Podcast Summary: Marketing Against The Grain

Episode: AI Just Broke Marketing (And What You Need to Do Now)
Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: Kipp Bodnar (HubSpot CMO) & Kieran Flanagan (HubSpot SVP of Marketing)

Episode Overview

Kipp and Kieran deliver an unfiltered, real-time analysis from London on how AI has fundamentally “broken” traditional marketing—and what innovative marketers must do to adapt. Drawing on their own transformations at HubSpot and industry-wide shifts, they present hard data, tactical playbooks, and actionable trends for AI-driven marketing, B2B brand building, personalization, and content creation. The tone is candid, humorous, occasionally nerdy, and empowering, with an emphasis on embracing change and experimentation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI’s Seismic Disruption: From Volume to Value

• AI is the biggest shift in marketing in years: Traditional measurable demand from search and paid ads is harder, while AI provides better ways to monetize demand.
• "We were in the era of volume... Today I think maybe we're in the era of value where we can acquire less measurable demand, but we can have way more ways to extract more customers from that demand." – Kieran [03:34]

2. AI Content has Redefined the Internet

• 74% of new web pages are AI-generated ([03:46]), prompting a shift from brand trust to individual/creator trust.
• "The Internet is massively becoming an AI content Internet versus a human-created content Internet." – Kipp [03:46]
• Consumers now prefer content from trusted individuals/creators over brands due to AI spam and overload, accelerating a trend from B2C into B2B.
• "Creators are going to become a core part of your content strategy, but also a core part of your distribution engine through paid." – Kieran [08:09]

3. Search is Broken: Rise of ‘No Click’ and AI Search Engines

• Search results are being cannibalized: “8 or 9 out of every 10 Google searches in AI mode now result in no click.”
• "The most fundamental disruptive thing... my clicks are disappearing. What do I even do?" – Kieran [13:42]
• AI assistants like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Perplexity are overtaking Google’s 'blue links' and will soon surpass organic search volume ([15:00]).

Tactics: Answer Engine Optimization (AEO)

• HubSpot increased share of voice in AI assistants by 800% in under a year ([19:59]).
• AEO is more like brand marketing than performance: Less than 2% of HubSpot’s measurable traffic now comes from AI assistants, but this presence is critical for long-term relevance.
• Strategies:
  • Leverage tools like Xfunnel for AEO at scale
  • Generate hundreds of content variations for niche product questions
  • Focus on where LLMs (AI models) source their content and secure strategic citations ([22:45])

4. The New Data-Powered Personalization

• Proprietary data is now a core marketing differentiator.
• Google AI Max and similar tools automate targeting, ad creation, and campaign optimization better than most human teams ([24:47]).
• Marketer’s role is shifting: “Our role is to make sure they have the best data set to build the best targeting.”
• The path forward: More campaigns, more granularity, more niche segmentation ([27:04]).
• Email is revitalized through AI-based micro-personalization; click and conversion rates soar with these new tools ([29:04]).

5. AI Prospecting: Key to Scaling Sales

• Inbound AI prospecting (triggered by user actions) vastly outperforms outbound with generic data.
• HubSpot achieved 35–40% increases in monthly booked meetings from AI-powered email prospecting ([29:45]).
• Success is tied to strong data and tailored prompt engineering—not generic messages. It took HubSpot six months of testing to achieve breakthroughs ([31:45]).

Letting Go of Control

• Marketers need to accept "good enough" AI-generated emails for scale:
  • "If you want every word of an email to be perfect... you're going to really be at a disadvantage in the next era." – Kipp [34:03]
• The focus should be on optimizing prompts, not copyediting every output.

6. Multimodal is The Next Frontier (2026 Trend)

• "Your website is now part human, part robot."
• Multimodal agents (AI that can use text, speech, and visual demos) are drastically increasing engagement:
  • 5–9 minute average sessions with avatar chat agents on HubSpot’s site ([36:18]).
  • Multimodal avatars conduct demos and discovery, pass summary to human sales, turning reps into closers.
• "It's the first time we're starting to market to agents, not consumers." – Kieran [34:57]

7. Short Form Video and Creator-Driven Paid Distribution

• Short form video is now the primary way B2B buyers prefer to learn about products.
• The success playbook:
  • Invest 5% of your paid ad budget in creators to generate and distribute short-form videos.
  • "If you can master short-form video, you can master every single type of content." – Kieran [39:52]
• Modern short-form marketing mirrors the infomercial—but in 30-second bursts.

8. Actionable Takeaways for 2026 Marketing

• Build and scale an Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) playbook.
• Invest in data infrastructure—differentiate with proprietary data and context.
• Shift your content strategy from brand-led to creator/individual-driven.
• Embrace prompt engineering for personalization at scale.
• Test and invest in multimodal AI agents for qualifying leads and demos.
• Integrate short-form video and collaborate with niche creators.
• Let go of perfectionism—move fast, iterate, and let AI optimize outputs.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "[AI] has completely killed the marketing that we all knew. The old rules are dead." – Kieran [10:42]
• "You can't shape consumer habits. They will be shaped by the platforms and the tools they use." – Kieran [17:39]
• "Brand marketing is coming back into the circle." – Kipp [20:21]
• "Prompt is your product." – Kieran [31:45]
• "If you want every word of an email to be perfect...that's the fact of the future..." – Kipp [34:03]
• "It's the first time we're starting to market to agents, not consumers." – Kieran [34:57]
• "Short-form video is an incredible tactic to not just acquire attention, but market your products and services. The new virality today for AI startups is the product demo." – Kieran [39:52]
• "Taste means, have I seen tens and hundreds of thousands of this thing, can I then arbitrate what good looks like and what bad looks like, and then can I work with AI to build the good version over and over again?" – Kipp [43:39]

Important Timestamps

• 03:46 – 74% of new internet content is now AI generated
• 13:38–15:52 – 80% "no click" searches; Google’s AI mode kills traffic; ChatGPT forecast to overtake organic search
• 19:59 – HubSpot boosts AEO share of voice by 800%
• 29:45 – 35%+ increase in booked meetings from AI-powered prospecting
• 34:57 – Multimodal agent and chatbot engagement breakthroughs
• 39:52 – Case for B2B short form video and creator-led paid strategies

Tone & Closing Vibe

The show is equal parts pragmatic, visionary, and wryly optimistic. Both hosts emphasize that while change is daunting, those who experiment—and let go of old playbooks—will thrive in the new AI marketing era.

"I'm an optimist, and I've never had as much fun doing marketing as I have had in the last year...I can't imagine doing anything other than marketing right now." – Kipp [45:33]

Final Action Steps

1. Prioritize AEO: Get your content into LLMs, optimize for answer engines, and track share-of-voice in AI responses.
2. Double Down on Data: Unique, integrated data is key to targeting, personalization, and protecting your moat.
3. Go All-In on Creators and Short-Form Video: Partner with niche creators and experiment fast—B2B is catching up to B2C.
4. Invest in Multimodal and AI Agents: Start testing website chat avatars for qualification and demos; let AI qualify, let humans close.
5. Let AI Personalize, and Let Go of Perfection: Empower AI-driven messaging—perfectionism kills velocity.

This episode is a must-listen (or must-read) for any marketer feeling the ground shift beneath them, and offers both reassurance and a blueprint for what to do next.