Why That Worked #14: Simplicity—Why a “Less Is More” Approach Can Make Anything More Effective

Summary

Marketing Made Simple
Episode: Why That Worked #14: Simplicity—Why a “Less Is More” Approach Can Make Anything More Effective
Release Date: April 9, 2025

In this compelling episode of Marketing Made Simple, host Bobby Richards delves into the transformative power of simplicity in marketing. Titled "Why That Worked #14: Simplicity—Why a 'Less Is More' Approach Can Make Anything More Effective," the episode serves as a comprehensive recap, weaving together invaluable insights from previous episodes to underscore how simplifying strategies can lead to heightened effectiveness in business and communication.

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1. The Power of Frameworks

Timestamp: [02:31]
Donald Miller and Kyle Reed open the discussion by emphasizing the significance of frameworks in creating clarity and reducing decision fatigue. They illustrate how structured approaches underpin successful systems, stories, and business strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: "Frameworks have really guided my entire life and benefited me." [02:31]
• Kyle Reed: "If you don't surround it with a framework, it's not, I can't, I'm not going to be successful." [03:10]

The conversation highlights that frameworks act as "cheat codes" for the brain, conserving mental energy by providing clear, repeatable steps to achieve desired outcomes.

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2. Proven Story Structures in Business and Media

Timestamp: [05:42] – [09:06]
Miller and Reed analyze the success of narratives in both cinema and business, using "Top Gun Maverick" and "Toy Story 2" as prime examples of adhering to time-tested story formulas.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: "These formulas exist because they work." [05:56]
• Kyle Reed: "They follow every beat and pretty much don't add anything else." [08:13]

By following Blake Snyder's "Save the Cat" beat sheet, these movies exemplify how structured storytelling resonates with audiences, making narratives more engaging and impactful. This adherence to formulaic structures ensures that stories are not only compelling but also easily relatable and memorable.

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3. Clarity in Thought Leadership

Timestamp: [09:39] – [14:20]
The episode transitions to a discussion on what it takes to be a thought leader. Miller outlines a three-part framework for establishing thought leadership: defining a villain, casting a vision to overcome it, and articulating the values that drive this vision.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: "Step one, it's a three part step and you need to define a villain, cast a vision that defeats that villain..." [10:12]
• Kyle Reed: "We've kind of defined what a thought leader is, hopefully." [13:58]

Miller stresses the importance of clarity in communication, advocating for original content that aligns with one's expertise and vision. By maintaining a focused and structured approach, individuals can effectively influence and engage their audiences.

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4. Storytelling in Sports: NFL's Success through Simple, Proven Formulas

Timestamp: [15:04] – [25:15]
Joined by special guest Will Guidera, Miller and Reed explore how the NFL's success is rooted in its ability to craft compelling, straightforward narratives within each game. They compare this to the intricate storytelling found in movies, noting that each play in football serves as a micro-story with its own stakes and resolutions.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: "Every down is a drama... it's using plots, subplots, open story loops, closing story loops." [18:10]
• Will Guidera: "I think football works because it's community and tradition." [21:15]

The discussion extends to a debate on whether college football or the NFL offers a better experience, ultimately highlighting how consistent, simple storytelling keeps audiences deeply engaged and fosters strong community ties.

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5. Simplifying the Customer Experience: Amazon's Success

Timestamp: [28:19] – [31:29]
Miller delves into how Amazon has become a global powerhouse by prioritizing simplicity in the buying process. He credits Jeff Bezos's focus on ease of use and competitive pricing as pivotal factors in Amazon's dominance.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: "The second thing is the price was lower, so I could buy it and the price would actually be lower." [28:19]
• Donald Miller: "Jeff Bezos has made it so that you have to make it so ridiculously easy." [30:57]

By minimizing friction points—such as reducing the number of clicks required to complete a purchase—Amazon has streamlined the customer journey, making it effortless for consumers to say "yes." This approach not only enhances user experience but also drives significant business growth.

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6. The Power of Stories: Why They Work

Timestamp: [31:29] – [33:26]
In the concluding segment, Miller and Reed discuss the intrinsic power of storytelling. They reference Robert McKee's insights, explaining that stories offer connection, neuro mirroring, and survival mechanisms by helping individuals make sense of the world and establish their place within it.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: "Stories comfort us and prepare us." [33:14]
• Kyle Reed: "It helps us make sense of the world." [33:17]

Stories, when framed simply and clearly, do more than just entertain—they provide mental maps that guide behavior and foster a sense of belonging. This foundational role of storytelling underscores its critical importance in effective marketing and communication.

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Conclusion: Embracing Simplicity for Effective Marketing

Throughout this episode, Marketing Made Simple reinforces the idea that simplicity is not merely a stylistic choice but a strategic imperative. Whether it's through structured frameworks, clear storytelling, or user-friendly customer experiences, reducing complexity can lead to more effective and impactful marketing efforts. By adopting a "less is more" mindset, businesses can enhance clarity, foster stronger connections, and ultimately drive greater success.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Frameworks simplify decision-making and enhance clarity, serving as foundational tools in both personal and professional contexts.
• Proven story structures in media and business ensure narratives resonate deeply with audiences, making them more engaging and memorable.
• Clear communication is essential for thought leadership, requiring a focused and structured approach to influence and inspire.
• Consistent storytelling in sports, particularly in the NFL, demonstrates the power of simple, repeatable narratives in maintaining audience engagement and building community.
• Simplifying the customer experience, as exemplified by Amazon, can significantly boost business growth by removing friction and enhancing ease of use.
• Storytelling is intrinsically linked to human survival and connection, providing mental maps that help individuals navigate and understand their world.

By integrating these principles, marketers and business leaders can harness the power of simplicity to create more effective and lasting impacts.

Transcript

[Bobby Richards]

Hey, hero makers, it's podcast producer Bobby Richards. I'm jumping in to share with you a new episode of our brand new podcast, why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI with Donald Miller back in the host seat. Now, since we launched Marketing Made simple, we've been so grateful to have everybody tune in each week to learn how to make your marketing easy and make it work. Which is exactly why we're sharing new episodes of the why that Worked podcast here. In the old Marketing Made simple feedback, but only for a limited time. Each episode of the new show is gonna deliver actionable insights and key takeaways that are all designed so you can implement them to help make whatever you're working on work. Now, here's the deal. Like I said, this is only for a limited time. If you wanna catch new episodes early, you can watch or listen every Monday. To watch the show, just go subscribe to the StoryBrand YouTube channel. And to listen, go follow why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI wherever you enjoy your podcasts. All right, that's it for me. So grateful you're here. And enjoy this week's episode of why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI. You're listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week, we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed. Actually, it's podcast producer Bobby Richards, and I am excited to be back with you. Now, today's episode of the podcast is a little bit different. We're going to be doing a recap. We're pulling together some incredibly valuable insights from past conversations with Don and Kyle. Now, if you're listening to this show in real time, Q1 is in the rearview mirror and we're heading into Q2. We're passing that first checkpoint of the year. The ball is rolling. We've got momentum. But with that momentum, it's easy to overcomplicate things without even realizing it. That's why in this show, we're going to be revisiting some key moments where we talked about the power of keeping it simple. Because when you keep things clear and focused, your business grows faster and your message lands stronger. Now, in our first clip today from episode one, Don and Kyle dig into how frameworks create clarity and remove decision fatigue. Whether you realize it or not, every great system Every great story, every great business strategy follows a structure. It follows a framework. Listen in as the guys break down why that matters.

[Donald Miller]

You know, I went from using frameworks, discovering frameworks, being indoctrinated in frameworks, using them to write better, and then ultimately creating one and frame. You know, I never even knew it, but frameworks have really guided my entire life and benefited me.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, I, I, that clicked for me. I was talking to a friend not too long ago. He jumping into executive coaching. Super sharp guy. I think at one point he was lamenting to me a little bit of like, why am I not getting more clients? Or like, what's going on here?

[Donald Miller]

Well, he needs a framework on how to get clients. Framework.

[Kyle Reed]

I said the thing that. Yeah, you're doing it there.

[Donald Miller]

So step one, create a lead generator. Step two, qualify those leads.

[Kyle Reed]

And it just hit me in the moment I was talking to him, and I think you've rubbed off on me so much, but I just said, what's your framework like? You have no, you're talking. You want people to hire you. You have no process. I can't define what you're doing. And I think that was the light bulb moment for him and for me in that moment of going, oh, if I want to grow this or if I want to be successful in this area, if I don't surround it with a framework, it's not, I can't, I'm not going to be successful. So even to your analogy about exercising, it's almost like you've taken the thought out of the actual process because you've defined, I'm just going to follow these steps. It's going to get me to where I want to go.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And that's a very interesting point, Kyle, because I'm convinced that the brain looks to. The brain is always looking for cheat codes.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

Remember that game Chutes and Ladders?

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Where you could actually take like a chute and skip like 30 paces.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. My girls love doing that. Candy Land. They're always hoping if they hit the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

That's a framework. When you hit that weight loss framework, you're skipping a bunch of steps and you're making everything easier. The human brain's attraction to frameworks is actually that it saves them mental calories. The brain burns between 6 and 800 calories a day, about 20% of the calories you burn, depending on your weight. And all that kind of stuff is burned by your brain. And it's also always trying not to burn those calories because it's Trying to conserve them in case you need cognitive resources later in the day. So it's always trying. It's actually weirdly trying not to think.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And so when you actually say, you know, here's a great way to lose weight, it's 90 days, you're going to do this, what you're saying is you don't have to actually think about any of this. You don't have to make decisions, you don't have to do the research. Just do what I tell you to do in this order. And at the end of it, according to television, they look pretty good.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So they also work 100%. You're right. I think that's so fascinating because I don't. I think a lot of us are walking around, we don't realize that that is what we are doing. We are looking. You know, one of the things.

[Donald Miller]

Listen, you driving to work today, you drove on a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

The road is a framework.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. I didn't really kind of pay attention. It just guided me along.

[Bobby Richards]

Up next, in this clip from episode two, Don and Kyle uncover why the most successful stories businesses, even day to day decisions, follow a proven structure. Whether it's a blockbuster film or a business framework, the right formula helps people understand and take action. F. Now, if you're a fan of Top Maverick, you're gonna love this one because Don uses it as an example of a movie that follows a perfect story formula.

[Donald Miller]

Why do you think the movie succeeded?

[Kyle Reed]

It's the classics of the hero's journey. I mean, it's the, it's the formula. It follows everything. And here's the thing, as cheesy as we sit here and talk about that, we love it, we love it. I love it.

[Donald Miller]

These formulas exist because they work. And so when we talk about formulas, if you've been around me long enough, you've probably heard me talk about Blake Snyder's book, Save the Cat. And Save the Cat is a book that is the most influential book in Hollywood. It's about a 20 year old book, I think. And probably every single person who writes a movie or group of people who writes a movie that gets produced has read and been largely influenced by that book. And that book is the formula for how to write a movie. Now you can actually tell how close somebody gets to the formula and whether or not they're taking sort of creative liberties. And some people can take creative liberties and it's really great. But the formula is basically there. And I would say I've never seen a movie except for Toy Story 2 that was more on point with Blake Snyder's. It's called a beat sheet, okay? And Toy Story 2 is one of the. Is one of the greatest movies ever, greatest screenplays ever created. And so these stories are all sort of like metaphors and myths around, you know, what Joseph Campbell would call the hero's journey or pathways to bliss. What Blake Snyder did was he actually said, okay, I'm not a philosopher, but let me tell you what to do if you really want to write a great movie. The first thing that has to happen is this. And then the second thing that happens has to happen is, is this. And literally, like if you go through the beat sheet for Blake Snyder's Save the Cat, which is the book, it is things like. Let me, let me. It is things like. Opening image, right? Theme stated. The setup, the catalyst, the debate, the break into Act 2. The B story is introduced. Then there's a scene of like fun and games. And then there's the midpoint, which is the midpoint climax. Then the bad guys close in, then everything is lost. And then there's a dark night of the soul and a great reckoning. And that breaks into Action three in which you have the finale and the final image. Yep. Toy Story 2 and Top Gun Maverick use every frickin beat and pretty much don't add anything else.

[Kyle Reed]

And what's amazing is as you're reading every beat point, you could picture it in your head. I've seen scenes in my head. Here comes Tom Cruise, you know, on the plane. Opening image.

[Donald Miller]

Maverick works as a test pilot, pushing the limits of experiment. That's the open. Now we know who that dude is. Then there's a theme stated. The importance of teamwork is the theme of the movie. And so the. If we don't come together as a team, it's not going to work. And so of course, what has to happen, all this energy that tries to disrupt the team.

[Kyle Reed]

The drama of the team.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, exactly. And then there's the setup. We see Maverick's current life and his reluctance to advance in rank due to his rebellious nature. So there's all this antagonism working internally against the characters and against the team itself. And then the catalyst, which is the inciting incident where you throw the hero into the deep end. He's sent to Top Gun school to actually be an instructor where he's got all this bad blood, right?

[Kyle Reed]

And then the nostalgia back to Goose and his son. And just.

[Donald Miller]

All right, so we agree on the fact that one of the reasons this thing made $1.3 billion is. It is a formula that works.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Bobby Richards]

Moving along, in this next clip from episode three, Don and Kyle dig into what it really takes to be a thought leader. And spoiler alert. It's not just about having smart ideas. It's about. It's about knowing how to communicate them with clarity. The more complex something is, the harder it is for people to understand. If you confuse, you lose. You've heard us say that before. This is why keeping things simple isn't just helpful. It's essential for influence. Listen in. As Don and Kyle break down, why clarity makes all the difference.

[Donald Miller]

Simplicity. We want somebody to simplify a complex idea, and we don't have time to research it and do it ourselves. Yeah, yeah, we're not. I'm not going to sit there and figure out, you know, atoms and cells in my body and, you know, deteriorating, whatever over time. Peter T. Is going to do that for me.

[Kyle Reed]

And so someone listening to this, including myself, I'm sitting here wondering, how could I ever become a thought leader?

[Donald Miller]

Do you want to be one?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. And what. I mean, why not? Why not? Yeah. But I don't. But now that we're talking about this, I'm wondering what are the steps that I or someone listening to this would even take, and is it possible now to become a thought leader?

[Donald Miller]

I think we would all have to agree that some people have a proclivity to become a thought leader more than others. They're just originators of ideas. I'll tell you who's a thought leader, and a lot of people don't think of us as a thought leader is Elon Musk. Elon Musk is actually a thought leader in. Especially in the areas of how. In the area of how to run really big organizations. Yeah, I have issues with him being involved in our government in some ways because there are so many freaking government contracts that he has. It's kind of a dumb idea to put him in charge. And yet I'm like, but if we can get some of that, how to fricking do this thing better than NASA ever did it. I'd like that. And cheaper, with less people and less idiocracy that we have. Or idiocy, I should say. Idiocracy is, by the way, great movie. It's a thought leader movie if there ever was one. But I think Elon Musk is that way. So I think that, first of all, I think certain people have a proclivity to do it. I think if you wanted to become a thought leader, here's Step one, it's a three part step and you need to define a villain, cast a vision that defeats that villain or usurps that paradigm in culture, and then actually define the values that will make that vision happen. The sort of people we need to be in order to embody those values. So a villain, a vision and values just happens to be three V's. But I think once you establish that, you would want to establish expertise in that area. You really want to dive deep into the villain, the vision, especially the vision. Don't spend too much time on the villain and the values that it would take for us to accomplish that vision. And then you got to start creating original content around that and start sharing that. Now a lot of people think, you know, in order to be a thought leader, I need to go on YouTube and start saying smart things. Yes, but smart things about why this villain is no good, why this vision is where we need to head and why these values are what's going to get us there. And then stay in your lane as long as you possibly can and go deep into that expertise. Whether it's like why the stock market doesn't work or why we should be supporting Ukraine, or why globalization is a bad idea, which by the way, I don't think it is why the US military should not be policing our shipping channels, which, by the way, they should. You gotta come up with your area of the world and please, mine is. Mine is. I'm an enneagram3. I'm a high D on the disc test. It's success. It's not just marketing and messaging, clarification of messaging. That's what I'm for, why people succeed. Which is why I love this podcast. You know, I'd love to go deep in, but I'm really more of a curator. Right, but there's a vision there and we're establishing values. And then I think you have to stay committed to long term learning about that for a really long time. The mistakes that you can make are, one, you're not an expert, you're a fake. Right. You're just curating information, repeating other people's ideas and trying to sound smart. You haven't identified a vision for the world. Your vision is you being smart. That's a joke. And we don't need you. There's no core values that are building toward your vision or you're not disciplined getting up every day and doing some writing and some content on this thing. That's kind of how somebody would need to become a thought leader. It's Hard to imagine anybody doing that strategically rather than just intuitively.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, this has always been a premise of yours, is there's something that each person in this world knows more than.

[Donald Miller]

Someone else or has a proclivity to try to understand.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes. And if they can just put it into some sort of framework or structure, they can teach that they can teach. And that's the biggest thing I'm walking away with is a. We've kind of defined what a thought leader is, hopefully. Yeah, I think we have. And then also we're seeing like, okay, how do you curate those thoughts and how do you grab that and then teach that? And then there's a way, if you want to go out and start to share that these are the things to follow.

[Bobby Richards]

All right. Up next is a clip from episode four where Don and Kyle are joined by special guest Will Guidera, author of the bestseller Unreasonable Hospitality and co founder of eleven Madison park, which held the title for being the number one restaurant in the world. Now the guys break down how the NFL's success comes from following a simple, proven formula where every game, every play has heroes, villains and stakes. This classic story arc is what keeps fans invested. And here's what this means for you. If you can strip your message down to a clear, compelling story, you're going to keep your audience engaged and you're going to make your brand unforgettable.

[Donald Miller]

Well, let me tell you my theory on why it works, and it's because it's got the best story structure of any sport. And what I mean by that is there are plots and subplots, right? So there's the main plot of who's gonna win this game. And then you have villains and you have good guys, and it's all contextual on where you're from and what your team is. And then there are even worse villains than other villains, right? There's your arch rival, there's your, you know, your conference rivals, there's all of that. Then you've got the main plot, who's going to win the game. And then inside of that, you actually have every drive as a story. So there's a plot, which is the game. And then every single drive is, are they going to get to the end zone? So that's one drive.

[Will Guidera]

There's like micro stakes, and then every.

[Donald Miller]

Play is a story. Are they going to make, you know, they're going to get a few yards? Are they going to get 20 yards and get 30 yards? Are they going to lose a few yards? Are they going to get sacked? Is There going to be a turnover. There are story questions and open story loops, multiple ones every minute of this game. Now, here's the thing that's different than basketball and hockey and all that stuff. The story starts and ends. So the story is over at the end of the play and now we start another story and it's the next play and it starts and it ends. So there are little breaks between plots and subplots, and they're really not in basketball. It's not like you drive down, you miss the shot. All right, stop the game. All right, now let's start over.

[Will Guidera]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

So each down is a drama. Then there are players, storylines, There are strategic battles in terms of how are they going to handle the run. This is a running team, how's the defense going to handle that, all that kind of stuff. There are momentum shifts.

[Will Guidera]

Well, I want to pause on the thing you said about the smaller stories with breaks in between. Yeah, because, I mean, listen, one of the reasons why I think most sports work to some extent or another is the idea that you can watch television, which is how we mostly consume these things. It's a better way to consume it, honestly, in community. So when I watch a TV show or a movie with you, we're basically as two people sitting next to each other in silence, staring at a screen for however long. When you're watching sports with people, you are in community, you are building relationships while you have this thing to facilitate building relationships.

[Donald Miller]

That's going relationship to a theater with your buddies and they pause the movie every 60 seconds so you can talk about it. Right. That's the amazing. It's accidental. I'm not saying they strategically created it this way, but that is why this thing is so much more powerful than Hollywood.

[Will Guidera]

But that's why I think sports on TV work generally. The reason why I love what you said about football is because it gives you the ability to engage with the people around you and not fall out of the thing you're watching. It's almost like built in conversation breaks. Whereas if I start talking to you during a basketball game, we might miss something dramatic. Whereas football's like, you can stop, talk to your buddy for a second. Oh, okay. Now it's time to watch again and.

[Donald Miller]

Think about like the adrenaline and the urgency and the intrigue of like, we just lost two yards, so now it's third and five.

[Will Guidera]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

Right. And you're just going, are they going to be able to make this up with what's probably going to be a pass play? Right. Are they going to Be that story. And now I'm glued to the TV to find out. It's using plots, subplots, open story loops, closing story loops. Better than any Hollywood script.

[Bobby Richards]

And it's real.

[Donald Miller]

It's like it's actually real. That's what's fascinating. I mean, you know, we talk about community building. Every year I've got a group of fishing buddies, we call ourselves the Lions. We go fishing in the summer and then in the winter, all of them fly to my house. My wife leaves. We use every bed in the house. I get a 200 inch screen and rear project the national championship. We'll have three TVs going. We hire a chef, there's enormous amounts of booze. We're there for three days. And that's how it ends. It ends with that game. And it's all about watching that game. And this year, Oregon Ducks, hopefully, by God, hopefully, they'll be in it.

[Will Guidera]

The one other thing not to.

[Donald Miller]

By the way, by the time this airs, people will know. They'll know they were in it. Yeah.

[Will Guidera]

Every time you watch pretty much every other sport, maybe over the course of the entire game, there's like one or two moments where you're like, gosh, this is a big moment. You could say that 20 times throughout a football game. Like every time they're fourth and one and they decide to go for it, you're like, this is it. The entire game is like, this is. And you know that's not true. Yeah, but there's all these moments where the pressure seems so much more intense than it actually is.

[Kyle Reed]

It's like the kicker who misses the field in the first quarter. You know, that story's already developed because you know those three points are going to come back to haunt them later. Yeah, they missed the extra point. That one point going to hurt later.

[Donald Miller]

You guys ever thought about football and all sports, in some ways, especially college football, as proxy wars, that if basically if. If these teams didn't play each other, Alabama would go to war against Texas?

[Will Guidera]

Like this is. This is the pressure release valve.

[Donald Miller]

That's exactly. I uphold that theory and believe there's truth to it.

[Kyle Reed]

The hatred could run that deep.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, I mean, well, just, is it a coincidence that there's not been another civil war since the NFL?

[Kyle Reed]

So you would say it's football. Thank you. Football.

[Will Guidera]

That causation and correlation.

[Donald Miller]

I'm actually curious. I mean, I do believe that we have tribal identities. We need to work out our who's better, who's dominant. You know, is it Alabama? And inside of Alabama, by the way, is it Auburn or Alabama?

[Kyle Reed]

Big deal.

[Donald Miller]

Right. Or is it Alabama or Georgia? Is it Georgia or Texas? Right. I mean, I think there's. I think these are actually proxy wars.

[Kyle Reed]

That was one of the things I wrote down, which existed forever. Why I think football works is community and tradition. So you.

[Donald Miller]

So it's very sweet of you, Will.

[Kyle Reed]

You were interesting because you are a newer fan. You know, you picked it up. You didn't grow up above. There's no story about getting a sweater when you were a kid.

[Will Guidera]

No.

[Kyle Reed]

But there are people out there who have been lifelong Packer fans or lifelong Michigan.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. It's part of their family.

[Kyle Reed]

Those are the people who, when they go to Thanksgiving gatherings, that's all they have to talk about with their. With their siblings. Maybe some people like that. Right. That is a big deal. The day after Thanksgiving or that Saturday after Thanksgiving, we watch Michigan, Ohio State. Because it's Saturday after every Thanksgiving. Right. So I think football works because it's. It's one of the main sports that as you grow up as a kid, you're indoctrinated into. Like, that's my team. Most families, it's a connecting.

[Donald Miller]

It's a thing that connects us. It's a shared experience, shared loyalty.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely. And you grow up that way, you don't really stray too far from the family. Like, if you grow up, this is my team. You know, my dad liked that team.

[Donald Miller]

I married a New Orleans girl who comes from the. Just the most wonderful family, maybe the most wonderful family I've ever. So let me throw them under the bus. We. I go to. I go to New Orleans. I'm getting.

[Will Guidera]

That being said, that being said, I'm a Seahawks fan.

[Donald Miller]

I'm living in Portland, she's in D.C. then I start meeting her family, you know, go. Go to Thanksgiving, all this stuff, and it comes out and they are die hard, die hard Saints fans. And I'm always giving them, you know, shit. We get married on a Saturday, on a Sunday. We fly to Seattle on the way to Hawaii for our honeymoon. We stay for Monday Night Football, which is New Orleans versus Seattle. And I mean, I'm talking crap to these guys, all her brothers and stuff like that the whole time. I happened to interview Pete Carroll, I think, the year before, and so he invited me on the field. So I've got my new wife. We go to Canlas the night before. We got my wife, my only wife, not my new wife, my only wife on the field, texting with her, all this kind of stuff. And I'm sitting there in the stands going, if we don't win this game, they are effectively not giving me their daughter. Like they're like this. They still have. They still have. And we won the game. And emotionally it felt like she's mine now. She's a huge Saints fan. She's making my daughter.

[Kyle Reed]

I was something about your masculinity on.

[Donald Miller]

The line in that game and thank God we won that.

[Kyle Reed]

What a way to start a marriage.

[Bobby Richards]

If you don't communicate clearly, all your emails, your website, social media posts, everything you're communicating will be ignored. Storybrand AI is like the world's best communication expert writing it for you. Imagine having the world's best communicator writing your tagline. Just type in the name of your company, answer a few prompts and voila. Hey, that's a good one. Use it to write your social media posts, website, wireframe emails, lead generating PDF, product or service descriptions, anything you need for your business. What would happen to your revenue if every word that left your business was crystal clear and worth paying attention to? StoryBrand AI is your competitor competitive advantage. So you'll know you'll say it clearly. Try it right now and let us write your custom tagline for free at storybrand AI. And now back to the show. Now, we just talked about how the NFL success comes from following a simple, proven formula. But when it comes to football, not everyone's going to agree on what version is the best. In this next clip, Don and special guest Will Guidera go head to head on whether college football or the NFL delivers the best experience. But this isn't just a sports debate. It's actually a masterclass in what keeps audiences engaged. As the guys break down what makes each one work, think about how you can apply the same principles to hold your customers attention and build brand loyalty.

[Donald Miller]

By the way, I will submit that college football is actually more entertaining than the NFL.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, I think you're crazy, but that's really. Yeah, I watch college football. I love the NFL.

[Donald Miller]

So many more dynamics. Rivalries are so much more heated. So can I like you could say the Falcons are playing their arch rivals to whatever. And I'm like, I didn't know they were rivals. Auburn plays Alabama, Michigan plays Ohio State. Come on.

[Will Guidera]

Well, listen people, the reason I disagree with you is my number one reason that football, and in this case the NFL works so well. I believe people inherently are bored. We need things to look forward to, but we want to get really excited about things that we can fully commit to and fully understand the NFL gives you so much and not too much. College football fans, in my experience, are more rabid than NFL fans, but there are fewer of them because there's just more that you need to understand.

[Donald Miller]

May I contend with that point?

[Will Guidera]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

The Horseshoe, over 100,000 people in the stands. Michigan, over 100,000 people in the stands. Texas A and M. Kyle Field. Over 100,000 people in the stands. Find me an NFL stadium that has anything. No, no, no.

[Will Guidera]

But these. There's like specific parts of America where that is the case. You go anywhere in America and you're gonna meet a lot of NFL fans. The college football thing is more regionally focused.

[Donald Miller]

The only argument I would give you there is every college football in New.

[Will Guidera]

York City really cares about college football. Unless you came from one of those places.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, New York City is a bastion of normalcy, I think. I think. Yeah, I think the voters just voted on that.

[Will Guidera]

Are we doing this? Let's go.

[Donald Miller]

I will say this. Every college football player's dream is to win a Super Bowl.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, that's true.

[Donald Miller]

So it is the pinnacle.

[Will Guidera]

No, but I'm just saying I think you need to be more into football to love college football than you need to be into football to love the NFL.

[Donald Miller]

That's probably true.

[Will Guidera]

I think that's.

[Donald Miller]

Kyle, what's your.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, to piggyback a little bit off wills, I think football encapsulates all the things. It's got a great storyline, it's tons of great. There's a rhythm to. It's weekly. I don't have to watch every game to understand what's going on. I can tune in on Sunday. I know the players. So that's my difference in like NFL versus college, it's hard to keep up with unless you're just a die hard Tennessee fan, you do not know who their quarterback is. But for the NFL, I know pretty much every player in the major positions so I can connect there.

[Bobby Richards]

Up next, we've got a clip from episode eight where Don breaks down how Amazon became a global powerhouse by simplifying the buying process. The easier you make it for your customers to say yes, the faster your business will grow. Listen in and start considering how you can simplify your own customer experience.

[Donald Miller]

I would say the number one reason is actually they've made buying easy now. They had to come up, they had to do. There had to be an experiential learning curve from the end user and the big knock on Amazon for me personally, early on I lived in Portland, Oregon and Amazon was up the road in Seattle. And the big. When they were just a bookstore, the big knock was, I can't have it now. And that was now nobody even thinks about that. But I can't have it right now. I can't get that book right now. And that began to change when I would go down to Powell's, the largest used bookstore. The second biggest bookstore in the world was Powell's. Probably still is. Well, no, they're the biggest independent bookstore. But Powell's, which was heaven for me, I've spent several thousand hours in Powell's books, reading books and drinking coffee was when I would go down there, and it wasn't there. The book that I wanted wasn't there. And then I had to order it on Amazon. And that's how they got me used to ordering it. Because now, well, Powell's probably has it, but Amazon definitely has it. And then the second thing that Jeff Bezos would say one is, ease of use. They've just made it incredibly easy to buy something. The second thing is the price was lower, so I could buy it and the price would actually be lower. And those two things set them up to succeed. And I get into this a lot when I'm doing strategic consulting with businesses of, why do I have to click this and then this to buy this? Because you're gonna get beat by somebody who doesn't make people click twice. And they're like, really? Do you really think, yes. Somebody would actually go to somebody else because they have to move their finger twice? Yes, because psychologically they have made it easier. And you have now. Jeff Bezos has made it so that you have to make it so ridiculously easy. Now with prime, you don't even have to think about shipping. And it actually comes to my door. What's interesting is Amazon.com has not only replaced the local grocery store and bookstore and hardware store, they've replaced something even more powerful to replace your to do list. In other words, instead of writing down, I need light bulbs, I just buy them. And it's easier to buy the light bulbs on Amazon than it is to write it on a piece of paper. So I'm guilty of, like Betsy, my beautiful, wonderful wife, batches her orders so that they come once a week so they all come in less boxes. I need to do that. But I haven't. I know.

[Kyle Reed]

What a wonderful day.

[Donald Miller]

What a dream.

[Kyle Reed]

You have to break down as many.

[Donald Miller]

Boxes, and I've not done that yet because I think you have to press three buttons to do it. So I haven't saved the world yet. Because of the three buttons and you know, my finger's a little bit sore.

[Kyle Reed]

Things to do.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, things to do. But I literally will buy light bulbs and then later realize we need cat food and we'll buy cat food separately. And I don't even, I don't even think about it. So I think those are the two, the two big reasons the price was, was better and he just made it easier to get it.

[Bobby Richards]

So far we've seen how keeping things simple helps your business grow, whether it's using or developing frameworks, removing points of friction, or following a clear formula. But the real key to making your message stick Story. In this final clip from episode five, Don breaks down why stories work, which it's something he knows a little bit about, since the foundation of everything we do here at StoryBrand is story. Now, when you frame your business around a simple, clear narrative, your message doesn't just land, it lasts.

[Donald Miller]

To narrow down my position on why stories work, your thesis, they offer three things. Connection, which we talked about. Neuro mirroring. So I'm connected to somebody. They Also and Robert McKee talks about this in his book Story. It explains the world. And what he means by that is when I tell a story, I am giving you my position on what matters, what's worth pursuing, what needs to be avoided, who's bad, who's good. It's a mental map. It explains where I am in this sort of construct of social interaction that we're having in this world. Yes, and all of that is interesting for another reason. It is because knowing where I am on the map and not being alone comforts me. And it does another thing prepares me against a threat. So that is my explanation that I posit to you on why Stories took off. They comfort us and they prepare us. So the underlying issue behind Stories is that it's all connected to my survival. It's going to help me survive.

[Kyle Reed]

And I love what you said. It helps us make sense of the world.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, well, that's Robert McKee says that it's connection sense, making comfort and survive.

[Bobby Richards]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business. Just go to Storybrand. AI, thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.