Podcast Summary:
Managing Your Practice
Episode: From Growth Within to Success Throughout: Nurturing Employee Development for Firm Prosperity
Host: Katherine Williams (Dimensional Fund Advisors)
Guests: Mark Johnson (Founder/CEO, Wealth Architects) and Rob Greenman (Chief Growth Officer, Vista Capital Partners)
Release Date: July 19, 2024
Overview
This episode explores how successful financial advisory firms cultivate employee development to fuel sustained organizational growth. Katherine Williams, Head of Practice Management at Dimensional, leads a rich discussion with Mark Johnson and Rob Greenman—both industry leaders experienced in building and managing teams capable of scaling and lasting through generational transitions. The conversation centers on growth mindsets, skill development pathways, incentives, and the cultural fabric required for prosperity.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Growth Challenges and Firm Foundations
[00:05–05:53]
- Both Wealth Architects and Vista Capital began with founder-driven growth:
- Mark Johnson: Early focus was survival and transferring trust from the brokerage model ("...I was one of the first private wealth advisors to go independent and was like the first penguin off the cliff to see if I would get eaten. And I didn’t." [04:24])
- Refined client archetype over time, prioritizing relationships and values alignment.
- Rob Greenman: Founders' dynamic business development led to "hockey stick" early growth but required new thinking as the firm expanded.
- “...all of a sudden you get to ten, you have to start thinking differently.” [03:26]
2. Shifting Growth Responsibilities & The Soccer Team Analogy
[07:47–10:38]
- Firms must transition from founder-centric business development to distributed responsibility as they scale.
- Rob compares growth roles to soccer positions:
- “If you have six of the ten people on your soccer team who are goalies, you’re probably not going to be scoring very many goals...” [07:59]
- Industry shifting from “sales-first” ingrained from brokerage days to a modern model where client advice and service precede developing business development skills.
3. Embedding the ‘Why’ into Growth and Career Pathways
[11:18–16:45]
- Mark: Growth must be rooted in purpose and vision, not just financial incentive.
- “Growth only matters in the context of what are you trying to accomplish.” [11:24]
- Desire to build a legacy firm with continuity, hence, growth is for future generations and clients’ long-term security, not just immediate gain.
- Rob underscores gratitude for inheriting client relationships:
- “What growth really is… you’re providing those same opportunities for the people behind you. Because without growth, I wouldn’t be where I am today.” [13:45]
- Both guests highlight the importance of alignment, gratitude, and strong culture, especially as firms move from founder to second and third generation leadership.
4. Developing Lead Advisors: Mindset, Skills, & Activity
[18:30–28:00]
- Lead advisor roles demand both technical advice and business development.
- Rob emphasizes activity over mere skills:
- Vista tracks “growth points”—measuring team-based business development activity with gamification to foster engagement.
- “...let’s gamify this and just track the activities and trust that... if we do the work now, we will get the results...” [21:07]
- Focus on giving employees psychological safety to try and fail as they develop.
- Mark breaks success into three key traits:
- Influence: Building trust and advocating for client needs (“You have actually more influence now with the client than I do...” [23:59])
- Courage: Stepping into challenges and conversation (“The number one characteristic I think of a great advisor is courage...” [25:27])
- Activity: Consistency and patience matter more than instant results (“We measure our success by are we doing the best that we’re capable of and doing what is in our control...” [26:39])
5. Incentives and Rewards: Encouraging Desired Behaviors
[28:00–34:33]
- Both firms avoid “eat-what-you-kill” models and instead prioritize team-based rewards.
- Mark: Profit pool is liberally shared; everyone participates if growth targets are met. Incentives drive culture and must align with core values.
- “...incentives will drive the behavior that you want, and it'll often drive the behavior you don’t want if you’re not very clear about why you’re doing it...” [29:08]
- Rob: No “book of business” concept; team-based bonuses for new client referrals. Goal is for everyone to feel connected to growth.
- “...whenever there’s a client referral that comes through...that entire team participates equally in a small bonus.” [33:17]
- Both are wary of incentives that erode collaboration.
6. Persistent Challenges & Lessons as Leaders
[34:33–37:55]
- Rob: Managing expectations as growth goals get bigger; maintaining engagement and patience.
- “...at times, when you face some big numbers and you don’t hit them, that can be deflating to people...we have to be persistent, but we have to be patient too.” [35:28]
- Mark: Law of large numbers, need for long-term thinking, and the time required to enact change.
- “...by the time you wake up to the problem, you need multiple years to solve the problem and get the ship right.” [36:17]
- “It just takes years to do it...” [37:35]
Notable Quotes & Moments
“I think the biggest thing for me was just realizing that this business can be a wonderful business if you’re working with people you want to serve. And it can be a kind of a nightmare business...if you’re dealing with folks that don’t agree with you philosophically or you don’t love and respect them.”
— Mark Johnson [06:29]
“Our industry had this whole thing backwards...We get them to cut their teeth in sales and then they learn the craft...and what we’re doing is we’re flipping that entire model on its head.”
— Rob Greenman [09:28]
“Growth, to Mark's point, it’s for the future generations. It’s not necessarily even for us. It’s for this future firm that we want to be.”
— Rob Greenman [15:44]
“The number one characteristic I think of a great advisor is courage, because it’s courage to step into difficult conversations.”
— Mark Johnson [25:27]
“For us to focus just on the bottom end of the funnel and tell people, hey, you need to go get results, it’s a little bit, like, not fair to them, especially young people in career.”
— Rob Greenman [20:36]
“While the task at hand is growth, for my role, I’m very protective of wanting to make sure we do things in the right way that does not erode culture as well.”
— Rob Greenman [32:35]
Timestamps for Important Segments
| Time | Segment Description | |----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:05 | Introduction & episode setup (Katherine Williams) | | 02:29 | Mark and Rob introduce their firms | | 04:24 | Early business development experiences | | 06:59 | Client selection philosophies & impact on business growth | | 07:47 | “Hockey stick” growth and scaling challenges | | 09:28 | Business development: old model vs. today’s approach | | 11:18 | Defining growth purpose and cultural context | | 13:45 | Growth for future generations; gratitude in leadership | | 18:30 | Developing lead advisors: activities, skill-building | | 21:07 | “Growth points” and gamifying activity at Vista | | 22:53 | Influence, courage, and activity as advisor traits | | 28:00 | Tackling incentives and aligning them with culture | | 33:17 | Team-based client referral incentives at Vista | | 34:33 | Persistent challenges in sustaining growth | | 36:17 | Long-term mindset; patience in firm evolution |
Tone and Language
The conversation is collegial, frank, and pragmatic, with a focus on practical leadership lessons, gratitude, and humility. Both guests provide nuanced, experience-based insights while engaging in an optimistic yet realistic dialogue about the difficulties—and rewards—of nurturing firm-wide growth.
Summary Takeaways
- Firms must evolve from founder-driven to team-driven growth as they scale.
- A clear sense of purpose (“why”) underpins successful and sustainable firm expansion.
- Lead advisor development requires a culture that values influence, courage, and persistent activity.
- Incentives must reinforce collaboration and cultural values, not individual silos.
- Patience, long-term thinking, and a relentless focus on culture make or break generational transitions and prosperity.
- Celebrating “at bats” (activity, effort, learning) is as critical as actual wins, especially for developing professionals.
For more resources and the complete library, visit Dimensional’s website.