MM #262: Elon vs Trump: What It Means for Tesla, Startup Success Secrets & Paul Judge's Keys to $1B in Exits

Summary

Market Mondays: Episode #262 Summary

Title: Elon vs Trump: What It Means for Tesla, Startup Success Secrets & Paul Judge's Keys to $1B in Exits
Release Date: June 10, 2025
Host/Authors: Rashad Bilal, Troy Millings, and Special Guest Dr. Paul Judge

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1. Welcome and Recap of Previous Episodes (00:31 - 03:00)

The episode kicks off with hosts Rashad Bilal and Troy Millings welcoming listeners back. They reflect on recent successful episodes, notably the "Khaleesi" and "Blackout" segments, expressing gratitude towards their guests and audience engagement.

Notable Quote:

Paul Judge: "That was one of the best stories like that I've heard in a while. But you know what—the honesty is and the vulnerability." [02:48]

2. Introduction of Special Guest: Dr. Paul Judge (03:00 - 06:22)

The hosts introduce Dr. Paul Judge, a renowned venture capitalist with over $1 billion in company exits. They highlight his impressive background, including his Ph.D. in Computer Science from Georgia Tech and recognition by major publications.

Notable Quote:

Rashad Bilal: "Dr. Paul Judge, man. Somebody that's speaking on Invest Fest... over a billion dollars of exits." [03:24]

3. Invest Fest Overview and Lineup (06:22 - 12:49)

Discussing the upcoming Invest Fest event, the hosts outline its significance, featuring high-profile speakers such as Magic Johnson, Jack Dorsey, Issa Rae, and John Hope Bryant. They emphasize the event's focus on education, networking, and investment opportunities.

Notable Quote:

Rashad Bilal: "This is probably the most important one given the landscape that we're in... and there'll be exclusive deal flow." [04:24]

4. Robin Hood's Market Resurgence (07:09 - 12:49)

A deep dive into Robin Hood's impressive stock performance is presented. The hosts discuss its strategic pivots, including enhancements to the futures market and options trading, attributing success to leadership under Vlad and the platform's focus on serious traders.

Notable Quote:

Troy Millings: "They run from 32 up to 74 this year has been absolutely remarkable. You have to give him a lot of credit." [09:54]

5. Chinese EV Makers Surpassing Tesla (12:49 - 17:09)

The conversation shifts to the rise of Chinese electric vehicle (EV) manufacturers, particularly BYD's achievement in surpassing Tesla as the world's top EV seller in Q4 2023. The hosts analyze the implications for the American EV market and Tesla's competitive stance.

Notable Quote:

Paul Judge: "BYD surpassed Tesla in Q4 of 2023 as the world's top EV seller. Chinese brands now control 60% of the global EV battery." [14:14]

6. Elon Musk vs Donald Trump: Fallout and Tesla's Future (17:09 - 44:57)

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the fallout between Elon Musk and former President Donald Trump. The hosts discuss how Trump's threats to cut government contracts could impact Tesla's financial health and stock performance. They delve into Musk's leadership challenges and the broader political implications for Tesla.

Notable Quotes:

Rashad Bilal: "And he said, like, if these government contracts get cut, that's the quickest way to save billions of dollars." [33:15]
Paul Judge: "Tesla has received over $38 billion in various forms of government funding. The issue is that people aren't buying the cars like they used to." [37:06]

7. Invest Fest Pitch Competition with Dr. Paul Judge (56:34 - 119:56)

The hosts and Dr. Paul Judge introduce the Invest Fest Pitch Competition, a Shark Tank-style event offering $125,000 in investment to winning tech startups. They discuss the competition's structure, past successes, and the vital role of venture capital in scaling startups. Emphasis is placed on supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs and providing mentorship alongside funding.

Notable Quotes:

Paul Judge: "I'm being able to participate in the pitch competition is going to help people take their ideas to the next level." [56:34]
Rashad Bilal: "This is like bringing the Y Combinator to your door." [115:51]

8. Venture Capital Insights with Dr. Paul Judge (53:05 - 89:01)

Dr. Paul Judge shares his expertise on venture capital, emphasizing the importance of product-market fit, scaling efficiently, and building strong teams. He outlines key characteristics he looks for in founders, such as perseverance, vision, and the willingness to dedicate their lives to their ventures.

Notable Quotes:

Paul Judge: "Product market fit and founder market fit are crucial. Are you the person to win this particular market right now?" [72:42]
Ian Dunlap: "Find a problem that someone's willing to pay to have solved rather than focusing solely on the technology." [67:00]

9. AI Trends and Future Opportunities (59:09 - 76:17)

The discussion explores the evolution of artificial intelligence (AI), highlighting the shift from assistive software to agentic AI that can perform tasks autonomously. Dr. Judge predicts that AI will enable entrepreneurs to build scalable businesses rapidly, transforming industries like cybersecurity, finance, and healthcare.

Notable Quotes:

Ian Dunlap: "AI is shifting from just providing tools to actually reasoning and taking actions, reshaping industries like never before." [59:09]
Paul Judge: "Education is the only thing that's going to save us. So when we see tens of thousands of people come together for educational purposes, that's powerful." [28:43]

10. Closing Thoughts and Call to Action (120:22 - End)

Concluding the episode, the hosts and Dr. Judge reiterate the importance of events like Invest Fest for fostering entrepreneurship and providing critical investment opportunities. They encourage listeners to apply for the pitch competition, emphasizing the transformative potential of securing venture capital and mentorship.

Notable Quotes:

Rashad Bilal: "Invest Fest is the most important event yet. Apply for the pitch competition and seize the opportunity." [117:12]
Paul Judge: "Talent is everywhere, but opportunity isn't. Invest Fest is bridging that gap." [120:34]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Robin Hood's Resurgence: Strategic improvements and focus on serious trading have significantly boosted Robin Hood's market position.

• Chinese EV Dominance: BYD's surpassing of Tesla signifies a major shift in the global EV market, posing challenges for American manufacturers.

• Elon Musk and Political Fallout: The tension between Musk and Trump highlights the vulnerabilities of companies reliant on government contracts amid political disputes.

• Invest Fest's Impact: The upcoming Invest Fest, featuring high-profile speakers and a substantial pitch competition, aims to democratize access to venture capital and support underrepresented entrepreneurs.

• Venture Capital Strategies: Dr. Paul Judge emphasizes the importance of addressing real problems, achieving product-market fit, and building resilient teams for startup success.

• AI's Transformative Role: The evolution of AI from assistive tools to autonomous agents is creating unprecedented opportunities for rapid business scaling and industry disruption.

---

Notable Quotes with Attributions:

• Paul Judge: "Product market fit and founder market fit are crucial. Are you the person to win this particular market right now?" [72:42]

• Ian Dunlap: "AI is shifting from just providing tools to actually reasoning and taking actions, reshaping industries like never before." [59:09]

• Rashad Bilal: "Invest Fest is the most important event yet. Apply for the pitch competition and seize the opportunity." [117:12]

---

Conclusion:

Episode #262 of Market Mondays provides an insightful analysis of recent developments in the stock market, the competitive landscape of the EV industry, and the intricate dynamics between influential figures like Elon Musk and Donald Trump. The introduction of Dr. Paul Judge adds depth to the discussion, offering valuable venture capital perspectives and emphasizing the critical role of platforms like Invest Fest in nurturing the next generation of entrepreneurs. Listeners are encouraged to engage with these opportunities to advance their investment strategies and startup ambitions.

Transcript

[Ian Dunlap]

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[Rashad Bilal]

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[Troy Millings]

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[Ian Dunlap]

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[Troy Millings]

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[Ian Dunlap]

When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Paul Judge]

There's always a trade in.

[Troy Millings]

Not right now.

[Ian Dunlap]

@ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's okay.

[Ian Dunlap]

I don't really have much in my purse.

[Rashad Bilal]

Oh, let's see.

[Paul Judge]

Hand sanitizer.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's lavender.

[Troy Millings]

I'm good.

[Rashad Bilal]

Seriously.

[Paul Judge]

Let me check this pocket.

[Rashad Bilal]

Oh, mints.

[Ian Dunlap]

Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins.

[Troy Millings]

I'm a mom.

[Rashad Bilal]

Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Troy Millings]

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[Paul Judge]

Switch to T Mobile.

[Rashad Bilal]

Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with.

[Troy Millings]

Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Ian Dunlap]

New line, $100 plus a month on experience beyond finance agreement.

[Troy Millings]

$999.99 and qualify imported for well qualified. Plus tax and $10 connection charge payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end in balance due if you pay off early or.

[Rashad Bilal]

Cancel See t mobile.com you.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. Welcome back.

[Troy Millings]

Welcome back.

[Paul Judge]

Happy Monday.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yes, sir.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

A lot's changed since we last spoke, guys. They say that the girl's been fighting.

[Troy Millings]

We almost needed an emergency.

[Paul Judge]

I thought so broadcast. I felt like we were going that route, but it kind of happened at the same time as the Khaleesi episode. Shout out to everybody that tapped into that amazing episode. That one has gone crazy. Shout out to her and her entire team. That was dope, man. Like, it was dope doing it. And then watching the reception from it has been even in more incredible. So shout out to everybody that tapped in.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Salute. Shout out to Blackout too, man. That was a good one.

[Paul Judge]

That was saying that was last week.

[Troy Millings]

For sure. It's been a great week.

[Paul Judge]

Yo, shout out to Ace for being a good. A good Samaritan.

[Troy Millings]

For sure.

[Rashad Bilal]

Shout out to Ace, man, that was a good one.

[Paul Judge]

Yo, when y' all do, like, seriously do yourselves a favor. I want y' all to go back and watch the episode and just turn like the volume off during his segment and just watch your facial reactions to what he said.

[Troy Millings]

I was trying to keep myself.

[Paul Judge]

Hilarious, man.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah, never.

[Rashad Bilal]

Adult moment in black hilarious. That was, that was one of my, my favorite, personally, one of my favorite episodes.

[Troy Millings]

Me too. Me too.

[Paul Judge]

That was one of the best stories like that I've heard in a while. But you know what the, the, the honesty is and the vulnerability.

[Troy Millings]

I commend them. Yep.

[Paul Judge]

Gotta commend him on that.

[Rashad Bilal]

Best policy.

[Troy Millings]

I could never, though.

[Paul Judge]

Come on. Yeah, it's a safe space, right? It's a safe space, right?

[Rashad Bilal]

Man, we got a jam packed show today. We got a lot to talk about. Of course we're going to talk about that Invest Fest for sure. Line up. That dropped a few days ago. Also, we got a special guest on today.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Somebody that's speaking on Invest Fest, Dr. Paul Judge, man. Somebody that's a legend in the game.

[Paul Judge]

Absolute legend.

[Rashad Bilal]

If you're not familiar with him, you will be familiar with him later on, but, man, over a billion dollars of exits.

[Troy Millings]

Hold on, say it again.

[Rashad Bilal]

Over a billion dollars in exits.

[Troy Millings]

Hello.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, so, yeah, I think that the people that pulled up to Carnegie hall got a little glimpse of a conversation that we had with him and got to get to know who he is a little bit. But if you don't know, put this on your radar.

[Troy Millings]

And he's a good brother, too.

[Paul Judge]

One of the most solid.

[Troy Millings]

For real.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

So, all right, so this week, blackout. We back, 10 o' clock. Never miss blackout, man. You never know what's gonna happen. Never, never, never, never know what's gonna happen. And then of course, Eyl, that episode went so crazy, we're just gonna let it run. Make sure y' all watch the police episode. Yeah, we gotta let it run. We'll be back. But watch that police episode, man. Very, very, very, very insightful conversation. Shout out to Khalees and the whole team. Ian, any announcements?

[Troy Millings]

Yeah, when we neighbors in Kenya. Let me get my white and red shirt. If you want to get rich from the market, go to ianinvest.com where to get in, where to get out. Stock club prices are in Kajabi, please. Look there. A stock club call would be this Wednesday at 7pm Central. Then followed up by blackout at 9pm Central. If I made you money, please put yes in chat. Get your tickets to Invest Festival Red Panda. Your code is in. Telegram, please. It's probably the most important one given the landscape that we're in. And we're almost in World War III with maga. Hey, Joseph. All y' all. Hey, y' all better call.

[Paul Judge]

Oh, man.

[Troy Millings]

This is the messiest Caucasian divorce I've ever seen.

[Paul Judge]

Facts, they said. Who gets J.D. vance in the divorce?

[Troy Millings]

Peter Till he already had him. Yeah, we got to talk about code of conduct, too, by the way, fellas. Tune in. You can't overstep certain boundaries.

[Paul Judge]

There's consequences.

[Rashad Bilal]

Never hate the next man. You know that.

[Paul Judge]

So some. Some beef is everlasting, apparently. Okay, talk later. So you know how this works? This is a disclaimer. Do your own research. Content is intended to be used and must be used for informational purposes only. It's very important to do your own analysis before making any investment decision based on your own personal circumstances. You should take independent financial advice from a professional in connection with or independently research and verify any information that you find on the show and wish to rely upon whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise continue to do the research, share the research, give credit to where you got the research. Let's build community. Let's build our brokerage accounts. Let's build wealth. Let's love. Yo. Shout out to love.

[Troy Millings]

Yes.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

All right. Let's do it.

[Paul Judge]

I love the show.

[Troy Millings]

Yo, you funny.

[Paul Judge]

Lovely. Love will lead the way.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's a lot to talk about. We're going to talk about Elon and Trump, obviously. And I will be leaving the country this week. I'm going for some investigative journalism.

[Paul Judge]

Please.

[Troy Millings]

Okay.

[Rashad Bilal]

Location, please. See when I land.

[Paul Judge]

Momentarily.

[Rashad Bilal]

When I land.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

But this is for investive gate of journalistic purposes.

[Troy Millings]

Broadcast. Bilal. I love it.

[Rashad Bilal]

Live on the ground.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Blackout. You'll see it on Blackout.

[Paul Judge]

Yes.

[Rashad Bilal]

Okay, let's talk about. Before we talk about the Elon Trump situation, let's talk about. Okay, let's talk about actually. Robin Hood.

[Troy Millings]

Yes.

[Rashad Bilal]

A success story of. Of epic proportions over the last year. Shout out to Romaine at Bloomberg.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

But when we went. We went up there and we got to talk about Invest Fest and we got to talk about a variety of other things, but we talking about the stock market. And one of the things that he was talking about was Robin Hood. And you know, Robin Hood's a company that had. It was. It was tough times for. For a long Period of time.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

But man, they, they have an interesting chart. Right. Like it goes up, it goes down, it goes up. Rumors of them hitting the S P500 and you see the crypto boom of bitcoin going to all time highs and has held pretty steady. And we're good friends with the Robin Hood people. So what does this say about the future of Robin Hood?

[Troy Millings]

You got to give them credit. Not many times do we highlight companies that have turned things around in the face of adversity.

[Paul Judge]

Yep.

[Troy Millings]

I think Vlad at Robin Hood and Dara at Uber probably are two of the greatest examples over the last five years. The low at one point was 6.85 in 2022. Like until now to be at 75 pretty much and hitting the high of 77 last week. I think it just remarks to what happens when you keep your head down. You continue to make the platform better. I was really impressive with they what they've done with the futures market. For sure, they've made options very accessible and I know they were demonized for a long period of time. I got a conspiracy theory about that too. Like as soon as we began to have a platform that was championed by us that it immediately got attacked. I think they've done a great job of just turning around the business, staying focused, staying optimistic and every time you guys will talk to him more. But every time I've seen Vlad, certain entrepreneurs have that spark where it's like it does not matter what's going to happen. Like if a meteor comes his way, he's going to find a way to decentralize the meteor and put it on the market. He's just a hell of an entrepreneur. But in terms of the stock that run from 32 up to 74 this year has been absolutely remarkable. You have to give him a lot of credit.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. I think this is a prime example of a company, especially a CEO, when we talk about Vlad of leading into the criticism, and that's something that he talked about at that summit, was that the criticism was fair and people kind of used the gamification to almost criticize it. When the gamification was what actually brought a younger retail audience into it. And so it kind of got that stigma that this isn't a serious platform for serious traders, when in fact it 100 is a serious platform for serious traders. And as more people got educated on trading derivatives, options and futures and a younger population, that retail population that we're talking about began how to use that more sophisticatedly. They stayed with Robinhood.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

And then Robinhood, in turn, made it a better platform to do that. I know it started just as an app and then it turned to the desktop. And we got a chance to preview the desktop before pretty much the general population did. And you can see when the actual market, when the. When the Dow changed and the S and P started to tick up after 2022 and options trading start to begin to pick up again, you can see that stock price has changed as well. Then they started talking about where they're going in the future in terms of, hey, that gamification is something that we didn't have to run from. Now sports betting becomes something that they're adding into it. It's like, hey, he's seeing the wave of the future and he's not running away from it. He's actually adding to it and leading into it because that is where the population that uses Robin Hood is at. And so that. This is brilliant by him. Every. And like you said, this is a conviction that he has every time he speaks, especially when we speak to him. There's just a certain belief in an unwavering, like belief that, you know, we're on to the right thing. We're doing the right thing. We know who our competitors are, but we know who our audience is and we're going to lean into our audience because that's going to push us. And the stock has performed. We said this when we were there in November, like, watch out for Robin Hood. For sure they have something. We actually tested the product. The pirate is incredible. This is going to make it easier for retail investors. And these are the fruits of that labor.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah. And the net Profit margin is 48.77%. A dramatic rise from the. The losses they've had prior to. It's just a great company and I normally hate the brokerage business, but for them to have that kind of margin, a stranglehold on our generation and younger Robin Hood Gold is pretty damn good. Yeah. This company I would not want to bet against. And we keep saying the. The legacy companies in the Russell 2000 and S P600 that are underperforming, you're going to get replaced. And this is a prime example of a company that just gradually keeps getting better. It works like Siakam, like G League mvp, Most Improved Player, Toronto. Now it's like he may have a chance to get Finals MVP if this series goes a certain way. Robin Hood just gets better year over year. It's hard to deny.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah, Robin Hood. Okay, so let's talk about Chinese EV makers like byd, they're gaining global market share fast. So does this spell the final death.

[Troy Millings]

Blow to American auto in electronic vehicle space? Maybe my and this. We'll talk about the Trump situation later. I think Elon's only hope for Tesla is to form a partnership with maybe the second or third leading brand in that space and either buy them out or merge. If not, this breakup that they recently had is not going to bode well for the company. But China's doing incredibly well in a bunch of spaces that we should be doing well in. Once again, I don't think the autonomous vehicle network will be ready by Invest Fest. I would love for everybody to travel in a robo taxis in Atlanta by August 22, but I don't think it's going to happen. But I do think China's starting to get a lead in that EV space that we may not be able to recover if some things don't get right pretty soon.

[Paul Judge]

I'm gonna correct your. Your language there. They not. They haven't started. They, they passed them. So just by the numbers, I don't know, final death blow is the word I'm going to use, but I will say is a significant blow. Here are the numbers.

[Troy Millings]

Sure.

[Paul Judge]

BYD surpassed Tesla in Q4 of 2023 as the world's top EV seller. First blow, next blow. Chinese brands now control 60 of the global EV battery.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Paul Judge]

Right. Price advantage. BYD. Right. The seal. And we were in a cry and I was with Alvin, I was like, yo, what car was it was actually a BYD dolphin. Their models are 30 to 40 cheaper than their Western rivals, Tesla being the number one. So 30 to 40 cheaper. They have the Bradley production and they've already passed you in sales. Now what has helped? Tariffs have helped for sure because the American market is not going to buy a Chinese vehicle when there's tariffs on top of it. That's fine. Right? US sales are important. You need to help to help your company expand. It would be great. But here's what those tariffs have done. They have now allowed them to go into other markets. And so Latin America for sure. We saw it in Southeast Asia already. We talked about it last week in Africa.

[Ian Dunlap]

Right.

[Paul Judge]

You put tariffs there.

[Troy Millings]

Traction in Mexico, you show us a.

[Paul Judge]

More affordable and pretty much just as efficient car, if not better. You're going to lose global market space. And so this isn't even a think thing anymore. They have taken the lead in the EV space and they're going to continue to expand it. The other part of this is the supply chain how quick are they reinventing and creating new inventory? If you look at what BYD has done, every one to two years there's a new product. If you look at what we've done in the EV market, and I'll take Tesla, but we could use Ford as well. It's three to four years to put out new products.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

If you can't keep up with that pace, I mean, it's obvious you're going to fall behind and that's what's happened. And so how do we fix it?

[Troy Millings]

Can't fix it.

[Paul Judge]

I don't know if you can.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah. That gross margin has been better than Tesla's for probably two or three years. Market share has increased. And I know some of you who may watch the show may think that at times I'm saying things for theatrics, but that salute hurt him brand wise, worldwide.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

I don't know if that salute was worth. You can spin it that Kamala also did it. And at one time Martin Luther King did what? They didn't lose $200 billion in market cap after doing it though. So I think it's best to keep your political leanness. Unless you. Peter too, which he's in the shadows to keep your private opinions private. If you have a publicly traded company.

[Paul Judge]

And I, I think it brings up the bigger question. I think Shoddy had asked it maybe a few months ago and he's reiterated over time that if they can make a product at 30 to 40% less, then why are your margins the way they are? Right. Why are you charging 60,000 for an EV? Why are you charging 45,000 for an EV?

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

Right. So like you start to take it in the EV space, but then it could start expanding into other spaces as well.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

So we got to watch out for that as well.

[Rashad Bilal]

We'll see. We'll monitor the situation, ladies and gentlemen, but do want to take a quick break to acknowledge Invest Fest, please?

[Troy Millings]

Yes.

[Rashad Bilal]

The lineup is out.

[Paul Judge]

Please do.

[Rashad Bilal]

Ladies and gentlemen, August 22nd to August 24th, we got some names that you may be familiar with.

[Troy Millings]

Sure. Billionaire row again.

[Rashad Bilal]

Irvin. Magic Johnson. Somebody that's transcended sports entertainment, business franchises, sports teams, ownership. Billionaire. There's only 12 black billionaires in America. We've had how many?

[Troy Millings]

I talked to four. It's a hell of a run. Oh, hell of a run.

[Rashad Bilal]

Oh, man. Irving. Magic Johnson. Somebody that we've actually been trying to get for years. So stars align. We was able to get Magic. Magic will be headlining Invest Fest. Magical Conversation. Jack Dorsey.

[Troy Millings]

Hello.

[Rashad Bilal]

Very reclusive billionaire. So Jack Dorsey is the person that started coast. Founder of Twitter. He. When you look at Square now known as Block Cash app falls under that umbrella. Purchased Jay Z's company title Bitcoin maxi.

[Ian Dunlap]

For sure.

[Troy Millings]

One of the first.

[Rashad Bilal]

Some people. Some people have.

[Troy Millings]

Hello.

[Rashad Bilal]

Said that he may be Satoshi Nakamoto.

[Troy Millings]

Hello.

[Paul Judge]

Perhaps. I'll be honest with you. I can't. He was the first to ever wear the shirt that he knows on.

[Troy Millings]

I'm gonna do the Scotty Pippen. I'll talk to Satoshi.

[Paul Judge]

I've never seen anybody do it before. Perhaps he knows a thing or 2.

[Rashad Bilal]

Hoes. Hov's best friend. Should we say who's interviewing Jack Dorsey?

[Troy Millings]

Sure.

[Paul Judge]

Hey. Let's get the people that we can give them that.

[Rashad Bilal]

So, you know, we never. We've never done Market Mondays at Invest Fest before.

[Troy Millings]

That's odd. Right?

[Rashad Bilal]

We had to wait for a moment that was up to par. This will be that moment. Market Mondays live at Invest Fest featuring Jack Dorsey.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's only right.

[Troy Millings]

Yep. Block is the new. We'll see.

[Paul Judge]

Reparations is due for sure.

[Troy Millings]

Gotta talk to Hefe. Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Multi billionaire will be in the building. Issa Rae.

[Troy Millings]

That's incredible.

[Rashad Bilal]

A legend in the game when it comes to, you know, starting on a YouTube channel to taking over the world, taking over Hollywood. Right. Like, her story is absolutely legendary. Ownership ip. Some of the blueprint is by me.

[Paul Judge]

Sure. You want to talk about culture?

[Rashad Bilal]

Issa Ray. Legendary. Of course. We got the OG Steve Harvey coming back.

[Paul Judge]

Yes.

[Rashad Bilal]

Charlemagne. The. The God.

[Troy Millings]

Hey. Shout out to the guy, man.

[Rashad Bilal]

He built the empire over there.

[Paul Judge]

Still doing it.

[Rashad Bilal]

Talking about Black Effect. You're talking about his book imprint. You talking about brilliant idiots. The Breakfast Club.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

New York Times bestseller. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. One of. I think he has the most powerful voice in our culture.

[Paul Judge]

I was gonna say that. You could say. I put the word arguably. But the most important base in culture. Voice. I'm sorry.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah. When the presidents. When they need to talk to somebody, they're going to sit down with Charlemagne.

[Ian Dunlap]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

And even when we sat in some of those rooms, his name gets brought up. Even when he's not sure his name is getting brought up because they understand the importance of what he has to say.

[Rashad Bilal]

Two chains. We're gonna talk about his involvement. True Atlanta. Tabitha Brown.

[Troy Millings]

Legend.

[Rashad Bilal]

Legend in the game. Man. Became multi millionaire from her phone. When you're talking about deals with corporate. When you're talking about, you know, somebody that really monetized the actual virality of her content. Extremely smart. And then of course from the health standpoint, it's unbelievable. John Hope Bryant. He's been going crazy for sure.

[Troy Millings]

He's been on the table crazy.

[Rashad Bilal]

He's having a hell of a year but you know he's had a hell of a career. Mostly people might just get familiar with him now because of social media but you know, you're talking about somebody that owns over 700 homes and has done this for over 25, 30 years. Ian Dunlap will be in the building.

[Troy Millings]

Master investor himself.

[Rashad Bilal]

Wake it up. 19 keys. The legendary 19 keys. Salute the keys icon. He got some tricks up his sleeve. Pinky Cole legend living with especially especially the year that she's had. As far as going through everything that she's going through, I'm sure she got a lot to talk about. Foreign weaver people don't know about farm weaver.

[Paul Judge]

They better get familiar for sure.

[Rashad Bilal]

Google Farm Weavers network.

[Paul Judge]

One of the most legendary entrepreneurs, one of the most incredible people in black history ever. Bro. We we actually pulled up to her facilities. My gosh.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

My gosh. Ever in Tennessee. Please make it your absolute mandatory visit to go see the phone. We've been what they're doing at uncle nearest it is absolutely incredible man.

[Rashad Bilal]

There's too many names to name it. Dr. Cheyenne Broc Bryant. Jamal Bryant. Charge against target.

[Troy Millings]

Hey it's very pleasant.

[Rashad Bilal]

Hey it's very time sensitive that he's that he's a part of this conversation when it comes to invest fest Very influential look at Target stock.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. You just put dollar general on watch.

[Rashad Bilal]

My brother Steven Jackson stack.

[Paul Judge]

A real one.

[Rashad Bilal]

Little Russell can't talk about independence in this game without talking about the Russell man. Chris saying one of the one of the few people that we actually certify when it comes to stocks and investing good solid dude man over him did crazy pretty V that's family.

[Paul Judge]

Yep.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Philip Mitchell. We had him on blackout. He's going crazy this year.

[Paul Judge]

Yo. Can I tell you something right now? I told somebody that he was going to be there. I'll leave their name anonymous. Yeah. They cried in front of me. They couldn't believe it. They have been listening to him for for years now. They actually went to Atlanta to see him. They went to the church when I told him they didn't get to meet him like they wanted to when they went to the church but I said he's going to be at investors and she. She broke down and started crying.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah. Another great brother. Yep.

[Paul Judge]

Oh my God.

[Rashad Bilal]

There's too many people, man. Ryan Leslie, Shaka Boss. Chris Johnson, Bitcoin Maxi.

[Troy Millings]

Oh, I gotta go be.

[Rashad Bilal]

Chris Johnson will be after Chris, y' all. Chris, the highest ranking black CEO in Europe. On the continent of Europe. Check it. Google him. Paul Judge. We're going to talk to him a little. Angela Rod, Tamika Mallory, Derrick Hayes, Matthew Garland, Simba, My Song. Tiffany Cross, Ray Daniels. The list goes on, man. Look, we could be doing this for, for three hours. The bottom line is that there's no place like Invest Fest when you're talking about networking, when you talk about opportunities, when you're talking about the vendor marketplace. If you have a small business and you're not in the vendor marketplace, you're doing yourself a tremendous disservice. Vendor marketplace. There's, there's still a few booths left this year. We going crazy, man. Like, you know, they said that we couldn't do it, so we had to do it.

[Troy Millings]

It's a year round project. I commend y' all so much. Come, come get a form from the icons.

[Rashad Bilal]

Get your tickets, get your ticket to invest fest.com. you can take us in. A deal room has been opened if you have a platinum VIP ticket. We are curating a deal room over the course of the weekend where we will, we have exclusive deal flow whether it's in Africa, whether. I'm going to a place tomorrow and I'm going to be chronicling my experiences and I'll, I'll share the plugs.

[Troy Millings]

My boy Elon going to Mars.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's a lot of deal flow coming in these days. Platinum VIP members will be, will be part of that deal flow room. It's a lot, man. So go to invest fest.com. this is going to be a life changing experience and this is probably the best lineup and outside the lineup, the curriculum, artificial intelligence, investing, crypto. We got a bunch of stuff. Workshops, Africa.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Three days. We start early on Friday. That's something that we started last year. We continuing starts on Friday. So there's no way that you can't get value out of three full days. Friday is just workshops. Just workshops. Pure education. No, no celebrities. You never know.

[Paul Judge]

They might be walking around. I don't know.

[Troy Millings]

They're gonna be moving around.

[Rashad Bilal]

They could be just Saturday, Sunday, you know, we, we dropped the bombs and I'm looking forward to it. InvestBest.com ladies and gentlemen. Sorry to make you wait so long, but we had to.

[Paul Judge]

We hear now.

[Troy Millings]

It was worth the wait.

[Rashad Bilal]

Jack Dorsey. What a day.

[Troy Millings]

Who are you guys most looking forward to. To learning from and seeing an invest us.

[Paul Judge]

I think Jack Dorsey is up there. I'm interested in your presentation, man. I always take the time to stop whatever I'm doing to watch. Yeah, I gotta sit down and watch it just for the theatrics of it, but then the lessons that's coming from it. I want to see what Chris has to say as well, man. Shout out to Chris. Bitcoin is a topic that everybody's talking about. We were up at Bloomberg and you know that they wanted. They want to know about bitcoin, especially with retail investors, especially with this climate right now, especially with regulation. And we'll talk about circle ipo. And it's a moment right now. I want to hear the leaders in that. I'm excited for everybody, man. But so, like I try to go from stage A to stage B. Like I'm in the vendor marketplace. I just sit down and try to hide so I could just watch these things. Because I'm trying to learn, man. I'm always trying to learn.

[Troy Millings]

Have to.

[Rashad Bilal]

I'm most excited about Magic Johnson, Jack Dorsey and Issa Ray.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah. Because that's the hell of a three.

[Rashad Bilal]

Issa Ray is somebody that I'm really been following for a long time. And man, what she's been able to accomplish is just mind blowing. Jack Dorsey, I mean, that goes without saying. As far as he started Twitter, we could just end there. Like, I don't think you. Sometimes in life you got to have a full appreciation what we've actually been able to accomplish. We're bringing you the guy that started Twitter.

[Troy Millings]

Twitter? Yep. Icon, not black Twitter.

[Rashad Bilal]

Started Twitter, bro. And this, this is the most important event to me in black culture. No disrespect to any other event, because it's about education. We. We know how to have fun. We know how to party, we know how to dance, we know how to tell jokes. I respect all of that. But the education is the only thing that's going to save us. So when we see tens of thousands of people come together for educational purposes, that's dangerous. That's. That's the real dangerous to the power structure. Right. Like, not necessarily the NBA Finals, not necessarily the super bowl, not necessarily, you know, Hip Hop Award show. Those are great, entertaining and, and they're, they're, you know, I'm happy that people are making a living from it and it's helping the eagle, but that's not dangerous. Let's be honest. Yeah, but who are you most excited to see?

[Troy Millings]

Same Issa Ray. Because I think she's mastered that ip and not enough people talk about that matrix. Like, Chad has talked to me about this a lot. You guys have as well, if you get the IP with the investing baby. So her jack, of course. And I'm really interested to see what 19Keys has to say. I don't think Keys gets enough kudos and love on how far ahead of some of these talks that he's had. Like, we were talking about some of this stuff in AI three or four years ago, and just to see where we are now, I know people may not always see him in the light that he should be seen in. And don't get me wrong, commended, respected. But like, Keys to me is in a different stratosphere of intelligence in terms of being the future. So to me, Ray Kurzweil gets a lot of credit at Google. But to me, I think Keys is better than Ray just on the conversations that I've had personally with him. He was talking that humanoid robotic four years ago.

[Paul Judge]

I was like, what?

[Troy Millings]

So kudos to my guy. Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

And, yeah, shout out to Issa. They just got one of them days. This guy. Green light for sequel. Yeah. She wrote that movie, produced that movie.

[Rashad Bilal]

That was a good movie.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Now we gonna go. I'll get you get your tickets. Investfest.com. ladies and gentlemen, please. Now we're gonna go to the moment that everybody's been waiting for. Elon Musk versus Donald Trump. They had a major. I don't even know what to call it. It's a little bit more than a spat. They had a major fallout last week. Let's just say that.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

And it resulted in Tesla's stock dropping sharply.

[Paul Judge]

Rebounded a little bit, but 173 billion.

[Rashad Bilal]

It was one of these things where. And even over the weekend, Donald Trump, they said he had a phone call with an NBC reporter, and he said, if Elon even thinks about backing Democratic politicians, he's. He's gonna. He's gonna have severe consequences. And they said, what does that mean? He. He. He declined to comment on it. So, you know, a lot of people are saying that this is just for show, and this is. I. I personally don't see how this is in anybody's benefit for show because Elon is not getting back in the good graces of people that don't like Elon because of what he did. He's not going to be in their good graces now. And the thing about it is that I think he miscalculated his hand. And I think that, you know, if. If the rumors are true and he does use drugs at a high level. Then that was. That would, you know, make sense as far as his erratic behavior. But it's also something that would be extremely dangerous because when we were in Africa, somebody said something that was extremely insightful to us. They was like, the politicians have the most power. Right. When you look at somebody, like, there was a billionaire that I think he owned Chelsea football team. Was it Russian billionaire?

[Paul Judge]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And he was forced to sell his team. Long story short. Oh, yeah, this guy's worth like $10 billion, right?

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

And he owned Chelsea, which is one of the most valuable soccer teams in the world. And they were saying that, okay, imagine this. Imagine somebody worth 10 billion who owns one of the most valuable sports teams in the world has to sell his prize possession because somebody making €70,000 a year passes a bill in, in British Parliament. That. But, and that puts it in perspective though, right? Like, sure, these politicians have immense power and it's only so much that you can actually disrespect them before it's going to come back to you. Elon Musk has. It's one thing to back a political party. He's thoroughly disrespected the Democratic Party. Right. The whole entire party. Like.

[Troy Millings]

And while formerly being a Democrat and.

[Rashad Bilal]

Now you disrespect the most beloved Republican that we've seen since Ronald Reagan. Hate, hate or love Trump. Trump has a beloved following of supporters. He's not just a regular politician.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

So you disrespect the most beloved Republican from that standpoint that we've seen since Ronald Reagan, and you disrespect the whole entire Democratic Party. But where does that leave you? They've already called for his deport to be deported.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

A lot of Republicans now are saying, like, they, they happy that he's. He did this because they couldn't stand him. They just couldn't say anything. I think he's made a lot of enemies quickly. And now Trump is saying that he has no, he has no benefit in, like, he doesn't need Elon anymore. He already won the election.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Elon needs him.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

He said, like, if these, if these government contracts get cut, that's the quickest way to save billions of dollars. If people don't know. Elon Musk has probably the highest amount of government contracts as far as amount of money that's paid out than anybody in the world. And just by him saying that it dropped Tesla stock by $50.

[Paul Judge]

$50 in 173 billion in market cap in a day.

[Rashad Bilal]

So what do we make of this.

[Troy Millings]

Trump Elon number one. I told you. I give you credit. You was the first person I ever heard say that Elon acts like Kanye. And given the drug use.

[Rashad Bilal]

Oh, and do remember that. Yes. It's. It's been documented that we have talked about this six months ago and endlessly.

[Troy Millings]

Yep. For those who think this is just a brother, over the weekend was like, yo, you're doing this and you're falling for the scheme. I've talked to people in the White House and both administrations. This is not a WCW rap fe plot. I promise you that. But I told you, going into the election, given their personality types of one of the things you need to do, it's a valuable lesson when you're looking to invest in something you especially with Chad GPT, it's a lot easier to look at the history of fallouts that a person has had with those they've done business with. Rule number two, I really have a hard time trusting the character of someone who publicly has fallen out with their mother or father the way that Elon has. Take the wealth part aside, it says a lot to me when a person can't take care of their children or be a great child. I don't give a damn what my parents have done. I'm not ever going to publicly berate my family. So if you're willing to do that, it's easy to fall out with Trump and Trump is a bit of the same way. Lastly, the network effect matters a lot. Elon thought he can buy his way into the White House and disrespect everyone in the office. And I'm gonna okay, if you and I get along, Troy and Rashad, but me and AB get into it every week. How long is the relationship going? Like, let's be real. Not that long. When you're getting into it with JD Vance, the treasurer Secretary, you got punched in the face in the White House allegedly. How like the Commerce secretary you're getting into your kid wiping boogers on a White House desk. For those you don't know, as an entrepreneur, it's not always the person at the top that you have to get along with. It's the people who work with them on a daily basis that are family to them that you must get along with as well. So you don't get your water cut off. Yes, still one of the richest men in history. But then if Trump starts to dig into that how he got into the country and some of the back check like notice sacks And Calacanis who have respect and Calican is love for Dilly, are friends with Elon. They haven't done anything to support him after this fight that tells you there's some that's off there with what Elon is doing. So this is not political gesturing or plot to get us to not see the other issues that are going on in the world. He just overplayed his hand.

[Paul Judge]

He overplayed it. I mean just the timeline of it. Right. You talked about the Nazi salute. We talked about potentially the ketamine addiction.

[Troy Millings]

Told you y' all thought that was a joke. It's like, okay, I know I'm black, so it's only a certain amount of credit I'm going to get. Not to cut you off, but the things that we're reporting, we've never been sued over. Why? Because you can't get sued over Truth. Like don't take this for granted. Like we were breaking this before the world got a hold to it. And the other part is if you put up 288 to help me get elected and you start acting stupid, playboy, I'm already in here. Go home. Go home.

[Paul Judge]

Roger.

[Troy Millings]

Do your little rockets and I'm gonna cut your funding off from that too.

[Paul Judge]

See, so that, that right. So the erratic behavior is something that's not new. You then said that the, the President of the United States was in the Epstein files, which would suggest something a lot more serious. And that was just in the first four hours of this little dispute that turned into something far greater. What does it mean for Tesla? It's tough, right? When you talk about government contracting, you kind of allude to it that they've, they've received more than pretty much anybody since 2006. Tesla has received over 38 billion in, in various forms of government funding. A lot of it comes from the regulatory credits. Right. So like when you talk about states like Nevada, you're talking about states down New York, you get incentives for buying an EV that money gets credited.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

The issue is that that is maybe 15 to 20% of their revenue. It's a problem. It's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem in terms of Tesla still is people aren't buying the cars like they used to. And so if you take those incentives, how, how thin do the profit margins now become?

[Troy Millings]

I think they're already at 4.9 net profit margin. You can't afford like, I don't know, like what case studies. Most people have looked at being in tour with a President of the United States while Being an American entrepreneur does not do well on the SWOT analysis. I don't care what politically you have.

[Paul Judge]

So now it comes back to this, this government piece. If you don't have that support, right, your most important innovation is about to happen in the next three to six months. Right. The robo taxi and the fully autonomous driving vehicles. That's the biggest innovation. Right. When we're talking about future valuation. This is why people have bought into Tesla stocks. This is why they've held on, they waited for these type of moments. If you don't have subsidies, if you're not getting credits for that, those profit margins get even thinner. What we talked about earlier is a bigger problem. If you don't have the United States market, who do you have?

[Troy Millings]

And you can't easily walk into China. You can try and do the make Europe great again thing if you want to, but that's will be short lived. And after Sam stole that company from you, like how does one of the smartest people on earth in Elon get a company taken from him with the most important technology of this generation, drug use.

[Paul Judge]

So and, and we've been saying It like all 20, 25, the numbers don't make sense.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah, right.

[Paul Judge]

We watch sales go down, we watch the cyber truck be discontinued and people. And still the stock moves up because of the belief that he's now going to be focused. Well what happens when focusing is not enough? Yeah, right. Like when the numbers actually have to make sense and if this doesn't deliver, what's, what's the next step? Right. Because if you're not going to get the government funding, you're not going to get subsidies, are you going to bring price down? What is the thing? Is AI going to be the way for you? I don't, it's, it's murky, it's real murky. This doesn't help. Right. And even with the stock ticking up, I think they lost 15 on, on Thursday it went up 10, you're still down 5%. The numbers are gonna have to start matching, right?

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

And there's a big heavy, heavy competitor that, taking over world and global dominance that you got to compete with in your space. And so there's a lot, there's a lot weighing on the company, especially him over the next six, three to six months for sure.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah. On what's next you brought this up too that even on Uber it's not a premium bride anymore. Just now it's even be declassified.

[Rashad Bilal]

So, and, and that brings to the point of Tesla, right? Like okay. Elon and Trump is one thing, but what is the future of Tesla and Tesla stock? So this all is because from Elon standpoint, he's mad because he said that he thinks that it's just too much spending in the bill. What Trump is saying that Elon is mad because they took away the EV tax credit. So depending on who you're listening to, you'll get different sides of the story. But regardless of anything, Tesla has problems and Elon doing this doesn't help. The problems. You talked about Tim Cook needing to get fired. I think you gotta start calling for Elon. The board, the Tesla board. Somebody's got to step in because he's going to sabotage this company. And I just don't see a pathway forward. I don't see a pathway forward with this White House because I feel like Trump is a person that he remembers things and he holds grudges. Yeah. And if he starts to lose government contracts, he's in real trouble.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. Well, he pulled back. He said he was going to decommission SpaceX from having missions out because they were the only ones that could send a rocket out and go. But he turned back, he said, you know what, that was a little out of line. We're not going to decommission. He sold it. Right.

[Rashad Bilal]

So, but the thing about it, because I was talking to somebody, it was like, well, it's not real. Because if it is real, then Trump would take away his contract. So I'm like, well, it's not, it's not as simple as that.

[Paul Judge]

Right.

[Rashad Bilal]

Because he has a monopoly. So it's not like, you know, you just have readily available companies that can just come in and just fill a place.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

So even if they want to, it's not as easy. But that doesn't mean that they're not potentially making plans or guarding support. There's always a competitor. Even if the competitor is not ready to take your spot, they'll make one.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

I mean, you still got Blue Origin, you got a bunch of companies that they're not SpaceX.

[Paul Judge]

Right.

[Rashad Bilal]

But given enough help and enough resources, five years from now, they could potentially. I don't think this is something that you see the effects right now, today. But like I said, the Democrats, I don't think they're going to forget the way he treated them. And I don't think the Republicans are going to forget what he did. So now you put yourself in a very tough spot politically and you need politicians because politicians are the ones that ultimately fund these things. Right. The Bills, write the laws. And you, you, you making enemies with. With the government officials is not something that's intelligent.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. And that's what the. And we spoke about, having the main thing be the main thing. Right. Like that main thing has to stay the main thing because that's what got you here, right? Yes. Neuralink is important. Yes. SpaceX is important. Tesla's what got you here. And that's what takes the bills for now. Right. But if those sales start to come down, those margins get thinner. Right. That 7, 500 that the state used to give you for every vehicle that you would buy, especially if you're in New York, that's gone. Where do we make that up at?

[Troy Millings]

And then a political hedge fund connection is not being talked about enough. Like there are a bunch of Bitcoin maxis. Right? What hedge fund is a Tesla maxi? Has been for. There isn't any.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, and that, that part you just brought up is important. This isn't a, hey, we'll wait this administration out.

[Troy Millings]

No, no, you have enemies on both sides and in other countries.

[Paul Judge]

Right. You wait this administration out. The next administration comes in, they're gonna remember, too.

[Rashad Bilal]

And he already said if he finds Democrats, it's going to be severe consequences. What does.

[Troy Millings]

I'm going to tell the truth about how you may not have applied the way you should to be in this country and how you got certain funding. Like, it's a. And. And it's a great lesson for entrepreneurs. Never fight with a person who's willing to fight forever. Rashad, we have this conference. At least the more you're like, hey, I don't know if you want to go down this path. He's not gonna. Okay, cool.

[Rashad Bilal]

And then the thing about it, too, is that he lacks discipline. They both lack discipline.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

But this is a perfect example of if you're an undisciplined person, it's only a matter of time before you're going to unravel. And him just saying anything on Twitter, and, And you could tell that he really didn't want to because he. He kind of cleaned it up. He tried to clean it up.

[Troy Millings]

He tried to. It was too late.

[Rashad Bilal]

Like, he was like, yo, you're right, you know, we should actually. We don't need to be fighting. But you've already. Sometimes in life, it's like being in a relationship. Sometimes you say things that you can't take back. Right. In the heat of the moment. In the heat of the moment. Sometimes you lack discipline. You might. You might. You might be an argument with your wife. You've said something. You went too far. And then now the next day you wake up and you like them. I didn't really mean it. But what you said is. Can never be erased.

[Troy Millings]

I'm gonna go to Invest Fest and find my next wife. Don't say that.

[Paul Judge]

For real.

[Rashad Bilal]

This is going to be an interesting case study. I mean, Elon obviously is intelligent to make it this far in life. Right. I'm not gonna say that he's. That he's a stupid person. I just think that he might have a drug addiction. He likes discipline. But it'll be interesting to see if he. How he. How he maneuvers. Because it's not just America. He's made enemies politically all over the globe.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

In Europe. And he, he's. He's chosen a side. And you gotta understand, when you choose a side, there's another side. That's why, that's why most billionaires don't take active roles in politics. They're soft power.

[Paul Judge]

Could it have been like two truths and maybe one fabrication? Do we not think he helped him win the election?

[Troy Millings]

Of course, he definitely did. You can look at the polling data, but you also can go so far. I always said it was a mistake to be so close to Trump to make it seem like you were the president. You cannot do that. Right.

[Paul Judge]

Who's leading the country?

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

He's gonna remind you.

[Troy Millings]

You can't even have the perception just because of the, the George W. Bush, Rumsfeld kerfuffle that happened. Like Republicans are very sensitive to that look of being a puppet for someone else.

[Paul Judge]

Right. Dick Cheney's war, like, things like that. You know, you've seen that over and.

[Troy Millings]

Over and it's better to be Peter Till.

[Rashad Bilal]

So what it, what is your. What's your. So long story short is Tesla buy or sell?

[Troy Millings]

It's a buy if it gets back down to like 1.89.22. And. But that, like you said, there has to be a serious conversation about succession planning. And I was trying to think about this this weekend. I can't think of one person who is guaranteeing Alpha if they're CEO, because it's almost like a contagious company at this point. I was trying to wake this up two or three years ago from when I was talking to employees at Tesla here in Texas. Like, there's a lot of things that they've escaped. Administrative practices, racist hiring. It's a lot of things in that company. Unless you worked in a company that you don't know. But there's Time for him to move to the chairman and then they have to find a CEO.

[Paul Judge]

When they interviewed the board last month, 90 of them said, let's keep them. That was after the Nazi salute. That might have been right before the, the black eye. That was when they had the Tesla vehicles outside the White House. Yeah, 90 of the board. That's before obviously what happened last week.

[Troy Millings]

That's a great decision for their careers as well.

[Paul Judge]

Right?

[Troy Millings]

You have to be very honest. A person with that much power, you don't want to be on his enemy list.

[Rashad Bilal]

And it also goes back to my theory that nobody is bigger than the program.

[Troy Millings]

It's not true. Okay, come on.

[Rashad Bilal]

All right. Nobody's bigger than the program on the planet. He's the wealthiest person on the planet. Right. And what did Donald Trump say? There's going to be extreme consequences if he does this. And he's there already told me he needs to be deported and we're going to take away government contracts.

[Troy Millings]

Like nobody has some truth in that though.

[Rashad Bilal]

There's nobody bigger than the program.

[Paul Judge]

Why would he. Right. Like why would he say that?

[Rashad Bilal]

He thought, I think for a moment he thought that he was bigger than the program.

[Troy Millings]

Can we define what the program is? I just don't like the originator who said it. I'm gonna be real. I don't like him saying it for the he's done.

[Rashad Bilal]

But the lesson, some things can be true even if the messenger true is. Is not.

[Troy Millings]

Like who created the program.

[Rashad Bilal]

How would that be?

[Paul Judge]

Them them and they them they did.

[Rashad Bilal]

We'll see. We'll see.

[Troy Millings]

But Elon man, and there's a negative return on how many enemies you have too. That's why like when we get on a lot of you podcasters for having beef and etc, you think that it's going to give you a return or more views is also going to like hint like there's a negative return of 3x of having four or five people who truly hate you that's going to go out of their way to destroy your life.

[Paul Judge]

Long term, we. You stay with the stock. I mean if the, if the autonomous road map and the AI roadmap is clear and I guess he kind of gets focused. Obviously we're talking about the short term, but long term, three, five, 10 years.

[Troy Millings]

They need a new CEO. And to be honest, even for the stock to hover at 290, this stock should be a 5 or 600 stock given how much fanfare and love that it has.

[Rashad Bilal]

It's the same thing. When I stole, I sold Tesla and then it went up and then it came back down. I never supported Donald Trump for. For one reason. You can't do a good deal with a bad person. Remember that. You could take that for whatever you wanted to take it for. But ultimately it's is one of these universal truths that always comes through true boomerang effect. You can't do a good deal with a bad person. You're trying to look at numbers, you're trying to look at statistics, you're trying to look at, is this person a good person or is this person a bad person?

[Troy Millings]

Because those characteristics end up bleeding into the culture of the company. And if we look the high at 370, 133, it hit that double top. For all my technical analysis, people got to the high. 394 fell apart. Then, is it. And if we're going to be honest, just about the product, the car is not great. If you take the Hyundai logo off the hand, some of them tell you rides and slap a Tesla on it. Byd, Mercedes. And that's the other part in the automotive industry, he's made a lot of. Ended a lot of enemies in the industry. Actively with BMW. Actively with. Like when you had the two racist factions fighting BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari. You have too many people aiming at you from everywhere. That's not going to go well. It's not going to go. And regardless of what people say, the car is not great. Car is not great. I keep saying it was a mistake. Luxury.

[Paul Judge]

When you talk about the valuation and how it's trading, it's got it. It's not gonna be. It's the robotics. It's. It's the AI. It's the autonomous vehicles. That's. That's the roadmap. This is why it has the valuation. This is why it trades at the multiple. It trades at that. That's why. So if this doesn't start changing very soon, it could get muddy.

[Troy Millings]

I'll give them a year and a half. They got to figure out a road map for Tesla.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, they said that the head of robotics actually resigned.

[Rashad Bilal]

Anytime I'm starting his own political party, he's got, bro.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah, Went back into hiding. That's not gonna work, bro.

[Rashad Bilal]

He's delusional. He's really. He's really, really making a lot of bad decisions.

[Troy Millings]

Yep. The Peter Till approach is much better. Invest in you quietly and then step back. I'll have power from. Yep. From behind the scenes. Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Okay. Well, with that said, we do have a guest that will bring on whenever he's ready. I'm not sure if he, if he's ready yet, but we will bring our esteemed guest on oh Paul, stay ready when he's ready. But in the meantime, as we wait for him to come, how do you feel about Tom Lee saying that we recently hit a new bull market in April 7 and he still holds for the S p to hit 6600 by the end of the year?

[Troy Millings]

Shout to my investing twin. I said the same thing, that the run would be over on the negative side in less than 62 days. We're there. One thing I need you to know that the market is permanently rigged to stay up. Going back to the nobody bigger than the program that invest in vehicle machine that runs the the back half or the back engine of America. It doesn't matter. Regardless of political unrest or war or sanctions or political unrest. It doesn't matter like that. That machine is always going to go higher regardless of debt to gdp. The one machine that is always going to work is the American stock market. So I agree a thousand percent. I think we're, we're going to have some turbulence going into probably July or August, which would make my Invest Fest performance even much better. But by September, October and towards the end of the year, I think we're going to be great. And I think even the indices have done a great job at rebalancing the companies who should not be in and taking those that are underperforming out. So I agree a thousand percent.

[Paul Judge]

I'm with Tom Lee. I like his optimism. I've always liked his optimism. So every time I watch him I'm like, all right, here comes the optimistic. It's kind of like when I watch Dan Ives when it, when he talks about technology, especially about Apple, I just like the optimism and outlook that they have. I think you're spot on. There's going to be some turmoil definitely during the summer months. For this reason, tariffs were put into place in early April. So those numbers, those earnings and those valuations for the companies, it didn't really take effect till this quarter and they won't be reported to the next one. And so what we'll start to see in July is what those effects of tariffs we saw, like preliminary stuff. When we talk about Lululemon, what just happened to them?

[Troy Millings]

Right.

[Paul Judge]

Those are just preliminary numbers. We haven't really seen a full quarter of these proposed tariffs and how they're going to affect each company. We will start to see that when the next earnings reports come out. And so there will be a Some slight turmoil with the, you know, systemic turmoil. We already know what happens in late August and early September, especially when it comes to technology and how companies now get to reset and some of their fiscal years end. So we will. But I think in the end, I'm with. I'm with Tom. I'm with you. I believe we still hit the targets that we have for the outlook. He had it at 65, 6600 for the S P, which is promising. That means there's still some more upside.

[Troy Millings]

To go as AI get 100 better three to four times a year. Are you just the time you want to short the market, don't you do it?

[Paul Judge]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

All right, well, let's bring our guest up, shall we? All right, so we now will have a conversation with the legend himself, Paul Judge. Doctor.

[Paul Judge]

Dr. Paul.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yes, man. First and foremost, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it.

[Ian Dunlap]

A pleasure to be here with y' all, man. Good to see you.

[Rashad Bilal]

No, for sure. So let me give some background for people that might not be fully familiar because Paul's one of these guys that's behind the scenes and he is very soft spoken and he's like, kind of stays out, out of the limelight. But if you know, you know, but it's important to highlight people that may not be as well known but are doing tremendously major things because. Absolutely, a lot of the audience may not be in this circle to actually know. Right. So when you're talking about Paul, I mean, legendary VC investor, Atlanta, Georgia, generated over $1 billion in company exits.

[Troy Millings]

Hello.

[Rashad Bilal]

Multiple ventures man, co founder of CyberTrust, sold for 273 million. You know, you talk about having a PhD in computer science from Georgia Tech, been recognized by Fortune, mit, Black Enterprise, the list goes on. We actually spoke with Paul at Carnegie hall with Robert Smith. So Paul is a very highly successful. He's one of the most successful black people in America, for sure.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

That's a fact. So we should start with that.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Paul Judge]

Shame on you if you didn't know who he is.

[Rashad Bilal]

Tech in the tech space. He invested in a lot of tech startup companies. It has a tremendous track record of, you know, really having successful companies, you know, make it to the big leagues.

[Paul Judge]

And I think one of the most important things he said with us that night is that AI is something that is new to this generation, but it's been something that we've been working on for 25 plus years. And I went home thinking to myself, wow, wow. So there's a wealth of knowledge that comes with this gentleman. So we Appreciate you being here.

[Ian Dunlap]

Amen. A pleasure to be here. Great to see you guys again.

[Rashad Bilal]

Oh, for sure. So, yeah, let's, let's talk about it. Let's, let's start with AI, because that's the last time that, when we spoke on Carnegie hall, that was two years ago and so much has happened since then in the world of AI. So you, as somebody that's been in tech for a long time, what are you seeing as far as the next wave of AI? I know Robert Smith was talking to us about personal AI agents. He felt like that was going to be like the next thing that's going to really hit big. What do you see as far as the next, the next thing that people should be aware of in artificial intelligence?

[Ian Dunlap]

I think Rob is absolutely right with that. We all talked about at Carnegie about it. I was mentioning, you know, back 20 years ago, we're building that first company, Cipher Trust. We were using machine learning to make a decision for a human, right? Like what email should someone receive, which one should go into your spam folder. And we were being predictive based on content analysis and using, you know, supervised unsupervised learning algorithms. And you know, me and my team from that company probably have dozens of patents that have been issued towards doing that, right? But fast forward, you know, with generative AI, you know, it can now actually create more content as, you know, well, right, from the videos to the, to the text to the social media. But now it's like the bar has changed, right? We, we've lived through these different trends, right? We live through the trend of connecting computers to the Internet and everything that enable. We live through the trend of cloud and being able to access your information remotely and everything that enabled and then, and mobile and then this entire phase of like SaaS, like software as a service. And it's interesting, SaaS was all about let me give you software so that you can do your job easier or better. Like, let me give you software to help you manage your workflow. Now that's not enough. I don't want software to help me manage my workflow. I want the software to do the work for me, right? And that is this shift from AI to agentic, that the software is no longer just a matter of giving you a GUI to manage a workflow. The software can reason, it can dev deduction, it can actually take actions, it can send emails, it can book travel. And it's reshaping industries like we've never seen. The ability to get in and write the software itself, deploy the Software do the optimization, test on a B, testing on what ads are performing better than others, to email the customers, call the customers, run customer support. It's allowing companies to be built faster than ever before and with fewer employees than ever before. There's this saying now that we'll soon see a company that's a billion dollar company that only has one employee. Yeah, right. And it sounds, you know, it sounds unreasonable, unreachable, but you think about when Instagram was acquired, very few employees and were able to generate so much value per employee and when WhatsApp was acquired, very few employees. But now we're going down that curve where we'll soon see a team of one or two build a billion dollar company. And it's creating one of the best times ever, I think, to be an entrepreneur, one of the best times ever to be an investor. Because the value creation is happening so swiftly. You can build a company from an idea and quickly have a company that's 10, 20, 50, $100 million of revenue. The last part about it is it's new to everyone. Everyone's learning it from scratch right now. And so in some ways it levels the playing field. Right. So some ways, if you didn't come from technology or you didn't come from a certain education, you have the opportunity to learn it just as fast as the next person. And if you didn't necessarily learn software engineering. Yep, I did computer science, Ph.D. as you mentioned. But nowadays you can just describe to the system what software you want it to build and it will build a database schema, write the code, deploy the code to the cloud for you. And so the on ramp to go from idea to software to company as entrepreneurs is faster than ever. And so it's really exciting. It's kind of like watching the Internet grow all over again for the first time.

[Paul Judge]

This is a very important time. And you brought up the education piece is where I want to kind of touch on. Because yes, you did study software engineering. But. But the next cohort of young adults, especially that look like us, where should they be focusing? Is it in agentic, is it in large language modeling? I know it feels like we get light years behind or we're just catching wind to it. Is it defense AI? When you see companies like Palantir, where should like this cohort of new people who graduated or studying now, where should they be focusing in terms of AI intelligence?

[Ian Dunlap]

I would say to, to focus on a problem to solve versus focusing on the technology tool. Right. So find a problem that someone's willing to Pay to have solved. Right. But think of it as a valuable problem. It's a lesson I had to learn in grad school. Right. In grad school, we were solving these very hard, difficult problems, but they were not necessarily valuable ones. They were not necessarily, you know, you're solving a theorem that's been sitting around for 30 years, but no one necessarily wanted to pay you to solve that theorem. Yeah, but if you go into a business and an enterprise like, okay, what problems do you have that I can solve that will be valuable to you? And it's usually around helping a business increase revenue or decrease expenses. Right. And that way you're delivering an roi. Right. You look at the, the work I do in technology, as you mentioned, I've been doing it for a long time, but I don't do a lot of work around consumer technology. Right. It's a very big space, very important space. That's not my specialty. What I tend to understand is give me a business and let me find a problem within that business that I can write software to solve for them. And I tend to think about that across three layers. No matter what kind of business you are, healthcare business or a manufacturing business, there's three things that most businesses have in common. One is they have a layer of infrastructure, right? You have, you have data, you have compute, you have networking, you have software, you have a layer of IT infrastructure. Then another thing that most businesses have in common is the next layer is finance or the money. Right. The money has to move, you have to pay bills, you have to get your account receivables, you have to pay payroll. And so there's a layer of finance in every business. And then lastly, you have people, and you need to care for and optimize your people. So you have training, you have upskilling, you have health, tech, healthcare. And so I tend to spend my time looking at those three layers within a business and finding problems to solve and seeing how software is disrupting things within there. So in IT infrastructure, this shift from cloud to AI to agentic it is uncovering lots of opportunities to go build companies to help businesses understand that and manage that scale, that secure that. Cybersecurity is an industry that's still hundreds of billions of dollars and it's been around for 20 or 30 years is the gift that keeps giving in many ways. Because every time there's a new platform, the cybercriminals will spend their days and nights trying to figure out how to break it. And so that creates lots of opportunities, to your point, for the Next generation of entrepreneurs. When you look at finance, what's happening now, open banking, the globalizations creating this need for cross border payments, there's this need for embedded finance. There's a saying that every software company is, is ultimately a fintech. Every software company needs to move money around. And so embedded finance is a huge area that we spend time and then lastly software around the people. As AI disrupts many things, you have to decide, well, how do you deal with your workforce, how do you upskill, how do you retrain, how do you deal with health tech? I mean we look at health care in this country, it's a $4 trillion industry.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Ian Dunlap]

And there's lots of efficiencies, inefficiencies there. Right. And so there's room for improvement around healthcare. And so I tend to say don't go focus first on the technology. Focus on going to find a problem that you can solve. Go find one customer, solve it for and then another and then another. And that's when you have a business, that's when you start to have repeatable recurring revenue.

[Troy Millings]

For the viewers watching tonight, given that point, how do they find a way to keep an edge in technology? When it seems like AI, LLMs and agentic is kind of taken away a lot of the advantages that or skill sets that entrepreneurs used to have and which tech stacks are you most excited about?

[Ian Dunlap]

How to keep up to your point. It changes every week right now, you know to, you're mentioning Carnegie two years ago we talked about AI and now fast forward, it's proven to us every week and every month that as soon as there's a saying, as soon as you say oh, AI is good at that, but it's not good at this and then next month. Yep, it has that as well. And so I think it's again, not so much chasing the particular problem or excuse me, not the particular technology but, but finding the problem. Look, right now there's probably a dozen different platforms that are good enough to go build no code software. And so you could sit and you could spend a year debating which one to use. Right. Should I use cursor? Should I use flutter flow? Should I use. You could spend a year figuring out which one is the best and they're going to change and improve every week. And so it's just really about grabbing one and jumping in and get started on building something and you know, build something that you put out in front of customers as soon as possible. And so that's, that's one of the keys, like not staying kind of behind the closed door too long, tinkering with it without customer feedback. That customer discovery is one of the best ways to figure out if you're solving something that really matters and like how people want to integrate it into their enterprise. And so in each one of these, there's, there's dozens of tools, but you, they move so much that you can't wait and you just have to jump in and, and get great at one of them and start building something and get it in front of customers as soon as possible.

[Rashad Bilal]

So from an investing side, you know, venture capital, you, as I said, you had over $1 billion worth of exits. And you know, that's the point of vc, right? Like you take a company, you invest in a company, build the company up with the expectation that it can either go public on the stock market or it gets purchased by a larger company, right? And then everybody makes a bunch of money and then kind of rinse and repeat. So what, what lessons have have you learned? Like, what valuable lessons have you learned as far as, you know, helping these smaller companies become larger companies and exiting down the road?

[Ian Dunlap]

I think there's a number of things, you know, so many of the large companies, say the tech titans, right? You all spend a lot of time, you know, informing and educating people about, you know, say the Magnificent Seven and others. Each one of those companies started off as a startup, right? Each one of those public companies started as a startup. And matter of fact, if you look at the Magnificent Seven, each one of them received venture capital funding before they were publicly traded company. So someone had a chance to participate in the first round of each one of those companies.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah, right.

[Ian Dunlap]

Alpha Meta, Nvidia, each one of those. And so there's this saying, I guess Jeff Bezos likes of big things start small. And so as an investor, that keeps us really curious, that keeps us up at night kind of looking for that next entrepreneur. And so many of those companies started off with just really modest funding, right? The story goes that Google started off with $100,000 check, Meta started off with a $500,000 check, Apple with 250K. And so it's really small beginnings. But I think it comes down to not the headline about how much funding you raise, not the headline about what your valuation is, but really how fast can you get to product market fit, right? How fast can you get to a product that someone's willing to trade you time and money for, right? Because these enterprises are, they're so busy and the demand on their time to come in and deploy something into their network, integrate something into their network. You have to really find a pain point and be able to clearly communicate what your ROI is to them. And then once you do that, the next big lesson is you want to scale. You have to build an amazing team. Right. We all start with our friends and family who are around, but then how do you go build a world class Olympic team? Like to say that if you're going after building a billion dollar company, it's like the Olympics, like everybody in the world is going to come chase you after that gold medal. So the best people from every corner of the world will come and try to win that market. And so do you have the best team members? Like, do you have the best head of engineering? Do you have the best head of customer success that knows how to do for deployed engineers? Do you have the best, you know, in each of these areas that it takes to really build a scalable tech company? And so you start off with a simple problem with your blinders on. You start off with that customer relationship, but then you have to kind of switch your focus to actually build in a scalable organization within itself. And that often ends up being the difference between did somebody build a small startup that was cute or did someone really build a scalable company that will be long lived?

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. So you sit in a unique position obviously in the VC world when you talk about big things start small. What are the specific characteristics that you look for in founders? Right, yeah, you said some things like they got to build a big team, but like there's got to be something that you see when they're talking about their company, when they have the idea, what are some of those characteristics that successful ones have in common?

[Ian Dunlap]

They're a little bit crazy.

[Troy Millings]

Tell us more.

[Paul Judge]

Find that.

[Ian Dunlap]

Yeah. No, but seriously, the archetype of a founder, you know, typically people like to talk about product market fit. I tend to also like to think about founder market fit. Like what's your reason that you are the person to win this particular market right now? Right. So there's a timing question in that, there's an expertise question in that, but not just technical expertise. There's a question about go to market, like what advantages do you have when it's time to go get scalable customer acquisition? Right. Is it relationships with resellers, Is it relationships with CIOs, is it relationships with, with media platforms, like how are you going to scale more efficiently than the next person? And really, is this part of your life work? Startups take time. Right. So the last company I Co founded Pindrop, still privately held company we just announced a few weeks ago, just reached $100 million of annual revenue run rate. We started that company in 2011, right. So we're 13 years in and still just getting started, right. The company's 200 plus people. Vijay, my co founder, he's CEO and runs the company. And you know that company, you think about your life work. Are you really willing to work on this problem for a decade? And you could oftentimes sense that out with a founder, is this just something that they thought this good idea? They think they can build something, right? Quick exit in a year or two. We're not really interested as someone that really is devoting a chapter of their life to solving this. Because entrepreneurship, as you all know, has its ups and downs. Like one week, I'm killing it, the next week is killing me, I'm killing it, it's killing me. And someone that's going to stick through it, through all the ups and downs is key. So a little bit of that perseverance is key. Someone who has that vision of what the future looks like. Are you thinking about what the world looks like three to five years from now, right. Not just reacting to what you saw in the news this quarter, but you have an independent point of view of the world needs to look like this. And I'm going to do the things to make that become true because that person can also attract talent and they can attract capital. Right? Because part of is not just the idea, not just the software, but to build that team. You have to be the type of leader that someone wants to follow and work alongside and they want to bet their career on you. And so a little bit of that charisma, a little bit of that perseverance, that leadership, that vision, it comes across and that's what you start to see consistently across successful entrepreneurs.

[Troy Millings]

Personally, what do you think is the industry that's most ripe for disruption over the next five years that many people are not paying attention to?

[Ian Dunlap]

Look, I like the really boring, unsexy industries, really boring stuff.

[Troy Millings]

Health care, insurance, health care, legal.

[Ian Dunlap]

You know, I tend to say if you're, if you're a business owner and you at the end of the year kind of just go back and look at your, your bills and like, where did you spend money? And then what's your customer satisfaction level with that industry, right? It starts to uncover places where there's high revenue below customer satisfaction. Those are the industries that are begging to be disrupted, right? Industries like accounting, right. When's the last Time you heard someone brag about their accountant?

[Troy Millings]

Never. Very rarely. Yep.

[Ian Dunlap]

You spent a lot of dollars there. When's the last time someone said, oh man, my lawyers. So there's a lot of disruption, opportunity there. There's so many industries like that that they're, they're necessary components of living life and being in business, but they're antiquated. Right. They've thrown a lot of humans and expensive humans at the problem. And so even we think about companies that we've invested in. Someone looked up and realized mom and pop pharmacies were being overlooked. No one was paying attention to them and their software was aged and antiquated. And so there's a founder that we backed who built a company called Heal now that's building software to help mom and pop pharmacies have modern software. Right. You know, someone, there's another founder that we backed that realized everyone was chasing the big banks, trying to build software for them. But there's all these credit unions and they're, you know, relatively small, but no one was building the software to modernize them. And so, so Michael built a company called Bank Joe and he's, excuse me, he's providing the software for all these credit unions and small and regional banks. And so there's, there's often these pockets where someone's running after the large enterprise, someone's maybe running after small and medium business. But the mid market is often overlooked. And so it's not just which vertical, but it's kind of which segment within that vertical are people not tackling right now.

[Rashad Bilal]

So let me ask you this. As far as you obviously had a lot of successful companies, can you walk us through maybe one of your favorite deals that you invested in and then, you know, that company grew and then later exited.

[Ian Dunlap]

Let's see, company invested in, it grew and then exited. Let's see which one we touch on here. Start with, you know, I'll start with a company called Drift, right? Drift Marketing automation company. Right. They use AI to help companies automate their marketing platform. Right. How you, you write content, how you send emails, you know, how you attract new customers. This is a company that, that we invested in. And then fast forward, you know, they were acquired by Vista Equity. And so Robert Smith's company. Exactly, exactly. So that, that's one that comes to mind, as you mentioned that earlier. Another is a company called Emailage. And this is a company you talk about board industries that people overlook. These founders realize that if you want to catch fraudsters, they have to first those fraudsters go and make accounts, they make the account at the bank, they make the account at the cell phone company. And when they're making the account, you can maybe figure out if that count is real or not by looking at some of the information that they enter. And one of the pieces of information you have to always put in to open an account is an email address. And it's pretty free and easy to make lots of email addresses. But they realized that the fraudsters would, would make email addresses that were brand new and they would look cryptic, you know, a bunch of letters and numbers that didn't go together and nobody was paying attention to that. But if you look at it, it's like, yeah, that can't be a real person. But nobody was paying attention to that. So they simply said, we're going to analyze the email addresses on account creation and we're going to do data sharing across all of our customers. And we're going to say if someone's created a new bank account, typically that should be an email address that's been around for four years or five years. We should have seen it at other places. If that email account is pretty new and we haven't seen it other places, it's probably suspicious. A very simple thesis, right? And they went to market with that and it worked and it was able to catch fraud and catch fake accounts and they were able to grow this company and sell it for a really strong exit. So a cybersecurity company, anti fraud authentication in an industry that would have been, been overlooked. Right? It's not the coolest thing. You wouldn't talk about that at a cocktail party. But they were able to go create a nine figure company by this really astute observation and building a scalable company around it. That was a company called Emailage. That was a really strong exit. And so there are a number of those along the way. And then there's companies that, some of my favorites are companies that are still going, they've scaled and they're still privately held companies, as you know. Well, there's been a shortage of IPOs over the last several years. So there's this liquidity crunch. And so companies are having to stay private longer. They're having to really kind of have a closer eye towards, you know, profitability and actually dropping cash into the business and scaling more efficiently. But there's companies like, like QuickNote. As everyone's chasing blockchain, you get a lot of people talking about NFTs, you get a lot of people talking about tokens. What QuickNote realizes in any Gold rush. Someone has to sell the infrastructure, the picks and shovels. Someone has to provide the plumbing and infrastructure. They provide a platform that allows enterprises to build their blockchain projects. They provide the nodes and the dapps that you need to write across multiple dozens of different chains. We first met this company about four years ago and at the time, you know, they were, you know, really modest revenue. The company has grown 100x since we invested and now help a lot of large enterprises roll out their, their blockchain projects across the globe. And so as examples like that, have been able to meet a founder at that first kind of seed and series A round as there's the first initial signs of traction, 1, 2, 3 customers, maybe a hundred thousand of revenue, half a million of revenue and then helping that company grow and scale, you know, ideally grow 80 to 100% year over year. And then you let Tom do his job, right? You grow three years, five years, you grow five years in a row, 100% a year, company goes from 200,000 of revenue to 10 million of revenue. You do that another year or two, you're 50 million of revenue, then you're 100 million of revenue. And so it's really been able to try to predict and model out can this company sustain 100 plus percent run rate and growth rate and can they do it for five to seven years and before you know it, you have companies in the portfolio that are on their way to 50, 100 million dollar revenue.

[Paul Judge]

Do you feel immense pressure being at that point of it? Right. We talked about the IPO market shrinking. If we look at pandemic to now, obviously the numbers are drastically different but that pressure of we got to get this right, right? Like we got to get this right because a first time founder might not be a second one if they don't get it right. So from your standpoint, right, being in the VC space, how precise and how direct and how exact do you have to be each time when you're investing in a company?

[Ian Dunlap]

So the, the gift and curse of, of venture capital, especially early stage venture capital. So pre seed. Seed Series A. Talk about there's pre seed, there's seed, there's series A, there's growth and each of those has these different attributes. So for example, typically pre seed and seed companies, more than half of those fail, right? And they just, they don't make it to their next round of funding. That's just the industry average. We all know that as we sign up for it. Venture capital is very much a power law industry. Your top 20% of companies are going to drive 80% of your returns. Right. Which is why there's more variability in returns. If you look at VC as an asset class as compared to like private equity, you're entering early, there's still more risk, right? But there's $3 trillion of venture capital deployed across the globe, about a trillion dollars of that in the US. There's about $200 billion a year of venture capital that's invested into companies every year in the U.S. right. And many of those companies will fail. They will return less than one time of the investment. And so you ask like, well, why do people do this? Well, it's those outliers, it's those 10x30x100xs that allow, you know, top tier venture capital firms to deliver a 5X to deliver, you know, 25, 30, 35% IRR across a 10 year fund life. And that is the difference between kind of a great VC and an average VC firm. And so to your question of are you scared? We build all of these models when we do an investment. It's fun and easy to talk about it in 20 seconds. But we spend weeks or months studying this company, studying the space, studying the competitive landscape, mapping out the market size, right? How many of those customers exist, how big are they? How many are deployed to the cloud, how many use kubernetes versus this. We look at all these different financial scenarios. What happens if they don't get traction in Europe? What happens if their gross margin is 40% instead of 60%? What happens if they can't scale through resale? Like we look at all these financial scenarios and give it all probability weighted potential outcomes. And then we have to study and look at what does this company exit on the way out, how is it value? What's the publicly traded comp set, what's the private market comp set? What are precedent transactions? Does this company trade at a multiple revenue? Does this company trade at a multiple of gross margin? Or all of those things come into effect, it's like what is the expected outcome? And then we invest and then from there we're in the boat with the company. And it's our job to not just provide the capital, but to also provide connections, to provide community, to provide the network to help them succeed. Right? And so we have an entire team, for example, and most VC firms have this, a team, like a value creation team that focuses on how do we help this company after we invest, how do we help them with hiring, how do we help them, introduce them to Customers, how do we help them with go to market partnerships? And so it's not just the capital, but it's kind of being hands on to help them build a meaningful business. And so those are some of the components that come into picking the right companies and then being hands on and working with those companies over the years. Which is why, you know, I don't often celebrate the fundraisers. You see a lot of people, they raise, you know, a 5 million or $10 million Series A and they celebrate and there's a headlines and somebody's throwing a party and you know, they're in a club with a sign and it's like, no, no, no. The, the VC funding, that's just like filling up your gas tank, right? It's like if you're going on a trip and you stop at a gas station and fill up your tank, it's like, cool. Now you have the fuel to go on the journey, to go where you need to go, right? You don't celebrate putting gas in your car. All you did was put gas in your car. Now you have to get somewhere. And so we often give this analogy to founders that, you know, venture funding is like oxygen in a scuba tank.

[Rashad Bilal]

Right.

[Ian Dunlap]

If you know, oxygen in the scuba tank, it runs out, right. It doesn't last forever. It runs out. And so you have to use that oxygen wisely to get to the next milestone. You have to either get to profitability or you have to get to the next milestone that will enable your fundraise. If you don't, you run of oxygen, you die.

[Troy Millings]

Mm.

[Ian Dunlap]

And so kind of getting that clarity early on, I think, is one of the big differences between companies that are successful graduating to the next round and companies that get distracted and, you know, they raise that round, they go on a speaking tour, they raise that round, they throw, and they just. The company doesn't execute and can't get the next fundraise done.

[Troy Millings]

Let's do a thought exercise. Let's say you were a series A investor in Tesla and you've already exited, but Elon calls you on a Friday night and say, hey, man, I'm having a little bit of trouble with Trump as an advisor. What would you do to write that company? And can you illustrate some of the points to entrepreneurs watching tonight about how to avoid roadblocks that can derail a company from being successful?

[Ian Dunlap]

We felt companies solve a lot of problems, but that might be one of.

[Troy Millings]

The biggest, most complicated in the history of commerce.

[Ian Dunlap]

Right, right. Look, I find that, you know, as we're, we're as we're mentoring and working alongside entrepreneurs, they come into some really tough situations, right? You have problems where, you know, I've had companies where the software doesn't work and you're, and you're, you're, you're crashing servers at your customer, right? Your customer's losing data because your software doesn't work and you have the CIO of a Fortune 500 calling you and they're going to cancel your contract and because you can. And so there's a question of the engineers are in the back trying to figure out and debug it. And you're trying to figure out how to save the account, but how to not get kicked out. And so it's like, how much time can you get? You have situations like that. You have situations where you know a competitor has come in and just undercut you, right? You have an enterprise contract that say a million dollars a year. You have a three year term, million dollars a year. And you know, the second year of the contract, a competitor wants to win that account and they're willing to give their software away free to take you out. And so you have a million dollar contract, they offer it free for free. Like how do you compete with free? And so how do you maintain that relationship, not lose that marquee customer? You know, you have situations where in lawsuits, right, you have patent lawsuits that show up, you have trademark lawsuits that show up. And so there's all of these, these unknowns that, that come across. One of my favorite stories, there's a, a gentleman who invested. Actually, it's funny, we use Jimin Scott Weiss, he used to be a partner in Dreeson Horowitz. And when I was in my team, we were working together. We were building Cipher Trust. He was building our arch rival, a company called Ironport. And we used to compete with each other for customers. We used to see each other at trade shows and we were just really tough competitors. And then fast forward in life, the thing is that this is a long career. We all have logos change, business cards change, but people remain the same. So fast forward 10 years, he's an investor, I'm building pin drop, we're raising capital, he ends up investing in our company, right? But this guy's always had a blog that he wrote once that was about cracking the egg with a sledgehammer. And the point of that blog, he wrote the story was when you have a problem at a company, what you should do is if it's a critical problem that could be life or death, that for Your company don't wait and like, try one solution, see if that works, try another one, see if that works. You don't have time to serialize it. You basically need to take all the possible solutions sometimes and go do them at once. And so it's kind of like if you're trying to crack an egg, don't try the spoon first and then the knife, just go straight to the sledgehammer and solve that thing. And so sometimes you have problems like that there's such a life or death problem for that company that you have to like focus all of your energy on it and kind of use the sledgehammer to crack the egg. And so the one that you mentioned, Tesla and the White House, I don't, that's above my pay grade.

[Troy Millings]

But, but.

[Ian Dunlap]

Use all of the efforts to go, to go solve that. So now it'd be interesting to watch how it all plays out.

[Rashad Bilal]

So, Paul, you know, we talk about VC funding and we know that there's a problem in our community. I think less than half of 1% of VC capital goes to black businesses. But just businesses in general, right? Talking about women, talking about so many different businesses, right? It's just, it's a lot of people that struggle to get venture capital across all demographics, right? Like, it's getting harder, it's getting harder to get them to get venture capital funding. And you said, like, even this, a little bit of money can change the trajectory of a company. Look at Peter Taylor invested in, in Facebook early and you know, the rest is history, right? And there's so many stories of like somebody wrote fifty thousand dollar check and now they're worth, you know, a hundred million dollars. Because that company became, you know, one of the biggest companies in the world, right? So a lot of entrepreneurs across all, you know, walks of life, what they're, what they're suffering from is two things. They're suffering from not having enough money and they're suffering from not having mentorship, guidance, somebody that can actually, you know, be in their corner and walk them through. So with that being said, you know, last year we did something that we've never done before. We had a pitch competition at Invest Fest. And that was something that honestly we just did off the cuff, right? Like, that was our first time actually putting together a pitch competition for like on our own. And it was just, you know, kind of like every business and it, it was, it was broad range. But as things evolve, you have to bring in the hitters. This is a business lesson, right? So this year we brought the Big dog in. So Paul Judge has partnered for this year's Invest Fest pitch competition. And he's actually. It's a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, right?

[Troy Millings]

Incredible.

[Rashad Bilal]

Shark Tank style tech companies only. Only tech companies. And this is not just us just writing a check and just saying good luck. Paul's obviously had tremendous successful track record and you know, exiting companies and even if they're not exiting, staying private, as he said, you know, turning companies that's making a million dollars to a hundred million dollars, right. Over the course of time, not easy, takes a lot of work. But, you know, this is, this is something that's been proven. So we just thought that it would be better if you can't, you can't be great at everything in life. So we wanted to have somebody that is already seasoned, already great, already in the hall of fame and he already has pitch competitions that he's already done for years. Very successful. So we're bringing it to Invest Fest. Paul Judge.

[Troy Millings]

I don't even know. This is amazing. Wait, what?

[Rashad Bilal]

Paul. Paul Judge, myself, Troy and two chains.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

Will be the judges and somebody will win $125,000. Paul, you want to talk about it?

[Ian Dunlap]

And that you. That is, that is it. That is you. You nailed it. Is. You know, sometimes one plus one equals three. And so now, you know, long admired. Kind of what you all have been doing, you know, right here on Market Mondays and EYL and what you've been building. You know, my hometown of Atlanta and you know, through numerous conversations we've had over the years, you know, we've ever had a chance to collaborate on something. So this, this is exciting. You know, pitch competition. I did the, the first one that I did was in 2016. And the concept was, was simple. You mentioned this problem of access to capital, right? Blacks and Latinos, 30% of the US population only received 3% of venture capital funding. Women, 50% of the US population only received 2% of venture capital funding. But it's also a geographic problem, right? 80% of venture capital funding goes to three states. California, New York, Massachusetts. Those states are 16% of the population. So the rest of the 84% of the rest of the country, they're all fighting for the last 20% of venture capital fund. So that the capital concentration problem affects everyone. It's a geographic problem, it's a racial problem, it's a gender problem. And so, you know the saying, your talent is everywhere, but opportunity is not. You know, our goal with the pitch competitions is to be that opportunity for the next Generation of founders, right? A lot of these companies started with a friends and family realm, right? Microsoft, Dell, we've all heard the story of Amazon's friend and family round. And you know, my friends and family that I grew up with, we, it was, we're not going to raise $100,000.

[Paul Judge]

Respectfully, right.

[Ian Dunlap]

A dinner table in Baton Rouge, I love it. But there was not $100,000 friends and family round around the dinner table. So the point of the pitch competition is to be an open door where anyone in the world can apply. And we're going to take a look and actually read and understand what your business does. And you know, our investment team analyzes each company and we invite about 20 semifinalists to spend more time and then five finalists will be on stage. And look, I'll tell you the first one we did, 2016, and the winner of that one was a company, it's a gentleman named Mishear, and he built a company called Kadaxo. It was 2016, he had this idea and he won the pitch competition. We wrote $100,000 check into that company, right? A year later he raised one and a half million dollar round. Two years later, he raised a $7 million series. A couple years after that he raised a $30 million series B, right? All started from a $100,000 check. The second year we did it, the winner was a young lady named charu. She was 19 years old at the time, if I remember correctly, a sophomore at Georgia Tech. And she had built some software to help people in warehouses be more efficient. And we wrote $100,000 first capital into that company. A couple years later she raised a three and a half million dollar seed round. A couple years after that, a twelve million dollar Series A round. That software now runs in some of the largest retailers on earth. A year after that, the next one we did, the winner was Sandeep and Patrick. They were architects and they had this idea that they could write software to help architects do their job better and like automate things that were taking hundreds of hours. We wrote the first hundred thousand dollar check there. They started the company fast forward, they raised a $5 million Series A. After that, they raised a $30 million Series B. After that. Now they're used by thousands of architects around the globe. Those are just the first three winners. You know, we've done 20 plus of these over the last nine years. But this one with you all is going to be the biggest one. Super excited about it. It's going to be the biggest one at Invest Fest in August people can apply. The deadline is June 30th. And to your point, they will receive $125,000 investment prize. They'll receive access to our full capabilities of open opportunity funds, that value creation team I mentioned, and so forth. They'll be part of the portfolio alongside the other 75 companies we've invested in. So they'll be in the same portfolio that we've invested in Brex or 8 Sleep or Squire or others. And then also obviously be able to work with, with you guys and your, your amazing minds. And so now really excited about doing this together.

[Troy Millings]

Quick question for you. When you're analyzing a company for the entrepreneurs that are listening tonight, what are some things like KPIs that you'll see that jumps off of a chart that makes you say, I have to at least take a second look or I have to invest in this company.

[Ian Dunlap]

At this stage, it is a little bit of like, what's the problem that you've uncovered that other people have overlooked? Like, you have some observation, like you figured out, hey, there's this thing over here and no one else is looking at it. Or there's this huge opportunity over here, no one's else thought about it. And then you've gone from just the idea to just a little bit of traction. You've called a customer and you've built a prototype for them. You call two customers and you have an mvp, a minimum viable product running in their network. Or someone has said at least, hey, if you build this, I would buy it. Think about Pindrop. We started Pin Drop, the first thing we had even before we wrote any software. We went and started pitching customers like, hey, if we built this, would you buy it? And they nodded their head and we said, okay, well, I tell you what, if I write that down on a letter, would you sign it? And we're trying to raise money and prove to people there's demand for this. I just want a letter. And we got a letter from a top five bank that says, yep, if you build this, I would buy and I would probably pay about this much. So that's just proof of demand and customer demand. And so at this stage, that's the bar. We're not looking for necessarily someone that has millions of dollars of revenue or has scaled around. You're looking for kind of that, that very first early traction around an idea that could potentially be big.

[Troy Millings]

I don't think people realize how big this is. Like to not only get the investment capital, but to get. I mean, it's clear, Paul's one of the brightest minds in our country. So to have that forever shot, the eco fans at Invest Fest, listen, if you all don't apply, please don't email me, don't text me. No, I will not give you Paul's number. Yes. Do not miss out.

[Paul Judge]

I think that line is super important, right? Talent is everywhere, but opportunity isn't. And so you can have a concentration of talent in one place and opportunity being in that same place, it makes Invest Fest, I mean, just unique in itself. Just from the pitch competition alone, let alone everything else is going to be there. Man. We appreciate you partnering with us on this. This is going to be a moment.

[Rashad Bilal]

And let me, let me just give them the rundown to please, please do. It's open till June 30 for submissions or there's two requirements. You have to have an Invest Fest ticket, general admission, whatever, Invest Fest ticket. And you have to have a company, right? And the company, like you said, doesn't have to be a multi million dollar company. It could be in the, in the very beginning phases, right? But it's tech focused and it could be tech focused in sports and music and you know, business, whatever, but tech, tech focus because we talk about tech so much, so it just makes sense. And this is Paul's specialty. This is Shark Tank style. Paul is going to actually be investing in the company. So it's not like, okay, I'm just going to give you a check. Good luck going your way. That's your business partner, right? So it's, it's actually an investment into your company. $125,000 and that comes with, you know, the full range of everything that he's been able to do as far as, you know, help companies really scale. And again said, you know, I think sometimes, you know, you, you lack some level of understanding. Like this is very rare.

[Troy Millings]

Like I want to play basketball, but you can win and get coached by Jordan.

[Rashad Bilal]

Like we're bringing like the Y combinator to you to your door. Like he said, that's crazy. I even know that 84 of VC goes to Massachusetts, New York and California.

[Troy Millings]

It's hyper concentrated.

[Rashad Bilal]

So it's like to have it in Atlanta, Georgia, I mean that alone, you know, talking about the south you're talking about, I mean anybody can apply from anywhere in the country, but you know, obviously it's in Atlanta. So man, I don't know if you're in Morehouse College or if you're working at a job, if you're, if you like, if you have an idea In a company that is around tech, I have no idea why you would not apply for this picture.

[Paul Judge]

Beats me.

[Ian Dunlap]

Amen. I agree. And I'll tell you this, when we've done them before, every time there's a $100,000 plus check, we're doing 125,000. But no promises, guys. But you know, when we show up, we tend to bring two or three of these checks with us because there's been.

[Troy Millings]

Just in case.

[Ian Dunlap]

Yeah, there's been. There's been at least three times where there's two companies that are both so amazing that we bring out $125,000 check and then we bring out another $125,000 check. There's been one time that we had three checks, 100 plus thousand dollars each handed off on stage. And so the limitation isn't capital.

[Troy Millings]

It's the brilliance of the idea.

[Rashad Bilal]

Respectfully. Yeah, Limitation isn't capital.

[Troy Millings]

And I know I said at the top of the show, but it's really important for entrepreneurs to know, wow, Paul's a good person.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah.

[Troy Millings]

You can get capital from a bad person or a bad VC and it derails your company. Like, Paul's a great person as well. So, like, I don't know how much more what else is needed or wanted, please. Like I said, I didn't know this. I. It would behoove you to start applying tonight.

[Paul Judge]

Please circle the deadline to when the applications need to be put in, but also go back and watch this episode. Listen to the questions we asked very intentionally about what companies are looking for, what exactly we're looking for when it comes to that pitch competition. Because this is your. The blueprint was just laid out for you tonight.

[Rashad Bilal]

Invest fest.com go to invest fest.com hit the pitch competition link. It's pretty straightforward. Follow the directions. Don't wait until June 30, please.

[Troy Millings]

Please don't.

[Rashad Bilal]

Wait till June 30.

[Troy Millings]

Final question for Paul. For those of us, me included, who are inspired tonight, like, and for those who want to have your level of acumen, can you make a simple knowledge roadmap to help our. Because I think we've done a great job at investing, but we don't have the capacity to understand angel or vc. Is there a roadmap that you can recommend tonight in terms of reading or things to look at to help them get up to speed for Invest Fest?

[Ian Dunlap]

A roadmap to. To get up to speed on. On angel investing adventure?

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Ian Dunlap]

Yeah, look, I think earlier, I think I heard you mentioned Jason Caliconis and a good friend, great angel investor. He has a book about it. That's. That's one place, you know, there's websites like Angellist where private companies are going to go raise capital and you could register and get access to deal flow. And you learn a lot by just watching that, that deal flow. You know, there are tech startup focused publications, whether it be like PitchBook that puts out reports about the industry, or TechCrunch that covers startup news. I think those are some of the things. But it's a great question. You know, you all do such a good job on educating and informing. You know, we might have to put some. Our heads together and think about how to. How to help educate more people around the. The tech space.

[Troy Millings]

That would be great.

[Rashad Bilal]

Sure. Well, Paul, thank you, my brother. Appreciate it.

[Troy Millings]

Thank you.

[Rashad Bilal]

Always, always a great conversation whenever we talk to Paul. And once again, thank you. And I'll see you in Atlanta.

[Ian Dunlap]

Yeah, I'll see you then, man. Great to see you guys. Great to spend time. Happy you guys made it back from Africa as well.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, we got to talk about that.

[Ian Dunlap]

I understand. We will. All right.

[Paul Judge]

Appreciate you.

[Troy Millings]

Thank you, brother.

[Ian Dunlap]

Looking forward to it.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yes. Oh, there you have it. That was.

[Troy Millings]

That was a amazing conversation.

[Paul Judge]

That was a master class. My gosh.

[Troy Millings]

Brilliant.

[Rashad Bilal]

What more can be done?

[Troy Millings]

I didn't know that. Y' all didn't hit me in a group text about that. Great idea.

[Paul Judge]

We didn't tell you about that.

[Troy Millings]

No.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, just a lot of dinners. A lot of dinners. And we've been knowing Paul for a long time.

[Troy Millings]

We.

[Paul Judge]

We always meet over dinner, but just throwing the ideas around and this one just kind of made too much sense. It was a perfect fit.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. Capital is not the issue. That's. That's a.

[Troy Millings]

That's a bar I met. I ain't thinking that. Oh, okay. Shoddy when you get on them, precede tax money. Okay.

[Paul Judge]

Okay.

[Rashad Bilal]

But yeah, nice. It's one of these things, you know, like I said, I feel like, you know, last year was a great start to a pitch competition, but we just want to. To refine it a little bit and really get somebody an opportunity to become like the next Facebook meta.

[Paul Judge]

I think you brought up a great point about being great at something but not being great at everything. Right. And if we look at, obviously we evaluate the performance of invest first, the day after, how can we be better? These are some of the points. We're like, oh, we could be better at it. And rather saying, oh, we could probably be better at doing a pitch competition. Let's find out somebody who's been great at it already and how can we work together. I think that that piece of working together is like, all right, this is somebody that looks like us and somebody we trust. We already know this guy's established. We have a great relationship. Let's see how we can combine. And the, the real benefit is that the people get to see this in real time. But they, the people that are going to be up on stage are going to benefit tremendously. And the audience as well. The audience is going to benefit as well because there'll be plenty of people that are not on stage that are saying, hey, I love that company. How can I be a part of it? How can I invest? Absolutely everybody wants in that case.

[Troy Millings]

Same with the Magic Johnson story. Every job leads you to your next one. For those who don't even win, there are people in the audience who may have money to invest. So give your all, prepare early. I put it on Twitter this weekend like four to six months. I was going through my notes when I started preparing. Last year was five months prior to Invest Fest like you can. And even who won in last year, you can see the preparation that they had on stage. So I'm telling you this year is going to be really, really, really special.

[Rashad Bilal]

And like you said the last thing about this is like I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm not sure people really fully understand understand, you know, I mean like it's really difficult to get somebody like of Paul's acument to take place and Invest Fest period is hard to get them and then to get them to actually have a pitch competition then $125,000 and then tech focused company and then he's going to run all of the. The back end system. So it's like his company is going to look through every single application. Then they're going to contact people. It's a whole detailed thing. This should not be taken lightly. I'll just say that all you have to do is have good thermal. All you have to do is. Have you heard me?

[Paul Judge]

I just caught that.

[Rashad Bilal]

That was a good investment.

[Paul Judge]

Vintage.

[Rashad Bilal]

All you gotta do is have an Invest Fest ticket. So you talking about 250 for access.

[Troy Millings]

To one of the brightest minds in the history of America.

[Rashad Bilal]

And it's any tech like, like you said you could have an idea. Literally like he said, he's funded companies with ideas before.

[Troy Millings]

Like, all right, these kind of incubators don't happen in our space and usually when they do, they cost A hell of a lot more like just to be frank, to get a console call. If you had a company that was doing like 3 million recurring revenue, probably cost you like 15 to $20,000. If he would take the call.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's a fact. And we're gonna stop. We're gonna have a large separation between at a certain point in time the criticism. It's too much is too. It's too widespread of a gap and there's too much that's actually been curated here and done. It's. It's not, you know, I mean like this is not had been done before.

[Paul Judge]

So.

[Rashad Bilal]

Yeah. I advise all entrepreneurs.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

And every company should be a tech company. For sure. Have a tech component too.

[Paul Judge]

Absolutely.

[Rashad Bilal]

So I don't got a tech company. Well, mistake. You should figure out how your clothing brand can turn into a tech.

[Paul Judge]

If you don't, there goes your problem. Right. When he said, try to figure out what the problem is, how we can make this a scalable business if you don't have a tech component. That's the number one problem straight up. Look at every company that is publicly traded. There's a tech component.

[Troy Millings]

Absolutely.

[Rashad Bilal]

Man. That was a great conversation, man.

[Paul Judge]

Child Depot.

[Troy Millings]

That's a hell of an idea shot two chains.

[Rashad Bilal]

Too, for sure. Like you never know. Somebody in the oil, like you said, somebody in the audience, somebody on stage, some change might just say, you know what?

[Paul Judge]

Hey, I'm rocking with that.

[Rashad Bilal]

You might not have won, but I personally wanna. You know what I'm saying? Like you never know.

[Troy Millings]

And if Paul already did the assessment on the background detail. Oh, easy for me to. They shot.

[Paul Judge]

They did the homework for sure.

[Troy Millings]

8% non dilutable. That's incredible. That made my day out, I'm not gonna lie. Because these opportunities, if you've ever been to a Y Combinator or something like that, like we're not there. Like even though we've cracked the code on investing for our community, it's still not done in angel and vc. That's a whole another genre that we have not tackled yet. And it's so much money there. Private equity we haven't been able to tackle. So I think this is just the beginning.

[Rashad Bilal]

And it speaks, it speaks to maturity too. You know, there's a lot of. There was some criticism. I remember a couple years ago when Jeezy performed and somebody had got on stage and they was dancing, they like, oh, this doesn't represent investment culture. And well, a. Give us time to mature, brother. You see us, you gotta understand we doing this from the ground Level, you know, I mean, like, we didn't have any mentors in this space. So we still gonna have fun, but give us time to mature. In five years, we brought you a mini Y Combinator.

[Troy Millings]

And they have Fallout Boy at their con, at their conferences, three doors down ones. They're like them conferences. Back in the day, they had entertainment too. Don't do. This is the truth.

[Paul Judge]

They have them now. What you mean back in the day? They're doing it now. Facts shout out to. Well, you know what? I'll stop.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

Yes. Okay. They have it now.

[Troy Millings]

But it's easy to say that opposed to highlight the amazing information that has been given. Just. Just my performance alone. But it's other people there that have brought up amazing conversation and things that you can implement leaving that weekend that isn't highlighted. But like you said, I think this is gonna. Yeah, this is separate.

[Paul Judge]

I was gonna say even. Why Combinator? I mean, yes, on the premise, but this is different. Like, we know people who have gone through Y Combinator. Right. Like you said, we're not there. Atlanta.

[Troy Millings]

We're there.

[Paul Judge]

We're here.

[Troy Millings]

Yep.

[Paul Judge]

Like, heavily represented.

[Troy Millings]

So show up, show out, be ready on the culture.

[Paul Judge]

F for the culture.

[Rashad Bilal]

Everybody talking about they for the culture. How many people's funding the culture?

[Troy Millings]

Facts, the culture, fund the culture.

[Paul Judge]

Who's doing that?

[Troy Millings]

Hello. Living it for real. I don't think people knew how. How brilliant Paul was. First time we talked in land, I said, oh, bro, you. You a cyborg.

[Paul Judge]

You different, bro.

[Troy Millings]

He won.

[Rashad Bilal]

And you got to appreciate him because a lot of people like him don't speak. They don't come out. They don't make themselves public. Right. They. And so for him to even come out and speak, I think that that is because he wants to help people and he wants people to know. So you gotta appreciate people like that when you. When you get an opportunity to have conversations with them, because it's not too many of them.

[Paul Judge]

And he's doing it where he from. Think about that.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

Like, you know, oh, you never came back. He's doing it where he's from.

[Troy Millings]

From. Yep. And he's a brother that wants to also help us. He's not one of those people that's like, I want to be the only black in tech. He's never been like that.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. That even puts more context to the conversation we had with him and Robert Smith at Carnegie Hall. The fact that one of the companies he invested in was bought by Robert Smith's company. Talking about work together.

[Troy Millings]

It is more capital and Collaboration. I keep telling you, please.

[Paul Judge]

Mobsters up to not getting beef. There's no business in it. It only brings police.

[Troy Millings]

I'm telling you, we are seeing it in real time. With Elon. Yes, he's still the richest person on earth, but if Trump gets mad and jd, Vance and Peter, even Peter Till and Elon are having a little issue. Enemies are not the way to go. Enemies to reduce their equity real quick. Gotta be careful.

[Rashad Bilal]

Right? Ladies and gentlemen, that was a very insightful conversation.

[Troy Millings]

It definitely was.

[Rashad Bilal]

Special episode of Market Mondays with a Hall of fame investor.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah, Jersey and the rafters. For sure.

[Rashad Bilal]

For sure.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Rashad Bilal]

All right. Anything else we need to cover?

[Troy Millings]

Nope.

[Paul Judge]

Oh, man. Y' all be blessed, man. Y' all be blessed. Keep investing.

[Ian Dunlap]

Stay.

[Paul Judge]

Tune in to Blackout this Wednesday.

[Troy Millings]

It's a lot to talk about.

[Paul Judge]

A lot to talk about.

[Troy Millings]

I don't want to throw my man under the bus, but, man, that's some nasty lots to talk about.

[Paul Judge]

Nasty work is an understatement. Filthy work is an understatement. But a lot to discuss.

[Troy Millings]

And y' all quit saying every situation is different. Some of you should hold your ex down for eight months while they cheat. Y' all are crazy. That's bad financial advice. No, that is filthy.

[Rashad Bilal]

Filthy. No filthy word.

[Paul Judge]

That is pretty filthy.

[Rashad Bilal]

Ladies and gentlemen, tune in the blackout. Get tickets to invest fest. Invest.com. get your vendor booths and apply to the pitch competition. Yeah, that's fest website. All you have to do is have a ticket and an idea. Go to the link, fill out the information and give it all you got.

[Paul Judge]

Outside. Officially begun. Someone has officially begun.

[Troy Millings]

Absolutely.

[Paul Judge]

Shout out to New York City. Summer basketball is back. So we got we back outside, man.

[Rashad Bilal]

125, 000.

[Paul Judge]

That's a lot.

[Rashad Bilal]

That was more last year. Last year we did a hundred.

[Paul Judge]

That's a lot.

[Troy Millings]

And mentorship. Yeah, Perpetuity.

[Paul Judge]

That to be part of the portfolio.

[Rashad Bilal]

Told you. This is the most important one yet. It's the most important event yet.

[Paul Judge]

That's important.

[Rashad Bilal]

All right, ladies and gentlemen, it's been real.

[Troy Millings]

And if you're pitching, go look at the portfolio and see what companies your company will have synergy with. For when you talk to Paul, that's important in that network, I think he.

[Paul Judge]

Said something very important. I mean, everything he said was important. But one of those. Those key pieces was, are you willing to dedicate your life to this? 10 years down, are you still. Is this life work? 15 years. It's just life work. Not like, hey, I'm create this business and try to Sell it in two years. They see right through it. They see right through it. This, it's got to be life work. So make sure that the purpose is that you're on right. Was destined for you.

[Troy Millings]

This is real financial information, by the way.

[Paul Judge]

It's real.

[Rashad Bilal]

And here's the thing, here's the last thing I'll say that I probably shouldn't even say this, but even if you don't get picked, right. What I would do is I would come, Paul included, but I would make a list of 10 people that I want to potentially run into at Invest Fest and I will find a way to meet them. That's important. Dan, Kathy was in the vendor marketplace with a name tag on nobody.

[Paul Judge]

Nobody stopped him.

[Rashad Bilal]

That's the thing. Like you, over the course of the weekend you're gonna run into somebody that could potentially change your life. It could be Ian Dunlap, it could be Paul Judge. It could be two chains. It could be a variety of different people. Don't make a top. I would make a top 10 list.

[Troy Millings]

10 list. Yep.

[Rashad Bilal]

Of like I got a 30 second real quick pitch. Right. Or I got a 30 second value add proposition how I can help this person. Because I've studied them already and I, I potentially know that I could potentially add some value out of 10 people. All you need is one.

[Paul Judge]

I'm gonna add to that because that's VIP night.

[Rashad Bilal]

You never. You're gonna beat. Beat me people.

[Paul Judge]

You can have that list of 10 people but those are the faces that you're going to recognize. I think the people that you should also recognize is the people that are going to be in that room. There's going to be execs. It's going to be. Exactly. It will be execs from Google. There will be execs from it. You need to know those people because you could be sitting next to them. You could be walking past and have no clue that the opportunity is right in front of you. Right. Like we've been in spaces where I'm being introduced. Like I should know that person. Matter of fact, let me go, let me go study who the team is. Right. Who, who's the marketing team. Right. Who's the chief financial. Chief financial officer for a tiaa. Right. I need to know these things.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah.

[Paul Judge]

Because I could potentially be in their presence and they can help me in my journey. And so studying the surrounding team is vitally important. So key understand the team.

[Troy Millings]

Yep. Also too he told you increase revenue or decrease expenses if these a hundred thousand in will give you 1.5. You need to have your numbers down in terms of return not yo invest in my business. I need 200 projected 2.3 back in four and a half years. Here's the run rate that I'm on. That's some money in the building.

[Paul Judge]

Yeah. We're gonna study the team, Ian. We gotta figure out how we how can we get Ian Dunlap.

[Troy Millings]

Have to some of y' all be studying hard trying business owner.

[Paul Judge]

We study at the team. We've watched Blackout. We know who the team is.

[Troy Millings]

I like your personality. Nope. Bring the investor deck.

[Paul Judge]

Small team.

[Troy Millings]

Yeah, small team. Maybe trying to I love all y' all I see. Send a pitch deck.

[Paul Judge]

Love is love. Traveling mercies to everybody out there. We'll see y' all Wednesday. Love is love. Peace.

[Troy Millings]

Peace.

[Rashad Bilal]

When you're with Amex Business Platinum, you have the card that helps businesses dream bigger, get a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business and earn 1.5 times Membership Rewards points on select business purchases so you can stock up on what you need to take your business further and get rewarded for growing bigger. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] AmExBusiness need to build a digital twin or develop your digital thread? Stay sharp and Digital Engineering brings the latest tech information in engineering and manufacturing. [e-mail] podcasts or wherever you stream.

[Ian Dunlap]

Stay informed, stay sharp.