Marketing Vanguard Podcast:
Rewriting the Rules of Leadership: Doug Zarkin’s ‘Thinking Human’ Approach
Host: Jenny Rooney, Adweek
Guest: Doug Zarkin, CMO of Take 5 Oil Change
Date: October 30, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, host Jenny Rooney sits down with Doug Zarkin, the newly-appointed first CMO of Take 5 Oil Change and a veteran marketing leader known for transformative brand-building. Doug discusses his career trajectory, shares leadership philosophies from his book "Moving Your Brand Out of the Friend Zone," and reveals actionable insights for challenger brands, team-building, vulnerability in leadership, and why “Thinking Human” is vital for modern marketing. The conversation offers candid, practical wisdom for marketers at every level.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
Doug Zarkin’s Career Journey and Transition to Take 5 Oil Change
[01:22–02:58]
- Started at agencies (Saatchi, Grey), established a youth and entertainment division.
- Moved client-side with Avon, launched the “Mark” brand for young women, scaled to $120M.
- Led Victoria’s Secret PINK from test to national scale.
- CMO at EssilorLuxottica/Pearle Vision for 11 years—oversaw brand transformation.
- Recently joined Take 5 Oil Change as their first CMO, eager to revolutionize a commoditized category.
Quote:
"My career journey really was about moving from the back to the front of the train." —Doug Zarkin [01:22]
How to Achieve Leadership Longevity in CMO Roles
[02:58–04:51]
- Focus on assembling the right “cast” (team), not just stars but the right roles across functions.
- Marketing and operations collaboration is key: "Marketing without OPS is just words."
- Realized importance of emotional connections—brands must get out of the “friend zone.”
Quote:
"Consumers make emotional decisions before they make rational choices... [Pearle Vision] was trying to be everything to everyone and... stuck in the friend zone." —Doug Zarkin [03:34]
What Attracted Doug to Take 5 and Driven Brands
[05:14–07:15]
- Driven Brands: parent company of Mako, Meineke; Take 5 Oil Change has 1,200 US/Canada locations.
- Culture of humility—leadership wants to move from good to great.
- Embraces the challenge of being a “challenger brand” and innovating in a commodity category.
Quote:
"If you’re in fourth place in the category, you get a chance to think completely differently... How am I going to win this darn thing?" —Doug Zarkin [05:54]
The Challenger Brand Playbook: People First, Progress over Perfection
[07:53–09:08]
- First weeks as CMO: Talent assessment internally and externally, building trusted agency partnerships.
- Playbook: People → Process → Progress → Profitability.
- Emphasizes clarity on KPIs and ramping up new locations.
- Advocates celebrating progress, not letting perfection paralyze the team.
Quote:
"I did not come with a playbook, I came with a notebook. The plays that I'm running now are really about following my process that I've tried to build over time." —Doug Zarkin [08:26]
Prioritization and Focus in Marketing Decisions
[09:23–11:04]
- The “buffet analogy”: Marketers must practice the art of sacrifice, focusing efforts on what moves the needle.
- Personalizing spending decisions, breaking down large budgets into relatable targets.
- Make complex goals (like daily cars per shop) tangible and manageable.
Quote:
"Nobody feels good leaving a buffet...I'm trying to bring here is a little bit more rigor into what we do." —Doug Zarkin [09:49]
Navigating Industry Transformation: Data, Tech, and Human Thinking
[11:04–14:44]
- Marketing leaders now face data overload. The challenge: discern what’s meaningful.
- Technology and research must be aligned with the right questions and clear objectives.
- Importance of cross-market analysis (national and DMA/local).
- Loves learning from others’ failures—calls for more vulnerability and peer sharing.
Quote:
"Just because you can measure something doesn't mean it's meaningful." —Doug Zarkin [12:19]
Learning from Failure and Defining Brand Value
[15:02–18:06]
- Advocates for closed-door, failure-focused conferences for authentic sharing and growth.
- The “brand value equation”: Experience ÷ Price = Brand Value.
Quote:
"As long as the ratio is like 3 or 4 to 1, you can charge whatever the hell you want. So as long as you deliver an amazing experience." —Doug Zarkin [16:27]
- Personal story: Tried removing “Buy One Get One Free” at Pearle Vision, failed, learned from consumer sentiment misjudgment, iterated successfully later.
The Book: “Moving Your Brand Out of the Friend Zone”—‘Thinking Human’
[19:13–23:18]
- Wrote the book to demystify marketing, highlight vulnerability, and encourage leadership reflection.
- “Thinking human”: Treat every customer as if they’re your only customer.
- Culture at Driven: Humility, continuous improvement, gratitude, and remote-first philosophy.
Quote:
"Imagine in business if you treated every customer as if they were your only customer. That’s what thinking human is." —Doug Zarkin [21:13]
- Uses “Challenge Coins” to recognize and inspire gratitude among staff.
Vetting the Right Company as a CMO
[23:18–25:27]
- Chose Take 5 for decisive interview process, cultural fit, and leadership commitment to growth.
- Warns that too many interviews at other companies can indicate indecisiveness or bureaucracy.
Quote:
"The interview culture, the way that you interview and get interviewed for a job tells you so much." —Doug Zarkin [24:26]
Personal Leadership Impact and Inspiring His Team
[25:39–27:29]
- Hopes to leave a legacy of curiosity, learning, and improved performance.
- Chief Marketing Officer is also Chief Brand Evangelist: must energize team and organization.
Quote:
"I really want to inspire the two most important words in the English language, which is thank you." —Doug Zarkin [26:53]
Marketing Career Advice for the Next Generation
[27:54–29:58]
- Encourages embracing marketing’s “mixture of art and science”—flexibility and ambiguity are strengths.
- No right or wrong way, just “a way.”
- Marketing “fluffiness” is a platform, not a problem.
Quote:
"Stop stressing out about the right way to do something. Like just stop. If there is no way, that’s a process that your company has, create it. Embrace the ambiguity that marketing brings." —Doug Zarkin [28:31]
- Celebrates the thrill and impact of seeing your work in the real world.
The Multifaceted Role of the Modern CMO
[30:12–30:40]
- Must think like a GM, negotiate with finance, work with legal, support ops—patience and flexibility required.
Who Inspires Doug Zarkin?
[30:58–32:12]
- Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys): admires his IP-building and marketing genius.
- Plans to focus his brief meeting with Jerry on insights, not football.
Quote:
"I think one of the most innovative marketers on the planet...when [Pete Roselle] invented the Super Bowl, he recognized it wasn’t just a game, it was an experience. Jerry Jones is a modern day...among the best at understanding the power of his IP." —Doug Zarkin [31:26]
Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)
- "My career journey really was about moving from the back to the front of the train." —Doug Zarkin [01:22]
- "Consumers make emotional decisions before they make rational choices." —Doug Zarkin [03:34]
- "I did not come with a playbook, I came with a notebook." —Doug Zarkin [08:26]
- "Just because you can measure something doesn't mean it's meaningful." —Doug Zarkin [12:19]
- "As long as you deliver an amazing experience...Brands have to be focused first, second and third on consumer sentiment." —Doug Zarkin [16:27]
- "Imagine in business if you treated every customer as if they were your only customer. That’s what thinking human is." —Doug Zarkin [21:13]
- "Stop stressing out about the right way to do something...Embrace the ambiguity that marketing brings." —Doug Zarkin [28:31]
- "I really want to inspire the two most important words in the English language, which is thank you." —Doug Zarkin [26:53]
Memorable Moments
- The “Challenge Coin” Ritual: Doug distributed coins saying “You Make a Difference” to spread gratitude in the organization, instructing team members to pay it forward. [25:39–27:29]
- Book Origin: Wrote his book in 16 weeks as a way to “pay it forward” and make marketing leadership accessible and vulnerable. [19:13]
- Failure Example: Honestly shared how pulling “Buy One Get One” failed at Pearle Vision, and the necessity of deeper consumer insight. [15:02–18:06]
- Marketing as Fun: The delight in seeing your campaign on the shelf or air—reminding all marketers to enjoy the journey. [29:58]
Useful For
- CMOs and aspiring marketing leaders—actionable lessons on leadership, team-building, and decision-making.
- Anyone in a challenger-brand role or looking to spark brand transformation.
- Marketers seeking inspiration for embracing humility, vulnerability, and human-centric thinking in a data-driven world.
End of Summary