#119 How Brett Nikula Used Google Ads to Build the Most Profitable Therapy Practice in His Market

Summary

Podcast Summary: Win With Paid Ads #119

How Brett Nikula Used Google Ads to Build the Most Profitable Therapy Practice in His Market

Host: Ashley Brock
Guest: Brett Nikula
Date: May 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights Brett Nikula, a therapist and seven-figure entrepreneur, who shares how mastering Google Ads transformed his therapy practice into the most profitable and well-known in his market. Host Ashley Brock explores Brett’s strategic journey with both his brick-and-mortar and online businesses, unpacking lessons learned, pitfalls, and breakthroughs. The episode closes with a candid, rapid-fire mini-coaching session on handling relationship conflict, showcasing Brett’s expertise in marriage coaching for entrepreneurs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brett’s Journey to Paid Ads Success

• Initial Discovery:

  • Brett found Ashley on Instagram while researching marketing strategies for his online venture, Marriage Essentials (01:14).
  • Attended Ashley’s “Win with Paid Ads” challenge, eventually joining her high-touch mastermind program after a personal nudge from Ashley (01:23–04:48).

• Quote:

  “You can learn all day long for free, and that’s what you’re going to be doing—learning all day long for free. But you get an expert, and it just accelerates everything.” — Brett (04:25)

2. Paid Ads for Brick-and-Mortar Success

• Early Investments:

  • Invested $6,000 in a Google Ads course at his wife’s suggestion, leading to significant business growth (07:29–08:22).
  • Challenges arose after acquiring a new practice, Solas Counseling Associates. Without the optimized ad account history, cost per lead spiked from $80 to $250 (08:22–09:12).

• Breakthrough & Snowball Effect:

  • At Ashley’s event, a team member redesigned Brett’s Google Ads structure—cutting lead costs overnight to $43 (09:47–10:30).
  • Result: drastically higher lead volume, sustained practice growth, and near-market dominance.
  • Scaling ad spend meant "catching any fish that swims by"—becoming omnipresent for potential clients (10:30–12:55).

• Quote:

  “I went from $250 a lead to $43 overnight. It’s been life-changing ever since.” — Brett (10:05)

3. Mastering the Google Ads Learning Curve

• Refinement Over Time:

  • Learning to meticulously mine and prune Google Ads keywords was crucial (09:08–09:12).
  • Loss of account history when shifting to a new business necessitated starting over but proved fertile ground for Ashley's methods.

• Ashley’s Perspective:

  “The only reason that someone's saying it's expensive is because they literally just don’t know what they’re doing… when you actually can master it, you’re owning the market.” — Ashley (12:55)

4. Online Business Funnel—Challenges and Pivots

• Initial Struggles:

  • Online venture Marriage Essentials faced a much steeper uphill with trust and conversion: $5,000 ad spend yielded only three sales (14:26).
  • Unlike local brick-and-mortar, online trust is not implicit; every touchpoint must establish credibility (15:17–16:42).

• Funnel Overhaul:

  • Today’s VIP session focused on auditing and simplifying his online funnel—shifting from a paid ($27) to a free entry point to maximize volume and feedback before scaling monetization (14:59–15:48).

• Quote:

  “With brick and mortar, there’s intrinsic trust within that model… You go into the online space, and everything kind of changes.” — Brett (15:56)

5. Building Marriage Essentials: Origin and Approach

• Personal Breakthrough:

  • Brett leveraged attachment theory and practical interventions to transform his own marriage, then developed a replicable framework for clients (17:50–22:36).
  • Emphasizes that relationship breakthroughs come not just from knowledge, but from consistent application and repair during conflict cycles.

• Quote:

  “In the past, I just had to have a little sign that says I’m a therapist and people lined up at the door… now it has to look branded, it has to look trustworthy.” — Brett (17:33)

• Framework Application:

  • Comparing one-on-one therapy to digital scale, Brett set out to package the relationship transformation process for broader access (27:08–29:42).
  • Aim: Masterclass for entrepreneurs, ongoing support, and courses to serve varied needs in relationship conflict resolution.

6. High-Touch, Entrepreneur-Specific Coaching

• Niche Strategy:

  • Decided with Ashley’s help to target entrepreneurs specifically, combining his business and therapy background to uniquely address the pressures on entrepreneurial marriages (30:32–34:10).

• Quote:

  “My mind kind of lives in the business world and relationships, and those two things are very closely joined together… so it only makes sense that I work on the relationships of entrepreneurs.” — Brett (33:54)

7. Mini Masterclass: Relationship Conflict

Ashley fields audience-inspired, rapid-fire questions. Key takeaways include:

• Conflict Cycles Are Unavoidable:

  • Even playful interactions (“Do you love me?”) can become micro-conflicts due to underlying attachment needs (35:13–36:03).

  “Relationships, human relationships, are too complex… we just can’t prevent those lightning strikes from happening.” — Brett (35:51)

• Aftermath Conversations:

  • The goal isn’t to prevent conflict, but to become skilled at repairing and clarifying intentions after rupture (39:53).

  “The goal is the successful navigating through of conflict. And if you can do that well, you will have less conflict.” — Brett (39:53)

• Protective Emotions:

  • Playful or defensive responses often mask deeper needs for reassurance and connection (37:28–38:52).

• Reinforce with Reassurance:

  • Explicitly communicate importance and appreciation; don’t assume your partner knows (41:24–42:03).

  “Reassurance is the oil of the machine… our ability to state that out loud from a genuine place is so powerful.” — Brett (41:26)

• Sample Aftermath Script (For Listeners):

  “Just so you know, when I did that, here’s what I was really feeling…” — Ashley (46:51)
  “You’re so important to me. That’s why we’re having that.” — Brett (47:02)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Hiring Experts:

  “You can learn all day long for free… but you get an expert, and it just accelerates everything.” — Brett (04:25)

• On Google Ads Mastery:

  “I went from $250 a lead to $43 overnight. It’s been life-changing ever since.” — Brett (10:05)

• On Brick-and-Mortar vs. Online Trust:

  “With brick and mortar, there’s intrinsic trust within that model… You go into the online space, and everything kind of changes.” — Brett (15:56)

• On Navigating Conflict:

  “The goal is the successful navigating through of conflict. And if you can do that well, you will have less conflict.” — Brett (39:53)

• On Reassurance:

  “Reassurance is the oil of the machine.” — Brett (41:26)

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Important Timestamps

• Brett’s Introduction & Journey – 00:52–06:53
• Google Ads Experience & Results – 07:29–12:55
• Online Funnel Challenges and Audit – 14:26–15:48
• Marriage Essentials’ Story & Approach – 17:50–29:42
• Entrepreneur Relationship Coaching – 30:32–34:10
• Rapid-Fire Relationship Questions – 34:32–46:10
• Final Business Advice on Ads – 47:23–49:18

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Final Advice to Business Owners

“Ads allow for you to really understand where the problems are in your business. They bring volume into your business, and you’re going to be able to grow… If you take that information and learn from it and apply it to your business, you’re going to be able to grow.” — Brett (47:39)

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Links

• Marriage Essentials: [Linked in show notes]
• Learn more about Brett’s programs and marriage coaching for entrepreneurs

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Summary Prepared by Podcast Summarizer (2026). All actionable wisdom and memorable moments, minus the fluff.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Win with Paid Ads podcast for small business owners, entrepreneurs, and really anyone who has anything you want more people to find. Whether you're starting from ground zero or scaling an eight figure business, you are exactly who this podcast was created for. Because you being the best kept secret helps no one. Right? That's why in every episode, I'll show you how you can use paid ads to hit your goals 10 times sooner. It's time you finally learn how to win with paid ads. You or someone on your team can do this. I'll show you how to score and be known by more. Let's get started. Welcome to the Win with Paid Ads podcast. I'm so excited to introduce to you Brett Nicola. He is a therapist. He's actually in our top tier program and he is a seven figure entrepreneur. Like I said, he's a therapist. You have going on 29 people.

[B]

We're going on 29, going on 30.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Plus our admin. So we have a team of 35 in total.

[A]

35 on his team. And so your practice is in Buffalo, Minnesota, and you're like the most well known therapist there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're basically famous.

[B]

Yep. In my hometown. Sure.

[A]

Hometown famous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, Brett, how did we find each other? Let's tell everybody kind of the story.

[B]

Yeah. So I might be unique in this, that I found you organically on Instagram. I don't know if I've ever told you this. Yeah, hold on.

[A]

Wait. Okay, keep going.

[B]

Yep. So I was trying to figure out how to market my online business. Right. Right. When I launched Marriage Essentials. And I put into the search bar small business marketing person or something like that, small business marketer. And I just followed like a handful of accounts, maybe 10 accounts that were like marketing for small business. And eventually you just kind of like kept showing up in my stories and my feed. Because what you were offering was like engaging. It made sense. It resonated everyone else that I followed. I don't even know where to find them in my account anymore. They've disappeared. Right. And so then it was through that that I heard about your challenge and I thought about it for maybe a day and I was like, no, I'll go to the challenge and just see what this is all about. And spent a week inside your Win with paid ads challenge. And by Friday, I was like, no, this is what I'm seeing is what is there. It's legit.

[A]

Yeah. And you were quiet too.

[B]

Oh, totally.

[A]

I saw Brett, like every day during the challenge. He would be on camera at his desk. And I was like, I wonder what he's thinking. Because I couldn't tell because you were kind of. It was like, focused face. Like, you weren't just sitting there, like, smiling. You were listening with his focused face. And I could see you sometimes think. And I was like, I wonder what this guy's thinking. Because on camera every day, and you just so happen to be. On my first screen of Zoom because there were, like, pages, and I'm like, you were on the first screen every day, and so I could see you. And I always look at reactions. I was like, I wonder what he's thinking. Also, I didn't know that you didn't find me from an ad. I'm pretty sure I told Instagram today. I'm like, brett found me from an ad. But here's what I bet. Like, here's the other thing that I don't think people realize subconsciously is I think sometimes when you do see stuff, even if it's like, me showing backup, like, some of it could have been an ad, and you might not have been, like, stark contrast. This is an ad for sure.

[B]

The Win with Paid Ads challenge. I was getting your ads for that. That converted me into the challenge. That's good, 100%. But, yeah, then by Thursday or Friday, I was like, no, I think I'm gonna. I'm gonna get this. And I knew that I wanted the touch point with. With you. Like, courses are great and everything, but I was going for, like, speed and efficiency. I wanted someone who could actually, like, get eyeballs on my business. And so somehow I missed the hall of Fame offer on the call, and I was like, yeah, I want to purchase the Mastermind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember, like, I was ready to. To commit to that. And all of a sudden, I got a voice memo from Ashley Brock. And I was like, okay. And I think it was you specifically. And that was, like, a little bit shocking to me. I was like, okay. She's like, live here. And said my name. So it got my attention. And she's like, I'm just wondering why you didn't do the hall of Fame. And I'm like, what's the hall of Fame? And then you kind of talked me through it, and that was what I was looking for. I was looking for, like, high touch accelerated. I wanted to, like, really have an expert in my business. And I've known that, you know, you can learn all day long for free, and that's what you're going to be doing. Learning all day long for free, for Free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you get an expert, and it just accelerates everything. Like, I think of our VIP day today, you know, like, the amount of things that we accomplish today. I know for a fact it takes me months and years to get to that level of growth within our business. And that's what I wanted. That's what I was excited to pay for. And when you reached out and let me know that there was a third option, a third tier, I knew that's what I wanted to do. Honestly, I had to stretch for it. Like, when I made the purchase, I was like, I felt like I was rolling the dice a little bit and saying, hey, like, if this doesn't work out, like, who knows what's. What's going to happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Financially. But I did. And as we've talked today, it's. It's paid off.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Big time.

[A]

I remember I like, because I think you spoke in the challenge, like, I think you had a question or there was something. There was some moment where I called on you because I got to hear you speak.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And because that's when you said you had a. I think you said you had a seven figure business and your therapist. And that's how I knew, because I wouldn't have reached out with. To you if I had had no contact.

[B]

You called. Oh, you called out on me or called me out and asked me like, what, like, what are you thinking?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I think it was. It was after we had voice memo. It was on the last day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

I just remember. I remember saying, he's a therapist. I looked at your business. I'd done the research, and I was like, this person is perfect. And I remember because the hall of fame was only for seven and eight figure entrepreneurs. And so somewhere, whether it was your business assessment form or you. I was like, he seemed like I looked at your content. I was like, he seems like a great guy. I'd already had. I don't know if I told you this, but I already had one of my first clients that. That purchased any program was a therapist. And so I was like, gosh, I just know I could do it. He had multiple locations. He was so great. And then we had other therapists come along, and I was like, I know that I can help a therapist, especially someone that's like, already growing like you are. So I really just wanted to work with you. And I was like, what if I just told him, like, hey, I think this could go really well.

[B]

Yeah. And it has, it has. It's gone really well.

[A]

So you have this two. So the thing about Brett is Brett has two sides of his business. So I guess we should probably tell everybody the win that's come from just the Google side with your in person brick and mortar. And then the challenges that have come with the online side. Cause they're two different experiences that you've had. And I think it's like people always wonder, well, will this work for my business? And it's like the speed with which it will work and the steps you have to take for it to work are different for everybody.

[B]

100%.

[A]

So let's talk about kind of where you were at with Google Ads before, where you are now. And then let's talk about some of the challenges with the online stuff and what marriage essentials is.

[B]

So back in 2019, my wife actually, as I was building my initial therapy practice, I was trying to figure out how to market back then. I knew like, that was. I knew that leads are the biggest inhibitor to growth within a business. I knew I had to get leads. And she took it upon herself to. She came across an ad for a Google Ads company. And she's like, why don't you invest in this? And at that time I was like, she doesn't like to spend money, but she was suggesting that I pay six grand for a Google Ads course. And I was like, are you. This is your suggestion? And she's like, no, I think that's what you gotta do. So I invested in that at that time and it grew my business to the point that I could afford you, which is like the good news of it.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

And what I found was like, our leads were kind of just continually to. They're going up like every year it's a little bit more expensive to get leads. And then I ended up buying a new business. So I had Pivotal Approach, which is a solo practice. So it's just me working there. And then I bought Solas Counseling Associates and I took what I was doing in Pivotal Approach and tried to bring it over to solace and it just completely blew up in the bad way.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah, because. Because at Pivotal Approach I had such a, like, I call it, like, I don't know what you'd call it. Mining or farming or cultivating that Google Ads account.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had like millions of negative keyword things in there.

[A]

You cleaned it up for a while?

[B]

I'd clean it up for a while. And so when I, when I transferred Google Ads accounts, I lost all that history and I was starting basically over from scratch. And so at Pivotal Approach, my leads were at like $80 a lead. And I went to Solus and I was like, at 250. And I was like, I know I'll be able to get it down with time, but it was, it was costing me quite a bit. And. And so then I purchased your program and within a month, I was down in Atlanta here at Launcher Ads Live

[A]

and one of our events.

[B]

Which is one of the events. Yeah. And I remember there's like a breakout session and I was like, patiently kind of waiting for Ashley to come to our table because you're kind of moving around. And Caitlin, who's on your team, she came by and she's like, can I help you? And I was like, I'm just waiting for Ashley. And she's like, well, like, while we're waiting here, why don't you show me kind of what your question is? And I was like, oh, it's about a Google Ads account. And she said, yeah, show me the account. You know, I was like, I thought like, Ashley's the person I need to talk to here. And she literally, on the back of a napkin, kind of drew out like this structure that you teach and kind of showed me within my Google Ads accounts, like some of the adjustments that I had to make. So that was on brand or in line with what you teach. And, and I know that day was July 17th of 2025. I went from 250 in a lead to 43 overnight. It was like. And it's been life changing ever since because what that allowed me to do is accelerate the volume of leads that comes into my business, like big time. And it's just become a snowball effect. Like, I was, I was just spending like maybe 100 to $200. No, it was less than that. It was $50 a day at that point on Google Ads. And as we've gotten traction and leads and we've been able to grow providers, we've been able to increase that ad spend. And it's created like this snowball effect where the way I can explain it is that when we were just spending $50 a day on ads, we were only showing up some of the time when people would search for like a therapist near me. Well, now we've been able to increase our ad spend so much that like any fish that swims by, we have, we're there, we're present, letting them know that we're in business and we can help them. And so Google Ads has served us. It's definitely served our customers our clients because they're looking for high quality mental health care near them. And that is what my company, Solas Counseling Associates, specializes in. I don't see myself as someone who's there to necessarily care for the clients, even though that's my highest priority. I'm there to care for the therapists

[A]

so that they can care for therapists

[B]

so that they can. And so my job as the leader of that company is to make sure that every therapist is cared for and is highly educated and highly qualified for their role. And that's why I love being in a position with Google Ads to tell anybody who comes by who's searching for a therapist near them that we have the best. We have the most highly qualified mental health professionals near them. And I can do that with Google Ads.

[A]

So awesome. Brett on the hall of fame calls is like, yeah, so it's still happening. My favorite thing is when you're like, there are other people saying Google Ads are expensive. Google Ads don't work, man. Things are down. And it's just cool because when you can really refine your ads to the way that with the method that we do and you refine and give feedback, there is a point that comes where it's like you are owning the market. And the only reason that someone's saying it's expensive is because they literally just don't know what they're doing. And so it's really cool when you actually can master it. So it's been like, so cheesy, but true. Like, it is so, like, it just makes me so happy. I get so excited when I hear, like, you're like, I'm hiring another one. Because I just know that they can have full capacity. That's my favorite thing. So that's the like, in person, brick and mortar side. Then we had the online side. Now if you're listening to this episode or watching, I have something you're gonna look forward to. Brett doesn't know this yet, but at the end of this episode, I'm gonna rapid fire some, like, relationship questions. Cause we did a poll on Instagram today and it was like, what do you wanna hear? And it was like, really real relationship conflict. And I was like, well, perfect. I could just share some ideas or prompts for him. We can see what Brett says will be helpful for you. So we'll have that at the end. So keep watching until we get there. I think the other thing would be helpful for other people to hear is if they don't have a brick and mortar and they have online it's been a little bit more of a struggle to get the online thing going, and we can just be. Can we share the numbers? I think we've spent about 5,000 and gotten about three. So, like, it's not going as well as we wanted to.

[B]

It ain't scalable.

[A]

It's not. Yeah, that part's not scalable. But what we did today in Brett's VIP day is we have audited every piece of his funnel. And Brett and I agree, so I know he agrees with me that there was a lot that we needed to just clean up. And at the end of the day, for all of you listening, the biggest takeaway from our VIP day with Brett is like, how can we make it simple and clear to convert and just build trust? It's like, trust, trust, trust. And so we really have today started over with your funnel. You had some, like, foundation. So we're not, like, breaking the whole house down. We' rebuilding it, Restructuring. We're, like, renovating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you had one funnel, and it started with a low ticket, like, for every. People ask me, like, what price should I do? And my opinion is, at the beginning, you were doing a 27 funnel, and your opinion that you shared earlier was that with 27, you wanted people to just show up and, like, be invested. That was your desire.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I. Although I agree and I do people believe that people who pay pay attention. Well, at the beginning, I just want Brett to have all this volume of all these people that are learning his frameworks and getting feedback and changing, and it's all this feedback and validation. And because we don't have that quite yet for marriage essentials, I was like, we need to start at zero, and then we'll charge later. So how are you feeling about your current funnel? And if you could tell everybody, like, what are three reasons you would say? If you reflecting back that you're like, here's why I think this didn't work so well and what we're, like, changing about it just to help people.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I think of, like, solace, counseling, associates. Like, there's trust that's kind of intrinsic within that model.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I'm in the community. Right. Some of these people, like, see that I'm part of that business. We went to high school together or whatever it is. Right. Like, there's intrinsic trust with a brick and mortar in your community. You go into the online space, and everything kind of changes. Where people don't know you people, you're not within their community. And so there is way More trust that needs to be established and how important like every touch point of that online experience is to establish trust and help the person on the other end who doesn't know you in the same way that they might within the community. And, and they're looking at your like

[A]

online validity, not your in person 100%. Like I think a lot of these people, they don't know that you're the most well known therapist, you know, until we tell them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and so that's what I felt like today was really going and doing the hard work of just looking at every angle of that online business and making sure that everything's consistent, that the messaging is clear, so that when someone does experience my company online, they can trust that I am going to deliver on my product, that what they are looking for is what they're going to get. I think like that clear messaging is something that I've undervalued because in the past I basically just had to have a little sign that says I'm a therapist and people lined up at the door.

[A]

That's so true.

[B]

And then like the sign didn't have to look cute.

[A]

Yeah. And now it's like it has to look branded, it has to look trustworthy. And I don't even think we said this for everybody listening or watching. What is Marriage Essentials? So like what do you do at Marriage Essentials that's different from Soless?

[B]

Yeah. So back in 2016, I graduated with my marriage and family therapy degree. I became licensed and I've worked with a variety of different mental health, a variety of different like mental health services I've done. But I found that my passion really was within relationships. And as that developed, I found that I enjoyed and was working with more and more couples and marriages and relationships. So people would come in, they weren't necessarily presenting with their spouse or with the person that they were struggling with in relationships with. They would come in on their own. And I found that even when they were there on their own, we could intentionally impact that relationship in a positive way.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And I didn't find that out by happenstance. Like even my education and getting a master's degree in marriage and family therapy, I felt like I was under equipped to help them. And so I was really interested and curious about them. And I reached out to a mentor and I said, I have these people coming in, I enjoy working with them. I feel like I'm kind of helpful, but I felt like a referee in a lot of ways. Like I was just kind of topical. And, like, I think you're wrong. I think you're right. You know, maybe try this, maybe try that. And it felt, like, productive in some ways. But I was finding that we weren't changing the dynamic. We weren't changing the pattern. And so they would come in every week with basically the same story and different details, and, wow, that's good. And I was like, okay, that's what I want to actually, like, figure out how to resolve. I want them to get rid of me. I want them to come in, see me for a period of time and say, brett, we've changed our relationship. I don't need you to referee me anymore. And I was reaching out. I was asking my mentors, like, what do we do to actually change relational dynamics? And they pointed me in the direction of, like, attachment theory and. And some of Sue Johnson's work. And I was like, I just went through a whole bunch of school. I'm good. And they're like, if you want to change relationships, I'd look into that stuff. So I followed their advice. And when I was sitting in those courses, I thought I would be thinking about my clients, but I was thinking about my marriage, you know, the relationship with my wife, and things in there began to make sense. I didn't even think that we had a terrible marriage, but we definitely had an unsolved conflict cycle. And I can see how if I didn't have that, like, divine intervention, I feel like my marriage today would be much different than it is right now. And so, as I began to recognize the conflict cycle within my own marriage and I figured out how to solve it, I was like, well, I'm going to be the first guinea pig to this. This was exciting to sign up for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I'm like, oh, I'm going to see these professors and these people who are book smart if what they're saying is actually effective, because I found that it's not always the case and so brought it home, started doing it with my wife.

[A]

Did you tell her that you were doing it, or were you like, I'm going to secretly try this?

[B]

Well, I told her, like, I was coming up, like, I was learning something really exciting in this conflict cycle. And she, like, she. She's so kind and loving. She lent her ear to me. Like, she's a good listener.

[A]

But I got to meet her, and she's amazing.

[B]

She is. She's. She's the backbone of. Of my whole life. So.

[A]

Because you have eight children.

[B]

We have eight children together. And she's just Amazing at anything she does, but she listened well. And yet we just knowing that information and talking about it didn't change the dynamic. It was until I, like, took what I was learning and I started doing it. And that's the framework that I now teach. But it was when I decided, like, you know what? I'm going to follow through on, not just talking about it, but doing these different interventions that we talk about that she was like, this is different. And, yeah, like, she softened to me in a way that she never had before. We were able to, like, navigate through things that in the past would leave us both just really confused and really hurt. And neither of us really understood why it was happening. But as I began to follow through on kind of the framework that I teach and implemented it into my relationship, I remember one of the first times that I was able to do it, we were in a. In a conflict cycle. We're in that, like, moment in our relationship conflict cycle.

[A]

So that people understand. What does that even really mean? Like, is the same fights over and over.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, it happens, like, you know it when you feel it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, here we go again.

[B]

Yep. It's like, you can be having the best dinner in the world. You're on a date, and then, you know, I open up my mouth and say something stupid, and I know it as soon as, like, it happens like that. I could see it in her face. Right. Kind of her response. And then I feel it, like, the tightness in my chest.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And it was like, one of those moments where typically in the past, what would happen is I would just exit stage left. And in my mind, like, all I heard was, like, well, if she doesn't like me, like, I can remove myself from the situation. Like, easy solution. But it just made it worse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she would say things like, you get so cold and uncaring. And that made me want to run further away. And it wasn't like. It was like we both were trying to fix it in the best way we knew how. And it just, like, it was so painful for me, and I knew it was so painful for her. So she was sitting at our kitchen island, and we were in one of the. I don't even know what the topic was anymore, but I remember saying, like, brett, instead of, like, running away and thinking, you're the problem, you might be the solution here. And it was like, that ability to kind of, like, believe that through kind of the framework that I teach, that allowed for me to, like, just go up to her. And I remember putting my hand on her shoulder and just saying, like, I don't know, like, what happened here? I think we're confused, and I just want to figure out how to get through it with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember, like, feeling her body just like. Like melt like butter in my arms or, like, in my hand there. And it was like. It was like the first time we broke that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That conflict cycle. And. And it's just been a life changing. It happened again after that, and we had to, like, keep going back to, like, the drawing board to break this and solve it and do something different than the old dance because it becomes a habit. It's such a habit.

[A]

So it's like. It's like you can break the habit for a minute, but then it's like. Then the old habits come back. It's like having to go back and

[B]

help your brain believe that, like, that's the new way to navigate through that pattern when it shows up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It's. There's a process that we teach that I learned at that point and implemented it into our relationship. And that is when, like, things began to shift. Where in the past, like, that would be a. Two or three days of just, like, tension and, like, chilliness in our relationship

[A]

until you just let it go.

[B]

Until you just let it go. And then it's just prime for the next. The. The next time that that feeling shows up, it's like, here it is again. Like, and it. Nothing was solved the last time, won't get solved the next time. And you want to hold on to it because, like, that maybe is the way you solve it, is you hold on to it. And the framework just teaches that that isn't the way to really do that. And there is a better way. And what I found is that, you know, when they look at, like, relationships that thrive and relationships that struggle is. There's one primary difference. And it's not like the topics that they're in conflict about. It's not like, how much they love each other or their financial status or how many dates they go on. Like, that's not the measure that clearly differentiates the thriving couples from the struggling couples. It's how they navigate through those moments that really differentiates them. So that's what I started honing in on. I was like, I want to be the best marriage coach for relationships that struggle with their conflict cycle, because I know that it's life changing. I know it's relationship changing. I've seen how it's impacted the relationship with my wife and how together we're able to successfully be a team and parent our kids. And more than anything, I just want. I want to be that strong unit for her, for me and for our kids, because it's just such a critical part of that whole dynamic.

[A]

And so now you've been able to do that in your marriage, and then you've helped, like thousands of people at this point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you have. What we built today was how can we get people to learn from you just in a setting, and then you have your course where they can learn. And then now you have a way where people can actually get that, like real time coaching and support with what, what their conflict is, because everybody has a different one.

[B]

Yeah. So I started teaching this once I was able to implement it and I saw the results like, that it made me like a believer. And it was like, you're sold. It was the first time I was like, sold in that way within the mental health field. Whereas, like, this process has changed my life. And so I was able to go to like, couple after couple, and they're like, this is what we're dealing with. And I'd be like, totally, it's what you're dealing with. And this is how we understand it through the conflict cycle. And then the next couple would come in and they're like, this is what we're dealing with. Completely different than the last couple. And I'd say, totally, that's what you're dealing with, and this is how we understand it through the conflict cycle. And then I realized, like, I'm repeating myself to client after client after client, same process, same kind of framework and tools. And I was like, there's got to be a way to package this and deliver it to thousands of more marriages than I can do one on one, hour after hour. And that's when the seed for marriage essentials was planted, where I'm like, I've got to develop a company that gives what's changed my relationship with my wife Kelsey, that's changing the relationships within my community. And I want everybody to be able to access that because it literally is. Is the, the backbone of society. It's within families and relationships. And we've got to figure out how to communicate with each other in a way that doesn't prevent the connection that's possible because it's, it's all in the connection. The power of the, the conflict cycle is this. That, like, think of, think of like someone in your life who was. They were best friends, they were really Close. And someone said something, someone did something, and they never talked again. That's a conflict cycle. And the biggest bummer about that is that it really comes down to their inability to, like, navigate through that and get back to clarity, get back to reassurance, get back to that feeling of love and care that is possible in that relationship. But what's happened is a rupture has happened within that relationship. They don't know how to repair it and bring clarity to that. And so because of their coping mechanisms, they've just separated and they've lost each other. And there's too many relationships where people truly care about each other, but the conflict cycle has divided them and they don't know how to find each other.

[A]

Yeah. It's so true. I think we've all probably had that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I feel like you feel because of what you've experienced, how I feel because of what I've experienced with ads.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you saw there was a problem and you saw the solution, you're like, oh, my God, everybody could have it. Yeah, that's how I feel like with you with your Google Ads. I'm like, someone's like, google doesn't work. I'm like, I know that sounds like Brett. Like, Brett's life has changed now because we made some tweets to his dad. It's like, I have to get this out. So that conviction that you have, that's why we were sitting there today. I was like, you gotta keep going. You, like, can't stop. Because not only will it be fulfilling for you and your family, but it will also help so many people, because someone's gotta teach this method. Cause when me and Meredith, when we hear you explain it, we're like, that's it. That's exactly it. That's what just happened. Which is why I thought it would be cool if shared with people some rapid fire questions. Are you down for it?

[B]

Let's try it.

[A]

So I guess before we transition to that, the last thing I'll say is our goal now is to take Brett's marriage essentials, and his goal is to work with entrepreneurs specifically. That's the thing we didn't talk about is one of the things that we kind of came, that came from our hall of Fame event was we all help each other. And we're like, wait, Brett, why don't you just do entrepreneurs? And that's actually one of the things. Because every business, every single business needs a thing that differentiates you from everything else out there. So when I think about Hoka's shoes. And I think about Nike shoes, there are some ways that hoka's tennis shoes literally do look and feel different than Nikes. They have a differentiator. And so I feel like your differentiator is, you know, the challenges that come in a marriage as a result of having someone in the business. So what we're doing with marriage essentials is Brett is a marriage coach for entrepreneurs. And so his goal is to have this masterclass in his funnel that ultimately lead to the programs where people can learn, which apparently, Anita, I think we all could benefit watching. I mean, we all are in a relationship, it's impossible to not have conflict. And like, it's nearly impossible because even conflict we talk about, every long term,

[B]

important relationship has conflict to some degree. How you navigate it looks different. Right. Some people navigate it with words and actions. Other people navigate it with avoidance and withdrawal. Yeah.

[A]

But either way, there's like a conflict. I actually had. I had this woman who is a psychologist that I've been meeting with, and she told me yesterday that there. So there was a little bit of a moment of conflict with someone on my team. And I was like, hey, I can read this person really good because I'm very perceptive. And I was like, there's something going on there. And here's the scenario. And she was like. And I was like, I think I'm just gonna let it go. She'll. She'll come down, I'll come down, we'll be good. And she was like, I really believe that conflict belongs in the open, not behind closed doors. So she was like, I think you should go have a conversation and just like, bring it up. And I did. And it was so the right move led to connection. And it did. It led to connection. And it was so good. And I was so against doing that. And then when I did it, I was like, that was the right move.

[B]

If you do it the right way.

[A]

If you do it the right way. And I didn't have my method in front of me, but I did, I did level with her. I did share the humanization because I had actually, I think. So here's what happened. She had made a mistake. And then I made this mistake.

[B]

And I was like, classic conflict cycle.

[A]

Classic. She did something. And the way I responded to it, I hated it looking back. But I did respond like that. Cause I was mad, but I just like, I was so self aware of how bad I handled it. I was like, I've apologized publicly, but I've not apologized, like one on one. And So I was that when I heard that leaving it in the open. It's like every other place I've worked in other relationships or friendships that are surface level. They do. They have resentment or conflict behind the scenes, but they don't bring it in the open. And I just feel like it doesn't belong there. It belongs on the call.

[B]

And you had what we call an aftermath conversation. So after that initial, like, confusion, you went back and you reassured and repaired.

[A]

I did, yeah.

[B]

That's cool. So marriage essentials does. It's kind of the culmination of my life. Cause I've had multiple started, sold, bought, grown, multiple six, and now a seven figure business. And in different industries. Like, I was a house painter.

[A]

Yeah, you did painting. You had. You had the therapy business.

[B]

Like, these are two solopreneur. And then I bought a group practice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so my mind kind of lives in the business world and relationships, and those two things are very closely joined together as well. So. Yeah, it only makes sense that I work on the relationships of entrepreneurs. Like, that's who I am.

[A]

Yeah. I think it's so good. Like, even at lunch when we were talking about, like, different things and struggles with like, starting something new and growing it and wanting it to work, like that's a whole relational situation. And so there's so many people that are navigating it. I think you having your angle is just so good. So I feel like it would be good if I rapid fired a few questions. Okay. And you can, like, coach me. Like, just.

[B]

We'll do it. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

A real raw conversation.

[A]

Yep. It's gonna be great. Oh, Lord, here we go. So the first thing is, I told you earlier in our examples, as we were trying to give Brett some ad ideas, one of the things that I do with Kyle is I'll just walk up to him and be like. I'll just stand there straight and I'll be like, hi. I'm like, do you love me? I can all say. And he's like, yeah. And it's like he starts going into the list of all the things he does to prove that he loves me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, I know. Phil's like, do you love me? Like, it's like he, like, can't believe that I'm asking him that because of the things that he does. So tell me, like, what? What could I do? Why is that happening? What could I do about it? Like, help me.

[B]

Well, even something like that, that probably doesn't end up in, like, significant conflict. Would you agree yeah, it's still a conflict cycle.

[A]

He's frustrated by it.

[B]

You know, like that feeling that you get when he can't seem to respond in the way that you want him to. And. And there's probably a feeling that's happening within him where it's like, I must not be measuring up to what she's looking for if she's asking this question. And so on both sides, there's like some confusion that happens there. What we know about that is you're not going to be able to ever prevent that. Relationships, human relationships are too complex, too layered that we just can't prevent, like, those lightning strikes from happening.

[A]

I was the lightning strike.

[B]

It happens kind of instantly for both of you. Right. Like, almost like that. You both are like, whoa. Like something kind of shifted here. The energy shifted.

[A]

Yeah, because we just had a great breakfast. Yeah, so we just had a great breakfast. And I just go into the closet while he's getting dressed. I'm like, you love me.

[B]

And. And typically what happens is like, we're. We're looking for reassurance, but we're doing it in protected ways. My conflict cycles are always like, the reach for reassurance in protected ways. So what that means is, like, underneath that, like, do you love me? There was like this little feeling of, like, wanting reassurance and wanting, like, just that security of him, like putting his arms around you and saying like, you're my boo. And you. You wanted that. You didn't know how to express it clearly. Right. And the way that you did it was by saying, do you love me? Kind of in like this teasy, cheeky way, which feels safer. It feels like, like less vulnerable than saying, like, I just. I want your arms around me. I want, like, just to know, like, I'm solid here. And. And so you do it in this protected way, which causes some confusion on his end because what you're saying there is like, I'm not sure. I guess your exact language was, do you love me? And you're kind of like, teasy cheeky. And I'm guessing for him it's like, I must not be delivering my message. Right. If she's questioning this, there must be something.

[A]

I actually think that is how he feels. Yeah.

[B]

There must be something that I'm missing and I'm not doing enough of. If she has this question, because everything in my life that I do is to get this girl's attention and she's questioning if I care about her. He doesn't see that. It's like, from this like, vulnerable spot within you. He just takes it on, and it feels like a projection onto him and what he's doing. So then he goes into, like, this defensive posture, right? He's like, I take out the garbage. I clean up the yard, I mow it, right? I bring the kids to T ball. Like, he wants to show you like, I am. Like, I am doing a good job here. Because that's what he's feeling. He's feeling like he's not doing a good job maybe. And. But his way of, like, rather than saying woof, that kind of, like, leaves me a little bit worried that I'm missing the mark, right? You're so important to me, Ashley, and I want you to see, like, everything I'm doing in my life is for you. He doesn't know how to say that. He's saying, what the heck? Like, how am I missing this? And it's, like, a scary feeling for him. So he moves into, like, this defensive posture, right? And so you're kind of like, we'd call it the pursuer here. You're trying to, like, fix this, like, feeling of security that you long for, that sense of him caring for you. And he moves into, like, this withdraw position, which is a defensive position. He's not physically running away from you, but he's defending himself. He's trying to prove to you that he's enough.

[A]

So my move is, instead of saying the playful thing, saying the thing, which is probably why I was coming to

[B]

him in the first place, here's what I'd say, Ashley. Like, I don't know that you have to change that, because it can work where it's like, do you love me? And he's like, yeah. And it can be a sweet moment, but every once in a while, it. It happens that it, like, causes confusion. So I do the same thing that you did with your. Your. Your employee or whatever it was, I would have an aftermath conversation, right? And so, like, the goal of all of this isn't prevention. It's. It's clearing up confusion when it happens. It's repairing ruptures when they happen. And what we know is if we get good at the aftermath conversation, then the frequency of those confusing moments decreases, and the intensity of those confusing moments decreases. So everyone thinks, like, the goal is prevention of conflict, and we find that the goal is the successful navigating through of conflict. And if you can do that, well, you will have less conflict.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's true. I could totally see going back and being like, hey, the real reason I Asked. That was just like you hadn't hugged me in like an hour.

[B]

And I'll give you one more tip there.

[A]

Give it to me.

[B]

Is. Is like, hey, you're my man. You know that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in that interaction, this is what was going on for me. I was like, part of me just like, has like this desire every once in a while just to know, like, I'm solid with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't, I can't always hold on to that. And so that's what's happened there. But I just want to figure out how to navigate through those moments and reassure each other in a way that works for both of us.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Yeah. But we lead with reassurance. I say, like, reassurance is the oil of the machine. And I think it's one of the most communicating it. Yeah.

[A]

Because we just assume they know it.

[B]

Yeah. Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're important to me. You matter to me. You're my, you're my person. Right. I choose you. I want to navigate through these moments with you. I want to get on to. I want to get to the other side of this with you. Like, our ability to state that out loud to someone from a genuine place is so powerful and we can like, lead with that. I think to your point, most people just assume that the other person knows that and they, they don't. Like, I think of my four year old boy every time. I'm like, you're my trooper. You know, like, you're such a hard worker. I appreciate everything you're doing around the house. Like, you can see it. He's not as protected. He's more vulnerable as a child. So you can just see he, like, grows three sizes as you communicate that.

[A]

I see that with Easton.

[B]

Yep. And I think we all do that. Right. But as we get older and more nuanced and more sophisticated as adults, we try to hide that a little bit more.

[A]

Yeah, we do it for the kids, but it's like we're grown adults. Like, I don't have to tell you this. You know what I mean?

[B]

But I think in our most important relationships, we're intrinsically insecure. And so to honestly communicate how important someone is to us, it's not placating. It's finding the ability to, like, say, like, you're my backbone. Like, I don't know how I'd get through this without you. Right. Like, and that to come from a genuine space is never underutilized.

[A]

Okay. So I think the last thing I wanted because that was so helpful. Let's kind of take what happened after that. Because, like, part of your cycle is like, okay, so, like, one of the first things, it's like there was a triggered feeling. Right. And then I communicated something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I got. Let's just pretend, because Kyle and I, one thing we really. I think we really do good with Aftermath. I think there's a way that we could for sure be better. But, like, after that happened, then he goes and he's like, what are you talking about? Like, then I'm like, oh, I know you love me. And it's just playful. But then I do walk away, and I'm like, I still didn't get the thing that I really wanted. So then sometimes I think every relationship can do this for a minute. We're like, that annoyed me. Or like you have an emotion. That's. What did you call it? A protective emotion. Like, it basically, in a way, I feel like I was trying to cover the fact that I didn't get exactly what I wanted. And then I get frustrated with him that he's about to go do the tractor thing or. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yep, I do, 100%.

[A]

And of course, I still love him more than anything, but of course I get a little aggravated because I didn't get a thing that I wanted. And I think other people have experienced that. So then what's that called? And then what do you do?

[B]

Yeah, like. Like, we call that, like, your attachment longing. Right. And so sometimes it feels like your attachment longing is left unmet, or it's like you aren't able to access it. And that's like, an alarming feeling for us. So what we want to be able to do is, like, realize, like, there was a longing there that didn't feel accessible, that wasn't being met. And this is how we, like, regulate. So we move out of, like, that frustrated feeling into that softer feeling of like, there's a part of me that just wants to know that I'm important to him, that he cares about me, whatever that, like, longing is. And I think, like, getting language to. That allows for us to then come back and we reveal it. Right. It's not that they are doing it wrong. We reveal kind of our experience, that underlying attachment longing and that primary emotion. So it would be walking in, reassuring him, letting him know that he's important to you and that there are times when where you long to just know that you're safe with him, that he cares about you, that you're enough for him, or whatever that, like, longing is.

[A]

Those specific words are the thing it feels like that's like something I'm noticing. It's like just a specific phrase right into your eyes. Like the thing that we don't get as often unless you know.

[B]

Yeah. And everyone practice, everyone kind of has their own way that they experience their attachment, longing, and kind of doing the work to figure out what that is for you. But then you can come back and bring clarity. Right. Like, that initial approach of like, kind of that puppy dog, do you love me? Was confusing to him. Right. And so now you've kind of done your work to clarify what it was that you're actually doing there.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And you can bring clarity in the aftermath and really help him understand that he's important to you, that he is doing enough, and that there's a part of you that isn't able to hold on to his love. Not because he's doing it wrong, but because we're insecure and we're always kind of worried about the things that are most important to us slipping away.

[A]

You know, Brett, I'm going to come home from the VIP day. I'm like, I love you. I'm so proud of you. You're everything I want. Like, I'm just going to go. He's like, whoa. I'm like, yeah, we had a VIP day with therapist today. Okay.

[B]

And as you talk about this, like, this is. This is what we do in, like, the coaching. Like, when you change your dance, there's going to be initial resistance. Like, even if someone, like, really likes it, they're going to be like, this isn't normal. Right.

[A]

That's not how you normally respond or what you would normally say.

[B]

Can I trust this? Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not going to let this come in because what if I let it come in and mean something and then it never happens again? So there's, like, an initial resistance that we have to, like, kind of navigate through and do it consistently and from a genuine spot where it's like, is this person important to me? Yeah, they are. How do you. How can you communicate that genuinely?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What are some of those, like, internal experiences that you have? How can you put language to that and show that clearly? And. And so, yeah, you can. You can try these things, and you'll probably get, like, some. What we'd call resistance. And it can be like, they will. They will laugh at you. They will kind of push you away. They won't go down with you. They'll stay up in, like, a joking place because they. That's their cover. That's a protective emotion. It's like, what if I go deep and I get hurt? I don't trust that yet.

[A]

So. Good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you want more from Brett like this, the master class is where they can start.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So little. Little things like that can make an adjustment. Like, truly, now I have something tactical that I can say and go have my aftermath conversation. Like, just so you know, when I did that, here's what I was really feeling, and here's why it'll be so good.

[B]

You're so important to me. That's why we're having that.

[A]

That's right. That's exactly right. So for everybody, Brett is so incredible at what he does with these marriages. And my team and I have benefited from even just getting to work with Brett, which has been so great. And you can, too. So we'll link to marriage essentials. We'll link to your new funnel. That way you can test out kind of what we built and go through the whole experience.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So we'll link to Brett. Brett. I guess we'll leave it with this last thing. If there was one bit of encouragement you could give with anybody when it comes to just, like, going through this process of taking this thing you're so passionate about and getting it to the world with advertising, what's one, like, bit of encouragement you would tell any business owner who's maybe resistant to ads?

[B]

Yeah. Well, I think, like, when. When you don't have volume going through your business. Right. You don't know what is wrong or what's. Where the hinge points are, where the resistance is. And so what ads do is they allow for you to really understand, like, where the problems are in your business. They bring volume into your business. And you're going to be able to. If you take that information and learn from it and apply it to your business, you're going to be able to grow, like I think of marriage essentials. Right. I'm so happy, and I'm thankful for Labret over the last two years who showed up and put that smorgasbord together because it gave something for you guys to do something with. And I think, like, that's what ads and volume and people in your business does, is it allows for you to see where you can level up. And that's. That's my encouragement to any business owner is put in the effort. Do your best. Put ads on it, see where it goes. Hire Ashley and her team, and I think you will be successful. I've experienced it. I've Talked to now 20 people inside the hall of Fame very closely, I would say, and seen how every one of them. Is there anyone who says, like, this doesn't work? I don't know. I haven't talked. I haven't found them in the group, and I feel like I've talked to everybody there, so.

[A]

Yeah, because they're rainmakers.

[B]

They are. Yeah. So I would say, yeah, just do your best and hire Ashley.

[A]

You're amazing. All right, y'. All. Well, you know where to meet Brett and his team. Whether you live in Minnesota or you want to learn and be able to get coached, remarriage no matter where you are. Brett, this is amazing.

[B]

This is good.

[A]

We'll see you on the next episode. Boom.