Why That Worked #4: Football—Why It Became America’s Favorite Ritual

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why That Worked #4: Football—Why It Became America’s Favorite Ritual"

Introduction

In the January 29, 2025 episode of Marketing Made Simple, hosted by Donald Miller and Kyle Reed, the discussion delves into the cultural phenomenon of football and its standing as America’s favorite ritual. The episode, titled "Why That Worked #4: Football—Why It Became America’s Favorite Ritual," explores the multifaceted reasons behind football’s enduring popularity, comparing it to other sports and highlighting its unique storytelling, community-building, and financial strategies.

Hosts and Guests

• Donald Miller: Host and author of Unreasonable Hospitality.
• Kyle Reed: Co-host with a personal journey from musician to football enthusiast.
• Christina: Contributor sharing personal anecdotes and insights on football’s cultural impact.

Key Topics Discussed

1. Personal Journeys into Football

   Kyle Reed shares his initial disinterest in sports, emphasizing how the COVID-19 pandemic transformed his and his wife Christina’s weekend routines to include watching football. This shift from non-sports enthusiast to avid Bills fans underscores football’s ability to create new rituals and engage diverse audiences.

   Kyle Reed [03:22]: "Then Covid hit, and my wife and I were living up in the country, and, you know, Covid, you just get bored at a certain point. We started watching football on Sundays. That was the beginning of a ritual."

2. The Rhythm of the Game

   Donald Miller highlights the structured weekly rhythm of football, which perfectly aligns with listeners' lives. The predictable schedule—from game day to post-game discussions—creates a manageable and engaging ritual.

   Donald Miller [05:19]: "Why does football work? The weekly rhythm. It follows the perfect script. You have the lead-up to the game, the game itself, and post-game discussions."

3. Storytelling and Plot Structure

   Christina elaborates on football’s superior story structure compared to other sports, emphasizing the continuous flow of plots and subplots that maintain viewers’ engagement.

   Christina [09:02]: "It has the best story structure of any sport. Every down is a drama, every play is a story. It's using plots, subplots, open story loops, and closing story loops... better than any Hollywood script."

4. Community and Tradition

   The hosts discuss how football fosters community and tradition, serving as a central point for social gatherings and family traditions, such as Thanksgiving football games.

   Donald Miller [16:00]: "Football works because it’s one of the main sports that as you grow up, you're indoctrinated into, like, that's my team. It’s a connecting experience, a shared loyalty."

5. Loyalty and Identity

   Christina shares personal stories illustrating how football creates deep-seated loyalty and identity. Her marriage story, tied to a pivotal game, exemplifies how football can intertwine with personal milestones and relationships.

   Christina [17:53]: "He left her all this stuff. And I'm sitting there in the stands going, if we don't win this game, they are effectively not giving me their daughter. ... And we won the game. It felt like she's mine now."

6. Financial Strategies and Media Integration

   Christina and the hosts analyze the financial strategies that have cemented football’s dominance, such as the abundance of commercial breaks and the seamless integration of fantasy sports and gambling, which enhance viewer engagement and revenue.

   Christina [33:14]: "The reason is the money. Compared to why didn't soccer take off in America? Football got a foothold because you can put commercials in it. There are numerous opportunities for revenue streams."

7. Comparison with Other Sports

   The episode contrasts football with soccer and other sports, arguing that football’s unique combination of accessibility, storytelling, and financial viability outpaces other sports despite soccer’s global popularity.

   Christina [21:53]: "Soccer is by far the most popular sport in the world, and it makes billions and billions more than football. Why? Football is a more entertaining and engaging sport."

8. Psychological Engagement and Gamification

   The discussion touches on how football’s partial reinforcement—uncertain outcomes and constant engagement—keeps fans invested. Additionally, the rise of fantasy football and gambling adds layers of personal investment, making each game more than just a spectator event.

   Christina [24:00]: "Football gives you partial reinforcement. Every play and drive keeps you on the edge, maintaining engagement throughout the game and the season."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kyle Reed [03:22]: "Then Covid hit, and my wife and I were living up in the country ... we started watching football on Sundays. That was a ritual."
• Christina [09:02]: "It has the best story structure of any sport. Every down is a drama, every play is a story."
• Donald's Miller [16:00]: "Football works because it’s one of the main sports that as you grow up, you're indoctrinated into, like, that's my team."
• Christina [17:53]: "If we don't win this game, they are effectively not giving me their daughter. ... And we won the game. It felt like she's mine now."
• Christina [33:14]: "The reason is the money. Compared to why didn't soccer take off in America? Football got a foothold because you can put commercials in it."
• Christina [24:00]: "Football gives you partial reinforcement. Every play and drive keeps you on the edge."

Conclusions and Insights

The episode concludes that football's success as America's favorite ritual is a synergistic result of its structured rhythm, compelling storytelling, deep community ties, and effective monetization strategies. The integration of modern elements like fantasy sports and gambling further amplifies fan engagement, ensuring football remains a dominant cultural force.

Final Thoughts

Donald Miller encapsulates the discussion by emphasizing football's role in community building and tradition, making it more than just a sport but a foundational element of American cultural identity.

Donald Miller [32:20]: "And for me, those are the reasons why I think football works for me and for in America and beyond."

Closing

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the intricate dynamics that make football a pervasive and beloved ritual in American society. The episode not only sheds light on the sport's operational mechanics but also invites marketers and enthusiasts to appreciate the deeper cultural resonance football holds.

Transcript

[Bobby Richards]

Hey, hero makers, it's podcast producer Bobby Richards. I'm jumping in to share with you a new episode of our brand new podcast, why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI with Donald Miller back in the host seat. Now, since we launched Marketing Made simple, we've been so grateful to have everybody tune in each week to learn how to make your marketing easy and make it work. Which is exactly why we're sharing new episodes of the why that Worked podcast here. In the old Marketing Made simple feedback, but only for a limited time. Each episode of the new show is going to deliver actionable insights and key takeaways that are all designed so you can implement them to help make whatever you're working on work. Now, here's the deal. Like I said, this is only for a limited time. If you want to catch new episodes early, you can watch or listen every Monday. To watch the show, just go subscribe to the StoryBrand YouTube channel. And to listen, go follow why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI wherever you enjoy your podcasts. All right, that's it from me. So grateful you're here. And enjoy this week's episode of why that worked, presented by StoryBrand AI. You're listening to the why that Worked podcast, presented by StoryBrand AI. If you've ever wondered why certain brands, trends, or cultural phenomena find success while others don't, you're in the right place. Every week we unpack why something worked, then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life. Now let's dive in with your hosts, Donald Miller and Kyle Reed.

[Donald Miller]

Well, goodara.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

Welcome to why Thy Work podcast.

[Kyle Reed]

Thank you so much.

[Donald Miller]

You've written a bestselling book called Unreasonable Hospitality.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

And have opened up one of the greatest restaurants in America. We're a part of that.

[Christina]

One of the number one.

[Kyle Reed]

The number one in the world. But in the world.

[Christina]

In America.

[Donald Miller]

Scratch all that. And also, America can't win here. At some point, we need to talk about hospitality, but today we're not talking about that. Today we are having you on the show because we sent you over a list of show things.

[Christina]

Why hospitality work sounded too boring.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, no. No one. No one wants to. No one wants to read about hospitality. Apparently they do.

[Christina]

But a truckload.

[Donald Miller]

Only those in America. But we sent you over a list of topics and you picked one that you. You want to tell us what you picked as far as what we're talking about?

[Christina]

That's just fascinating. Immediately we were like, we're in. Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

You guys sent me a long list. We did And I picked football. Yeah, by the way, could seem pretty counterintuitive to anyone who's known me for a long time, because.

[Christina]

Why is that? I assumed. I haven't known you that long. Couple years, but I assumed. Oh, yeah. He seems like a football fan.

[Kyle Reed]

There's plenty of people that you could have brought on to host this with you that know a lot more about football than I do. But here's my. My relationship to football over the course of my life. Growing up, I was a musician. Drummer. I was a drummer. I was like. That was my world. That was my scene. I played a lot of sports, but I wasn't, like, a big sports fan. And then I started working, and I was working in restaurants, which means you work all the time. And so the idea that you have time to watch any sport for any extended period of time, it's just not a real thing. Then Covid hit, and my wife and I were living up in the country, and, you know, Covid, you just get bored at a certain point. You start looking for things to do. And we started watching football on Sundays. That was.

[Christina]

You and your wife did this together?

[Kyle Reed]

We would do it together.

[Christina]

Christina was in.

[Kyle Reed]

Christina was in every single Sunday. And we'd have a lot of people come up and have Christina.

[Christina]

Kobe.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, yeah. Get her involved. Christina's totally into it now.

[Christina]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Kyle Reed]

But we started watching football, and now, whatever it is, five years later, every single weekend revolves around when the Bills are playing. And we picked the Bills. Cause we were living upstate in New York, and so we were like.

[Christina]

And you also had good timing, by the way.

[Kyle Reed]

They were really starting to, like, really become good timing.

[Christina]

And Josh Allen's very helpful.

[Kyle Reed]

And if you're, like, opting into a team at that point, you're obviously going to not pick a terrible team. But that was the team closest to where we lived at that point.

[Donald Miller]

Because they're close. That's okay.

[Kyle Reed]

We were in upstate New York.

[Donald Miller]

But she didn't, like, grow up with, you know. Your dad was a Buffalo Bills fan.

[Kyle Reed]

No.

[Donald Miller]

Okay. That's why you picked them.

[Kyle Reed]

And in the time since then, Listen, one of the things my dad says all the time is that one of the secrets to happiness is always having something to look forward to. And I think you get older, you have kids. And we talked about that on the show. Filling up the weekends and that one game once a week has become something we look forward to. It was a ritual. Yeah, it became a ritual. And by the way, it's a manageable ritual when you compare the NFL to the NBA or to Major League Baseball. I can consume it all. I don't feel like I'm missing anything. And it becomes. I have a lot more thoughts, but it's become this moment every single week where it's me and my wife, whatever friends happen to be around. And, like, I am emotionally devastated when they lose, really. And I am extraordinarily uplifted.

[Christina]

Your identity is associated now. You're wearing a bill shirt. Your identity.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm wearing a bill shirt. 100%.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

And so I wrote down that point as well. It was like, why does football work? The weekly rhythm.

[Christina]

Yeah, it literally follows.

[Donald Miller]

It follows the perfect script. You have the lead up to the game. You have the game. You have post game. Right. The next couple days, your dialogue. Oh, man, what if we did this? What if we did that?

[Christina]

Television stations podcast everything that are devoted. Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

Then Wednesday hits. You kind of shift the schedule to like, who are we playing next? Lead up, lead up. And then for some reason, Sunday afternoon is the perfect time to turn a football game on.

[Kyle Reed]

But it's not just the weekly rhythm. It's the yearly rhythm. So you go, you're. We're watching the season right now we're getting into the holidays. It's starting it like, it really mirrors what's happening in our lives now. It's getting intense. Right. There's going to be football on Saturday this week because they know we're all ramping into it.

[Christina]

There's football tonight.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

It's running.

[Kyle Reed]

And then we get into the most depressing time of the entire year. Now we have the Super Bowl.

[Donald Miller]

Now we have the Super Bowl.

[Kyle Reed]

Okay. Now everyone's so bummed because football's overweight. Oh, my gosh. Here's the combine. Oh, my gosh. Wait. It's been a couple weeks. All right, let's do the draft.

[Christina]

Slowly amping up.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh, but wait a minute. Now I miss it. No, no, no, it's okay. Now we can follow training. Wait. Okay, now the season has started again.

[Christina]

There's an Arena League up now that comes right after the Super Bowl. They are before.

[Kyle Reed]

Right. Do you think you can stay plugged into your team?

[Donald Miller]

Do you think they did that on purpose? Do you think they strategically figured out we're going to dominate? Because that's one of the conversations you see, you know, in the spring, they take like, that's right when NBA playoffs are going on and the draft crushes the NBA playoffs. Do you think the NFL took intentionally did that?

[Kyle Reed]

I have to believe they did. I Mean, like, listen, the NFL would.

[Christina]

Run year round if it weren't such a brutal sport.

[Kyle Reed]

For sure. But I'm saying they've figured out how to make it run year round.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

In a way that, like, you're.

[Christina]

I talked to Bill Haslam. He bought the Predators hockey team, and I think he said we should know this information, but he said that the NFL makes, like, four times the money as the NHL and like, twice as much money as professional baseball.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh, yeah.

[Christina]

With 120 less games a year. I mean, that's insane. That's insane.

[Kyle Reed]

But I mean, like, the idea. Have you guys ever watched a TV show and you loved it and then the season ended and it didn't come back for another year and a half and you never, like, fell back into it?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, I just did that with Yellowstone. Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

I think the NFL is smart enough to know that if you check out, you might not check back in. And so they give you a good reason to never actually have to check. Like, every year you see your favorite baseball team that might be the same team for three, four, five years, you. No matter how bad. I was talking to a guy on my team, Billy, who's a big Giants fan, and he's like, we're waiting for the draft next year. Could be our year.

[Donald Miller]

Number one pick.

[Kyle Reed]

Right. You always have hope. That's the other thing. You never actually lose a sense of hope in your gm.

[Christina]

I get sad after the super bowl, and I get sad specifically because there's no more football.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

I mean, you know, draft is all great, but the number of people who are watching the draft versus number people watching games is, like, minuscule.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. But it gives you the ability to stay invested.

[Christina]

Well, sure, you're reading all that stuff, but I. But when the. When it's over, I actually get. I get pretty sad.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And then it is like an emotional. I'm a Seahawks fan, 20 years in Portland, so I became a Seahawks fan. And the emotional investment is so freaking high. And, I mean, when they ran up to the super bowl twice, that was some of the best memories and the best experience I've had in life.

[Donald Miller]

If they would have just ran the ball.

[Kyle Reed]

Did you know. So you know Russell Wilson at Canlis? Canlis, that's right.

[Christina]

He would eat, like, a duck or something.

[Kyle Reed]

Canlis was a restaurant in Seattle by our good friend Brian Canlis. The chef at Canlis at that point point, had come from my restaurant, and he was serving the same duck, more or less, that we served at our restaurant. So he would go to Canlis every single time before the game and eat that duck. And when they played in the super bowl in New York, he came to eleven Madison to have the duck the day before the game.

[Christina]

Unbelievable.

[Donald Miller]

That's a great story for the first.

[Christina]

One or the second one?

[Kyle Reed]

They lost the one, the one they didn't want.

[Christina]

He did throw an interception at the end. I mean. Well, let me tell you my theory on why it works, and it's because it's got the best story structure of any sport. And what I mean by that is there are plots and subplots, right? So there's the main plot of who's gonna win this game. And then you have villains and you have good guys, and it's all contextual on who you're, where you're from and what your team is. So. And then there are even worse villains than other villains, right? There's your arch rival, there's your, you know, your conference, you know, rivals. There's all of that. Then you've got the main plot, who's going to win the game. And then inside of that, you actually have. Every drive is a story. So there's a plot, which is the game. And then every single drive is, are they going to get to the end zone? So that's one drive.

[Kyle Reed]

There's like micro stakes.

[Christina]

And then every play is a story. Are they going to make, you know, they're going to get a few yards, Are they going to get 20 yards and get 30 yards? Are they going to lose a few yards? Are they going to get sacked? Is there going to be a turnover? There are story questions and open story loops, multiple ones, every minute of this game. Now, here's the thing that's different than basketball and hockey and all that stuff. The story starts and ends. So the story is over at the end of the play, and now we start another story, and it's the next play, and it starts and it ends. So there are little breaks between plots and subplots, and they're really not in basketball. It's not like you drive down, you miss the shot, right? Stop the game. All right, now let's start over.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Christina]

So each down is a drama. Then there are players, storylines. There are strategic battles in terms of how are they going to handle the run. This is a running team. How's the defense going to handle that? All that kind of stuff. There are momentum shifts.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, I want to pause on the thing you said about the smaller stories with breaks in between.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Because, I mean, listen, one of the reasons why I think most sports Work, to some extent or another is the idea that you can watch television, which is how we mostly consume these things. It's a better way to consume it, honestly, in community. So when I watch a TV show or a movie with you, we're basically as two people sitting next to each other in silence, staring at a screen for however long. When you're watching sports with people, you are in community, you are building relationships while you have this thing to facilitate.

[Christina]

Building a relationship that you go to theater with your buddies and they pause the movie every 60 seconds so you can talk about it, right? That's the amazing. It's accidental. I'm not saying they strategically created it this way, but that is why this thing is so much more powerful than Hollywood.

[Kyle Reed]

But that's why I think sports on TV work generally. The reason why I love what you said about football is because it gives you the ability to engage with the people around you and not fall out of the thing you're watching. It's almost like built in conversation breaks. Whereas if I start talking to you during a basketball game, we might miss something dramatic. Whereas football's like, you can stop, talk to your buddy for a second. Oh, okay. Now it's time to watch again and.

[Christina]

Think about the adrenaline and the urgency and the intrigue of like, we just lost two yards. So now it's third and five, right? And you're just going, are they going to be able to make this up with what's probably going to be a pass play, right? Are they going to be that story? And now I'm glued to the TV to find out. It's using plots, subplots, open story loops, closing story loops. Better than any Hollywood script. And it's real. It's actually real. That's what's fascinating. I mean, you know, we talk about community building every year. I've got a group of fishing buddies, we call ourselves the Lions. We go fishing in the summer and then in the winter, all of them fly to my house. My wife leaves. We use every bed in the house. I get a 200 inch screen and rear project the national championship. We'll have three TVs going. We hire a chef, there's enormous amounts of booze. We're there for. We're there for three days. And that's how it ends. It ends with that game. And it's all about watching that game. And this year, Oregon Ducks, hopefully, by God, hopefully, they'll be in it.

[Kyle Reed]

The one other thing, by the way.

[Christina]

By the time this airs, people will know they were in It. Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Every time you watch pretty much every other sport, maybe over the course of the entire game, there's like one or two moments where you're like, gosh, this is a big moment. You could say that 20 times throughout a football game. Like every time they're fourth and one and they decide to go for it, you're like, this is it. The entire game is like, this is. And you know that's not true. But there's all these moments where the pressure seems so much more intense than it actually is.

[Donald Miller]

Like the kicker who misses the field goal in the first quarter. You know, that story's already developed because you know those three points are going to come back to haunt them later.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

They miss the extra point, that one point going to hurt later.

[Christina]

You guys ever thought about football and all sports in some ways, especially college football, as proxy wars, that if basically, if these teams didn't play each other, Alabama would go to war against Texas?

[Kyle Reed]

Like, this is. This is the pressure release valve. That's exactly it.

[Christina]

I uphold that theory and believe there's truth to it.

[Donald Miller]

The hatred runs. Could run that deep.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

I mean, well, just. Is it a coincidence that there's not been another civil war since the NFL?

[Donald Miller]

So you would say it's football. Thank you. Football.

[Kyle Reed]

That causation and correlation.

[Christina]

I'm actually curious. I mean, I do believe that we have tribal identities. We need to work out our who's better, who's dominant. You know, is it Alabama? And inside of Alabama, by the way, is it Auburn or Alabama?

[Donald Miller]

Big deal.

[Christina]

Right. Or is it Alabama or Georgia? Is it Georgia or Texas? Right. I mean, I think there's. I think these are actually proxy wars.

[Donald Miller]

That was one of the things I wrote down, which existed forever. Why I think football works is community and tradition. So you.

[Christina]

So it's very sweet of you, Will.

[Donald Miller]

You're interesting because you're a newer fan. You know, you picked it up. You didn't grow up above. There's no story about getting a sweater when you were a kid.

[Kyle Reed]

No.

[Donald Miller]

But there are people out there who have been lifelong Packer fans or lifelong Michigan.

[Christina]

Yeah. It's part of their family.

[Donald Miller]

Those are the people who, when they go to Thanksgiving gatherings, that's all they have to talk about with their. With their siblings. Maybe some people like that. Right. That is a big deal. The day after Thanksgiving or that Saturday after Thanksgiving, we watch Michigan, Ohio State because it's Saturday after every Thanksgiving. Right. So I think football works because it's one of the main sports that as you grow up As a kid, you're indoctrinated into, like, that's my team. Most families, it's a connecting.

[Christina]

It's a thing that connects us. It's a shared experience, shared loyalty. Absolutely.

[Donald Miller]

And you grow up that way. You don't really stray too far from the family. Like, if you grow up, this is my team. You know, my dad liked that team.

[Christina]

I married a New Orleans girl who comes from just the most wonderful family, maybe the most wonderful family I've ever. So let me throw them under the bus. I go to New Orleans.

[Kyle Reed]

I think what you're trying to say is that being said, that being said.

[Christina]

I'm a Seahawks fan. I'm living in Portland. Portland, she's in D.C. then I start meeting her family, you know, go, go to Thanksgiving, all this stuff. And it comes out and they are die hard, die hard Saints fans. And I'm always giving them, you know, shit. We get married on a Saturday, on a Sunday, we fly to Seattle on the way to Hawaii for our honeymoon. We stay for Monday Night Football, which is New Orleans versus Seattle. And I mean, I'm talking crap to these guys, all her brothers and stuff like that the whole time. I happened to interview Pete Carroll, I think, the year before, and so he invited me on the field. So I've got my new wife. We go to Canlas. The night before, I got my wife, my only wife, not my new wife, my only wife on the field, texting with her brother.

[Kyle Reed]

Field wife is still at home.

[Christina]

He left her all this kind of stuff. And I'm sitting there in the stands going, if we don't win this game, they are effectively not giving me their daughter. Like, they're like this. They still have.

[Kyle Reed]

They still have.

[Christina]

And we won the game. And emotionally, it felt like she's mine now. Like, you were huge Saints fan. She's making my daughter.

[Donald Miller]

It's something about your masculinity.

[Christina]

It was something on the line in that game, and thank God we won that game.

[Donald Miller]

What a way to start a marriage. Let's go to a football game against the team that you love.

[Christina]

Yeah, it worked.

[Bobby Richards]

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[Christina]

And voila.

[Bobby Richards]

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[Christina]

Here's another thing, another thing from that story that is beautiful about football. There's a guy, he's a New Orleans Saints fan and he's called Whistleblower. He has a Saints jersey on, he's got Whistleblower on the name, on the back plate of his name.

[Kyle Reed]

I sat behind that guy at a Saints game once.

[Christina]

Unbelievable. And he's got a giant whistle for a helmet head.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Christina]

And he's whistling ear piercing annoying whistles with like two fingers in his mouth the whole frickin. And he only does it when the stadium is quiet because our team has the ball and we're like two rows behind us. You've experienced this guy.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes, he's any unbelievably in New Orleans.

[Christina]

I sat there, he's unbelievably annoying and everybody is just yelling at him. Would you please frickin cut that out. And he will not stop. The police come, the police come and they go up to him and they're ready to take this guy away because enough people have complained and all of the Saints fans start yelling at the police just like dude, what are you doing?

[Kyle Reed]

He's a guy, that's our guy.

[Christina]

Yeah, like he's, come on, get out of here. Blah, blah, you know, come on. He's just, why are you doing this? They're like, well somebody complained, Sid, they want us to take him. Why would you take him away? The police leave and everybody starts attacking him again. That also says something nice about Seahawks fan. Cause God at Green Bay they would have just let him go.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, but I think what you're talking about is the power of ritual and tradition which by the way you alluded to like every Thanksgiving or you know that that guy for however long he lives is always going to be at those games. You know, I mean even like you talk about tailgating, like the amount of ritual and tradition that has organically over time been built around this sport more than any other sport.

[Christina]

Yeah, more than any other.

[Kyle Reed]

And I think people, I think it.

[Christina]

Goes back to the 17 games also. You can't do that 130 times in baseball.

[Donald Miller]

People aren't tailgating for hockey Games?

[Christina]

No, no.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, and I also think people want to feel the capacity to consume all of something. And it's just one of the few sports that you actually have that capacity.

[Christina]

Yeah. Let me ask you this. In America, I mean, football dominates. I've got season tickets to Nashville Soccer Club and, and we love it. And I, I bought them specifically because as Emmeline grows up, I want her to have these cultural memories of, of we get in this 1978 FJ40, we go down to the stadium, you know, we walk in. I want her to be an NSC fan. And it's often like watching fish in an aquarium. I mean, I don't want to criticize the sport too much, but I'm like, this is a but.

[Kyle Reed]

Here we go.

[Christina]

My buddy in Portland, I was never a soccer fan. My buddy was like, you know, he traveled backpack Europe once he comes back as a soccer fan and he's like, okay, Don, four in the morning, I'm going to come pick you up. We're going to go to this bar, you're going to watch the World Cup. I'm going to make you a soccer fan. I go, four in the morning, we're at a bar and the game ends in a tie. And I'm like, all right. He goes, don, Don, Don. Tomorrow morning, four in the morning, I go, gaiman's in a tie, third game. This is the. In the opening rounds, you can have ties. Third game against who versus who, I don't care. Ends in a tie. And I just look at him and go, your sport is flawed. And he just looks at me in defeat because he can't argue with it. Now we're going to get hate mail on this one. Soccer is by far the most popular sport in the world, and it makes billions and billions more than football. Why? I mean, now let me tell you this. I'm an NSC fan. I have season tickets. I enjoy going. So I'm not saying. I am saying, like, football is a more entertaining and engaging sport. So why is it that soccer takes off globally? I mean, it's older, you know, it's 200 plus years old.

[Kyle Reed]

I mean, my. This is totally unfair.

[Christina]

Anybody can play it.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, no, it's the, it is the. Listen, you are always going to be most prone to love the thing that you grew up playing. And it is the sport of all of the major sports that requires the.

[Christina]

Least money, the least.

[Kyle Reed]

We have a ball. We can go play out there.

[Donald Miller]

Yes.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh, every other sport requires something else.

[Christina]

It requires tape, ball and newspaper.

[Kyle Reed]

It's the great equalizer. It doesn't matter what resource you have. You can play soccer.

[Christina]

I'll tell you what, there are. There are plays that I've seen nsc, you know, Muktar. I mean, that are. They defy humanity. What these guys are actually doing is.

[Kyle Reed]

This where you try to, like, make up a little bit of the hate mail. Now you're like, no, no, no. But I actually really like soccer.

[Christina]

No, no, let me finish.

[Donald Miller]

Let me finish.

[Christina]

And those plays happen twice a year.

[Kyle Reed]

Like, no, no, no, no.

[Christina]

I'm.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm digging deeper. No, when they do, actually.

[Christina]

Here you go. This is one of the things that I researched. Why, you know, why does football work? Also soccer, even to a more degree? Partial reinforcement. The sport does not give you what you want every time. Yeah. So every year I'm like, this could be the Seahawks year. This could be Geno Smith. He's been a backup for 30 years. He's gonna. He's coming.

[Kyle Reed]

This is coming up. But it is the one sprint where there's enough people on the team that you could draft a couple guys and they could actually change it. There's reason for a sense of optimism, even if it very rarely plays out in the way you want it to.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

All right, I got one.

[Christina]

Was it Maslow's or not Maslow's? Was it Pavlov's dog that he did. If you reinforce the dogs only partially, they salivate more. If you give them food every time, it becomes predictable and they're not as engaged. But. And I think football gives you that. It gives you that on every play, on every drive and in every game and every season. It's partial.

[Donald Miller]

And that's why we can't have it year round. Because imagine if it. If they're just like, well, everybody loves this. Let's just keep the season going. It has to stop.

[Kyle Reed]

That's right.

[Donald Miller]

All right, I got one for you guys. I don't. You have yet to mention. Let's see. If you think about this, let me say. Have you ever watched the Red Zone Channel?

[Christina]

Yes.

[Donald Miller]

I think football works because technology has risen to the demand of the Red Zone Channel. Dfs. You know what DFS is?

[Christina]

What's dfs?

[Donald Miller]

Daily Fantasy sports. So you. You played fantasy football. This guy doesn't know he's talking about.

[Kyle Reed]

Do you really think that fantasy football ruins the sport?

[Christina]

It ruins? Yes, because you're sitting there with a buddy watching the Seahawks, and they're rooting for one guy on the other team. Like, what is this?

[Kyle Reed]

See, man, I would challenge that. Yeah.

[Donald Miller]

I think it makes it bigger because here's why. So you're a Buffalo Bill fan? I'm a Rams fan. I can only watch the Rams play one time. But on Sunday, I sit. I can sit there if my wife will let me for seven hours and watch the entire day.

[Kyle Reed]

It gives you a reason to want to watch every game.

[Christina]

And that's every game for any team.

[Kyle Reed]

For any team.

[Christina]

That happened, by the way, in college football this year. Because now that there's 12 teams in the playoffs.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

A lot of other teams matter to me.

[Kyle Reed]

Yes.

[Christina]

Right. Like Penn State. Are they any good? We might meet them. And now you're watching other games that I could care less about before, but they might play the Ducks, you know, and I don't. So I get that. But fantasy sport, it's almost like there's two seasons happening in one.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, but no, but here's the thing. I think that anytime you can gamify something such that everyone that's watching is also in some way participating, they're going to be that much more invested in everyone's success.

[Christina]

So you're saying this is another reason.

[Kyle Reed]

That it's getting even more interesting with fantasy football. People are not just watching anymore. They're not just following along, they are engaging. They are playing like everyone playing fantasy football. They're basically on the field now. Like, they think that they are Josh Allen, because they've fielded their team. They are going to win, by the way. What feels better than competing with and hopefully beating your friends at something like. And now you and I could be watching. We could be a fan of the same team. I still might beat you. And that's kind of awesome. It's like another depth of.

[Christina]

What about gambling?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, gambling is a massive.

[Christina]

You gamble? Yeah. You gamble on. Do you gamble every Sunday?

[Donald Miller]

It depends on how well I'm doing. If I'm down a little bit. No, it's true, though. It's kind of sad. It's gotten to the place where I call it. I got to have a little juice on the game to make me interested. And so that is part of it is the participation of watching that. And so, you know, pretty regularly.

[Christina]

Yeah, I can't do it.

[Kyle Reed]

I can't.

[Christina]

It gets my blood pressure. I don't know. I think it would take years off my Life to have $1 on this game would take years off my life.

[Kyle Reed]

I'm so bad with that, too.

[Christina]

I don't know. What if it's an identity thing? Like, I am actually a loser who Made bad decisions rather than like, my favorite thing is like, I can't believe they lost. But if they win, I'm like, can't believe we won. That was awesome. We won and they lost. Have you ever noticed that?

[Donald Miller]

Yeah.

[Christina]

When they lose, it's them.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Christina]

Your identity is actually associated with this.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, I think fantasy football, gambling, red zone.

[Christina]

What's your big reason? Number one reason why football works. Yeah, all three of us have to answer this. Number one reason why that worked. In hindsight, looking back on football, by the way, I will submit that college football is actually more entertaining than the NFL now.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, I think you're crazy, but that's really. Yeah, I watch college football. I love the NFL.

[Christina]

So many more dynamics. Rivalries are so much more heated. So can I, like, you could say the Falcons are playing their arch rivals or whatever, and I'm like, I didn't know they were rivals. Auburn plays Alabama. Michigan plays Ohio State. Come on.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, listen, people, the reason I disagree with you is my number one reason that football, and in this case the NFL, works so well. I believe people inherently are bored. We need things to look forward to, but we want to get really excited about things that we can fully commit to and fully understand. The NFL gives you so much and not too much. College football fans, in my experience, are more rabid than NFL fans, but there are fewer of them because there's just more that you need to understand.

[Christina]

May I contend with that point?

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

The Horseshoe, over 100,000 people in the stands. Michigan, over 100,000 people in the stands. Texas A and M. Kyle Field. Over 100,000 people in the stands. Find me an NFL stadium that has anything.

[Kyle Reed]

No, but there's, like, specific parts of America where that is the case. You go anywhere in America and you're going to meet a lot of NFL fans. The college football thing is more regionally focused.

[Christina]

The only argument I would give you there is every college football.

[Kyle Reed]

New York City really cares about college football. Unless you came from one of those.

[Christina]

Places and you live in New York. Yeah. New York City is a bastion of normalcy. I think. I think. Yeah, I think the voters just voted on that.

[Kyle Reed]

Are we doing this now? Let's go.

[Christina]

I will say this. Every college football player's dream is to win a Super Bowl.

[Donald Miller]

Yeah, that's true.

[Christina]

So it is the pinnacle.

[Kyle Reed]

No, but I'm just saying I think you need to be more into football to love college football than you need to be into football to love the NFL.

[Christina]

That's probably true.

[Kyle Reed]

I think that's Kyle, what's your.

[Donald Miller]

Well, to piggyback a little off wills. I think football encapsulates all the things. It's got a great storyline.

[Christina]

It's tons of great storyline.

[Donald Miller]

There's a rhythm to it. It's weekly. I don't have to watch every game to understand what's going on. I can tune in on Sunday. I know the players. So that's my difference. In NFL versus college, it's hard to keep up with unless you're just a die hard, you know, Tennessee fan. You do not know who their quarterback is. But for the NFL, I know pretty much every player in the major positions so I can connect there and then for me, why does football work? Is the ability to watch and keep, be entertained by the red zone. I don't watch a game by itself.

[Christina]

You mean the red zone channel.

[Donald Miller]

Only watch. I only watch on red zone.

[Christina]

It was working before that.

[Kyle Reed]

Wow.

[Donald Miller]

It was. I'm just saying for me, why does football work today?

[Christina]

So do you not have a team that you sit down and you watch?

[Donald Miller]

I mean I like to. I will watch the Rams play for sure. I'm a, I'm a Rams fan.

[Kyle Reed]

Are you from.

[Donald Miller]

I'm from St. Louis. So the Rams moved.

[Kyle Reed]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Donald Miller]

When I was a teenager.

[Christina]

And then that must have been heartbreaking for you.

[Donald Miller]

Horrible.

[Christina]

Because they won a Super Bowl.

[Donald Miller]

They did. And I, so I moved to Nashville and so when the Rams moved to la, I said, well, I moved, they moved, I'll stick with them. And but there's a loyalty there. See, that's the other interesting thing. Like living in Nashville now, I, I, the Titans, if they win, cool.

[Christina]

But they make it hard.

[Donald Miller]

I don't care. There's something in me about my city. Like that I'm prideful and I cannot cheer for another team unless it's my city. So there's something to be said about that too.

[Christina]

Identity association.

[Donald Miller]

So for me, those are the reasons why I think football works for me and for in America and beyond.

[Kyle Reed]

Well, you just said something I just want to underline, which I think is kind of remarkable about football and some sports, but exaggerated in football in the NFL and college football. Like we live in a culture where we're mostly fair weather fans about most things. Like we celebrate someone until they start to fail and then you throw them to the wolves.

[Christina]

Right.

[Kyle Reed]

Like that's, we love doing that. But gosh, people are loyal to teams that have never even won. Like people love teams year after year after year through all of it. And it's kind of incredible.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kyle Reed]

Actually, it gives me a little bit of hope in humanity.

[Christina]

All right, here's my reason that I think football took off in the way it has. It would have taken off anyway, but we're talking about massively taking off.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

The reason is the money. There is so much money. I mean, everybody says follow the money. It's true.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Listen to this. Compared to you say, why didn't soccer take off in America? One, football had kind of got a foothold here and soccer is taking off here. Football got a foothold. One of the reasons soccer didn't take off is you can't put commercials in it. It wasn't until you could green screen the thing on the sidelines and actually get people to pay you money while you're watching a game. There's no breaks. There's a break at halftime.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah, that's right.

[Christina]

That's it. Listen to this. Commercial break opportunities. End of every quarter, two minute warning, every single timeout, after any score, kickoffs, anytime somebody's injured, replay reviews and change of possessions, plus floating 30 second timeouts. You can. Literally, you can. How many times have you watched football when they'll run a play and they go to commercial, they'll come back, they'll run a play and they go to commercial, but the story loop is open so big, like they're on the 12 yard line, guys.

[Kyle Reed]

Baseball has all the commercials and baseball had a foothold before football.

[Christina]

Right.

[Kyle Reed]

And it still did better and the NFL still came in. Yeah.

[Christina]

The other thing we didn't talk about, it's gladiators. It's violent.

[Kyle Reed]

Yeah. I mean, the thing is, whatever the reason why it works, who cares? I'm just so happy.

[Christina]

I'm so happy it exists.

[Bobby Richards]

Thanks for listening to the why that Worked podcast presented by StoryBrand AI. If you like the show, follow where wherever you get your podcasts and if you're Enjoying this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode. Curious about how StoryBrand AI can help you create clear, effective messaging? Well, you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business. Just go to storybrand AI. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.

[Christina]

Sa.