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Marketing Vanguard
Reimagining Creative Leadership: Inside PepsiCo's Creative Evolution with Chris Bellinger
00:25:46
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- [00:00]
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A
It's a new era of content creation. The fact that you've got these really high end creators that are out there that have the technology and the access and the skill set to create content is pretty interesting.
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B
Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard Podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney here at Adweek and I am thrilled today to be joined by Chris Bellinger. He's the Chief Creative Officer of PepsiCo. Chris, welcome.
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A
Thank you very much. Glad to be here.
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B
So Chris, let's talk about this. You're the first chief creative officer for PepsiCo Foods, is that correct?
- [01:55]
A
That is correct.
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B
And so listen, I know Pepsi is just an incredible organization filled with incredible marketing talent and absolutely phenomenal marketing leaders. So how do you fit into that puzzle? Let's start there.
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A
Yeah, I mean, they definitely made a mistake. I am not one of those marketers, but I think it's a really unique role.
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B
They're in great company. They're in great company now.
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A
Yes, I appreciate that. You know, it's a really unique role. So I think it's a big push right now for the value of creativity and what that means to our consumers and our brands and the value that it brings to like building brands that can, you know, survive all of these different environments and the consumer segments. And you know, diversification of even cohorts and our consumers. So PepsiCo Foods has a wildly wide range of brands from the Quaker brands and the Frito Lay brands and probably more than you even know that exist within the PepsiCo Foods brand share.
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B
Some of those, like what are on people's cupboard cabinets that they may not realize are part of the portfolio.
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A
Yeah. So I mean, obviously, like, starting with Quaker, you've got the Quaker Master brands, good old Larry, Larry the Quaker guy, you've got Cap'n Crunch, Life cereal, we have Health Warrior, we have Bear chips. And then on the Frito Lay side, we jokingly say it's all the Itos, the Tostitos, Fritos, Cheetos, Doritos, Lays Popcorners, Smart Food, rolled Gold Jack Links as a part, we have a joint venture with them. I mean, there's. There's so many different brands that exist out of the portfolio that it's never a dull moment. And I think, thankfully, what we've pushed is that creativity is kind of at the heart of a lot of that, and it's in building great brands that can, you know, develop and survive and make connections with consumers. And so my role has been to kind of help to elevate that creative IQ across the entire company. And I get to work with some of the best brand teams in the world and best agencies in the world in order to make a lot of that come to life.
- [03:51]
B
So let's talk about that. How are you guys defining creativity? I know that might sound like a silly question, but I feel like creativity is a word that's used often, but it might mean different things depending on who you are in the organization. You know, it could be creative processes, it could be creative thinking, it could be, you know, creative platforms. It could be, yes, the actual creative execution. How are you thinking about defining creativity in this context?
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A
I think in this context, creative is in. Creativity is literally all of that. So the short answer is yes, and it is any and all of those things, because it can be anything from a social post to a new piece of innovation to putting out the look and feel in partnership with our design team is going to be looking like what it's going to be when we make a TV commercial or OLV content. It could be a creative strategy. It could be positioning. It could be a, hey, have we ever thought of a brand in this way? And does that push it out beyond what it's normally like, beyond the pack? So I think as we define creativity, it really is focused on any of those things that have that creative nudge to it and whether that could be internal in process and how we operate and how we structure our teams all the way to the things that consumers touch and engage with every single day.
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B
What's changed about. Because so many of those brands you cited have been around for years and years and the typical path to purchase in the past, you know, historically has been one thing. Obviously it's been massively disrupted since then with the advent of so many platforms and social and creators and everything else. You know, at this moment, how is PepsiCo Foods thinking about, you know, reaching those consumers in new ways? And what's sort of been the fundamental shift that you're seeing? And in turn, how do you need to respond and how does the creative need to show up against that shift?
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A
Yeah, I mean, it's funny, even just over the last five years. So I've been with the company for six years now and I was with the company for a long time before then on the outside as an agency kid. So then I kind of, you know, crossed over into the dark zone, as they say, and joined the in house components to it. And even over those last five, six years, it has been a massive shift. Obviously we had a lot of things going on the last five years.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And consumers and their purchase behaviors and their consumption material and even just how they consume media has been such a drastic change that it's moving at the speed of culture and we have to keep up with that because what worked yesterday is not going to work today and it definitely won't work tomorrow. So the creativity piece of that really kind of evolves with that of how are consumers consuming content is what messages are they really resonating with? How do they want to engage with a brand on a regular basis? Do they want to engage with brand on a regular basis? There's plenty of times we see that consumers actually don't want you to talk to them. They're inundated with content every single day. There's no shortage. It's the golden era of content right now. How many streaming platforms are there? How many new social media platforms pop up every six weeks? And having to stay on the forefront of that is challenging. And on top of having to manage a brand, that's where the creativity really comes into play is that you have people that are dedicated and, you know, committed to looking for what are those creative outlets for this brand and where can we pull different components in at the right time and give a new voice to our brand? Because our brand should have different tones of voices depending on which platform? Lot. And I think some brands do a really great job of that. And some I think are still taking a one size fits all approach, which I think is going to catch up with them.
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B
So share an example of something that you're doing or have done recently. Just share just one example of how you're thinking about that.
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A
Yeah, I mean, I think look at any of our big brands. So the Lays, Doritos and Cheetos, I think you have our giant national campaigns that we operate. But then on social media you may see a very different tonality in terms of it's still going to feel very inherently like a Cheetos or a Doritos. But the level of familiarity that we're able to talk to on social, I can talk more of a one to one friend. On a national new product launch scale of super bowl like we just did, you know, last year with dinamita, with Dina and Mita, it just has a different feel of when you're talking to 300 million people versus when I'm talking to a million people on social who follow me every day. And it's no different than how you would operate at a family function versus your close friend function versus a corporate function.
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B
Yep.
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A
Uh, it's all still you. It's just the different versions of you that you're playing up depending on who your audience is.
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B
So it's context, it's people, it's timing, it's all of that. I have to share a funny story this has kept with me all these years. So it's about Fritos and so I'm a proud Gen X kid. And I remember there was a TV commercial that would come on for Fritos and it was about a kid who would sit down to his plate for lunch. His mom served him a sandwich and it was a pretty dull sandwich until mom poured the bag of Fritos on the side and suddenly it just all of a sudden lunch was exciting to him. And that jingle was, you know, fritos go with lunch. And like it's kind of a crazy metaphor, but I've actually take. This is kind of a True Confessions thing, which is nutty. But like, that stuck with me because I think it's a metaphor for life. Like you are always going to have to do the hard work.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But if you can have something and kind of enjoy something along the way and find sort of that treat that brings joy to an otherwise mundane task, or in this case eating a sandwich, it just makes everything better. So anyway. Very funny. I don't know if you know that commercial.
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A
We do know that commercial. Absolutely. Yeah.
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B
I think it's your revive.
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A
That's awesome.
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B
I think there's some historical value there for. For some of us. But, I mean, you make moments like that, you make people remember those things. So how do you make sure you're continuing to do things that, like, reach people in the moment, but then also resonate and last, and continue to sort of build? I mean, that's the classic balance. Right, that every marketer is trying to figure.
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A
Absolutely.
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B
So how do you think about that?
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A
Yeah, I mean, it's a definite, consistent challenge because there's a certain message you have to deliver and kind of that lower funnel component stuff of creativity where, hey, there's some things where I just. I need to let you know that a product exists. I need to let you know what the benefits of the product are.
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B
Sure.
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A
And those are probably not going to be the ones that, like, really resonate with you. Now, in a perfect world, you have that brass ring of you tell a great, entertaining story with a great product message that resonates, and it. It becomes a part of, like, your own personal journey. And you're like, like you said, you still remember that spot and you still talk about it with the jingle of Fritos, go well with lunch. That's what we're always trying to do. And so I think it's a matter of, do you have the right people on the team that understand the fundamentals of what the human existence is and can they actually tap into those timeless human truths? But how do you make them timely? And I think that's the challenge, too, is like, how do you evolve a brand without taking away what people remember and love about the brand? Brand? And that's a very real challenge that a lot of our brand teams are going through right now, and all of our agencies and creative teams are actively working on. But we've got these iconic, nostalgic, historic brands that you talk, depending on who you talk to, they view it very, very differently because they're like, well, I grew up with this brand. This person's like, I've never had this flavor before, so I have no emotional attachment to it. And how do you tell a story that's going to resonate with both of those people in a way that's going to continue to keep the brand forward? And. But at the same time, that's always the fun challenge. That's always. The next thing that goes around is like, all right, well, this worked today, but now what's Going to work tomor.
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B
Yeah. So you mentioned agencies. You came from the agency world, work with external agencies. You were the first time, you know, Pepsi Kofu's hired a chief Creative officer. How are you thinking about the dynamic of what you do vis a vis your agency partners?
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A
Yeah, so I've the benefit or burden. I've got two jobs, so I get to do both. The chief Creative officer role where I get to work with all of the brands for all of creative, with the internal and the external teams. And then I also have an Internal Agency Team D3 that has been building and being a part of that, you know, in housing wave. That's been happening.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So it's finding the balance between the two of those. And I always say, hey, at the end of the day I just want to do cool shit and I don't care who brings it or whose idea it is, because that's what we're trying to do and that's what we're trying to bring into the world. So the dynamics are wanting to find really great agency partners that don't have that level of ego, that are just wanting to do great work and work on great brands and they're willing to take the swing and the risk of saying, hey, I don't know if this is going to work, but would it be awesome if it did? And at the same time have a fundamental understanding of the business. So we're always on the lookout for great agency partners that we can build those long term relationships with that are going to help me, you know, break through the clutter because again, I'm competing for your time and attention. There's only 24 hours of the day. You're probably only awake for 18 of those hours of the day. Of those 18 hours, how many of that time are you actively wanting to watch advertising? Yeah, and so it's. What can we do to create that kind of content, those kind of ideas and those type of consumer connection points and really great agency partners or how we're going to do that because there is no one agency that can do it all. It's just too bifurcated and out there and, you know, too many different ways of executing that. You got to find someone that has a superpower.
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B
So you really are looking at the collective, if you will, the collective of agencies that you're working with, plus your internal teams and making sure that you're sort of amassing, if you will, a collective of great talent that you can then sort of, you know, pull upon or, or tap, depending on what the Remit is right.
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A
Absolutely. We always say, hey, this is an Avengers movie. It's not a one off superhero movie.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Because you know, there's just so much work and there's so many brands and there's so many ways to, you know, make that connection point that you've got to have a really great team and a diverse and broad team of agency partners, enhanced, talented brand teams, all the cross functionals. That's when things really start to go well. And at the same time it's, you know, always being on the lookout for who is willing to take a swing and who does have a really good idea.
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B
Yep. So I know that it's November, but we at adweek are already thinking about the super bowl in February.
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A
Oh yes. Right around the corner.
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B
It is right around the corner in ad world. So let's talk about that because obviously historically some of the biggest stars of the show have been Frito lay brands. And so talk about, you know, do you have any plans for and obviously Pepsi in general, you know, what are your plans for Super Bowl? How are you thinking about that? Tell us about maybe the work that's being done now in preparation for those in sort of the non ad world who would be curious to understand what goes into to all that.
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A
Yeah. So it's funny we jokingly say like the super bowl is our super bowl. Yeah. It's a literal for us, you know, it's the only time of the year that 200 million people are actively excited about and looking for the ads.
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B
Totally.
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A
And it's just a really cool moment to create something on that stage where right, wrong or indifferent, you are going to be exposed to 200 million critics. Work management platforms.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Even when they've had a few drinks, which is another fun element to layer in.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But for this year, we did take a little bit of a different approach. So we've got Doritos and we had Doritos. We brought back the crash super bowl program, which is where we let consumers make the ads and they make them unedited, unfiltered. Whatever they make is what we're going to air and someone's going to win a million bucks. We ran that program for about 10 years. I was fortunate enough to work on it for all 10 years. But it's one of my first programs I worked on right out of college when I was on agency side.
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B
That's great.
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A
And so it's been a really cool kind of component to see come full circle where I jokingly said, you know, I was a junior on the outside when this first started and I get to be CCO on this when we bring it back to the inside. And. And very excited to see what consumers are going to bring because it's a whole new generation of content and it's what I know what we got before and I can't wait to see what we're going to get now.
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B
So when you guys are thinking about what's the planning cycle in general for a Super bowl, activate, you know, for showing up in the super bowl for a Super bowl spot, and then also, by the way, for anything on the ground that you might be doing, because for those who haven't been there, the super bowl itself is like a massive moment of opportunity for on the ground activation. So I'm just curious.
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A
Yeah.
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B
How far are we out in your planning process at this point?
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A
I mean, we're always talking about the next year. Okay. Yeah. Like even now, like, while we're really focused on having this year involved, but the moment that game ends, we start thinking about the next year and what those activations are, what brands we're talking about, how are we going to push together what our priorities and initiatives are. And then a massive team that is dedicated to the on site activation too. So already doing site visits and having ideas what we're going to bring to life and where what brands are going to be bringing things to life in different ways. You have to secure the space. Obviously. It's a very high volume driving attention area. Yeah. And the experiential piece of this is really something that's been, you know, cool to see, to come to life. And whenever someone goes to the super bowl or to the experience and hasn't been there, they're really blown away by just the sheer amount of activity that goes on around the game that's free. And it's not even really tied to anything other than just the excitement of that, that huge mainstay of Americana.
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B
It's such a spectacle. I have gone a couple times. It's really extraordinary. And until you go there, you know, because you do see what frankly the viewers at home are seeing something on the screen which is also extraordinary and it's massively conversation generating. But then to see how these brands have to show up and actually have to sort of use that moment for more than just what they put on the screens, it's quite astounding. I have to ask you this question and I want to move to questions about you as a leader within your organization, creators. I have to ask the creator question because for you as chief creative officer on the brand side, having been in agencies but also working with external agencies and thinking about creativity as a whole in the marketing advertising space, obviously the advent of creators is something that's very new and different. Obviously that has been, you know, the outgrowth, if you will, of social platforms. And now here we are. And so brands figuring out how to work with creators, who to work with in the creator sphere, those are all things that, you know, a lot of marketers are spending a lot of their time thinking about. How are you thinking about it?
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A
Yeah, I mean it's a new era, it's a new era of content creation. And so just having the fact that you've got these really high end creators that are out there that have the technology and the access and the skill set to create really great, amazing content is pretty interesting. And I think it's one that we tap into a lot of. We want our brands to have that real organic consumer creator content tonality to them. And so whether we're developing long term partnerships with them or we're tapping into them for new product launches, or even just ongoing evergreen social content, it's another tool to be able to use and to leverage. And the fact that these are real people that have their own tonalities and their own brands, it's fun to kind of engage with them in a unique way on our brand activations on a regular basis. And it's here to stay. I don't think creators are going to go away. I think with the, you know, the fact that in my pocket I have an entire film studio now within our phones. Yeah. And that you can create content extremely fast and extremely high end. It's something that we can't ignore. And it's also something that if you're going to ignore it and you're not paying attention to it, you're definitely going to get left behind because other brands are going to lean in very, very heavy. And brands that can create those long standing relationships with the right creators in the right way, they're going to build those follower bases and they're going to get the advantage of that. It's no different than celebrity endorsements from 10 years ago.
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B
Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about you. So you said you've been at the company for six years now.
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A
Yes.
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B
And previous to that you were at an agency?
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A
Yeah, I was at a couple different agencies and I started my own agency. I had the typical experience every ad kid has which is like, you know, it's other than it's either we should open a bar or we should open an agency. And so I chose the agency route and I was out there in the wild for about nine, 10 months and then Frito approached me and said, hey, why don't you do this internally? And at the time I said, hey, I'm not ready to retire yet. I'm not going to go in house. Like I'm good, I'm going to, I'm going to let this run and thought about it and the more I kind of thought about it and the more I was like, you know what, I love these brands. I really do miss a lot of these people. And worst case I get fired and I go start another agency. And so I signed up internally. It was Jen signed at the time she was the CMO and it was awesome.
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B
Not sure.
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A
Yeah, I mean it was really been an amazing run. It's more than anything I ever thought it would be. And at the time I just joined as VP of Creative and Digital and so the role didn't exist. Didn't know what the role would eventually turn into. And we turned the in house creative team from two people to a about 140 people and now I've got the. Yeah, so it's been an insane run and now I get the pleasure and opportunity to work with all the external Agencies on all the creative.
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B
Wow.
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A
So it was probably the single best failure I've ever had was the starting and abandoning my own agency.
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B
Oh my God, I love that. How quickly did you do that ramp up from two to over a hundred?
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A
From two to over 100 was about three years.
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B
Wow.
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A
And then over the last two and a half three years, we've added another about 50.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Wow.
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B
Amazing. And just curious, your educational background. Is this something that you know, I always love that question. I'm always fascinated with what people studied in college.
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A
I was never supposed to be in this industry. I was 100% either going to be a lawyer or in finance.
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B
Okay.
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A
If I was very independently wealthy, I would have been a treasure hunter doing scuba diving and marine biology. But no, I was supposed to be a lawyer or in finance, my dad's lawyer. And I'd done a ton of, you know, financial analyzation classes and stock trading in high school and some of those components. So that was really something I was interested in. And I transferred schools after two years and the only school my credits would transfer into was the newly created advertising school at smu. And so I just wanted to get out and graduate as soon as I humanly could. But my one of my first classes was graphic design and I fell in love with it. So I was actually a designer for my last two years of college. And then I took a campaigns class and fell in love with that piece and the presentation and the elements behind it and ideation. And so that was my educational background was really, I was going to be finance and law and then by circumstance and happenstance just ended up in the advertising school and was a designer in graphic design. And then when I graduated my first agency, I actually went on the account side because they said I get to present more often. But I was an account guy who understood graphic design and design components. So I was able to kind of fled between both worlds.
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B
That's great. That's great. See, it all worked out.
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A
It all worked out.
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B
And it's probably okay that you have some of the law, some of the law, finance background for marketing and creative at this point.
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A
It has definitely come in handy. Yeah, it's come in very handy. I'm one of those rare creatives that loves data. I don't. Data to me is not a four letter word. Like give me enough data and I'll predict the future. And if you give me enough information and insights, then I'll be able to create the perfect spot.
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B
That's great. So let's talk. How are you as a leader internally, you know, especially in that role, which is unique for the company. You know, how do you think about leading your teams? And I asked this question through a metaphor, which is, you're a soccer player on a field. Are you the striker trying to score the goals? Are you the midfield sort of trying to be that connective tissue between the defense and offense? Or are you playing the defensive line, protecting the goal at all costs from competitive onslaught?
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A
So I played baseball.
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B
Okay, so use that one.
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A
Yeah, I'll use that one. I was a pitcher in baseball, and I think. I think that kind of correlates here to where it's a. It's a little bit of controlling the pace of the game. And it's kind of a. At the end of the day, if somebody hits a home run off us, there's no one to blame but myself. And so I always kind of feel that way. Putting the ball in the right place, in the right time, with the right support team is really what it's about. But I can tell you what a biggest shift that happened that I think a lot of people are not prepared for is going from player to coach. And it is a drastic shift when you're used to doing the work and being in the middle of it all and digging in and being in the trenches. I love the chaos. I love ideating, I love brainstorming, I love presenting. Yeah, I don't get to do a lot of it anymore. Instead, my job is to make sure that everybody else is able to do that and that we're able to find the right ideas and unlock the right agency partners and remove hurdles. And so going from player to coach is a significant mental shift on where it has to be to where it's no longer, are you able to do it? It's, are you able to put a team that's able to do it? And so I think that's been a big adjustment for me over the last couple years. Is kind of getting that out of your head to where it's. It's not your idea anymore. You're not the one that's going to be going on the shoot. You're not the one that's going to be, you know, pitching and presenting this idea. Instead, it's, have you created an environment and a support system for the rest of the team and your brand and your agency partners that they're delivering great work because at the end of the day, you know, you get the work that you are expecting.
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B
Yep.
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A
And I think that's a big piece of this is. That's a. Which is why I also push everyone to say, hey, just bring me cool shit. If you got an idea, text me. Because at the end of the day, I'm wearing it regardless. So it's. Might as well make it something that we enjoy doing and have some fun with and that people are going to be proud of.
- [25:28]
B
Love that last quick question. Chris is who's next? Who's somebody that we should have on the Marketing Vanguard podcast? It can be somebody who you admire from afar and have never met, or it could be somebody that you know very well as a peer, somebody that you have had countless conversations with or you just know their work.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah, I mean, I probably have two people. One, I don't know if you've spoken with Marissa Solis. She's one of the lead brand officers for the NFL, and I absolutely love her. Her and I worked together at Frito Lay together before. We still keep in really close touch. She's got an amazing perspective on the world and the approach and what she's been able to do at the NFL the last couple of years has just been awesome to watch. Of course, I'm a huge fan of everything Liquid Death that they do and their CEO, Mike. I am envious of the things they're able to pull off and pull through. Just because I'm like, how'd you get that approved? He's like, oh, it's my call. I'm like, okay, well, that makes it a lot easier.
- [26:21]
B
I love that.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah, I was gonna say. And then Sophia over at Coors.
- [26:25]
B
Oh, it's just great.
- [26:26]
A
I love, love what Coors has been doing this stuff. Yeah. So, I mean, again, it's pretty awesome just having the ability to interact with some of these people and talk and get the chance to, you know, text back and forth or even just LinkedIn each other and be like, hey, how'd that come? How come about. You get the real unfiltered version? Which is a lot of fun because there's an element of like, oh, this must have been how it happened. And they're like, oh, no. Let me. Let me tell you how this actually came to life.
- [26:48]
B
I love those stories. I love those stories. Those are the gems. In fact, I did just have Sophia on the podcast. I did some recordings at Brand Week, and so that will be coming live soon.
- [26:59]
A
Awesome.
- [27:00]
B
So you'll have to look at it for that one. But the other two, Absolutely. I'll reach out to. I actually just did an interview with Gary Vaynerchuk at our Media Week not too long ago. And he also sits suggested Mike. So now I've got two folks who have said, absolutely, get Mike on the show. So Mike, if you're listening, I'm gonna reach out.
- [27:16]
A
So anyway, Gary's great too. Gary's the one. He's somebody I've been following for a really long time and looked up to for a really long time. So it's really cool to get the chance to work with them as well.
- [27:24]
B
Yeah, no, they're fabulous. All right, well, listen, Chris, thank you so much for this. It's been a pleasure. I'm sure we have many more conversations to be had, so I look forward to those. And in the meantime, take care and we'll talk soon.
- [27:35]
A
Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Marketing Vanguard, part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Acast Creator Network. This podcast was produced by Jordan Praetano, executive produced by Al Manarino and John Hile, and edited by Lane McGibony at Boutwell Studios. You can listen and subscribe to all of Adweek's podcasts by visiting Adweek.com podcasts stay updated on all things Adweek Podcast Network by following us on on Twitter DWEEK Podcast. And if you have a question or suggestion for the show, send us an email@podcastadweek.com thanks for listening.
- [28:15]
B
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