Mastering Human Centred-Marketing in an AI-Driven World ft. Lauren Weinberg of Supergoop!

Summary

Marketing Vanguard – "Mastering Human-Centered Marketing in an AI-Driven World"

Guest: Lauren Weinberg (Advisor, Former CMO at Square, Intuit, Peloton)
Host: Jenny Rooney (Adweek)
Date: May 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jenny Rooney sits down with Lauren Weinberg, a seasoned Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) with tenures at top brands like Peloton, Square, and Intuit. The conversation delves into the evolving role of marketing leadership in the era of AI, how human-centered thinking remains vital, and practical wisdom for marketers navigating industry transformation. Lauren shares candid insights about leveraging storytelling, adapting education, team building, agency relations, and the real implications of artificial intelligence on marketing strategy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Human Side of AI-Driven Marketing

(02:00 – 03:44)

• Lauren suggests that contrary to common fears, AI could actually push marketing toward more authentic storytelling and humanity.

• She foresees a "shift back to brands, authentic storytelling, establishing credibility."

• LLMs' (Large Language Models) reliance on high-quality, third-party and first-party sources will force brands to invest more in content and stories that can be cited and discovered via AI platforms.

  Quote:
  "What gets me the most excited is the way that I think AI will bring more humanity to marketing...I actually think it's a time where we'll see a shift back to brands, authentic storytelling, establishing credibility."
  – Lauren Weinberg [02:00]

2. Storytelling and Content Creation in the AI Era

(03:44 – 04:49)

• Past trend: big brands built in-house 'content studios,' hiring journalists to tell their stories.

• Lauren muses on how AI could supplement content studio models, letting brands scale efficient, high-quality storytelling faster and more affordably.

  Quote:
  "I think that's an area where you could also use AI to help you just scale those operations...it'll be interesting to see how that comes back, but in a more efficient and better way with...the supplement of AI..."
  – Lauren Weinberg [04:23]

3. Marketing Education: The New Interdisciplinary Imperative

(05:01 – 07:58)

• As an advisor at Emory University, Lauren discusses the need for "blending data and communications" in curriculum.

• Both technical literacy and communication are prerequisites for future marketing leaders.

• She recommends hands-on exploration: CMO-led "Learning Days," AI study groups, and giving teams time to experiment with various tools.

  Quote:
  "Just having that coding and technical skill set isn't enough to be a great leader. And it's the ability to communicate that makes you really strong."
  – Lauren Weinberg [05:31]

  Quote:
  "My counsel to other CMOs is: create learning days for your teams...let them get into all of the other tools, because there isn't a winner yet."
  – Lauren Weinberg [06:26]

4. Lessons from Leading Through Volatility at Peloton

(08:51 – 11:47)

• Peloton required sharp focus and saying no; marketing should match the quality of user experience.

• The strategy was to expand audience demand and educate on Peloton’s full value—not just the bike.

• Under resource constraints, clarity in strategy helped filter out distractions and create team alignment.

  Quote:
  "The number one complaint when I got there was just there's too much work and there's not enough people. And so we had to say we're going to have to start saying no to some of the stuff...it just becomes your litmus test of should we be doing this or should we not be doing it?"
  – Lauren Weinberg [11:47]

5. Universal Marketing Fundamentals Amid Change

(13:24 – 16:55)

• No matter the industry, marketers must keep business needs and outcomes at the core—understanding drivers of revenue, growth, and the role marketing plays in the overall P&L.

• CMOs should have ‘P&L sensibility’ even if they don’t have official ownership.

  Quote:
  "The fundamentals are, as a marketer, you should always be thinking about how you're going to drive growth in the business, where the revenue is going to come from and the best way to do that."
  – Lauren Weinberg [14:49]

  Quote:
  "Even if you don't have P&L responsibility...having P&L sensibility is still really important."
  – Lauren Weinberg [16:26]

6. The CMO’s Role in AI Adoption and Strategy

(17:13 – 20:12)

• CMOs must champion team engagement with multiple AI tools, not just the enterprise solution.

• Education and discernment are crucial: "right now, AI, you need a human in the loop for everything."

• CMOs should advocate for hands-on learning, group sessions, and setting guardrails for responsible AI use.

  Quote:
  "It's important for the CMOs to be making sure that they are really leading the charge on their teams' understanding...and helping teams with discernment."
  – Lauren Weinberg [17:36]

7. Evolving Conversations with CEOs & CFOs

(20:12 – 22:05)

• Shift from “do more with less” to a more strategic place at the table

• Efficiency is not the sole benefit: AI enables smarter, faster marketing, but doesn’t always mean fewer resources.

• AI also bolsters the case for long-term brand investment, not just short-term wins.

  Quote:
  "It started as marketing: you should be able to do more with less...I think now it's a much more strategic conversation."
  – Lauren Weinberg [20:54]

8. Real-World AI Case Studies: The Need for Shared Learning

(22:05 – 22:35)

• Lauren and Jenny agree more tangible, shared CMO case studies will help demystify AI potential and best practices.

9. Ethics, Bias, and AI Responsibility

(22:58 – 24:00)

• Lauren is influenced by companies like Anthropic, who focus heavily on AI safety; she believes ethical AI isn't discussed enough.

  Quote:
  "I don't think we're talking about that as much as we probably should be. And I think it's very important for all of us…"
  – Lauren Weinberg [23:35]

10. Changing Agency Relationships

(24:00 – 25:46)

• Agencies are consolidating, and many CMOs seek less dependency on agencies.

• AI could allow for smaller internal teams and leaner, nimbler boutique agency partnerships.

  Quote:
  "A lot of CMOs are thinking about how they can reduce their dependency on agencies… it's not surprising we're seeing so much shifting and consolidating."
  – Lauren Weinberg [24:36]

11. Building and Managing Talent for the Future

(26:13 – 28:49)

• Entry-level marketing roles may be vulnerable to AI, but Gen Z and younger cohorts (“AI natives”) bring superior AI fluency.

• For new hires, Lauren values conviction, courage, and curiosity. Marketers must embrace experimentation, challenge the status quo, and pitch bold ideas with confidence.

  Quote:
  "Whenever I'm hiring, I always say I look for the three Cs, which is conviction, courage and curiosity."
  – Lauren Weinberg [27:37]

12. AI as an Equalizer for Challengers & Innovation

(28:49 – 29:42)

• AI can level the playing field for small or challenger brands and enable big brands to break into new areas more affordably, as search-driven marketing previously required deep resources.

13. Most Overlooked Trend: AI Will Reintroduce Humanity

(29:51 – 31:40)

• Lauren believes the biggest thing CMOs are underestimating is not the risk of “robot marketing,” but the opportunity for AI to amplify brand authenticity and human connection.

  Quote:
  "I actually feel like we're seeing a pivot back to more humanity, this desire for more connection..."
  – Lauren Weinberg [30:09]

14. Brands Using AI Well

(31:49 – 32:52)

• Peloton: Using AI to personalize the product experience and coaching.
• Doordash: Advanced AI in analytics for real-time scenario planning.

15. Who’s Next?

(33:07)

• Lauren recommends Mike Zieman, CMO of Life360, for a future podcast feature.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On brand-building in the AI era:
  "If everybody uses AI to develop all their content and everything is the same, the brands that are truly authentic, differentiated and stay true to who they are...that requires humanity and human beings in the loop..."
  – Lauren Weinberg [30:44]

• On the CMO’s responsibility:
  "A good marketer should be the first person to say when a spend doesn't make sense, when it's too big, or when it's too small."
  – Lauren Weinberg [00:30] & [14:49]

• On team learning:
  "Create learning days for your teams that expand beyond maybe the one enterprise agreement... let them get into all of the other tools..."
  – Lauren Weinberg [06:25]

• On hiring:
  "I always say I look for the three Cs, which is conviction, courage and curiosity."
  – Lauren Weinberg [27:37]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:00 — How AI may increase brand storytelling and humanity.
• 05:30 — The intersection of data and communication in marketing education.
• 08:51 — Lessons from Peloton: clarity, strategy, and saying no.
• 13:24 — Marketing fundamentals across industries.
• 17:13 — The CMO's role in AI adoption and experimentation.
• 20:54 — Evolving CMO relationship with the C-suite in the age of AI.
• 23:19 — The importance of ethics and bias in AI.
• 24:33 — Agency consolidation and CMOs’ shifting strategies.
• 26:13 — Building AI-savvy internal marketing teams.
• 29:51 — Underestimated trends: AI as a force for greater humanity.
• 31:49 — Brands using AI effectively: Peloton and Doordash.
• 33:07 — Who’s next: Mike Zieman, CMO of Life360.

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Episode Takeaways

• AI and humanity are not opposites—done right, technology will bring marketers back to “authentic storytelling.”
• CMOs must champion hands-on experimentation and interdisciplinary team learning in AI.
• Clear, focused strategies (and the courage to say ‘no’) are crucial for team morale and effectiveness in volatile times.
• The CMO's business acumen, especially around financial impact, is more important than ever.
• Agency partnerships are shifting, with increased internalization and a preference for boutique, nimble partners.
• The next decade is poised for unprecedented transformation, but marketers should see it as a chance for authentic connection, creativity, and growth.

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For marketers and leaders navigating the tension between technology and connection, Lauren Weinberg’s perspective is clear: the future belongs to brands—and teams—who combine cutting-edge experimentation with the timeless art of human storytelling.

Transcript

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bullspend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

[Lauren Weinberg]

I remember telling my boss it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, it it wasn't.

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Cut The Bull Spend LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Lauren Weinberg]

A good marketer should be the first person to say when a spend doesn't make sense, when it's too big, or when it's too small. The fundamentals are how can you drive growth? How do you keep the team focused? Where's it going to come from? How do you drive the insights about the audiences and where growth will come from back into the product to make sure that you are selling a product that's actually going to be there and meet the needs of your future customers.

[Jenny Rooney]

Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney with Adweek and I'm thrilled today to be joined by Lauren Weinberg. Lauren is a long time, many times CMO at companies including Square and Intuit and most recently Peloton. She's an advisor to Adora, she's doing some other independent consulting and she is someone who I know personally has tremendous passion for this thing called AI and how it's going to disrupt marketing and how CMOs need to think about it. So Lauren, Lauren, welcome.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Thank you for having me.

[Jenny Rooney]

Jenny, listen, I love that you're a practitioner, right? You are first and foremost a practitioner. You're a cmo. You have actually been leading some of the world's foremost brands and businesses forward in chief Marketing Officer roles. You know what it's like to be on the front lines. You know what it means to make key decisions. What is it about the moment we're living in now that gets you most excited? I'm going to spin this as a very positive about the CMO role.

[Lauren Weinberg]

I mean, the CMO role is always hard and I don't think it's ever been harder potentially than it is right now. But what gets me the most excited is the way that I think AI will bring more humanity to marketing. And I know that's probably the opposite of how a lot of people see it, but as I've spent more time thinking about LLMs and AI and how they work, I actually think it's a time where we'll see a Shift back to brands, authentic storytelling, establishing credibility and doing some of the work that I know A lot of CMOs, including myself, are very passionate about doing. And so if you think about the last decade as being really this decade of search and a lot of short term performance marketing really driving most of the conversation, I think we're pivoting back and the way consumers will discover brands through AI and through the LLMs and actually will lend itself to more brand building and storytelling. So I'm really excited about what that means and how AI will level the playing field for smaller companies. So those are the things that get me fired up about being a CMO.

[Jenny Rooney]

So you actually think that LLMs are actually going to invite more storytelling or create opportunity for more storytelling on the part of brands?

[Lauren Weinberg]

I do, because the way that the LLMs work is that they cite from third party and first party content sources and they're richer sources. And so I think for brands to get that coverage that they need to be cited by the LLMs, they need to be telling great stories, they need to be creating content, they need to be creating opportunities for their story to show up in third party publications because that's what those models prioritize. So I do, you know, it's interesting

[Jenny Rooney]

and I'm totally going off script. I'm just so fascinated with all of this and especially given your vantage point. But I'm going back a ways maybe to like 20. Gosh, I think it was like 2000 and tens. And we spent a lot of time at that time talking about all these big companies. Brand companies were building in house content studios, in house content factories, if you will. Right, in house content agencies. In fact, journalists were going to work for them at the time because it was an alternative to traditional media. You could actually go to Coca Cola and work in their content engine or Pepsi or you would know better than. I like where we are with that phenomenon now that we're in 26. But does that actually necessitate that being reprioritized at marketing organizations?

[Lauren Weinberg]

I don't know. I think that's an area where you could also use AI to help you just scale those operations. I think one of the challenges with that model is that it was really expensive and timely. And so I do think that it'll be interesting to see how that comes back, but in a maybe a more efficient and better way with the, I would say the supplement of AI resources just to help make that more scalable.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, obviously all of this also begs the question, how do CMOs get educated on this. How does fundamentally marketing education need to continue to evolve? You're an advisor for Emory University, is that correct?

[Lauren Weinberg]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Rooney]

Do you spend a lot of time with them talking about marketing curriculum?

[Lauren Weinberg]

I do spend a lot of time with them. I'm actually on the board of one of their departments that it's called the Data Science and Decision department. And so it's really about exactly this topic, which is how do you train students to be future marketers? So think about, like, this intersection of data and communications and how it all works together. So I actually spend a lot of time talking to their students, talking to them, thinking about what the curriculum needs to be. And the reason that they brought me on, most of the people on the department are really the data scientists. I went to Emory and I was an English and journalism major. And so I bring the other point of view, which is that just having that coding and technical skill set isn't enough to be a great leader. And it's the ability to communicate that makes you really strong. And so they are trying to train future leaders around how to think about the role of humans and humanity and communications, and how do you blend that with some of the technical side of things as well? So that's really fun. And I think just back to your first question, because I get asked this question a lot by other CMOs, and the best way to learn is to just get into the tools. And, you know, when I left Peloton, I've been taking classes. I'm in another class right now. I think being part of an AI study group is a great way to have some accountability and to learn with other people so you can talk about what you're experiencing. But I also think more than anything, it's just getting into the tools. And so my counsel to other CMOs is Create Learning days for your teams that that expand beyond maybe the one enterprise agreement that your company has with a specific tool and allow people the opportunity to create prompts that everyone can do together, let them get into all of the other tools, because there isn't a winner yet. I think a lot of people can guess on who they think the winners will be, but we're still really early on in this space. And I think how I'm starting to use AI is I use different tools for different purposes. And I think as people get more sophisticated around their use of AI, they will also use specific tools for different purposes. And for marketers, it's important to understand how people are using different tools. And if you're not Using them. It's just like being in the channels. As a marketer, I'm in every channel. I'm on everything. When something new comes out, I get on it immediately because I don't know how, you know, what good looks like on that channel if you're never in that channel yourself. And I think that same thing is true for AI. And so I think just creating opportunities for teams to learn and it's hard. It's hard when you're in an operating role. It's hard when you're dealing with just the day to day realities of everything that you and your team have on your plate. But I do think it's the responsibility of the leaders in the space that just have a half a day of learning where you get into AI and talk about it together. I think that would be so beneficial for teams.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Because you learn by doing, right?

[Lauren Weinberg]

Yeah.

[Jenny Rooney]

And I think there's just a lot of talk about this right now in the industry. You know, we're just off of CES and it seems to have tempered into a nice grounding around AI. You know, generally speaking, there isn't as much alarmist sort of attitude about it. So that's actually putting us in a really great position where I feel like there's going to be a lot more openness to adoption and to the experimentation that you're talking about. I mean, you just, you have to have sort of the culture at a certain place in order to welcome it in. Let's now talk a little bit about the work that you had done at Peloton. You know, that was during a time of intense transformation, budget discipline, et cetera. How did you balance the brand building with these financial constraints? And what did the world teach you about leading in times of business? Volatility? That to me is something that's as. As relevant today as ever.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Yeah. So I would say being at Peloton required a lot of discipline and focus and going in there. I would say it was clear to me early on where there was some low hanging fruit. As a Peloton member, I would say I felt that the marketing didn't match the experience that I was having as a member.

[Jenny Rooney]

That is so common. That's more common, not just with Peloton, but more often than not you find that generally.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Yeah. And so I had this very strong desire for people to better understand the full experience and the value that they could get out of it. So a lot of what we had to do while I was at Peloton was Expand demand for their products and services with new audiences, with new products to help people get beyond this idea that it's just a bike. And so to do that, we had to do brand building, and we had to do performance marketing. And it was easier than I thought it would be. If I'm being honest, I think there was an incredible leadership team at pelotonla. I was there, and the CFO in particular was someone that I worked really well with. And when I got there, I said, I just think everything you're doing is hitting diminishing return, and you have to create more demand so that you can capture that demand more effectively in the future. And she understood that and was aligned with that. And so we had to do all of that with less money and fewer resources. But I think we were clear on the strategy, which was to build up that demand ahead of those moments of promotion for peloton, to help people really understand the experience and the outcomes that they could achieve. Not just that there was hardware and what the price would be for it, as well as just to put peloton back in the cultural zeitgeist again in a way that it just hadn't been for a little while. And so that team there was an incredible team, and there was just a lot going on. I would say when I walked in the door, there just so many different things. It's a brand where I've never had more inbound interest from athletes, celebrities, musicians. And so that's really fun and exciting. But when you don't have a strategy, it's hard to know what to say no to. And so a big part of what I did was say, this is where we're focused. This is the strategy. And then when those other things came up, it was easy to say, that's not for right now. It doesn't mean we'll never do it, but it's not core to the strategy of what we're trying to achieve. And I feel like that was really something that the team needed, and it just created a lot of clarity and focus and helped them not feel so overwhelmed by all the work that had to get done.

[Jenny Rooney]

I think that's such an important point because I feel like people feel obliged to say yes to everything or fear of what could be lost. And saying no to something holds people back from probably doing exactly what you were pushing them to do, which is just be judicious, like, be choiceful in what we say yes to. That's a hard thing to get people to get comfortable with.

[Lauren Weinberg]

It is. But I would say the number one complaint when I got there was just there's too much work and there's not enough people. And so we had to say we're going to have to start saying no to some of the stuff. And I said, great, you've done a lot. Let's go through what we're learning about the things that we're doing. And there wasn't enough learning. There was a lot of doing and just moving on to the next. And it's true, it's hard to say no because the things that come in are really fun and interesting and exciting. And that's, to me, the part where strategy really comes into play. Because if you don't have a strategy, it is very hard to know what to say yes to and what to say no to because it becomes very subjective. What am I interested in? What do I think is cool versus is this on point for the strategy? Is it accretive to the goals that we're trying to achieve as a team? And once you have that, it just becomes your litmus test of should we be doing this or should we not be doing it? And that, I think, is what the team was craving. That really helped them, I think, stay focused. It was always felt very intense there and there was always a lot of work to be done, but I think it was gave them more permission to say no than they had before.

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bullspend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

[Lauren Weinberg]

I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, it wasn't.

[LinkedIn Advertiser]

Cut The Bull Spend LinkedIn lets you target by company job title and More. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Jenny Rooney]

Okay, so that's peloton and obviously what had become quickly a very iconic brand intuit. As I mentioned, Square and before that, Yahoo and mtv, each with very different audiences and growth challenges. Looking back, what pattern or skill set do you see that consistently helped you succeed across all of those contexts? And even now, as you prep for a future role, I think it's always

[Lauren Weinberg]

staying grounded in what the business needs and what are the business outcomes that you need to achieve and then making sure that everything that you're doing is really tied back to that. To me, that's always been the common thread for me, which is really understanding. And when you Move from, as I did, media to fintech to fitness. It's really understanding your primary revenue drivers, which audiences are going to drive that revenue, where's growth going to come from and having a point of view around that. And to me that's the part that's the fundamentals of marketing that stay true no matter what industry or vertical you go to. For me, it's always really fun to learn a new space. And especially going from media to square was a really steep learning curve of just understanding a whole new ecosystem, a whole new nomenclature of terms. But it was actually really exciting and fun because the margins on that business were so different than the margins on a media business. And then you go to fitness and it's different there as well. And so to me, I enjoy that part of really understanding what are the differences. But the fundamentals are, as a marketer, you should always be thinking about how you're going to drive growth in the business, where the revenue is going to come from and the best way to do that. And also just being mindful of how does your budget fit into the company's overall P and L. Because as marketers we always want more money. And I think the thing that I've learned over time is that there's a time and a place where that budget doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit into the PNL of the overall business. And a good marketer should be the first person to say when a spend doesn't make sense, when it's too big or when it's too small. So I think you have to advocate on both sides of it. But if you ask me, the fundamentals are how can you drive growth? How do you keep the team focused? Where's it going to come from? How do you drive the insights about the audiences and where growth will come from back into the product to make sure that you are selling a product that's actually going to be there and meet the needs of your future customers.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. It was funny. I interviewed a CMO the other day who also has a GM title and so she has P and L ownership and that was a such a different shift for her. I mean, it changes your take on what does it mean to take a risk, a creative risk. It changes your perspective on the things that you might do otherwise as a CMO without P and L responsibility. Now suddenly it's a much more complex decision making process to arrive at the strategy, at the execution. So it's very interesting.

[Lauren Weinberg]

And even if you don't have P and L responsibility. I think having P and L sensibility is still really important and so you don't have to own the P and L to understand, understand how your budget fits into the P L and I do think that's something that now is demanded of CMOs. They have to understand that otherwise you're not going to be able to have a conversation with the rest of your C suite and your cfo because you're going to seem out of touch with the realities of the business.

[Jenny Rooney]

Totally. You know, you talk about the sensibility, the P and L sensibility, and going back now to the AI sensibility and responsibility. Tell me a little bit more about just what your view, more broadly of the role of the CMO in driving the overall AI agenda for a company, full stop, should be.

[Lauren Weinberg]

So I think we touched on this a little bit, but I do think that the CMO should be really making sure that their teams are engaging in all of the places that consumers are engaging with AI. So as a cmo, I always try to be in every channel and I think that right now a lot of companies are signing enterprise agreements with one of the LLMs. And I think it's the CMO's responsibility to make sure their team has experience, or at least has some sense of what the experience is like in all of those tools, because we don't know who the winner will be yet. It's still really early days. People are starting to figure out which tools they use for each purpose. And so it's important for the CMOs to be making sure that they are really leading the charge on their teams understanding how to spend time with these tools. I think the other part is that it's still early days in AI. A lot of the information in AI isn't right and there's still a lot of mistakes. And so I think the other important piece of the training from the CMO is helping teams with discernment. How do they make sure that they're getting good information out of AI. Where's human always in the loop? I think right now, AI, you need a human in the loop for everything. Still, I can't think of anything where I would feel comfortable without there being some human touch point on any workflow that goes through AI. And so I think it's also important for leaders to establish what are those guardrails? And help people see and understand that there's hallucinations in AI models, there's creative that doesn't look quite right yet, and so it's amazing what the technology can do. Truly Incredible. Saves so much time and creates so many efficiencies, but it's not perfect yet. And I think that's the part of making sure teams really understand where they come in, what role they should be playing and how to spend time in those tools and to create the space actually in the workday to provide the training for teams. Because asking people to do it in their free time is, I think, just going to be hard for people to find the time to do. And doing it in a group setting where you can actually talk about what you're seeing and what you're learning. Is it just, in my opinion, a much better way to learn?

[Jenny Rooney]

What about the cmo butting in with the CFO and the CEO in terms of thinking holistically about, you know, this is what our company needs to be, full stop. And how, you know, AI needs to be thinking about the role it plays. Like, I just feel like this is an opportunity for CMOs to have, you know, we always talk about the voice at the table and being not just a respondent to what's happening and the decisions that a CEO is making, but obviously working part and parcel with the CEO around the why and the investments that a given company is making. What have you experienced or what have you heard? Because now more than ever, CEOs and CFOs might be looking to the CMO and saying, okay, what should we do?

[Lauren Weinberg]

What's interesting is I haven't been in an operating role in the past six months and the pace of change is so quick that probably this has changed so much even since I was at Peloton. But what I would say is that before it felt like the conversation was really around the CEO and the CFO demanding more efficiency from marketing. It feels to me like that conversation has started to change. And so it started as marketing. You should be able to do more with less to. I think now a place of marketing has more of a seat at the table in terms of just thinking through the company's overall AI strategy and hopefully convincing the CEO and the CFO and the board that it's not necessarily a do more with less, it's a do more. I don't necessarily think it's with less. I think AI gives you the ability to do more quickly, to be able to test and learn and get to better outcomes more quickly, but not necessarily completely replacing humans. So I think that conversation has changed, but I couldn't say for sure because I haven't been in the role and we've never seen anything change as fast as AI is changing. And so that's my hot take on it at the moment, is that I think we went from demands of efficiency to now it's a much more strategic conversation and hopefully a conversation that's also about how do brands show up, what's the role of discoverability and how will consumers discover brands in an AI driven world and what does that mean for how we think about our marketing and go to market strategy and our overall investments? So again, that's the piece that I'm excited about because to me it definitely builds a case for brand building. Really having a clear sense of who you are and how you show up in the world in a credible way is very important, probably more important than it has been in a while.

[Jenny Rooney]

I think also as we get more actual real world case studies out in the universe for other marketers to learn from, see, touch, feel like, dig into, I think that's going to be really helpful because right now it feels too like a lot of the conversation might be very theoretical or it might be very focused on the potential as opposed to actually what has happened. And so I feel like once we also kind of start to move more directionally towards real world case studies and we have things that CMOs can share amongst themselves as points of reference, that's going to be really valuable as well.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Yeah. Because there's also a lot of tools that are not great. And so I think figuring out what's good, what really works for you. There's so many AI companies that have started recently, so there probably will be just a lot of discussion among CMOs once they've gotten a chance to test and learn and experiment with the tools to figure out which ones really rise to the top and will stick and

[Jenny Rooney]

what's hype and what's right. I mean, that's going to be so important too. How much time have you spent around ethical considerations of AI and building it without bias, that sort of thing that I think has deep implications. And I think it's something that obviously we have had conversations about. I don't know personally where we are in that continuum and what you've seen on that front.

[Lauren Weinberg]

I would say I haven't spent as much time there. I did initially, I think in listening to a lot of. I really like Lenny's podcast and just hearing from various leaders and hearing from people at Anthropic in particular, how much they think about the safety piece of it and the role that they will play in shaping humanity in the future. And so it was actually the thing that got Me most interested in starting to experiment with Claude more was hearing their point of view on that. And so I don't think we're talking about that as much as we probably should be. And I think it's very important for all of us and how we think about what the future looks like.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, no, absolutely. So now let's shift gears a little bit. And I'm kind of loving that I get to talk to you when you're between roles, because I think there's an opportunity for you to talk, you know, perhaps a little more candidly. Totally switching gears. Lots going on in the agency universe. I mean, just the consolidation that's happening. The headlines of the recent weeks are pretty tremendous. Do you have thoughts, perspective, reaction to what's happening and how CMOs are thinking about their agency partners right now and how they're perhaps even rethinking their relationships with agencies at this time?

[Lauren Weinberg]

I mean, it's crazy. I would say it's a very crazy time. And if I'm being honest, I will say I think a lot of CMOs are thinking about how they can reduce their dependency on agencies, because again, I don't think you can take humans out of the equation. It's very challenging, challenging as a CMO when you have multiple agency relationships. And so I still think there's a very important role that agencies play. But if there's a way to speed up and to reduce the number of agencies that you work with, and I do think AI can be very useful in that front, it's not surprising that we're seeing so much shifting and consolidating, but it remains to be seen where we end up and how. It seems to me that some of the boutique agencies are faring better during this time, probably because they have the ability to just be more nimble and flexible, which I think is what is required in this moment of time where we're seeing this just tremendous transformation and adoption of new technology that can take the place of some of the intermediaries in the process, that make the process slow and expensive?

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah, I mean, it's material, right? I mean, I think we're actually realizing the fact that this is going to create such a shift specifically to that point as well. What about from an internal teams now? The companion to that is, you know, if that's sort of how CMOs are thinking about the agency relationships, what about internal teams and the talent that they need both in house and what else can they just contract for? You know, when you think about the talent shift, that's happening right now?

[Lauren Weinberg]

Well, I know that there's a lot of conversation about the fact that it's really hard for people who are just getting started because some of the entry level jobs are the ones that are the easiest for AI to replace. And I would say a counterpoint to that is that it's really the people in that demographic that are truly AI natives. And so I can see a really important role for bringing people like that into the organization because they are just better at using AI. And so, you know, I think the things that I think about looking for probably don't change that much. I just think people need to have a growth mindset. They need to be curious about how they can adopt things and do things differently. I think that the challenge will be with people who are very rigid because everything is changing. And I think there's a lot of experimentation that needs to be done for us to determine what, where does AI come into the workflows, what are the really good use cases, where does it not work? But if people aren't even willing to try or experiment or to learn, to me that's the biggest problem. So having that growth mindset, that experimentation mindset, being willing to try different things. And then for me, whenever I'm hiring, I always say I look for the three Cs, which is conviction, courage and curiosity. And so obviously curiosity, just this idea that there's a whole new world out there, a new way of doing things, and people should be curious enough to want to try them. Also, I think being in marketing requires a ton of conviction and courage, because especially for me, in the roles that I've had at Square, we were doing things that were never been done before. And that was a period of tremendous growth and scale, but it was also a period of maturity for the business and having to really transform the way that business thought about marketing. At Peloton, it was a turnaround, but you're not going to get a different result if you keep running the same playbook. And so to really change the playbook requires courage and conviction, because there's always, in a large organization, this desire to keep things the same, to do things the way you've always done them. And so a lot of times it feels like you're swimming upstream trying to convince people to do things in a different way. I always tell people on my team, if you don't have conviction around your idea, you're never going to sell it into the rest of the organization. And so I'm going to push back on you and play devil's advocate. And I want you to come to me with a lot of conviction behind your ideas because that's what you're going to need when we go in and talk about it with the rest of the company, because it's scary for organizations to make those changes.

[Jenny Rooney]

Yeah. I mean, your point about the big companies, I mean, do you think this is a huge opportunity for smaller, more renegade companies to kind of gain some ground at this time?

[Lauren Weinberg]

Yeah, I do. And that's one of the things I think that makes marketing really fun right now, is that it's not even necessarily just for smaller companies. I think it's for big companies that want to get into different areas that have been really hard competitively. I do think AI levels the playing field for up and coming brands, but also for brands that want to pivot into different lines of business. It's been hard in the past because discovery was really predominantly through search and that required a lot of money and a lot of expertise. But I think in the AI world, it sort of opens the door, levels the playing field, and allows challenger brands to get in there in a way that they haven't been able to historically without the funds to compete.

[Jenny Rooney]

Given everything you're seeing now, both in technology and in marketer adoption, what's one emerging trend or pivot that you think most CMOs are underestimating right now?

[Lauren Weinberg]

Probably, I think it's a lot of what I've talked about already, and I do think it has changed, even in the last couple of months. But it's this fear of losing humanity. I actually think it's going to do the opposite. I think that everyone's so worried about marketing to robots and the loss of human connection, and I actually feel like we're seeing a pivot back to more humanity, this desire for more connection. And so I am seeing more of that. But I still think it's the thing that people are not seeing about this that makes me really excited about what this change will bring. And. And as someone who's been defending brand building ideas and budgets for the last decade, I actually think it's going to be a little bit easier for me in the next role that I take to have those conversations. Because everybody seems to be at least moving closer to a direction where they understand how important it is if everybody uses AI to develop all their content and everything is the same, the brands that are truly authentic, differentiated and stay true to who they are. And to do that, you actually have to know who you are. And that requires humanity and human beings in the loop and so I am really excited about that and this whole next chapter. I do think that there's a lot of fear in the industry. And so I would say that this time off has been a gift for me to really go deep and learn about these things. And it's just given me a different perspective. Whereas I think before I maybe was a little bit more fearful of the changes, I now am actually really excited about what this means for marketing for brands. And I think the next decade is going to be an incredible period of just transformation and change, but one that hopefully brings more humanity back into marketing.

[Jenny Rooney]

I love that. Last two quick questions. What are some brands? And I get asked this all the time. What are some brands that you think have employed AI in a really good way?

[Lauren Weinberg]

There's so many and it's hard to know exactly like who's doing it in a really good way.

[Jenny Rooney]

I mean, there's so many different ways

[Lauren Weinberg]

of so many different ways. Right. If I just think about Peloton, I think Peloton's using AI in a really good way in terms of transforming the product experience to help give people more real time coaching and feedback. And so that's really interesting. Much more personalized plans that are built on the outcomes that people want to achieve. I know that at Doordash because I'm friends with Ko Fi, that they're just doing an amazing job of automating their work streams. And the way that they use AI in their analytics is something that I really want to learn more about him from. Because the thing about analytics today is that, you know, you will have an MMM model and you get an outcome from that. But if you could actually use AI to ask questions and to build different scenarios and to be able to do that in real time, to me that's something that just makes those tools so much more useful. And it seems like they are doing an amazing job of that at Doordash.

[Jenny Rooney]

Love that. Great examples. Last quick question. I ask this of every guest on my podcast. Who's next? Who's a CMO that I should have on the show? And this can be somebody you admire from afar, or it can be somebody that you know really, really well and you just think they're doing some extraordinary things.

[Lauren Weinberg]

If you don't know him, I would say Mike zieman. He's the CMO of Life360. We work together at Square. I think they're doing some incredible work. He is an amazing marketer. He's a very smart, very nice guy. So if you're not talking to him or planning to have him on the show. He's someone that I would definitely talk to.

[Jenny Rooney]

Okay, Mike, if you're listening, I'll be reaching out at Lauren's suggestion. Thank you so much, Lauren. This has been a pleasure as always to talk to you, to really pick your brain about all these things because as you said, you know, you're a practitioner, but you've spent time and being between roles gave you that opportunity to go deep on certainly the world of AI. And I just think it's so insightful of you to share your experience, your learnings and frankly your advice with the rest of the CMO community. And I know you do that in countless ways. So thank you so much and let's talk again really soon.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Thank you so much, Jenny. This was really fun and thank you for having me on your show. I really appreciate it.

[Jenny Rooney]

Terrific. Talk soon.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Bye. Thank you for listening to Marketing Vanguard, part of the Ad Week Podcast Network and Acast Creator Network.

[Jenny Rooney]

You can listen and subscribe to all of Adweek's podcast by visiting adweek.com podcasts.

[Lauren Weinberg]

Stay updated on all things Adweek Podcast Network by following us on Twitter Dweek

[Jenny Rooney]

Podcasts and if you have a question

[Lauren Weinberg]

or suggestion for the show, send us an [e-mail] thanks for listening.

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