Marketing Trends Podcast: "Why Brand Associations Outlast Trends"
Host: Stephanie Postles
Guest: Uli Applebaum (Brand Strategist, Author of The Science of Brand Association)
Date: October 29, 2025
Brief Overview
In this episode, Stephanie Postles interviews branding expert and strategist Uli Applebaum about the enduring power of brand associations versus fleeting marketing trends. Drawing on decades of experience and his new book, Applebaum makes the case that brand-building should be grounded in evidence-based science, focusing on core, memorable associations rather than constantly chasing the latest marketing fad. The discussion ranges from examples in B2C and B2B, global perspectives, and evidence-backed frameworks, to actionable methods for brand teams to enhance creativity and make impactful memories for customers.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Core Role of Brand Associations
- Definition: Brands are essentially "memories, associations you have with a specific offering." ([00:00])
- Examples:
- Geico: 15 minutes can save you 15%
- Snickers: You’re not you when you’re hungry
- Kit Kat: Take a break, take a Kit Kat ([00:18], [05:24])
- Memorable Quote:
"Those are core associations. They're easy to share. That's the power of brand associations and memory structures."
— Uli Applebaum ([00:18])
2. The Pitfall of Overcomplicating Strategy
- Story: Uli discusses a brewing company bogged down with trendy, complex brand frameworks which created busywork but not results. ([02:19])
- His Method: A simple diagram of core associations, followed by identifying which to nurture, refresh, add, or drop.
- Quote:
"It’s simpler, more focused, focused on what really matters and easier to manage than 240 pages of templates and frameworks [...] It's like being at the post office or the DMV where you just fill out forms without achieving really anything."
— Uli Applebaum ([02:19])
3. Brand Associations Outlast Trends
- Evidence: Many popular branding exercises lack empirical support, yet brand associations have decades of scientific validation. ([04:34])
- B2B Challenges: B2B brands often lack clarity or change positioning too often, diluting associations. ([06:20])
- Difficulty Shifting Associations:
"It's extremely difficult because the perceptions are built in the memories of your customers. [...] You cannot just break that memory so easily."
— Uli Applebaum ([08:17])
4. Consistency Is King
- Case: Nike’s new campaign integrates “Just do it” to avoid alienating loyal customers—"People resist the unfamiliar." ([10:41])
- Consistency vs. Change: Don’t throw away legacy associations; refresh and build upon them.
5. Content Amid Noise: The Three Keys
- Guidance: Content/branding should be:
- Relevant
- Different
- Emotional ([12:03])
- Emotion Enhances Memory:
“Science shows us emotion imprint memories harder and more strongly in the brain than a lack of emotion.”
— Uli Applebaum ([12:03]) - No ‘Wear-Out’ Effect: Emotional communication can be repeated for years without diminishing effect. ([12:03])
6. Evidence-Based Marketing vs. Trend-Chasing
- Uli’s Motivation: Noticed a gap—no dedicated book on brand associations despite their usage by thought leaders and researchers. ([15:57])
- Quote:
“If someone comes to me and tells me no one knows how advertising works, I literally want to grab him and slap him. [...] Do your freaking homework.”
— Uli Applebaum ([15:57])
7. Fast, Actionable Brand Diagnosis
- Sprint Workshops: Uli can quickly map a brand’s associations via stakeholder/customer interviews, with solutions in 2 days to a few weeks, scalable to larger projects as needed. ([19:31])
8. The Power of Senses: Sound & Smell
- Underrated Triggers: Sound (e.g., sonic logos) increasingly important; smell can unlock powerful emotional memory—illustrated by the anecdote of ‘tinkerers’ recalling time spent with their fathers when smelling a lubricant. ([21:34])
- Quote:
"Here was for me an example. And that immediately created fond memories of their childhood... So even in B2B it's possible."
— Uli Applebaum ([21:34])
9. Global Perspective: Why the U.S. Fell Behind
- Shift in Leadership: U.S. used to dominate marketing thought leadership; now, Australia and Europe are advancing evidence-based practices. Ehrenberg-Bass Institute cited as a key influencer. ([26:01])
- Og Quote:
“The U.S. has lost the strategic leadership of what effective marketing is and it’s probably going to struggle to regain it.”
— Uli Applebaum ([26:20])
10. Rethinking Customer Journeys
- Critique: Most customer journey efforts are overkill—focus on a few high-impact touchpoints, not mapping every possible one. ([30:47])
- Surprise & Delight: A restaurant that feeds parking meters for patrons makes more impact than dozens of brochures.
- Emotional Hooks: Even chatbots with quirky personalities can be memorable if they elicit emotion. ([34:44])
- Quote:
“If you are able to surprise your customer in an unexpected way... This experience makes the difference between he's going to remember you [...] or he's going to get a competitor.”
— Uli Applebaum ([30:47])
11. Creativity and Problem Solving
- Creative Problem-Solving: Go beyond brainstorms—use exercises like “destructive brainstorming” (make your product worse, then invert those insights) and force the brain out of its comfort zone. ([40:45], [44:34])
- Quote:
“Our destructive mind is way more powerful than our constructive minds.…then you have the long list of negatives, you then turn those back…”
— Uli Applebaum ([44:45])
12. The 95/5 Rule and Budget Allocation
- 95% Future Buyers: At any time, only 5% of your market is ready to buy; the rest need long-term brand building (95%), not just conversion. ([47:55])
- Budget Split: 60% for brand, 40% for activation (“The successful formula is really to allocate a budget to long-term brand building your future audience and ... activation and conversion.”) ([47:57])
13. Protecting What Matters in Budget Cuts
- Prioritize What Works: When marketing budgets get slashed, double down on the single most effective conversion driver—even if it's 'unsexy’ (e.g., live demos for Vitamix, Harley test rides, etc.). ([54:25])
- Quote:
“Often it’s not marketing, it’s not advertising. [...] Buy 200 metal frames [...] that’s your strategy. Seriously. But that’s what works.”
— Uli Applebaum ([54:25])
14. Why the U.S. Lags in Evidence-Based Practice
- Causes: Shift to digital/transactional mindsets; rise of belief-based/value-based marketing driven by employee activism; ignoring the basics in favor of trying to create social impact through brands (e.g., brand purpose hype). ([62:07])
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On resisting fleeting digital trends:
“If someone comes to me and tells me no one knows how advertising works, I literally want to grab him and slap him. ... Do your freaking homework.”
— Uli Applebaum ([04:47], [15:57]) -
On maintaining visual consistency:
“You look at your own visual identity ... think, gee, I’ve seen that 6,000 times. I’m getting bored. ... Maybe it’s time to change it. No, because a customer will have seen that once or twice ... so way less often than you.”
— Uli Applebaum ([12:03]) -
On the dangers of belief-based branding:
“People come to work projecting their own belief system and value system on the brands they’re working on ... I’m not sure how that’s going to work or how that’s going to be relevant. But you see this desire, people want to have a bigger impact ... replacing the real problem.”
— Uli Applebaum ([62:07]) -
On practical impact:
"…what came out of this research…replace your sales team and your sales agents by former chefs that are now salespeople...that was one touchpoint, the interaction they had with the chef itself, surprising him, validating him, making him feel good about himself. Memorable, like nothing, no other touchpoint."
— Uli Applebaum ([35:35])
Timestamps for Important Segments
| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–00:18 | Opening example: Defining brand associations | | 02:19–04:34 | Toxicity of overcomplicated brand frameworks; Applebaum’s approach| | 06:20–08:17 | Challenges of B2B brand associations, Google/Salesforce examples | | 10:41 | Nike’s campaign: Consistency and the risk of change | | 12:03 | Cutting through noise: Relevance, difference, emotion | | 15:57 | Uli’s evidence-based approach and book genesis | | 19:31 | Sprint diagnostic: Workshop process for associations | | 21:34 | Sensory branding: Power of smell story with lubricants | | 26:20 | Global perspective: Why the U.S. fell behind in evidence-based mktg| | 30:47 | Customer journey mapping: "A complete waste of time and money" | | 35:35 | Chef-to-chef sales example: Memorable touchpoints in B2B | | 40:45 | Creative problem-solving: Destructive brainstorm method | | 47:55 | The 95:5 Rule; brand building for future buyers | | 54:25 | What to protect when budgets get cut: Amplify what works | | 62:07 | Why the U.S. is behind: Technology focus & belief-based distractions| | 69:16 | Lightning round: Most overrated metric is “brand awareness”—use salience instead | | 73:54 | Book recommendations: Persuasion (Cialdini), How to Win Friends| | 75:09 | Hobbies: Adventure motorcycling, obsession with expedition vehicles| | 76:58 | Leaders Applebaum admires: Strategic and warm business leaders |
Book Recommendations
- Pre-Suasion by Robert Cialdini
- How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
([73:54])
Final Takeaways
- Simplicity is more effective: Don’t drown in frameworks and templates; zero in on the memory structures you want.
- Brand associations are science-backed, long-lasting, and more effective than trend-chasing.
- Consistency and emotional resonance are critical to building and maintaining associations.
- Evidence-based marketing is resurgent—ignore at your peril.
- Don’t wait until there’s a crisis to build your brand strategy: invest while growing.
- When resources are thin, double down on the high-impact initiatives, even if they’re “unsexy.”
For more from Uli:
“Reach out when your brand is growing and successful, not when you are in front of the precipice about to close shop. That’s always more challenging.”
— Uli Applebaum ([79:48])
End of summary.