Why That Worked #3: Thought Leaders—How Innovative Thinkers Build a Following and Shape Modern Culture

Summary

Marketing Made Simple: Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Why That Worked #3: Thought Leaders—How Innovative Thinkers Build a Following and Shape Modern Culture
Release Date: January 22, 2025
Hosts: Donald Miller and Kyle Reed
Presented By: StoryBrand AI

---

Introduction to Thought Leadership

In the episode titled "Why That Worked #3: Thought Leaders—How Innovative Thinkers Build a Following and Shape Modern Culture," hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed delve into the concept of thought leadership. They explore how certain individuals manage to build substantial followings and influence modern culture through innovative thinking.

Defining Thought Leaders vs. Curators

Donald Miller [03:25]:
"When we're trying to define what a thought leader is, there's a difference."

The conversation begins with an exploration of what constitutes a thought leader. Donald Miller distinguishes between thought leaders and curators, emphasizing that while thought leaders originate new ideas and worldviews, curators compile and present existing ideas without necessarily contributing original thought.

• Kyle Reed [02:05]:
  "I just like the way he thinks. Alex is brilliant."

• Donald Miller [03:53]:
  "Chris Williamson is not a thought leader because he may have a worldview, but he doesn't exist to espouse that worldview."

Miller cites examples such as Chris Williamson from Modern Wisdom, labeling him more of a curator who brings together various thought leaders rather than being one himself. In contrast, figures like Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung are classified as thought leaders due to their original contributions to psychology.

Characteristics of Thought Leaders

The hosts identify several key traits that distinguish thought leaders:

1. Original Thinking: Thought leaders develop unique perspectives or frameworks that offer new insights into existing problems or areas of interest.

2. Worldview Definition: They present a coherent worldview that challenges or redefines prevailing paradigms.

3. Cultural Influence: Their ideas have a significant impact on shaping cultural norms and discussions.

Donald Miller [17:53]:
"Thought leaders more. It just seems like the thought leader sees the world differently and puts out a thought and makes more sense and I would say is a giant leap in progress."

Reasons Why People Follow Thought Leaders

Donald Miller outlines four primary reasons individuals are drawn to thought leaders:

1. Desire for Innovation [06:50]:
   People seek new and current ideas that can help them achieve their personal or professional goals.

   Donald Miller [06:50]:
   "The desire for innovation. We want what's new, we want what's current."

2. Guidance [06:50]:
   Aligning with the StoryBrand philosophy, Miller suggests that individuals see themselves as heroes needing guides, which thought leaders naturally fulfill.

   Donald Miller [07:00]:
   "Thought leaders position themselves as guides just naturally, intuitively, and we choose them."

3. Simplicity [06:50]:
   Thought leaders simplify complex ideas, making them accessible without requiring extensive personal research.

   Donald Miller [06:50]:
   "We want somebody to simplify a complex idea and we don't have time to research it and do it ourselves."

4. Confirmation Bias and Tribe Building [06:50]:
   People are inclined to follow thought leaders who confirm their existing beliefs and help them feel part of a community.

   Donald Miller [07:18]:
   "We are designed for survival, which means two things. One, we want to identify threats, and two, we want to join a tribe that will defend us from those threats."

   Kyle Reed [07:44]:
   "We outsource our thinking to people who think like me."

Impact of Thought Leaders on Culture

The episode discusses how thought leaders can both positively and negatively influence culture. While they can drive progress and innovation, there is also the potential for misuse, such as hijacking cultural narratives for harmful purposes.

Donald Miller [24:32]:
"A thought leader can actually hijack a whole culture to do really evil things."

Steps to Becoming a Thought Leader

Donald Miller provides a strategic framework for aspiring thought leaders:

1. Define a Villain [19:30]:
   Identify a significant challenge or opposing force that your vision aims to overcome.

2. Cast a Vision [19:30]:
   Articulate a clear and compelling vision that addresses the defined villain.

3. Define Values [19:30]:
   Establish the core values that will guide the realization of your vision and attract like-minded followers.

   Donald Miller [19:36]:
   "Define a villain. Cast a vision that defeats that villain or usurps that paradigm in culture, and then actually define the values that will make that vision happen."

4. Establish Expertise [19:30]:
   Develop deep knowledge and understanding in your chosen area to build credibility.

5. Create Original Content [19:30]:
   Share your ideas consistently through various platforms to build a following.

6. Commit to Long-Term Learning [19:30]:
   Continuously educate yourself and refine your ideas to maintain relevance and authority.

Donald Miller [19:37]:
"You're not just marketing and messaging clarification of message. It's not just why people succeed."

Challenges in Thought Leadership

The hosts acknowledge the difficulties in achieving genuine thought leadership. Many individuals may present themselves as thought leaders without contributing original ideas, relying instead on curating and repackaging existing concepts.

Donald Miller [10:32]:
"I would say I'm a hybrid between a leader and a thought leader."

Donald Miller [23:26]:
"The mistakes that you can make are, one, you're not an expert. You're a fake. Right. You're just curating information, repeating other people's ideas and trying to sound smart."

The Role of Thought Leaders in Modern Media

With the proliferation of media platforms, the barrier to becoming a thought leader has lowered, leading to an influx of voices. However, this democratization has also blurred the lines between genuine thought leaders and mere curators or bullhorns.

Donald Miller [18:25]:
"Now more than ever. You said bullhorns. There's more noise, there's more opportunity."

Conclusion: The Importance and Responsibility of Thought Leaders

The episode wraps up by emphasizing the enduring need for thought leaders as guides for individuals seeking direction and innovation. However, it also cautions about the ethical responsibilities thought leaders bear in shaping cultural narratives.

Donald Miller [24:34]:
"Every hero needs a guide. It's a human need to have somebody else telling us how to do it, why to do it, when and where to do it, and that's never going to go away."

Donald Miller [24:57]:
"If you are a good person with a good heart and want good things for the world and your ideas are good, then God bless you. I hope you become a thought leader."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Donald Miller [03:25]:
  "When we're trying to define what a thought leader is, there's a difference."

• Donald Miller [06:50]:
  "The desire for innovation. We want what's new, we want what's current."

• Donald Miller [07:18]:
  "We are designed for survival, which means two things. One, we want to identify threats, and two, we want to join a tribe that will defend us from those threats."

• Donald Miller [19:36]:
  "Define a villain. Cast a vision that defeats that villain or usurps that paradigm in culture, and then actually define the values that will make that vision happen."

• Donald Miller [24:57]:
  "If you are a good person with a good heart and want good things for the world and your ideas are good, then God bless you. I hope you become a thought leader."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Marketing Made Simple provides a comprehensive examination of thought leadership, distinguishing genuine innovators from curators, and outlining the path to becoming a thought leader. Donald Miller and Kyle Reed offer valuable insights into the motivations behind following thought leaders and the significant impact these individuals have on shaping modern culture.

For listeners seeking to understand the dynamics of influence and the role of thought leaders in today's media landscape, this episode serves as an essential guide.

Transcript

[Bobby Richards]

Hey, hero makers, it's podcast producer Bobby Richards. I'm jumping in to share with you a new episode of our brand new podcast, why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI with Donald Miller back in the host seat. Now, since we launched Marketing Made simple, we've been so grateful to have everybody tune in each week to learn how to make your marketing easy and make it work. Which is exactly why we're sharing new episodes of the why that Worked podcast here. In the old Marketing Made simple feedback, but only for a limited time. Each episode of the new show is going to deliver actionable insights and key takeaways that are all designed so you can implement them to help make whatever you're working on work. Now, here's the deal. Like I said, this is only for a limited time. If you want to catch new episodes early, you can watch or listen every Monday. To watch the show, just go subscribe to the StoryBrand YouTube channel. And to listen, go follow why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI wherever you enjoy your podcasts. All right, that's it from me. So grateful you're here and enjoy this week's episode of why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI. You're listening to the why that Work podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Donald Miller]

Kyle, who are you listening to right now? In terms of thought leaders? Before you even define what a thought leader is, who's got your attention?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, a couple guys I like a lot. Chris Williamson from Modern Wisdom.

[Donald Miller]

Love Chris Williamson.

[Kyle Reed]

I love his podcast.

[Donald Miller]

I would contend later in this episode that he's not a thought leader. He's something else extremely valuable to society. But I would consider he's not a thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

I love his podcast, Hermozi Hermosi. I like a lot. I just like the way he thinks Alex is brilliant. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And he actually, before he got mega famous, we zoomed one.

[Kyle Reed]

Really?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Did he have his.

[Donald Miller]

All of it.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

I mean, it's not a shtick. And he was just unbelievably generous and kind. Yeah, Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

I just. I guess when you ask me who, it's really a subset of people who they think differently and then they're willing to share why they do something. Those are the people I listen to.

[Donald Miller]

They think differently. And they share why and probably how A little bit.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Yeah. I like people who don't give just traditional, do X, Y and Z. Instead they go, here's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Here's why I think about things.

[Donald Miller]

Did you find that it was kind of difficult to actually define in your mind in order to research this episode what a thought leader even is?

[Kyle Reed]

Not until I started thinking about it. Because I think everybody, maybe I don't want to make an assumption here, but people listening to this or watching this might automatically when they hear word thought leader, it pops in their head, you know, who that person is. But when you really start to think about, well, what does make a thought leader or are they really a thought leader, then I start to go, you know, I sort of ask myself, what is a thought leader?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

You know what, what, how does that work?

[Donald Miller]

What's interesting about the idea of thought leaders is it's, it's exploded. Used to there were two or three, maybe four thought leaders. Now we're not talking about leaders. There's a difference between leaders and thought leaders. There's thousands of leaders there and now there are thousands of thought leaders. But back in the day there weren't that many thought leaders.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. And it was. Do you think it was my premise on that is media was just controlled far more so there was not outlets.

[Donald Miller]

There weren't as many outlets.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And somebody who was really brilliant and had a worldview and had ideas to share, didn't have a way to share them. And now they actually do. And so you're seeing brilliance. Kind of people just turn on their camera and they share their thoughts. And now we kind of divide up into these followers of this thought leader and this other thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. One of my, the earliest thought leaders for me was Gary Vee. Gary Vee has always been someone for.

[Donald Miller]

Me who I would say he's a thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Who I've always, even back 15 years ago, just consumed everything he said.

[Donald Miller]

What about Gary? Why was that though? What was it about Gary Veal? First of all, he was dropping the F bomb and nobody was dropping the F bomb in professional settings.

[Kyle Reed]

It's to my premise of he's a guy who wasn't giving traditional answers. He was practicing what he had a.

[Donald Miller]

Blue collar perspective on a white collar industry.

[Kyle Reed]

That's right. He brought down the veil. He showed you behind the scenes. He was a practitioner.

[Donald Miller]

There was also just for entertainment value, there was contrast. He was talking about wine like a truck driver.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.

[Donald Miller]

So there was entertainment value to him, too, actually. Let's go back to Chris Williamson, Modern Wisdom, by the way, if you're not subscribed to that podcast, it's a great podcast. He curates some of the great minds and he asks great questions and he gives great feedback and all that kind of stuff. I wouldn't call him a thought leader because I don't know that. He may have a worldview, but he doesn't exist to espouse that worldview. Yeah, he's a curator of information, but not an originator necessarily of information. So I don't mean that to dismiss him because I listen to him all the time.

[Kyle Reed]

It's a good thought.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, but I think that's the difference. When we're trying to define what a thought leader is, there's a difference.

[Kyle Reed]

He's almost a curator of thought leaders. He's bringing thought leaders into a room to discuss. But you're right.

[Donald Miller]

And he's not a dumb dude. He's actually brilliant when you hear him pontificate and throw the ball back and forth. He can throw it back and forth with a bunch of different thought leaders.

[Kyle Reed]

What about you? Who's some thought leaders you enjoy?

[Donald Miller]

Well, when I think about, like, I mean, the thought leaders that I'm listening to right now are Peter Attia on longevity, Andrew Huberman, you know, those are the guys. Because I'm 53 and I really want to live to be 85 or 90. And so I'm listening to those. So specifically, you know, I try to think, why are we drawn to thought leaders? And I came up with four reasons. The desire for innovation. We want what's new, we want what's current, and whatever the newest trick or thing is that's going to help us accomplish X, whether it's cooking or relationships or business or health or parenting, you know, Dr. Becky, you know, on. And we want that. That's part of it. Then we want guidance. And this goes into the stuff I get into building a story brand. The idea that every human being identifies as a hero in a story, and every hero in a story, he needs a guide who has been before us, conquered our trouble, and gotten us out of it. So if we gotten themselves out of it, now know how to get us out of it. So as heroes, we are looking for guides. Therefore, thought leaders position themselves as guides just naturally, intuitively, and we choose them. Another one. And this may be the. This is the second biggest reason. I'll get to the first biggest reason next. Simplicity. We want somebody to simplify a complex idea and we don't have time to research it and do it ourselves. Yeah, yeah, we're not. I'm not going to sit there and figure out, you know, atoms and cells in my body and, you know, deteriorating, whatever over time. Peter T. Is going to do that for me. And so it simplifies ideas. And this is the number one. This is going to get really contentious here. Confirmation bias and tribe building.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

We are drawn to thought leaders who confirm our biases. And listen, this is what I wrote down. We are designed for survival, which means two things. One, we want to identify threats, and two, we want to join a tribe that will defend us from those threats.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, that's interesting because I came into this conversation, little behind the scenes is we come up with a topic and then we don't really discuss.

[Donald Miller]

We don't talk to each other about it.

[Kyle Reed]

And so we kind of come in with some thoughts. And one of the things I wrote down was we outsource our thinking.

[Donald Miller]

I've heard you say that before, and it's so true.

[Kyle Reed]

And we let people curate our thinking. But it's interesting you bring up that last point.

[Donald Miller]

Confirmation bias.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Because I didn't add that into my equation. And you're right, though, because I outsource my thinking to people who think like me.

[Donald Miller]

It's very difficult for me who justify your thinking.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, absolutely. And it's even to you.

[Donald Miller]

We all do it, by the way. People are just. People are probably listening, going, well, I don't do that. No, you absolutely do. You do it with different thought leaders who contend with the other popular thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, I remember in my 20s, part of my struggle was I was always looking for the next video or book to give me the answer. I always thought kind of the first point of maybe they have the answer that I just haven't found yet. And if I just listen to that episode or if I just read that book, I can discover what I'm missing. And there's kind of that feeling of if only I can just find what the truth is here in this latest episode, then I will be happy. And so some of that, though, was my kind of confirmation bias of like, they had something I didn't know I needed and I was letting them kind of tell me what did I need to do next, Kind of again, back to that. Outsourcing my next steps in life. But that's the thing I haven't contended with, is you're right, the tribal nature, we naturally gravitate to one side or the other just naturally right or wrong.

[Donald Miller]

To groups of people.

[Kyle Reed]

Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

It's survival, nature. And the way studies show over and over that you. You think what your friends think. In other words, you think you're being objective, but you're actually not. Your subconscious brain is convincing you that this group of people is right. Because if we all agree with each other, we feel safe in a group, which is fascinating.

[Kyle Reed]

It is.

[Donald Miller]

In other words, you could actually take yourself out of your current environment and put yourself in a different environment, and about three years later, you probably would believe what that group believes at least a lot more than you used to. Just because you don't want to be an outlier. Yeah, because it's dangerous to be an outlier.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm from St. Louis, and I moved to Nashville 15 years ago. And I remember when I moved here, I very quickly realized the clothes that I wore in St. Louis are different than the clothes. And I started to change to your point, to the group I was in kind of subconsciously, but realized that I was even outsourcing my. You know, how do I fit in? To some degree. Now, here's an interesting thing. You're a thought leader, I would say. And I would say you.

[Donald Miller]

I would contend with that a little bit. I would say I'm a hybrid.

[Kyle Reed]

Really.

[Donald Miller]

I would say Chris Williamson is not a thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

Joe Rogan is a hybrid. Jordan Peterson is a thought leader, and I'm a hybrid.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay. So. Okay, let me rewind then. Because one of the things I got from your definition of a thought leader, it seems to be for you, is someone who goes away and does the work and then kind of comes back and presents that like Huberman Attia.

[Donald Miller]

It depends on whether the work is original thinking and it's coming from a worldview that is your own or a curator of other people's original thinking, supporting perhaps a worldview. And I would say that's the camp that I fit in.

[Kyle Reed]

Got it.

[Donald Miller]

Because if you look at building a story brand, which is probably the. You know, if there's anything that I've done that is thought leader, like, it's that book. And so it's a business thought leader about inviting people into a story. You know, that stuff is based on Plato. It's based on, obviously, Joseph Campbell and Pathways to Bliss and the Hero's Journey. It's based on Robert McKee's story. It's based on Christopher Booker's the Seven Basic Plots. It's based on Blake Snyder's of Save the Cat, and it applies those Thoughts, curated thoughts. Best practices amongst ancient narrative structures in marketing. So that's where I innovated. I brought something that existed to. And I don't know that I could. You could say, well, that's a thought.

[Bobby Richards]

If you don't communicate clearly, all your emails, your website, social media posts, everything you're communicating will be ignored. Storybrand AI is like the world's best communication expert writing it for you. Imagine having the world's best communicator writing your tagline. Just type in the name of your company, answer a few prompts, and voila. Hey, that's a good one. Use it to write your social media posts, website, wireframe emails, lead generating PDF, product or service descriptions, anything you need for your business. What would happen to your revenue if every word that left your business was crystal clear and worth paying attention to? StoryBrand AI is your competitive advantage. So you'll know, you'll say it clearly. Try it right now and let us write your custom tagline for free at StoryBrand AI.

[Kyle Reed]

See, okay, because that's what I'm curious is, you're saying you're a hybrid. I would say that is a thought leader, because you took, I think, one of your skills, and I'm specifically thinking about here, on a mission, building a story brand, even coach builder, to a degree. Your secret power is to take thoughts and simplify them and put it into a system or framework, which we've talked about that, and put it into something and then teach other people why this matters.

[Donald Miller]

Agreed. But I would actually say isn't that leadership? Which, by the way, I'm not diminishing myself for saying I'm a hybrid. Let's say I'm a hybrid between a leader and a thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

Would you say you're more of a cultivator of culture in a sense? Like, if you call Rogan a hybrid, we're getting like nitty gritty nerd.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

You call him a hybrid. I would say Rogan shapes culture. He's got the biggest podcast there is. He shapes the direction of culture, I believe. I mean, I'm holding the latest version of building Story brand. One million copies sold. Like, you've shaped marketing. That in my eyes, then would put you as. That would be a definition of a thought leader.

[Donald Miller]

Well, you know what, and we're being subjective, right? You and I can walk away with two different definitions of a thought leader. I would say I'm putting thoughts in people's heads. I'm not sure that they're original or my, you know, a thought Leader is the one who led with the thought. And I guess that's where I'm getting into semantics, right? So when I think about the most influential thought leaders who were obvious thought leaders, here's what comes to mind. They're going to be really weird. Karl Marx, right. Communism, Marxism, socialism. That is a thought leader. And by the way, I'm going to get a bunch of hate mail on this. Marxism is a really, really, really good idea that doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature and a utopia society. Yeah, yeah, Vacuum. It works fantastic. You know, you be a dentist and you be a. And screw you with whatever you wanted because this is what's best for the state. It doesn't work.

[Kyle Reed]

We forget the whole human nature thing.

[Donald Miller]

That's exactly it. And I don't mean that is by what a beautiful thing that Karl Marx thought. We were all so generous.

[Kyle Reed]

You know what I mean?

[Donald Miller]

It's not a bad fault to have. Okay, here's one that's going to be out of left field. Thought leader, Dr. Atkins. The Atkins diet. He thought differently, based on some science and propelled a completely different worldview into our modern lexicon. The Atkins diet. The modern lexiconin. Now it's ketogenic diets and carnivore diets. That's all Atkins. That's what that stuff is. So I would say he led with the thought. And then I remember growing up in Houston, Texas, there were things called Rush rooms. And basically you could go to lunch at a restaurant with 50 other people in the restaurant eating lunch. Nobody would talk to each other. You know what they would do?

[Kyle Reed]

No, what?

[Donald Miller]

They would listen to Rush Limbaugh.

[Kyle Reed]

Rush Limbaugh.

[Donald Miller]

See, like, so the Sizzler down on Broadway would say, we got a Rush Room. And it means, don't talk. Come here and eat. Bring your friends. Don't talk. Just listen to Rush.

[Kyle Reed]

And people would do that?

[Donald Miller]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Hundreds of thousands of people in Houston.

[Kyle Reed]

Would do, Sit in a room quietly.

[Donald Miller]

And listen to Rush. And, you know, this is pre podcast, man. This is pre, like conservative media. This is pre Fox News. He was a leader. Not saying I agree with him. He was. But you talk about confirmation bias and tribe building. Rush Limbaugh was the. Was the first guy to do it.

[Kyle Reed]

So one of the things I'm hearing you say is a thought leader is someone who has an original thought and moves to the.

[Donald Miller]

I would say not just original thought, a worldview.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

A view of the world, which is different than a curator. Right? Karl Marx had a view of the world. Dr. Atkins had a view of the human body and the world, how the world worked and the body interacted with the world and food and all that stuff. Rush Limbaugh had a view of American politics. He really sort of defined and became a bullhorn. I mean, politicians followed him. Right. He didn't follow them. And he was also just kind of like, wildly entertaining, which has nothing to do with being a thought leader, but it is super, super helpful. But I would say all three of those completely unrelated industries. Sigmund Freud, thought leader. Right. Carl Jung, curator.

[Kyle Reed]

Interesting.

[Donald Miller]

But Carl Jung was a thought leader. Maybe Alfred Adler was less of a thought leader and more of a curator of personality theory. But Sigmund Freud was a thought leader.

[Kyle Reed]

Right, Okay, I see where you're going.

[Donald Miller]

See what I'm saying?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Like, the thoughts are. The thoughts are curating thoughts. Fairly original. And they're dramatically affecting and shaping culture when they come out.

[Kyle Reed]

So it sounds to me there's more curators than there are thought leaders. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking about everything you're saying right now. Processing. We're at an interesting inflection in time because as we talk about the rise of thought leaders, and I even would add an addendum into this, the Rise of Curators, Bullhorns. We're at an interesting time where now more than ever. You said bullhorns. There's more noise, there's more opportunity. There's more opportunity for people on all kinds of different mediums to get their thoughts out there. And maybe they're not their thoughts. Maybe they're more curating thoughts.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. Like, Alex Morozi would be a curator.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay.

[Donald Miller]

He definitely is brilliant.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, go tell me about that.

[Donald Miller]

If I said to you, what is the original worldview that Alex Hormozi brings in? He'd have trouble articulating it. Right. If I had Sigmund Freud, you'd say, oh, we are hardwired by nurture and nature in our upbringing and various traumatic and sexual orientations based on, you know. He was explaining why people did things in a different way than anybody ever. What Alex Hormozi is saying is, here's some fricking awesome curated ideas and strategies on growing a business. That's hard to even call it a thought leader. And that is not to diminish me or him or anybody else. There is leadership.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

We're getting into semantics, right?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, well. And I think.

[Donald Miller]

But I think we have to define what a thought leader is.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. No, I think that Makes a lot of sense. It's kind of even, you know, got my head spinning a little bit on this idea. You're right though. Thought leaders more. It just seems like the thought leader sees the world differently and puts out.

[Donald Miller]

A thought and makes more sense and I would say is a giant leap in progress.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay, Don, So someone listening to this, including myself, I'm sitting here wondering how could I ever become a thought leader?

[Donald Miller]

Do you want to be one?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. And what. I mean, why not? Why not? Yeah. But I don't. But now that we're talking about this, I'm wondering what are the steps that I or someone listening to this would even take? And is it possible now to become a thought leader?

[Donald Miller]

I think we would all have to agree that some people have a proclivity to become a thought leader more than others. They're just originators of ideas. I'll tell you who's a thought leader. And a lot of people don't think of us as thought leaders. Elon Musk. Elon Musk is actually a thought leader in. Especially in the areas of how. In the area of how to run really big organizations. Yeah, I have issues with him being involved in our government in some ways because there are so many freaking government contracts that he has. It's kind of a dumb idea to put him in charge. And yet I'm like, but if we can get some of that, how to fricking do this thing better than NASA ever did it. I'd like that. And cheaper, with less people and less idiocracy that we have. Or idiocy, I should say. Idiocracy is, by the way, great movie. It's a thought leader movie if there ever was one. But I think Elon Musk is that way. So I think that first of all, I think certain people have a proclivity to do it. I think if you wanted to become a thought leader, here's step one. It's a three part step and you need to define a villain. Cast a vision that defeats that villain or usurps that paradigm in culture, and then actually define the values that will make that vision happen. That the sort of people we need to be in order to embody those values. So a villain, a vision and values just happens to be 3vs. But I think once you establish that, you would want to establish expertise in that area, you really want to dive deep into the villain, the vision, especially the vision. Don't spend too much time on the villain and the values that it would take for us to accomplish that vision. And then you got to start creating original content around that and start sharing that. Now a lot of people think, you know, in order to be a thought leader, I need to go on YouTube and start saying smart things. Yes, but smart things about why this villain is no good, why this vision is where we need to head and why these values are what's going to get us there. And then stay in your lane as long as you possibly can and go deep into that expertise, whether it's like why the stock market doesn't work or why we should be supporting Ukraine, or why globalization is a bad idea, which, by the way, I don't think it is. Why the US Military should not be policing our shipping channels, which, by the way, they should. You gotta come up with your area of the world. And please, mine is. Mine is. I'm an enneagram3. I'm a high D on the disc test. It's success. It's not just marketing and messaging, clarification of message, even though it's not for why people succeed. Which is why I love this podcast. You know, I'd love to go deep in, but I'm really more of a curator. Right. But there's a vision there and we're establishing values. And then I think you have to stay committed to long term learning about that for a really long time. The mistakes that you can make are, one, you're not an expert. You're a fake. Right. You're just curating information, repeating other people's ideas and trying to sound smart. You haven't identified a vision for the world. Your vision is you being smart. That's a joke. And we don't need you. There's no core values that are building toward your vision. You're not disciplined getting up every day and doing some writing and some content on this thing. That's kind of how somebody would need to become a thought leader. It's hard to imagine anybody doing that strategically rather than just intuitively.

[Kyle Reed]

And this has always been a premise of yours is there's something that each person in this world knows more than.

[Donald Miller]

Someone else or has a proclivity to try to understand.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes. And if they can just put it into some sort of framework or structure, they can teach that.

[Donald Miller]

They can teach that.

[Kyle Reed]

And that's the biggest thing I'm walking away with is a. We've kind of defined what a thought leader is, hopefully. Yeah, I think we have. And then also we're seeing like, okay, how do you curate those thoughts and how do you grab that and then teach that?

[Donald Miller]

And How.

[Kyle Reed]

And then there's a way, if you want to go out and start to share that these are the things to follow.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah. And also, listen, I think we've hopefully, and maybe even more importantly than anything else, we've uncovered a little bit, or at least shared some insight on why they exist, both good and bad. They simplify our thinking. They to some degree curate our thinking. They originate new thinking. They innovate. However, we are biased toward our own confirmation. And a lot of times we think people are out to get us. And they're not out to get us because we are. We are here to survive. And so, in other words, a thought leader can actually hijack a whole culture to do really evil things.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And you got to be really careful with that.

[Kyle Reed]

All right, so why do thought leaders work?

[Donald Miller]

I would. I would just go back to. Because every hero needs a guide. It's a human need to have somebody else telling us how to do it, why to do it, when and where to do it, and that's never going to go away. And listen, if you. If you are a good person with a good heart and want good things for the world and your ideas are good, then God bless you.

[Kyle Reed]

Just.

[Donald Miller]

Just. I hope you become a thought leader.

[Bobby Richards]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free, customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.