The views, information or opinions expressed during this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dimensional or its affiliates. This information does not constitute legal or regulatory advice and should not be relied on as such. You should not act or rely on any information contained in this podcast without first seeking the advice of an attorney or your compliance professional. Dimensional does not endorse, recommend, or guarantee the services of any third party. Dimensional and Wealth Tender are unaffiliated entities. All expressions, information and opinions are subject to change. This podcast is distributed for informational purposes and it is not to be construed as an offer, solicitation, recommendation, or endorsement of any particular security, products or services. Please consult with qualified legal or tax professionals regarding your individual circumstances. Investing involves risks. Risks include loss of principal and fluctuating value. This podcast is available for private, non commercial use only. You may not edit, modify or redistribute this podcast without the express written consent of Dimensional. Dimensional assumes no liability for any activities in connection with this podcast or for use in connection with any other website, computer or playing device.