Marketing Against The Grain

Episode: The Startup Letting 99% of People Build Apps Without Code
Date: September 2, 2025
Host: HubSpot Media (Kipp Bodnar & Kieran Flanagan)
Guest: Anton Osika, Founder of Lovable

Overview

This episode dives deep into the meteoric rise of Lovable, the app that's democratizing software creation by letting anyone—regardless of coding skill—build real, production-ready apps. Hosts Kipp Bodnar and Kieran Flanagan interview Anton Osika, the founder of Lovable, who breaks down their unique growth story, the implications of no-code AI for business and society, and practical strategies for marketers. The conversation explores how Lovable is changing the technological playing field, company-building principles in the AI era, new paradigms in marketing, and the future skills required to thrive.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Birth and Growth of Lovable

• Background and Genesis ([02:10], Anton Osika)

  • Anton was CTO at a YC startup focusing on e-commerce before shifting focus to AI and software generation post-GPT emergence.
  • Created "GPT Engineer," allowing users to build apps via plain English, which went viral on GitHub.
  • Realized that <1% of the world codes, but the vast majority benefits from the ability to build software (“the 99% solution”).
  • Lovable’s mission: "Unlock the creativity and best ideas among the 99% of people who don't write software code."

• Growth Milestones ([04:09], Anton)

  • Launched Lovable in November; within eight months:
    • Surpassed $100 million in ARR
    • 2.5 million websites built in June alone ("10% of all new sites on the Internet that month" - [01:25], Kieran)
    • 45+ employees, $1.8 billion valuation.
    • 150,000+ websites with significant real traffic.

• Unexpected Virality ([05:09], Anton)

  • The growth was beyond expectations, with continuous acceleration and compounding momentum, largely driven by product virality and user empowerment.

Notable Quote

"It was such a huge step up from anything else that was out there. ...It continued over many, many months, just continued to growing faster and faster. That was a bit surreal."
— Anton Osika [05:09]

2. The Democratisation of Building: Implications

• Empowering Marketers & Non-Developers ([06:44], Kieran & Anton)
  • Marketers (and other non-coders) can independently build sophisticated apps—e.g., internal tools, creative writing assistants, ROI calculators.
  • Removing dependency on engineering resources fosters faster experimentation, prototyping, and value delivery.
  • Internal innovation speeds up ("the transition from memo to demo" - [08:53], Kieran)—ideas now materialize as working prototypes, not just slide decks.

Notable Quote

"Now, the other 99% can all code… The app that I built in Lovable is like real software that I'm going to be releasing for users."
— Kieran Flanagan [06:03]

3. Rethinking Company Building in the AI Era

• High-leverage Teams and Culture ([10:36], Anton)
  • Focus on small, multifaceted, rapidly learning generalists ("people with a high slope").
  • Prioritize team obsession with users, product, collaboration, and humility.
  • Many roles are now powered by AI; domain expertise remains valuable but creativity, speed, and learning capacity are critical.

Notable Quote

"Much of the work that is not human facing is going to almost be instant and unlocked... you want individuals... really good at a bit of everything."
— Anton Osika [10:36]

• Shift from Specialists to Generalists? ([12:01], Anton & Kieran)
  • Deep expertise valuable for complex products, but AI augments generalists and makes creativity/learning more crucial, especially in marketing.

4. The New Marketing Playbook

• Distribution vs. Product ([13:49], Anton)

  • Code is becoming commoditized; product excellence and distribution skill (sales/marketing/growth) become decisive.
  • Rapid prototyping leads to a flood of new products, increasing the importance of audience-building and creative distribution.

• Creator-Led Productization ([15:57], Kieran & Anton)

  • B2B is getting more like B2C; creators can easily monetize their audiences by quickly launching apps with Lovable.
  • Consumer trust is shifting towards familiar faces (creators), but multiple successful models remain.

• Virality and Free Marketing ([16:34], Anton & Kieran)

  • Lovable thrives primarily on product-led virality (“magic of the tool”).
  • Marketing’s next big role: amplifying word of mouth, community enablement, explaining evolving product capabilities, and facilitating onboarding.

Notable Quote

"Marketing... is mostly about amplifying the word of mouth, which is like the absolutely largest channel for everything in customer acquisition.”
— Anton Osika [17:03]

• Brand and Product Stunts ([18:34], Kieran)
  • Creative ideas for brand activation (e.g., "Lovable Eats" cloud kitchen, recreating pitch decks as apps live).
  • Real-world interventions and content experiments to deepen visibility and showcase product capability.

5. Real-world No-Code Marketing Use Cases

• Interactive Lead Magnets ([21:14], Kieran)
  • Replace static PDFs with interactive, code-powered experiences (e.g., ROI calculators tailored for different customer personas).
  • Marketers can now easily create, iterate, and segment experiences for micro-audiences, increasing relevance and personalization.

Notable Quote

"I think we can actually tailor these experiences much more through apps like Lovable... and bring your ideas to life in more creative and interactive ways."
— Kieran Flanagan [23:27]

• Organizational Impacts ([24:18], Anton & Kieran)
  • Leaner teams, more autonomy, storytellers and technical generalists flourish.
  • Breaking down silos: “AI marketing generalists” can run end-to-end campaigns without the need for constant team handoffs.

Notable Quote

"You can now have AI marketing generalists who are really in this pod structure and they can do like end to end marketing. They don't have to hand off to this person..."
— Kieran Flanagan [25:03]

6. The Talent Factor: Staying Relevant in an AI World

• Curiosity as the Killer Skill ([30:26], Anton)
  • Age doesn’t matter as much as curiosity, experimentation, and proactivity.
  • “Demo over memo”—action and iteration beat planning and passive learning.
  • Autonomous, proactive, and curious individuals are best positioned for AI-empowered workplaces.

Notable Quote

"Stay very, very curious... have a strong bias to try things out and always take a lot of actions. Not wait. I think the demo memo is one of the ways of speaking about how I think people should be acting.”
— Anton Osika [30:26]

7. Future-Proofing as a Marketer

• Start Early, Learn Fast ([28:15], Kieran & Anton)
  • Early adopters of Lovable will gain a compounded edge in speed and versatility as these tools become standard.
  • Marketers should focus on granular segmentation, micro-site creation, and integrating data sources for maximum customization (the "micro-audiences" principle).

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Every human is like a builder at heart. Unleashing that agency is what we want to contribute to.” — Anton Osika [24:18]
• “AI is a bazooka for the curious mind.” — Kieran Flanagan (paraphrasing Kipp Bodnar) [31:05]
• “The transition from memo to demo.” — Kieran Flanagan [08:53]
• “You used to have to work with engineers in marketing… You can just take your idea… and then build the whole thing yourself.” — Anton Osika [07:17]
• "If you’re listening to this podcast and you are now starting to use Lovable, you should feel excited because you are in the early adopter stage.” — Kieran Flanagan [27:07]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:25] — Lovable’s breakthrough growth stat (2.5 million sites in one month)
• [02:10] — Anton's journey from YC CTO to AI/no-code pioneer
• [04:09] — Launch timeline & virality of Lovable
• [05:09] — When Anton realized Lovable’s growth was unprecedented
• [06:44] — The “world where everyone can code” and its significance
• [08:53] — "Memo to demo": speed of prototyping/innovation
• [10:36] — AI-native company building philosophy
• [13:49] — Distribution, code commoditization, & marketing's new role
• [15:57] — The shift to creator-led software business models
• [17:03] — How Anton sees the function of marketing at Lovable
• [21:14] — Live demo: building programmatic lead magnets with Lovable
• [23:27] — Personalized, scalable marketing experiences
• [25:03] — Flattening marketing roles into AI generalists
• [28:15] — Why now is the time to adopt and experiment with tools like Lovable
• [30:26] — The talent mindset for thriving in AI companies

Summary Takeaways

• Lovable is enabling a historic shift: Anyone—especially non-engineers—can now build real software, creating a tidal wave of creativity and entrepreneurship.
• Company building is evolving: Flat, agile teams of curious generalists who iterate quickly are outpacing traditional, siloed organizations.
• Marketing is redefined: The coming era prizes personalized, programmatic experiences and distribution mastery, while code becomes a (nearly) free commodity.
• The most valuable skills are curiosity, tenacity, creativity, and a bias for action. Age, background, or title matter much less than the ability to try, learn, and adapt.
• Early adopters will gain an outsized edge: The future will normalize these no-code tools, but today’s experimenters stand to gain the most.

For marketers:
If you’re not experimenting with AI-enabled no-code tools like Lovable, you risk falling behind. The opportunity is vast for those willing to break old patterns and build, test, and distribute at breakneck speed. The days of begging engineering for a landing page are over—if you’re curious, the future is yours to build.