As goes productivity, so goes wages. Right?

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "As Goes Productivity, So Goes Wages. Right?" Release Date: December 27, 2024

Hosted by Kimberly Adams in place of Kai Ryssdal, this episode of "Marketplace" delves into the intricacies of the American economy as the year wraps up. From holiday shopping behaviors to the enduring trade deficit, and from local business growth to broader economic theories, the discussion provides a comprehensive overview of the current economic landscape.

---

1. Holiday Shopping Season Performance

Guests: Jordan Holman (Business Reporter, The New York Times) and Katherine Rampell (Opinion Columnist, The Washington Post)

The episode kicks off with an analysis of the holiday shopping season, revealing that American consumer spending rose by 3.8%, surpassing expectations. Katherine Rampell highlights the return to pre-pandemic "normalcy," noting, “the level of discounting that felt normal, that brought people out and made them want to spend” [02:34]. Despite ongoing complaints about higher prices, consumers remained active, largely driven by attractive discounts and a shift towards online spending.

Jordan Holman elaborates on consumer behavior: “Retailers were pulling back on spending, maybe consumers were just waiting for this time period. That’s why you saw a boom in certain categories like electronics and apparel and toys” [03:35]. The emphasis on deals and digital wallets played a crucial role in maintaining consumer spending despite inflationary pressures.

---

2. Consumer Sentiment and Inflation Expectations

Katherine Rampell discusses the evolving consumer sentiment post-election, particularly regarding inflation. She observes a significant increase in consumers believing it's "a good time to buy big ticket items" like TVs and automobiles, anticipating future price hikes [03:51]. This sentiment reflects lingering frustrations with inflation and doubts about policy measures effectively curbing price increases.

Rampell points out, “Consumers are starting to internalize the impact of tariffs and global supply chain issues, which is influencing their purchasing decisions” [05:26]. The anticipation of rising prices in key sectors is shaping future spending behaviors and economic expectations.

---

3. Understanding the U.S. Trade Deficit

Reporter: Henry Epp

Henry Epp breaks down the complexities of the U.S. trade deficit, which grew by over 4% in November to nearly $103 billion [09:48]. Sharon O'Halloran from Columbia University explains, “We are buying more things from abroad than we are selling” [09:55]. However, the deficit isn't solely a sign of economic weakness. The U.S. excels in exporting services such as software and education, which balances the goods deficit.

Rachel Brewster from Duke Law School adds, “Foreign countries and businesses want to invest in our stock market and in our government debt,” contributing to the trade deficit by strengthening the dollar, making imports cheaper and exports more expensive [10:18]. The deficit indicates robust consumer consumption but also highlights the challenges of balancing economic growth with sustainable borrowing.

---

4. Spotlight on Local Business: Urban Hikes Kansas City

Interviewee: Lisa Pena (Owner, Urban Hikes Kansas City)

Lisa Pena shares the success story of Urban Hikes Kansas City, which saw a $10,000 increase in revenue and a $5,000 rise in profit this year [12:11]. Despite seasonal challenges like colder weather, her business expanded its offerings and collaborations with local institutions, such as the Kansas City library and the World War I Museum. Pena’s goals for 2025 include doubling the number of corporate groups participating in urban hikes, aiming to enhance community engagement and business growth.

---

5. Stock Market and Economic Indicators

The episode provides a brief stock market update, noting declines in major indices: Dow Jones Industrial Average fell by 333 points (0.75%) to 42,990, Nasdaq dropped by 298 points to 19,722, and S&P 500 decreased by 66 points (1.10%) to 5970 [14:47]. Tech stocks, previously strong performers, experienced a sell-off with Meta down 6.10%, Alphabet slipping 1.5%, and Nvidia off 2%. Additionally, bond yields rose, with the 10-year Treasury note reaching 4.63% [14:54].

---

6. Economic Concepts: The Bauml Effect

Economist Highlight: William Bauml

The podcast introduces the Bauml Effect, an economic theory developed by William Bauml in the 1960s, which explains why wages rise in industries without corresponding productivity gains [19:41]. Using a creative bassoon analogy, María Hollenhorst illustrates how competition for labor can drive wages up even when productivity remains stagnant. This effect is evident in sectors like education, where increased wages are necessary to compete with more productive industries such as tech and finance [20:35].

Hollenhorst explains, “Productivity gains in one industry spill over and increase wages in other industries,” highlighting the interconnectedness of different economic sectors and the broader implications for wage structures across the economy [21:02].

---

7. Refugee Resettlement and Tech Training

Reporter: Marlon Hyde (WABE, Atlanta)

The episode shifts focus to social economics, discussing the challenges faced by refugees in the U.S. workforce and initiatives to bridge the skills gap. Marlon Hyde interviews Bleisha McGar and Brenton Strine from the Revco coding bootcamp in Atlanta, which trains refugees in software development and artificial intelligence [24:28]. Programs like Revco aim to equip refugees with high-demand tech skills, facilitating their transition into lucrative industries.

Bleisha McGar shares her experience: “Magar learned about the bootcamp from friends, and it felt like an opportunity she could not pass up since it’s free” [25:21]. The bootcamp's success is underscored by the growing number of participants and the industry's demand for skilled tech professionals, projected to add over 350,000 jobs annually in the next decade [26:06]. These initiatives are crucial in providing refugees with the necessary tools to climb the economic ladder and integrate successfully into the American workforce.

---

8. Conclusion and Looking Ahead

As the year concludes, Rampell and Holman reflect on the biggest economic stories. Rampell emphasizes the persistent challenge of inflation and its impact on future economic policies, while Holman highlights the evolving landscape of retail with clear winners and losers emerging post-pandemic [07:01]. Looking forward to 2025, key themes include inflation management, trade policies, and continued shifts in consumer behavior.

Kimberly Adams wraps up the episode by acknowledging the multifaceted nature of the U.S. economy, touching on issues like homelessness and the ongoing effects of migration and natural disasters. The episode underscores the importance of understanding both macroeconomic trends and local business dynamics to grasp the full picture of America's economic health.

---

This episode of "Marketplace" provides a thorough examination of current economic trends, consumer behavior, and the underlying factors shaping wages and productivity. Through expert insights and real-world examples, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the forces driving the U.S. economy as it moves into the new year.

Transcript

[Kimberly Adams]

This Marketplace podcast is supported by Odoo. Why waste time and money on disconnected management platforms when Odoo has everything any business will ever need in one simple, affordable, user friendly software? That's why it's time to switch to Odoo. Sign up [e-mail] Nobody does selling better.

[Jordan Holman]

Than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with Shop Pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.commarketplace all lowercase go to shopify.commarketpace to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.commarketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

The economy didn't take the week off for the holiday, so we've got some news on retail trade and technology, plus the weekly wrap from American Public Media. This is Marketplace foreign in Washington, D.C. i'm Kimberly Adams in for Kai Rysdal. It's Friday, December 27th. Good to have you along. The bulk of one of the busiest shopping periods of the year is pretty much over and we are ready to dive into the details of what we learned about the American consumer. Plus the other economic news of the week. And you know what, why not the year for that? I'm joined now by Jordan Holman, a business reporter at the New York Times Times, and Katherine Rampel, an opinion columnist at the Washington Post. Welcome, you two.

[Katherine Rampell]

Hi, Kimberly.

Hi, Kimberly.

[Kimberly Adams]

Hey there. So, Jordan, you're the retail reporter. Let's start with you. How did the almighty American consumer do this holiday season?

[Katherine Rampell]

We held up. So the numbers are in. When it comes to the holiday shopping season. It was up 3.8%, which was more than was expected. And this holiday season was really just defined by normalcy. That's basically the same growth that we saw before the pandemic in 2018 and 2019, but even more so, it was like the level of discounting that felt normal, that brought people out and made them want to spend.

[Kimberly Adams]

Say a little bit more about that, Jordan, because people have been complaining about these higher prices for ages, but yet they're still spending in the traditional way. How did retailers actually get them to open up their wallets? Digital wallets, I guess, right?

[Katherine Rampell]

Yes, because online spending was stronger than in stores. But I think if you like Take a look at the whole year. You were hearing retailers say people are being more discerning about what they're buying. They're only really spending when there's a deal to be offered. And that is just magnified during the holiday shopping season. So, so the sales seem to be concentrated as in people were waiting in November and December to really do that splurge that we kind of hear, we definitely heard about during the pandemic. And so as people, you know, you keep hearing retailers say they were pulling back on spending. Maybe consumers were just waiting for this time period. And that's why you saw, you know, a boom in certain categories like electronics and apparel and toys, which are classic holiday shopping categories.

[Kimberly Adams]

Now, Catherine, you wrote about something very relevant to how much we all decided to spend this holiday season, consumer sentiment. How did that set us up for the holiday spending season and how is it setting us up for what we're heading into?

[Katherine Rampell]

It's been super interesting to watch consumers views of prices going forward since the election. There's been a huge spike in the share of consumers who say now is a good time to buy big ticket items like TVs, refrigerators, automobiles, things like that, because they're anticipating that prices will go up. And that's what's super interesting here. You know, this whole election, of course, was about consumers frustration with inflation, what the next president can or cannot do about it. And Donald Trump ran his campaign effectively arguing, not effectively explicitly arguing, that he was going to bring prices down. But in the months since we've gotten those election results, it seems like consumers are having second thoughts about whether they believe that's going to happen. You see that in the overall inflation expectations numbers, they ticked up a little bit. You know, people are expecting like 2.8% inflation year over year, a little bit higher than they had been predicting before. But again, it's really in these big ticket items, presumably in part because they're worried about tariffs. Things like automobiles, even if they're built here, have a lot of inputs from abroad. They, you know, there's a very integrated supply chain across North America. For example, if we have tariffs on Mexican parts, then that will drive up the cost of automobiles. So I think consumers are finally starting to internalize that and acting accordingly.

[Kimberly Adams]

I'm curious what you think changed, though, because it's not like we are saying anything different as business and economics journalists about what tariffs mean now than we were before the election.

[Katherine Rampell]

I don't think I've been saying anything different, but I do think that there's been more news coverage in general paid to what happens if these global tariffs get put in place and or China specific tariffs as well, as well as the potential consequences of things like mass deportations. There are different ways that that might affect the economy, but the agriculture industry relies heavily on immigrant labor, including undocumented immigrant labor. And there's been stories recently looking at what happens to the cost of produce. For example, if you have tariffs on Mexican goods, you know, avocados and tomatoes and other things that we get from Mexico, and you have major workforce shortages in the United States because a lot of agricultural workers end up getting forced out. So I think there's just been more salience of the issue is my guess. But who knows? Trump also did acknowledge recently, hey, I may not be able to get prices down. So if people listen to that, maybe they're taking it to heart.

[Kimberly Adams]

Before we let you both go for the year, this is our final wrap of the year and I'm curious to hear from both of you what you think the biggest economic story was of the year and what you think is going to be the biggest economic story heading into 2025. Jordan, you go first.

[Katherine Rampell]

Well, my whole vantage point is through how consumers spend, why we spend on the thing. So I feel like it is the, the return of the winners and losers within retail. Whereas the past few years pretty much, you know, rising tide raises all boats, but now you're seeing bankruptcies kind of in different pockets. You're hearing about big lots in Party City, while there's this, the strength of Walmart and tjx. So that division of those companies and where people are spending is getting further apart. And I think that's just going to only continue into the new year.

[Kimberly Adams]

What about you, Katherine?

[Katherine Rampell]

I would say this year it's still the story of inflation. Inflation has come down a lot, but that last mile has been really tough for the Fed to achieve. You know, we're still above 2% inflation, which is, which is the Fed's target. And the Fed recently has been revising its forecasts going forward about how much longer it will take to get inflation down. So that sort of last bit of stubbornness, I would say for next year, inflation, you know, and where things are headed will still be an issue. But I'll be watching trade, as we've been talking about in taxes, there's going to be a huge food fight over the tax code next year because the large portion of the 2017 tax cuts expire. So that's going to be a major economic story.

[Kimberly Adams]

Well, thank you so much for all of your advice all year long. Kathryn Rampel, an opinion columnist at the Post, and Jordan Holman over at the New York Times, thank you.

[Katherine Rampell]

Thanks, Kimberly.

[Kimberly Adams]

Wall Street Today tech stocks drove a bit of a sell off. We'll have the details when we do the number. Speaking of trade, preliminary numbers out Today from the U.S. census Bureau show that the country's trade deficit in goods grew by over 4% in November, up to nearly $103 billion. Now, this isn't new. The US has consistently imported more goods than it exports since about the mid-1970s, and narrowing the gap between imports and exports has long been a goal of incoming President Donald Trump, though the deficit actually grew during his first term in office. Marketplace's Henry Epp takes a look at why we have a trade deficit in the first place and what that tells us about our economy.

[Henry Epp]

When we have a trade deficit in goods with other countries, that means just one thing, says Sharon O'Halloran at Columbia University.

[Kimberly Adams]

We are buying more things from abroad than we are selling.

[Henry Epp]

And while it's easy to think that means we're somehow losing to other countries, it's actually more complicated. For one, we export a lot of services, software, accounting, education, which changes our trade balance. Also, says Rachel Brewster at Duke Law School, what should be taken into account.

[Kimberly Adams]

Is how much investment you're getting into.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

The country versus how many goods and services you're selling abroad.

[Henry Epp]

And on that level we're doing well. Brewster says foreign countries and businesses want to invest in our stock market and in our government debt, and that is.

[Katherine Rampell]

Going to drive up the value of.

[Kimberly Adams]

The dollar and it's going to lead.

[Henry Epp]

To a trade deficit because the stronger the dollar, the more expensive it is for other countries to buy our exports, but the cheaper it is for us to buy theirs. And we've been consuming a lot, which helps drive the U.S. economy. Mary Lovely at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a marketplace underwriter, says our trade deficit refle reflects that we're consuming.

[Kimberly Adams]

More than we're earning, which means we are borrowing more.

[Henry Epp]

Borrowing is okay, she says, if it's going towards investments that eventually help us grow the economy and it pays off.

[Kimberly Adams]

In the future, we have a higher income, we can easily meet those payments.

[Henry Epp]

But if we're just spending on stuff that doesn't eventually help us produce more, she says, that's where things can get messy. I'm Henriett for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

Like Henry was just saying, goods are not the only part of the trade picture. Countries also export the things people do as well as the Things people make. And according to data from the UN Service, exports now represent a quarter of world trade. Domestically, that number is even higher, with services making up more than three quarters of the US Economy. So to understand that services slice a little more clearly, we decided to check back in with Lisa Pena, owner of Urban Hikes Kansas City.

[Lisa Pena]

Lately, business has been doing well despite it being cold in Kansas City. We have a seasonal urban hike on the Country Club Plaza that is in conjunction with the plaza Christmas lights that has been filling up a lot of the weekends that we offer it and we just offer it in December. However, since it is cold, we are offering less hikes and we will start to offer more hikes in March. When I think about the wins this year, I think about some small wins of a $10,000 increase in revenue and a $5,000 increase in profit. And we still aren't finished with December. But that is looking at the whole year. We've had 300 more participants in our urban hikes this year, and we are up to nine guides right now. And with myself, we're 10 guides total. We just added a new guide this December to give our plaza hike. We have grown a lot in our community collaborations. For example, we've collaborated with the Kansas City library, the local KCUR, the World War I Museum, and were even highlighted in the Kansas City, Kansas School District annual report. We also have added five new hikes this year, which is pretty exciting. Our most recent hike is Taste youe Way through kck, where we have different coffee samples, a taco sample, and also a bread and pastry sample from a local Mexican bakery. The goals that I have for 2025 are mostly around having more corporate groups. Corporate groups love to come out on urban hikes because it's a different way to celebrate with their staff or to take their clients out. And that's something that I really would like to grow in. We saw 42 different corporate groups this year, but we could easily see 82 different groups in 2025.

[Kimberly Adams]

Lisa Pena, owner of Urban Hikes Kansas City Coming up, basically, I'm gonna add.

[Katherine Rampell]

Like a burger, pizza, broccoli, and a cookie on the side.

[Kimberly Adams]

Interesting combination. But first, let's do the numbers. The Dow Jones industrial average lost 333points, 3/4 of a percent to land at 42,990. The Nasdaq fell 298 points to close at 19,722. And the S&P 500 shed 66 points, 1 and a 10% to finish at 5970 for the week, the Dow added a third of a percent, the Nasdaq picked up 3/4 of a percent, and the S&P 500 improved 7 10%. Tech stocks, which rode high this past year, took a bit of a hit today. Meta subtracted 6. 10%. Alphabet, parent company of Google, slid 1 1/2%. Chip maker Nvidia was off 2%. Bond prices fell. The yield on the 10 year T note rose to 4.63% and you're listening to Marketplace. Have you ever wondered what your boss is doing to give them their edge? This podcast is proudly supported by Fortune. Your Go to source for intelligent insights.

[Lisa Pena]

With a business focused lens since 1929.

[Kimberly Adams]

Fortune has helped leaders make decisions that drive impact.

[Lisa Pena]

Whether you're an established executive or just.

[Kimberly Adams]

Starting out, Fortune is your trusted companion in the ever changing world of business. Explore subscription options, email newsletters and [e-mail] your boss reads Fortune.

[Lisa Pena]

You should too. This Marketplace podcast is supported by Gusto. Paydays are great, but running payroll, calculating taxes, deductions, compliance. That's not easy. Unless of course, you have Gusto. Gusto is simple online payroll and benefits built for small businesses. Gusto automatically files your payroll taxes and directly deposits your team's pay. Plus you can offer all kinds of benefits 401ks, health insurance, workers comp and more. And because you're a Listener, you get three months free. Once you run your first payroll, go to Gusto.com marketplace that's Gusto.com marketplace doors take us to summers away or winter adventures and afternoon getaways. Your dedicated Fidelity Advisor can help you.

[Kimberly Adams]

Open those doors by working with you on a comprehensive plan to help you reach your wealth's full potential. Because doors were meant to be open.

[Lisa Pena]

Visit fidelity.com Wealth Investment Minimum Supply Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE SIPC this.

[Jordan Holman]

Marketplace podcast is supported by Hydro. This holiday season, there's only one fitness gift that should be on your list. It's not a treadmill, elliptical or a bike. Those don't work out your upper body or core. If you want to give the gift of an immersive full body workout all from the comfort of home, you need the Hydro Rower. With the largest library of rowing workouts, Hydro helps you stay motivated and crush your fitness goals. Always a full body workout and never boring, Hydro has you covered with free standard shipping, a 30 day risk, free trial and a one year warranty. Give the gift of a full body workout all from the comfort of home with Hydro. Head over to hydro.com and use code MARKETPLACE to save up to $800 off your Hydro Pro Rower. That's H Y-R-O-W.com code MARKETPLACE to save up to $800. Hydro.com code MARKETPLACE.

[Kimberly Adams]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kimberly Adams. We talk about a lot of economic concepts on this program. Inflation, for example, or supply and demand. Those are terms from textbooks that can help explain the forces that shape our lives. And we came across a term the other day that made Marketplace's Maria Hollenhorst say, huh, don't think we've talked about that one before.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

Some people discover their passions early in life.

[H]

When I was a kid, I just saw a picture of a bassoon and fell in love with it.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

That's Benga Agilori. Bassoons are woodwind instruments, by the way, typically used to play lower notes.

[H]

But I was too small to play the bassoon because it's a pretty big instrument. So I had to wait till Peabody kicked in before I could start playing the bassoon today.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

Agilori is an economist who works on rural policy in Washington, D.C. but we're going to use his musical hobby to explain an economic concept, the Bauml Effect. The Bauml Effect is named after economist William Bommel. In the 1960s, he started exploring why prices rise even in industries that haven't changed in literally hundreds of years. Cue the bassoon. That's Agilori playing Fanfare Rondeau by Jean Joseph Mouret. It was composed in 1729.

[H]

In 1729, when this piece first came out, bassoon player is going to be able to read the music and then play it within the orchestra or in a quartet or something like that.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

I couldn't find wage data for bassoon players in 1729, but let's just say they earned a few shillings a week.

[H]

So then fast forward 300 years, I'm going to be able to play that same music with the same instrument, with the same fingerings and produce the exact same song that would have sounded the same in 1729.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

Even though the time and skill it takes to play that piece today is the same as it was back then. You cannot pay a 21st century bassoonist a few shillings a week. He or she would simply get another job.

[H]

So if you see wages going up, you're going to assume that in that industry they'll be more productive. But then what happens is that some of people, he noticed that in certain industry where labor productivity hasn't increased, wages are going up. So the question is, well, why is that?

[Maria Hollenhorst]

The reason is Competition for labor.

[H]

In order to keep people in industries where the labor productivity is not going up, you have to match the wages in the ones where the labor productivity is going up.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

That is the Bommel effect in action. Productivity gains in one industry spill over and increase wages in other industries. And it has implications far beyond music. If you type Bommel effect into a search engine, one of the most common industries mentioned is education.

[Kimberly Adams]

So let's say that people see that tuition is rising at post secondary institutions. They will often immediately jump to the idea that this is the Bommel effect.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

Caroline Hoxby is a professor at Stanford University who studies the economics of education. And when you think about it, teaching is kind of like a live performance.

[Kimberly Adams]

You have professors like me where what we DO is advise PhD students one on one and discuss the latest research. And really we're probably not that much more productive than we've been in the past.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

Universities have to compete for workers with other industries like tech or finance that have gotten more productive over time. So wages go up. But Hauksbee said you can't blame all tuition cost increases on Baum.

[Kimberly Adams]

Some areas of education do not really have that much of the live performance aspect to them anymore and in fact are kind of going in the other direction. And this was accelerated a lot during.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

The pandemic, like online classes, which make it easier for professors to teach thousands of students. One big question in thinking about where the Baumel effect applies and where it.

[H]

Doesn'T is, well, what does greater productivity mean?

[Maria Hollenhorst]

That's economist bassoonist Benga Agilori again. And he said there are ways in which you could say that technology has even made musicians more productive. I mean, 300 years ago, a quartet needed four musicians playing live. But this is a recording of Agilori playing all four parts of Rondeau at different times. He recorded it months ago, and now you're hearing it while he's off doing something else. Economics, maybe, I don't know.

[H]

So in a way, I am more productive.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

It's just that productivity isn't always the point.

[H]

Sometimes you just want more arts and culture.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

You can bet that new technology is going to make a whole lot of industries a lot more productive in the next few years.

[Kimberly Adams]

Think of AI. You know, I was doing something even very simple in a statistical computer program the other day and I was like, how do you do that? I just used my friend ChatGPT and it came up with code and I bet, you know, I saved a couple hours.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

That's Melissa Thomason, an economics professor and associate dean at Miami University in Ohio.

[Kimberly Adams]

Think about how much more code I could write because I didn't have to struggle with trying to remember this very arcane thing that I hardly ever use. So the Baumholt effect would say that that's pushing wages in the tech sector.

[Maria Hollenhorst]

Higher, and that could have spillover effects for all sorts of industries, even the ones that don't use AI. I'm Maria Hollenhorst for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

Jobs in tech and coding and AI often come with relatively high wages in this economy, making them ideal if you're trying to climb the economic ladder in the US which is exactly what many refugees coming to this country are trying to do. Last year, over 60,000 refugees resettled in America. And among those that are working age, many end up starting with low wage, low skilled labor. But programs around the country aim to bring thousands of new Americans into growing industries such as software development and artificial intelligence. Marlon Hyde from WABE in Atlanta looks at one initiative.

[Marlon Hyde]

Bleisha McGar is one of 20 refugees working away in a classroom during a free coding bootcamp called Revco. It's a program led by software engineers that teaches refugees how to code and other tech skills. On Magara's screen is a website she made with two furry monsters, one blue and one orange, and they're ready for lunch.

[Katherine Rampell]

Basically, I'm gonna add like a burger, pizza, broccoli, and a cookie on the side.

[Marlon Hyde]

Magar is 26 years old and originally from Nepal. She's a hospice care worker. She's flexing the skills she learned in the bootcamp to practice creating a website page, something that reacts when you hover a mouse on it. She clicks the burger and drags her cursor over the monster.

[Katherine Rampell]

So if I click on, you know, broccoli, it might just open.

[Marlon Hyde]

Magar learned about the boot camp from friends, and it felt like an opportunity she could not pass up since it's free.

[Katherine Rampell]

And I would be learning, like, a skill that's very prevalent now. So two birds with one stone.

[Marlon Hyde]

Brenton Strine, a software engineer, started the Rev code program in 2017.

[Kimberly Adams]

Companies are almost desperate to hire talented software engineers. So there's this huge need there, and then on the other hand, there's this huge need of new Americans starting over from nothing.

[Marlon Hyde]

Strien says many refugees want tech jobs but have to settle for roles like rideshare drivers because it's hard to learn how to code.

[Kimberly Adams]

If you think about a ladder that you climb to get to your first job, a lot of the rungs on that ladder are already in place, but what's missing is that bottom rung for people who haven't gotten a start yet don't know anything about code.

[Marlon Hyde]

The 10 week bootcamp provides hands on experience with AI and coding and some students do find jobs after and the industry is hungry. According to research from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, tech jobs in the US Are expected to grow faster than the workforce in the next decade, increasing by over 350,000 jobs a year. Refcoat has recently grown and is now funded by DeKalb county, part of the Atlanta metro area. Strine says he can expand boot camps, pay instructors and offer internships to some graduates.

[Kimberly Adams]

We're starting to fill in the rungs on that ladder a little bit where we're paying our graduates now to do real work and put a real job on their resume.

[Marlon Hyde]

And for some participants, the program can give a jumpstart to a new career. That's what 54 year old Tesfa Gabello is hoping for. He came here over a decade ago from Ethiopia where he was an irrigation engineer.

[Kimberly Adams]

My background is irrigation engineer. I'm an irrigation engineer.

[Marlon Hyde]

He currently works at a supermarket and hopes the program will help him get a job in it.

[Kimberly Adams]

Really I'm interested to change my career now.

[Katherine Rampell]

I'm working on professional work.

[Kimberly Adams]

I try to to change my career to it.

[Marlon Hyde]

A couple weeks later, Gabayo and the rest of his cohort is ready to graduate. Stryon congratulates them.

[Kimberly Adams]

Let me tell you, I'm really excited because you made it to the end of the class.

[Marlon Hyde]

Graduates take photos at the front of the room. They get a slice of pizza, a diploma and a fresh line on their resume that could help them land their next job in Atlanta. Hi, I'm Marlon Hyde for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

This final note on the way out today, not every refugee can get the kind of skills training like we heard about in Atlanta. And finding work is particularly fraught for those seeking refugee status who enter the country illegally. The surge of migrants in several parts of the country is one of the reasons federal officials blame for a more than 18% increase in homelessness in the US this year. In addition to migration, an overall lack of affordable housing plus several significant natural disasters helped contribute to the surge. One somewhat bright spot in the numbers veteran homelessness is down by more than 55% since 2010. Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargo. Donna Tam is the executive editor, Neil Scarborough is the vice president and general manager and I'm Kimberly Adams. Have a great weekend, everyone. We will be back on Monday. This is apm.

[Lisa Pena]

Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means. Here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular. Your family wants new phones. How do we know? They told us. The good news is that compared to wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints. So take the hint and get them four free phones and four $90 a month US Cellular built for us.