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Marketing Vanguard
Footwear, Fashion, and the Future: Conversations with Journeys CMO Stacy Doren
00:26:20
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- [00:00]
Jenny Rooney
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- [00:34]
Stacy Doran
Nobody in the mall carries the broad range of products and brands, popular brands that the teens want today, like journeys does. These 13 to 22 year olds is really the sweet spot for Journeys. They grew up online, they're very comfortable, they're native, they spend so much time online. But there's been a ton of news lately about just the resurgence of the mall and how Gen Z is making them all cool again.
- [01:01]
Jenny Rooney
Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney with Adweek and I'm thrilled today to be joined by Stacy Doran. She's the CMO of Journeys. Stacey, welcome.
- [01:13]
Stacy Doran
Thank you very much for having me.
- [01:14]
Jenny Rooney
Well, I'm excited to meet you and learn more about you and learn more about the company. As a mother of a 16 year old, I'm familiar certainly been a mainstay in retail, but I think for anybody listening, I would love for you to start by introducing the company and tell us a little bit about its journey and where it is right now.
- [01:34]
Stacy Doran
Journeys was started back in 1986, so we're just about 40 years old. We are a mall based multibrand footwear retailer. We've got about a thousand doors, predominantly in the US but we do have locations in Canada as well as puerto Rico. About 750 of those locations are what we would call the Journeys stores. We also have a little over 200 of journeys kids stores. So we're on a bit of a reinvention right now. So the brand has been a staple of the mall, a go to place to buy footwear for teens, always lived at the center of culture, has done very, very well, did very well through the pandemic and then afterwards things just really started to halt and slow down and I think that we had to take a long hard look at what got us here. Isn't necessarily going to get us there into the future for the next 40 years. There's been pretty big leadership change here at Journeys. Andy Gray and Chris Santa Ella came over from the Foot Locker and then myself joining after they did from Levi's and they both have decades of experience in the, in the footwear industry and Andy joined About a year ago. Chris joined shortly after and then I've been here for just about six months. So really thinking through it's not a reinvention, it really, it's an evolution, not a reinvention. There's a lot of great things from our past and our and heritage that we want to carry forward. But there's just some refinements that needed to be made starting with the consumer segmentation. So this brand was really founded on a consumer that was alternative, skate, emo, whatever you want to call it. And that served us well for so, so many years. One of the interesting insights as we were thinking about where do we take this brand, what do we need to tweak to take it forward is an insight that teens don't really want to be put into a box anymore. They have incredible access to information online style inspiration. They're very fluid with their style choices and like I said, they just don't want to be put into a box and they're trying on multiple versions of themselves. They may be preppy one day, they may be a jock the next day, they may be a little alternative the next day, but they just don't want to, they don't have one look. And I think that the expanding the consumer segmentation was for sure getting the consumer right was one of the first steps in setting the new strategy. So we've added a couple of consumer segments to the mix, holding on to that consumer that's known us and loved us, but expanding out so that we can service more consumers.
- [04:23]
Jenny Rooney
Are those different branded stores or what do you mean by different brands?
- [04:27]
Stacy Doran
Yeah, sorry if I. That might have been confusing. No, it's all journeys. It's all journeys. Just instead of laser focused on a more skate focused, alternative emo kid, we've got a more aspirational target. Much more fashion and style involved. The first to adopt new trends and new styles shops more has more in the closet, really can help set and scale trends. And then we've got more of a main a mainstream consumer who still wants to look great and have the popular brands and be and style but just is going to be a little bit slower to adopt those trends.
- [05:04]
Jenny Rooney
That's in the product mix then, right?
- [05:06]
Stacy Doran
It's in the product mix, it's in how in our brand communications and how we market the brand. So it really touches all aspects of the business. But getting sharper on the consumer focus was our first step in the journey really outlining our strategic focus of expanding the product assortment. So when we were laser focused on skate we were known for canvas and a very specific style. You can think who those, who those skate brands are. And we've expanded and diversified the product assortment so that we can cater to more teens, more interests, more different types of looks. We've got over nine brands that are growing right now. So mix of athletic, New balance, Adidas, got your Converse and Vans that we're known for. But also a really thriving casual business with Ugg and Birkenstock just to name a few.
- [06:02]
Jenny Rooney
I mean, it's interesting. The competitive landscape is massive, right, because so you know you're, you're up against Amazon and you're up against Foot Locker. I mean it's just like you have competition coming at you from all, not to mention small boutiques, right, that provide similar products. So how do you think about continued differentiation? Is it also the accessibility piece?
- [06:22]
Stacy Doran
Right.
- [06:22]
Jenny Rooney
The mall environment, right, is still a very unique context for serendipitous shopping. Right. Which is different. So talk about that.
- [06:32]
Stacy Doran
Let me start with the first and what the differentiators are. You're right, we don't have a unique assortment. We're selling other brands in our store. We don't have a fully exclusive line. There are other places of distribution where you, where you can buy the styles that we sell. But our differentiator is really lot of retailers that service him. They're more a sneaker culture. They're in more product drops. Yes, they may carry women's products, but they're catering to him and with a very specific, more athletic driven look. So nobody in the mall carries the broad range of products and brands, brands, popular brands that the teens want today like Journeys does. And the sweet spot for us is her. Nobody's servicing her in the mall like we do. And we think, you know, the mall I think was a four letter word a few years ago. It's like the mall is dead. It's all going online. And this teen consumer, 13 to 22 year olds, is really the sweet spot for Journeys. They grew up online, they're very comfortable, they're native, they spend so much time online. But there's been a ton of news lately about just the resurgence of the mall and how Gen Z is making them all cool again. I mean, they spent a couple years of their lives locked up during COVID and they just, they're, they're comfortable being online, they love spending time online. But they prefer to shop in store. It's a social activity for them. They like to see, touch, try, buy, take it home with them. So the mall's not Dead. And we're really celebrating the fact that we're, we're a mall based brand. But like I said, I. Nobody has the range of product, can service, the range of wearing occasions, the different versions of how you want to express yourself with a sharp focus on her. That is our differentiator and we're really running at that hard.
- [08:18]
Jenny Rooney
Yeah. And listen, I can attest to the fact that malls aren't dead. I mean as I referenced, I have a 16 year old daughter who. That is absolutely part of her social repertoire. Right. It's going to the mall, it's spending time with her friends, popping into all the stores and sort of the art of discovery that I think at least her generation still really appreciates efficiency. I mean they want it today, they want it yesterday, but you lose the experience. Right. Like, and that's an experience, a shared experience that they certainly seem to relish right now.
- [08:48]
Stacy Doran
Yeah. And I think that not all malls are good malls but the best malls are doing a good job with just providing entertainment opportunities, whether that's restaurants and just better stores and pop up concerts and pop up fashion shows and just pop ups in general. So they're, they're doing a much better job at giving teens a reason to come hang out. And we're going to ride that and benefit from it. So we love it. And especially on TikTok, if you, if you follow, I mean there's so kids are posting content from the mall and what they're doing and what they're eating and what they're buying and finding in store. So it's. Yeah, we're really encouraged by it.
- [09:29]
Jenny Rooney
Yeah, the whole rate, my haul or here's my haul, whatever, like they buy the things and then they have to share it out. You're right.
- [09:35]
Stacy Doran
So the TikTok, the TikTok, I mean as a brand that stands for youth, it's something that we've started to really play around with and it's going to be a big part of our go forward strategy. I think we're cautiously optimistic that TikTok will, will continue. But we've got mitigation strategies if it, if it doesn't. But yeah, we're really leaning into it in a much, much bigger way and with more intent and more purpose and we have some fun stuff coming out on TikTok that's great.
- [10:05]
Jenny Rooney
Listen, I mean it's all about convergence, right? There's convergence of entertainment, shopping and social, you know, and I think that the, wherever you can find yourself. I would imagine that given a brand like yours Anywhere you can kind of put yourself in the sort of the nexus of that. That's an opportunity for you to find success. I am curious, I want to talk about your background. 24 years at Levi's, as you referenced before. I mean, you started by explaining some of the woes that the company has experienced, you know, and so you were walking into a place that frankly needed, as you said, evolution. Not reinvention necessarily, but true evolution as a marketing leader. Why did that appeal to you? Some people might look at that and say, oof, daunting. Like this is a steep hill to climb.
- [10:44]
Stacy Doran
Yeah, I'll go back and start there. Levi's is a brand that has stood for youth culture and is the ultimate lifestyle brand. So iconic. And so when I was thinking about what might be a next move, 24 years is a long time to spend at a single company. You don't hear about that too much. But I, I really worked my way around the marketing organization and across brands within the portfolio. So it was a awesome, fulfilling 24 years and felt like I was always growing. But I think sometimes you need to really make a change in order to continue to grow. When I was thinking about where I wanted to go next, the similarities between a youth focused brand that is at the center of culture or has been at the center of culture, needs to get back to the center of culture. Lost her way a little bit. And footwear, footwear, apparel, I mean, it's just there's, there were so many things that appealed to me. I think it's a little scary when you're stepping into an organization here. When I was, when I was interviewing, there's a lot of tenure and yet I kept hearing about the necessity to change and hearing about some of the initial strategies that Andy was starting to lay out. It just sounded really exciting. Like what a time to be joining an organization at a pivotal turning point and to be able to get in at the ground level. Andy and Chris had about a six months Runway on me, but still we were still defining the brand, the direction, strategy, working on our long range plans, working on our one year plans. It's, it's a wild time to get involved, but I felt like I could put my fingerprint on the business and the growth opportunity that was ahead of us. I just really believed in the tremendous growth opportunity that we had here.
- [12:32]
Jenny Rooney
And is this your first CMO role?
- [12:34]
Stacy Doran
It is, yeah.
- [12:35]
Jenny Rooney
For people who have considered or contemplated or aspired to make that move. How did you set yourself up for success? How did you go through sort of the mental exercise of thinking. Have I amassed the experience needed to kind of now sort of transition into. Into the C level marketer role? And who have been your mentors? How did you sort of navigate and make sure that those first 30, 60, 90 days were going to be impactful?
- [12:57]
Stacy Doran
It's a great question. My last 10 years at Levi's, I was running the largest business unit, so Levi's Americas. And where that business goes, so does the company. And I was in that role for 10 years. It was a big, meaty role, not only in terms of the territory that I covered, but just the span of control that was underneath me. I felt like I was ready. I think it's natural to doubt yourself and you're never gonna feel like you're fully ready. But I just, I needed to push myself and I knew that I was ready for this role and I. I'm thrilled to be here and to make the jump. I had some incredible mentors along the way that have pushed me sometimes when you don't always believe in yourself and learned from them. I wanted to be them when I grew up, but that helped along the way. But it is a big jump. It's a big responsibility. You know, I came in eyes wide open. It's not just stepping into a CMO role where I'm hoping to make a mark, but a CMO role in a company that's going through this pivotal turning point. So I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been overwhelming at times. I think the advice that I would give to anyone stepping into it is give yourself some grace and some time to learn and observe. And I just want to hit the ground running. I see so much opportunity ahead of me. But you can't boil the ocean. If you do, you'll drown. What are the most important things that you need to prioritize? Think about the building blocks of how you want to build the organization and build your strategies and don't try to do too much. I think that's a. Can be a real pitfall to try to do too much.
- [14:33]
Jenny Rooney
Totally. So what do you think? And I'm sure this is a curiosity on the part of our listeners, again, people who maybe not yet are in CMO roles, but definitely aspire to that. You know, in the next few years, you said you manage one of the largest business units at Levi's previously. What do you think now that you are in the CMO role? What experience do you feel has been most beneficial? What do you lean on the most? You know, as you Kind of sort through the, the various responsibilities that your previous role had you overseeing. What's that one thing or two things that you find yourself now as cmo happily referring back to in helping you now in this role.
- [15:13]
Stacy Doran
I think there's really three areas. Your team, I mean it all starts with team and knowing how to build the right team and to develop talent and you're only as good as the people on your team. That's, I think has been critical in the past. I think I'm a strong talent developer and I've only been here for six months so we're still building the team. So but I think that's, that's really important. I think this strategy background, I think in, in my past and this is really relevant for where I am right now in Journeys, I'm able to stretch up and really think out far on the horizon, those long range plans, but also not afraid to get into the trenches and dip down into the weeds, so to speak. And I find myself, that's where I'm at right now with Journeys just given the where we are and the transformation. Just really needed to lean in and get my hands dirty and be more involved. And I think at the end of the day I'm responsible for the creative output. So I think that's really important. Those are the three key points.
- [16:15]
Jenny Rooney
That's awesome. So what can we expect to see from Journeys? You know, what's sort of on the short Runway here both in terms of brand strategy, media strategy, storytelling, you know, some cool collabs.
- [16:26]
Stacy Doran
Well, a couple of things. So we're working with Anomaly World class agency. So they really helped us define what we call the brand map, the brand book. So the positioning, the purpose, the beliefs, the tone of voice. And so we're moving now into developing brand platform. So it's been a while since we did any true brand building. This company has invested in performance based marketing for years and years and years. We're now unique in that. So a lot of companies have fallen into that trap. But we talked earlier about the product assortment. It's not 100% unique. There's other places they can shop and buy. We're not going to compete on price. We're a full price model. So you're not going to win the hearts and minds of teenagers by winning the search box on Google. They're not even using Google anymore. They're searching on TikTok. Right. So investing in the brand and having a strong enduring platform and campaign that will shake out of that. So that's coming. We're working on it. We just saw round one yesterday. That campaign will launch during Back to School which is a critical time of the year for us. Back to school and holiday for all retail, but for definitely for journeys. I hinted to this earlier. Until we have the new brand platform and the campaign, we're playing around with TikTok in a more meaningful way. We've got some really awesome long form episodic content that's going to be launching in the next couple of weeks. I think that while we have incremental investment next year to put towards the brand, which is exciting, it's, we're not going to outspend our way to awareness. So we need to be really smart about the creative that we're putting out there and we think we've got something really, really special that will be launching in a couple of weeks and brands are just starting to play around with that long form episodic content. So I think it's, it's just something really unique. It's going to stop people in their scroll and make them think differently about journeys. So that's coming. We're in the process of refreshing our stores. So our stores hadn't been touched in many years and honestly they looked a little junky a while ago. So really cleaning them up re merchandising them. We have a fresh new store concept. We call it 4.0. It's very footwear focused, it's lighter, brighter, show off all the premium brands that, that we sell. It's got little nods to our heritage, whether that's pops of color and the use of green and purple and orange which are brand colors. And we've got a really fresh statement wall that's behind the cash wrap that utilizes, it's a hand print graphic. We've been known for our handprints. It's one of our iconic logos that we've been using since the very beginning and we're known for handing out stickers in store and so it really draws back to the heritage of the sticker culture. So we're continuing to roll out. We'll have about 80 of those doors by the end of next year. So those are two major initiatives as well as to continue to evolve the product assortment.
- [19:09]
Jenny Rooney
And I'm sorry if you mentioned it, do you have a creator strategy? Are you working with influencers? Are you working with celebrities? Is that something that you're also exploring?
- [19:16]
Stacy Doran
Yes, exploring. So yeah, we've been tapping into creators and influencers for social but we don't have a full on strategy yet. So we're back to the prioritization. Don't boil the ocean. I just, when I got in here I, I felt like, you know, one of the things I needed to do was to make a case for why we needed to invest in the brand to drive that long term growth and brand health. But we didn't really even have a way to measure brand health or we are marketing ROI through last touch attribution. So there's a lot of foundational work that I'm doing right now setting up a brand equ equity tracker so that we have a baseline, we can measure this incremental investment against working on a marketing mix modeling so that we can measure the true impact of all the spend, not just the performance marketing. But I felt like we needed to get the foundation right. Then we had to ask for the investment, we had to make recommendations for how we would spend the investment and we'll lean heavy into paid media initially but influencers will definitely play into the strategy. It has to. But yeah, there were some difficult decisions that I had to make along the way as well. Well, we know we need to invest in paid media. We know some of the experiential and the influencers is important. But we were spending a considerable amount of money on a catalog that had been around for decades and a lot of good work and hard work went into that and a lot of people worked on it here on the team. It was probably one of the most unpopular decisions that I had to make. But it's not that the catalog was bad, it was beautifully done and we could track back that it was driving sales. But at the end of the day it's an opportunity cost. And if you're going to start a brand from. If you were starting a brand from the ground up focused on youth, you probably wouldn't say I got it, let's do a catalog.
- [21:01]
Jenny Rooney
To me that's legacy media and I can't not ask the question about AI. And listen, we've gone through a whole period of frankly things like gaming or NFTs metaverse like to me, I don't know, it seems like it's a brand that's adjacent or would have relevance in some of those. The technology might create opportunity for you all. I'm sure that's probably also further down in the priorities set.
- [21:23]
Stacy Doran
Yeah, I mean we're using some AI for personalization on the site but to say that we're using it in a major way both in the creative process or anything else is. Yeah. Down the road. Not yet.
- [21:36]
Jenny Rooney
I appreciate your Candor so tremendously because I think every CMO is trying to figure that out right now. And it's just. You cannot just assume that just because it's the term on everybody's lips that this is something that you necessarily have to employ tomorrow. And trying to figure out exactly how you employ it, both in external facing marketing, but also in terms of how you're executing internally, you know, and actually building the things. It's really uncharted territory for so many marketers. And I think figuring it out, I think mostly. Would you say that you're positive bullish on it or is it something that keeps you up at night?
- [22:07]
Stacy Doran
Well, that's not keeping me up at night. There's lots of things keep me up at night, but that's not it. But yeah, I mean, I think you got to pay attention to it. It's not going away. I don't think it's a fad at all. I think we'll figure out how to bring it in and leverage it in the right way when the time is right. But I think we've got some bigger fish to fry right now just in terms of getting our foundation right and sharpen our focus on the consumer. Get this platform launched, get the campaign launched, define our influencer strategy. All the foundational work that I talked about, measurements. Like I said, what keeps me up at night is just me wanting to go faster and put some wins on the board. And we've got to do it the right way. Progress over perfection is for sure a motto, but we got to be careful not to do too many things because then you're not doing anything right. So that's my struggle right now. I want to put some wins on the board.
- [22:56]
Jenny Rooney
What are you seeing initially? What sort of initial results are you seeing in business performance as a result of some of these moves?
- [23:02]
Stacy Doran
Well, we've had back to back double digit quarters, so Q3 and Q4, which is very, very exciting. I think it's really showing the organization that we're on the right path. These strategies are working. We're only getting started. The other result that I would call out, I mentioned the new store concept. So really encourag results. So far we're seeing higher traffic, we're seeing higher conversion, higher sales. We're bringing in more new customers as well as driving more out of our existing customers. So I'll take that as a win. And like I said, we're only getting started.
- [23:38]
Jenny Rooney
Love it. I think that is so well said and again, I'm sure that resonates for so many people who are listening as they continue to sort of navigate and sort through. And you're totally right about. At the end of the day, given where you are, you know, given the journey of journeys, this is, you know, the things that you're focused on have to be first priority and then you can kind of move from there. Last couple quick questions. I always ask this. This is just sort of gets to the question around your leadership style within the organization. And of course, as CMOs think about, we need to focus on being true business leaders within the organizations, not just functional leaders, not just shepherds of the brand and integral components of the C suite driving overall business growth, which I absolutely hear in subtext of everything you're saying. How would you define yourself? You know, using the metaphor of sports, in particular soccer? Where are you on that field? Are you offense, defense, or are you in the midline, kind of connecting the dots?
- [24:33]
Stacy Doran
I'm a huge, huge, huge sports buff. I would say that the last 10 years prior to coming to Journeys, I was in the midfield and I was serving up the balls for my team to scold the Gores. I mean, that just was. That was my role. And again, I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty. And I. I loved spending time with my team and getting out there and activations and creating the work and all the execution. I love that. But I was serving the balls. I would say right now I'm in front of the goal, just trying to kick them in and hopefully over time I can rise up and move back to that midfield. But, you know, you gotta change positions based on the needs of the business and. And that's where we're at right now.
- [25:15]
Jenny Rooney
I would argue, and no disrespect to anybody else who's answered that question, I think that's the best answer I've heard. Very insightful. It's very candid and it's great. Last question. Who's next? Who's somebody who you admire, who is in a similar role, CMO role or equivalent title, Somebody who's a peer, somebody you know really, really well, or somebody you admire from afar just because you think you love what they're doing with their brand? That I should have on the show. Next.
- [25:39]
Stacy Doran
Have you talked to Karen Riley Grant yet?
- [25:42]
Jenny Rooney
No.
- [25:43]
Stacy Doran
Karen Riley Grant is the chief marketing officer at Vuori. We worked together for many years at Levi's, so coworker she was. Prior to going to Vori, she was the chief marketing officer at Levi's. So I actually reported into her for a little bit, but also a very good friend of mine and I think that you would love her energy and what a cool brand too. I mean, they're just doing some amazing work right now.
- [26:06]
Jenny Rooney
So.
- [26:06]
Stacy Doran
Yeah, I would highly recommend that you reach out to her.
- [26:09]
Jenny Rooney
Excellent.
- [26:09]
Stacy Doran
Thank you.
- [26:10]
Jenny Rooney
Stacy. This has been such a pleasure. It's been wonderful getting to know you. I hope we can see each other in person sometime soon.
- [26:16]
Stacy Doran
Yeah, that would be great. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.
- [26:20]
Jordan Prietano
Thank you for listening to Marketing Vanguard, part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Acast Creator Network. This podcast was produced by Jordan Prietano, executive produced by Al Mannarino and John Hile, and edited by Lane McGibony at Boutwell Studios. You can listen and subscribe to all of Adweek's podcasts by visiting adweek.com podcasts. Stay updated on all things Adweek Podcast Network by following us on Twitter at Adweek Podcast. And if you have a question or suggestion for the show, send us an email@podcastadweek.com thanks for listening.