Feedback as Fuel for Growth: Why Your Clients’ Point of View Matters Most

Summary

Podcast Summary: Managing Your Practice

Episode Title: Feedback as Fuel for Growth: Why Your Clients’ Point of View Matters Most
Date: October 25, 2024
Host: Kathryn Williams, Head of Practice Management, Dimensional Fund Advisors
Guest: Helen Stevens, Founder, Aspen Wealth Management

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Episode Overview

This episode explores how gathering and acting on client feedback can drive business growth and enhance the client experience for advisory firms. Kathryn Williams and Helen Stevens discuss the importance of defining an ideal client profile, leveraging advisory councils, and intentional feedback mechanisms. The conversation highlights how evolving your approach to client engagement directly influences firm culture, business strategy, and referral generation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining and Evolving the Ideal Client Profile

[00:00–07:48]

• Initial Beliefs vs. Evolution: Helen Stevens reflected on starting Aspen Wealth Management with a focus on professional women and women in transition (widowhood, divorce), but the client base broadened to include their partners and couples.
• “Now I think we’re more of a firm for women and the men who love them and couples.”—Helen Stevens [03:42]
• The focus is not just on demographics (age, wealth) but also on behaviors and values—how clients show up, what drives them, and how well they align with the firm’s mission.

2. Identifying Fit Beyond Financials

[06:24–07:48]

• Stevens shared that their onboarding process asks potential clients, “What is important about money to you?” to assess value alignment.
• Giving herself and her team permission to turn away clients that aren’t a good fit, regardless of account size.
• “If we don’t feel like they’re a great value fit for us, we’re just not going to do. Doesn’t make your day joyful to get up and go to work every day to serve people that you just feel like you’re knocking your head against a wall.”—Helen Stevens [07:22]

3. Gathering and Acting on Client Feedback

[10:38–14:38]

• Two primary methods:
  1. Ongoing, personalized feedback after meetings (“What are we doing great? What can we do better?”).
  2. Formal annual investor surveys (benchmarking using Dimensional’s tools), which are discussed transparently with a client advisory council.
• A notable insight: Clients weren’t referring because they didn’t know Helen wanted new clients or what kind she was looking for.
• “One of my longest time clients actually said to me, Helen, I didn’t know you were looking for new clients.”—Helen Stevens [13:24]
• This prompted a change to explicitly communicate growth goals and ideal client profiles to clients.

4. Building a Feedback Culture and Referral Generation

[14:51–18:48]

• Feedback leads to referrals when clients understand the type of client you value.
• Intentional practice and role-modeling by senior advisors helps embed the culture of transparency and openness in the team.
• Referral discussions are made more natural by expressing appreciation for existing clients and inviting introductions in non-salesy ways.
• Educating clients on how to refer: one-pagers, informal get-togethers, and digital resources are helpful, especially for younger clients (HENRYs: High Earners Not Rich Yet) who are more likely to refer.

5. Using Digital Tools and Analytics to Attract and Understand Clients

[20:56–24:15]

• Advisory council helped Aspen Wealth clarify and publicly display client “personas” on the website, improving digital engagement and conversion rates.
• Heavy investment in SEO and digital presence was highlighted as key for attracting qualified clients.
• Using Google Analytics helps guide the type of content created and where energy is best spent, to match client interests and needs.

6. Frequency and Methods for Soliciting Feedback

[24:35–25:39]

• Formal survey once a year.
• Every client meeting ends with “What have we done well and how can we improve for you?” as part of a standardized agenda.
• Regular practice helps both clients and team members to be comfortable with feedback exchanges.

7. Adapting Client Experience for Different Demographics

[26:00–27:19]

• Content and communication tailored for different client segments (retirees vs. young professionals) based on feedback; challenge lies in meeting varying needs efficiently.
• Advisory council input is vital for understanding content and technology preferences.

8. Best Practices for Running Client Advisory Councils

[27:19–34:41]

• Aspen Wealth’s advisory council meets ~every 18 months, with 8–10 members (sometimes up to 12, with rotating membership).
• Diversity is intentional: long-term and new clients, different demographics for a range of perspectives.
• Meetings focus on strategic pain points and integrating dimensional survey results.
• Transparent follow-up is crucial: “You can have your say. You may not get your way.”—Helen Stevens [33:21]
• Advisory councils create champions: “They are our walking billboards and we are blessed by some great advocates for us.”—Helen Stevens [34:41]

9. Suggestions for Advisors Implementing Feedback Mechanisms

[35:56–37:04]

• Consider multiple, focused advisory councils (e.g., for business owners, HENRYs).
• Start by examining current client base for existing client “types” who are enjoyable to serve and account for revenue, service use, and psychographics.
• Use those clients both as council members and as templates for ideal future clients.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We are psychologists without a license... family therapists, all kinds of stuff. To get to that level of vulnerability is really what it’s all about.”—Helen Stevens [09:29]
• “Who doesn’t love to talk about themselves? Asking that question is very powerful.”—Helen Stevens [14:51]
• “I had to make myself practice this. But as a firm, I think it’s a part of our culture.”—Helen Stevens [16:11]
• “Even your existing clients, at times they want to see you out there and that’s how they’re engaging with you.”—Kathryn Williams [22:35]
• “If we’re getting a lot of hits on a certain kind of content, doesn’t it make sense that we should create more of that content?”—Helen Stevens [23:40]
• “You can have your say. You may not get your way.”—Helen Stevens [33:21]
• “They are our walking billboards and we are blessed by some great advocates for us.”—Helen Stevens [34:41]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:00–03:07] — Introduction and background on client profile evolution
• [06:24–07:48] — Defining a values-oriented ideal client and fit/feel factor
• [10:38–14:38] — Methods for gathering and using client feedback; client advisory panel insights
• [13:24–14:38] — Notable client insights leading to new growth communication strategy
• [20:56–24:15] — Digital engagement strategy and analytics-driven content creation
• [24:35–25:39] — Feedback cadence and agenda
• [27:19–34:41] — Advisory panel best practices, challenges, managing feedback, and advocate creation
• [35:56–37:04] — Expanding advisory panels and strategic client segmentation

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Conclusion

Defining and evolving your ideal client profile, embracing a culture of feedback, and intentionally communicating your firm's growth ambitions and values are fundamental to sustainable growth and client satisfaction in a modern advisory practice. Helen Stevens’ experience at Aspen Wealth illustrates the power of regular, open client dialogue—both one-on-one and through councils—as vehicles for both business improvement and organic referral growth. The episode encourages advisors to use analytics, practice the feedback “muscle,” and get purposeful about client engagement at every level.

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For more resources on implementing client advisory councils or building feedback programs, Dimensional Fund Advisors provides practice management tools and best practices.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign hi everyone. Thanks for joining for this episode of Managing youg Practice. I'm your host, Kathryn Williams, head of practice management here at Dimensional Fund Advisors. Our team has collected more than a decade of insights on how advisors can address some of the key components of running a successful advisory firm. And one of the key metrics that we have seen for quite some time in our Global Advisor study in particular is, is how firms develop and leverage a target client profile. These are the clients they believe they can deliver the greatest value to, who they most want to work with. In addition to impacting the business in areas such as capacity and profitability. How they use what they know about these target clients to curate their client experience is a key differentiator. But also getting more of those clients, the clients they most want to replicate. And it's been really nice to see that that percentage of firms that say, yes, we have a target client profile has actually increased. We're sitting right around 80%, which I love. There's you talk about that other 20%, perhaps on a different day. But what I particularly find interesting is that when you look at how, what, what are the components of an ideal target client profile and when we look at fast growing firms, high performing firms in our study, there are two areas that they are more likely to include in their ideal target client profile. And that informs the way they solicit feedback. It informs who they go after in the marketplace. They are more likely to include the behaviors and the values of the clients that they most want to work with. So yes, they think about demographics, they think about, of course, size, revenue, opportunity, but they really lean in around how do these people show up in their communities, what's driving them each day and how can I, as an advisor with that information really meet their needs and deliver an excellent client experience? We're going to unpack that a little bit today. And to help me with that conversation, and it's my pleasure to introduce someone that has thought very carefully within her business who they most want to work with. And we'll ask the question of did that, was that on day one or was it an evolutionary process? But really thinking about who do you most want to engage with in your business and how can that inform your growth strategy? Helen Stevens founded Aspen wealth management in 2011. They specialize particularly in retirement and tax planning. Helen is also a frequent speaker around women and money, including a specific course around financial understanding for women through Texas Christian University, through tcu. And Helen, it's just really great to have you with us.

[B]

I appreciate your having Me, I'm looking.

[A]

Forward to this conversation because this is really where your business strategy starts, your client experience strategy, in my opinion starts and quite honestly also can even inform the kinds of people that you bring into your organization. So I think this is always a top conversation. I don't know any firm that feels like they've really, really figured it out. But there are some things that organizations can do and I know you've implemented a number of them at Aspenwell, so.

[B]

That'S what we've tried.

[A]

You tried? Yeah. Well, that's good. As we said, it's usually an evolutionary process, if you will. So with that in mind, when you started aspenwealth, did you have a clear understanding of the kinds of clients that you wanted to work with?

[B]

Well, I thought I did. You know, I thought when I started Aspen that I'd attract and be able to best serve highly professional women in the, in the workplace, but also women in transition. So women that are undergoing, you know, widowhood or a divorce. And then while we have those clients, it's really morphed over time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now I think we're more of a firm for women and the men who love them and couples.

[A]

That's a great way to put that.

[B]

Typically when they come in, they're so fearful that the male part of that relationship is going to die off first. Statistically we know that that is generally the case. And he wants to make sure that his wife is supported and has a place at the table where whether they're do it yourselfers and he's always done everything, or they have an advisory relationship and she doesn't feel like she's part of the conversation at all. So they're looking for her to be able to come in and have the education, support and care that they're lacking today. And so that's really how our practice has morphed. It's kind of amazing to think about it.

[A]

Do you have clients that maybe fall out of that primary target?

[B]

Oh, sure. I mean, while we still have that as a focus and on our website, we really have built out those Personas and we did that really with the help of our client advisory panel, which I hope we'll talk about later. But we've really found success in our Henrys, our high earning not rich yet subset. We even have an advisory council for them and those high earning young professionals. There's a few things we hear as common themes. We don't wanna end up like our parents. We know that we're blessed with an immense amount of income for our age and we don't wanna be stupid about it. And for some of them, the cashflow challenges, just that cash flow planning. So yes, I mean, that's kind of morphed. And I think some of that has to do with my team. I'm blessed with an incredible coworkers and they're younger than me by a lot. And so who is it, you know, who can relate? It's a better relation there. Whereas I think when you're talking about the more mature set getting ready to retire and retirees, I'm probably the better fit. Although we all service all of those.

[A]

Types you mentioned, particularly with Henry's. They're in wealth accumulation mode or they're accelerating anyway. What are some of the other characteristics that you look for that might inform you that yep, they really do align with that target profile. We know we can deliver good value to them, great value to them. Are there any other behaviors or characteristics that you see in that particular group that helps clue you in as to whether they might be a good fit for you as a client?

[B]

Well, you're, you're watching for behaviors for sure. Do they. Do they have the motivation to save? Are they showing and illustrating that some of them just don't know how? So they're looking for that too. But I'll tell you, the more telling to us on our profile that we ask everyone to fill out before they come in, we're not asking. I mean, anybody can bring us statements. I mean, that's not really what we're looking for. We ask a question about what is important about money to you and we need to see some alignment of values. And as we unpack that in our first meeting with anybody who comes into our firm, we really need to feel like it's a fit. I give myself permission to say we're just really not going to be a fit for one another. And I give my team permission to say, I really don't think you're a fit for us. And I don't care how many zeros there are behind somebody who comes in the door. If we don't feel like they're a great value fit for us, we're just not going to do. Doesn't make your day joyful to get up and go to work every day to serve people that you just feel like you're knocking your head against a wall. So we're very clear on that fit and feel factor in Aspen. Yeah.

[A]

You remind me of a story I heard years ago. Brian Lightner, who's with Mariner Wealth Head of practice management. And he talks about this idea of instead of, as you said, you know, asking for tax returns or your current statements or things like that, when you as an advisor getting ready to meet with a prospect, instead asked that prospect to bring in three photos. And this idea, he tells the story of a young gentleman who's had secured a major league baseball contract. So he went from probably, you know, $3 in his bank account to suddenly. And he'd been really struggling to find an advisor. And this advisor said, you know, bring in three photos. And he brought in a photo of a park bench, he brought in a photo of his mom, and he brought in a photo of a palm tree. And through that conversation, they were able to unearth that. First of all, take care of mom. That's number one. Like whatever I do, you know, how, how rare and exciting is it to get an MLB contract, be able to play and make that kind of money? But you got to take care of mom. And the palm tree was to say, enjoy this. Right. This is an exciting opportunity, exciting ride, super young. But the park bench was to convey that he had spent portions of his youth homeless. So his relationship with money was greatly informed by that. And no advisor, you can look at bank statements all day long, but if you don't like, how do you get to that? And so that story has always stuck with me. It is powerful and I think it gets to thinking about, even if you know who you want to work with because you know the value you can bring, you have to still help the clients see that you have to make that connection and make sure that, you know, yes, they're a right fit for you, but really they ultimately see, yes, you're, you know, Aspen wealth is going to help me get to where I ultimately want to go. Right.

[B]

It's the peace of mind factor that they feel like they can really relax and be their true selves and really open up. It's not always about the money. We are psychologists without a license. And so to be family therapists, all kinds of stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To get to that level of vulnerability is really what it's all about.

[A]

So you have a, you have a body of clients that you work with. You're actively delivering an experience to them. And in theory, it's a referable experience, as we often talk about. Right. It's great enough that clients are referring, but there's a measurement and there's a discipline to measuring and assessing that in some regularity to make sure, like, hey, you know, even if you think about nps, Net promoter score. Like, we want everyone to be big promoters. We don't want detractors. The passives in the middle are the ones that actually keep me a little bit awake at night because you don't really quite know where they sat. But with all that said, how do you go about getting feedback and insight? You mentioned the client advisor. I'd love to unpack that for a few minutes. How do you gather feedback from clients to know, are we still hitting the mark? Are we still meeting their needs?

[B]

Well, really in two ways. And I think again, this goes back to those deep relationships that you form with people because in a trusting relationship, you have to be able to have tough conversations sometimes. So for our ideal clients, the ones that we want to replicate, we need to ask them at the end of a meeting or if we're out to lunch, having a casual meeting to say, what are the things that we're doing? Great. But based on all the things that you know and your experience with us, what are the things that we can do better? What are the things that we can improve upon that would make your life better, that would make your experience better? And generally there's just not a whole lot there. But on occasion, you don't know if you don't ask. Right. So that's the first way. The second way is that we do the investor survey with dimensional, powerful information that gets benchmarked against our peers. Wow. I mean, that's a lot of information. But then we take that information, especially from the surveys, and we use that both in our strategic planning process in the summer, but we also use that with our advisory panel and we show them the results.

[A]

You do. Interesting.

[B]

So people are maybe nervous about that or they don't want to share those kinds of things. But what I have found is it actually makes them feel more invested in the firm and they love that behind, ooh, we're getting the secret sauce, we're getting the behind the scenes view. But what really helped is when we see that there is a result that puzzles us. Like why was this the response? Or why is there a disconnect between this answer and this answer? We ask.

[A]

Yeah. Can you give an example of an area that you received some feedback around or insights gained that especially when you took it to that advisory council?

[B]

Sure. This just blew my mind, actually. So there was a question about, would you refer your advisor off the top? We have a really high NPS score and our clients say, yes, we would love to refer. But then the next question is, have you referred your advisor in the last, I think 12 months. Much different. Some had, of course, but it wasn't near what we would want to see. So I asked the question, here's this result. Here is this result. Why the disconnect? One of my longest time clients actually said to me, helen, I didn't know you were looking for new clients.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I'm like, what? I mean, you could have thrown me on the floor off my chair. I felt weak. Really. I'm like, have I been that so internally focused that I haven't said the words? And I know we all hear these things all the time and we're nervous because we don't want to sound salesy, but the other thing was of the clients who knew that we wanted to grow. So obviously I hadn't been that crazy with everybody. They said, we don't know the kind of client that you're looking for. So I was astounded by that feedback.

[A]

What great insight though.

[B]

Well, and that was our first advisory council. And I was left speechless. Our firm is, one, we'll do a financial plan for a fee. We don't require assets. We just believe everyone has the right to good financial planning. It doesn't have to come with a bunch of zeros. But to say I haven't articulated as the firm owner, one, we want to grow, and two, here's who we want to grow with. I was astounded. So right away that experience shifted how we share our needs and our wants back to our clients as they're sharing with us.

[A]

Is it an area where. So now it's an active conversation with clients. But how, so what, what changed going forward after you, after you had that gave that insight?

[B]

Well, first of all, as I'm giving the, the cliff notes from the advisory meeting back to the participants and thanking them for their time, I said, oh, and by the way, yes, we want to grow and yes, here's what, who we want to grow with. And once you have received constructive criticism or feedback, I mean, who doesn't love to talk about themselves? I mean asking that question is very powerful. But in the reverse, you know, through storytelling, through whatever, it's really easy to weave into a conversation about, listen, if there's somebody out there just like you, we adore you, we would love to have another one of you in our practice. How easy is that?

[A]

Well, it's easy, but for some, but I would say it can be really challenging for some, some advisors. And this isn't, I would say it's not an experience thing. It's not an introvert extrovert thing. It's more of just like, you know, you have to do that with confidence and feel confident about your ability to put that on the table, so to speak, in a, in a situation. So, you know, even as you think about your team, is that something maybe you practice or you talk about actively or how does that, how do you build that muscle, if you will?

[B]

It is intentional practice. I had to make myself practice this. But as a.

[A]

Which we love to do. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

But as a firm, I think it's a part of our culture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's become a part of who we are. It's how we approach our clients and how we care for our clients. So it's become just a part of how Aspen does business. When I was smaller and just kind of getting out of the gate and had my first co advisor, we always sit in teams and meetings. And so I think that as the senior, I have to model that behavior to where it becomes just a part of our process.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so by modeling that now the people as their cup and coming in their careers, they've just. It's always been how it's been done. It's not rocket science anymore. And so now our financial planning associates are learning from the other senior advisors and it just keeps going that way because it's ingrained in our culture.

[A]

Well, and, and you've hit on something. I think it's really important. You, it really, you've created this wonderful intersection between the client experience and how do you think about growth and the culture of the organization. And they, they, they're not mutually exclusive. And you know, in our experience, when we work with organizations that are growing nicely, they're getting the kinds of clients they most want to work with. There's a deep seated cultural element to that that informs how everyone shows up every day and you can't have one without the other, if you will.

[B]

I totally agree.

[A]

We've seen as well some, you know, for any, some folks that are listening that might be thinking, okay, what are some ways that I can educate my clients? First of all, let them know that I'm interested because what you cited is actually absolutely what we see year over year in the global investor study. And we consistently see that clients say, I didn't know that you were looking to grow and I wasn't exactly sure who you wanted to work with. The other piece is I wasn't exactly sure how to make a referral. When we asked that question in the study, clients more often than not say, yeah, I made a Referral, I passed your name along. It's like the most passive way that they could refer you. So for advisors that really begin to move the needle on these areas, it is about purposely educating clients that we are open for business, if you will, that we can help solve some really meaningful problems. And oh, by the way, if users, someone you'd like us to talk with, here's a great way to do that and really kind of make that a much more of a, of an actionable interaction, if you will. That's where we do see firms move the needle on that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So as opposed to. What I like to say is if there's somebody that you do want to introduce to us, let us just all get together and not even talk about business. Let's all get together and get to know each other as people. If it's local, that's easy. That's a lunch or a dinner I like to eat. Obviously, if it's somebody who's afar, well then let's all get on a quick, a quick video chat and have an introduction. That way it's much more personal. And then we can talk about why we think we've been a great fit for this client. And hopefully the client is a raving fan in front of the friend. So that's an easy change that people can make that's super comfortable, especially if you're not salesy, which that's not how we approach anything anyway. Our young professional advisory council actually asked us to create a one pager that just talks a little bit about our firm, but then has hyperlinks to some basic blogs that we've done or videos that we've done, educational materials that they can email to their friends. How easy is that too? I mean, these are just really simple ways to make it easier for them to refer their friends. And by the way, those Henrys, they refer like none other.

[A]

Well, and then on the flip side, if they're not happy, yes, that can absolutely have an impact as well too. So yes, I think you're spot on with that. I couldn't agree more. You know, with the increased and ongoing knowledge that you're gathering about your clients and what they're thinking about, how has that informed your growth strategy, your business development strategy, if you will, recognizing that you're not necessarily out there selling, so to speak, but does it show up in your digital landscape or some of the ways that you might communicate the kinds of clients that you best serve?

[B]

So as a part of our client advisory panel, they helped us formulate these Personas if you will. And it's not just a category of women. I mean, that's silly, right? It's, it's what you were talking about with what are the values of these people we want to work with, what are the demographics of these people? So we built all of those things out. So when, now when people go to our website, they can choose who they are in our Personas, and it just leads them to, here are the services that we feel we can do great work for you. And ultimately, we have a very high conversion rate. Once people get into our Personas, into making an inquiry, they see themselves. And we've put an immense amount of investment into search engine optimization since our founding. So we were doing, I like to say we were doing SEO before SEO was cool. It's not that we're not proactive because we certainly want to duplicate our best clients, but we're one of the blessed few that, that gets highly qualified, really refined, fits through the Google machine, and we've just been blessed by that.

[A]

Well, I think you make an interesting observation and I would absolutely encourage our listeners to check out the aspenwealth website. I think it's absolutely one of the best ones we see out there. It's interesting. It's your digital storefront and there's a lot happening in the digital landscape and some of it is sort of bright, shiny objects. And so firms are like, we have to be everywhere. And, you know, we need a TikTok account, which jury's out on that one. We'll see what happens there.

[B]

That will not be me.

[A]

Oh, come on, I can't wait. We'll see what happens. But all that said, I think, you know, getting that website, it's such a. It's still an incredibly powerful tool. You know, one of the areas of feedback that I often encourage with advisors is, you know, asking not just, not just that initial question of how did you hear about us? But, but the next question of what were all the different ways that you checked us out? Because I think you can get a lot of insight. What do we all do? Right? We all Google. We all, you know, that's one of the first places we go. And so, you know, this question even of where should I spend my time and dollars in that area, even if it's really to make sure the client experience is great, the reality is that even your existing clients, at times, they want to see you out there and that's how they're engaging with you. And, and to your point, earlier around the Henry's using that to, to drive attraction to the organization, but asking that next level question of not just, you know, how did you hear about us, but what were all the other ways that you may have conducted due diligence. And I think that can really inform where you might need to show up in the digital landscape.

[B]

Couldn't agree more. And that's so easy. Through Google Analytics, I mean we can see where people are coming in from, what are they reading, what pages are they going to, what is their map of how they explore our website. I find all that really fascinating. But if we're getting a lot of hits on a certain kind of content, doesn't it make sense that we should create more of that content because people are craving that information. It's really helped us a lot in how we think about everybody has limited time, limited resources. Where are ours best spent?

[A]

I want to ask you a question. We often get is around the frequency of soliciting feedback from clients and recognizing, just as you've described, there can be a lot of different ways to do that. But in terms of sort of formally surveying your clients, what's been the right frequency for you all?

[B]

Once a year on the dimensional survey. But when we meet with clients, we have a very, I call it a standardized agenda. It's just really for the planner's benefit to make sure that we've checked off all the boxes on, have we reviewed, have we reviewed, have we reviewed? But at the very end of the agenda of every meeting, it's what have we done well and how can we improve for you? It's a part of who we are. It's at the end of every interaction and it's critical information. It gives them a chance to say what's on their heart or on their minds. And I really appreciate that.

[A]

I love that and I. It sets an expectation internally, but it, you know, a muscle is only as good as how frequently you use it. And so, you know, assuming you're meeting with clients on a regular basis, like you get, you get pretty comfortable about leaning into that conversation and asking for that feedback if it's, if it's on the agenda. Deliberate practice, such an easy thing to do, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As you think about the future of the client experience and the kinds of clients that you're working with, is there anything that, you know, just from an evolutionary standpoint, you feel like probably going to start looking at this or head in this direction to just make sure we're staying really in front of the client experience.

[B]

It is overwhelming the amount of technology that has come available for advisory firms, yes. And we all want to be fresh and relevant and give our clients the best client experience. And actually that's something that is on the docket for our next client Advisory council because everything looks bright and shiny. Is it really, is it really what they would use? Is it really worth our investment and the chaos that it creates within your firm to adopt a new technology? What is most meaningful for them in terms of content and what we get from our clients is that our blogs and our newsletters that we send out once a month really do the trick for them. Now we have a very bifurcated clientele. We've got our retirees, soon to be retirees. I'm saying a lot of my peers and our young professionals and their content needs are very different. So that, that's our largest challenge right now is making sure we can meet the needs of both this sophisticated ultra clientele and sophisticated younger clientele. But their needs are just very different. So it just creates, I mean, we just have the need to create more content.

[A]

I think it's an excellent subject to take to an advisory council for sure. I wanted to ask you a little bit about the advisory council. We, you know, a couple of years ago in our study, we asked around, you know, how are you gathering feedback from clients and the use of an advisory board or advisory council, you might even call it a task force, whatever name you want to give. It wasn't as broadly used as some of the other, we'll call them more traditional ways, including those one on one conversations to solicit feedback. But the firms, we then asked them to rate in terms of effectiveness and really having an impact in informing their client experience. And the client Advisory council was absolutely top. But I think you and I would probably both agree that is not something you can do just sort of, you know, haphazardly to do well. So can you talk a little bit about what's the size of your council? How often do you get together what has been sort of the rules of engagement, if you will, that you've created with that group? We always get asked about that. So I'm going to pick your brain for a few minutes on them.

[B]

Well, the first council, I'm trying to think of what year we had. Well, let me back up. We do our strategic planning, we call it our charge meeting because we don't retreat in the summer, we do it in the summer because everybody seems to be a little bit more relaxed. Year end is just not a good time in my opinion because of tax planning and all the Things that we do for our clients. It's just not an efficient time to be thoughtful about what we're going to do for the upcoming year. Once we know what our strategic objectives are, then I can figure out, okay, these are our pain points. And we don't quite know how to get from here to there with whatever it is. Take it to the advisory council. Our clients will let us know what's important and what's not important. And their experience. So that has helped form what we bring to the council. We've changed how their reports are received. We've changed how their reports look. They're like, we don't really want all this stuff on here. It's amazing. If you just ask, you will receive. And now they really feel like their experience has been elevated from it. The numbers vary. Just Covid just threw a wrench in everything, as we all know. So we got off course, we got off off time. And so I like to have it annually. That is not how it's turned out. I would say more truthfully about every 18 months. But again, we're taking our strategic plan, saying, where are our pain points? Taking it to the client advisory panel. But we try to schedule that panel after we know we're going to have the latest dimensional survey results, because that's what we take to them. And now it's become an expectation. They want to see how we're doing. So God forbid if we ever come out of a year of not great results. But that's just part of the cadence now of that client advisory panel. We are trying to get into a cadence of you ask who and size 8 to 10 people. We've gotten as large as 12, but roll off three, bring on three to where we always have a fresh set of eyes.

[A]

I think that's great.

[B]

We like having a wide breadth of client. Not everybody's the same. It's not like taking our top 10 clients and saying, that's who's gonna be in the room.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's demographically, that's called sometimes an echo chamber. Yes, true. So it's demographically diverse. We have clients that have been with us for a really long time, and we have clients who are brand spanking new.

[A]

That's fantastic.

[B]

Their experiences are very different.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And some of the things that we used to do years ago, it's like, stop, start, continue. Well, we've stopped some of the things that we used to do years ago, but they referenced those in the meeting. And the new people are like, what is that? Well, maybe we need to Resurrect that if it.

[A]

Fair enough.

[B]

So it gives you a chance just to have a lot of different perspectives in the room.

[A]

How do you handle if you do get feedback or requests from the council that just are not doable or not quite a fit, assuming that that has happened. Maybe it hasn't. But that's one question I frequently get too. It's like, what do I do if I get. I'm asking for feedback. Right. But I may not be able to or willing to take action on everything that we get. So what do I do with that Corre? How would you answer that question?

[B]

Well, I think the initial part of the panel is just getting a lot of that feedback and receiving it, being open to receiving it without going into.

[A]

Problem solving mode or defensive mode. Defensive or whatever. Yeah.

[B]

So let's. Let's.

[A]

The ultimate in listening skills.

[B]

So let's get all of that stuff. Put it in, you know, in the inbox. And then I like typing out. We have a note taker. I like taking all the notes and all the suggestions. Who said what? These are all the ideas. I call it slinging spaghetti. Because when people are brainstorming and feeding off each other, you don't want to stop that energy.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Taking all of that. I send everything back to the council and say, I will follow up with you on what we are going to do and how we are going to do it and please let me know if. If I've missed the mark. So I follow up on those items. This has been tabled because blah, blah, blah. I mean, they're already in the inner weeds of our company. If I really want them to feel valued, then I need to tell them why something may not be that they.

[A]

Need to be heard.

[B]

Yeah, they need to be heard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can have your say. You may not get your way. But there's a great. I appreciate the suggestion and here's why I think it would be a challenge for Aspen at this time for whatever it is. We really don't get a lot of crazy in that. But there have been a couple. That's okay.

[A]

Challenges you.

[B]

Well. And it's coming from a place of love.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[B]

They feel confident in suggesting it, so I need to feel confident in receiving it.

[A]

And I think you alluded to this a moment ago, too. We often, you know, we will hear from advisors who have counsels that say, you know, the primary focus of having that advisory board or that advisory council is to Absolutely. Just as you've been describing, to get super candid feedback about what are we doing well and what should we can, you know, keep stop start. Right. As we often say. But they do find that clients because they are getting, you know, you're asking them, they're getting engaged around sort of the inner workings of the organization. They start thinking about who do I know that would also benefit from working with my advisor. And so again, you don't. That's not what you want to lead in terms of the reasons for having a counsel. But we often hear that that has been a. That's a nice byproduct, if you will, that it actually generates some referrals for the business.

[B]

I have the data behind it. Yes, they are our biggest champions, our biggest advocates. They feel like they know us like no one else can know us as a company. They know our values, they know what we stand for better than anyone else. So they are our walking billboards and we are blessed by some great advocates for us.

[A]

Well, I will, I'll say to our audience and you are a client of dimensional, you can reach out to our practice management team or your regional director. But we have a practice point one pager that really I think being springs together a lot of the best practices of what it means to have an advisory board. Because I think both of us would agree. Even if you're only getting together every 12 or 18 months or so, like you really want to do it right, you want to be super purposeful about it, even thinking about how long is the meeting itself, where is the meeting happen? And then of course, if you've been describing who's on the council, all those things have to be incredibly purposeful. And so we have a one pager that we're always happy to share out that I think brings together some of the best practices around that. So for those listening that want are thinking about this as a vehicle for soliciting client feedback, we can maybe share a little bit of those insights with them.

[B]

So I would even suggest that people think about it a little differently in having multiple councils. I mentioned we have our young professional counsel. But if you're really wanting to focus on a business owner segment, bring in your business owners, have a conversation just with the business owners on the deliverables, on the services. I mean they may have some ideas for services that we could provide that we haven't even thought about. You're not going to know if you don't ask. So think about it as opposed to just so broad, maybe that's where you start. But don't be afraid to be more specific based on your business's Personas.

[A]

Agreed. We often find that advisors are, you know, they start out, we'll call it an accommodating advisor for a particular type of client. You know, they get one, they get two, they get three, they get five. And so when they start thinking about, well, who are the types of clients we most want to work with and how do we really lean into that? Look at, look at your current client base and you may, you likely have. I'm not even, I'm going to use the word now, but we're not going to use it a niche client because hopefully we're past the days of referring to, like working with women as a niche client base.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We are absolutely past that to the point where I'm probably, you know, get upset about that. But all that to say, you know, look at your current client base and you may actually have an opportunity sitting right there in front of you because you've been accommodating a certain kind of client within the organization that if you were to become purposeful about it, consider a counsel around that, solicit their feedback, get their input, could actually be a fantastic growth opportunity.

[B]

We start our strategic planning meetings by saying, I want every person here from our juniors up. Who are your three favorite clients and why? They all have common themes. They may not all fit, you know, one of your Personas perfectly, but it's so important that you look at that and say, okay, well, this is, this is the psychographic of who we love to work with. Let's really focus in on this.

[A]

And it's okay to account for revenue and aum and all of a lot of. Right. We're, we're for profit businesses.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I think asking those questions and being okay with the idea of, yes, revenue, you know, are they going to take what services of ours are they going to take advantage of? Those are all really important. But when you can go next level and it's like, why do you really enjoy working with that client? What do they bring as much as you bring to them? I think that's where you get those true Personas in our experience.

[B]

So those are the, the greatest people to start your counsel.

[A]

They are, they are. And they'll. And they will, they will be truthful.

[B]

Yes, they will.

[A]

Painfully so sometimes. But it's great. Well, I think that's a wonderful spot to end our conversation. As I mentioned, we. There's so much we could talk about and I just, I think it's really interesting and exciting to see how you have thought very carefully about the clients you want to work with. You know, certainly many new, new organizations. It's like anything with a pulse. Right? And that's okay. But at some point, get really purposeful about who you most want to work with because that informs where you spend your time and your resources. It's, it's just good business planning, if.

[B]

You will, and it makes your job a whole lot more enjoyable.

[A]

That's right. Which, that should be the case, I think, all across. So. So it's been wonderful. Thank you for your perspective, Helen. It's been wonderful.

[B]

I appreciate your having me.

[A]

For those of you that would love to to learn a little bit more about Helen and the work that she's doing. Definitely. Aspen Wealth Management is a great website to check out. You can find Helen on LinkedIn as well too. And for those of you that are interested in understanding how Dimensional works with investment professionals and advisors really around the globe, you can definitely check us [e-mail] and with that, we will catch you next time.

[C]

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