Leadership Through Turbulence: Insights from Maggie Schmerin, Chief Advertising Officer at United Airlines

Summary

Marketing Vanguard: Leadership Through Turbulence with Maggie Schmirn, Chief Advertising Officer at United Airlines

Release Date: February 11, 2025

In this insightful episode of Marketing Vanguard, hosted by Jenny Rooney from Adweek, Maggie Schmirn, the Chief Advertising Officer at United Airlines, delves deep into the complexities of marketing within the airline industry. The conversation offers a comprehensive look into leadership, strategic decision-making, and innovative marketing approaches in a sector marked by constant turbulence and evolving consumer expectations.

---

1. Introduction and Professional Journey

Jenny Rooney opens the discussion by acknowledging Maggie's significant contributions to the marketing field, highlighting her recent inclusion in Adweek's Marketing Vanguard Awards honoree list.

Notable Quote:

"We've been lauded you with the Marketing Vanguard Awards honoree list. Just a few weeks ago, it's our second list coming out."
— Jenny Rooney [02:07]

Maggie shares her journey from the agency side, particularly her tenure at Edelman, to her current role at United Airlines. Her transition was driven by a positive client relationship, leading her to embrace an in-house position where she has now been for nearly eight years.

Notable Quote:

"They were an awesome client... and they were nice enough to just say, do you want to come work here? And the answer was an enthusiastic yes."
— Maggie Schmirn [03:55]

---

2. Expanding the Role of Advertising at United Airlines

Maggie discusses the broad definition of advertising at United Airlines, emphasizing that it's not just about promoting flights but enhancing the overall travel experience. Her team focuses on showcasing the unique aspects of United beyond transportation, such as the MileagePlus program and customer-centric services.

Notable Quote:

"Getting people from point A to point B might be the least interesting thing about us these days."
— Maggie Schmirn [02:56]

---

3. Navigating the Complexities of Airline Marketing

The conversation delves into the multifaceted nature of airline marketing, where geographical nuances play a significant role. Maggie elaborates on how United tailors its marketing strategies based on different hub cities, addressing varying customer behaviors and market dynamics.

Notable Quote:

"We are a global brand. We became the world's largest airline last spring... it's incredibly interesting."
— Maggie Schmirn [06:57]

She highlights the impact of the pandemic on travel trends, noting shifts such as extended holiday trips enabled by remote work, which have altered traditional travel patterns.

Notable Quote:

"The pandemic has truly changed everything. It's a whole new ballgame and a whole new playbook."
— Maggie Schmirn [08:50]

---

4. Enhancing Customer Experience Through Innovative Marketing

Maggie emphasizes the importance of creating memorable customer experiences that extend beyond the flight. She shares initiatives like special celebrations at gates during major events like the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity, aiming to foster positive word-of-mouth among industry leaders.

Notable Quote:

"Why not have [the Cannes experience] start at the airport... something really good to say."
— Maggie Schmirn [14:00]

Additionally, Maggie speaks about the strategic expansion of lounges, drawing inspiration from the hotel industry to offer tailored experiences for different traveler segments.

Notable Quote:

"How can we really have that experience for every type of customer and traveler within these same aircraft?"
— Maggie Schmirn [16:33]

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5. Mastering Social Media and Real-Time Communication

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on United's approach to social media. Maggie outlines the challenges of maintaining a responsive and authentic online presence while managing the unpredictable nature of airline operations.

Notable Quote:

"Nothing drives me crazier than unforced errors and breaking into jail as a brand."
— Maggie Schmirn [22:40]

She explains the integration of the social media team with the operations center to ensure real-time communication and appropriate responses to ongoing situations, whether it's addressing delays or capitalizing on trending topics.

Notable Quote:

"We are reading the room and the tenor of the conversation of what's happening on the Internet every single day."
— Maggie Schmirn [21:02]

---

6. Building and Leading a Specialized Team

Maggie discusses the critical role of having a dedicated and skilled social media team. She emphasizes the importance of specialization within the team, distinguishing between roles focused on promoting the brand and those dedicated to protecting it.

Notable Quote:

"We no longer have a pool of social media generalists. That is a team that has a very specific role down to each individual person."
— Maggie Schmirn [25:55]

With a team size of around 35 members, United ensures comprehensive coverage and expertise, allowing for swift and effective responses to both opportunities and challenges.

---

7. Strategic Branding and Campaigns

Maggie highlights United Airlines' shift away from traditional airline marketing playbooks. Instead of focusing on generic metrics like the number of destinations, United's campaigns, such as "Good Leads the Way," emphasize meaningful benefits for customers, showcasing unique routes and destinations that resonate with current travel trends.

Notable Quote:

"We have to be responsive to what's happening in the Zeitgeist... making sure our route network matches all these places that people want to go."
— Maggie Schmirn [11:15]

She also notes the investment in sustainable aviation fuel and addressing the pilot shortage as key areas that have shaped United's brand narrative and marketing strategies.

---

8. Key Decisions and Innovative Approaches

When asked about pivotal decisions, Maggie credits the shift away from conventional playbooks as a cornerstone of United's recent successes. By encouraging creativity and challenging the status quo, United has been able to adapt and thrive despite industry upheavals.

Notable Quote:

"Getting rid of the playbook. We have changed, truly, every aspect of everything that we do."
— Maggie Schmirn [35:01]

This philosophy has led to groundbreaking campaigns and a refreshed brand image that aligns with United's forward-thinking objectives.

---

9. Leadership Style and Team Management

Maggie likens her leadership approach to that of a sports coach, focusing on vision, motivation, and fostering a collaborative environment. She values empowering her team members by providing clear goals while allowing them the autonomy to achieve them creatively.

Notable Quote:

"I like to think in pregame and locker room speeches. I love it."
— Maggie Schmirn [37:30]

Her emphasis on storytelling and brand narrative ensures that every team member is aligned with United's overarching goals and mission.

---

10. Future Outlook and Recommendations

Looking ahead, Maggie anticipates continued growth and innovation in United's marketing endeavors. She emphasizes the importance of staying adaptable and responsive to emerging trends and consumer behaviors.

Notable Quote:

"This is a fascinating industry and United has just been a great lens."
— Maggie Schmirn [34:29]

Maggie also expresses interest in exploring other successful marketing strategies outside the airline industry, such as those employed by high-profile artists like Taylor Swift, to glean additional insights and inspiration.

---

Conclusion

Maggie Schmirn's conversation with Jenny Rooney offers a masterclass in navigating the intricate landscape of airline marketing. Her strategies highlight the necessity of adaptability, customer-centric approaches, and the seamless integration of traditional and digital marketing efforts. United Airlines, under her leadership, exemplifies how embracing change and fostering a dynamic team can propel a brand to vanguard status in a competitive and ever-evolving industry.

---

Notable Additional Quotes:

• On Customer Communication:

  "Your information is power. It's stressful... we have wanted to arm our customers with more information."
  — Maggie Schmirn [18:02]

• On Team Pride:

  "They are a team with a positive reputation. People know who they are. They have that cool factor."
  — Maggie Schmirn [28:10]

• On Brand Campaigns:

  "Good Leads the Way, which was our first global brand campaign in a decade."
  — Maggie Schmirn [30:10]

---

This episode serves as an invaluable resource for marketing professionals seeking to understand the nuances of leading a major brand through challenging times. Maggie Schmirn's expertise underscores the importance of strategic innovation, effective team leadership, and maintaining a resilient brand presence in the face of adversity.

Transcript

[Unnamed Student]

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to be.

[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michaelson]

Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're talking like legit, credible experts.

[Noah Michaelson]

Doctors, PhDs all around, superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Right Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Information is power. It's stressful. When you're in a gate area and you can sense that maybe the flight's going to be delayed. You see some storm clouds running in. The gate screen switches to a new departure time, but you don't really know why. And so we have wanted to arm our customers with more information, with more opportunity to again have their travel experience be whatever they want it to be.

[Jenny Rooney]

Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney with adweek, and I'm thrilled to be here with Maggie Schmirn. Maggie, it's always a pleasure to see you.

[Maggie Schmirn]

So great to see you. Thanks, Jenny.

[Jenny Rooney]

So listen, we have so much to unpack. You are a superstar in the world of marketing. You have done so much, frankly, you've made it to so many lists. And I say that with the utmost respect because getting accolades in this industry is no easy feat.

[Maggie Schmirn]

And you have gotten it consistently.

[Jenny Rooney]

In fact, we just recently lauded you with the Marketing Vanguard Awards honoree list. Just a few weeks ago, it's our second list coming out. And so congratulations.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Thank you. That was a huge honor. I have so much respect for everything that you and the Adweek team do, so thank you.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, well, listen, when we do that, and that's what I want to get into here, we are honoring people who are leaders in this industry who are basically doing the work that they need to do for their given brands. But they're obviously through the choices they're making, they're propelling the industry forward, and they're having impact that goes beyond the bounds of their job. So before we get into that, talk about the bounds of your job, the sphere of influence that you hold at United Airlines, and tell us a little bit about your backstory and what got.

[Maggie Schmirn]

You to this place. Yeah, sounds good. Well, thanks again. Super excited to dig in. So I'm the Chief Advertising Officer at United Airlines. We take a very broad definition of advertising. Really? What does that mean in terms of marketing, communication, the brand. So how do we show up? We don't have an awareness problem. Everyone knows exactly what United does. But we want to show up in a way that feels different for our category, to make sure that people really know every best way to travel with this airline, to be a member of the Mileage plus program where we fly. And really the things that are not about getting a plane up in the air, I think getting people from point A to point B might be the least interesting thing about us these days. So it's my job and my team's job to really make sure that we bring awareness and shed a spotlight on that. My background has always been in this space. I came to know United because they were actually a client of mine. I spent the bulk of my career prior to being in house at United on the agency side, most of that was with Edelman, from a PR comms background, but really in the social digital space. And United became my client. They were an awesome client. Sometimes you have clients where you think, oh, thank goodness I don't work there. Then I get to go home, back to my office. At the end of the day, they were not like that. And I kept thinking, well, maybe I'm just not seeing the bad apples. Well, it turns out there really weren't bad apples. I ended up being embedded there for several months, and they were nice enough to just say, do you want to come work here? And the answer was an enthusiastic yes.

[Jenny Rooney]

And how many years ago was that?

[Maggie Schmirn]

So I'm coming up on eight years.

[Jenny Rooney]

Oh, my gosh.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah.

[Jenny Rooney]

But you haven't been Chief Advertising Officer for all those years, right?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Right. Yeah, that's correct. My very first role at United was looking after consumer pr. Being a company spokesperson makes sense coming from Edelman. Exactly. Spend the bulk of every single day on the phone with media, both promoting the brand, protecting the brand when we had issues and challenges, but then over time morphed into more of that marketing role, picked up social media, some of digital, and then inherited advertising at the really opportune time of May 2020, when the goal was, hey, we're not advertising because we're losing about $40 million a day at this moment in time, people were obviously not traveling. But that really, I think, was a silver lining. When I think back to what my team and I have been able to do, because we had some time to think about, we're going to shake this playbook up. We know we're not doing things maybe how we've always done them because of the backdrop of the pandemic. But travel will come back. It will come back in a big way. And let's be ready when that moment happens.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, listen, air travel is such a unique animal. And the relationship you have with consumers, I would argue, is so vastly different than any other brand out there. And it's everything, right. It literally touches people's lives, people's business. It's something that we take for granted. And yet when it's really good, we remember it. And when it's really not good, we remember that, too. So talk a little bit about that, the nuance, frankly, as an airline brand, and I don't even mean just travel, but just an airline brand marketer, like, how are you thinking about the unique layers of complexity come into play with that?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, you are so right. This was one of the biggest learnings I had. And still to this day, when we work with partners, media platforms, we work with agencies, you almost see that light bulb moment when someone really gets the complexity of the opportunity and the challenges that we have. But then also who our audience is and who we're going after. We are a global brand. We became the world's largest airline last spring. But our business model also has these really interesting geographical complexities to it. We have seven hub cities in the US and not all hubs are created equal. If you think about a traveler who lives in New Jersey, they are going to fly with United Airlines. Newark will be their home airport.

[Jenny Rooney]

I being one of them, by the way.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Right, exactly. Thank you. I have seen you in Newark Airport and terminal C there. So, yes, I know that. Well, we want people to feel good. We want them to say to their taxi driver, take me to terminal scene Newark, and say that with a bunch of pride and not just feel that they're handcuffed to the loyalty program and they have no other choice. Then you look at a market like Denver where, you know, one of our competitors is right there with us and we See a lot of what we call wallet splitters, someone that might be flying with us one week for a business trip, and then they're flying on the competitor the next week for a family trip. And our goal there is, how do we get more of that share of wallet, really different than what we're doing in Newark. And so even though, like I said, we're this national brand, we are a global brand, it really starts with that geographical lens. And I don't think I appreciated that prior to working here, and really how much we need to pay attention to that. And then there are markets where other airlines call those markets hubs and homes. And even though United operate there, we really have to think about, is that the best city, even though in some cases these are major US Cities, to utilize our dollars and utilize our time and our resources. So it's incredibly interesting. And then you just add on the pandemic, and that has shaken up every travel trend. We've all seen the headlines about what's the best time of week, the best day, the best hour to buy your flight and to search. All of that, really, the pandemic has truly changed everything. We all know we've been in airports, we've seen how busy, the aircraft are full, people are traveling. And you take Thanksgiving was probably the best example of that. We all know the Wednesday before Thanksgiving was always celebrated as the busiest travel day of the year. But now with work from home, work from anywhere, people are able to extend the time that they go somewhere. So some of our hubs, the busiest travel day of the Thanksgiving period was the Friday, Saturday, Sunday prior to Thanksgiving, because people are able to be gone longer. So it's been really interesting to think about. This is a sector that's been around for decades. And some of those trends, we could really put our plans against them pretty easily. And then you throw in the pandemic, and it's a whole new ballgame and a whole new playbook.

[Jenny Rooney]

Again, just so much complexity. And I'll just put it out there. Obviously, this will probably run perhaps in one or two weeks time, but still, I want to flag the fact that we're on the other side of Thanksgiving now. You and I are actually talking on the. What is this? The Tuesday after Thanksgiving. So arguably, we're on the other side of. If you were at H and R Block, we'd be on the other side of tax season. Right? Like, that's the metaphor for it. How did it go? What happened this year that you feel was unique, different, surprising?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, great question. It went really? Well, it was our busiest Thanksgiving ever. Sunday after Thanksgiving was the busiest day in the nearly 100 year history of our airline.

[Jenny Rooney]

Oh, my God.

[Maggie Schmirn]

In terms of the number of flights that we operated and the number of passengers that moved through our system. So it truly was our Super Bowl. You think about Thanksgiving, Christmas and then spring break, those are the marquee moments for us. And so we all rise to the occasion. I think we do something really special at United where we encourage our employees that don't tend to normally work in the airport. They have a job on the other side, the M and A side, to get out into the airport to volunteer to help. So my team and I did a bunch of that. So got to interact with a lot of customers, help them. I was so impressed with the spirit of not only our employees, but also the traveling public. I think people know when they're showing up to the airport during a busy time like that. They bring their A game just as much as our employees do. So it was really exciting. And we saw some unique travel trends. Historically, domestic locations are obviously where people go. They're visiting family, they're going back to their hometown for the holidays.

[Jenny Rooney]

College students, obviously lots of college students travel.

[Maggie Schmirn]

But we are seeing more and more with each passing year. People thinking about international destinations, thinking about places like Europe that historically off season there, that's a place people tended to go in the summer. We are seeing a lot of interest in Christmas markets. That's myself, where I spent the Thanksgiving holiday.

[Jenny Rooney]

A good friend of mine went to Budapest with her family for Thanksgiving.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Exactly. So that's the really interesting thing. I think Instagram and TikTok and what social media has done as being the travel agency and the travel inspiration has for all of us. And then we're trying to be as responsive as possible and making sure our route network matches all these places that people want to go.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah. Actually, as we talk here, we're on what's called, I guess, Travel Tuesday.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yes.

[Jenny Rooney]

Who knew, right? Well, how do you think about those moments too? Because listen, pricing, everybody always talks about pricing is still such a big thing. And you obviously want to lean into being known as a good pricing option. But also you can't just have it all hinge on pricing. So where do you think about your marketing on a daylight Travel Tuesday? What's the messaging and the positioning that you need?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, great question because this seemed to really become a thing. I think we'll look back on 2024 as the year that really cemented what has become Travel Tuesday. I think it's been a little bit under the radar the last couple of years, but something that became a big deal. So we're running a really attractive sale to 25 international destination everywhere from Tahiti to Turks and Caicos, Morocco, which is probably our newest destination that we just started service to a couple of weeks ago. So we want to make sure responsive to what's happening in the Zeitgeist. I always like to say social media is a dinner party conversation. You wouldn't show up at a dinner party conversation and totally talk about something that the rest of the table is not interested in. You wouldn't insert yourself six different times in that. But we want to be present and be a part of that conversation, especially as a leader in this category. So absolutely. We want to make sure we're participatory. We have a great sale. We started talking about it yesterday. We had a lot of debate on our team. What's the right day, Cyber Monday or Travel Tuesday? I think the right answer is let's make these deals available for a couple of days. People are busy. So this is a sale that we're actually running all of Cyber Week for our customers to take advantage of.

[Jenny Rooney]

That's awesome. And I would be remiss if I didn't. You're talking about how you're showing up for largely for business travelers and consumers outside of our industry. But Cannes is obviously one of the biggest moments inside our industry. And I know you are doing so much to be the preferred airline of choice for industry executives traveling to Cannes every June for the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. Talk a little bit about that.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, this is something that we have a ton of fun with. We started nonstop service to Nice a couple of summers ago from our hub in Newark. And this summer we will also offer a nonstop service from Washington Dulles, which is really exciting. But I got to thinking, I said, okay, these are all movers and shakers that are going on these flights over to Cannes. And there is maybe no greater channel than word of mouth marketing. And so you're going to have all these marketers show up and everyone talks about their flight over, where they delayed, what happened, when did they book their flight. That just tends to be the opening conversation in a place like Cannes. I thought, I want people to have something really good to say, and it's almost like a party. I feel that Cannes and the experience, why not have it start at the airport and start before you have your first glass of the Carlton, so to speak. So this will be now our third summer in a row doing this, but just making sure we're bringing special added touches. We've had a celebration in the gate area the last couple of summers. We've texted customers on those flights to say we have something special planned for you. Make sure you arrive to the airport early. We've had a jazz quartet inspired by music that you might hear in the south of France, obviously snacks. And just making sure that we're giving people a really good reason to show up and say with pride that United Airlines is their airline of choice.

[Jenny Rooney]

I love that. And I want to say formally again, thank you so much for letting Adweek actually put our special can issue last summer on the seats of. I believe it was a couple of flights that went over those direct flights. So we loved being part of the United experience there.

[Maggie Schmirn]

So thank you. No, thank you. We love that as well. And yeah, we're excited. These are some of our best performing flights when we look at them, no surprise there. It's such a marquee event for our industry. So I'm really excited to have Washington, Dallas join the Newark party this coming summer. Yeah, it's competitive space. Exactly.

[Jenny Rooney]

Saying no names, respect all names. You're carving out your placement, United's role in the travel there. So that's very cool. We've mentioned this word experience, and you're talking about what's happening for the camp flights at the gate. Like a running narrative.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Right?

[Jenny Rooney]

It's a true running experience throughout starting getting ready to board the flight, on the flight, and then on the other side, experience is something that obviously I think all airline brands need to be thinking about. I see that you all are actually going to expand one of the lounges. Right. It's going to be one of the best lounges. And the lounge experience for loyal travelers is a massive connection point, engagement, brand engagement point. Right. So share your experience on that and your expertise and how you're thinking about using that strategically to make sure that you're wowing your most loyal customers where they frankly, are going to spend the most time with you outside of the actual physical airplane.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Exactly. You're right. This is something we are laser focused on at United Truly. All departments coming together to think about what's the best experience that we can offer Truly, to all of our customers and how can we build different offerings that meet whatever needs you might have as a business traveler, as someone solo, traveling, as a family. And so really looking, I think, more deeply at different customer segments than we ever have before. I take a lot of inspiration from the hotel category. Brand like Marriott, who's one of our great partners, they have 30 some hotel brands within their portfolio. And what you're going to get at a JW Marriott vs Springhill Suites Versa a Ritz Carlton. Historically it wasn't like that in the airline sector. We had obviously first class business, but those came with very set specific benefits. And you might say, that's not necessarily a benefit that I need. And so how can we really have that experience for every type of customer and traveler within these same aircraft? It's a little bit harder to do than I think, our friends in the hotel space, but that's something that we're really focused on. So yes, we have a big emphasis on our lounges, our airport terminals in general. And that experience there. We have done a lot when it comes to communicating with our customers. One thing that I tend to hear the most about is the texts that we send our customers. People seem to really enjoy those. This started a couple of years ago.

[Jenny Rooney]

I love them.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Awesome. I love hearing that. We call that program internally. Every flight has a story and it's really our conversational way to say what would you text your mom or your spouse or your friend if they were waiting for you on the other side at an airport to pick you up? And let's say there's unfortunately a delay because of bad weather. What would you say to them? And then let's just talk to you in that same conversational tone of voice. Let's tell you what's going on. Your information is power. It's stressful. When you're in a gate area and you can sense that maybe the flight's going to be delayed, you see some storm clouds running in. The gate screen switches to a new departure time, but you don't really know why. And so we have wanted to arm our customers with more information, with more opportunity to again have their travel experience be whatever they want it to be. If you want to talk to an individual gate agent, you can do that. If you are someone that you don't want to stand in a line, I don't want to talk to someone. I'd like to communicate through the app. I'd like to communicate with United through social media from the airport, that's okay too. And we're really trying to make sure that we offer that.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, it's bringing something very human to the experience. And I, I literally just was on a flight a couple weeks ago and it was something about whether it's air traffic control is busier than normal right now. The plane came in just got in and we need to spend a little more time cleaning it. Like even those details and that level of transparency. And frankly, we're living in a time when texting is so common, right, in terms of relaying information. And.

[Unnamed Student]

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be. To be.

[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michaelson]

Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're talking like legit, credible experts.

[Noah Michaelson]

Doctors, PhDs all around, superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jenny Rooney]

The fact that you guys are leaning into that is palpable. It's huge. Flip side, obviously, social media is a great place for people who want to complain. So, I mean, how do you deal with that? You know, how do you think about that? It's no surprise, like, every airline is dealing with that. How do you think constantly about how you need to show up in the face of that?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, I think in no other job I've had, no other category have I had to do more Reading the room. Read the room and the tenor of the conversation of what's happening on the Internet. Every single day. I talk to friends and other brands that they can schedule posts and you know, this content's going to go out on this day. That's not obviously something that we can do in our category because we really have to be responsive to what's going on. And we've totally changed our approach on social. We are much more playful, witty, willing to take those opportunistic risks, being responsive to trend. But we can only do that if the operation is running well. If there's a massive snowstorm that's about to hit Denver and we're over here joking around on social media. Those things do not gel together. So we work really closely with what we call the heartbeat of the airline. It's our operations center that funnels everything happening at the airline. We actually have what we call a seat holder, someone who's based there on an ongoing shift, monitoring social media in addition to lots of other tools that we use for social. But this person seated just a couple seats down from the person that is quarterbacking the operation of the airline in a 247 role. So we can help understand what's happening in the operation. Are we about to go into a thunderstorm delay at an airport? What does that mean? And then they can relay to our team, hey, you were maybe going to go joke around and have some fun and do something again. Capitalizing on a trend. Now might not be the right time to do that. What might be the better, more helpful content is to say to our customers, here's what's about to happen. We are going to have bad weather in this city, and you're able to change your flight and be much more helpful. So it requires an immense amount of coordination. And just when we think we checked all boxes and we've checked in with colleagues, you almost can't check enough to say, I'm literally about to push publish on this because we just never want to step in it. Nothing drives me crazier than unforced errors and breaking into jail as a brand. And so we work really hard to ensure that happens as infrequently as possible.

[Jenny Rooney]

So that is a great segue into my asking you questions about your role, your personal role, your responsibility, the actions you're taking. And I guess literally until this moment, as you're describing it to me, we both know tons of chief marketing officers and equivalent titles, and everybody has to be always on. I get that any brand has to be always on, but you actually. It's literally like the super bowl for you every day. I literally don't know how. You cannot be always on because air travel is happening every second of every minute of every hour of every day. So from your seat, how do you literally sleep? How do you think about building a team around you, like, so that you can go to sleep on a given night and know you're gonna wake up and there won't be, like, a massive disaster, you know, like, literally bring us into a day in a life of you.

[Maggie Schmirn]

You're right.

[Raj Panjabi]

It.

[Maggie Schmirn]

It is a huge part of that. I remember in my early days working at the airline, being at A family function. I think it was a family reunion. And I was a bit distracted on my phone with something that was going on. I remember my mom, typical mom, daughter, kind of wanting at my hand and saying, put phone away. And she said, do you always have to be working? And I jokingly, but not so jokingly, said, if there's a United Airlines plane in the sky, we're always working. And guess what? There's always a United Airlines plane in the sky. So you're right. It starts with a great team. And I think the number of people on a great team, that's something we've worked really hard over the last several years to say. This is the size of the team that we need to look after the vast social media function. And we need people that are in those promote roles that are promoting the brand, brand on social. And their job is to go to different corners of the Internet that we might not be so obvious in and open up conversations and to plant the United Airlines brand flag. We also need people protecting the brand and closing down conversations. If someone tweets at us that their bag is missing or they're in jeopardy of missing a connection that they might have, how can we problem solve quickly, shut that conversation down, move on? And so I think over the years, we've realized those are different roles. I think a lot of social media teams try to have everyone be a jack of all trades and do everything. So we've gotten much more specific. We no longer have a pool of social media generalists. That is a team that has a very specific role down to each individual person. And again, that coordination between those two sides to say, here's what we're seeing, both positive and here are the things that might be a challenge, but it truly is a 247 operation.

[Jenny Rooney]

So what is the magic number as far as team size?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, so I would say mid-30s is what we have to be able to do that. Around 35, 36 people. We would always take more because I think there's no shortage of what we can use those individuals for. But that's a number that has worked for us. And then attaching them to those other departments, like I mentioned earlier, having someone physically sit in our operations center and be able to hear directly from the person that is running the airline at any given moment in time. There's no delay. It's not like, oh, we have to wait for a report to come out of a meeting or so, and so heard something and they funnel it down to the team. We are hearing it in real time. And that's been incredibly helpful. Our motto is see something, say something. And so truly, all day, every day, we have a Microsoft Teams channel that's running. Let's just see something, say something. It might turn out to be nothing. And oftentimes it's not even related to our brand. It could just be, hey, I'm seeing headlines pop about something, something. Let's make sure that we don't post something that inadvertently gets confused with something. Again, like I said, that doesn't relate to us at all. But it really takes a skilled crew. And that's the other thing. We all see the memes existing in this community, and oftentimes people joke about the intern that's looking after social media. We proudly have interns on our team. But when you tweet or you talk to United on social or United is posting something, those are skilled practitioners who have made social media their livelihood. It's not just their first stop in their career, and they move on to something else. These are people that are chronically online because they love it, and that's what they wake up every single day wanting to do. And I think that's the other thing that I would share with brands to say, this isn't a job where we'll give it to the young person because they have a TikTok. This really takes people that have a passion, skill set, and really, frankly, the right judgment to make those calls in those moments of like, should we say this? Shouldn't we say this? Could that be misconstrued? Are people gonna get this? Because that's where I think a lot of brands tend to go sideways when things go wrong.

[Jenny Rooney]

So I'm not gonna say, what is it the most important team? Because I know you would never single out any aspect of your marketing org as being more important than the other. But is the social team kind of one of the most dominant or largest?

[Maggie Schmirn]

I would say they're one of the most celebrated. What's been the really cool thing the last couple of years at United? There's so much pride and the proactive wins they have, and I think swagger and the evolved tone of voice and the wit that they bring. And so I feel like every single day, our employees are truly cheering them on. They get really excited when they see our employees share a TikTok video or post. And so I think that propels them through the good times and maybe the not as good times. So they definitely are a team with a positive reputation. People know who they are. They have that cool factor. Swag to Them, which is great because when I started at United and specifically started on the social team, and I think this happens a lot of places because everyone has social channels of their own, regardless of what you do. So everyone thinks they're a little bit of an expert. And so my team and I would constantly get examples of other brands or even other airlines. Why don't I ever see United post this? Or what if we did this? And we're really proud to say, I don't get those emails or texts or calls any. I can't remember the last time some money United said to me or someone on my team, why aren't we posting about this? Or I saw someone post. I think we're really leading from the front now. And that's just something that the team wants to just every single day now live up to that high bar that they've set.

[Jenny Rooney]

That's awesome. Meanwhile, yes. You have big, anthemic brand marketing campaigns. Like, that's a whole nother part of the engine. Right. And I assume you're working with external agencies for that work.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And prior to this current version of the role that I have, these were different teams. And so over the last couple of years, we have put everything together. That's the organization that I have the pleasure of looking after. And I think that has added to our success as well. Because even if you're over here on social media and you're focused about the 20 different pieces of social content, you have to get out in a week. You have to know the higher altitude that the brand is flying at and the TV commercials that are going to be out there and the out of home. And so it's been incredibly valuable to merge those two teams together and again, use that moment during the pandemic to say, we want to reintroduce ourselves. We've done a lot in the past couple of years and really zigged while others were zagging. I think anyone would have given us a pass to say, hey, like, you guys are going through a tough time. If you just take your ball and go home for a bit, so be it. That's okay. And that's not what we did. We spent more money on aircraft than we ever have before. We made decisions to build all these new clubs and lounges at a time when we were losing money. But we knew travel would come back and we said, we want to be ready for it. And so let's make that investment now. Let's get serious about solving for sustainable aviation fuel. There's a Pilot shortage. Let's also come up with the right solution for that. And so the business was really giving me as a marketer the receipts to come out with a really good brand campaign. Sometimes advertising has to lead and you hope that the brand and the product lives up to what you do in your marketing. It was almost reverse where the business was really leading. And now there was an opportunity to say, we have to talk about this. And again, it's not about getting people from point A to point B. That might be the one thing we actually don't talk about in this first version. So that was really the genesis of Good Leads the Way, which was our first global brand campaign in a decade. When that launched back in 2022.

[Jenny Rooney]

Anything we can expect to see in 25 from a brand advertising stamp. 1.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah. So more good Leads the Way. We are talking about where we fly now. We have this amazing route network and we keep adding these destinations that are just beyond my wildest dreams. One of our most recent destinations that we announce is Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. Wow, say that five times fast. Like I mentioned Marrakech in Morocco earlier. I was just on our inaugural flight to Morocco a couple of weeks ago. Fun fact, it's a seven and a half hour flight from New York. It's the same as going to Paris right now.

[Jenny Rooney]

Oh my goodness.

[Maggie Schmirn]

It blows people's minds mind. And it's an amazing destination, an amazing long weekend destination. And so we are really talking about where we fly and taking this notion of being the biggest airline. But saying to people, here's what that really means for you. Here's how you can benefit as a customer. More non stops, more flight times, the times that you want to go. These places that you've seen on social media, you've maybe heard people talk about are more accessible truly than they've ever been. And oftentimes we're the only one flying there. So it's been a fun challenge because as a team, we've said we're not going back to the old playbook of airline marketing. If you look at airline advertising, especially right before the pandemic, every single airline in this country, ourselves, American, Delta, near identical ads, we all would tell you that we fly to more than 330 destinations. We all have blue in our color palette. Every or airline in this country has blue in their color palette. Up until a few years ago at United, we used the same font as Homeland Security.

[Jenny Rooney]

Oh, I mean airport.

[Maggie Schmirn]

And it's like you think about the subliminal messaging and you know what Your eyes are seeing. And so there was a real opportunity to say, I don't know what that means. Did my mom or my friend or did they understand what 330 destiny. That sounds like a lot, but, like, do you fly to the one place I want to go to? And so we've really challenged ourselves as we've brought back more of our rap network into our advertising to not fall back into the traps of more than 330 destinations worldwide. And really being much more interesting.

[Jenny Rooney]

Maggie, you are the professor of airline marketing. You could teach a legit class. There's just so much minutiae and nuance.

[Maggie Schmirn]

There is. When I started in this industry, people said, you could work here for the next 30 years and you will still learn something new every single day. And that is true. And then other people said to me, you'll either love this and truly, it will feel like she had fuel is running through you, or it won't be for you. People tend to come into this category and they're here for a year, three years, or they're here for the rest of their life. There's no in between. It's a fascinating industry and United has just been a great lens.

[Jenny Rooney]

So you're either going to teach a class or you're going to write a book.

[Maggie Schmirn]

So. Right, exactly. From your lipstick on Zoo, I'll be here for that.

[Jenny Rooney]

So I'm going to ask a couple questions that I typically ask in the Marketing Vanguard podcast. And one is just, what's one action you've taken that really sent ripple effects? One decision. Because obviously being a cmo, being a chief Advertising officer, literally your job is making decisions every minute of every day that can. They're forks in the road. They can change trajectory. So is there something your mind goes to when you think about what was a key decision, small or large?

[Maggie Schmirn]

Yeah, I think, truly, it's living by this notion of getting rid of the playbook. We have changed, truly, every aspect of everything that we do. I. I can think of one thing that we do the same that we did prior to the pandemic, and that's a partner of ours that prints our airport ads, like our static ads in our airports, who's an amazing partner in Houston, Texas. His name is Doug. Doug is the one constant over the last couple of years. And so really, once you challenge the team to just say, well, I get that, that's why we've always done it, but what if we approached it in a new way? So that has really been the North Star that we have used and Then maybe we're inspired by being in Chicago and the Second City improv troupe being there. But that great guidance in improv you hear about. Yes. And an improv to keep a scene going. You never want to shut it down. You always want to continue to open it up. That is our team's bumper sticker. That is our mant. That's constantly what I'm saying back to the team. Like, this is great. But yes. And did you go connect the dots between someone that's working on something a bit similar on another team or someone that might not even be aware that we're doing this? So I think getting rid of the status quo in the playbook and then just that. Consistent. Yes.

[Jenny Rooney]

And so in this conversation, I've literally come up with a new idea. So the marketing banquet Summit's gonna be back in Chicago in May next year. You were there last year for the first one. And I'm actually gonna have the invited CMOs come back and literally teach a class. I'm gonna give like a time limit and you have to come with, like. So you're gonna have to teach a class on the concept of ripping up the playbook.

[Maggie Schmirn]

I love it.

[Jenny Rooney]

It's gonna be like 15 minutes, like a TED Talk, but it's actually gonna be. Because we're at the University of Chicago, you're actually gonna. As if everybody in the room was a student. You're gonna be a professor for 15 minutes.

[Maggie Schmirn]

So I love it. That's perfect.

[Jenny Rooney]

Okay, so you heard it here first. Fun. So I like to use the soccer pitch as a metaphor for being a leader and trying to get a sense of your leadership style. Are you the striker trying to score the goals against the competition all the time? Are you the midfielder trying to be that connective tissue between the defensive players and the strikers? Or are you the defensive player protecting the goal at all costs from competitive onslaught? Or as my sister in law just corrected me the other day, are you the person who's basically, literally directing the course of the game from behind but getting no credit for it?

[Maggie Schmirn]

A little bit of everything. I hope this isn't a cop out. I. I would say coach. I'm a big sports fan as well. In the last couple of years, it's funny, I have found myself more and more feeling like I'm constantly thinking about halftime speeches or pre game speeches. And so a couple of years ago, I thought, am I turning into like a middle school football coach? Are these speeches that I'm giving even that good? But yes, I think it's been a real joy as we've expanded the team and really have brought in more people from elsewhere within the airline or from other companies to really play that coach role. To say this is the vision and this is ultimately the goal and the direction we all need to row in. You have been brought onto this team for your unique experience and skill set, so we're not going to be overly prescriptive about how you get there. So that's been really fun. But yeah, I like to brand everything. I like to tell stories and think about the lessons we want to share in stories. So I do tend to now think in pregame and locker room speeches. I love it.

[Jenny Rooney]

That's awesome. Last question, who's next? Who's somebody else that we should have on the podcast? It can be somebody who is a close peer who is doing extraordinary things, or it can be somebody who you've never met but you been admiring from afar and would love to hear from.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Okay, I'm gonna go big. It's almost the end of the year and it is the end of the ERAS tour later this week. So I'm gonna say who I think is the hardest working CMO today, Ms. Taylor Allison Swift. I would love really and I don't know if we'll ever get it, but I would love that behind the scenes scoop of really the marketing and the business that she's creating. It sounds like if you follow on social media that she's being trailed by camera crews for hopefully some behind the scenes of the actual concert and how that came to be. But her publicist, Tre Pain, I think has done an exceptional job. When you really look at what they've accomplished with the ERAS tour, it's been remarkable and I think there's so many lessons as marketers we can take. First and foremost doing fewer things better. I oftentimes think about everything she could have done during the last couple of years but didn't. She could have put her name on any product out there and it would have sold out a line of makeup, a line of clothes, her own line of friendship bracelets that she sold and she didn't. I think she knows when to let the fan and the community that she has created lead and where to focus, you know, her time and effort. So I'm hopeful one of these days whether that's here on this podcast that would be amazing or in a behind the scenes movie. We hear a little bit more about the marketing aspect, but really the business engine that is Taylor Swift.

[Jenny Rooney]

You're speaking to a massive Swiftie.

[Maggie Schmirn]

So amazing.

[Jenny Rooney]

I admit it. I think she is everything in that. Like all props go to her. It's really extraordinary. It's unlike anyone we've ever seen. So absolutely that will be the rest of my life's goal is to get her and or tree paint on the show. So I'll work on it.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Put it on The Vision Board 2025.

[Jenny Rooney]

There you go. Exactly. In the meantime, Maggie, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure as always to talk to you and I look forward to seeing you soon.

[Maggie Schmirn]

Awesome. Thanks Jenny. This was great.

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[Maggie Schmirn]

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[Jenny Rooney]

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[Maggie Schmirn]

Stay updated on all things Adweek Podcast Network by following us on Twitter Dweek Podcast. And if you have a question or suggestion for the show, send us an [e-mail] thanks for listening.

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[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxiety we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michaelson]

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Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts.