A (2:37)

So the setup here, Kieran, is that Equinox, which is a Very famous fitness brand, SoulCycle, Equinox gyms in the US the UK. You know, it's January, it's fitness time. They got to stand out. If you're not in the game, if people aren't talking about you at the height of your season, you're going to fail. And so they ran this campaign like we were just talking about.

B (2:58)

Look, I think we have gone through the kind of growth and scale phase of AI slop. These eight second clips that are pretty out there. Like I was a big fan of old sitcoms and there was a classic sitcom called Monty Python. I was a big Monty Python fan.

A (3:13)

Very on brand for you.

B (3:14)

If you ever watched an episode of Monty Python, you're like, wow, this is a pretty crazy type of comedy. Lots of random things stitched together in bizarre ways. And that is a lot of what you see. AI tools and AI slot being created by the non, you know, craftspeople. Right. Like it's easy to go from zero to like creating something. But real demand experts are using AI to do like much better things. And I think they capture something really well. Like that's part of marketing is capturing the cultural moment, which is, I think people are really starting to get sick of this AI generated content. I can tell you as I have a WhatsApp group that are non technical friends, they don't want to have anything to do with tech. They spend all of their time doing other things. And kudos to them, it's much better than what we do for a living. And they spend a bunch of time on Instagram. I don't really spend any time on Instagram. And they were like, hey, I don't think I can use this platform anymore. It's just filled with AI clips. And that's like the mass market telling us that this is not improving their experience. It's actually making it much worse. And I think that's what that ad is doing at the kind of moment we went through for AI generated content, I think is starting to cause a bunch of backlash across the ether, across consumers.

A (4:23)

Yeah, I think there's a couple things going on here. One, I think we're in the messy middle of especially AI video and AI content creation where we don't have any guardrails. Technology's pretty good, but it's not great yet. There's a lot of things happening. One of the things I would tell everybody watching this, if you've never worked with like a super expensive big budget ad agency from Madison Avenue or from London, the thing that they're actually really great at that. Those agencies are remarkable at are trying to capture the zeitgeist and try to be counterculture to what's happening in the world. And that's what this ad is, right? This ad is basically saying, hey, I'm going to take derivatives or clips from some of the most popular AI videos and kind of repurpose them in a way that instead of makes them entertaining, makes them ridiculous. Right? And the story is about how ridiculous the world is and how you can actually stand out and that, like, while everything might be fake, you're not and you can believe in yourself. And Kieran, I just want to take a little bit of a victory lap because months ago I called the AI backlash. And you know, this is the start of my victory lap because I think this ad is going to kind of be a seminal moment of this year of consumer sentiment going away from AI. And we were talking about this before we started the show and I think you had a really good point where because AI backlash, because of the lack of authenticity, because of things like the Grok reply on X, if you use x.com as a social network, you can now rock anything and get an AI response. And it's just creating a bunch of AI spam on the platform, right? Because all these things, what matters now? Look, AI content is everywhere right now and most of it is total garbage. It's low effort, generic, and frankly obvious. But AI isn't the problem. Bad prompts are. We built a system with 20 prompts that keep your content human. Ideation, creation, distribution, optimization, the whole thing. Get it right. Now click the link in the description. Now let's get back to the show. What's your take on. In a world where there's an AI backlash, in a world where there's AI, AI slop, what do you as a marketer, as a business need to do to be successful?

B (6:39)

Yeah, and I think actually the Equinox campaign captured that. So their whole thing was, this is not anti AI. I think it tapped into a feeling around AI slop. But that actually wasn't the reasoning for the campaign. What they wanted to tap into is you can't use AI for the transformation. So if you want to really, you know, up level your body and get really fit, you can't use AI to do that. That's part of, like you as a human going through the transformational experience and doing that. Right? And AI can help you. You can track your workouts. It can actually be a coach. But you as a human are doing the transformational work to get better. I feel the very same way for everyone who is going to use AI in 2026, which is AI to me is incredible for people with deep domain expertise. So it actually means your expertise and your craft making skills are going to be more important than ever. Because when you have those things, you can then use AI to do more of it and better versions of it, right? So you see a lot of the content being created on AI and a lot of the slop is being created by people who are just having fun, right? They are not trying to do something transformational with it. They're trying to create things, get tons of, tons of engagement, but has long lasting appeal. I guess, like longevity and that's what actually creates slop is like, oh, I'm just going to like get something done in a couple of seconds, you know, put it out there and I move, move on with my life. And I think that stuff is going to start to really turn people off. And if you're using AI to do lazy things and if you're using AI to say, well, I actually this thing that took me 10 hours can take me five minutes. And I don't really care about the longevity of it, I don't really care about the performance of it. I just want to get done. That stuff is going to go away and not work and turn people off. And what really is going to come to the forefront is people who really understand their craft and can use AI to create things with real authenticity and real longevity. And I do wonder if like at some point things labeled human first or human organic or like this video is like 90% created by humans, only 10% AI, like that's the stuff that's going to really appeal to people. People don't want to consume AI because what does all of that AI content really lack? It lacks personality, right? It doesn't have any real personality behind it. It doesn't really have any kind of authenticity behind it. And I think that more and more and more that's what's going to really count in terms of how you do marketing and how you show up in the web.

A (8:58)

I think there are a couple things here. I think the most basic thing we're saying is like if you're ignorant on a subject without AI, then you're 10x ignorant on a subject with AI, right? Like AI is just going to exponentially multiply your ignorance. It's not going to fix it. And there are a lot of people who are like, oh, I can pretend or show that I know something, or can do something I'm really not incapable of doing with AI. And that's really what generates AI Slop.

B (9:24)

Right.

A (9:24)

And what's generating, I think, the sentiment that led Equinox to make this ad. I completely agree with the point you're making, which is the Internet's about to have its like, organic produce moment. You know, somehow we poisoned our food supply to the point where we now get to pay a premium for organic produce that was not used with pesticides and all this stuff. There's going to be a premium on organic, human driven content. You know, I look at this and it's like there are more great people telling stories in the world through podcasts, through long form writing and everything than ever in human history. Like I cannot keep up with it. And that is remarkable. And I think those people are going to still win and win big. I don't think AI is a headwind to that at all. I think AI is a tailwind. It's going to make those people stand out even more in a sea of meme eight second clips. Right. And I think the reason we wanted to do this show today, a couple things. It's like one, to tell you that there's an AI backlash, but two, to tell you that that backlash has a real opportunity for marketers and that it is more important than ever to have deep knowledge of a craft, have perspective, share that in a human and authentic way. The way Kieran and I are trying to do it, the way so many people out there are trying to do it. Like this is the year to really stand out in doing that. I know we've talked about creating and making content for a long time, but it feels like ironically, the AI slop is making 2026 kind of a watershed moment for that.

B (10:53)

What do we mean by authenticity and marketing? I think it always comes back to the timeless skill of positioning.

A (10:59)

Right? Yeah.

B (11:00)

There was this incredible campaign that Patagonia, which is the well known brand for investors on Wall street, they ran this full page ad in New York Times in 2011, Black Friday, where they said, don't buy this jacket. Right. Like the opposite of what every other brand would be doing on that day within papers in terms of how they use their ad slot. And one of the reasons they did that is they were basically talking about how over consumption was destroying the world and they wanted to be the opposite of that. Like, you buy one of our jackets, only buy it if you need it. And that led to them becoming like the brand of choice for people who were conscious about the planet. Like Very conscious buyer. And so I think that's like an example of how you can show up in an authentic way. And so AI could still help you craft the ad, AI could still help you build some of the assets. But how you show up on the Internet in an authentic way within your marketing content is going to be like very human LED and will have to stand the test of time. And I think you have to be very aware of how you're using AI, because I do think we're going to enter an era where it actually could be a net negative for you. And if people start to see you churning out a bunch of AI content and you start to just feel like a very inauthentic brand.

A (12:11)

Hey, everyone, we'll be right back to the show. But first, let me tell you about a podcast that I love. It's a podcast called I Digress. It is hosted by my friend Troy Sandage. And I Digress is great. It's got 30 minute episodes and the podcast is all about helping you eliminate complexity, complications and confusions in your business. It's really heavy in frameworks and strategies to help you scale and sustain your success. And you can listen to all the episodes of I Digress anywhere you get your podcasts. I think that's really good advice. And I think that what we're really trying to say is AI is not a replacement for deep human thought.

B (12:52)

Right.

A (12:52)

On, like, I have an audience, this audience cares about this, and I want to really tell stories that are authentic to that. AI can make the research to figure that out much easier. It can make the execution to tell that story much easier and faster. But it can't replace the quality of thought and the depth of thought necessary. Like, you know, when somebody has spent a long time on something and it's really good. I've always looked at this as like, creative density. Is it like really dense? Like, at every layer you're like, oh, somebody thought about that, somebody thought about that, somebody thought about that. And I think the reaction we're getting from AI Slop is like, nobody thought about that. Nobody thought about that, Nobody thought about it. And it's just like they click some buttons, they hit send and they moved on.

B (13:32)

Right.

A (13:32)

And I think we're kind of railing against that on the show today. Like, that is a sure fired recipe to fail. Right.

B (13:39)

I think we are moving towards the era of tastemakers. I think tastemakers are going to be the people who truly win in their markets, marketers who are true tastemakers. And AI is a tool to do that. But it is not a outsource avenue to actually offload that craft, too.

A (13:56)

Yeah.

B (13:57)

And I think that's what that ad spoke to, to me is like, hey, I can help us do a lot. But that transformational story, that core craft, that core discipline, the work you put in to be the better version of yourself, in this case as a marketer, you want to be a true tastemaker. That is all going to come from within you and your ability to actually learn your craft and do incredible work.

A (14:17)

So if I'm a marketer right now, Karen, I'm sitting here in the first full week of January. I've got full heart, big dreams ahead. I got the year ahead of me. And I'm excited about AI. I'm excited about all of this. They've been watching our podcast and learning how to do stuff with AI. What the hell am I supposed to do at this intersection of time? What are, like, the couple of very specific things that I should go into?

B (14:41)

Yeah. As we say in poker, you turn up with a chip in a dream, a single chip in a dream. I think you create. I think you have to be passionate about creating. First of all, you need to have good ideas. And to have good ideas, I think you need to have real experiences. And there will be experiences within work. There'll be experiences within learning from others experience and learnin what others have done. Like, you actually have to have real ideas, and ideas come from knowledge. And I think once you have, like, really great ideas, you now have unbridled ways to bring those ideas to life. You're not dependent upon a job. Like, you don't have to sit there and go, well, I can only learn my craft and get better at my craft if my company allows me to or even have the kind of company that allows me to do this work. No craft has been democratized. You can use VO3 to go do a production Word video today. You can go use Nano Banana to do all types of different design work today. You can use a coding tool to go do all types of work today. And I think you have to get much more experience in actually creating things. This is like moving from marketers who used to optimize things to marketers who have to, like, ship and build things. I think there's a great quote from Mark Anderson. It's like one of the most famous quotes with, this is the time to build. I think for marketers, like, this is the time to create. We have to get back to creating. And I think whatever that means for you of how you can become Better disciplined and more knowledgeable at creating. I would do those things. And so for someone, it might be your core passion is video. And you're all like, if I could bring my ideas, life in video, that would be amazing to me. I would spend all of my time in that tool.

A (16:12)

Right.

B (16:12)

I wouldn't try to get too unfocused or you're like, I have so many ideas for, like, free tools and things that I could build that would attract an audience to my personal brand or the brand that I'm working for. Go focus on that. So I think, like, part of it is what kind of creator you want to be. And I mean that from a marketing perspective. I don't mean that from like a go start a substack. And then which parts of that do you want to excel at?

A (16:33)

I think that's really good advice. I think the other advice that I'd add in is, is humans, the concept of life. That is the most important that we, I think, conceptually understand the least is compounding math and how over time the effects of compounding just become very exponential. And I'm not going to explain compounding math to you. I'm here to say that most people that I talk to when I talk about AI, they kind of say exactly what you were just saying, Kieran, I want to do this thing right. And I would just urge everybody to replace the word do with learn. Right? And AI allows you to learn way faster than ever before. And nothing compounds like learning, nothing. Like, we have this loop marketing playbook that we talk about and that we're running. That's all that is, is about how do I learn in a really structured and compounding way. And so be very clear on what you're practicing in a way to learn and get better. If you just keep outsourcing your learning to AI and just want to do a bunch of random stuff, you're not going to be successful. If you learn over the course of days, weeks, months, how to do something, how to craft a message better, how to tell a story better, how to make a better video, then you are going to be exponentially more successful. And I think that is what Equinox is trying to talk about, this ad. I think that's why we kind of liked this ad and wanted to talk about it a little bit, but also wanted to talk about why the AI backlash is happening. And I think what we've given you at the end of the show here is, is an anecdote to what we think needs to happen in this world where we're seeing this AI backlash come to true. What else Karen, anything else we're missing?

B (18:09)

I think we are going to see a backlash. I think lazy AI is going to be a point of friction for your brand not a point of momentum for your brand. I think what we're saying is like remove AI the core craft is going to really matter. Learn the craft, be disciplined, be focused. AI is a tool that helps you shorten the feedback loops and learn much, much faster but your core craft and skill is going to really matter and so that's what you want to spend some reps on and really develop them.

A (18:35)

I love that. Drop a comment, let us know what you thought of the ad, what your take on the state of AI and AI slop in the world is and how you're differentiating and hit that like and subscribe and we'll see you real soon. Back on marketing against the green. Sam.