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Welcome to the Win with Paid Ads podcast for small business owners, entrepreneurs and really anyone who has anything you want more people to find. Whether you're starting from ground zero or scaling an eight figure business, you are exactly who this podcast was created for. Because you being the best kept secret helps no one. Right? That's why in every episode, I'll show you how you can use paid ads to hit your goals 10 times sooner. It's time you finally learn how to win with paid ads. You or someone on your team can do this. I'll show you how to score and be known by more. Let's get started. This is why I never, or at least almost never, can't remember the last time I did ask for a refund and why this one thought and how you handle this and approach this as an entrepreneur could change every type of buyer that you ever attract forever. So this is like a hot take episode, in my opinion. I was like, am I actually going to record this? Am I going to say this? And honestly, I feel like there's a chance that it changes. Just one person who's listening may actually let this resonate and may let this soak in and it might actually change how you behave. And I, when I was writing this, I was like, if this actually changes someone's behavior, it could change their entire life. Like this one episode on this one thing, because I'm calling you out or I'm not calling you out and I'm calling out the type of buyers that you have experience in your company and I'm giving you a different thought process about it and how you can handle it as a leader. And so I really feel like whether this is you or isn't you, you'll be so glad you listened to this episode. If you have ever asked for a refund for something or ever have clients who ask for a refund or cancel, we're going to talk about it. Okay? So this episode might challenge you, but it is coming from a place of respect and, and not judgment. Okay. We have all been a certain person in our lives in the past that we are likely not today. I know I am an absolutely different wife and friend than I was a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, like 10 years ago. This is crazy, but this is just an opportunity to be vulnerable with you while I challenge you. In just a moment. I was the type of crazy person who would text Kyle and be like, when did your golf game end? Are you home? How far away are you? I'm like, why? Why are you that Crazy. Like, live your own life. Well, I didn't have my own life or my own interest or my own thing. It was like my identity was attached to him, and so I was attached to his schedule and everything. And I tried to control everything. And thank God I did a little Mel Robbins. And just to have implemented the let them theory, like, I've realized you can't actually control other humans. And so I control me. I can control the things about me that I can control. And I have let control just kind of go in other areas of my life. Do I have a desire for control? Yes, I have. I like to have control over my business and the growth and the speed, and that's what advertising is. But I am absolutely not that wife. Today. I'm like, you're going golfing. That's great. Have a great time. How did you shoot? Who'd you play with? That's awesome. Tell me about the course. Was it playing good? How were the greens? Were they fast? Like, I'm just completely a different person. And so you may listen to this. And if this makes you uncomfortable, if this makes you mad at me, if this makes you frustrated, in fact, if you actually are tempted in the middle of this episode, skip to the next episode. I want you to ask yourself, why is that? Why is this bothering you? And is there a chance that it's because it brought something to the surface that you don't want to think about or haven't thought about? There's a chance. And I'll tell you, I'm so grateful you. Cause you know what happens to me in our relationship. If Kyle ever calls me out on something, my immediate reaction is like, no, I don't do that. Absolutely not. And I'm like, well, he could be right kind of about this one thing. Like, you start to reflect on it. So if your immediate reaction is like, that's absolutely not me, some of you will know and be like, yeah, that's just not how I roll. Your identity won't align with this. And maybe it's not you today, but it was you before, so you can relate. But we're going to talk about people who cancel and people who ask for refunds and why 98% of the time, I think it's the wrong move. And so I'll explain why that's the case. And I just want you to know it's One of the 9 million reasons I was hesitant on even recording this episode is have we had people want to cancel? And, you know, sometimes it's like, what does that say about you that someone wants to cancel your program. And I'm like, do I put that on the Internet? Yes, I absolutely do. And it's because of what I'm about to talk about in this episode. Because to believe that 100% of the people that you sell to will be happy is naive. It's not true. Now, the good news is for me and my company, 98 to 99% of people do not. And that's fantastic. And honestly, there's a. There's a, like, the most honest thing is there's some people. I honestly, looking back, I'm like, I should have made the qualifications more clearly. I should have said, this might not be a right fit for you right now. And so good News is, In 2025, we did so much more of that, especially starting around. Like, there was a kind of pivotal point in Q1, and I was like, this is the point where we're gonna say, here's who we work with and here's who we don't, and here's why. And so we said no to so many more people than we ever had before. And it was the best thing we could have done for our clients and our business. And so just know that it is okay to have someone that actually wants out of your program. And it could have 100%, absolutely, positively nothing to do with you, or there's times that it could and you need to listen to the feedback. That's rare, but it is true. There's absolutely times where you're like, you know what? I'm gonna learn from this and we're gonna move on. And actually, if I look back at the few people who actually just wanted to cancel or ask for a refund, I learned something every single time. And so I'm still so glad it happened. Money out of my pocket. So glad that it happened. And so let's dive into it. This is gonna be a good episode. By the way, don't forget, as some excitement before we jump into this episode and I kind of challenge you a little bit. Another way you can get challenged is by attending the five day Win with paid ads challenge, where I'll challenge the way that you think about your messaging, what you're saying, you're setting, where you're placing your ads, you're targeting who you're getting your ads in front of, you're testing how you're improving your ads and you're profiting and scaling and how you can ultimately take your ads from wherever they are today to where they absolutely can be. And it's, you know, I realized this recently. I'm a challenger. I am an enneagram8. And this all makes sense. Cause I'm like, I just want to challenge everybody to be the best version of themselves. Like, it's so natural in me to be like, no, no, let's think about it this way. But I can also, as a challenger, really respect being challenged too. Like, I love when someone's like, have you thought about it this way? So we're gonna do that today in today's episode. So get the link. Click the link below and join the Win with Paid Ads challenge. Get your platinum ticket. Platinum means we actually get to meet live, and I get to coaching on your business. Specifically, VIP means you kind of get to watch all of that coaching and feedback and learn so much from everybody else. And then general is the five days of training and all are great. All right, so let's talk about it. This is an episode that is not about shaming people for asking for refunds. This is all about identity. So it's about who you become on the. On the other side of getting uncomfortable. Because how you buy is how you show up, and how you do one thing is how you do everything, and how you show up is what you will attract. So I'll never forget, this is one of the most. Of all the things that Macy McNeily has said to me in getting to learn from her as a mentor and then now getting to be a friend with her, is you will attract the type of buyer that you are. If you are the person who gets into something and looks for a reason to get out, so, too will the clients that pay you. I had a client that. This is a factual matter. The fact is, this person said, I think I want to get out. And they said, yeah, it's because those people who bought all my ads, like, two of them already canceled. And I was like, oh, no, this is real life. Like, you are attracting the type of buyer that you are. And if you are the type of person that puts one foot in and has another one out, if you, you know, jump in with a little bit of hesitation and, like, disbelief and doubt, and this isn't gonna work for me. And you actually get in looking for reasons for it not to work for you, and you don't believe it's gonna work out at the beginning, you will attract buyers just like that. And so people that buy with doubt, with reservation, with hesitation, tend to attract complicated buyers, boundary pushers, chronic dissatisfied people, and people who are looking for an exit instead of a solution. And that is no coincidence. That is alignment. They are aligned with how you buy to, whether you realize it or not. So this is the pattern that I've seen and this is where your experience matters. In my business, the people who have asked for refunds nearly 100% of the time share this same pattern. They did not complete the training, not even once, let alone did they watch it seven times, which is what my most successful people do. They literally just watch it and watch it and refine and do watch it, watch it, refine and do. But they didn't finish the program. They tried a little bit for a little while. They got frustrated when it got uncomfortable. And they did not like the pain of figuring things out. In fact, they would have a win and then have amnesia that they had that win four days later. And like, see, it's not working. I mean, it didn't even work. Like, I got all these people to sign up and only a couple bought. And it's just like, it's a negative light on everything. They decided the discomfort meant that something was wrong. In fact, it was me. I'm it. It's the program. Like, they didn't want to own that they made mistakes, that they could have shown up better, that they could have done something different. And it's so much easier not blaming yourself and just being like, it's her, it's someone else. Outside of me, I've never had a fully engaged, immersed, committed, all in person ask for a refund. I've just not had that happen. And listen, this is not about failure. It is about the tolerance for discomfort. Growth is extremely uncomfortable. Learning is grief. And the reason I say that is because you were losing an old version of you. You were losing where things were comfortable. You were losing where they were kind of working. And you're shedding all of that to be in this new version. People around you may not support you. I mean, and here's the thing. I remember when I have these people and they're like, so negative and it's just like, I'm like an eternal optimist, so it's hard for me to relate, but I'm self aware of that. Here's the thing, I think I'm like, what if they have a spouse at home that is like hitting them every day, like, guilting them for this investment? What if that's happening? What if they had someone in their life had cancer and they're like actually helping pay for it and like this crazy life thing happened? Like, what if there's what if, what if a friend just left them? What if their dog just died? Like, I really know that life happens. And so sometimes when we have these situations arise, my immediate gut is this is not about me. Like, and it's not that I'm not willing to take feedback. We are. We just spent so much time, energy and money completely reorganizing, restructuring, adding to and making our main program exponentially better than it could have ever been. And it was so worth it. I'm so glad I changed so many things. I wouldn't have been able to change what I changed without having the challenges that we did with a few people who had a few problems. And I'm like, so thankful because I'm like, oh, if this was their question, if this was a problem, we're never going to have that happen again. Because now I'm going to proactively answer this in the training and I'm actually going to pre qualify the people that buy exponentially, exponentially better and tell them, hey, before you buy, actually, I actually told someone on Instagram last week, I said, hey, I just want to remind you, I know you're excited to jump in, but please don't buy if you're not all in. And the reason I'm saying that is because I heard you say earlier that it's really important to you that you get like this one on one support. And so if you don't get one on one support every day from me, just know that that is not included. And so if that is what you're requiring, you will not get the, you won't get what you want. And, and so we would just encourage you not to buy. And this was a five figure investment that I could have had. And she was like, I'm ready. And I was like, and I just want to, I could just, I wanted to make certain that it was the right person. Because when I do that, everybody else in my program and my team win. And so does the person. I'm like, if she's like, nope, I know exactly what I'm in for. I'm all in. Rock and roll. Great. But I was like, if you are not all in, please don't. Because I was like, this is not a membership, this is a commitment. And I make that excruciatingly clear. And that means I have created an environment of entrepreneurs and business owners who are obsessed with winning. And I'm actually creating and curating a group of a players. And a players want to be around a players. They don't want to be around B, C or D players. And that's same thing with my team. And so I am winning more by creating that, by saying no more, and by really pre qualifying. And I didn't do that as much. So now every, all of this is like data that helps us inform ourselves to make a better decision. So when you think about like a cancellation or a refund, sometimes what you're teaching yourself is how you treat yourself. So you're teaching yourself, oh, I am the person who looks for a way out, who looks for an excuse, who is quick to be like blaming other people and not just in this area of your life. Because I truly believe how you do one thing is how you do everything. And before I keep going, I need you to know there are specific examples where extreme life things have happened, like death, massive illness. And we have made exceptions for people that has absolutely happened. Granted, sometimes what can happen is there are storytellers. You've heard of storytellers? Storytellers are people who tell a story and it is, it is that it is a story. It is not a fact. And so it's, it's been really challenging as a business owner to be like, okay, I want to absolutely have utter empathy when certain things happen. I also, this person has exemplified other things that might make me indicate this is not honest. And again, that's why we're like, okay, how can we pre qualify everybody in this program as best as possible? And I'm really proud to say that like 98% of our people are 100% happy. And it really is like, comes down to, you can't have 100% on anything. I really believe so. Your, your refunds that you have, they aren't just a transaction. They're actually a message that you send to yourself about you. And it's also for the business owner, it actually sends you data. So this is why this matters for business owners specifically and why I wanted to talk about it. So the last thing I'll say before we jump to the next point is you don't attract difficult buyers because you're a bad person. You attract them because something in them could like, be recognizing or resonating with you. So like, there are absolutely people. Let me say this. There are absolutely people who are like, no, I would never cancel. I would absolutely, positively, like, I, I'm that person. I'm like, I absolutely, positively would never pay for someone's coaching program. Like, I made a buying decision and if it was a bad decision, it's on me. I will learn something. And you Know, I watched the School of Hard Knocks yesterday in one of the, like, interviews he had. It was a guy and he was like, a billion dollar software guy. And he was like, one of the best things I did was the worst job. One of the best things I did was learn from the worst boss I ever had. It's like, that is such great feedback. It's like, just learn from it no matter what, and say, you know what I learned. I'm gonna do my due diligence. You know what I learned? This is the way that they operated their program. I will never operate my program this way. Like, there is so much opportunity for you to learn from a buying decision that you as an adult made versus blaming the other adult. Now, there is a point where if someone actually said, I will give you this service, and then they don't, that'd be like me paying a videographer. They never show up. I'm like, I need a refund. You did not offer the service. Of course I'm not gonna be like, no problem. Thanks for ghosting me. Just keep the money. No. That is a perfect example of when you ask for a refund. If someone says they're gonna stain your fence, and they don't, or it's halfway done and they're like, I'm not gonna fix it, it's like, great. I would like a refund. I could totally, totally see the validation in that 100%. If the service isn't delivered, that's one thing. If you didn't deliver the work, that's another thing. And they're very different. So here's another thing. I want you to think about how you communicate the thing you're selling matters. And so that was one of the pieces of feedback I took. I'm like you, Ashley Brock, because it's that book, Extreme Ownership. We'll link to it below this episode. Extreme Ownership would say, it's my fault. So when these few scenarios came up, I was like, it's my fault. I could have made that more clear. I could have said this better. I could have qualified and disqualified. I didn't do it. And so that's actually why we made qualification tiers for our programs. So we said, you have to have a certain amount of revenue for this, and you have to have seven to eight figures to do this. And once we laid that qualification ground, it kind of. It made everything for everyone a little bit smoother because my clients, my team, everybody was on a similar playing ground and had similar experiences because they had gotten their business to a certain Level. And so now here's how I sell. I say, hey, if you are someone who finishes what you started, you commit, you go all in. And you are the person who will make the most out of everything. And you don't question a decision when you're halfway in it. You are comfortable being uncomfortable, and you know that on the other side, the result is worth it. And you are willing to do whatever you need to do and become whoever you need to become in order to win. You. You are a rainmaker, and you will win with this ads program beyond a shadow of a doubt. So sometimes people, I express hesitation, and I. And I kind of pause them. Cause I'm like, I think they're thinking logistics. And I'm like, I can see it as clear as day. You're a freaking hard worker. You. You finish what you start. Like, you are all in. You will win. It's like an identity thing. It's not a logistics thing. And so I have really communicated from our programs on, like, this is a commitment, not a membership. This is this. And. And that's why I'm just so proud. Every single month. I felt like we got better at just communicating. And that's why even in your messaging, in your ads, and anything in your job applications, you are always qualifying while simultaneously disqualifying. And I used to think that when people didn't buy it, wanted to make me cry. I'm like, they don't get it. But it's like you actually don't want everybody to buy. You want for your team, for your clients to win. And. And sometimes that means there is. There's a gate at the door, and not everybody gets to walk through it. And that's something that you should be proud to offer. All right, so a few last things for you. It all comes down to your subconscious. So this is how your subconscious actually affects your confidence. Every time that you exit early, your brain learns something about you. It learns, I quit when it's hard. I don't trust my decisions. And discomfort means danger. And that doesn't just affect how you purchase. That affects every decision that you make after that. And that is what it really comes down to. And so there was a point in my life where I would. I was so stressed about money that I'm like, if I could get a way out, I wanted it. And I realized that's actually the very reason I never hit the level of success I did until I did, because I changed how I thought. I changed how I acted. I changed how I believed. And you can do the same thing too. You could reflect and be like, you know what? I've been that person. I don't want to be that person anymore. Like, you could actually decide today that you're going to be a different buyer. You are going to like taking a really empowering turn. It's not about shame. It is about a choice. A choice that you can make to really make sure that any decision that you make moving forward is the right one, no matter what the result is, that you are going to make the most out of it. You can decide today and say, I'm someone who makes clear decisions. I'm someone who finishes what they start. I, I'm someone who never buys unless I'm all in. And that identity will change the type of people that you attract. Truly. And I know especially for my hall of fame, we have a requirement. It's a seven figure requirement. It's actually a $3 million requirement now where there's a certain level of revenue that you just have to, have to be in that environment. And it was very easy for me to say, gosh, you're so close to it. Why don't you just go ahead and go in? And it's like, no. If you make a concession, like if you don't hold firm to your lot, to your ground, you're teaching yourself and your brain as a leader that you don't hold firm. And I really feel like that will cost you. There's so many, I hate saying no to people. And so being able to stand firm and actually feel the same way, like, I hate saying no to people. But like, if once you treated yourself that way, you're like, I will do what I told myself I'm gonna do no matter what that looks like. Otherwise, just don't tell yourself you're gonna do it. And if you, if you tell yourself you're gonna do something and then you know you're not gonna not do it, just don't do it at all. That's exactly how I feel about these programs asking for a cancellation and just really being self aware of kind of your commitment level before you go in. So a few things for business owners. I want you to protect yourself and your energy. This is why I do strongly recommend working with an attorney on your contracts. Like all joking aside, we spent more on attorney fees and trademarking for people that were trying to copycat and break things. And so you really have to have like a solid contract. So for all of our, our clients who enroll in our programs, it says that upon purchase, you agree to the terms and conditions listed here. And it links to all of our full terms and conditions. Those have been audited by an attorney, actually crafted by an attorney. And so I do want to encourage you. There are people, I had a client last week, she's like, hey, this person asked for a refund. And, like, they watched the whole course. And I'm like, you can't do that. You can't be like, oh, I watched it all. Yeah, I don't like it. And ask for a cancel for somebody else's course. I'm like, you can't do that. So being able to. And then she used it, that was besides the point. But you make sure you have the right terms and conditions for your business so that there's a policy on refunds. And honestly, you're a business owner. You know that refund policies exist for a reason. And especially when you're a good business and you can die or not die. Sorry, if you can, like, lie down at night and go to sleep. And you would die on the hill that, like, you are offering something amazing and 98% of people agree with you, you're doing the right thing. And just because you have a refund doesn't mean you're wrong. And don't do what I do. And let the 2% distract you from the 98%. Like, yes, solve the problem, take the feedback, apply what you can, make it better. Absolutely. But don't lose sleep over the fact that there's a few people that might have scenarios and it's just not the right fit. And it probably wasn't the right fit from the beginning. Be okay with that. So have clear terms, strong contracts, and no refund policies when it's appropriate. You don't have to be harsh. You just have to be clear, because clarity creates safety for you and for your clients, too. So in closing, I want to wrap up and share that asking for a refund does not mean you're a bad person. But constantly looking for an exit will absolutely, positively cap your growth. Buy like the person that you want to attract, Commit to the leader that you're willing to step into. And don't teach yourself that doubt gets rewarded. That one decision will change everything. And you will all of a sudden realize you have a bunch of people that want to pay you that are all in. And because they're all in, they will win. And because they're winning, you, your clients, your family, your team, everybody else will win, too. So I hope that was helpful and allows you to have a way to become the buyer that you want to attract. So speaking of people you want to attract out to have this great community, and honestly, we do right now of hundreds of entrepreneurs that join these Win with Paid Ads challenges that are so all in that everybody else in that room benefits. Like the questions that people ask on these challenges about their advertising and their messaging and their strategy and their budget and how the ads work and what they can test and getting feedback on their website, it is invaluable. And there's no other place on the Internet that teaches with this level of depth across all these different levels of business and businesses and ad strategies. And so for that reason, you belong in the win with PayDads challenge. If you are all in, you're a rainmaker and you're ready for more people to find you and you're willing to invest in yourself and your business to show up and to just be all in for that week. So I'd love to get to meet you. So click the link below, get your platinum ticket to the Win with Pay dad challenge, and otherwise, go advertise your name, make it rain, and I'll see you on the next video.