← Marketing Against The Grain
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- [00:01]
Kieran Flanagan
On today's show, we're going to teach you how to 10x your writing with ChatGPT and Claude's brand new features. We're also going to share a revelation we had live on the show that transforms the quality of your AI writing. And as a bonus, we gave away a business idea where you can make 10, 20, 30 grand a month using AI for writing. There's so much in today's show. We are pumped. Let's get to today's episode.
- [00:27]
Kip
Hey, guys, real quick. You know we love building custom GPTs on the show and we love sharing it with all of you. Well, we wanted to kick that up a notch. We just developed this free guide that teaches you how to build your own.
- [00:36]
Kieran Flanagan
Custom GPT on ChatGPT.
- [00:39]
Kip
We've taken the guesswork out of it. We've got templates, we've got a step by step guide to design and implement custom models. So you can focus on the part that's actually fun, the part we love actually building it. And if you want it, you can grab a link in the description below and go check it out now. Now back to today's show.
- [01:11]
Kieran Flanagan
Okay, before we get to today's show, which is all about writing and writing with AI, I want to show this to everybody. This is a new AI app.
- [01:21]
Claude
Yeah, this is dope.
- [01:21]
Kieran Flanagan
Where you can take one image and render this prompt and they render into a whole 3D world. And so it's pretty wild that they can take these images and turn them into these 3D worlds, which, what does that mean? You're going to be able to have real time generated personal video games. It's going to be pretty incredible. The fact that this is happening is wild to me. This is a company called World Labs and they are now building a whole AI system just to generate 3D worlds. Isn't that amazing? I'm sorry, I just wanted to share it for me because I thought it was amazing.
- [01:57]
Claude
This is the future of personalized media. Video games will be incredible because I suspect you can actually create your own worlds and video games to play with them. Like, this is the thing AI is going to be incredible for. It's not just going to be video games. Like we've talked about this on the show before, where AI is going to have the capability to build one on one media of any kind. We've already seen with podcasts.
- [02:17]
Kieran Flanagan
Video games, I think are going to be one of the early examples of it, don't you? Don't you think?
- [02:21]
Claude
I agree.
- [02:21]
Kieran Flanagan
I think people are either going to go like, hyper realize where it's like, hey, here's my house, and I want a video game to take place in my house, or people are going to get really crazy. But I will tell you, I wonder if you would agree with this bet. I would bet $100,000 that the next Pokemon, Lord of the Rings, Dune, epic ip is going to come from an AI generated video game. Somebody is going to create an epic world and epic characters with AI and that will be like the next Star Wars, Pokemon, whatever major kind of character, generational world and fantasy is going to come from this. Do you agree with that?
- [02:59]
Claude
Agreed. Yeah, I agree. I think there's opposite ends of the spectrum because maybe certain video games don't get as big as they used to because everyone has a special version of the one that they want to play. So everyone's not playing the same sort.
- [03:11]
Kieran Flanagan
Of game or they're playing kind of forked, personalized versions of those games, right?
- [03:17]
Claude
Yeah, forked versions. That's exactly what I think it's going to be, right? That you have a base media asset and you can fork it in multitude of different directions. Like, which version of this do you want to play? Which version of this do you want to listen to?
- [03:27]
Kieran Flanagan
I agree. Look, we're about to talk writing, and the reason I say that the next epic worlds for things like this are going to come from, like, AI video is because it starts with writing. This is not to say that writing isn't important, but, you know, decades and decades ago, JRR Tolkien had to write hundreds of thousands of words to create a world. Right. Somebody now might write thousands of words to create the same level of intricacy in a world and have really strong, like, visuals and aesthetics and like, the wraparound experience of it in a way that you cannot get solely just from books. Right, right. And that's why I think we want to talk about writing today is because writing with AI, I think, is going to be one of the most transformational use cases and one of the things that's going to advance society the most. And so we've gotten some new creative and AI writing features from both Claude and OpenAI. We want to talk about them on the show today. Okay. Kieran, you love writing with AI. You had a really cool app that you launched for a little bit that let people create writing styles and generate really cool LinkedIn posts. And it was so cool that Claude copied you.
- [04:42]
Claude
I know.
- [04:42]
Kieran Flanagan
And that's what we're going to talk about today is that one of the things you did was create kind of a manual way of creating writing styles. And Claude has launched that as a feature. You want to break it down for us.
- [04:52]
Claude
So people might remember I used to have this way of creating these different types of writing styles. And so the app would basically allow you to upload content and then take that content and create a writing style, and then you could replicate that writing style for any post. And it works very, very well. Again, to make sure people understand how to use these things, you do not copy and paste everything. You use this as a way to accelerate your learning. How do I actually edit this thing and make it my own? But it works really well. And so one of the cool things that Claude added was the ability to create and edit styles in two different ways. And so you can see I already have some styles here. An innovation storyteller, the market and satirist and innovation architect. I can go through some of those.
- [05:34]
Kieran Flanagan
Ooh, I like this.
- [05:35]
Claude
But what it basically does is if you want to create a custom style, you now have two ways to create this style. You can basically add a write in example or you can describe this style and I'll go into describe the style, but for the write in example. This is on my list of things to read today. It's from a company called Rocks, and I'm talking to the founder, Paki McCormack, does really great company breakdowns.
- [05:54]
Kieran Flanagan
Yeah. If you haven't subscribed to Paki, it's not boring. You should. It's a really great newsletter.
- [05:58]
Claude
It's awesome. And so the thing I was interested in is can you teach the AI, give it any kind of company you want and basically do a Packy McCormick breakdown, right?
- [06:06]
Kieran Flanagan
Yep.
- [06:06]
Claude
You obviously would take more than one post, you would scrape the content. That's how I normally do it. But we're just going to do it very manually here. We're going to take his content, we're going to add the write in example, we're going to just paste it in and then we're going to have it create the style. So it takes a little bit of time. Now, I will say, if you look at my one, I think my one is a lot more comprehensive than what you'll see Claude do. But I can show you how you can actually get to a version that's more similar to this versus this is like the easy way to do it.
- [06:37]
Kieran Flanagan
So first I'd like to say you, you like this takes some time. It took about 30 seconds.
- [06:42]
Claude
Yeah, 30 seconds.
- [06:43]
Kieran Flanagan
Copy somebody's writing style. What kind of demented world are we Living in. We're like, oh, this takes a lot of time. Before you could have said, hey, it'll take three days. We would have been like, really? That sounds amazing, right? Like, we're just so jaded.
- [06:57]
Claude
This is, again, we. One of the things you and I talked about when we talked about this at IMBA and just AI in general was how much of an accelerated learning tool it is because you can extract and play around with styles until you find your own. Now, again, I do come back to like, this is the style craft, deeply analytical narratives that strategically unpack complex technological and business transformations. So I don't know if it's that comprehensive. And I want to go through the manual way because you can make it more comprehensive.
- [07:23]
Kieran Flanagan
Talk to me about that.
- [07:24]
Claude
Well, look at my one, right? I had key principles. I had much more detail. So what I'm showing for our RSS listeners is the writing style that I used has key principles at the top. Then it will go into detailed guidelines. So it'll say, keep it concise and actually talks about the exact writing format. Right. Use short, punchy sentences. Aim for one idea per line. Break long paragraphs into single sentences. Hook and close powerfully. Start with a bold statement or intriguing question. End with a clear call to action or a thought provoking question. Here it's somewhat basic. Right. This is really just a prompt, but it's still good enough for most people to start to use. And so we would basically come down here. Now we have this insight Weaver, which is actually a cool name.
- [08:07]
Kieran Flanagan
I think it's actually pretty good at naming things.
- [08:08]
Claude
And we say, please do. What company do we like to do? Please do a. I tell you what, let's do, let's keep it topical to our opener. Let's do micro strategy.
- [08:18]
Kieran Flanagan
Little conversation about how crypto's back, baby.
- [08:21]
Claude
Deep dive strategy. Breakdown of micro strategy. So microstrategy is Michael Saylor's company, The one who keeps buying all the bitcoin.
- [08:28]
Kieran Flanagan
Yes.
- [08:28]
Claude
Which if you talk to Jason Kalikanakis, it's a pyramid scheme.
- [08:32]
Kieran Flanagan
It's hilarious that there's a whole fight between Jason Kalikanakis, Michael Saylor.
- [08:37]
Claude
I'm pretty sure Jason strategy is to pick the person who has notoriety in that moment in time and pick a.
- [08:43]
Kieran Flanagan
Fight with them and alienate them.
- [08:44]
Claude
And that's the way that you get notoriety yourself. So we'll take that and do a complete deep dive.
- [08:49]
Kieran Flanagan
It's a pretty good deep dive. I mean, you would rewrite it and reprompt it some, but it's not A bad first draft.
- [08:55]
Claude
It's not as long. But what makes MicroStrategy perfectly fascinating is how they've managed to maintain this dual identity. Enterprise software business, which no one really knows about, continues to innovate in AI machine learning, and then Bitcoin. Treasury strategy. Use debt financing to acquire Bitcoin. Maintain a long holding position. Provide institutional investors with Bitcoin exposure through public markets. That is like the weirdest company strategy.
- [09:20]
Kieran Flanagan
Strategy of all time, ever.
- [09:23]
Claude
It's got the risk reward paradigm, financial strategy breakdown. So it's got some stuff in here that if I read through, be pretty good. All right, so now you have this style that can kind of do a little bit of what Paki does for any company you want to add. You can also do this manually so you can create custom styles and you can describe this style instead, which I actually think is a better way to do it.
- [09:43]
Kieran Flanagan
Yeah, you think this is how you get a better result from your use?
- [09:46]
Claude
Yeah, I think this is how you get a better result. So you can describe the main purpose and goal of this writing style, whether to teach, analyze, persuade, and inspire. So let's say this writing is to provide a counterintuitive take on a popular subject. Given people clear lessons on how they can separate themselves from the crowd. Tailored to audience. Let's do actually a pre seed and seeds stage entrepreneurs. I want to teach counterintuitive lessons that give people new ideas to solve old problems. So, yeah, deliver entrepreneurial wisdom through conversational insight and motivational storytelling. But it hasn't like, it hasn't actually kept the first thing. It's got rid of the first thing where I said do the counterintuitive lessons.
- [10:43]
Kieran Flanagan
The UI is interesting. Yeah, it's like they're trying to make it both easy and, like, in depth.
- [10:48]
Claude
Okay, so it does have the counterintuitive stuff in here. So it is all in here. Write a style that challenges conventional wisdom and presents unexpected solutions. Okay. Engage in language. This looks pretty good. All right, let's use this. Right? So let's take a popular topic. Let's write a post for entrepreneurs on why SEO is dead. And they should grow through influential media. See what comes out with anything cool. It should basically do something counterintuitive and it should do something for seed and pre seed stage companies. All right, so let's see. Picture yourself as an archeologist in the year 2040, excavating the ruins of early digital marketing. Among the artifacts, you find countless SEO guides. Wow. The uncomfortable truth about AI. Remember when you last searched for something Not a quick fact check but real guidance on decision that mattered. Did you trust the first website that Google suggested? Blah blah, blah.
- [11:45]
Kieran Flanagan
Why traditional SEOs are like building on quicksand is nice little spicy digs.
- [11:49]
Claude
Spicy. You're not competing against other you're racing against AI that's getting smarter by the day. True traditional SEO suffers from three credits for diminishing returns. The cost of competing for value keywords is skyrocket. True trust deficit users have developed sophisticated BS detectors algorithm volatility. One Google update can erase years of work.
- [12:07]
Kieran Flanagan
This is very good actually.
- [12:09]
Claude
The rise of influential mobility in bedrock is out of sand. Yeah, you could definitely play around and do something good. The only thing I will say it has not tailored it for the audience. It hasn't tailored it for pre seed and seed stage companies or entrepreneurs. This should have been for entrepreneurs seed and pre seed stage. So anyway, how would I use this? Well, the way I would use this is think about the styles that you want to use for each platform that you are. Here we go. It's student and I. You've raised your pre seed. You have 12 to eight months from Runway and everyone's telling you to invest in SEO early. Here's why they're wrong and what you should do instead. Okay, this is far better. The hidden cost of SEO. One thing I would say here is like because it's for entrepreneurs now it has picked up in the audience. Look how much more direct and to the point it is.
- [12:51]
Kieran Flanagan
The specific you are with your prompting and your strategy for the AI, it gives you radically different content.
- [12:59]
Claude
Yeah. So this is actually a far better audience. And look how it's actually scaled. The actual tactics suggestion are things that a early stage company could do. The other article was not tailored because they were like build a community and all these things that only large companies would do. Here it's got doing podcast going on LinkedIn and Twitter, creating collaborative content with startups in adjacent spaces. Pretty good. Look for gaps between what everyone in your industry is saying and what actually is true. Very good. The content cascade method. What's this? Instead of writing SEO focused blog posts that sit on your website waiting to be discovered, start with a provocative LinkedIn post. Turn Engagement into Twitter threads. Expand winning threads into newsletter content. Transform best newsletters into podcast pitches. Convert podcast appearances into case studies.
- [13:42]
Kieran Flanagan
That's good.
- [13:42]
Claude
Maybe I should actually ask it how to do marketing. It's pretty good.
- [13:47]
Kieran Flanagan
It's like I'm done here.
- [13:49]
Claude
Yeah, this is very good. All right, so wow. It's given a whole 30 day media influence, Sprint for Founders. I mean, this is great.
- [13:57]
Kieran Flanagan
This is really good.
- [13:58]
Claude
This is really good.
- [13:59]
Kieran Flanagan
We might have to publish this as like a companion piece of content to this episode.
- [14:03]
Claude
Yeah. Okay, so what did we learn here? It really does matter who you say your audience is.
- [14:08]
Kieran Flanagan
Huge. Huge.
- [14:09]
Claude
Look how much it changed when I said give it a reminder of who the audience is. So when you're playing around with your style, I would think about the content platform. Is this a top of the funnel, middle funnel, bottom of the funnel, and who the audience is. The exact segment. And I would actually give it the buyer Persona. If you have a content Persona. Buyer Persona. I'd actually give it the slide of who that person is. That's what I'm going to do next is actually because we have that right. Like at HubSpot, we actually have a whole write out of who our audience is. And so what I'll do is create a style for that person. It's going to create content exactly matched for that person. So I think that's the real strength here.
- [14:45]
Kieran Flanagan
I couldn't agree more. Like you essentially have the ability to create a style. And what we're really saying is if you take some time and craft your style, but then also match that style with the right topic and audience, that's when you're really going to unlock really good writing.
- [15:01]
Claude
Right.
- [15:01]
Kieran Flanagan
If you just do one of any of those, it's going to be kind of meh. But when you stack those together, that's where you're giving the AI enough context and detail that it can really craft something good.
- [15:16]
Kip
I want to tell you about a podcast I love. It's called Created. It's hosted by John Ushayak. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Creative gives an inside look at how to build businesses as a creator, improve your creative process and stay ahead of the latest content trends. John, an ex YouTuber and Instagram employee, breaks down the creator economy with guests Logan Paul, Paris Hilton, Jason Derulo, Jake Paul, George Lopez and more. In a not so recent episode I loved was with Liza Koshe.
- [15:46]
Kieran Flanagan
Remember her?
- [15:47]
Kip
She was one of the fastest growing YouTubers and Viners, growing a fan base well beyond 25 million subscribers. But then she stopped uploading. So what happened? That's a smart woman who made a drastic career decision. You'd want to tune into that one. If you're looking for insights on entrepreneurship and creating a powerhouse business, then this is the episode you won't want to miss. Listen to created Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Kip. If you listen to this podcast, you.
- [16:15]
Kieran Flanagan
Know how much I love keeping up.
- [16:16]
Kip
With the latest and greatest in technology. But very few podcasts actually give you a dose of the future. The A16Z podcast is the exception. It's hosted by our friend and frequent guest, Steph Smith. The chart topping show brings on movers with a track record of being both early and right. Like Apple co founder Steve Wozniak. Or the CISOs of OpenAI, Anthropic and DeepMind. Even the very first CTO of the CIA. From the science and the supply of GLP1s to drone delivery to the economics of deepfakes, Go ahead and eavesdrop on the future. Check out the a16z podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:03]
Claude
So chatgpt4o added new creative writing skills and so they added it. Recently someone from OpenAI tweeted about how good now it is for creative writing. So let's give it the same task. Right? We can say I want you to create a write in style guide for this content that allows me to easily replicate it for any post where I want to do a company deep dive in this way. And so then we will give it the post from Paki. Sorry Paki for creating a whole podcast about how people can rip you off.
- [17:45]
Kieran Flanagan
But hey, rip you off, no big deal.
- [17:47]
Claude
There you go. It's the price of being successful. Okay, so let's see here. So I actually did play around with this when it did come out and it did create a better, more detailed style guide than Claude. I did notice that. So you can see it's gone into real details here. If you're not looking at our screen, you really should jump onto YouTube. But it's got like a real breakdown of tone and voice.
- [18:09]
Kieran Flanagan
Yep, Way different. Way more detail.
- [18:11]
Claude
Yeah, I love the way it's picked out the examples. Curious and open minded, self aware, humorous but respectful. That's a very good one. Light sarcasm. Like it's really picked up on the nuances here. Structure. This is actually one of the ones that I really wanted because the thing I really want to start to do is when you take a post, basically create exact structure across the post. So the opening paragraph is like how you get curiosity into the open paragraph. Then the second paragraph is how you interweave some excitement. Then the third paragraph is how you drop a knowledge bomb. Like I wanted the exact breakdown and it started to do that here. So it's given you a structure. Right. Set expectations at the start Establish a personal connection. Jesus is actually better than mine. Context and background. This is really good. Key themes, deep analysis. Look at the exact. Okay, this is really good. This is really, really good. I'm excited because I'm going to start doing this. All right, so let's do this. Awesome. I have to talk to it like an American, so I have to say awesome.
- [19:10]
Kieran Flanagan
Are you going to take this and use it in Claude?
- [19:12]
Claude
I'm going to take this and then I'm going to use chatbots to create a deep dive. Not MicroStrategy. We'll pick a different company and see how it compare to what Claude's breakdown was. All right, Pakistan. And then I'll put this on LinkedIn tomorrow. To really get a ton of people copying him. I was like, all right, this is how you do this. Like, the amount of people that DM me looking for my style guides is insane. It's the number one thing that people ask me for. Paki style guide. Here we go. All right.
- [19:41]
Kieran Flanagan
So while you're doing this, what strikes me, Kieran, is that when it comes to writing Claude user experience and like, the fact that it has some graphical user interface when ChatGPT is much more manual for much more for, like an advanced user, it's like very different audiences. These two writing use cases are kind of tailored to right now.
- [20:00]
Claude
Yeah, I think Claude was definitely better for writing. I have not used ChatGPT's latest updates for creative writing. I'm very interested to start using it now when I see how well it's created a style guide. So I'm basically going to ask it to do the packing McCormick breakdown of HubSpot. When you look at the style guide I started with, the one I was showing you, is example of what my app was creating. I had already picked a template. I had already taught the AI what the writing style should look like. So I said it had to have, like, these key guidelines. I said it had to break it out. This way, that way, this way. I didn't tell ChatGPT anything. I just said, create a writing style guide and it created one in a very similar way that I had to teach Claude to create. So I think that is pretty interesting. Now, the one thing I've noticed is both of them don't do it. It's not really a deep dive.
- [20:44]
Kieran Flanagan
No, you want a lot more context than this. This is still pretty surface level.
- [20:49]
Claude
Yeah.
- [20:50]
Kieran Flanagan
It's not as good as the Claude one.
- [20:51]
Claude
No, there's nothing interesting here at all. All right. I could play around with it. I Do wonder why it's so bad, given that the Deep Dive writing guide is so comprehensive and so I would have to play around with that. And I have played around with it a little last week. I can't see a huge improvement in writing, but I probably need to use it a lot more. But I will say pretty great for creating a writing style guide that you could then go using Claude. And also I suspect if I play around with it for an hour, I could get it to be really great. But I'm blown away by how good Claude is when you actually add in the audience. Maybe if I say here, can you rewrite this for founders of companies who want to IPO and have HubSpot success in particular, they are super jealous that HubSpot had Kieran Flanagan working for them.
- [21:47]
Kieran Flanagan
This is fantastic. Keep going, keep going.
- [21:51]
Claude
All right, so. Oh, look at this guy. Hotspot isn't just a software company, it's a movement. And then there's this bad guy, Kieran Flanagan. They're a marketing genius who made growth hacking look easy for founders. Question, how do we ipo, how do we do what Hotspot did? How do we build something so sticky, scalable and level like an attract top talent like you're. Oh, I love this. Actually, I might make all of my writing style guides inclusive of YouTube the style guide. And then at the end is this thingal thing to praise Kieran Flanagan, even if he was not part of the company. But actually, I will say this. Look how much better.
- [22:27]
Kieran Flanagan
It's better now, right?
- [22:28]
Claude
The audience thing really matters.
- [22:30]
Kieran Flanagan
It matters a ton.
- [22:31]
Claude
And if you give them what the audience want to get from the article, it really matters. So, like, without the funny part of me being added, and yes, part of the jealousy stems from Kieran Flanagan. He is the market leader. Wishes they had the guy who could grow the company and make it look out. But here's the thing. You don't need Kieran. What? You don't need Kieran Flanagan. Oh, this is actually awful. No, but so again, what did we learn here? Audience matters. What they want to get from the article matters. I think if you start to add the writing style guide and what I will probably do now is actually pair writing style guide with a pretty comprehensive description of audience. And I think if you listen to this show and you only take that away of how to use these tools to improve your writing, you're probably going to see more than a 10x improvement.
- [23:15]
Kieran Flanagan
Well, Kieran, I wonder if a follow up to this, should we also do some audience guides Just like writing style guides to, like, very, very detailed audience Persona, demographic firmographic breakdowns and see what that does to quality.
- [23:31]
Claude
Well, so what I'm going to do, we're going to do a little working session here because I'm actually going to do this. I'm actually going to go and ask the team to pull this for our upmarket segment.
- [23:40]
Kieran Flanagan
Yeah. We have a ton of data based.
- [23:42]
Claude
Upon customer calls and customer emails.
- [23:44]
Kieran Flanagan
Hold on. Do that. Plus all the brand survey data.
- [23:47]
Claude
Yeah, the brand survey data. And then the product marketing, they have the Persona.
- [23:50]
Kieran Flanagan
Yes.
- [23:51]
Claude
So if I pair the Persona with the brand data and then the comms, we can come back and show what the audience look would look like. And I suspect it's going to be pretty dope.
- [24:00]
Kieran Flanagan
And we should do, like one prompt with varying levels of audience detail.
- [24:04]
Claude
Yeah.
- [24:04]
Kieran Flanagan
And see how it evolves it.
- [24:05]
Claude
Yeah. I'm actually excited. This reminds me when I first figured out writing style guys were an unlock. I actually think the audience thing really is a huge unlock.
- [24:13]
Kieran Flanagan
I think audience guides are the next frontier on the writing side. Kieran, I have to show you this because I did this when we were talking, I was like, oh, we're talking about ChatGPT's new creative writing skills. And I was like, maybe just help me write a screenplay. And I was like, can you write a screenplay about two podcasters who talk about AI and marketing? And there are two friends, one of whom lives in Boston, the other lives in Dublin. They laugh at each other's jokes. And people hate it because we always get comments on YouTube. People hate it when we laugh at everything. And it wrote podception. A comedy drama, a dramedy. Sorry. And it's great. First of all, my character is named Jesse and your character's name? Liam.
- [24:52]
Claude
One of my brothers is Liam might speak listening to me.
- [24:54]
Kieran Flanagan
I know, I know. And it wrote a pretty awful screenplay, which I think is not really good at all.
- [25:03]
Claude
I love this.
- [25:04]
Kieran Flanagan
Welcome back, fellow nerds and marketing misfits. Today we're diving into the sexy, misunderstood world of AI generated memes.
- [25:12]
Claude
Sounds exactly like one of our cold opens. This is exactly the way we go. A snippet of their cringe laughter goes viral on TikTok. By the caption, are they the worst podcast ever? Actually, I did see someone at TikTok did say that.
- [25:24]
Kieran Flanagan
What?
- [25:26]
Claude
Someone on TikTok, under one of our posts where we were laughing did say, are these the two worst podcast jerks of all time or something?
- [25:32]
Kieran Flanagan
Yes. You know, you're not relevant till the TikTokers troll you.
- [25:35]
Claude
The TikTok crew. Troll you. I have a sci fi book. I actually wanted to try it with one of these as well. I have a fun concept for a sci fi movie.
- [25:43]
Kieran Flanagan
But in all seriousness, don't you think you should start working on your sci fi book now so that then you can use that as the feed into the 3D world generating.
- [25:53]
Claude
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:54]
Kieran Flanagan
Like if you do all the foundation and you have the world building and like all the stuff we just showed for like business writing would be amazing for fiction. Imagine writing very specific fiction for like a very, very specific target audience and you do it really quickly and then you buy super cheap clicks on Amazon and other places. Like you could make the math of that work 100%.
- [26:17]
Claude
Well, you could just go train on some of these forums. Fan forums. Right. Like if you know the kind of segment you're going after, I suspect I could just go scrape a forum.
- [26:28]
Kieran Flanagan
Yeah. In all seriousness, I wonder if we just found the most profitable genre, whereas like the most people with the least amount of competition so that we could buy Amazon ads at the cheapest price. And all we literally did was churn out pseudonym fiction in that genre. That was good. We had somebody do like a professional round of editing. I wonder how profitable that would be.
- [26:50]
Claude
I think it would be pretty profitable.
- [26:51]
Kieran Flanagan
I bet you could make 10, 20 grand a month just doing it.
- [26:54]
Claude
I think you could. I think there is a business to be made from scraping these kind of niche forums and then having AI create content that is very personalized to them using the kind of again, writing style guide, audience style guide. I'm pretty sure there's a way that you can figure out how to build topics, like what topics will work really well. I want to go and do some of this.
- [27:12]
Kieran Flanagan
Hold on. Imagine if we did that and we just all did digital files. But as part of the digital files you could go and there was like a web app that let you do some basic prompting to personalize the book to you. And then we captured the email and then just did complete remarketing to that group so we could stop paying Amazon.
- [27:29]
Claude
Oh, because they personalized that you could.
- [27:31]
Kieran Flanagan
Build a really sick little funnel of.
- [27:33]
Claude
Readers because you're capturing the additional data they give you and the personalization. Exactly, yeah. So way back in the day, you remember this, like one of the most successful things we did was just when people signed up, we asked them what their biggest marketing challenge was.
- [27:49]
Kieran Flanagan
Yes.
- [27:49]
Claude
And just that freeform text alone allowed us to, on the back end, personalize things at scale.
- [27:55]
Kieran Flanagan
I think it's time to bring it back here. And by the way, so this is.
- [27:58]
Claude
My other thing to you. Yeah. I have tons of things that I wanted to talk to.
- [28:03]
Kieran Flanagan
This is what happens over holidays. We don't talk for a little while because we're trying to spend time with our families and all that kind of stuff.
- [28:09]
Claude
And then we just get into the AI. The thing I wanted to say we should do is so the sales team have an initial discovery call. We can basically just ask that question in discovery call and then AI pull it out and then actually do all.
- [28:22]
Kieran Flanagan
The nurturing and follow up on that.
- [28:24]
Claude
Yeah. And we're actually using AI to capture a bunch of additional details about companies. And so you can actually start to group these things together in very interesting ways.
- [28:31]
Kieran Flanagan
Well, and then you can also use it for like closed loss nurturing. If you don't close a deal, when do you go back and reengage that deal?
- [28:38]
Claude
Right, reengage. And what was the biggest problem with that original question was because it was in freeform text and didn't have AI, it was harder to group things together. Now AI can just group all of that together. So you can actually. The other thing is you don't need to use Dropdown. No, it's just free text selection anywhere. You can just use freeform. Yeah. Because AI can actually group all that stuff together. Just.
- [28:57]
Kieran Flanagan
Life's awesome, man.
- [28:58]
Kip
I'm sorry.
- [28:59]
Claude
So many cool things.
- [29:00]
Kieran Flanagan
If you're not appreciating going into 2025, the world we're living in, I got nothing for you. We just did a whole show of breaking down, not just how Claude can help you create a writing style in minutes and mimic any writing style you're interested in. But we also really showed how different audience focus can be to that end writing product. And we're going to come back to you with a whole, like audience style guide with some testing things that we've learned. AI is clearly having a major impact in writing.
- [29:28]
Claude
Huge.
- [29:29]
Kieran Flanagan
Like, that's starting to really come through. People are not using it enough. And right now, like that book example we just closed the show with, there are just tons of businesses around writing that with some basic AI prompting and automation could be very profitable small businesses.
- [29:44]
Claude
Look, there's an episode going live today with Russ Simmons.
- [29:46]
Kieran Flanagan
Sick episode.
- [29:47]
Claude
One of our best we've done. But there's one important thing that we touched upon in there, which is the thing people get wrong is AI is a boom for people with real domain expertise. And so it's not for people who are not good at writing. No, it's not going to be useful for those to get much better at writing really quickly. It's for people who are good at writing to do 10x more. And that's the thing. I still think people are undervaluing.
- [30:09]
Kieran Flanagan
I literally think we could pick a night of the week and have a different business that we run just that night of that week. Right. And it's like in that two to three hours you could run a fictional book business. One week.
- [30:18]
Claude
Yeah.
- [30:19]
Kieran Flanagan
Some lightweight gated web apps. One day. Like if you were really enterprising, you could make 20 to 50 grand a month with just some basic work.
- [30:27]
Claude
Yeah. Productivity gains are going to be huge.
- [30:29]
Kieran Flanagan
Could not agree more. Okay. We had a blast. It clearly was fun catching up after the holidays. We're recording this right after Thanksgiving holidays in the States. Hope that everyone is getting through the end of the year grind closing out the year well. And we'll see you really soon on the next episode of marketing. It's.