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Managing Your Practice
Leading with Purpose: How Your “Why” Drives Growth in a Financial Advisory Firm
00:43:21
In this episode, Gordon Bernhardt and Scott Oeth discuss how storytelling and incorporating their own personal “why” into various interactions can support deeper client relationships and drive growth in their advisory firms. Bernhardt, a wealth...
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- [00:06]
A
Hi everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My name is Catherine Williams. I am head of practice management here at Dimensional Fund Advisors. And for a number of years now we have been both through our data as well as our work with advisors, helping business owners and advisors think about delivering the best client experience they can to their clients. And of course, how can they potentially continue to grow their business, particularly through client referrals, which happens for most advisors. And that's a little bit of what we're going to talk about today. When we look at our high performing firms in particular in our study, we see a couple of strong characteristics when it comes to client relationships. They absolutely know their own personal why. Of course the firm level has a why. Why do we exist? What are our values? But every advisor who is on the front lines with clients has that understanding of their own personal why. And they're able to use that knowledge to connect with their clients, deepen those relationships and potentially gather more clients if they're looking to grow their business. So I'm really excited about this subject. It comes up a lot in our work with advisors. And I've got two incredible gentlemen with me here today that are going to help talk through this, give their own direct perspective around this. As you do think about what drives you as an advisor. Why are you in this profession? What allows you to connect deeply with your clients, I think is something that's really, really important in our work with firms. And so looking forward to talking about that today. And so with that, it is my pleasure to introduce you to Gordon Bernhardt. He is a wealth manager and principal with Madera Wealth Management. Gordon, it's great to have you with us today.
- [01:45]
B
Thank you, Katherine. It's a pleasure to be here and I appreciate my partnership with dimensional since 1998. So thank you.
- [01:52]
A
I love that old days. We should talk about that soon.
- [01:55]
B
Yes, indeed.
- [01:57]
A
We also have joining with us today we have Scott Oath, who is wealth manager and principal for Cahill Financial Advisors. Scott, it's great to have you with us.
- [02:07]
C
Thanks Kathryn. Happy to be here. And I might not go back quite as far, but think I first started working with dimensional in 2003.
- [02:14]
A
Well, we know from our conferences, we know from our work with advisors, even our studies, that advisors love to hear from other advisors. And so that's really what's at the heart of our convers today. Both of you have thought very carefully about what brought you to this business and how that informs your care of clients. But also what is it about your own personal story that you bring to Life with your clients, and in some ways, potentially maybe even helps grow the business a little bit. As part of that process, I would really love to just start with asking each of you, and I'll start with Gordon. What brought you to this industry? What was the process to decide? I want to be a wealth advisor to my clients.
- [02:53]
B
I didn't grow up learning or knowing that much about money. I grew up on a farm in Nebraska, and it was a great place. It certainly formed my values, the values that I have today. But I came to Washington, dc, Worked on Capitol Hills for a couple of years, knew after that experience that I wasn't cut out for politics. So I finished my education at the University of Virginia, got my cpa, and I started working in public accounting and later the corporate world. And after some personal transition that I was facing in 1992, I said, you know, I'm not living my why. I didn't feel fulfilled in doing what I was doing as a CPA. Clearly, we need CPAs. But for me, I didn't feel like I was fulfilled or I was again living my why. Didn't really know my why yet at that point, but I had thought that maybe financial services would be the way for me to. To help people, to make an impact in people's lives. So. So I entered the financial services industry in 1992, and over the next two years, I worked for two different companies that had their own proprietary products and commissions. And after two years of that, I hated what I was seeing. I saw the conflicts of interest that proprietary products and commissions had, and I said, you know, I don't think I can be in this industry, and if that's what it's all about. But fortunately, I learned about the fee only world, and I started my firm in 1994, and it's been a great ride ever since. Grew Bernhardt Wealth Management to. Two years ago, I sold my firm to Modera Wealth Management and proud to be part of the Modera team.
- [04:37]
A
Scott, what did that look like for you? And what kind of led you ultimately to Cahill?
- [04:41]
C
I guess, you know, if I trace it back. My father was always interested in investing in personal finance. He was a family doctor, but he talked a lot about budgeting and making good decisions around money and the time. I remember he liked to read Money magazine, and he religiously watched the Louis Rukeyser show on public TV with the stock market update at the end of the week. And so I think there's a fair amount of that. And I had a really great couple, great teachers I had a really good economics teacher in high school, and as I was trying to figure out what I was going to do and what the next steps were, that interested me. And I went to college thinking I was going to study economics. And then I got there and found finance and realized, oh, this is sort of like the applied version of economics. And the funny thing is, when I was younger, I hated math. But all of a sudden this was exciting to me. It was how you can use these skills as a tool. So I did a corporate finance major and hadn't even really heard of what a financial advisor was. Certainly not a financial Planner or a CFP. You know, this is the early 90s, going all the way through a bachelor's degree and came out and then shortly after did hear about the concept of being a personal financial advisor. And I knew I wanted to be in the investments field and was kind of tracking to do an mba. And when I learned about this, I'm so glad I did because I took a turn at that. This is really the right mix for me. It's using this analytical problem solving and studying these things of interest, like the economy and markets and, and the problem and puzzling of tax planning and estate planning, but working with real people. And it was just so much more interesting to me to have that focus be towards people using these skill sets instead of, you know, towards companies and balance sheets and income statements. And so once I found out about it, it was very interesting. Seemed like very interesting and meaningful work. Love the idea of the entrepreneurial side of it, you know, and being able to, you know, build your practice, your business over time.
- [06:33]
A
And we're going to talk in a moment more specifically about a couple of areas of interest, passions that both of you have, but you've already, both of you have tapped in what I would say is sort of the. That baseline, which is having a desire to, whether it's as a business entrepreneur, as an advisor, to have an interest in helping people and their. In their financial lives and finding the path for that. So, you know, certainly I love hearing both of your backgrounds on that and what's driven you with that. Scott, I think particularly interesting is your interest, your work and effort in what I would just call wilderness survival, which could at some days might mean the office.
- [07:12]
B
Right? That's right.
- [07:14]
A
We will clarify what we mean by wilderness survival, but talk a little bit about that particular passion. How did you get into that? And then of course, we're going to, you know, talk a little bit more about how that informs even the work that you're doing.
- [07:27]
C
So it's. It's kind of an interesting hobby. I grew up in an outdoorsy family, so right from day one, you know, being outdoors, hiking, camping, canoeing there again, my dad especially is a big influence there. My mom had grown up at a farm, and so, like, the outdoors, actually, the physical home I grew up in had a forest right out the back door that was kind of my playground. So always loved nature in the outdoors. I had a wonderful experience going all the way through scouting and still have been, you know, an adult volunteer my whole life, really. I never got out of it, so that was a big part of it, you know, the. The scout type skills that you learn. And I. I love that, you know, chasing the badges and learning techniques. So there's part of it with that. And I also always loved history. And so I love learning about frontiersmen and pioneers and voyagers and Native Americans and how people lived in simpler times closer to the land and, you know, live very close to nature. And. And so that was fascinating to me and maybe one real specific influence. You know, I was born on an Air Force base, Vietnam era, and. And on the bookshelf, my dad had his issued Air Force survival handbook, and I poured over that thing forwards and backwards a million times as a kid, looking at the diagrams of how to build shelters and how to boil in bamboo sections or make rafts or, you know, navigate by the stars. And it was just super fascinating to me.
- [08:52]
A
All things that we use day to day.
- [08:54]
C
That's right. That's right.
- [08:57]
A
But no, I love that. I really love that. And Gordon, for you, as we've been talking or we're talking previously, certainly we're going to talk about the Camino de Santiago and that endeavor, that trek. But if we could start for a moment, just in case our audience doesn't know what that is, do you mind describing what it is? And then we're going to talk a little bit about what drew you to that endeavor.
- [09:23]
B
Yes, the Camino de Santiago is an ancient pilgrimage. It's one of the. It's. I guess it's one of the top five, I think, pilgrimages in the world. Its roots go back to the Apostle James. At that time, Christians from all over Europe would walk to pay homage to the miracles and to the apostle James. So, you know, in the old days, of course, it was part of your Christian faith to walk that. Today, that's not, as, you know, it's not as important. Certainly some people do walk it for, again, their. Their faith. But there are. I Met agnostics. When I walked, I met Buddhists. So there are people of all faiths that walk this, and I think they're just drawn to kind of the history of it. But roughly last year or so, there were over 446,000 people that walked some portion of the Camino de Santiago. And there are multiple routes that one can walk again, when I walked in 2018, I met somebody who started walking from his home country of Austria. Somebody else had started from Netherlands. So obviously they walked further than I did. I walked the more popular, what they call the Camino Francis that starts just across the Pyrenees in France, and you cross the Pyrenees at day one, and you enter Spain and walk across kind of northern Spain to the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela. But I was drawn to it. My sister had pointed it out to me at one point, and I said, I started reading. I bought books about it, and I read people's story, their own journals about it. And I said, this sounds intriguing. And around the same time, Emilio Estevez and Martin Sheen. Emilio Estevez directed a movie that his dad starred in called the Way. And I saw that, and everything that I was reading, everything that I was seeing, just said, this should be a really cool, cool experience. So, again, I wasn't really looking for anything. I just looked at this as, this is kind of historic. It would be a lot easier to walk again. I've walked 618 miles. That would be far easier to walk 618 miles in Spain than to walk the Pacific Coast Trail or the Appalachian Trail or the Continental Divide. So I was drawn to it, knowing that, again, I could. I could have this, hopefully, a great experience over a month. And so Therefore, finally, in 2016, I said, 2018 is the year I'm going to do it. And I did it. And it was the best experience of my life.
- [11:49]
A
What I love about both of you, we have an example here of some of. This is like, this is just kind of how I grew up. Right? And of course, you could absolutely put Gordon in that same category in the sense that. And you talk a lot about this in your book, about just your upbringing in Nebraska and how even at that time, not realizing that was going to potentially lead for this or inform this opportunity that you had, but also discovering this initiative at some point in life and making a commitment to it. So however we get to that personal why, so to speak, whether it feels like it's part of our DNA or it's something that we sort of discover along the way, I think really impactful. Either way. And so I'm curious, and I'd love for both of you to speak to this. When did these personal endeavors, these personal opportunities, the time that you were spending on the wilderness survival, the time that you were spending to both train and execute on, as they say, to walk the Camino, Was there a moment where you started correlating some of that to your own professional growth as an advisor, as a leader? Or maybe it was sort of always there. But I'm curious, Scott, as you think about that, was there a time where you really did begin to see sort of the relationship between this personal passion of yours and how it was showing up in the business?
- [13:05]
C
Yeah, maybe two levels, Catherine. I think first of all, some of it with the just always being there. You know, like I mentioned, I grew up in Boy Scouts and they've long used since day one, the outdoors is really the laboratory for the whole program. And people think the program's about earning different merit badges. That's part of it. But it's about leadership and developing leaders. So, you know, as, as a kid, at times when I wasn't really all that great of a student or that focused on what was being taught, class I was obsessed. I love the Scouting thing. So some of that was higher, hardwired in me from pretty early on, you know, in my progression to Eagle Scout. And I think, you know, professionally kind of got me addicted to chasing, learning and ranks and badges and things like that. But maybe the, the bigger question, you're really drawing the tie with what we do. There's, there's lots of elements. I think it's natural for people to draw analogies between their hobbies and their passions in their work life. You know, you mentioned golf. I've heard of many, many times people talk about lessons learned on the golf course and how it carries over to work. So I, I think that's somewh. The wilderness survival stuff that I do activities is kind of part of a bigger just I guide wilderness trips and take people on wilderness adventures. And there is so much that goes into preparation and communication and managing expectations and dealing with adversity and self reliance. And that being a wilderness guide, while it's a different technical subject matter, okay, how do we run this set of rapids or how do we stay warm on a night when it's 30 below zero is different than should we do a Roth conversion or can you retire yet? But the actual act, the leadership part, the guiding part, is I just see it as a direct parallel. You know, you have a skill set you've Trained on, you've read about, you've studied, you've tested on, you've been through it many, many times before. The person you're guiding or you're leading, this is their first time and it's uncertain territory. And so there's just, I've found there to be, you know, just direct parallel between being someone's wilderness guide and being a financial guide.
- [15:11]
A
The adjectives and the verbs that you just used. If we did not know that we were making a comparison, so to speak, between wilderness guide and sitting with a client and helping them figure out their financial well being, the words would be the same, so to speak. Yes, that, like you said that prep and Gordon, I know you saw a lot of that correlation between your own prep for the Camino and how that began to really inform your engagement with clients.
- [15:36]
B
Yes. And for me, the probably the journey wasn't as simple, you know, as Scott's. And Scott's has. It's complex, but it's really at his core, I didn't have necessarily that, but as I was building my business, the things that started to influence the power of stories or tying that into that was really just what I heard in some conferences about storytelling. And initially I kind of blew it off. You know, I said, that sounds kind of too soft for me. It's. I poo pooed it. I just said, you know, hey, at the heart, like, like Scott said, let's, you know, when do we convert a Roth ira? You know, are you on track to retire? I felt like those were the important things. But I was gradually learning, you know, the power of storytelling, and I started to embrace it. You know, I braced it, you know, through social media for one, is that I was rejecting the possibility of connecting with clients on social media. I just said, my life is my private, is my private life. It's nobody else's business. But again, as I saw the power of stories, I said, hey, I should connect with stories because if I share something that's authentic to me, you know, and it's not a kind of selfies, it's not my dinner plate, it's, it's. It's just things that are the hobbies and interests that you have so they can see how important family is, so they can see if I'm out on a hike, you know, that they understand a little bit more about me. And then I could find out things about them too, which led to, again, a deeper conversation. And then I took that and I started interviewing business owners and executives to help them leverage their story. And I saw the power of connection. When you ask people to share their story, you develop a deeper bond. So I love asking clients, I love asking business owners, I love asking employees questions that get to the heart of who they are. And actually, if you don't mind, one of my favorite questions to ask anybody is to ask them to describe an object of great personal importance. What I find with that single question, it's a hard question to answer, but I've had people that have started crying, you know, once they started to share the object, you know, and there's sometimes it's a really obscure thing. One CEO said it described a rock, you know, that was important him. Another CEO described a coffee mug and why that was important to him. But then there were other things it's about, again, letters from a mom or a dad that were impactful. So just these little, you know, personal possessions or whatever. And so that one question developed stronger connections than any other other question I asked. And then I could start asking about, okay, tell me about your assets and net worth and stuff like that. So, again, the power of storytelling, building deeper connections is. Was. I saw the power of it, and I started gravitating toward it.
- [18:46]
A
Sky, I see your head nodding as Gordon's describing that storytelling and making that connection. Same for you.
- [18:54]
C
Yeah, I think so. You know, and I've certainly heard that, and I see Gordon's passion, and I think I've experienced it, and I also think I could get to be a lot better at it at the same time. So I think there's absolutely a lot there.
- [19:07]
A
Yeah. And I think, you know, in our work with teams and leadership teams, advisory teams, if you will, even around the globe, it is pen to paper a little bit. Right. Really starting to put things down and really think through, like, what is your personal story. And then it's, you know, and this is where everyone starts squirming in their seat when the consultant in the room says, now, we're going to role play. But it's a little bit of practicing it. Right. And maybe it's even practicing with a highly trusted client, so to speak, or. But, you know, getting comfortable doing that and building that muscle, you know, as Craig Warman would say, the deliberate practice, if you will. And so anyone listening today, that's thinking, oh, I got to do that. Yes, yes, you do. You, you know, being. Being prepared around that. So, you know, Adam Grant said, if we create networks with the sole intention of getting something, we won't succeed. We can't pursue the benefits of networks for investments in it has to be benefits come from meaningful activities and relationships. And that really stuck with me as I was preparing for our time today because. And you've already used the word authentic, Gordon. I think at the heart of what we're talking about here, you find your personal, why you think about how you want to connect with prospects and clients, but that, that authenticity has to absolutely be in play at all times in our experience. And so as you do think about specifically engaging with clients, how do you, you know, it probably feels very natural for you both, but as you're even, you know, someone's listening today, thinking about like, okay, how do I strengthen this? How do I make this connection? What would you say relative to just being sure that it really does land in an authentic way and has the impact that you're looking for?
- [20:51]
B
I'll start off if that's okay with you, Scott. So I can remember starting in my career, you know, I heard, I don't know who said it, but they said you got two ears and one mouth, so you should listen twice as much as you do talk. And that's probably even talking too much in some respects. So I, I believed in, in that type of concept. And listening, you know, is important, is an important step into building trust. Then it's a quality of the questions you ask, what are your assets? What's your cash flow? Again, those are important things we need to understand to serve our clients. But by being authentic, reaching out to them, truly showing that you are caring and interested in, in what their goals are, again, and asking those quality questions are an important part of them. Being engaged with your clients.
- [21:41]
C
Yeah, I guess for myself, you know, on the networking side of this, as a financial advisor for a long time, I was very sensitive to it. I did not want to be someone who, in my fun areas or my hobby areas or my passion areas was viewed as like, oh, look out, here comes Scott. He's going to try and sign me up as a financial planning client or something like that.
- [22:02]
A
Or even worse, he's going to leave me in the wilderness if I don't hire him.
- [22:05]
B
Right.
- [22:05]
C
Or vice versa. Or vice versa. Right. So I, I kept the things very separate for a long time and just portrayed a pretty professional front and didn't really open up on that. And I was at a dinner once, I remember a charitable deal and woman sitting next to me asked me what I did and says, I'm a financial advisor and fee only firm and all this good stuff. And then it kind of came. I said, yeah, and I have a hobby Business for bull moose patrol. I take people in wilderness trips. And she's like, wait, what? What? And she started asking me more. She's like, that's what you need to say first. And what do you do? You take people winter camping.
- [22:41]
B
What?
- [22:41]
C
Tell me about that. And you teach wilderness survival. And so I thought, huh, okay, maybe there's something to that. So I did start opening the doors more. And I think, you know, digital media was probably part of it. And it's not something that I've pushed. I don't necessarily make a big deal out of it on either side, but I seem to, I think probably have a higher profile or visibility actually in Wilderness Circle. You know, not everyone wants to go sleep in a snowbank in northern Minnesota in January or go hike 50 miles over the mountains or whatever. But when there is that crossover, I think there's a few things, you know, you hear about people want to do business with people they know like and trust. That's an old time business saying. And I think getting to spend that time together and I tell you, if you really want to get to know someone, okay, you can have a cup of coffee, you can have lunch. But when you spend an expended period of time, you know, eating, sleeping, traveling, working hard, physically unplugged, like the old music albums, unplugged version, right away from all this technology, in a very basic way, you get a pretty quick sense of how someone deals with adversity, what their personality is really like, how they put a smile on their face and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Do they get a little irritable? So I think all those things come together. So there is some crossover there. It's more of a pull, it's more of just a visibility. It's not necessarily a push for me.
- [23:57]
A
Well, and to reinforce what you were describing around what clients value. We know from our global investor study which has had over 100,000 end clients participate in that study. It's a white labeled survey tool that advisors can leverage, clients of ours can leverage. And when we ask questions around what they seek and value the most in their relationship with their advisor, one of the top reasons for years is my advisor works with people like me. And so there's two ways to look at that. There's absolutely, you've created a connection in terms of your value proposition and the ideal client for you to take care of, to speak, but where they can feel a connection with you, I see, you know, we're sort of sitting on the same side of the table. And we see that as really, really powerful. You know, you have to have investment acumen. They care about performance. They want to know. You know, they want to be able to sleep at night. But when we. That. That really shows up very strongly from a data standpoint within our study as well, so. Makes sense. Yeah. And both of you remind me of a story that I heard years ago, and I probably won't do it total justice, but this idea of when you're getting ready to meet with a prospective client and how as advisors, we may at times maybe often ask that prospect at some point to say, hey, you know, maybe bring in a copy of your last financial plan or, you know, documentation different things like that. But instead, maybe consider asking them to bring in three pictures of the three things that are most important to them. And the story that was told is around this young gentleman. He had just signed a professional sports contract. He suddenly went from probably $5 in his bank account to a lot of money in his bank account. And he'd really been struggling to find an advisor. And this particular advisor asked him to bring in three pictures, and he brought in a picture of a palm tree, he brought in a picture of his mom, and he brought in a picture of a park bench. And the palm tree was to say, enjoy this. How many people in their 20s get a pro contract with a lot of money attached to it? You should absolutely enjoy it. The picture of her mom was to communicate, single mom, raise me. Let's make sure mom's taken care of no matter what. And the park bench was to convey that he had been homeless for big portions of his upbringing. So his relationship with money is deeply informed by that. And so I think even as what both of you are describing, finding ways to pull that stories, those stories and those insights out of clients, that is most important. Right. It's one thing to be able to talk about these passions, to talk about these things that connect us at a human level. But be sure, as you said, Gordon, you're listening as much as you're asking. And really empowering those prospects and those clients to tell their own story, I think is really powerful.
- [26:44]
B
Yes.
- [26:45]
A
Yeah. Well, Gordon, you captured your experience in a book. And by the way, I get asked a lot about, should I write a book? The advisors. I don't think it's an easy thing to do, is what I usually respond. But talk a little bit about, you know, having written Buen Camino, what a Hike Through Spain taught me about investing in life. So you absolutely are making the connection. Did you know you were going to write a book before you embarked on this. How did that all come together for you all accidentally?
- [27:13]
B
Because it's like. Like I said, you know, when I made the commitment to walk, you know, the Camino in 2018, you know, I thought I was just going to go on a hike. You know, I didn't expect it to be as impactful as it was. I certainly met people who were looking for something in their life and they might have lost a loved one. And it's natural, you know, you're now trying to redefine who you are. So a lot of people walk the Camino and search for answers. I felt complete. I felt like I had a great life. But there is a saying on the Camino, that the Camino gives you what you need, not what you want. So if I started walking saying, hey, I want this from it, you know, that may not be something I get, but I was open to whatever was there. So. So again, I started walking. Didn't have any expectations of anything occurring. Met some wonderful people that were an incredible part of the journey. But again, some of the greater insights I had on the. My. My pilgrimage were just simply walking alone. There is something powerful about, I think, walking that, that, that steady gait, you know, hearing your. Your shoes hit the gravel and continue walking, and things come to your mind when you do that. So, again, I had this, a great experience, didn't think much about it. Came back to the United States after I had walked for 35 days and 618 miles, and I. I started going through my photos and I found myself reliving the Camino. And it wasn't just in that weeks after it. This was happening a year, two years, three years later, that the Camino was still giving me gifts. And, you know, there were realizations, you know, so at some point, probably around year two, I said, you know, this summit was so personal, it was so impactful that I knew I wanted to share some of these insights. And so I called. You know, the title may not have been well chosen in the sense that there are a lot of books titled Buen Camino. I didn't look at the time, but Buen Camino means Happy Trails. You know, this is one of the realizations I had a couple years later was it. It means Happy Trails. And so I realized that whatever I do, I want to give. I want to wish everybody that I meet, clients, you know, the CEOs and business owners that I network with, you know, a random police person I meet on the street, I carry. You mentioned the, you know, kind of, again, having something. The symbol of the. Of the Camino is a scallop shell. So anytime I'm traveling on business, I'll have the scallop shell on my laptop backpack. If I'm out hiking, I put the scallop shell on the back. And every now and then, somebody recognizes we have this opportunity to connect. So. But buen camino means, again, have a great journey. So everybody's on a journey through life. You know, whatever their journey is, it's a unique. It's their unique journey. So I think the best thing that I can ever do in terms of a greeting, you know, is to say buen Camino. So every email, every letter I send out, I don't use best regards or sincerely, it ends with buen Camino. And my book ends with the same way wishing everybody that they understand their journey.
- [30:49]
A
With that scallop shell being such an iconic symbol of the Camino, I can see where having it on your backpack, having it on your luggage, someone sees that there's an instant connection and there's a prompt for them to say, oh, hey, tell. Let's talk about that. Right? And similar to, you know, Scott, as you were describing, you know, yes, you are a financial advisor, you help people with their planning, their investments, but you also have this really compelling wilderness survival guide and, and, you know, endeavor that is absolutely, you know, people are. They were like, what? And by the way, why do you call it bull moose patrol? Does that mean we're going to go look for bull mooses? Like, let's talk about that. Like, there's a lot to immediately unpack. And I think that's a lot of what we're talking about here today. If you're an advisor that's looking to engage deep, more deeply with your existing clients, get new clients, or. And maybe just figure out, like, how do I tell my story? You can get to the financial planning, you can get to the investment advice, for sure. And you don't want to hide. I think both of you have really been very clear about this. Like, it's not about smoke and mirrors per se at all. It's more of what's. How do we connect? And then we can go to a deeper conversation, a more personal conversation, honestly, about someone's money. It doesn't get much more personal than that. And so how do you lay track for that as you go forward? I think it's really powerful.
- [32:06]
C
Yeah, I think showing some passion, a bit of who you are, even if that client or prospective client doesn't really care about it at all. You know, sometimes I joke, you look at other financial advisor bios and most of them say they have a kid, a couple kids, they go to this or that church, they went to this or that school and they enjoy playing golf and reading books or something like that. It's like, well, okay, I like all those things, but it doesn't really tell you much about that person. It's pretty common. And so having some element that either they do engage with because they like the same thing. Sure. That's, that's wonderful. Or just, oh, wow, tell me about that, Gordon. What was that like? That's incredible. And you're the type of person that would choose to do that. That's, you know, they want to hear more. And I think that is engaging.
- [32:50]
B
But I think also that it's again, I still go back to the fact that again, if a prospective client comes in, I'm not going to dump my Camino story on them.
- [32:57]
A
Right.
- [32:58]
B
They don't, they don't care, they don't care about that. So it's, again, it's all of our clients and you know, everybody. We, you know, you want them to know that you are again, a good listener, that you care, that certainly you're competent, that in your building chemistry. So I don't use, I don't again, use the book in an introductory meeting or whatever, but I'll, because again, my objective is to get to know who they are again, what are their goals, what are their interests. The three photos you mentioned, Catherine, are just, are a great, that's a great thing, I think, to ask for. I even ask them to bring in that object if they can think of the object, to bring that object with them or bring a photo of it if it's too big. So again, getting to know them and then giving them the book afterwards, you know, that then they're going to learn more about kind of my heart and soul by reading the book, reading, you know, seeing the values that come out of it and learning what again I got from my walk on the Camino.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah. And I think for both of you, if we want to talk about this for a moment in the construct of, okay, what about this is potentially helpful in actually growing your business? Right. Getting new clients in the door. I think, absolutely. As you just described, Gordon, this isn't about, you know, you know, handing out your, handing out your book on the, on the corner necessarily or anything like that, but it becomes a quick and meaningful, authentic go to way to engage with prospective clients. And of Course, if you're out in the community or in the wilderness, as Scott is, and people know you through that, then that point of connectivity can absolutely serve you. I think I speak for both of you when I say you can't pursue a hobby, so to speak, or start talking about a hobby for the express purpose of simply getting more clients in the door. But it can absolutely. You can be purposeful about it and have it be a tool in your toolkit in terms of how you might engage with prospective clients. Is that fair to say? Safe to say? Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:58]
B
Yes.
- [34:59]
A
I think what's interesting for both of you and the passion that you have in these areas, a common denominator that I noticed is this element of nature and solitude and being quiet. And I think in a very busy, noisy, fast paced industry, not even the world, but just in the industry alone, and you, both of you are leaders within your businesses, it can be a challenge at times. And so I wanted to ask both of you, and I've mentioned this on some prior podcasts, I talk about James Mattis, who is a four star Marine Corps general and former Secretary of Defense, and he talks about this idea that solitude allows you to reflect while others are reacting. So being purposeful about stepping away in both your cases, there's such a strong connectivity with nature, which we know has significant scientific benefits, if you will, biological benefits to getting out into nature and seeking that solitude. I'm curious, as leaders in your respective businesses, we've been talking a lot about clients and leading clients, leading prospects. But just as leaders within your business, how do you use your passions to recharge and really reflect and be so that you can show up and be sort of the best leaders you can in your business? Scott, what does that look like for you?
- [36:26]
C
You know, Katherine, I think I've just always loved it. It's in me. It's part of who I am. And some people are outdoorsy because they are and others are not, and some people grow into it. But you're absolutely right. I mean, you're hearing about physicians prescribing time outdoors and this term nature deficit disorder and forest bathing in J and in Scandinavian countries is an actual concept. So it's all there. There's a lot of science that, you know, it is good for people. I remember reading something a while ago that even stirring at nature on your screen can lower your blood pressure and make you feel better. So it's there. But for me, I like exercising. I've tried lots of different things. I, I do a little bit of Yoga very poorly because it's, it's good for flexibility and balance. And sometimes there's part of that that you're supposed to meditate and I just have a hard time getting there. It doesn't quite work for me, but. But the outdoor stuff, I get myself to that state just naturally, literally and figuratively. And so like Gordon saw on walking, I experienced the exact same thing. Gordon, why walk by myself? That's become one of my favorite exercises. I'll put on a pack with a little bit of weight and I'll go on the trails in the evening and unplugged. I don't listen to anything, I don't look at anything. And it is incredibly that little bit of a digital detox to be away from the pings and the digital screens and to feel the fresh air and that just act of walking. You look at the span of human history, it's like one tiny little fraction that we've lived these modern lives and even less this digital type connectivity. And there's a lot of great things about it like this conversation we're having now. But even if it's for a little bit, boy, they all help me feel recharged and blood pressure goes down and stress level goes down and all of a sudden a lot of these things that seem so urgent aren't quite as pressing and it's all manageable again.
- [38:15]
B
Yeah, I agree with Scott. I think the outdoors just does a wonderful job of just recharging to be in my, to have the thoughts, you know, in my mind just percolate, you know, that one thought will lead to another. So I love the solitude. But I think from a standpoint, one of the things also, Catherine, I'll just say about from a standpoint of leadership, you know, I've again, I've interviewed over 600 business owners and executives. And each interview, I think in, in many ways, each of them have impacted my leadership because I see, I hear their story, I see something they do and I say, you know, you take a little bit away from each of these interviews. So they've had a big impact on me. The same with Visti, since I didn't grow up kind of in a Fortune 500 company with a mentor. You know, I started my company at a young age, didn't have then the benefit of having that mentorship that helps guide my leadership. So, so I joined, you know, Vistage probably 15 years ago or something like that. And just being with other fellow CEOs also and discussing issues, business issues, whatever challenges we may have, you know, even if it's not my challenge and it's somebody else's challenge, I learned something just by listening to them. So I love, you know, I love the business community that I'm part of and how they've influenced me. And again, I get. Can't thank Vistage enough for their role in my leadership development.
- [39:41]
A
Well, thank you both for sharing your perspective, sharing your passion with us. You know, the way that you pursue it personally and the way that it shows up as leaders and as advisors for clients, I think it's really impactful. You know, I often say it's rare that we really check our personal life at the front door when we come into the office. And some days that's more true than others. But this idea of, of being able to, just as you want your clients to be able to bring their full sales and your team members to bring their best selves to the office every day, I think leading by example and showing how you can really pursue excellence as well in some of these personal passions and have that show up in your business, I think is just really impactful. And it gets to, that gets back to that personal why that we've been talking about. It gets back to the storytelling and how do you master that over time? Well, I want to thank both Gordon and Scott for being with us today. You can absolutely find Gordon and Scott on LinkedIn. They're absolutely. You can find them there. But also Gordon moderawealth.com GordonJ. Bernhardt.com you're everywhere. You're everywhere, Gordon. And then, and you also mentioned, you know, a lot of the interviews that you've done, the additional writings you've done, you know, profiles and success. I just think that it's powerful. People should definitely check that out. I think it's just as you said, you're gonna, you'll get nuggets from all of the really interesting folks that you've written about and that are leading really compelling lives. Lives you've heard us talk about. Bullmoosepatrol.com with Scott. It's a great name. I love that. Also, McKeehillfa.com is a great place to locate Scott if you have any questions or want to wander out into the wilderness with proper, proper preparation and guidance as well on both of that. So thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today. Really appreciate it.
- [41:30]
C
Thank you. This is great conversation.
- [41:32]
B
Thank you, Kathryn.
- [41:33]
A
And if you'd like to find out more information about how Dimensional engages with advisors and investment professionals, you can find us@dimensional.com and with that. I will catch you all next time.
- [41:45]
D
Thank you thank you for joining us for Dimensional Fund Advisors Managing youg Practice Podcast. For more information, please visit www.dimensional.com. dimensional Fund Advisors LP is an investment advisor registered with the securities and Exchange Commission. The views, information or opinions expressed during this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dimensional or its affiliates. Dimensional is not responsible for and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast. All expressions, information and opinions are subject to change. This podcast is distributed for information purposes and it is not to be construed as an offer, solicitation, recommendation or endorsement of any particular security, products or services. Please consult with qualified legal or tax professionals regarding your individual circumstances. Investing involves risks. Risks include loss of principal and fluctuating value. This podcast is available for private, non commercial use only. You may not edit, modify or redistribute this podcast without the express written consent of Dimensional. Dimensional assumes no liability for any activities in connection with this Podcast or for use in connection with any other website, computer or playing device.