Why That Worked #2: Top Gun Maverick—The Strategy Behind Its Billion-Dollar Success

Summary

Marketing Made Simple Podcast Summary

Episode: Why That Worked #2: Top Gun Maverick—The Strategy Behind Its Billion-Dollar Success
Release Date: January 15, 2025
Hosts: Donald Miller and Kyle Reed
Presented by: StoryBrand AI

---

1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode delves into the remarkable success of Top Gun Maverick, exploring the strategic elements that propelled the film to a billion-dollar global gross. Hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed analyze both the quantitative success and the qualitative factors contributing to the movie’s popularity.

---

2. Financial Success and Key Statistics

Donald Miller begins by highlighting the staggering financial achievements of Top Gun Maverick:

• Global Earnings: $1.4 billion
• Domestic Earnings (US): Almost $800 million

Timestamp: [02:54]

These figures are especially impressive considering the film released post-COVID-19, a period when theater attendance was still recovering. The strategic timing played a crucial role in maximizing box office returns.

---

3. Tom Cruise's Strategic Choices and Persona

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Tom Cruise's strategic career decisions and his embodiment of his characters.

• Career Strategy: Cruise has consistently chosen roles that maintain his status as a global superstar rather than pursuing critical acclaim.

  Kyle Reed: “He decided he wanted to be and stay a global superstar. He did not want critical acclaim.”
  Timestamp: [07:15]

• Image Control: Cruise's refusal to release Top Gun Maverick on streaming platforms during the pandemic set him apart from industry trends, generating additional buzz and driving theater attendance.

  Donald Miller: “They knew that this is what everybody's doing and we're gonna go this way.”
  Timestamp: [29:33]

• Authenticity and Stunts: Cruise’s dedication to performing his own stunts adds authenticity, enhancing the viewer's experience and solidifying his commitment to his roles.

  Kyle Reed: “Tom Cruise is a person... Ideas don't win. People who spread and believe ideas win.”
  Timestamp: [28:26]

---

4. The Role of Nostalgia in the Movie’s Success

Nostalgia emerges as a pivotal factor in the film's success. The sequel taps into the emotional connections audiences have with the original Top Gun.

• Generational Appeal: The movie brings together multiple generations—those who experienced the original film and newer audiences introduced through Cruise’s enduring appeal.

  Kyle Reed: “It is a nostalgia about an age in which... there were clear good guys and clear bad guys.”
  Timestamp: [25:07]

• Emotional Resonance: Nostalgia enhances the movie-watching experience by evoking positive memories and emotions, making the film more compelling.

  Kyle Reed: “We have the experience where we go back and we watch an old movie that we really loved...”
  Timestamp: [20:40]

---

5. Formulaic Structure and Storytelling

The hosts discuss how Top Gun Maverick adheres to proven storytelling formulas, ensuring broad audience appeal.

• Hero’s Journey: Following Joseph Campbell’s archetype, the film encapsulates the classic hero’s journey, which resonates universally.

  Kyle Reed: “It's like metaphors and myths around what Joseph Campbell would call the hero's journey.”
  Timestamp: [17:21]

• Blake Snyder’s Beat Sheet: The movie meticulously follows the structure outlined in Snyder’s Save the Cat, ensuring each narrative beat aligns with audience expectations.

  Kyle Reed: “Toy Story 2 and Top Gun Maverick use every fricking beat and pretty much don't add anything else.”
  Timestamp: [18:30]

• Predictable Yet Effective: While the structure is formulaic, its execution is flawless, delivering a satisfying and emotionally engaging experience.

  Donald Miller: “These formulas exist because they work... You go through the beat sheet for Blake Snyder's Save the Cat.”
  Timestamp: [18:29]

---

6. Marketing Insights Derived from the Movie’s Success

Drawing parallels between the movie’s strategy and effective marketing practices, the hosts extract actionable insights.

• Understanding and Leveraging Audience Sentiment: By tapping into nostalgia and emotional connections, marketers can create campaigns that resonate deeply with their target audience.

  Kyle Reed: “Show me the person and Tom Cruise is the person.”
  Timestamp: [28:26]

• Differentiation Through Strategic Decisions: Cruise’s choice to prioritize theatrical release over streaming acted as a unique selling proposition, setting the film apart in a saturated market.

  Donald Miller: “They knew that this is what everybody's doing and we're gonna go this way.”
  Timestamp: [29:33]

• Consistency and Authenticity: Maintaining a consistent persona and delivering authentic experiences builds trust and loyalty, essential for long-term success.

  Donald Miller: “He embodied this character... And when I think about Mission Impossible, Top Gun, Jack Reacher, it's kind of the same character.”
  Timestamp: [08:23]

---

7. Conclusion and Final Insights

The episode concludes by reinforcing the importance of strategic decision-making, authentic persona management, and leveraging proven storytelling techniques. Top Gun Maverick serves as a case study in effective marketing and brand management, demonstrating how a blend of nostalgia, formulaic storytelling, and strategic branding can lead to unprecedented success.

Donald Miller: “He was building his career. That I think is part of it.”
Timestamp: [07:32]

Kyle Reed: “There's a person, and that person is obsessive... People who spread and believe ideas win.”
Timestamp: [28:26]

---

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Miller: “He decided he wanted to be and stay a global superstar. He did not want critical acclaim.”
  Timestamp: [07:15]

• Kyle Reed: “Ideas don't win. People who spread and believe ideas win.”
  Timestamp: [28:26]

• Kyle Reed: “Show me the person and Tom Cruise is the person.”
  Timestamp: [28:26]

---

Key Takeaways:

1. Strategic Persona Management: Building and maintaining a consistent and authentic persona can significantly influence a brand’s success.
2. Leveraging Nostalgia: Tapping into the emotional connections of past experiences can enhance audience engagement and loyalty.
3. Adhering to Proven Formulas: Utilizing established storytelling frameworks ensures a broad and satisfying audience experience.
4. Differentiation Through Unique Decisions: Making strategic choices that set a product apart from competitors can drive additional attention and success.

---

For more actionable insights and practical marketing tips, subscribe to the Marketing Made Simple podcast and explore how StoryBrand AI can elevate your business messaging.

Transcript

[Bobby Richards]

Hey, hero makers, it's podcast producer Bobby Richards. I'm jumping in to share with you a new episode of our brand new podcast, why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI with Donald Miller back in the host seat. Now, since we launched Marketing Made simple, we've been so grateful to have everybody tune in each week to learn how to make your marketing easy and make it work. Which is exactly why we're sharing new episodes of the why that Worked podcast here. In the old Marketing Made simple feedback, but only for a limited time. Each episode of the new show is going to deliver actionable insights and key takeaways that are all designed so you can implement them to help make whatever you're working on work. Now, here's the deal. Like I said, this is only for a limited time. If you want to catch new episodes early, you can watch or listen every Monday. To watch the show, just go subscribe to the StoryBrand YouTube channel. And to listen, go follow why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI wherever you enjoy your podcasts. All right, that's it from me. So grateful you're here. And enjoy this week's episode of why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI. You're listening to the why that Work podcast, presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week, we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Donald Miller]

All right, I. I gotta get something out of the way. It's not right that you showed up in a leather jacket.

[Kyle Reed]

I knew you were gonna say that.

[Donald Miller]

To talk about Top Gun, you could.

[Kyle Reed]

It's a leather motorcycle jacket. For those who are not watching us.

[Donald Miller]

On YouTube, you needed to tell me that because I would have done something about that.

[Kyle Reed]

Here's the reality. I bought this jacket. First of all, I've wanted this jacket.

[Donald Miller]

For over a year. I do, too.

[Kyle Reed]

But because we are filming an episode on Top Gun, it gave me the chance to write it off. So that's why I'm wearing this jacket.

[Donald Miller]

Well, we're not here to talk about clothes, though. I know you want to.

[Kyle Reed]

I would rather we should talk about.

[Donald Miller]

Why clothes work, why they work.

[Kyle Reed]

A whole episode on why.

[Donald Miller]

Why people should wear clothes, why human.

[Kyle Reed]

Beings as a species is the only species that wears clothing. I've got serious thoughts on that.

[Donald Miller]

I'm actually not kidding.

[Kyle Reed]

We're gonna do an episode on clothes.

[Donald Miller]

We'll come back to that. But today we're talking about unrelated Top Gun. Maverick.

[Kyle Reed]

Great movie.

[Donald Miller]

Why did it work?

[Kyle Reed]

Well, okay, I gotta say this. I saw it in the theater and I loved it. And my fishing buddies, we call ourselves the Lions. Cause we're dorky. We all go to the Indianapolis 500 that night, we get back to the Airbnb and Top Gun is playing at the local beer and pizza theater. And we just go and we take up the whole front row. Best movie experience of my life with my boys watching Top Gun after the Indianapolis five. Nobody listening to this has had a better experience watching that movie than I did.

[Donald Miller]

The opening scene where he's. But it worked because the movie's awesome. But also, what are the stats on it? The numbers are crazy. Okay, so I was looking this up, the earnings on this movie. It made $1.4 billion globally.

[Kyle Reed]

That's what it cost 10 years ago to build at and T Stadium.

[Donald Miller]

And this movie. Yeah, and this movie made that. It worked domestically. It made almost 800 million dol. Just in the US alone.

[Kyle Reed]

In a time when everybody was afraid to go to theaters.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, it came out in 2022. It was post right on the year after Covid. So, yeah, it was right when people.

[Kyle Reed]

Might have been trickling back into theaters.

[Donald Miller]

Yep. May 6th or May 27th, 2022. So the original came out May 17th, May 16th, 1986.

[Kyle Reed]

How old were you?

[Donald Miller]

I wasn't born yet.

[Kyle Reed]

I was. I. I think I must have been. I graduated high school in 1989 and I was 17 when I graduated. And 17, 16, 15, 14. So I was 14 years old. 14 or 15 years old.

[Donald Miller]

Did you see it in theaters? Do you remember?

[Kyle Reed]

That is so hard to remember. Almost certainly I did because there wasn't any other way to see it. It wasn't on tv. There was no vhs. I don't think back then maybe there was. I've got some notes on why. There's several reasons. I think it succeeded. And some of it bleeds into the first one. Yeah, that was a top five movie of my sort of childhood would have been Top Gun.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And I mean, so statistically it worked. Yeah, but why else did it work, you think?

[Kyle Reed]

I think a couple things. One is like Tom Cruise's strategic choice of roles. Okay. Look back over his films. Risky Business is his breakout. Probably the first film he did. Right. 1983. I can't think of anything before that. The Color of Money, Rain man, born on the 4th of July. Nominated for Academy Award. Jerry Maguire. A little bit more poppy, right? Magnolia, one of the greatest movies ever made by Paul Thomas Anderson.

[Donald Miller]

And I've never seen it.

[Kyle Reed]

You know, it's okay if this podcast episode goes like seven hours. Yeah, I'm watching that movie. You know, this was back in the age when I weighed 350 pounds and I numbed out with candy and movies. And it shaped my brain in order to tell stories not worth, by the way, the heart condition you might end up with. And I'm sitting there, I'm two and a half hours into Magnolia and I have no idea where this movie is going. And I'm about to walk out and something happens in, you know, it's the deus ex machina moment. Late, probably middle of Act 3. Act 3 is typically very short. Something happened that I'm not going to tell you about that made everything in the previous two and a half hours feel absolutely revolutionary and brilliant. But God enters the machine in an otherwise completely non supernatural film and all of a sudden everything is tied together.

[Donald Miller]

All of.

[Kyle Reed]

And I literally sat there thinking, this is probably one of the greatest masterpieces of film that's ever been created.

[Donald Miller]

I've got my homework.

[Kyle Reed]

Anyway, he does that.

[Donald Miller]

I'm gonna go watch that.

[Kyle Reed]

He does Eyes Wide Shut.

[Donald Miller]

I remember that.

[Kyle Reed]

And then he pretty much never does a movie that would get him an Academy Award ever again. What he does is Mission Impossible in 96. Mission Impossible 2 in 2000, the Day After Tomorrow, fantastic movie. 2004, Mission Impossible 3, 2006, Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol 2011, Jack Reacher. He does two of those in 2012 and some other date. Mission Impossible, Rogue Nation, Jack Reacher, never go back. 2016, Mission Impossible, Fallout 2018 Top Gun Maverick Blockbuster. Mission Impossible, Dead Reckoning Part 1. The best one ever, by the way. The first part of a two part series. Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. None of those. None of those. He knew going into it would get him any sort of Academy Award, but he changed his strategy. And I think one of the reasons this film succeeded, you have to go back to the underpinning of the guy who made it happen, which is Tom Cruise. He decided he wanted to be and stay a global superstar. He did not want critical acclaim.

[Donald Miller]

So he. Yeah, that's interesting.

[Kyle Reed]

And so in other words, Top Gun Maverick was a strategic next film to make as a step in maintaining his global superstar. I think that for me that is one of the reasons that you have to go back and say regardless of the film, we can get into the structure of the film and the formula of the Film and all that kind of stuff. It's the dude who decided to make the film and what was going on in his strategic career and the way he was. He was building his career. That I think is part of it.

[Donald Miller]

What's interesting about Tom Cruise is, you know, you see your favorite actors in movies and they're playing a role, and then you see them outside of that role and you go, oh, that's not the same person.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Tom Cruise is one of the few people who. I go, that is who he is. Now, this is.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm very curious about this. Do you believe that or do you believe when the camera stops, he doesn't. He's still playing a role for public.

[Donald Miller]

I think he's obsessive about the role, like how he appears. He is all in. He does all his own stunts. He embodies this character. And when I think about Mission Impossible, Top Gun, Jack Reacher, it's kind of the same character.

[Kyle Reed]

Does he want us to think he's that guy, or do you think he's that guy?

[Donald Miller]

Well, I mean, we could get into that even more.

[Kyle Reed]

I don't think he's become that guy.

[Donald Miller]

Because I think he's. I don't think he knows who he is, but that's a whole. I hope he doesn't hear this, but.

[Kyle Reed]

I kind of agree.

[Donald Miller]

But.

[Kyle Reed]

But I think he knows who he is. But I think he's. He's embraced the idea that quote, unquote, perception is reality.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

As it relates to me interacting with the poet.

[Donald Miller]

Well, and what was interesting about this was at a time when this movie came out in 2022, everybody was going to streaming because everybody was at home. So all the movie theaters are going, okay, what do we do? No one's going to go to a movie theater because of COVID So how do we get all these blockbusters that we're trying to make money off? We got to put these on streaming services. And Tom Cruise refused to do that because. Tom Cruise.

[Kyle Reed]

Which got him a lot of attention.

[Donald Miller]

Movies. Yeah, exactly. And so he held to that.

[Kyle Reed]

He said, would you say that's an accidental differentiator that sort of made him stand out and drove a little more attention?

[Donald Miller]

I think it was brilliant. He held to. But I don't think, you know, you think about. We've talked about this off. Off camera. There are certain people who can get away with that, and Tom Cruise is one who can. But if. If a. Let's say Ryan Reynolds tried to do that. Killer did with Deadpool or something like that. Right. I Don't think it would have worked as well.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, it's also just not him. Yeah, it's what we love about Ryan Reynolds is he's such a badass on screen and such a normal guy who would be your friend. Okay, here's what I'm talking about regarding Tom Cruise. I saw this thing on Instagram or YouTube or whatever where, you know, Tom Cruise is famous for doing his own stunts. So he rides a motorcycle up a ramp and off a 10,000 foot cliff. Obviously not 10,000, like 2,000 foot cliff. Motorcycle's destroyed, parachute opens up, Tom Cruise lands. Of course we, you know, we don't see this in the movie. This is just a film. He turns around, he pulls a walkie talkie out and he says, do you want me to do it again? I think I can open my arms a little wider. And he's walking toward the camera as he does this. I'm like, the dude is filming a movie about the stunt that he does in a movie.

[Donald Miller]

He's still acting. He's still in it. Y.

[Kyle Reed]

He's still acting.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, he's playing a character.

[Kyle Reed]

And I. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's. And you remember the Olympics. Remember the Olympics in Paris at the end. Did you see the closing ceremonies where. Where he, like, comes down in a cable? What is that called? What is that called? It's called repelling. Oh, he repels from the stop. Stop of the stadium. He's playing that character the whole freaking time. You know?

[Donald Miller]

And you know, it's. I'll go down this path here. So last night. Last night, my wife and I took our kids to this movie premiere. And I'm not gonna say what it is because.

[Kyle Reed]

So bad.

[Donald Miller]

No, no, it wasn't bad. But I don't. I don't want these people to hear this. We go to this movie premiere and there is a certain person we know, and they are playing a character. And they are. The character they're playing is true on screen and off screen, but it is a complete. It's fake. And the character they're playing, they've been playing it for 20 years. And that's their differentiator. And one of the things on the way home was, I asked my wife, I said, do you.

[Kyle Reed]

You gotta say more. Are they playing like a cartoon character or are they just like a charismatic version of themselves?

[Donald Miller]

They're playing a character of where they came from. If I give too much away.

[Kyle Reed]

Got it.

[Donald Miller]

You'll know what it is.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay. Got it.

[Donald Miller]

They're playing a character and I go.

[Kyle Reed]

So they're the billionaire who came from nothing, who's still pretending to be the person who came from nothing.

[Donald Miller]

Yes, got it. But it gets to the point where you go, are they still playing the character or has it become them so much that they don't even know that they're playing a character anymore, that they've taken the Persona? So Tom Cruise, I wonder that about Tom Cruise's sense of like, when did that start? When did he figure that out and when did he just. It just embodies entire life.

[Kyle Reed]

It's like a lot of great leaders. Do they. A lot of. Well, a lot of leaders that we remember and consider great. Franklin Roosevelt. Right. Pretended he wasn't in a wheelchair. He would have his sons or whoever kind of walk him up to the podium and he would orchestrate.

[Donald Miller]

Right.

[Kyle Reed]

But he didn't want to look weak. He didn't think people would elect a guy who's in a wheelchair. And of course, this is pre all television. But we're getting to why Tom Cruise succeeded with this movie, that it's part him.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

There's a dude that's making it succeed.

[Donald Miller]

Take it a level deeper. This happens in our culture with politics, with celebrities, with music. Do we as Americans, we'll talk America. Do we need that person to embody that character, to like them?

[Kyle Reed]

We like it.

[Donald Miller]

We do.

[Kyle Reed]

We like it.

[Donald Miller]

We do.

[Kyle Reed]

I've always said, I don't know that Taylor Swift would be as popular if she were singing about like how frustrating it is that she can't write off her private jet.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

No, that woman is a CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation and that is not what she's singing about. No, she's singing about that girl talked bad about me and I don't like you and I'm letting the world know, you know, she's singing about the stuff that like her fans actually deal with.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm sure that like, she is ticked that somebody talked bad about it.

[Donald Miller]

She's putting out well, but she's emphasizing.

[Kyle Reed]

The parts that we have in common.

[Donald Miller]

Yes. There's gotta be some kind of connection point there.

[Kyle Reed]

And the aspirational identity of a woman who will stand up to that dude who broke her heart and now, you know, it's empowering these women. There's a lot there.

[Donald Miller]

And it makes you wonder, like, some of the success of this movie is like, we like that. We like that there's a guy out there who would. Would perform a stunt and like be so focused on the stunt that he knows he's Being recorded to make that like we like that.

[Kyle Reed]

The whole thing is kind of orchestrated.

[Donald Miller]

It could be a little.

[Kyle Reed]

Because we are willing to suspend disbelief. We are going along with you.

[Donald Miller]

Totally. We're bought in. And that actually it works great for theaters. Right. Because you're in there, he's an actor, it brings you in, you're all in and you go, that's a little cheesy.

[Kyle Reed]

Did you get into the fact that he was probably extra. An already intense and competitive person is extra motivated because he'd made some serious social faux pas in the decade before this movie came out. I didn't married Katie Holmes. Marriage didn't work. Made a. Acted a fool. As my mother used to say, stop acting a fool on Oprah. Remember jumping on the couch. Scientology. He's taken a massive hit. He's taken a lot of fricking hits that would kill a career. And I think a lot of the stuff that we're talking about is him getting control of his image.

[Donald Miller]

No, I got into a little bit of that. Not to that degree of him restoring his image. More of. I got into him kind of taking on the Persona of I'm gonna save Hollywood, like I'm gonna save movies.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay, that's another question though. Is that part of the Persona or is it like, did he mean it? I think he had to.

[Donald Miller]

I think he did. I think he legitimately felt like, I'm gonna save this industry because I love it so much. And I think that's why.

[Kyle Reed]

And I want to be the frickin hero.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And so I was talking to our producer, Bobby, and one of the things he brought up too, about this episode, I cheated a little bit and got, you know, some extra help. I don't think that's cheating. But one of the things Bobby, he told me a story about, he said that at a party, someone overheard Spielberg telling Tom Cruise, like, you saved Hollywood with this movie. And I actually believe that because if.

[Kyle Reed]

You think about brought it back where we were at, although it's still struggling, like post.

[Donald Miller]

Post Covid. Like that time, like 20, 22 people were not going. I had not seen a movie from.

[Kyle Reed]

10 or dollars a year at the box office to less than 1.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, I mean, I.90% that movie was the first movie I went back to theaters to see because I wanted to see it on imax. And it. I went like by myself in the middle.

[Kyle Reed]

They can release that on IMAX tomorrow. And it would.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, I would go. I would go see it again. 100%.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

100%.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay, let's get into the actual movie.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

And why do you think the movie succeeded?

[Donald Miller]

It's the classics of the hero's journey. I mean, it's the it, it's the formula. It follows everything. And here's the thing, as cheesy as we sit here and talk about that, we love it.

[Kyle Reed]

We love it.

[Donald Miller]

I love it.

[Kyle Reed]

These formulas exist because they work. And so when we talk about formulas, if you've been around me long enough, you've probably heard me talk about Blake Snyder's book, Save the Cat. And Save the Cat is a book that is the most influential book in Hollywood. It's about a 20 year old book, I think. And probably every single person who writes a movie or group of people who writes a movie that gets produced has read and been largely influenced by that book. And that book is the formula for how to write a movie. Now you can actually tell how close somebody gets to the formula and whether or not they're taking sort of creative liberties. And some people can take creative liberties and it's really great. But the formula is basically there. And I would say I've never seen a movie except for Toy Story 2 that was more on point with Blake Snyder's. It's called a beat sheet. And Toy Story 2 is one of the greatest movies ever, greatest screenplays ever created. And so these stories are all sort of like metaphors and myths around what Joseph Campbell would call the hero's journey or pathways to bliss. What Blake Snyder did was he actually said, okay, I'm not a philosopher, but let me tell you what to do. If you really want to write a great movie, the first thing that has to happen is this. And then the second thing that happens has to happen is this. And literally, if you go through the beat sheet for Blake Snyder's Save the Cat, which is the book, it is things like, Let me. It is things like opening image, Right. Theme stated, the setup, the catalyst, the debate, the break into Act 2. The B story is introduced. Then there's a scene of like fun and games and then there's the midpoint, which is the midpoint climax. Then the bad guys close in, then everything is lost. And then there's a dark night of the soul and a great reckoning and that breaks into Act 3 in which you have the finale and the final image.

[Donald Miller]

Yep.

[Kyle Reed]

Toy Story 2 and Top Gun Maverick use every fricking beat and pretty much don't add anything else.

[Donald Miller]

And what's amazing is as you're reading every beat point, you could picture it in your head I've seen scenes in my head, here comes Tom Cruise, you know, on the plane.

[Kyle Reed]

Opening in a, Maverick works as a test pilot, pushing the limits of experiment. That's the opening. Now we know who that dude is. Then there's a theme stated. The importance of teamwork is the theme of the movie. And so if we don't come together as a team, it's not going to work. And so, of course, what has to happen, all this energy that tries to disrupt the team.

[Donald Miller]

Drama of the team.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, exactly. And then there's the setup. We see Maverick's current life and his reluctance to advance in rank due to his rebellious nature. So there's all this antagonism working internally against the characters and against the team itself. And then the catalyst, which is the inciting incident where you throw the hero into the deep end. He's sent to Top Gun school to actually be an instructor, where he's got all this bad blood. Right?

[Donald Miller]

And then the nostalgia back to Goose and his son. And just.

[Kyle Reed]

All right, so we agree on the fact that one of the reasons this thing made $1.3 billion is it is a formula that works.

[Donald Miller]

Yes. Yep.

[Kyle Reed]

You just said a word, though, that I think is another reason. Yeah, nostalgia.

[Donald Miller]

Nostalgia, absolutely.

[Kyle Reed]

What's your take on that?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, it's interesting because there's a nostalgia point of, you know, again, we said, like, so I was born in 86, so I did not see the movie, Right. My dad didn't ever take me to see the movie or anything like that. But there was a nostalgia feature of, like, hearing the legend of Top Gun. So when I went back and actually watched it, because I wanted to watch the original Top Gun before I went and saw Maverick, I was like, this is not. This is. Okay, this is not, like, amazing, but I get it. I get it. I get why this is a great movie, right? But there was some kind of nostalgia to the point of, like, knowing this was a, like, a legendary movie, you know, back in the 80s. Then the nostalgia of, like.

[Kyle Reed]

Like Ghostbusters or something. You know, you're Indiana Jones, you know, you're going back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And then there was nostalgia of, like, my dad's generation seeing that. Right? And then kind of the bringing in this legendary. Of Tom Cruise. And so I think part of the reason why it worked was because you had multi generations participating in conversation around.

[Kyle Reed]

It, participating in conversations. And also you had the generation with the wallet taking their kids to A$30. Obvious that meant something to them a long time ago. Now, this is what's Interesting. I actually did a little deep dive into just the psychology of nostalgia.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, okay.

[Kyle Reed]

Because why does it work?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

And I think there are several reasons. We view the past more favorably than the present because we actually delete all of the boring stuff and the negative stuff from our mind. When we look back, the mind is an editor, and so it actually looks back at a relationship or when it looks back at raising children, it doesn't think about the dirty diapers and the puking on you as you're trying to drive to church. Doesn't think about any of that stuff. It thinks about. It only remembers kind of the positive. And so this is why we get tricked into having more than one kid. We have the second and third, the fourth. It just works like that. Which, by the way, is really, really beautiful. So we have selective of memory. Now, here's the real reason, though, and this wasn't in the research, but this is my proposal about nostalgia. And it ties right into Top Gun. When I watched Top Gun in theaters and I had to have seen it in theaters and I probably saw it multiple times, this would have been like one of the first blockbuster movies I'd ever seen. Right. So I'm 53 now. I've seen 100 of them. So there's a law of diminishing returns. So it wasn't just that the movie was good. It was that I had a childlike or young adult perspective watching a movie that was good. And so, you know, we've all had the experience where we go back and we watch an old movie that we really loved, and we're just like, huh, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Why did I love that?

[Kyle Reed]

Why did I love that? Well, it's because it's the first time, you know, if the first time you ever HEAR the Beatles versus the 93rd time, you hear, you know, love me, do. There's a law of diminishing returns.

[Donald Miller]

All right, so I have to pause you.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

A couple things are coming to my brain.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

I'm thinking about you, the lion sitting on the front row.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Okay. So all of you, probably at some degree, this was, what, your first.

[Kyle Reed]

We're all the same age. We're right in there.

[Donald Miller]

So you're, like, brought back to that.

[Kyle Reed]

Moment, bringing back our child.

[Donald Miller]

Here's something that's interesting, I think. What if this Top Gun movie was terrible? The Maverick? What if Maverick was not shot?

[Kyle Reed]

Which has been done. Which has been done with other sequels.

[Donald Miller]

So to some degree, you can play off nostalgia. You can play off of character like a hero. Tom Cruise, Embodying this guy, you can play off the Blake Snyder's, you know, formula, but if you don't deliver right on the actual product of making doesn't work. Killer movie.

[Kyle Reed]

You can make 500 million.

[Donald Miller]

Yes.

[Kyle Reed]

You can't make 1.3 billion.

[Donald Miller]

And we've seen movies like that where it's gotta be quality things. Right. So that's something that came up as you were talking about, like nostalgia works. We see a lot of brands use nostalgia, but if it doesn't deliver, it doesn't work.

[Kyle Reed]

And I would actually say the fact that that movie was so incredibly formulaic speaks to the humility of Tom Cruise. Because me and my buddy Thad went and saw Megalopolis. It's Francis Ford Coppola's latest film and supposedly his final masterpiece. This is the man who made the Godfather and the Godfather 2, which are two of the best movies that have ever been made. This movie was pure crap.

[Donald Miller]

I was gonna say. It doesn't sound.

[Kyle Reed]

It was awful. It was absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

Oh, is this the one you walked out of?

[Kyle Reed]

I was embarrassed for these actors who are brilliant. Right. And it was basically Francis Ford Coppola saying, I am so great that I don't need four years. I don't need them.

[Donald Miller]

So part of the reason why Maverick worked, if I'm here, what you're hearing is the humility.

[Kyle Reed]

He didn't trust himself. He trusted what works. Best practices. These are the best practices that we know. Make people want to eat more popcorn and wiggle in their skin.

[Donald Miller]

Go see it multiple times, hope that guy wins.

[Kyle Reed]

And he just goes, I'm going to nail it.

[Donald Miller]

All right. So one more I wanted to point out in my research of why this worked. If you remember the culture conversation at the time, people were very afraid to talk about America. Interesting. And the positivity of America. And I think the first Top Gun played off of this kind of like American Pride.

[Kyle Reed]

Yep.

[Donald Miller]

But at the time.

[Kyle Reed]

And it was in an age. Listen. It was in an age. It was during the Cold War. There were a lot of nuclear weapons being pointed at each other. Mikhail Gorbachev was finally. We went through, like, alcoholic, die fast Russian leader after Russian leader. I can't even name them all. And then Gorbachev comes along, is willing to work with Reagan. And the media loves to play up bad guy versus good guy. And you had the Berlin Wall. That was. I mean, it was. You had an actual enemy, or at least a perceived enemy. Gorbachev was not an enemy. He was actually very pro globalization. But.

[Donald Miller]

And I think with Maverick they leaned into kind of that pride of like.

[Kyle Reed]

They did, which goes back into nostalgia because it's not cool anymore to actually say that any country is bad, which is a joke. Autocracies are bad friends. Xi Jinping is not a good guy. He's not your friend. You know what I'm saying? Go look at Venezuela.

[Donald Miller]

Well, and I think that the beauty of the film was they leaned into the pride of the military of the United States. What is interesting is I don't even know who they were fighting. It was kind of faceless.

[Kyle Reed]

I think they kind of named them, didn't they?

[Donald Miller]

That's what I mean. I don't even remember.

[Kyle Reed]

Everybody had something in their head.

[Donald Miller]

I just remember had to fly up that bank and hit the perfect shot. Very Luke Skywalker esque, by the way. But you mentioned there was a point where.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, like a sub point of what you're talking about. And it has to do with nostalgia. And it has to do with a nostalgia about an age in which, at least in perception, there were clear good guys and clear bad guys. And it's going to be very controversial what I'm about to say, but I believe it. There were gender roles. If you look at the masculinity of Top Gun 1 and Top Gun Maverick. Right. There was a lot of controversial stuff. Sexism, toxic masculinity, military propaganda, glorification of war, outdated gender roles. You know, the way they handled grief is not the way any therapist would recommend handling grief. It was dudes being primitive dudes. And I think Top Gun Maverick brought specifically that piece of nostalgia back. And I think an American audience missed dudes being able to be dudes.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, no, he leaned into every stereotype you can think of.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, you got to know what he probably did was he had some sort of data where they were watching those movies and like the 10 things that people liked most had to appear. They even did like the karaoke, ish, whatever, sing of their singing in the bar. I remember as a kid watching that in junior high and like 17 years old sneaking into bars and we were singing whatever that you. I recruited Lost that love and feeling. We did that 10 times in bars in Houston, Texas. Like a bunch of dorks. Like, imagine a 16 year old fat kid singing to a girl at a bar.

[Donald Miller]

Did it work?

[Kyle Reed]

No, of course not. She's like 27. We couldn't even buy a beer and we're singing this song.

[Donald Miller]

I saw it in a movie. I'm sure this works.

[Kyle Reed]

Like who the hell thinks we're fighter pilots?

[Donald Miller]

That's so funny. So, okay, so give me like an Instagram moment. 60 second. Why, in your opinion, did Top Gun Maverick work?

[Kyle Reed]

If I had to say, there's one reason, it goes all the way back to Tom Cruise. You know, it's so true with almost anything that succeeds in life, period. There's a person. There's a person, and that person is obsessive. They are intense, they are competitive, they are strategic and they are action oriented. And without Tom Cruise, that movie doesn't exist. And it certainly doesn't make $1.3 billion. It's a dude. And I would say that with any, you know, if I was private equity and we're going to invest in some company, I want to say, show me the person, show me the woman, show me the man. That is the main reason this thing is going to succeed. And if you can't show me that person, we are not betting on that. Period. We're not betting on it because it's not going to work. Ideas don't win. People who spread and believe ideas win. So show me the person and Tom Cruise is the person.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, love that. And I would say it worked because they knew the rules and they knew how to work in the environment. They were to attract attention.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

So they knew.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, we didn't even get any of that as a reason is the amount of attention about the movie that he was able to generate.

[Donald Miller]

And that's, that's my favorite example. You know, I always, for me, I'm always focused on marketing and ideas around marketing. And that's some of my favorite ways people use marketing is a lot of people will go, you know, oh, let's, you know, let's get attention this way. Or let's, let's make this. Or, you know, so maybe we like draw attention by releasing theaters, but like they're doing it in a way that doesn't make sense to what they're releasing. I think what Top Gun Maverick reminds me of is they knew the rules. They then added the rules in to lead to their success. So they said everybody's going to streaming. Well, this is the perfect movie for theaters. And we're gonna bet that people are going to show up. So they knew that this is what everybody's doing and we're gonna go this way.

[Kyle Reed]

A lot of uniqueness, a lot of differentiators. You know, Hollywood actors have their own. Have stuntmen. Not Tom Cruise.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, not Tom Cruise.

[Kyle Reed]

Right.

[Donald Miller]

But it only works for certain people because I think there are other movies that could have been out there and go, well, let's Tom Cruise, they did it. They went to theaters. Let's go to theaters, too, and we'll, we'll get the same success and it doesn't work. So they knew that if we do these things, we can deliver on a amazing experience. You can deliver on nostalgia.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

We have the right guy. To your point, driving the ship forward in Tom Cruise. He's going to do everything he can to make this successful. Yeah. That's why it worked.

[Bobby Richards]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free custom message tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.