Episode 127 - Guard Your Heart NOT "Follow Your Heart"

Summary

Mariners Church Weekend Messages — Episode 127: "Guard Your Heart NOT 'Follow Your Heart'"

Date: September 14, 2025
Host: Liz Garcia
Guests: Kay Geiger and Senior Pastor Eric Geiger
Audience: Live Thursday night young adults

Episode Overview

In this vibrant and candid episode, host Liz Garcia leads Senior Pastor Eric Geiger and his wife Kay through a series of questions submitted by young adults on love, dating, marriage, commitment, and emotional health from a faith-rooted perspective. The conversation balances scriptural grounding, lived experience, humor, and practical advice, with a recurring emphasis on commitment, character, and intentionality over fleeting feelings or cultural dating norms.

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Key Discussion Points

1. How to Know If God Doesn't Want You in a Relationship

[01:01–05:18]

• Don’t rationalize staying: If you’re a Christ-follower dating someone who isn’t, or you’re noticing “major character flaws, like lying all the time, cheating all the time, those things carry over. I'd say that'd be a major red flag.” (Kay, [01:56])
• Evaluate why you started: “Should you have gotten into this relationship to start with? And if the answer is no, then you definitely should get out.” (Kay, [02:58])
• Kindness in breaking up: “It’s actually very kind towards the person to end the relationship… Don’t delay if you feel prompted.” (Eric, [03:48])
• Check your own motives: “Just make sure you're not wanting to back out because you're afraid of committing... If you're not ready to commit, you shouldn't have started dating in the first place.” (Kay, [04:35])
• Dating vs. going on dates: Distinction drawn between spending time with someone vs. committing to an exclusive relationship with the intent to discern marriage.

2. Is 20–23 Too Young to Get Married?

[05:20–10:29]

• Personal testimony: Both Eric and Kay advocate for young marriage, reflecting on their own experience (married at 21 and 19).
• Trade-offs: “It's kind of like choose your pain. There’s pain if you get married young, and pain if you get married late.” (Eric, [05:42])
• Financial struggle and togetherness: “Some of my best memories are of those days when we were having to figure stuff out together.” (Kay, [10:09])
• Key qualifiers: Emphasis on maturity, ability for men to provide/protect, and both being committed and walking with Jesus.
• Sexual purity: Longer dating makes purity harder: “We value sexual purity. The reality is, it's hard to date someone a long time and be sexually pure. It just is.” (Eric, [09:12])

3. Does God "Introduce" Us to Our Future Spouse?

[11:09–14:36]

• Actively pursue: “Sometimes guys… can be passive thinking… if God wants it to happen, he's gonna like doordash me somebody. It’s not how it happens. You do have to pursue.” (Eric, [12:01])
• Desires align when walking with God: “If you're walking with him, his desires become your desires… If you have a desire to date someone, you're walking with Jesus… go for it!” (Kay, [13:21])

4. Feelings vs. Commitment & Guarding the Heart

[13:56–15:13]

• Don't idolize feelings: “If you're gonna base your relationship on feelings, you are never gonna be satisfied… I don't base my relationship with Jesus on a feeling… If our relationship was based on a feeling, we would be getting married and unmarried every, you know, few days or so.” (Kay, [14:36])
• Guard the heart from chasing temporary emotions, focus on character and commitment.

5. Should You Date/Be in Relationship With a Non-Believer?

[15:25–15:40]

• Unanimous, unambiguous answer:
  “No.” (Eric and Kay, [15:37])

6. Can/Should You Date Multiple People at Once?

[15:41–22:47]

• Dating vs. “getting to know”: “Get to know is different from date.” (Eric, [15:50])
• Commitment matters: “That to me devalues commitment… how are you ever… can you not be committed for a couple weeks and find out if you like him?” (Kay, [16:03])
• Dating apps and divided attention: “A downside could be you could have too many 'plates spinning' at one time that doesn't allow you to focus.” (Eric, [18:27])
• Impact on the heart: “Worry about what it does to your heart and what it trains your heart for… for marriage one day.” (Eric, [21:08])
• Ultimate stance: Both land firmly on pursuing one at a time, with clarity and intentionality—high commitment in dating lays a foundation for high commitment in marriage.

7. On Commitment in Relationships and Marriage

[21:10–22:47]

• Never saying “divorce”: “We said right before we ever got married, we would never say the D word. Divorce. That word would never be uttered in our home, and we have stuck to that.” (Kay, [21:33])
• What you cultivate in dating carries into marriage: “Things roll over into your marriage whether you mean for them to or not… high commitment when you're dating is going to roll over into high commitment when you're married.” (Kay, [22:46])

8. Is Being "Emotionally Unavailable" Biblical? (Especially as an Excuse to De-commit)

[23:44–28:19]

• Understanding the term: Initially confusion—“I don't even know what that means.” (Kay, [23:56])
• Gender differences: Men may not be as emotionally attuned or expressive as women, but this isn’t an excuse for lack of emotional availability.
• Excuse to exit: Recognized as a common “exit phrase,” but Kay says, “That’s so dumb… Then you shouldn’t have got in to start with.” ([27:12])
• Better to end before marriage: “If a guy does tell you that, you really don't want to be united with him, because the commitment's gonna get harder after marriage, not easier.” (Eric, [28:04])
• Not biblical: Clear agreement that commitment is biblical, not bailing under the “emotionally unavailable” banner.

9. How Should a Man Lead in a Relationship?

[28:28–33:47]

• Servant leadership: “The kind of leader that Jesus is, is a servant… love your wife the way Jesus loves you. And so to be a leader is to love as Jesus loved, which means you serve her.” (Eric, [28:37])
• Go first, outdo in love: “Leaders go first. And so… you go first, you forgive first, you express first, you serve first, you pursue first.” (Eric, [30:31])
• Mutual humility and love: “Focus on outdoing each other in love. Not like, ‘I'm not gonna do that for him, he hasn't done anything for me.’ That is not the way it works. It will not work.” (Kay, [32:03])
• Practical example: Kay shares Eric's willingness to listen and affirm her emotional needs as everyday servant leadership. ([33:47])

10. Arranged Marriage & Community's Role

[34:09–35:58]

• Arranged marriage statistics: “Divorce rate globally for arranged marriages is 1% compared to 40% in America… But sometimes those are forced marriages, which is different.” (Eric, [34:19])
• Positive aspects: Arranged marriages involve community/family input and support—compelling, but acknowledged with humor that “cults do it” and there are limits.
• Not an actual recommendation, but highlights the value of wise community counsel and shared support in relationships.

11. Guarding Your Heart and Pursuing Purity in Dating

[36:12–40:26]

• Scripture cited: Matthew 5, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.”
• Purity of heart = undiluted focus on Jesus: “When your heart is fully focused on Jesus, you are going to value the other person… want them to grow spiritually… want the relationship to either go to marriage or that the person loves Jesus more than before they started dating you.” (Eric, [36:34])
• Behavioral standard: “That you could go to that person's wedding and meet their spouse and shake their hand and look them in the eye and be proud of how you treated that person.” (Eric, [37:41])
• Motivation for dating: “Number one, that your heart is right going in… You're following Jesus, you're in a good, healthy place, and then you're clear with them about what you're doing.” (Kay, [38:48])
• Non-negotiables: “If you're loving and following Jesus and the boy is loving and following Jesus, that's non-negotiable… If you cannot have a boundary talk, you cannot date.” (Kay, [39:53])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On breaking up before it’s too late:
  “There was, like, years of time that could have been spent figuring out if someone else was the person that they were gonna marry.” — Eric ([03:48])
• On guarding feelings:
  “If you're gonna base your relationship on feelings, you are never gonna be satisfied.” — Kay ([14:36])
• On pursuing one interest at a time:
  “I didn’t sign up to be on The Bachelor… that would be a major turn off.” — Kay ([20:39])
• On leading like Jesus:
  “To be a Leader is to love as Jesus loved, which means you serve her… you look to serve her because your heart is overwhelmed with how Christ served you.” — Eric ([28:37])
• On purity:
  “Purity of heart… would be, I’m either going to marry this person or… I have a clear conscience before God that I treated this person the way Jesus wants me to treat this person.” — Eric ([37:41])
• On community in marriage:
  “Families that are… we’re in this together, we’re gonna help you together become one.” — Eric ([35:01])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dating red flags & breaking up: [01:01–05:18]
• Young marriage: [05:20–10:29]
• God’s role in finding a spouse: [11:09–14:36]
• Feelings vs. commitment: [13:56–15:13]
• Dating non-believers: [15:25–15:40]
• Multiple dating/commitment: [15:41–22:47]
• Commitment’s long-term impact: [21:10–22:47]
• Emotional availability: [23:44–28:19]
• Servo-leadership for men: [28:28–33:47]
• Arranged marriage & support: [34:09–35:58]
• Purity and guarding your heart: [36:12–40:26]

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Takeaways

• Commitment, not fleeting feelings, forms the foundation for healthy dating and marriage.
• Faith and character matter more than compatibility or chemistry alone.
• Don’t date or marry someone who isn’t walking with Jesus or who exhibits unrepentant major character flaws.
• It’s OK—and even beautiful—to marry young, if you’re mature and truly ready to commit.
• Be honest, clear, and upfront about intentions and set godly boundaries in dating.
• Lead in relationships the way Christ leads the church—through service, humility, and self-sacrifice.
• Let community and trusted mentors speak into your relationships.

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For more resources and to connect, visit marinerschurch.org

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the if I Had More Time podcast. I am so glad that you are joining us today. My name is Liz Garcia. I'm your host. And not only am I here with the amazing Kay and Eric Geiger, but I'm here for the first time ever with a live audience.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So why don't.

[B]

Yeah. Yay. Come on. We just finished our Thursday night service. So this is. This is the Thursday night crew who's staying after at almost 9 o' clock at night because they. They want. They want more.

[A]

They want more.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

They are so excited about the series, which I am too, by the way. It's only week two. It's already been so much fun and a lot of you guys who are listening right now, you've been sending in your questions through those mailboxes on the patio, in the foyer at your congregation. Tonight's questions specifically came from our Thursday night group, our young adults of our church. So buckle up. It's going to be really fun. We're going to try and knock out as many as possible in a short amount of time. Okay? So I'm gonna stop talking and let them go. Are you guys ready?

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Okay. I feel a lot of pressure right now. Suddenly, I got nervous. Okay, first question. How can I tell if God doesn't want me in a relationship anymore?

[B]

Okay. And we want. This is assuming. This is because it's our Thursday night crew. This is somebody who's dating someone. So this is not a question like about leaving my spouse. This is about I'm dating someone. And. And I'm not sure this is the right person. I'm actually convinced this is not the right person.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Well, they didn't say convinced. They said, how do I know?

[A]

Oh, how can I tell? Was the specific wording.

[C]

How can I tell?

[A]

I didn't change it.

[C]

They don't know.

[B]

Then I think you should go ahead, baby. No, no.

[C]

Do you want them. Do you want them to say, I.

[B]

Want you to start.

[C]

Okay. I was just going to say, I think the better question is, should you have started dating them to start with? So if I got it.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

Did you hear it? So what I would say is, if you're a believer, if you're walking with Jesus and you started dating someone who's not, you should break up with them. If you're seeing major character flaws, like lying all the time, cheating all the time, those things carry over. I'd say that'd be a major red flag. Our friend JP who's gonna be here In a few weeks, says, and I agree with him, he says, find the most godly person, you know, date them, and date them as long as it takes to figure out are they someone. I can see being a good spouse for me and mom or dad for my kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And at that point, if you're like, no, that's not gonna work, then you break up with them, but you don't get into a relationship. I think. I think sometimes the problem is we get into relationships that we should have never been in to start with. I would say ask yourself that question first. Like, should I have gotten into this relationship to start with? And if the answer is no, then you definitely should get out.

[B]

I would just add one quick thing. I think that's all that's perfect. Yes. Assuming all of those things, characters there both are believers. If as you are dating the person, if as you are listening to God's spirit who lives within you, if you become more and more uncomfortable that I just am not convinced that this is the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with, then it's actually very kind towards the person to end the relationship. Where I sometimes have my heart broken for the young adults in our church is when the relationship goes for so long and then somebody breaks it off, and I feel like they just. There was, like, years of time that could have been spent figuring out if someone else was the person that they were gonna marry.

[A]

Right. Right. Like, if you're feeling that prompting, don't delay.

[B]

Even for the sake of the person, Even for the sake of the other person.

[C]

I want to interject one thing, though, just to kind of push back a little bit. One thing that I. And Eric talks about this a lot on the pot. We talked about this a lot on the previous podcast. Just make sure you're not wanting to back out because you're afraid of committing. So don't. I mean, I just want you. I think for a long period there, it was just so quick. Like, if you're not sure, just get out. I don't know if that was great advice, because I think we've gotten to a little bit of a point of where if you're not ready to commit, I don't think you should be dating because you're dating to marry. So if you're not ready to commit, you shouldn't have started dating in the first place.

[B]

And that's different from going on a date. But, like, I'm dating this person exclusively, so maybe. Maybe you're articulating that. And I believe just as you believe that date with the intention of I'm either going to marry this person or I'm going to find out that I'm not marrying this person and then I'm going to end it.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Yep. But just, you always need to evaluate yourself in that situation as well. Like, am I afraid of committing? Is there. You know, if that person seems like they don't have any character flaws, they're welcome. With Jesus, I, you know, everything's good, then what's the issue? So you, you don't miss the point of asking yourself, you know, am. Do I just not want to commit? You know, and then the whole thing about feeling too, though, like a relationship's not a feeling. I just think you have to be careful.

[B]

Yep, that's good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I know that K is going to love this one too, because she told me she would. Is 20 to 23 years old too young to get married?

[C]

No, I think it's. I'm a huge, I'm a huge advocate of getting married young for a lot of reasons. Number one that we did, because we did.

[B]

You're like, everybody be like me.

[A]

You go ahead.

[B]

I. From a practical standpoint, it's really. It's kind of like choose your pain. There is pain if you get married young, and there's pain if you, if you don't, if you get married late. And when I say pain, I mean, we had a great. We got married really young, like 21 and almost, I mean, and 19, like really young. And we met in college and I, I mean, I was just blown away with who Kay was. And when she was interested in me, I was like, I'm going as fast as I can, get this girl committed and then she'll be stuck with me. That's essentially, essentially what I want. What happened? And so when I say pain, it wasn't like a bad relationship pain, but we didn't have any money. And so we, like, the only insurance we had was we had this balloon policy. Like 65 bucks a month. Just if something really bad happened, it.

[C]

Was only gonna work if we don't like dying.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it was like. It was basically just. I mean, I don't even know why we had it. They didn't cover anything. I was making $12,000 a year as a youth pastor. There was a older guy in the church who rented us a house for 250 bucks a month.

[C]

This was a long time ago.

[B]

It was a long time ago.

[C]

Okay, just.

[B]

But anyway, the pain for us was we didn't have like the. We're going out to nice restaurants or we're going on vacations. You know, that was definitely not us when we first were married. And so if you get married young, there are some challenges. You know, both are working. We're both finishing school, both working. And then if you get married late, the research I shared tonight, I mean, young adults are saying there's just a lot of pain dating in this crazy world right now, you know? So it's like you choose your pain. I am great with. And we have two daughters now, and we were. When they started doing the math of how young we were, it was like, oh, dang, they're gonna figure out how young we were.

[C]

Yeah, we kept it a secret for a long time.

[B]

But I'm with Kay. I'm not saying you have to get married young. I just think you shouldn't be afraid of getting married young. If there's maturity. If there's maturity, I'll speak to the guys. You should be able to provide for her. You shouldn't be asking Mommy to pay the bills. That's not cool. I mean, the scripture says to leave and then be united. So Genesis chapter two. A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. Genesis, chapter 2, verse 24. So as a man, you want to be in a position where you can provide. Now, provide doesn't mean Cabo. It didn't mean. For us. It meant.

[C]

No, it definitely did not.

[B]

It meant we have enough money to go to Pizza Inn buffet. That's what it meant. But I was able to provide. I was able to show your dad that. Here's how I'm going to provide for her. Here's how I'm going to care for her. And so as long as you. I'm speaking to the young men now. As long as you can provide for her and protect her and care for her and you believe that she's the one you want to commit the rest of your life to, I'm all for going for it. And we have good friends. They're amazing friends. And we talked about this recently because their kids are around the same age.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They have three daughters, and one of them got married really young. And we value sexual purity. And the reality is, it's hard to date someone a long time and be sexually pure. It just is.

[C]

I don't even think it's how it's meant to be. I mean, honestly, I don't think it's.

[B]

How God created me because you just wanted me so badly.

[C]

That's exactly what I'm saying. That's on the last podcast, too. Yeah. I loved getting married young. I didn't think that I would. I mean. I mean, I wasn't looking to get married young. Eric tricked me. I'm just kidding. But, you know, some of my best memories are of those days when we were having to figure stuff out together. And, you know, we weren't. We didn't. We weren't set in our way of doing anything because we didn't have any ways of doing anything. And so we learned it all together. One of our girls asked Eric's dad one time, did you know Mommy when she was a little girl?

[B]

And.

[C]

And I went, pretty much.

[B]

She did.

[C]

But there's a beauty of growing up together that's true, too, that I wouldn't trade it for anything. I wouldn't trade it for anything. And we were both. We both worked and went to school at the same time, and we made it work. You make it work. So, yeah, I mean, I believe in it. I do.

[A]

And you guys have a beautiful marriage. I know you guys are. You've known Eric for a while, and you're kind of just getting to know Kay right now. But I'll just tell you, as somebody who does get to walk a little bit closer to the Geigers, I can tell you they have a very beautiful marriage worth modeling after. So I can testify to them they love one another deeply and they put their marriage first. And you're an excellent model to all of us. So you guys keep listening. You're doing the right thing by asking them these questions. Okay? Do you guys think that God introduces us to our future wife or husband?

[C]

I know, I don't know. I might disagree on that.

[B]

It's okay, you can disagree.

[C]

I mean, go ahead, say what you're going to say first, and I'll decide.

[B]

I mean, by introduces, I mean I saw K and God did not. Like, I remember the first time I saw you, and I was like, whoa. And so like, with jp, who's a good.

[C]

What did I have on?

[B]

I saw. I was looking at your face the whole time.

[A]

Oh, that's good.

[B]

I was staring at your face.

[A]

That's good. Good answer.

[C]

I don't either.

[B]

But, like, JP is a friend, he kind of lowers the attraction a bit. I was really attracted to you, but it wasn't. And I'll talk about this next week, it wasn't love at first sight. I was like, I'm gonna. I'm in love with this person. But I was interested in talking to you. Yeah, but I still didn't had to go and talk to you. It's not like God, you know, magically just worked it out where we were sitting together in a group or something. Like I had to pursue you.

[C]

That's right. That's true.

[B]

So that's what I mean. I think sometimes, and I'm only speaking from the guy's perspective, I think sometimes guys, if they're not careful, can be passive thinking. You know, if God wants it to happen, he's just gonna, he's gonna like doordash me somebody. And it's not how it happens. You do have to pursue.

[C]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, you for sure should pursue. I think I took the question a little differently. Like, you know, will God make it clear, you know, this is a person that I approve of you marrying is kind of how I took the question. And I think that he does that. I think he absolutely does that. There's a, there's a few different verses that come to my mind. One is there, said before from the stage is delight your. Nope, that's not the one. Yes, delight yourself in the Lord and he'll give you the desires of your heart. That's Proverbs 37:4, Psalm 37:4. And so you're walking with him, you're spending time with him. You, you, the Lord, you love him. The person that you're all of a sudden like, hey, I think I like that guy. I like that he loves Jesus. I like this. I like the things about him that God loves.

[B]

And that was the thing that you were most attracted in me.

[C]

100%. Yeah.

[B]

Which I always tell guys, like, gives them hope. You don't have to be a good looking dude.

[C]

You just have to love Jesus forever, Eric.

[B]

A whole bunch.

[C]

So funny. So I do think in a way God does make it clear. Like I do think, you know, if you're walking with him, his desires become your desires. And so if you, if you're walking with him and you have a desire. Eric, you're the one who said this. If you have a desire to date someone, you're welcome with Jesus.

[B]

Go for it.

[C]

Go for it. Yeah, do it.

[B]

And so, yeah, I think some people overthink it.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

So if you're, if you're following after Jesus and you're interested in him, go. Go with it. If you're following after Jesus and you're interested in her, go for it and then don't. If you're following after Jesus.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. And then don't expect it to be perfect.

[B]

It's not gonna be perfect.

[C]

That's one thing I was gonna add a minute ago. Like, just if. That. If you're going in with that expectation of, you know. I thought the feeling thing tonight was so good, what you said about the heart. Like, I'm going off track a little bit here, but I. I think this is super important. If you're. Eric said that often we talk about the heart, that we talk about your feelings. Right? Like, I'm losing feelings. Like, I've heard that before from this. From you. You guys. And so if you're gonna base your relationship on feelings, you are never gonna be satisfied. I don't base my relationship with Jesus on a feeling. Like, I don't go into every day when I spend time with him being like, I have to have a good feeling, or I didn't really spend time with him. No, I. I know that our relationship is real.

[B]

Right?

[C]

And so if our relationship was based on a feeling, we would be getting married and unmarried every, you know, few days or so. I mean, so that often? Maybe not that often, but, I mean, there's definitely been times when I'm like, eric, I don't feel like you really like me right now.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. You say that. I don't know. I do like you.

[C]

I. I think. I think he's probably said that, like, maybe I don't. Maybe never. And I'm like, I don't feel like you're really into me right now. I feel like you really like me right now. And he's like, babe, that's so dumb. I totally love you. I'm like, and you like me? Yeah, I like you. I like you. But that's an example of feelings. And girls, particularly us, because we're like emotional beings. And God uses that to make us, like, nurturing moms. But you have to be really careful that you don't base everything on feeling.

[B]

I love that. Can you say it again?

[A]

That's great. So this next one's gonna be a little spicy.

[C]

I like spicy.

[A]

Is it ever wise to be in a relationship? I wish I knew who asked these questions. I would love to talk to you. Is it ever wise to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't share your faith?

[B]

No.

[C]

That's, like, so easy.

[A]

Okay, great. Moving on. Is it okay to date? Get to know multiple people at a time?

[C]

No, these are easy.

[B]

I think get to know is different from date.

[C]

Oh, get to know how? Did they say anything more?

[B]

Liz, that's all I got, when we first got married, I was known as the bold one and Kay was the sweet one. Over time, you've become like, dang, girl.

[C]

I think it's because we have daughters. Like, I'm like, I wouldn't, I would never advise my daughters to, like, be talking to more than one boy at a time.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Ever, Ever. Because how, how are you ever. That, that to me devalues commitment. Like, can you not be committed for a couple weeks and find out if you, like, actually like him? Okay, I, that's my opinion on it.

[A]

I think that this is probably heavily contested then, because right now a lot of people are on dating apps where the name of the game is. You're talking to a lot of people at the same time.

[C]

Okay, but what are you. Okay, but, but can you, Are you, how, how deep are you going in that?

[A]

To be clear, I am not. I am married.

[C]

You are married. I was at the wedding.

[A]

It's a hypothetical. She was at the wedding. She's actually the witness on the legal document.

[C]

The witness on the legal document. That's right.

[A]

I lost my train of thought. To be clear, the. The eyes is not me. I'm speaking on behalf of my friends. But yeah, I mean, it can be like, I'm going on a date with this person on Monday and on Thursday, I'm going on a date with this person and I'm on the phone with another person on Friday.

[C]

I'm still going with.

[B]

Now I don't have a strong opinion on it. I think once you start, once it moves to a second date and you're obviously you're then you, it's just even good for your own heart to not get into a comparison game.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It's going to be divided hard.

[B]

And I, I, but, but, but I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm so old. I mean, I'm, I, I. Even when people talk to me about jobs, I, I'm the same way, like, pray about if you're like, talking to this employee, possible employer, like, pursue that one as fast as you can and get the. God's not leading you to, like, three different jobs. He's leading you to one, and he's.

[C]

Definitely not leading you in three different wives.

[B]

That's true, baby. That's really good, baby. To run one all the way through to the end as fast as you can is what I tell someone on a career choice because you're going to be like doing the plus and minus on all of them and then you're going to go to the job. And then you're going, I should have done this job as opposed to getting with God. And he's not saying yes. Yes. He's saying he's only going to say yes to one of them. So do one at a. You know, that's what I always say on a career. I. So I. You know, when it comes to. We were. We've married way before dating apps, and.

[C]

I'm not against dating apps at all. I just. I would say.

[B]

I'd say a downside of it could be you could have too many quote, unquote, plate Spain at one time. That does it. That doesn't allow you to focus in on one person. But I could understand if on that person's perspective, if they're like, but everyone else is doing that. And, you know, I could get. I could. I could see the viewpoint, but once it moves to a second date, I would have a conversation like, you know what? I am so interested. This is what I'd say if I was a guy. If we lived on the dating apps. You. I'm glad it wasn't there because you probably wouldn't have, like, thumbs me up. I'm just being honest.

[C]

That's not true.

[B]

All right, okay, okay, okay, fine. You would have thumbs me. Whatever. What do you do?

[A]

I think you swipe.

[B]

You swipe? You'd have swiped me.

[A]

No, Wait, do you swipe?

[B]

We would have gone. We would have gone on a date. I mean, I would have been direct. I would have said, listen, I really like you, and I'm not gonna.

[C]

I really like you, too.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I. I don't want. I don't. I just want to see where this goes. I'm gonna be open and honest about who I am. If you can be open and honest about who you are, let's just see where this goes and be open and honest about each other and have fun and enjoy each other. But I'm not gonna. I'm not doing this with anybody else. I want to. I want to. I want to. I want to go on this journey with you forever. Long goes.

[C]

Yes, I think I would be like, that sounds like a great idea. Which is different than dating multiple people at this point.

[A]

I just.

[B]

I just.

[C]

I just.

[B]

I'm agreeing with you.

[C]

I know you are. I know you are. And I'm agreeing with myself, too.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But I just want. Okay, that is how. To me, that is how it should be done. So I guess. I guess I would encourage you this. I don't know all the different words. So like, how the apps work and all that. But if you're like, yeah, but I'm just, like, getting to know different people at the same time, I would just ask yourself this question. If you're getting to know someone and you're starting to kind of like them, but then you find out they're talking to, like, let's just talk about girls, because I'm a girl. So let's just say I'm talking to you, and I'm really starting to get to like you. And. And then I find out that you're talking to, like, six other girls, too. I didn't sign up to be on the Bachelor. I mean, like, I don't want to play that game. So I think for me, that would be a major turn off.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, okay, is he not into me enough that he can just.

[B]

I agree with that.

[C]

Just talk to me until he decides. Do you guys see. Do you see where I'm going with that? I guess that's my. That's my perspective on it. Again, I don't know how the dating apps work. I'm hardcore. No. Against dating multiple people at the same time.

[B]

I am, too.

[C]

Like, no. I think. I think it'll just be hard to like.

[B]

But also, I worry about what it. Decide what you want, but also worry about what it does to your heart and what it trains your heart for.

[C]

For the future.

[B]

For a marriage. One day.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. You know, because marriage, really, guys, here's the truth. It's about commitment.

[B]

It is.

[C]

I feel like we say this all the time, but I cannot say it enough. And I wish people had said it to us earlier on and we were committed. I think that's one reason it worked for us, because we were both very committed people in general.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So we were committed. Like, just committed people.

[B]

Like, when we go in, we go.

[C]

All in on something, and we're both that way. So, you know, I think for us getting married young, that's one reason that it worked really well. We said right before we ever got married, we would never say the D word. Divorce. We would never. That word would never be uttered in our home, and we have stuck to that. Like, so Commitment.

[B]

Yeah. Like, even through challenging times now when we say we don't say the word. Like, we know it's a word in the vocabulary, and we'll.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[B]

When we talk about other people having a divorce or something, that would come up. But we made the promise that it's not like you can't say the word ever. No. I'm just being sure. Not them. The people in the podcast people are listening.

[C]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[B]

Yeah, I, I think that's been important. So almost 29 years of marriage and 29 years of marriage. Not one time, not one time in 29 years has any one of us, either one of us said. And we've had fights and arguments, but neither one, not one time has one of us said, maybe we should just get a no. Or do you ever think about, I guess never one time.

[C]

No. And I think that I just want to be super, super clear. The reason I think that I feel so strongly about this whole dating thing is because I feel so strongly about commitment. And so things roll over into your marriage whether you mean for them to or not.

[B]

That's true. That is true.

[C]

And so, you know, high commitment when you're dating is going to roll over into high commitment when you're married.

[B]

You don't become a brand new person, like magically right when you stand before the preacher and get married, but nor does the person you're marrying. Which is why you do want to have high, high character and high commitment.

[C]

Yeah, I think isn't. Liz, you told me week six is about conflict, right? So that's just, just a little plug for that. The reason you can have good, healthy conflict in dating, relationships and in marriage is because of commitment. That's true, by the way. Like if you, you cannot have it if you're not, like, feeling certain about commitment. So I just think commitments, like, I think, I think commitment is the name of the game. So just kind of ask yourself that question and put yourself on the other side of the table when you're talking to multiple people. Okay. Did we cover that? It was, well, amazing.

[A]

So wise. Okay, this next one, I feel like has a story behind it is being, quote, quote, emotionally unavailable. Biblical guys in this generation always seem to say that.

[C]

I don't even know what that means.

[B]

You gave me a heads up on.

[C]

This one because I don't know what it means.

[B]

Yeah, well, it could, it could mean a couple different things.

[C]

I said, Eric, you have to answer this question because I don't know what it means. That's what I said.

[B]

It could mean that the person could be meaning. And I agree with this perception of men is that. And the reality is that men are not as great emotionally, often as women. You are. Like when we have a party at our house or we're in a group of people, you sense, man, that person needs encouragement or that person's struggling more than I sense you are more emotionally Attuned to. To people than I am. I think so that. I think that's often the difference between men and women. Sometimes though. Then there's men who are really not great at emotionally connecting. So this could be a person who's saying, I think men in our generation are struggling with being emotionally connected.

[C]

What's the word again though, Liz?

[B]

Emotionally available.

[A]

Unavailable.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So unavailable.

[B]

Basically a man who shuts down a man. And that. That's true. Some. Some men do. It could also be. And that you never know the situation. Sometimes some unrealistic expectations can be put on a young man on what they are supposed to be. He's not going to be as emotionally aware as you are as a, as a woman. Likely. I know that's stereotype, but. But I'm not going to be as.

[C]

Can you give me an example? Like in a dating relationship?

[B]

You want me to give you an example of a dating somebody 29 years.

[C]

I don't want you to date anyone. I want you. Obviously I want you to give me an example of what this person might be asking.

[B]

Okay, so I mean there's times where you. There's times where you are disappointed with me. Like if we're having a conversation and I don't ask another follow up question or I give you too short of an answer or you could sometimes think, yeah, you're not sharing your feelings enough. And I'm like, maybe I don't have anything else to share.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

And so this is all very true. So it can depend. Like what I'm saying is someone watching sometimes can. And we've been married for 29 years, but almost sometimes someone watching might say I'm emotionally unavailable.

[C]

I would never say it about you.

[B]

I don't think I'm emotionally unavailable. I'm just saying I'm not as emotionally attuned as you are.

[C]

Oh yeah, okay, I get it now.

[A]

Wait, I don't know if that's what it means. I think emotionally unavailable is a little bit of a junk drawer term for an excuse to.

[C]

That's what I kind of thought too, but I wasn't. Okay, the audience is speaking to us. Okay, can you guys explain what it means? Did you send this question in? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[A]

I think that it's more like maybe not an excuse. It is an explanation that a guy will give in order to exit a relationship.

[C]

So I'm not emotionally available?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

The guy will say that about himself?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

A guy will say that about himself?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

That's that's so dumb.

[B]

A guy will say, I'm not emotionally available because I have so many other things going on in my life.

[A]

And one could say that perhaps there are other reasons that they want to exit this relationship, but they're just not.

[B]

But that's a. That is a phrase that is acceptable to use. Like, I want to. Hey, podcast listener, you're learning a lot about. About phrases I didn't even know. So that's a way that some guys tap out right now is they say, I just got so much going on. I just can't. I don't have enough. I don't have enough to give to this relationship.

[C]

Then you shouldn't have got in to start with.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

But is the question, is it biblical?

[A]

It was.

[C]

No, right? Eric, don't you agree?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I mean, I don't care. Any script.

[B]

I think. I think it's possible for a guy to say, I realize that this relationship is going to be, I don't have enough to give. I'm not ready to be united. And if that's a term that a guy uses to back out of not committing, I'd rather him back out than commit and then back out after he's committed.

[C]

Okay. Yeah, that's.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? And I'd say if a guy does tell you that, you really don't want to be united with him, because the commitment's gonna get harder after marriage, not.

[C]

Easier, and he's not gonna suddenly become emotionally available.

[A]

Okay, let's keep. Let's keep talking to the guys. I love this question that came in. I. I believe it's from a man. He says, how do you lead as a man in a relationship?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which I love this question.

[C]

You're good at this.

[B]

How do you lead.

[A]

How do you lead as a man in a relationship?

[B]

It comes down to the kind of leader that Jesus is, is a servant. And so I've never, one time in my marriage. You know, there's a chapter in Ephesians 5 that some people don't like at all because it says, wives, submit to your husbands. And then it says, husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her. Her. In all of our years of marriage, not one time have I said, I need you to submit to me. I've never one time said that.

[C]

No, he has not.

[B]

And so, though I believe that, I'm not against that verse, but that verse, the verse to the husband is, love your wife the way Jesus loves you. And so to be a Leader is to love as Jesus loved, which means you, you serve her. And so how do you serve her? You find out what's important to her, what she values, and you make what she values important to you. So the beautiful thing is when you get married, it's crazy how it happens, but you really do become one flesh. And some of the things that you value, she ends up valuing too. You know, she ends up liking some of the sports that I watched, you know, that ends up happening. But you don't go. You don't go in looking for that as much as you go in looking for what matters to her. And you value what matters to her. And you put her above yourself. You put her life above your life. You look to serve her because your heart is overwhelmed with how Christ served you. And you be that kind of man and the woman will respond to you and love you and cherish you as well.

[C]

Yeah, respect.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you go first. Leaders go first. And so if you're going to be a leader as the man in the relationship, you go first, you forgive first, you express first, you serve first, you pursue first. You go after her heart first. And then sometimes a guy, especially if he's been married for a while, will say, man, I don't feel like doing that like I used to. And I always say, now I'm talking to the married people who are listening. You do it and then your heart will follow. As opposed to. Well, I wouldn't know because my heart's always in it. But yeah, you do the right actions and then your heart, your heart follows.

[C]

I just want to say Eric is really good at this. You should very much listen to him. And, and I. Guys, I can tell you he is 100% right. If you will take the lead. I always think of that verse. Outdo each other in love. And so instead of being. You kind of hit on this tonight too, Eric. But instead of being like. And I'm talking to the girls now, instead of being super like self focused, like. And guys, you too focus on the other per. Especially if you're married or you're headed that direction. Focus on outdoing each other in love. Not like, I'm not gonna do that for him. He hasn't done anything for me. I did more stuff for him than he's done for me. That is not the way it works. It will not work.

[B]

Yeah, you melt each other's hearts when you.

[C]

I can promise you this is what works. Even if I am not. You're going to go through these seasons so I'M just gonna talk to you like, you're all going to be married one day. Okay. You're going to go through seasons where you're going to be super busy. Oh, gosh. The little kid stage. Oh, gosh.

[B]

It's hard.

[C]

I mean, it's so fun, but it's hard.

[B]

It's hard on a marriage.

[C]

And so unless you put them to bed at 5:30, which we did that too. Yeah. Anyway, that's another podcast, so if you will focus on instead of. I'm so disappointed he hasn't done this, this, this, this and this, or she doesn't do this, this, this, this and this and focus on how you can outdo him or her in love. The other person will respond.

[B]

It's true.

[C]

They will respond. And you know, it takes a lot of humility.

[B]

That's what self denial.

[C]

Self denial. That's what you said tonight. Okay, I'm gonna give you just one example of how Eric leads really well. So I brought up a minute ago me saying, like. And I don't say it all the time. I guess I said all the time. I don't think you like me. You would be so annoyed. Like, I mean, I'm talking, like, very rarely, but I mean, there are times when you feel that way. He never says, I'm not even gonna talk to you about this. He never says that. It's basically the same thing every time. I know what it's gonna be. That's why I say it. But I'll say, eric, I feel like there's tension. Something's like off. Like, do you like me right now? And he'll be like, babe, of course I love you. I love you and I like you right now. And then he will say, but I'm really sorry you feel that way. Is there something I can do different? I know that, but that's being a leader. Yeah, I think. I think not being a leader is saying that is like, something's wrong with you. You're being too emotional. Which is true a lot of the time. It is true. But that's not what he says.

[B]

Can you say that one more?

[C]

Oh, gosh, Eric, I'm not repeating any of this.

[B]

You understand? It's all right. It's 9:25.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I just.

[A]

I have a couple. That's beautiful. Seriously, it's so beautiful. And yeah, I mean, it's. I'm so grateful for the example that you guys give us. Okay. I love this one. Can you just arrange my marriage at this point? I would love to spy user.

[B]

I would Love to do arranged marriages.

[C]

I know for sure I could do it.

[A]

He really has considered.

[B]

I considered it, but we're not going to do it because cults do it.

[C]

Tell them what you consider.

[B]

And we don't want to be a cult. Do you know that the divorce rate globally for arranged marriages is 1% compared to the divorce rate in America's 40%. Now, there is some bad stories in that data, because in that 1%, sometimes there's. There's forced marriages. And a forced marriage is different than an arranged marriage. I'm not for arranged marriages. I'm not saying I am.

[C]

I am.

[B]

But because you're. I don't think your family would have chosen Eric.

[C]

That isn't true.

[B]

I moved you halfway around the world. They. They all live in the same. They all live in the same land.

[C]

They do the.

[B]

They live on the same piece of land. It is a commune.

[C]

It's not a real commune, so.

[B]

But they love me. They love me now. And I love your family. Your family's awesome. But the. The reason arranged marriages are compelling to me, and again, I've never been a part of deciding or our marriage was not arranged, but it is families coming together. And so there's like, community deciding, wow, this person is a great match with this person. But then not only are deciding, they're then supporting. And sometimes the early years of marriage are challenging, and you have families that are. We're in this together. We're gonna. We're gonna help you together become one. So that's what's kind of compelling about arranged marriage. And so what I thought about doing is just arranging a bunch of marriages, but I won't do it because cults do it and because there are probably some guys who we. Who we shouldn't set up and some women we shouldn't set up.

[C]

Yeah, we would have to really, like, vet you guys, which would be so.

[B]

Application process, interviews, DNA samples.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All kinds of stuff.

[A]

You know, should we have all the single people raise their hands right now or something, though?

[B]

Would that be no?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

We're not.

[B]

We're not doing it. Don't tempt me. We're not doing it.

[A]

I thought about calling a couple out, but then they told me not to, so I won't. Okay, this is going to be your last question.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You shared some really beautiful scriptures tonight in your message, and one of them was in Matthew 5. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. I love that passage. And I'd love for both of you to just real quickly hit, how can we have a pure heart in dating and in. In pursuit of marriage?

[C]

Go first.

[B]

So purity of heart in that passage is like undiluted. So it's like nothing added. So that your heart is full, fully focused on Jesus. And when your heart is fully focused on Jesus, you are going to value the other person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're going to treat the person as someone who Jesus loves and created and you're going to want that person to grow spiritually. And so you're going to want to go into the dating relationship thinking this. We're going to. You don't have to tell. You shouldn't say this on the first date. Like you know what I'm thinking, I'll know within a couple of months I'm going to marry you. And I don't freak somebody out. But internally we basically did do that kind of. But I just don't think it's necessarily the best thing to say to everybody right away. But this is what you want. You want the relationship to either go to marriage or that the person loves Jesus more than they did before they started dating you because they dated you. And that you could go to that person's wedding and meet their spouse and shake their hand and look them in the eye and be proud of how you treated that person.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So purity of heart in dating would be, I'm either going to marry this person or at the. When this doesn't end up becoming a marriage, I have a clear conscience before God that I treated this person the way Jesus wants me to treat this person. And this person was given every opportunity by being with me to love Jesus more. And I am proud of how I treated the person. I can look there future husband or wife in the eye. To me, that would be purity of heart in dating.

[C]

That's really good. I would say the first thing that came to my mind is impurity of dating is that you would go in with the right motivation. So in other words, you know, you're not going in looking for anything that's outside of what God says is allowed. So in other words, you're not just picking up girls to sleep with them. So if you're gonna, you're not, you're not just gonna date someone just to say that you can. You're not just going to. You're not, you're not gonna.

[B]

You.

[C]

It's you that's using something.

[B]

That is using something.

[C]

Yeah. And so I would say purity of heart would mean, number one, that your heart is right going in. So Your conscience is gonna clear. You're following Jesus, you're in a good, healthy place, and then you're clear with them about what you're doing. So I think that I've told my girl since they were really young now, and this is. They're like past this now, but I think, no, not really. Anyway, I told them since they were really young, talking about dating and boys. It's never been a subject off the table. I've always wanted to talk to me about it. That they've said, how do you know when you're ready to date? I think this still kind of applies. I've said, if you're loving and following Jesus and the boy is loving and following Jesus, those are two non negotiable. That's non negotiable, non negotiable. But when you think about dating someone, you have to ask yourself, will I be comfortable worshiping and sharing with him what God chose me in my time with him, with that person?

[B]

That's good.

[C]

Because if that person is not someone whose faith you're confident enough in that you can worship freely beside them and share with them what God's showing you in your quiet time, you should not date them. And the other thing I say is if you cannot have a boundary talk, and I'm talking like physical, emotional boundary talk, you cannot date.

[B]

That's good.

[C]

So to me, those things set you up for, for purity in dating. They're g. They're. They're giving you built in boundaries in dating.

[B]

That's so wise.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Incredible wisdom. Thank you guys so much.

[B]

And I want to say to all the podcast listeners how much we love our young adults. Thank you guys for being here. We love you guys so much.

[C]

So much. This is really fun.

[B]

Thank you guys.

[A]

And thank you guys for listening to the if I Had More Time podcast sa.