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H&R Block Went Full Reality TV to Unlock Gen-Z Customers
01:00:13
What do you get when you mix a 70-year-old legacy brand, Gen Z tax filers, and a reality TV show called Responsibility Island?
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Transcript109 lines
- [00:00]
Jill Kress
We decided to do something that was extreme and a little bit raunchy. And so we came up with this idea of Responsibility island for our first challenge.
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Stephanie Postles
Wait, where the hell is everybody? Marketers I talk to, I don't know if they really know what they're selling. What are these human needs that you're meeting that might not look like the actual product?
- [00:19]
Jill Kress
Close to 75% of Americans get a refund, and for many of them, it's the most significant financial moment of the year. When you decide to challenge the competition and challenge the category, content is only as good as your ability to get it in front of the right audience. And so first year that I joined Gen Z drove a disproportionate amount of growth for H and R Block. That generation in particular is looking to be entertained. So we've integrated into Roblox, we have integrated into Minecraft. And the second year that I was at H and R Block, fortuitously for us, the writers strike was taking place. Place. And they can't do it for entertainment, but they can do it for brands. And so Responsibility Island Roku had shared early on that we were getting some of the highest levels of engagement and completes that they had ever seen.
- [01:08]
Stephanie Postles
That was one of the big reasons of why I was like, I need Jill to come on the podcast. A reality TV show. Which, of all the CMOs I've talked with, none. Not one has done that. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another amazing episode of Marketing Trends. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, and I've got my producer Rose here with me because we just got off a very fun interview with the CMO of H and R Block, Jill Kress. And I mean, first of all, did you know that company is 70 years old?
- [01:40]
Rose
I didn't know that. And I also didn't know that H and R Block was H and R. The brothers. Like their brothers that started H and R Block.
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Stephanie Postles
Yeah, no, and I heard that. I'm like, more people should know this.
- [01:49]
Rose
Yeah, totally.
- [01:50]
Stephanie Postles
I mean, keeping a company that is 70 years old, keeping the legacy brand and showing, hey, I'm innovating. I'm, you know, ahead of my competitors. I can help you. You know, we're a visionary company. I mean, that's hard. So super fun hearing how Jill is balancing the cool factor with these crazy reality TV shows that were also very successful and build a brand around a legacy company that also shows like, we know what we're doing here, and we've been doing it a long time.
- [02:18]
Rose
It was interesting to hear her talk Too about balancing chasing trends and trying to stay relevant with wherever our pop culture is taking us. And then also, yeah. Finding a way to kind of communicate those fundamental values to your. To your recurring customers. And it's interesting too, taxes. You don't think about taxes being a. Having sexy marketing, but H and R Block has some pretty sexy marketing.
- [02:44]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, I mean, I think they're trying to market to you and you were.
- [02:46]
Rose
The one they're doing it.
- [02:47]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, they're doing it because you were the one who wanted Jill to come on the show. Right. When you saw the reality TV stuff they were doing and the comedy and just the way that they're marketing to people like you. Like, that's why she was even here.
- [03:00]
Rose
And it is also intimidating as soon as. I mean, I talked about this in the episode that I had some more complicated taxes to file this year and I needed to sit down with a human being and talk to a human and know that I can reach a human if I needed to. And I loved how she broke down the four E's, which we can just tease, but she kind of breaks down how they balance ease with empathy and how not everything has to be completely automated and behind a screen because then you have a harder time building trust and communicating that empathy piece to your customer.
- [03:38]
Stephanie Postles
Yep. Yeah. I mean, this episode, I loved it for so many reasons, but one, getting access to someone like Jill, who has worked at some point, major tech companies, PayPal, Venmo, National Geographic, National Geographic, which is not a tech company, but still a bad company, threw that in there for MasterCard. So going from these well known companies and then going into a legacy brand, it's like she knows so much. And so hearing how she's balancing the space that she's in, the different channels that she's investing in, how she's thinking about her resources, how she's really, you know, into brand building, storytelling, things that have been lost for quite a few years now when it comes to, you know, the marketing space and people not being able to invest in that. And then how she's pushing the edges of marketing and really focusing on what's next. And yeah, super fun episode. I definitely learned a lot. And with that, onto the episode with Jill Kress. Welcome to the podcast.
- [04:31]
Jill Kress
Hi, Stephanie. Thanks for having me.
- [04:33]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, I'm really glad to have you here in person. It feels good. It feels right. So, yeah, thanks for coming.
- [04:37]
Jill Kress
What an absolute treat that we were able to do this in, in person. It was so fortuitous that I was in Austin and we could make this work.
- [04:44]
Stephanie Postles
Yep. There's that last minute slip of like, hey, Jill, can you come? Even though your team said you can't come, can you please?
- [04:49]
Jill Kress
Any chance. And I love that you put it out there and here we are. Because I think human connection is just so valuable and it really makes a big difference in the fact that we've been able to hang a little bit and get to know each other will, I think, make for a really fun discussion.
- [05:05]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, me too. So I'm starting off right away with, I mean, you are working at a company that is 70 years old, which I can't say I've had many guests on the podcast that can say that. And so I would just love to start there of like, tell me a bit about you and how did you become the CMO at H and R Block?
- [05:24]
Jill Kress
Yeah, it is hard to believe that, you know, H and R Block has been at this game of helping Americans with their tax situation for 70 years. It's a long time. And a fun fact about H and R Block. It was founded by two brothers, Henry and Richard. B L O C H actually. And they observed at that moment 70 years ago that taxes were very intimidating and yet incredibly important because of the outcome and the impact that that can have on people's lives. So they started this company to provide help and inspire confidence around this tax moment. And we're still here at it 70 years down the road and we can talk more about what we've learned and how we're evolving. But one of the things that really encapsulates how we think about our history and where we're going is the tension between cherish and change. And there's so much to cherish in a founder led company. And the legacy and the impact that we've had. We've got this incredible corpus of knowledge. We've done over 950 million tax returns. We've seen it all. We've been through lots of administration changes. We've seen a lot of ebbs and flows in consumer confidence and orientations around their dollars. And we also know that we have to do things differently if we want to be a brand for the future. And so this idea of cherish and change and the tension in that is something that's really exciting. And so to connect the dots back to me and a little bit about Jill Kress and how I got here, I was working at PayPal and Venmo. I've had a long history in financial services. I started out my career in banking. I then spent 22 incredibly rewarding years at MasterCard where I grew as an executive and very much as a human being through all the experiences and interesting roles, including like traveling all over the world and living overseas with my family for a few years. And from there I went to National Geographic where I was really intrigued to see if I could plant into a new industry and learn media. After sitting on the other side where I was buying media and attention, that was a really fascinating experience. But I found my way back into financial services. I think what I really appreciate, I'm very, very consumer centric. I'm very interested in what motivates consumers. And I think through 22 years of working at MasterCard, I really understand people's relationship with money. And so I had an opportunity to get back into financial Services and joined PayPal and Venmo. And there I was at, you know, big global tech company. And I got a call about this role at H and R Block and I thought, huh, I'm not sure taxes, they're headquartered in Kansas City. I'm a Chicago native, so I do like the, the Midwest. But I just wasn't sure if it was going to be something that I could get really excited about. And the recruiter said, you have to meet the CEO. Just take the call with him and get to know him. And the CEO of H& R Block is Jeff Jones. He had this really rich background of understanding consumers and their relationships with brands and the importance of marketing, having a seat at the table and, and the intersection of marketing and customer experience. And so I met with Jeff Jones and we had this amazing conversation and I said to the recruiter, I want to be a part of what's happening at H and R Block. I want to be a part of a company that so deeply appreciates the need to cherish its legacy, but to challenge the status quo, to take risks, to be bold, to be curious. And it really felt like an opportunity for me to bring everything that I'd done in the way of building great brands, leading transformation, working to hone my direct to consumer marketing skills, kind of all in kind of one, one opportunity and lead. One of the things that I loved most about the opportunity was to take on leading a team of customer experience comms and marketing leaders and help them grow through this like incredible and crazy time that we're all experiencing. So yeah, the environment was right, the culture was right, and I've been there three years and it's been been a really fun and exciting ride.
- [09:29]
Stephanie Postles
Wow. Amazing. I mean, when you first just mentioned too who started H And R Block, I did not even know it was started by brothers. So I'm like, is this story told? Does anyone know about this? Can we put a picture up eventually, Rose, of these brothers?
- [09:42]
Jill Kress
We've got a great shot of the Block brothers in Kansas City. And they, you know, really with so much intention, felt like this is such an important moment. And, you know, they. There's a picture of them in front of this, like, enormously clunky server that they were. Were building. And of course, tax. You guys probably are too young to remember, but, you know, they used to be done on paper. I can remember my dad sitting at the dining room table with all the papers and, you know, in the form and the pencil. Many of us who were doing our taxes at home were using paper. The blocks were facilitating a backend system that was keeping up with the tax code that is incredibly complex and continues to be to this day. And they really believed that there should be a way to deliver a level of value and expertise to the American consumer. It's so fascinating. Close to 75% of Americans get a refund. And for many of them, it's the most significant financial moment of the year. It's an influx of cash that allows them to perhaps get their tires fixed or to buy a new bike for their kid for a birthday gift that they've really been hoping to give to them. It allows them to take a trip. It allows them to get out of debt. And so, so it's so anticipated and something that Americans count on. I mean, it's interesting because, you know, you could also get more money in your paycheck every month. But they, they most. For most Americans, they like the idea of getting this. This payday, getting this. This refund, so getting it right and ensuring that a company like H and R Block, who's been at this for a long time, is helping Americans get the best possible outcome is something that we take really seriously and continue to invest in providing a level of service that ensures that we're bringing that expertise, that our clients feel really confident that they understand that there's value in what they're. What they're paying us to do. And the other thing that was really important to the founders, Henry and Richard, was our role in the local community. And so we straddle this really interesting position as a big national brand. We have 9,000 locations that are open during tax season with 50,000 thousand seasonal associates that are helping Americans to get the best outcome. And our. Our field team are just as much a part of the community as you know, anyone else who's in that community, they're a part of the schools and the churches and, you know, the local community activities there. And so we straddle. How do you make H and R Block an important part of the community, which they are at the same time as you ensure that people continue to see us as the trusted expert that we are. So it's an interesting marketing opportunity. And to your point, I think there are so many great stories of how we get involved in and support local communities that are still waiting to be told.
- [12:35]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, I mean, I'm just imagining the complexity of marketing a company like this to try and hold onto its roots while being like. And we're innovative and cutting edge and we can do these things way better than anyone else. And we're also in the community. I mean, there's so many things to it. So I want to hear, like when you entered into this company, I mean, before you were coming from well known tech companies who have not been around for a really long time, definitely not 70 years. And so then moving into H and R Block, I mean, what were some of the biggest maybe challenges of shifting into a company like a legacy company like this?
- [13:12]
Jill Kress
So one of the agencies that H and R Block had worked with summarized it from a survey response that they heard from a consumer which said, H and R Block is better for somebody else. And as they started to peel back on that, they helped us understand that many Americans feel that way. So if you're in a higher income bracket, you feel like H and R Block may not have the expertise for your complex situation. If you're in a lower income bracket, you may feel like we are too expensive and so we are not right for you. And so it's really just who are we for? I'm a big believer in understanding your differentiated value prop. And to do that, you need to be for an audience and you need to understand how to convey that to them. And we can do really, really complex taxes and we certainly help a very high percentage of lower income Americans get the best outcome. But we're not a brand that felt loved by as many Americans as we needed to. So that was a kind of an interesting brief to think about. Well, what does that mean? And so that led us into a big exploration of our existing customers, of the addressable market and really getting focused on who is our audience, where were we winning, where were we losing? That had me rabbit holing into the role of geography. Having worked at MasterCard for such a long time and understanding where commerce Happens commerce happens in cities. And we launched a program while I was at MasterCard based on spend analysis and looking at global commerce trends between cities and cross border and how people travel. And you start to realize that commerce and spending in mass happens in cities. So as I looked at H and R Block, I then started to look at, well, we have strong national market share, but if you then start to double click into cities versus rural areas, what can that tell you? And who are we winning with? And who's really passionate about being an H and R Block customer versus those who are our detractors and really helping us start to have a better response for who are we for? And who should we be for? And then to connect the dots to the legacy company, to tell the story of the fact that we've got an incredible backend that's powered by the corpus of knowledge of 70 years and that we can do the same thing as our biggest digital competitor, which allows you to not have to go into a retail location and do your taxes yourself, using our incredible technology to do that and get that same knowledge and expertise if you want to do your taxes yourself. So lots of fun challenges.
- [15:48]
Stephanie Postles
So when you were doing this, I mean, I imagine there were maybe some surprises that came up from your team or within the company, because I'm guessing, I mean, when you have a company that big, you probably have a lot of opinions of who are we for? And so were there any big surprises that came out when it came to like figuring that out, one of the.
- [16:04]
Jill Kress
Biggest surprises was the way that the company speaks in terms of taxes. And so we often say, as we really start rumbling on our products and services or customers, we remind ourselves that sometimes our taxes start showing because we're really taxi. And so when I would ask people like, who do we serve? And oftentimes because our business model, we're organized around the retail experience. So people who want assistance, they want to work with a human. And then we have our DIY experience for people who want to do their taxes themselves. There's actually some really interesting consumer behavior preferences in that that I've learned to really appreciate. But when I first started asking that question, it was like, well, we're for people who either want in person tax help or for people who want to do their taxes themselves. And that is interesting. And I said, but that's our, those are the channels that we can serve the clients. But who are they? How does Gen Z feel about us? How do millennials like, like take a life stage approach? Take something else? Because no One walks into, you know, the school coffee, chat with the teacher and says, hey, I'm Jill. I'm a, I'm a complex filer. It's like, I need help. I, you know, I need to work with someone in person. It just doesn't work that way. It's, I'm a mom, I'm an, I'm an executive. Or, you know, I mentioned my daughter when we were chatting earlier, right. She's, you know, just starting out her career and she's trying to figure it all out, that that's who we are. Right. As people, we're not defined by how we think about our tax filing situation. Even though it's a part of how we define ourselves specific to our financial wellness, which is a big part of what we're trying to understand and think about how our relationship with our clients actually helps them have more financial freedom and more financial confidence.
- [17:51]
Stephanie Postles
I mean, this is a good reminder, I just think for any marketer when it comes to how you position your products, because I see a lot of especially software packages where you go to IT and they have these names that you like me as a consumer, I would never call it that. And that I don't even understand what it is. So like you're saying I'm a complex, complex filer for taxes. Like, no. How do you speak your customer's language and make sure that they are able to put in the information that resonates with them so then they can get the product that makes the most sense based off personal information from them that they're putting in versus you just picking a name for, you know, a product and then pushing it out to someone.
- [18:28]
Jill Kress
Yeah. And even if you just think about the tax category, it's organized by forms and numbers, but those forms are tied to a specific situation. And so speaking to consumers around the use case for a form that they may need and what that means in their relationship with taxes is a good example of that because it can get really taxy really fast. And I think, you know, that was one of the big surprises was just how much we spoke in terms of taxes as opposed to. I'm a, I'm a first time filer. I just started my first job. I've got to separate from my parents. What does that mean? And really started to challenge the organization to say, like, what are we doing with young people, for example? And if we don't think about them, how are we thinking about securing our future? Because I think in any brand category, you have to be maintaining and retaining a significant portion of your clients, while also securing for the future and bringing new clients into a relationship with you.
- [19:29]
Stephanie Postles
Yep. Yeah, I agree. So you guys are in an interesting. Well, actually, I think most companies are in this interesting space where they have legacy clients, they get to keep happy, and then they have these, this younger generation coming in very different. The things that they like, the things they think are funny, how they use AI. And that was one of the big reasons of why I was like, I need Jill to come on the podcast because I saw that you all did a reality TV show, which of all the CMOs I've talked with, none, not one has done that. And so I would love for you to talk about that a bit. Like, what did you all do? Why? How did it go? I want you to talk all about.
- [20:07]
Jill Kress
That because I'm super excited about this responsibility island. It was such good fun. So, gosh, the opportunity was, well, how do we connect with Gen Z? And so, so much of what we do to think about that is, well, we look at the data, right? And you know, from Talking to many CMOs, that generation in is looking to be entertained. They do not want to be spoken to. They need a little bit of levity, especially when it comes to serious topics that they might want to avoid. And so we had done a lot of work in creating content. The first year I was at H and r block, embracing TikTok and creators and influencers, and we started to see some good momentum in the first year. First year that I joined Gen Z drove a disproportionate amount of growth reach in our block. And we thought, okay, this is good. Like, we found a way to connect with them and, you know, modern media allows us to do that and to understand where to connect with them. And fortuitously in the second year that I was at H and R Block, fortuitously for us, the writer strike was. Was taking place. And a friend that I had worked with through the years had been pitching me on branded content for. For many years across the various brands that I worked at and said, there are tons of writers out there who are just dying to get into a writer's room and they can't do it for entertainment, but they can do it for brands. And actually, Fast Company didn't did an article on a brand that was in a writer's room in Hollywood with some. Some great television writers exploring content. And it turned out that it was H and R Block. And we sat in a room with, you know, again, these writers and one of the things that, you know, they Shared was that reality. We had lots of different ways in, but they shared the obsession that Gen Z has with reality television. And we kind of went back and validated a lot of the data. So it always, it's always art and science and things that were trending. You know, things like, you know, love is blind and a lot of like even revisiting previous reality tv, like Survivor is having a renaissance, for example. And so we thought, well, this could be really interesting to figure out how we could take, you know, do a take on reality television. And so we decided to do something that was extreme and a little bit raunchy. And so we came up with this idea of Responsibility Island. It was largely scripted, but the idea was that we put a group of young people onto an island and we had marketed it as Lit Island. Lit sits right in the middle of responsibility. And we had a fun kind of British narrator and marketed it as not being lit island but being Responsibility island where the only way that you could get off the island was to learn how to do adulting type chores. And so whether it was doing your laundry or learning how to iron and the MC was actually like this really sassy iron and they played a central role as one of the characters in the show. And we had kind of lots of different stereotypes of young people trying to make it in the world. And it was big and it was bold and it was raunchy and hilarious.
- [23:10]
Stephanie Postles
I was dying laughing. I was like, this actually seems like it could compete against other reality TV shows. Like the characters were ridiculous and there's a lot of truth in it, which is why it was funny.
- [23:22]
Jill Kress
I appreciate you watching. I appreciate you sharing that. We had a lot of fun making it and I think that was part of what made it worked incredibly well. It really moved the needle on awareness and consideration and most importantly, engagement with the brand. And I think it was because we didn't hold back. We knew if we were going to do it, we had to kind of go where those types of shows go with young people. And so. And we had fun. You know, we talked about tax forms and numbers earlier, but you know, there's the famous 1099 if you are in the gig economy and you know, so as one gal did her taxes, it's like I'm a 1099 or there's just like, you know, a little bit of tax topics in there, but mostly, you know, relationship drama and, and kids learning how to adult and do their own taxes. And so H and R block was inserted in a fun way. So you Know, when we came up with the idea, the scripts were definitely in the territory of reality television. And I went to the CEO and said, you know, we talked about content when you, when you hired me. And I think, you know, we really have to learn if this is the kind of thing that will get Gen Z to engage with us or not. And, you know, we took it to the board and I was a little bit nervous and they were, you know, saying, this is exactly the, the reason we hired someone like you is to get us out there and to try new things. And, you know, there were so many good lessons in it because it was a way to demonstrate that we could do things differently. It was a way to remind the associates that are part of the marketing and customer experience org on my team that they could take risks and feel safe, that they could, you know, come with big, bold ideas and, and the results were really great. So, yeah, it was, it was fun. It was definitely something I never expected to do.
- [25:12]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, I mean, you already know this is something I'm pushing a lot of B2B companies to get into this space. And now I'm pointing to your all's work, where I'm like, look, it can work. And I'm about to have Jalon, so I'm going to find out did it convert. And so that's, of course a question that I get. A lot is, okay, yes, we can do these fun things and it'll be hilarious, but does this actually fill the pipeline? Do we get clients from it? And so do you think you've had enough time from that reality TV series to measure it? And if so, how does it look?
- [25:41]
Jill Kress
Yeah, absolutely. So it was definitely a traffic driver for us. And I think part of it is how you think about the placement because, you know, content is only as good as your ability to get it in front of the right audience. And so we primarily placed it on YouTube and Roku, and I think that was a really interesting opportunity. It presented itself like a native piece of content in Roku to, you know, the right audience. And Roku had shared early on that we were getting some of the highest levels of engagement and completes that they had ever seen on the content that they present to, to that the types of audiences that we were targeting. And so we felt like that was really encouraging. And then of course, of course we were doing all sorts of brand lift studies and we have a really regular brand tracker that we have on during tax season so that we can, you know, correlate it to content that's out there. And so everything was starting to move in the right direction and we had, you know, as we were then using the content and cutting it into clips and putting it on social and we started to see lots of engagement and great comments and, and yes, it definitely hit on all of those things and led to a lift in Gen Z clients that year. And so the question is, you know, how do you, how do you kind of keep something like that fresh? Last year we did a reunion episode. So as opposed to investing in a whole new series, we republished the content and did a single episode. And so, you know, watch this space. We'll see what comes, what comes next and what, whether we, whether we stick with that genre or we do something else. But we, you know, it has empowered us to feel like we can create content that's really unexpected from H and R Block. We did some really great content to speak to the gig audience last year given the changes that were happening in the 1099 category. Again I got really, I'm getting Taxi on you Stephanie. So here for. It used to be that if you were working in the gig economy, you didn't have to file a gig return unless you were making over 20,000 in gig income. And this year it went down to 5,000. So we can talk more about that. But it's just like it's empowered us to do, you know, content with influencers and to tell stories in non traditional ways. Yeah, it was fun to do.
- [28:00]
Stephanie Postles
I feel like you have to do that like in this space you have to, I don't know, I mean standing out and somehow you have to make it fun. Are there things that you've stopped doing now? I can imagine looking at results and looking at, okay, now we have a lot of new traffic and new signups and customers that we've never seen before. Did you look at other channels and say I'm not doing these anymore that are maybe something that's very mainstream that most marketers are still doing where you're like no more Google Ads or no more something.
- [28:29]
Jill Kress
You know, we've done a lot of like, you know, shifting across the funnel. So lots of mix shifting conversations and figuring out how can we do less of the things that don't tell our brand story. And so my team knows I'm really hot right now in digital decisions, display units and like, you know, someone tell me how they're really working for us. I know they, we get a lot of reported impressions and a lot of reported view through on things like those. But I struggle to think that at the Rate marketers use those to feel good about the way that they're reaching an audience that they can be as effective as a great piece of content that tells the story of who H and R Block is. And, you know, while we had so much fun with Responsibility island, we also do a lot of really educational content that resonates. So one of the things that we, we do to speak to more complex, more mature clients of ours is to reinforce our expertise. And the woman who used to be chief tax officer did incredibly well on, on camera talking about the complexities, the legacy, the 70 years. And so we create like a version of brand power, you know, spots that we produce that work really well for us. And so anyway, all of that to say we keep pushing, do we have the mix right? And I think big topic of conversation among CMOs right now is the confidence that we have in what we can measure. And feeling good about that, I think has definitely pulled us further and further down the funnel, and it allows us to feel like we can tribute the work that we do. And, you know, we talk a lot about, like, just, you know, praying at the altar of the God of false measurement. And I think in many cases that's what we are doing because we're really wanting to justify that the work that we're doing is delivering and that it's driving traffic. And that's incredibly important. But I also know that our brands are suffering as a result of that. And it's also tricky for us because we're in such a seasonal business. And so your ability and other brands that I've worked at, where we've been trying to reestablish a point of differentiation or introduce a new value proposition, you can do that over time. We spend the bulk of our media and 105 days between, you know, some point at the end of December and April 15, and you're really, really pushing from a performance standpoint to get as many appointments for people to come in and see us and to get as many starts for people who want to do their taxes themselves. And so it's, you know, it's not as easy to keep testing and learning, but all of that to say, I keep trying to test, to move dollars, like further up the funnel because we have so much to say. And I believe for us to tell our differentiated story, we have to tell the stories of the impact that we're having in the community, of our expertise, of the fact that we are the OG experts of this category. We actually invented the category. And I think in a world where there's a lot of distrust for technology and what's happening, that's a really important story to tell. So we've had some wins and we're moving, we're moving some dollars up. But things like Responsibility island and even some of this other content that we've worked on that's more functional is a good, is a good testament that you can, you can build your brand and, and deliver performance at the same time.
- [31:41]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, that's amazing. What, what are some other examples? I think you. I remember when we talked a few weeks ago, you had another example of something fun you were working on.
- [31:50]
Jill Kress
Yeah. Well, again, through the lens of younger clients, and that's not the only, you know, of course, our existing clients, and we can, we can talk about how important they are and how we really reinforce our expertise and relationship, but going to where the customer is has been a big focus. And so we've integrated into Roblox, we have integrated into Minecraft. We did a partnership with Tinder this year for Valentine's Day.
- [32:13]
Stephanie Postles
Interesting.
- [32:14]
Jill Kress
And so again, we keep trying to find ways to put H and R Block into culture in unexpected ways. And I think that is really starting to pay off from a brand reputation standpoint. Of course, we're looking at, as I said, we're tracking our brand metrics on a very regular basis, and we're looking at them by audience. And so audiences that are important to us to drive new category growth. Of course, Gen Z, which we've talked about. But Life stage moments are really important. On average. Another fun tax fact for you. On average, people will change the way that they file their taxes four times in their life. And that is based on complexity. So, you know, if you're just starting out like my daughter, you can do your taxes yourself. It's pretty easy. If you buy a house, maybe it gets a little bit more complex. Let's say you get married and then you have a baby. Now all of a sudden you're in this moment where the question is likely, can I do my taxes myself? And that is a point where oftentimes the perception is, well, maybe I've too complex for H and R Block. Maybe H and R Block is better for someone else. Maybe they're, they're not right for me. So we now work really hard to tell life stage stories. And we do, you know, and then we've got this very seasonal nature where most of our media is spent between January and April, but weddings happen in June. And so, you know, we think about content and partnerships so that we Start to introduce through storytelling, H and R block versus, you know, spending more on digital display units, which were, you know, we did a great partnership with Yahoo. Finance, which I can talk about this year, which performed really, really well for us.
- [33:42]
Stephanie Postles
Oh, that's surprising. I haven't heard of heard Yahoo in a while.
- [33:46]
Jill Kress
I know, I know. I was, you know, they. I think it's the number one finance destination, Yahoo Finance for a certain age group. And so we put a lot of content and created. We've got, we've got a tax institute which knows, you know, has all the knowledge about everything tax related. And we, we had this partnership with Yahoo where we created bespoke content and all sorts of, you know, videos and we made it fun and entertaining and fun facts. And so digital marketing.
- [34:16]
Stephanie Postles
Okay.
- [34:17]
Jill Kress
Works very well.
- [34:17]
Stephanie Postles
Yes. Good.
- [34:19]
Jill Kress
Yeah. So those are, those are just a couple of examples.
- [34:22]
Stephanie Postles
Rose, I haven't popped you in. Is there anything from this first section that you want to add? Any questions that are popping into your mind?
- [34:27]
Rose
Is it challenging to balance, like tapping into pop culture trends which are by definition fleeting, and also being bold and original and being the trendsetter as a legacy company? How do you go about balancing where you want to put your resources?
- [34:45]
Jill Kress
Yeah, that's such a good question. Well, I think like anything, it's really a balance and it's about testing and learning. And so I mentioned Valentine's Day and some work that we did with Tinder. A good example of a day in a season like Valentine's Day is you can have a lot of fun with that. We work with great social media agency Vayner and they were like, really excited about everything that we could do around Valentine's Day. And the content was great, but it's not something that can live on. And so it's just like, how do you think about the days versus setting the tone for being bold in the category? And I think clarity on. We think about a calendar. You know, this is marketing, like 101 playbook kind of thing. And I think about it through like tent poles and then pup tents. So Valentine's Day is more of a pup tent versus a tent pole. And then you have to think about, well, how do you want to show up to challenge the. The category, perhaps to challenge your own legacy? And how do you do that in a way that has some structure to it? And so I have worked at many challenger brands and I think, you know, challenging the category leader is a way to do that. And so there's a whole, there's a lot of Science that goes into, how do you think about being a challenger brand? And that was the work that we did when I first joined, which was to say, okay, we have to get noticed. We have to put ourselves into culture. And we can do that through a tent pole and a pup tent kind of planning process where we can, you know, jump into conversations that are playing out around, you know, how people file on Valentine's Day or national singles day or, you know, different sports moments that play out. But we needed to have a drumbeat of having something bigger to say, which was grounded in some challenger brand strategy work that we did with Ogilvy at the time. And there's a book and a model and agency Eat the big fish. And it's really, I think, a disciplined approach to when you decide to challenge the competition and challenge the category, you know, how aggressive are you going to be? And for us, it was really around, you know, being human and relationship oriented and playing into our strength. And the humanness of H and R Block, that became the thing that we organized our sort of core content around was challenging people's expectations, challenging the way they thought about H and R Block, bringing our humanity, bringing our legacy into it, while then finding ways to have fun. And so we do that through really structured budget conversations by looking at flighting, by looking at how we invest our dollars across the funnel, all of the good data and science that goes into having some fun as you market as well.
- [37:31]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, I love that Rose. Anything to add to that or anything?
- [37:35]
Rose
Just that as you were talking, I started thinking about how I view H and R Block and compared to others. And I realized that I think of people like, I think of the people on, you know, your branding, I think of. And this year I switched over because my taxes were a little bit more complicated and I wanted to talk to a person.
- [37:53]
Jill Kress
Did you come to H and R Block?
- [37:54]
Rose
I did.
- [37:55]
Jill Kress
Did you have a good experience?
- [37:55]
Rose
I sure did.
- [37:56]
Jill Kress
Oh, I'm so glad you did.
- [37:57]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, it was lovely.
- [37:57]
Rose
There's one right by my house, too. So it was really surprisingly so easy. I think I saw it like, oh, not everything's just like, if I go sit in front of a person, I was worried about, like, judgment. I took money out of a retirement account after I lost my job last year. So I was just kind of scared to talk about these vulnerable things in front of a person. It was a wonderful experience.
- [38:16]
Jill Kress
So we hear, like, you know, we hear that from so many people who give us a try, and that's a really good foray into customer Experience and how we think about what you experienced because the humans bring a really important level of empathy to the relationship. So H and R Block as a founder led company, and it was all about the human relationship and the expertise and knowledge to feel like you're getting that, that, that, you know, best possible result is, you know, much money out of your refund, maximizing all your credits and deductions and everything that goes with that. And it really does come down to a relationship that you have with a human. In many cases, if you, if you want to work with someone and people come to us, as I said, because their tax situation has maybe become, has potentially become more complicated. And one of the things we spend a lot of time thinking about is like, what is the customer experience? What do we want customers to feel when they leave H and R Block? And it can be a really vulnerable moment for Americans who go in, they may have experienced the loss of a spouse and they're filing for the first time on their own. We have people who come in and are just not sure if they did the right thing with their retirement savings or maybe they had to borrow or take money out of their 401k. And so it's, it's a moment of like real human intimacy. We actually liken it in many ways to the relationship that you have with your physician because you have to be really, really honest about the totality of your financial position. And so as we architect the customer experience and you know, listen, this is, we've got a retail network of 9,000 locations and 50,000 humans and you know, tens of millions of clients who choose us every year. So to figure out, well, what are they really buying from us? It's not the tax return that they're buying from us, they're buying a set of experiences from us. And so we've distilled that down into four E's that we really try to build our experiences around expertise, ease expectations and empathy. And so the expertise I think is pretty straightforward. That's what we do, ease. Everyone is very time constrained and they really want to have a sense that whether you're doing your taxes yourself online or working with us in person, that your appointment was on time, that things went as you, as you planned. Expectations really is all around price to value. And so customers want to know when they come in what it is going to cost them. And so we work really hard to provide upfront transparent pricing because the worst part of the experience can be at the end if you thought you were paying a certain price and the price comes in higher than that. And finally empathy, which is really the ability to navigate those really delicate moments. And one of the things that I do in, especially in tax season is I spend a lot of time traveling and going out into the field and watching those human interactions play out. And I, you know, I saw a situation play out a couple of months ago when I was out in the field with a woman who was, had a full time job and she was a small business owner, she was working in Kansas City in Missouri, but living in Kansas. And she was selling things at a craft fair and just forgot that she had to file taxes with two states. And she was, you know, in a bit of a challenge position with the state of Kansas. And you know, she was really having like a moment of feeling really scared. And it was just amazing to see the empathy from the tax pro come through, to tell her to take a breath, to not be so hard on herself, that these things happen all the time, that the most important thing she could do was get the help that she needed to get things right with the two different states that she was doing business in. And I just watched her kind of take a breath and calm down. And I thought, this is why the work that we do on really understanding the human relationship and what we want customers to feel when they leave an experience with us really matters. Because if we can get that right, if we can bring our expertise, if we can bring that empathy and make people feel comfortable, make it easy and set their expectations, it's a pretty good winning formula for us. And really activating that, that network of humans that care so much about the, the clients that we serve.
- [42:22]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, it's a good story and a good reminder of, I mean, so many marketers I talk to, I don't know if they really know what they're selling. They're selling what they're told. They're selling. I'm selling this software, yes, I'm selling this thing. But if you really think about, it's like, no, I'm selling, like you said, ease of something. I'm selling peace of mind. I'm selling comfort, whatever it might be. Like, what are these human needs that you're meeting? Not just, I'm selling a software that does taxes, because that's probably not what someone's there for. They're there because they're stressed, they're there because they don't want to be stressed. And I think that's just a good reminder to check back in with what is the thing we're selling here that might not look like the actual product. Like, what is this person coming to me for? And why would they choose me over? I mean, at this point, with everything that's happening in all of these spaces, AI is changing so much. So many companies are going to be able to come in and start competing on these same types of services. And so how do you stand out? It's these human needs that are being met. And being able to show someone like, this is why we're different, because we're meeting you where you want to be met at, not just giving you a product that maybe eventually someone else could give you as well. That's powerful.
- [43:29]
Jill Kress
Yeah, I think about it through. It's what we do. What we do is help with taxes, but it's not why we do it. We do it to inspire more confidence, to help people feel like they're on a path to better financial wellness and financial freedom. And, and that is what you're, what you're wanting to feel when you leave, which is that someone answered all your questions and that you weren't just stuck in some sort of, you know, feedback loop and you weren't 100% sure if you got it right. And so it's been, it's been great to work on. You know, that's part of what I was excited about when I joined was the transformation to think about the intersection of marketing and customer spirit experience, understanding the data and where it could take us.
- [44:09]
Stephanie Postles
So now that we're talking about all the human qualities that you're bringing into taxes and finances, tell me how you guys are thinking about implementing AI into everything you offer.
- [44:19]
Jill Kress
Yeah, it's a huge topic, as I'm sure you and I know from listening to your pod. You talk a lot about. And so we've talked a lot about the human expertise that we bring. I've also mentioned several times this corpus of knowledge that we have. And so we have millions of customers who choose to work with us and do their own taxes using, you know, working with us online. And so one of the things that I think has been a really interesting use case for AI was to take that corpus of knowledge and create an AI Tax assistant that sits between a traditional chatbot and having to pick up the phone to talk to someone. And that was like, we worked really, really quickly two years ago as the world was completely hyper focused on AI to really double down on how we could leverage AI to provide a better experience for Americans who are not able to work with a tax pro. And we built this AI Tax Assistant. It was Organized around being able to provide answers to the most commonly asked questions. And it was a really interesting opportunity because again, there are so many Americans who are doing their taxes. We see it in the data at all hours of the day and night. And so if you are a rideshare driver or if you are, you know, working multiple jobs and you've got young kids at home, I was shocked to see the data which is people are logging on to do their taxes not only at, you know, 10 o' clock, 11 o' clock, but 3:00am, 4:00am, 5:00am and, you know, if you get stuck and that gets the, you know, we look at those same four E's in our online experience, like, it needs to be easy and we want to get someone to the best possible outcome. And if someone gets stuck and they're looking for an answer and they can't find it through chat, and we don't have 24, seven call centers that are open, like, how can we serve them better? And that was the thing that we sought to answer when we created our AI Tax Assist and have had incredible success with that in the way of customers engaging and having that product drive significantly more value and more revenue for us because it was a way for us to serve more clients and really meet them where they were when being able to give them a better experience and really democratizing that expertise. And so I think that's a really interesting opportunity for AI is not only what it can do for us. We spend so much time thinking about what it needs to do in the way of making us more efficient and making us more productive, but what about the job that it can do and serving our clients and giving them a more delightful experience?
- [46:54]
Stephanie Postles
I love that. Are there any big bets when it comes to implementing other AI technologies into your processes, your products, or anything you're betting on right now?
- [47:03]
Jill Kress
Well, I mean, I think when we first started getting excited about AI, it really was all about how could we be more efficient. And of course, lots has happened with respect to that, but I think the ability to create content across so many different use cases, including things like user journeys and user stories, and we're starting to play around with how as we become more customer centric, you know, how can we start to build Personas and get, you know, more insights into how we can expect that customers will engage with our brand. Lots and lots of content, and that's certainly exciting. But I think, you know, the big thing we're really starting to wrestle with is the role of the content that we create in feeding the LLMs to tell our brand story. Right. So, I mean, I think this, this is such something that's so top of mind for many of the CMOs that I, that I speak with, which is kind of connecting the dots back to like, we've spent so much time and attention at the bottom of the funnel on dollars that are working to drive conversion that haven't told our brand story. And now we're trying to ensure that our brand story can be told through an LLM. And we're in this, you know, environment that I think has presented itself where we're 80% of consumers can get to 40% of what they want with zero clicks. Right. I think that was a Bain data point. And so what do we do with that? And do we have the right content? And we've built all this content on our.com and the other places where people go, like our tax institute to be optimizable for SEO. And now we have to ensure that it's optimizable for LLM. So I think our heads are just really swirling. And as a curious person, I'm enjoying all of the learning that I'm doing, but I feel like we can't keep up with understanding the implications on what that's going to do to customer intent and engagement.
- [48:58]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, I mean, you already know that this is something that I've talked about on the podcast of just how different the world already is and where it's heading, of where you need to show up as a brand. And like you said, and we saw this throughout the years of marketing trends, of CMOs not betting on brand and not because they didn't want to, because they couldn't, because their CEO and their board and investors all were looking for performance and wanted to see the conversions. And so brand wasn't bet on for many years. And now it's kind of like many people are in this position of like, oh, shoot, we forgot about brand, or we weren't allowed to do it. And now we're not showing up in these search results because we don't have enough content out there talking about us and enough Q and A style stuff and oh, we didn't bet on video. And so now we don't have video as even a chance to be showing up. And these LLMs are pulling from everything, from blogs, from video, from, you know, YouTube podcasts. And so trying to figure out how to be everywhere and somewhat catch up from years where you weren't allowed to bet on brand feels like a tricky spot to be in.
- [50:01]
Jill Kress
It's Tricky and exciting. As someone who loves. Loves storytelling, I think I was born to be a storyteller. I remember, you know, sketching out jingles and creating cereal boxes as a young Jill who was kind of obsessed with advertising. So it's fun to feel, you know, empowered to be able to tell brand stories again. But it's a lot. And I think, you know, the pace of change and we are definitely on the precipice of a new era. And I think while it's fun and exciting, getting it right and to your point, like thinking about all of the touch points, I have to tell you, I listened to your pod where you covered that as I was preparing to come and meet with you, and I blasted it out to so many other CMOs, everyone on my team.
- [50:44]
Stephanie Postles
Downloads are skyrocketing because of you.
- [50:46]
Jill Kress
That's right. I was like, this is the thing. And you know, cause it was so well synthesized. So I highly encourage others to listen, to give that a listen, because it's very real. You allowed yourself to be interviewed by Lacy.
- [50:59]
Stephanie Postles
Oh, yes. Which I never do.
- [51:01]
Jill Kress
I know. I thought it was very cool. And. And you talked a lot just about your own journey in tech and data and. And this environment that we're in. And then of course, Marcus talked about that. That was Marcus in a very engaging way. So. Yeah, so good.
- [51:17]
Stephanie Postles
Okay, so now that we know the things that a lot of CMOs are thinking about, figuring out, curiously interested in what is something that you're super excited about and passionate about in the next, I'll just say one year. Cause anything past one year is like too hard to plan for. So this next, next, one year ahead of you, what are you most excited about?
- [51:33]
Jill Kress
I am really excited to observe what I think will be a renaissance in. In brand storytelling. I think it's going to feel very different. I think, you know, having grown up in a really fun era of producing beautiful, expensive television spots, I was just at the advertising hall of Fame celebrating many great CMOs, including my former boss, Raja, Raja Minar from MasterCard. And they showed sizzle reel. Linda Boff was celebrated John Hughes of American Express, Linda of ge. And they showed these, you know, sizzle reels of, you know, MasterCard, GE, American Express, and all the beautiful content that was created in the era of Lean Back, watching commercials with sound on era. And I think that is long gone. And I have had many debates as, you know, as content has been evolving about, you know, how much do you spend on a piece of television content to brand anthem versus more functional reason to Believe content, which we have to get a lot of reasons to believe out there. But I do think brand storytelling is going to come back in new and different ways. It's not going to be big, epic television content, but I think brands telling their stories in platforms, specific ways, that brings the, the heart of what they do, that makes people feel something about brands that gets us out of the functional storytelling space is going to be interesting to watch because it is going to play out in different ways than traditional 30 second AD spots. And you're already starting to see it happen on, you know, platforms like YouTube and other places. And so I'm excited to learn and to be inspired by other brands that are doing that well. Airbnb just came out with a beautiful piece of content to tell their story. And I think, you know, they've always been, you know, they've invested in brand throughout the ups and downs of brand versus performance. But you know, as someone who loves storytelling, I'm excited to see what we're going to learn and what we're going to see.
- [53:35]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah, me too.
- [53:36]
Rose
Selfishly. I have a question.
- [53:37]
Stephanie Postles
Yes.
- [53:38]
Rose
That I would love to ask.
- [53:39]
Stephanie Postles
All right, Rose, tee it up.
- [53:41]
Rose
Do you. What advice do you have for marketers or young professionals that are just at the beginning of their career while all this, it's getting harder and harder to tell where technology is going to take us and how AI is going to develop? So is there in the culture too, I feel like keeps shifting kind of from one end of the spectrum to the other. So is there a piece of advice that you would give to kind of prepare a younger marketer for that journey?
- [54:09]
Jill Kress
What a fun time to be a young marketer. But I can appreciate that it is overwhelming as well. And so, so the advice that I consistently give to lots of young people that I have the pleasure to work with and I've got a 25 year old daughter and lots of her friends are interested in marketing, which is to stay curious always, I think, and to do all the things that we've talked about, to listen to, lots of content to observe. I think this is a good one. Observe the brands that resonate with you and what you're learning from them. Observe where your own content journey is taking you to understand why. Learn all that you can about AI. Use it in as many use cases as you can so that you feel comfortable with it and that you're, that you're learning. And the other thing that I think is really important for young people is the importance of relationship I have built really the totality of my career on great relationships. I'm still working with many of the agencies or people that I worked with at agencies that have moved around or different startups that I partnered with. And I think the. The tenure of. Of relationships and getting to know people is something that has unfortunately become a little bit of a lost art.
- [55:34]
Stephanie Postles
Yep.
- [55:35]
Jill Kress
And I don't think, you know, coming out of COVID has. Has helped us. Right. And. And that's why I was so excited when you asked me if I would.
- [55:43]
Stephanie Postles
Come to me come to Austin.
- [55:45]
Jill Kress
Because I mean, we as humans are relationship oriented beings. And I always say, and I borrowed this from a mentor of mine, the more that we know each other, the better we can work together. I will sometimes observe things playing out in teams or slack where there's a lot of. And I will privately message someone and say, don't respond. Ask that person if you can pick up the phone and call them and have a conversation. Or we just did a meeting in New York where we flew a bunch of people out from Kansas City to New York. And I was asking a lot of the younger people, what other meetings did you set up while you were here? And they looked at me and said, well, I didn't. I'm just here for the meeting. And I said, is there someone that you want to meet? Is there someone that you went to school with? Use the time when you are proximate to other human beings to invest in building relationships. Because I think the return on relationship equity is a really intangible part of how we learn and how we grow and how we feel great about what we do.
- [56:56]
Stephanie Postles
I totally agree. I love this. Yes. All about human to human connection. Okay. I do think it'd be really fun to do a quick round with you of relevant or not relevant.
- [57:08]
Jill Kress
Okay.
- [57:08]
Stephanie Postles
And you just say whether you think it's relevant or not relevant. Okay. Relevant or not relevant. Marketing degree.
- [57:15]
Jill Kress
Relevant.
- [57:15]
Stephanie Postles
Oh, okay. Resumes?
- [57:18]
Jill Kress
Not relevant.
- [57:19]
Stephanie Postles
Okay. Billboards?
- [57:21]
Jill Kress
Not relevant.
- [57:22]
Rose
Rose, you got any banner ads?
- [57:25]
Jill Kress
Not relevant. Billboards. More relevant than Billboards are. More.
- [57:28]
Rose
Billboards more relevant than mineral.
- [57:30]
Jill Kress
Yeah, Yeah.
- [57:31]
Rose
I was gonna say pickleball.
- [57:32]
Jill Kress
Oh, wow. What a craze. Relevant. Gotta be there.
- [57:35]
Stephanie Postles
Especially in Austin. All star there in Austin. It's a thing. You can't get away from it.
- [57:39]
Jill Kress
It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. And maybe billboards are relevant. I'm a big. I love geo activ. I love experiential activation.
- [57:47]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah. In person events.
- [57:49]
Jill Kress
Oh, yes. So relevant. Well, the thing that we didn't talk about, which I'm super bullish on. Can we go back to, like, what I'm bullish on?
- [57:55]
Stephanie Postles
Yeah. What are you bullish on?
- [57:56]
Jill Kress
Super bullish on how understanding trends in social and building content for social that you can move up the funnel is going to drive creative strategy. And so I think, like, you know, on the how things were done versus how things are done, the fact that we would sit in big rooms and look at, you know, television scripts and how we were going to spend millions of dollars to create television content based on how a handful of people felt and maybe doing some testing, but that was always really testing with creatives as to, like, testing something that they, you know, were really bullish on versus what we're doing now, which is creating tons and tons and tons of versions of a similar piece of content and publishing it on social and letting the data tell us if it's working and if it's responding with the audiences that we want to win with. And this is kind of goes back to, like, what I'm excited to see. Like, I love when I see a piece of vertical content on television because it tells me that a brand was really smart and they created something that someone loved and they quickly worked on maybe a slightly better version of it to get it trafficked and, you know, to put on, you know, television or online video. Like, I just love how I am definitely a data and a creative person at heart. And so I love big storytelling, but I always excelled at math and data. And that's why I think marketing degrees are still relevant to some extent. Because when I decided to study marketing, I had no idea how much, you know, data, science and number crunching I was going to have to do. And it's so important today, and I guess you can get that through other degrees as well. But it's like the data will tell us. And I think this is a really exciting time, which means that as marketers and another piece of advice I would give young people is we have to be resilient because we have to be able to do things differently and continue to look at the data and understand what it's telling us while allowing the data to take us places where we can be more bold and do more things like branded content to win with an audience.
- [59:53]
Stephanie Postles
All right, well, Jill, this was amazing, as I knew it would be super fun. Thanks for coming to Austin. Coming on marketing trends, where can people learn more about you and the work that you're doing in the world?
- [60:03]
Jill Kress
Please find me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. As Jill Kress Amazing.
- [60:08]
Stephanie Postles
All right. Well, Jill, thanks, and we'll see you next time.
- [60:11]
Jill Kress
Thank you.