Why That Worked #1: Frameworks—The Invisible Structure Behind Every Great Idea

Summary

Podcast Summary: Marketing Made Simple Episode: Why That Worked #1: Frameworks—The Invisible Structure Behind Every Great Idea
Release Date: January 8, 2025

---

Introduction

In the premiere episode of the new podcast series "Why That Worked," hosted by Donald Miller and Kyle Reed, the hosts delve into the critical role that frameworks play in the success of ideas, brands, and various endeavors. Building on the foundation of Marketing Made Simple, this episode sets the stage for a series that unpacks the underlying structures behind successful concepts, providing listeners with actionable insights to apply in their own projects.

Understanding Frameworks

Donald Miller introduces the concept of frameworks as the backbone of successful ideas and brands. He emphasizes that frameworks serve as mental maps, guiding individuals from their current state to their desired outcomes without the need for constant decision-making.

Donald Miller [05:01]: "I would define frameworks as rules and boundaries."

Defining Frameworks

Kyle Reed and Donald Miller explore what constitutes a framework, using examples like the P90X workout program. They illustrate how frameworks consist of rules and guidelines that streamline activities, making processes more efficient and easier to follow.

Donald Miller [03:16]: "I think because it is a framework, and the way I think we're going to be able to define them, hopefully, and the way we're going to talk about why they succeeded, actually explain why almost every episode that we're going to record from here on out what it's actually about."

Donald Miller’s Journey with Frameworks

Miller shares his personal journey of discovering and utilizing frameworks in his professional life. Beginning as a writer, he was influenced by authors like Anne Lamott and Frank McCourt, who unknowingly employed frameworks in their writing. This realization led him to formalize these structures into the StoryBrand framework, which significantly contributed to his success.

Donald Miller [07:38]: "That's how you came up with the StoryBrand framework."

Importance of Frameworks in Thought Leadership

The hosts discuss how frameworks differentiate thought leaders from those who merely possess ideas. By structuring thoughts into frameworks, individuals can effectively communicate and teach their concepts, thereby establishing themselves as leaders in their fields.

Donald Miller [15:01]: "Frameworks are really important if you are a thought leader or want to be a thought leader. There's a lot of people who have ideas out there. And let me tell you the difference between a smart person with ideas and a thought leader is frameworks 100%."

Creating Frameworks

Miller outlines the steps to create effective frameworks:

1. Turn Ideas into Rules: Establish clear steps or guidelines.
2. Incorporate Best Practices: Ensure the framework is built on proven methods.
3. Visual Representation: Use visuals to simplify and communicate the framework.

He likens the creation of frameworks to developing a recipe, where each step is crucial for the desired outcome.

Donald Miller [17:06]: "The first thing would be turn it into rules."

Practical Applications and Examples

The conversation highlights various existing frameworks such as Six Sigma, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, SWOT Analysis, and Simon Sinek's Golden Circle. These examples demonstrate how frameworks are ubiquitous across different disciplines, providing structure and clarity.

Donald Miller [15:06]: "The Golden Circle framework is his jobs to be done is a framework that helped Intuit doubled its stock price in only two years."

Personal Insights and Recommendations

Reed and Miller share personal anecdotes to illustrate the effectiveness of frameworks. They discuss how implementing frameworks in daily routines, like morning rituals or workout plans, can lead to consistent success and efficiency.

Donald Miller [23:28]: "Rules are every day of 2025, there's a workout."

Upcoming Releases and Tools

Miller announces the release of "Building a StoryBrand 2.0," an expanded version of his original book, incorporating additional success stories and introducing StoryBrand AI, a free tool for creating brand scripts and taglines. Additionally, they promote a creative endeavor, "StoryBrand Radio Theater Presents Pete and Joe Save Their Mother’s Company," a radio drama available on Audible.

Donald Miller [23:46]: "It's building a StoryBrand 2.0. I added about 10,000 words."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with an invitation to listeners to recognize and create their own frameworks, emphasizing the transformative power frameworks hold in simplifying complex tasks and fostering success. Miller and Reed set the tone for future episodes, promising to dissect various frameworks behind successful brands and trends.

Kyle Reed [22:03]: "But I really think that everybody listening to this has some unique thing they figured out that they know."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller [05:01]: "I would define frameworks as rules and boundaries."
• Donald Miller [15:01]: "Frameworks are really important if you are a thought leader or want to be a thought leader."
• Donald Miller [17:06]: "The first thing would be turn it into rules."
• Kyle Reed [22:03]: "But I really think that everybody listening to this has some unique thing they figured out that they know."

---

Listeners are encouraged to subscribe to the Why That Worked podcast on their preferred platforms or the StoryBrand YouTube channel to catch new episodes every Monday. Dive deeper into the world of frameworks and transform your ideas into actionable, structured successes.

Transcript

[Bobby Richards]

Hey, hero makers, it's podcast producer Bobby Richards. I'm jumping in to share with you a new episode of our brand new podcast, why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI with Donald Miller back in the host seat. Now, since we launched Marketing Made simple, we've been so grateful to have everybody tune in each week to learn how to make your marketing easy and make it work. Which is exactly why we're sharing new episodes of the why that Worked podcast here. In the old Marketing Made simple feedback, but only for a limited time. Each episode of the new show is going to deliver actionable insights and key takeaways that are all designed so you can implement them to help make whatever you're working on work. Now, here's the deal. Like I said, this is only for a limited time. If you want to catch new episodes early, you can watch or listen every Monday. To watch the show, just go subscribe to the StoryBrand YouTube channel. And to listen, go follow why that worked presented by StoryBrand AI wherever you enjoy your podcasts. All right, that's it from me. So grateful you're here and enjoy this week's episode of why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI. You're listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Donald Miller]

Kyle Reed, the first episode of the why that Worked podcast is upon us.

[Kyle Reed]

We're here on an awesome brand new set.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. One of the reasons we're doing this podcast and talking about best practices and why things worked is just because you and I are always having these conversations.

[Kyle Reed]

And one of the things we realized is in these conversations about why things worked, that there's a lot of value in these conversations.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

That. Yeah. Not just for me and you, but for other people to hear as well.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

You know, some of the things I've already written down is some ideas for some shows is like, why does TikTok work?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Have you thought about that?

[Donald Miller]

I've thought about that from the perspective of social media a lot.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Another one, what's funny is immediately when you say, why does TikTok work? My brain starts going. Starts listing reasons. Right. And then you want to actually go to artificial intelligence, say, okay. And get all the stories out of that.

[Kyle Reed]

Another one is like, around The Office. There's a lot of people here who are big fans of, like, Taylor Swift. So I'm asking myself, are we gonna.

[Donald Miller]

Do a Taylor Swift episode?

[Kyle Reed]

I think we should.

[Donald Miller]

Really?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Well, it's a good time.

[Donald Miller]

Do you even want to go there? There's so many landmines.

[Kyle Reed]

I know. I feel like I should.

[Donald Miller]

People are very touchy and very.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay, you tell us what we're going to talk about. Transition us out of that.

[Donald Miller]

I'm willing to go, but I think we need mediators. I want to talk about. And I don't know if you're going to let us do it, but, you know, if we're going to agree to it. Tattoos, because they're everywhere. Tattoos were like, I have a tattoo now. That was a totally, like, rebellious, crazy, like, why would you mark your skin permanently? And now they're totally socially accepted and all that kind of stuff. I'd love to do an episode on the history of them, what the utilitarian purposes of them were early on, when it became a cultural identity. That stuff is gonna be, I think, really fun.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. We have other conversations. Top Gun.

[Donald Miller]

Top Gun Maverick.

[Kyle Reed]

Top Gun Maverick.

[Donald Miller]

We've actually. We've put down a date on the calendar to record that one, so that one's a go.

[Kyle Reed]

Today, though, what are we gonna talk about?

[Donald Miller]

Frameworks.

[Kyle Reed]

Frameworks. Why should we start with frameworks, you think?

[Donald Miller]

I think because it is a frameworks, and the way I think we're going to be able to define them, hopefully, and the way we're going to talk about why they succeeded, actually explain why almost every episode that we're going to record from here on out with what it's actually about. In other words, like Top Maverick, which I think we've greenlighted, is a framework. The movie itself is a framework. The roll up to the movie is a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

I see what you're saying.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And I think once you understand what frameworks are, why they work, how they work, and maybe how to create them, you can change the world.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. And a lot of the stuff we're talking about seems like they follow a framework. And so every episode is probably going to examine a framework.

[Donald Miller]

It's the operating system that everything is operating on in terms of intellectual ideas. I would actually call a framework something like a mental map.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh, okay.

[Donald Miller]

It's a map that you can actually get your head around where you are, where we want to go, why we want to go there, how to get there. But it's almost like an idea map.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. I feel like that's one of your superpowers is discovering frameworks for businesses, for yourself. I know for me, over the last 10 years I've discovered, I didn't realize it, but it was kind of like peeking behind a curtain going, oh, this is all just structured frameworks. People have just created a better process than I have. But kind of just that revelation of that over time, of realizing that everything I'm doing, whether it being being a dad, being a worker, being a better husband, whatever, even golfer, it's just around a framework. Yeah, it's around a process.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

So I guess my question is, as I'm. As we're talking here is how would you even define frameworks?

[Donald Miller]

I would define frameworks. It's a great question and probably get some pushback from the audience or at least some midrash. But I would define frameworks as rules and boundaries.

[Kyle Reed]

Go more. Yeah, total.

[Donald Miller]

So if you're going to do like P90X is a framework. Right. So the rules are for the next 90 days, you're going to eat this, you're going to get up, you're going to do this workout on day one, this workout on day two. There are rules that maybe help us understand and activate and execute virtually anything. In fact, I just put together my rules for 2025 workout and there's three resistance workouts, R1, R2, R3, there's a cardio one that is symbolized with the letter C. And I put up a calendar, an entire 2025 calendar on my gym wall. And I've got to write R1, R2, R3 or C or H, which is I was in a hotel room on each of those days. Every single day of 2025 has to be filled. And you know, these are 20 minute workouts, some of them. So you know, you just got to get down to the garage and lift some weights and get out and write your thing on the thing. The whole idea, even the idea of step one, put a calendar on your wall. Step two, figure out five different exercises with 10 reps and the weights and then call that R1, R2, R3, the next day. C for cardio, H for if you're in a hotel room. Everything I just said is the creation of a get in shape framework. So that's what a frame, that's an example. It's rules and guidelines, it's processes that you would take to streamline activity. Now, for everybody listening, if you can turn whatever you're doing into a framework, you can help a lot more people because they can get Their mind around it. So much easier. But, yeah, I think the discovery of frameworks, for me personally, was groundbreaking. It was a total shift in my career because Blue Light Jazz and A Million Miles in a Thousand Years and father fiction, there weren't frameworks really. Maybe father fiction a little bit, but there weren't frameworks in those books. And then I did a consulting job for Accenture, the big, powerful consulting firm, and they needed me to create a framework based on some narrative ideas. And that framework was a project management framework. And then I thought, well, that would work for marketing. And all of a sudden, I was penning a framework that. I don't even think I knew what a framework was while I was writing it, but that started everything. And I think every book I've written since then has been a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Wow. So that's how you came up with the story brand framework.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, it's a derivative of a project management framework that nobody ever. I mean, 50 people saw it at a consulting firm. I didn't. You know, I started my career as a writer. I wrote memoirs. And so I would read Anne Lamott. I would read Frank McCourt. I would read, you know, I'd read books, and then I'd try to write my own memoir based on some of the way that they wrote theirs. And they were vulnerable here. And then they got to the point here, and they kind of did a deep dive here. And then they started chapters like this, and they ended chapters like this. What I didn't realize I was doing by reading all these books and trying to imitate them in some way, or at least use what's working in their book in my own voice to. To write my story is I was actually like an archaeologist slowly uncovering frameworks. William Zinsser, his book on writing, well, his frameworks on how to write nonfiction. Ray Bradbury has a book on writing. Stephen King has a book on writing. And then slowly, as I began to uncover, oh, wait, wait, these are frameworks, I didn't think of them as frameworks. I thought they were just advice on writing. But these authors had their frameworks, and so I started using these frameworks, and my books got better. In fact, my first book sold 10,000 copies. My second book sold 1.4 million. And I would say the difference is I discovered frameworks between those two even before that.

[Kyle Reed]

When did you. For your early life, were you noticing frameworks were playing a part in your life and kind of learning about just the. Were you aware of that when you were working on something?

[Donald Miller]

I don't know if I was aware of it, but I had the privilege and strange experience of growing up in a Southern Baptist church. Every pastor who got up there and gave a sermon had turned a passage of scripture into a framework. You know, I was indoctrinated in that every week and every Wednesday night because my mother went to church on Sundays and on Wednesdays. And I was indoctrinated in these sort of system speak. But really, when I probably between prayer in the Art of Volkswagen Maintenance, my first book, and Blue Like Jazz, my second book, I discovered narrative frameworks. I discovered Robert McKee and Steve Taylor, who's a dear friend to this day. And I went to Southern California with my roommate Jordan Green, and we attended a Robert McKee story seminar. Robert McKee is actually famous for sort of yelling and diminishing the people in his audience. If you ask a stupid question, he's.

[Kyle Reed]

Going to let you know.

[Donald Miller]

He's going to let you know, and he's going to let you know loud. He'll even kick people out. So everybody's afraid of him. So that's kind of fun. But he teaches this. How do you open the movie? How do you close it? What happens in the Act 2, midpoint climax, all of that stuff. He's wildly entertaining and certainly very brilliant. He wrote a book called Story, and it's really good. That was my introduction to a narrative framework and really my introduction to really formalizing processes. And later I read a book called Save the Cat by Blake Snyder. That book Story, a book called the Seven Basic Plots, all the way back to Plato's Poetics. All of these are explanations of how story structure worked. So I developed my own story structure and put it into building a story brand. And that book sold a million copies.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And so, you know, I went from using frameworks, discovering frameworks, being indoctrinated in frameworks, using them to write better, and then ultimately creating one. And I never even knew it, but frameworks have really guided my entire life and benefited me.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, I that clicked for me. I was talking to a friend not too long ago. He jumping into executive coach and super sharp guy. I think at one point he was lamenting to me a little bit of like, why am I not getting more clients? Or like, what's going on here?

[Donald Miller]

Well, he needs a framework, and that's like clients framework.

[Kyle Reed]

I said the thing that. Yeah, you're doing it there.

[Donald Miller]

So step one, create a lead generator. Step two, qualify those leads.

[Kyle Reed]

And it just hit me in the moment I was talking to him and I think You've rubbed off on me so much, but I just said, what's your framework like? You have no. You're talking. You want people to hire you. You have no process. I can't define what you're doing. And I think that was the light bulb moment for him and for me in that moment of going, oh, if I want to grow this or if I want to be successful in this area, if I don't surround it with a framework, it's not. I can't. I'm not going to be successful. So even to your analogy about exercising, it's almost like you've taken the thought out of the actual process because you've defined, I'm just gonna follow these steps. It's gonna get me to where I want to go.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And that's a very interesting point, Kyle, because I'm convinced that the brain looks to. The brain is always looking for cheat codes. Remember that game Chutes and Ladders?

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Where you could actually take like a shoot and skip, like 30 paces.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. My girls love do that Candy Land. They're always hoping if they hit the one.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a framework. When you hit that, like, weight loss framework, you're skipping a bunch of steps and you're making everything easier. The human brain's attraction to frameworks is actually that it saves them mental calories.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

The brain burns between 6 and 800 calories a day, about 20% of the calories you burn, depending on your weight. And all that kind of stuff is burned by your brain. And it's also always trying not to burn those calories because it's trying to conserve them in case you need cognitive resources later in the day. So it's always trying. It's actually weirdly trying not to think.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And so when you actually say, you know, here's a great way to lose weight, it's 90 days, you're going to do this. What you're saying is you don't have to actually think about any of this. You don't have to make decisions. You don't have to do the research. Just do what I tell you to do in this order. And at the end of it, according to television, they look pretty good.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

So they also work.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, no. 100%. You're right. I think that's so fascinating because I don't. I think a lot of us are walking around. We don't realize that that is what we are doing. We are looking. You know, one of the things.

[Donald Miller]

Listen, you driving to work today you drove on a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

The road is a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. I didn't really kind of pay attention. It just guided me along. I think that's the thing that's interesting about this, is even to some of the things I've talked to you about is my view of what's going on right now across the media landscape is it's about curation. So for me, I think everybody is. Not everybody. It's a little exaggerative, but a lot of people are outsourcing their thinking to people they trust.

[Donald Miller]

When. We always have. Yeah, we always have.

[Kyle Reed]

So for someone at, you know, listening to this, and I've got a lot already running in my head around frameworks. Like, how would someone translate this to a framework for themselves? Or how can they even.

[Donald Miller]

Like their own ideas?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Or even like I'm thinking about, like, my morning routine is all structured in a framework, and if I follow that, I have success. So someone listening to this, I think a natural question they're wondering is, is.

[Donald Miller]

We'Ve talked about how can I make.

[Kyle Reed]

A framework, why frameworks are important, but now how do I make a framework for myself?

[Donald Miller]

That is a question. Let me say this. Six Sigma bills for over a billion dollars a year. Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs discussed and taught in every school in this country, and rightly so. The four Ps of marketing. Another marketing framework, SWOT analysis. Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. Very, very popular framework. The Lean Startup Methodology. Simon Sinek is a great framework creator. He really is brilliant at that.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

He flipped the whole framework on its head. But then walked you through the framework.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we love him because he simplifies very complicated ideas. And also he's just a likable guy. The Golden Circle framework is his jobs to be done is a framework that helped Intuit doubled its stock price in only two years. Did you know that?

[Kyle Reed]

No, I had no idea.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, they incorporated a framework and they doubled their stock price because productivity increased so much. The Business Model Canvas, you've heard of that, right? Yep. That's been used by millions of businesses worldwide. The story Brand framework. Listen, the story Brand framework helps you say it clearly. And I couldn't. And I hope that we're the world leader on that, on helping you say it clearly. So frameworks are really important if you are a thought leader or want to be a thought leader. There's a lot of people who have ideas out there. And let me tell you the difference between a smart person with ideas and a thought leader. Is frameworks 100%. That's it. Huberman is a smart guy. His new book, Protocol, turns him into a thought leader because he's turning all this stuff into actual processes and protocols, which is a framework. The book might as well be called frameworks.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Well, look at, like, James Clear. He's written what, one Atomic Habits. That's a frameworks book. He wrote it how many years ago? I mean, it's still.

[Donald Miller]

It's a best practices of some of it is the best practices of existing frameworks. But he's a genius at making them even more simple.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

The framework is having figured out what works.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. And I think the reassuring thing to me is that's then your unique. That's what makes you unique, is your perspective.

[Donald Miller]

I believe in.

[Kyle Reed]

On a framework.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

You walk in and you go, this is my morning routine framework, and this is why I do it. And these are the reasons. And you hear that from me, you go, oh, that's interesting. I never thought about that. And then I hear yours, and then we go back and forth. But it's a unique perspective on how I. But it's still structure. I don't just. I've, you know, two kids. I don't just randomly wake up like I've. There's a reason why I wake up at the time I do because of the goal I have to get me somewhere, and the framework keeps me going on that.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Tell me more about. You know, we've been kind of going around a little bit of like, how can someone create frameworks or show up to frameworks.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. I would say the first rule would be turn it into rules.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

So you're looking for. Let's just call them steps. Steps to creating a great Instagram post.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Well, the first thing you're gonna figure out is, well, what are best practices? And we're kind of doing this now, and you and I, because we do the storybrand Instagram feed and we're discovering, well, if you're outside, we get more likes. Weird things. If you wear a colorful sweater, you get more likes. Wear a cool hat, you get more likes. If we're driving around in the FJ40, you get more likes if we actually do it. And also if we lead with the problem when I start talking about it, we get more likes if we, you know, all this is best. It's summation of best practices. So we could actually, probably by now we haven't done this, but we could create a framework around Instagram 100%. And by the way, I already created in StoryBrand AI social media post.

[Kyle Reed]

But it's guided by rules, guided by.

[Donald Miller]

Hidden rules that you're not seeing, has to be, you're typing in, what's the problem? What's the thing I want to talk about? And then it gives you the talking points based on rules that you never even read. So it's incorporating frameworks in that way. So I think the first thing is rules and the second is, you know, run those rules past best practices. You know, every recipe is a framework. And by the way, I'm the guy in the kitchen who really goes, can't just be a, I mean, can't you just pinch some salt? Why do you gotta do a teaspoon?

[Kyle Reed]

No, it's gotta be right.

[Donald Miller]

And I've made some really bad meals because I won't follow the framework. And I've learned, just based on my wife's beding of me, I learned to follow frameworks. And so you want to think of it as a recipe, a series of processes and also combined with a visual that helps people understand it. So the mountain is often used, the triangle is often used. You want to find my framework for growing a small business is based on an airplane.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

So you know, the airplane framework, you want a visual that you can walk people through. You know, I've given the storybrand talk now to probably over well over a million people.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And it's a seven part grid that slowly comes to life. It's a TED Talk now by the way. You can go listen to it. Just Donald Miller's story, Brand Ted talk. And in 20 minutes I go through a grid that is the framework that I created that has highs and lows and it visually help people understand the seven steps.

[Kyle Reed]

Yep.

[Donald Miller]

To you know, clarifying your message.

[Kyle Reed]

Man, there's so much already like why frameworks work.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

It, it makes a lot.

[Donald Miller]

You're going to see them everywhere you are if you watch the news tonight. It's a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

If you read it, you know, there, there, there are, there's an order of the way things are done and even the way that copy is written is a framework inside of a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yep. And to think that you're just showing up and they're just winging. There's no way.

[Donald Miller]

No way.

[Kyle Reed]

Which is why I love like, you know, I think Pressfield talks about just showing up and writing and like sitting down and spending an hour.

[Donald Miller]

Which by the way, the war of art is a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, that's right.

[Donald Miller]

Right. I mean he, that, that book, the brilliance of that Book is he really created a framework on the psychological war it is to create art.

[Kyle Reed]

There's something, I think, in our brains thinking, it can't. It's not easy, but it can't be that easy that we just. If I follow this and show up and put in my uniqueness to this, it can work.

[Donald Miller]

Yep.

[Kyle Reed]

I can make a business off of this.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, man, there are so many people listening to this. You know, if you can teach a dog not to bark when somebody knocks at the door, but you don't want to just say, I teach the dog not to bark. I teach them the stop barking framework. Or I teach you to teach your dog. And as soon as you say the stop barking framework, you're worth about 10 times more than just, I have this magical ability that you cannot. You know, we should talk about that. Kyle. The reason frameworks are so important for thought leaders is other people can teach them.

[Kyle Reed]

That's right.

[Donald Miller]

If I create a framework, other people. We have I don't know how many private workshop people who go out and teach story brand.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

And we have a thousand coaches now who teach either story brand or the small business framework. And so that was another reason that I started creating frameworks, is I want to stay married. It's like if I'm on the road all the time, teaching these things, winging it, sharing my wisdom, I can't be married because my wife won't stay married to me because I'm never home. So now I've got other people out there, an army of people actually doing that. And it's fantastic. And they're loving it, too.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're helping them make money and they're helping their clients make money. Yeah, yeah. I've defined goals this way, but I think frameworks work this way as well as if, you know, you imagine you get on a highway and if there are no lanes, there are no guardrails.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, man, that's a great analogy.

[Kyle Reed]

There's no structure.

[Donald Miller]

We've probably all been in countries that are like that. It's absolutely insane.

[Kyle Reed]

Once you know the rules of the road with our analogy here, then you can go, okay, I know where to go. I know how to get where I'm going. And now I can work backwards to get there. I think a framework is very similar.

[Donald Miller]

What a fricking valuable episode.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, this is.

[Donald Miller]

It's been valuable for me.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, it's been valuable.

[Donald Miller]

Makes you want to go create more frameworks.

[Kyle Reed]

I think a couple takeaways is. First off, look at all the frameworks around you.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, Notice.

[Kyle Reed]

But I really think that everybody listening to this has some unique thing they figured out that they know. And one of the things that could be holding them back is they just have not put it in a framework yet. And I know. I think the artist in a lot of us goes, it can't. No, that's not how it really works. Yeah, but it's true. It really is true that if you can step back and go through those three things you talked about of creating a framework and try it with a friend, just walk them through your framework of how they, you know, how you get your kids fed in the morning or how you make your coffee or something, just to see, you know, what the framework is that you uniquely show up with.

[Donald Miller]

The great thing about frameworks is they batch your thinking to leave more cognitive real estate, if you will. Cognitive bandwidth, cognitive ability to solve other problems. That's why Hal Elrod's Miracle Morning is such a fantastic book. Just get your morning down. Get the things that you need to get done down, down. That's why my R1, R2, R3. I never walk into my garage gym, which is a cheap garage gym, wondering what I'm going to do. I don't have to think about it. I don't have to go, well, okay, did I work on abs that, you.

[Kyle Reed]

Know, what's holding me back from working out is I don't have that structure.

[Donald Miller]

I'll send it to you, but I don't.

[Kyle Reed]

Thank you. I don't have a framework that I follow because it's not a part of my routine.

[Donald Miller]

And there's. There's not rules.

[Kyle Reed]

There's not rules.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Rules are every day of 2025, there's a workout.

[Kyle Reed]

That's right.

[Donald Miller]

You know, there's a workout.

[Kyle Reed]

Don, this has been. I'm. I'm having a lot of fun on this episode. I assume you are. I think people listening to this are already taking a ton of value. This podcast is coming out and you're in the midst of releasing a brand new book. Yeah, tell me about that.

[Donald Miller]

Well, sort of brand new. It's building a story. Brand 2.0. I added about 10,000 words. Mostly stories of success, stories of things that have happened when people applied these principles that we didn't have before. You know, so there's a lot of really interesting stories about how people. And it just helps people put sort of skin on how this framework can help you clarify a message and really understand it a little bit better. And then we added StoryBrand AI, which is the sponsor of this podcast. So there's a free tool that the book refers to storybrand AI for you to create your brand script and your, I think tagline. There's a free tagline generated.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. StoryBrand AI. Go there, check that out and also.

[Donald Miller]

Grab the book Building a Storybrand 2.0. Grab it on Audible. There's also. We forgot to mention this, talk about this Pete and Joe. There's a thing that we created called StoryBrand Radio Theater Presents Pete and Joe Save Their mother's Company. We actually wrote a radio play, a radio drama about two kind of absent minded brothers who shouldn't be running a company. But you can get that on Audible.

[Kyle Reed]

We could probably spend another hour talking about how you came up with that idea. I love it's such a creative thing.

[Donald Miller]

We hired actors.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. It was some of the most fun I've had working here was working on that radio drama. That was a blast. So I'm really excited for people to hear that.

[Donald Miller]

So radio story Bend Radio Theater presents Pete and Joe Save Their mother's Company.

[Kyle Reed]

Check that out on Audible YouTube. Go get a the new version of Building Storybrand. Check out Storybrand AI. And most importantly, come back next week.

[Donald Miller]

Come back because we're gonna talk about TikTok. You know, I didn't wanna do TikTok because I don't use TikTok and I don't know anything about it, but I've already started deep diving into it. Holy rats.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, there's a lot.

[Bobby Richards]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcast. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.