Bird flu spreads its wings

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "Bird flu spreads its wings" | Released March 3, 2025

Hosted by Kai Ryssdal, this episode of Marketplace delves into pressing economic and public health issues, including the ongoing trade tensions under the Trump administration, the implications of government spending on GDP calculations, the shutdown of the Soybean Innovation Lab, the resurgence of bird flu, and the controversial integration of artificial intelligence in the art world. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Trade War Escalates with New Tariffs

Timestamp: 00:51 - 03:00

Kai Ryssdal opens the episode by addressing the intensification of the trade war initiated by President Trump. Despite attempts to negotiate, tariffs remain firm, significantly impacting the U.S. economy.

• Tariff Implementation: President Trump announces the imposition of 25% tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico and a 20% tariff on Chinese goods, pending further decisions.
  "The tariffs... are all set. They go into effect tomorrow. 25% on everything from Canada and everything from Mexico. 20% total now on everything from China until the president changes his mind." (01:29)

• Market Reaction: The stock market responds negatively in real-time to the tariff announcements, reflecting investor anxiety.
  "If you had been watching his remarks on cable news, you'd have seen the stock market fall in real time as he was speaking." (01:29)

• Economic Indicators: Confusion in economic policy is beginning to manifest in tangible economic indicators. The S&P Global Manufacturing Index rises, while the Institute for Supply Management (ISM) index declines, signaling uncertainty in the manufacturing sector.
  "Case in point, two indicators of the US Manufacturing sector that we're out today. S and P Globals was up. The one from the Institute for Supply Management was down." (01:29)

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2. Government Spending and GDP: An Expert Debate

Timestamp: 04:08 - 07:14

A significant portion of the episode focuses on a controversial suggestion by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick to exclude government spending from Gross Domestic Product (GDP) calculations, a notion met with widespread criticism from economists.

• Lutnick's Proposal: Lutnick proposes removing government spending from GDP to potentially mitigate economic downturns.
  "Why not just cut government spending, he said, from how we calculate gross domestic product. Why not indeed." (04:54)

• Economists' Response: Renowned economists argue vehemently against this idea, emphasizing the integral role of government expenditure in GDP.
  "It's completely goofy to take it out." – Guido Lorenzoni, University of Chicago (05:10)
  "Government spending is a key component of GDP for countries across the globe." – Guido Lorenzoni (05:13)
  "These are like international agreed accounting standards set by the International Monetary Fund." – Guido Lorenzoni (05:13)

• Implications of Exclusion: Removing government spending would distort economic measurements, hinder accurate comparisons, and undermine trust in economic data.
  "It's everything from buying pencils to paying federal salaries to building tanks... it's about the economy. You want to think about what federal spending is doing to demand and whether the economy can meet that demand and how prices react." – Wendy Edelberg, Hamilton Project (05:44)

• Global Standards and Trust: The proposed exclusion would violate longstanding international accounting standards and erode trust, drawing parallels to practices in countries like China and Argentina, where economic data manipulation is more common.
  "Withholding pieces of tried and true data... tactics from governments like China or Argentina." – Gianluca Clementi, NYU (06:49)

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3. Shutdown of the Soybean Innovation Lab: Impact on Agriculture

Timestamp: 07:14 - 13:02

The episode covers the shutdown of the Soybean Innovation Lab (SIHL) following USAID's budget cuts, featuring an in-depth interview with Peter Goldsmith, the lab's director.

• Role of SIHL: Established in 2013, SIHL aimed to expand the soybean market in Sub-Saharan Africa, leveraging the U.S. comparative advantage in soybean production to boost both African economies and U.S. agribusinesses.
  "The Soybean Innovation Lab was established in 2013 with the mission to establish the foundations for the soybean market in sub Saharan Africa." (08:03)
  "Soybeans matter... they have high industrial multipliers... good for trade." – Peter Goldsmith (08:20)

• Consequences of Shutdown: The abrupt closure in April 2025 results in the halting of impactful projects, loss of market opportunities, and potential ceding of agricultural advancements to competitors like China and Europe, who may have different standards such as non-GM products.
  "Our work is dead stop and we'll mothball all of our technologies from the larger picture." – Peter Goldsmith (09:28)
  "Nature abhors a vacuum... Chinese, the Europeans." (10:35)

• Personal Impact: For Peter Goldsmith, this shutdown represents the collapse of a dedicated effort to alleviate poverty and malnutrition in Africa, undermining years of impactful work.
  "It was my life's work at the time." (11:22)
  "We just got caught up in an unfortunate storm that... we're dead in the water." (11:50)

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4. Bird Flu Resurgence: Economic and Public Health Threat

Timestamp: 18:19 - 22:57

The resurgence of bird flu is discussed as a multifaceted threat affecting public health, the economy, and specific industries like poultry and dairy.

• Current Situation: The USDA reports a decline in egg production by 4% year-over-year, with significant economic repercussions reflected in increased egg prices. Concurrently, the bird flu virus is widespread across various animal populations and humans.
  "In January of this year, 8.86 billion eggs were laid... 4% fewer than last year." (18:19)
  "The US Government's response to the outbreak so far... has been mixed, disappointing, reactive, inadequate." (19:59)

• Expert Insights:

  • Ali Khan, Dean at the University of Nebraska's College of Public Health, expresses heightened concern due to the virus's prevalence across multiple species and regions.
    "My concern increases when there's more virus in the community, in people, in animals." (19:12)
  • Jennifer Nuzzo, Director of the Pandemic Center at Brown University, acknowledges federal funding efforts but emphasizes the need for enhanced surveillance and incentives for farmers and workers to report infections without fear of repercussions.
    "More needs to be done to encourage dairy workers to come forward if they're sick." (21:04)

• Economic and Social Implications: The bird flu outbreak not only threatens public health but also jeopardizes the poultry and dairy industries, essential economic sectors. The lack of comprehensive strategies, particularly concerning undocumented workers and dairy facilities, hampers effective response and containment.
  "These are workers who are some of the poorer workers in the United States... they simply can't afford to be directed to go home by the public health agencies and go unpaid." – Elizabeth Strader, United Farm Workers Union (21:20)

• Government Response Critique: The administration's focus appears limited to poultry, ignoring broader agricultural sectors, thereby risking a more extensive pandemic and economic fallout.
  "They recognize the complexity and the long term nature of this problem, that the bird flu is not going away." – Jennifer Nuzzo (22:38)

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5. Artificial Intelligence in the Art World: Innovation and Controversy

Timestamp: 23:14 - 27:33

Exploring the intersection of AI and the creative industry, the episode highlights Christie's inaugural sale of AI-generated art, sparking both enthusiasm and backlash within the artist community.

• Christie's AI Art Auction: Christie's hosts its first AI-assisted art sale, attracting substantial bids and sparking debate among artists regarding the legitimacy and future of AI in creative processes.
  "This sale is but also controversy. Thousands of artists have signed an open letter calling for it to be shut down." (23:14)

• Artists' Perspectives:

  • Paula Scher, a seasoned designer, shares her experience integrating AI tools like MidJourney and Adobe’s Generative Fill into her workflow, underscoring time-saving benefits while acknowledging ethical considerations.
    "With AI, I would feel limited in some aspect if I didn't give myself the opportunity to learn it and to acknowledge it and to add it to my bank of different skills that I have." (24:46)
    "There's no use in hiding from AI." (27:10)
  • Elise Swopes, a digital surrealist artist, balances the creative possibilities of AI with concerns over ethical use and copyright infringement.
    "Avoid potential copyright infringement." – Eric Vasquez, Branding Designer (25:44)

• AI as a Tool vs. Threat: While some artists view AI as an invaluable tool for brainstorming and efficiency, others fear it might devalue traditional artistic skills and lead to job displacement. Initiatives like Fiverr’s personalized AI models aim to offer artists more control and new business models, allowing them to maintain creative authority.
  "Artists retain control of the models. They set their own prices and conditions for what's generated." – Lisa Vleming (26:39)

• Future Outlook: Despite the controversies, industry veterans like Paula Scher advocate for embracing AI, recognizing its inevitability and potential to revolutionize creative workflows.
  "You got to find out what it's going to do." (27:10)

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6. Economic Forecast: GDP Decline Predicted

Timestamp: 27:33 - End

Concluding the episode, Ryssdal references the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta's GDP forecast, which predicts a 2.8% contraction for the first quarter of 2025. This decline underscores the cumulative impact of the trade war, bureaucratic missteps in economic measurements, and public health crises like bird flu.

• "The Atlanta Fed's model shows the economy shrinking that is getting smaller by 2.8% on an annualized basis." (27:33)

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Conclusion

This episode of Marketplace provides a comprehensive overview of significant economic and public health challenges facing the United States, from international trade tensions and flawed economic metrics to agricultural setbacks and emerging health threats. Additionally, it explores the burgeoning yet contentious role of AI in creative industries, reflecting broader societal shifts. Through expert interviews and in-depth analyses, Ryssdal paints a nuanced picture of the intricate interplay between policy decisions, economic indicators, and technological advancements shaping the current landscape.

Transcript

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[Kai Rysdal]

A trade war yet? From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Monday today. This one is the 3rd of March. Good as always to have you along everybody. We are going to get right to it. Tariffs President Trump today at the White House taking questions.

[Paula Scher]

Is there any room left for Canada.

[Elizabeth Troval]

And Mexico to make a deal before midnight?

[Kristen Schwab]

And should we expect those Chinese tariffs, the extra 10% to take?

[Kai Rysdal]

No room left for Mexico or for Canada? No, the tariffs, you know, they're all set. They go into effect tomorrow. 25% on everything from Canada and everything from Mexico. 20% total now on everything from China until the president changes his his mind. TBD on that one. But if you had been watching his remarks on cable news, you'd have seen the stock market fall in real time as he was speaking. So first of all, there was that. Second of all, the economic policy confusion that has marked the first six or so weeks of the Trump administration is starting to play out in the actual economy. Case in point, two indicators of the US Manufacturing sector that we're out today. S and P Globals was up. The one from the Institute for Supply Management was was down. Marketplace's Elizabeth Troval gets us going.

[Kristen Schwab]

There's a word that Erin McLaughlin with the Conference Board knows we're sick of hearing. But when it comes to the manufacturing.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Sector, uncertainty is slowing things down a little bit.

[Kristen Schwab]

The Institute for Supply Management found new orders decreased in several industries in February. McLaughlin says price uncertainty has made it harder for manufacturers to plan for and source materials.

[Elizabeth Troval]

A lot of end users may not want to stock up on inventories and backlog because they don't know if the prices are going to go down or up or if they have to source.

[Kristen Schwab]

From other places and prices are up for manufacturers, even though Trump's tariffs haven't taken effect, Teresa Fort is with Dartmouth.

[Elizabeth Troval]

The uncertainty is equivalent to a tariff. He doesn't even have to put a tariff on to be raising firms costs.

[Kristen Schwab]

She says the expectation of a tariff can raise costs because firms become unwilling to, say, take a chance on a new production line.

[Elizabeth Troval]

If firms basically think that there's a good chance that that tariff is going to come along, they're not going to import the good, they're not going to invest in importing that good. And so then our supply is still limited. And so when supply is limited, then prices are higher.

[Kristen Schwab]

Regional Federal Reserve banks also collect manufacturing data. Dallas Fed economist Emily Kerr says those have been a mixed bag. In terms of Texas, I think a.

[Paula Scher]

Lot of that optimism is there.

[Elizabeth Troval]

I think the spike that we're seeing in February in particular is an uncertainty.

[Kristen Schwab]

Since the election, firms have been optimistic about a business friendly climate. Now it's less clear. I'm Elizabeth Troval for Marketplace Wall street.

[Kai Rysdal]

To start the week. As I alluded to, not so great. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. You might have seen over the weekend that Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was asked whether the cuts that Elon Musk's operatives are making to the federal government could lead to an economic downturn. Ludnick had a simple sounding but sideways answer. Why not just cut government spending, he said, from how we calculate gross domestic product. Why not indeed. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab takes it for me.

[Elizabeth Troval]

I feel like every economist I called this morning had some version of the same answer when I asked what if we just deleted government spending from US gdp? It would be more likely like a publicity stunt. It's completely goofy to take it out.

[Kai Rysdal]

I laugh because it would be something insane to do.

[Elizabeth Troval]

That's Guido Lorenzoni at the University of Chicago, Wendy Edelberg at the Hamilton Project, and Gianluca Clementi at nyu. Government spending is a key component of GDP for countries across the globe, says Lorenzoni. These are like international agreed accounting standards set by the International Monetary Fund. Something that, you know, goes back 80 years or more, 80 plus years of standards that help us measure international economies against each other and help us measure our economy against itself over time. And government spending is a part of that because it is a part of the economy, about six and a half percent of GDP in the U.S. here's Wendy Edelberg So it's everything from buying pencils to paying federal salaries to building tanks. She says untangling those federal transactions from GDP doesn't make sense because they are inherently tangled up with private businesses and consumers. And though measuring the dollar value of a product like a tank is easier than measuring the value of, say, a federal worker analyzing the need for a tank, those kinds of services are relevant, for sure. You want to think about what federal spending is doing to demand and whether the economy can meet that demand and how prices react. And besides the element here of accurately measuring the economy, there's the element of trust. Withholding pieces of tried and true data, says Gianluca Clementi, is a tactic from governments like China or Argentina, countries from.

[Kai Rysdal]

The developing world where routinely they do.

[Elizabeth Troval]

These type of things, where they fudge the numbers to make the economy appear better than it is. I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Since virtually the first day of the second Trump administration, Elon Musk and his operatives have been dismantling federal agencies and claiming as savings the billions of dollars those agencies spend on aid and assistance and contracts and research. The whole smash. One of the, if not the agency's hardest hit has been the US Agency for International Development. And among the programs funded by USAID and soon to be shut down are 19 university labs across the country focused on soybean research. Peter Goldsmith is the director and principal investigator of the Soybean Innovation Lab at the University of illinois, Urbana Champaign. Mr. Goldsmith, welcome to the program. Good to have you on.

[Peter Goldsmith]

Thank you very much. Glad to be here.

[Kai Rysdal]

Let us know what the Soybean Innovation Lab does.

[Peter Goldsmith]

Yeah. The Soybean Innovation Lab was established in 2013 with the mission to establish the foundations for the soybean market in sub Saharan Africa.

[Kai Rysdal]

Big picture here, sir. Why do soybeans matter?

[Peter Goldsmith]

Soybeans matter for a number of reasons, principally because they've shown to be a superior economic engine for an economy. Meaning when a country adopts soybean as the base source of protein and oil, a lot of good things happen. For economists, we call has high industrial multipliers. So a lot of people benefit. But it's also good for the US Agricultural economy and the agribusinesses, the farmers, because we have what's called a comparative advantage. We're really good at producing soybean. And when other regions of the world adopt soybean, they become markets for our soybean. So it's very good for trade.

[Kai Rysdal]

So with a nod to David Ricardo here, then what happens on, as I understand it 15th April when your soybean innovation lab shuts down because USAID funding, once you get most of your funding, is being closed.

[Peter Goldsmith]

Yeah. So our work is dead stop and we'll mothball all of our technologies from the larger picture. SIHL was truly impactful at executing its mission. Sil.

[Kai Rysdal]

Sil. The Soybean Innovation Lab.

[Peter Goldsmith]

Sorry, the Soybean Innovation Lab. So currently the dominant food oil in sub Saharan Africa is palm oil. And so was affecting significant change having the processors, the industry switch over, which would have been very good for us growers, creating a new market in a region that is the largest and fastest growing region in the world that, that doesn't know soy. So this was, it's a huge opportunity loss for us growers on the theory.

[Kai Rysdal]

That nature abhors a vacuum now that America is departing the field in so many fields, but specifically now, soybeans leaves an opportunity for others. Right? The Chinese, the Europeans.

[Peter Goldsmith]

Absolutely, absolutely. And those of us, I mean, we're on the ground in 31 countries and both the Chinese are quite active other countries as well. And there isn't a plan B. Europeans, for example, they have a preference for non GM products. The US industrial standard is based on GM technologies. And as you said, nature abhors a vacuum. All countries outside of South Africa currently are non gm. That means US beans are not welcome. And that to me would be a problem. And that's what is the kind of the opportunity lost.

[Kai Rysdal]

Fair to call this your life's work, Ms. Goldsmith?

[Peter Goldsmith]

Yes. Those who know me, I have had several careers, but since 2012, when I wrote the original proposal, I've really focused on soy to address poverty and malnutrition in sub Saharan Africa. So it is. It was my life's work at the time.

[Kai Rysdal]

So how are you feeling now?

[Peter Goldsmith]

It's rough. I mean, I think not only did we know we were having impact, but we were doing a good thing. There were really no losers. Private sector was taking over in a number of places and US growers were potential winners in the future. US industry was already. We are closely partnered with them. They were already intrigued. It was just win, win, win all the way around. And we just got caught up in an unfortunate storm that. Yeah, we're dead in the water.

[Kai Rysdal]

Well, good luck to you, sir. Peter Goldsmith, he's the director of the Soybean Innovation Lab at the University of Illinois. Mr. Goldsmith, thanks for your time, sir.

[Peter Goldsmith]

I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for your interest. Take care. Bye bye.

[Kai Rysdal]

Coming up, you can't be scared of the technology. You got to find out what it's going to do. I mean you can be scared of AI, but you do have to find out what it's going to do first, though. Let us do the numbers. Yeah, the Wawas again. Dow Industrials down 649 today 1 1/2% 43,191. That's actually a bounce off the low of the session. The Nasdaq shed 497 points, about 2.6% 18,350 the S&P 500 down 104 1¾ percent 58 and 49 There some cryptocurrencies jumped today after President Trump announced certain assets he wants to include in a strategic crypto Reserve Bitcoin up 2.4%. Still TBD though, how Congress plans to fund said reserve bonds rose Yield on the 10 year Tino down 4.16% you're listening to Marketplace.

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[Elizabeth Troval]

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[Elizabeth Troval]

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[Kai Rysdal]

F o l dot com this is Marketplace, I'm Kai Rysdal. As distressing as this is to point out, chances are you have experienced a financial fraud or scam at some point. According to a Bankrate survey that came out today, about two thirds of Americans have about a third of us in just the past year. And as Marketplace's own most recent fraud victim, Kaylee Wells reports, could happen to anyone.

[Kristen Schwab]

Let me start by saying I'm really careful. And yet on Tuesday, someone managed to steal from my checking account. So I felt a little better when Sarah Foster, the equally careful bank rate analyst, said she was a fraud victim. Recently, too, someone somehow had access to.

[Elizabeth Troval]

My personal information and was opening cell.

[Kristen Schwab]

Phone accounts in my name. My credit score had dipped by about 100 points. Perhaps you heard my gasp there. Nearly three quarters of respondents who said they're already doing things to protect themselves against fraud experienced it anyway.

[Elizabeth Troval]

And I think that it is becoming.

[Kristen Schwab]

A lot harder to protect our financial information. And scammers are getting a lot more advanced. Baby boomers are scammed or defrauded more than any other generation, according to the survey. But con artists and thieves have found effective ways of targeting Gen Z, too.

[Elizabeth Troval]

There are a lot of fraudsters that reach out to my dog, Instagram, and are like, hey, we want to give you this product for free, but we just need you to pay shipping.

[Kristen Schwab]

Staff researcher and dog owner Selena Larson works at the cybersecurity company Proofpoint.

[Elizabeth Troval]

You see this and you just think it's kind of normalized because, oh, well, you know, influencers get this all the time.

[Kristen Schwab]

Larson says the proactive steps we all already know. Avoiding suspicious links or requests, two factor authentication. Those are important, but they aren't enough to stay safe. Scott Talbot at the trade group Electronic Transactions association checks his accounts every day and still had someone try to file a fake tax return in his name.

[Public Investing]

Unfortunately, you also have to be reactive and that when you see fraud, to take steps quickly to shut it down.

[Kristen Schwab]

As you did in my case, being proactive didn't stop the fraud. Being reactive did. I froze the account right after the first transaction came through, so I lost a total of $5. I'm Kaylee Wells for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

There is, I kid you not, a monthly report put out by the U.S. department of Agriculture titled Chickens and Eggs. And from it, the February issue, we learned that in January of this year, 8.86 billion eggs were laid in this economy. A lot, yes, but 4% fewer than last year. And part of the reason a dozen great. A large now cost you as a nationwide average, $4.95. It's also wise. You might have seen the Agriculture Department's going to spend another billion dollars. On top of the two, it spent the past couple of years trying to contain the bird flu outbreak. Marketplace's Samantha Fields has more on that.

[Ali Khan]

Ali Khan has been worried about bird flu ever since it first appeared in the mid-1990s when he was a disease detective at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

[Kai Rysdal]

It had all the hallmarks of potentially becoming the next pandemic.

[Ali Khan]

It spread quickly, mostly through wild birds and poultry, and a limited number of people also got sick and died.

[Kai Rysdal]

Despite that, it's been, you know, almost 30 odd years. It has not yet become the next pandemic.

[Ali Khan]

But Khan, who's currently dean of the University of Nebraska's College of Public Health, is worrying more about that prospect again now.

[Kai Rysdal]

My concern increases when there's more virus in the community, in people, in animals.

[Ali Khan]

And these days there is a lot of virus all over the world again, this time in birds, pigs, cows, cats, all sorts of wild animals, and in people. The US Government's response to the outbreak so far, depending on who you ask, in public health, has been mixed, disappointing, reactive, inadequate.

[Elizabeth Troval]

It just feels very sluggish, very underpowered.

[Kristen Schwab]

Very slow, and I think in some cases, in denial.

[Ali Khan]

Jennifer Nuzzo is director of the Pandemic center at Brown University's School of Public Health. She says that two plus billion dollars the federal government has put into bird flu monitoring and preparedness so far has gone to important efforts.

[Kristen Schwab]

There's been money allocated to vaccine companies. There's also been money allocated for the provision of testing on farms and money to reimburse farmers whose animals experience lost milk production as a result of being.

[Ali Khan]

And there's been money for developing better tests and antivirals and helping hospitals and communities prepare for the possibility of a bird flu pandemic. But Nezzo says more needs to be done, especially to ramp up surveillance on farms.

[Kristen Schwab]

Making money available to farmers is really important, not just to protect us against the economic damages that this virus can pose, but also to incentivize farmers to test their animals so that, you know, if their animals test positive, that they can be reimbursed for that.

[Ali Khan]

More also needs to be done to encourage dairy workers to come forward if they're sick. Right now, Elizabeth Strader with the United Farm Workers Union says that's not happening.

[Elizabeth Troval]

There are so many workers that are sick and are not being tested or treated because they fear retaliation from their.

[Ali Khan]

Employer or because they're afraid of being forced to take unpaid time off from work if they test positive.

[Elizabeth Troval]

These are workers who are some of the poorer workers in the United States. These are people that are excluded from a lot of the social safety net. And so they simply can't afford to be directed to go home by the public health agencies and go unpaid on top of that.

[Ali Khan]

J. Steven Morrison at the center for Strategic and International Studies says many dairy workers are undocumented.

[Kai Rysdal]

And imagine how willing and prepared are those workers to come forward and get themselves tested and enter a system of observation and tracking and surveillance if they feel like that itself may enhance their risk of sudden deportation.

[Ali Khan]

Incentivizing testing of dairy cows, their milk and dairy workers is going to be critical to preventing a pandemic. That's one of the main places more money needs to go. Morrison says. So far the Trump administration strategy seems focused on addressing outbreaks in chickens.

[Kai Rysdal]

They're worried about the strain on the industry, on the poultry industry, and they're worried about the price of eggs. It doesn't speak to the evolution of the virus and the presence in the dairy industry. However, it tells us that they recognize the complexity and the long term nature.

[Ali Khan]

Of this problem, that bird flu is not going away. Jennifer Nuzzo at Brown's Pandemic center says there is no scenario in which the administration won't have to put more money and time into dealing with the virus.

[Kristen Schwab]

And the reason why I say that is that this is an important economic threat. This is an important occupational threat and.

[Ali Khan]

An important public health threat. I'm Samantha Fields for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Christie's. The auction house has been running its first sale of art generated with the help of artificial intelligence. You got about two more days if you want to get in on the action. It is attracting big dollar bids. This sale is but also controversy. Thousands of artists have signed an open letter calling for it to be shut down. But the creative professions seem to be split on AI. Some artists are fighting back. Other art and design professionals are embracing it. As Marketplace's Megan McCarty Carino reports.

[Paula Scher]

Last year designer Paula Scher was leading a project with some unique constraints. The federal government hired her firm Pentagram to help create the website performance.gov. it translates long wonk government reports into bite sized user friendly summaries for the public.

[Kai Rysdal]

The goal was to make it really completely self operating that the report would automatically turn out in the appropriate typeface and the appropriate layout and format that we designed.

[Paula Scher]

It would even generate a unique graphic logo for every topic from veterans health to roadway safety and space technology to make a library of 1500 pictograms on a limited government budget. Pentagram started with a small sample of their original Illustrations made with paint and cut paper. Then using an AI tool called MidJourney, they applied the design language to make the rest of the logos. They used text prompts to tweak the style and color palettes.

[Kai Rysdal]

It's a series of accidents and corrections.

[Paula Scher]

Just like all artists, but much faster than doing it by hand or with traditional illustration software.

[Ali Khan]

Saving time, oh my gosh. I mean if I had the ability to do what I do now, I would have saved myself maybe years off my life.

[Paula Scher]

Elise Swopes is a surrealist digital artist who also works as an Adobe evangelist, sharing how she incorporates Adobe's suite of AI tools in her workflow features like Generative Fill, which allows users to remove parts of an image and fill in the background.

[Ali Khan]

With AI, I would feel limited in some aspect if I didn't give myself the opportunity to learn it and to acknowledge it and to add it to my bank of different skills that I have.

[Paula Scher]

Adobe's AI is unique in that it's trained only on licensed images. Most other image generators don't disclose what's in their training data, which raises ethical and legal questions, says branding designer Eric Vasquez.

[Public Investing]

A lot of the companies that I work with, they're very skeptical about AI and they don't want AI to be in the final output of anything that they are going to have as like a client facing image or campaign to.

[Paula Scher]

Avoid potential copyright infringement. He only uses AI for brainstorming and early mockups. But AI could offer new business models for artists like Lisa Vleming, who works with smaller clients. She designs posters, logos and event invitations in a retro groovy style.

[Elizabeth Troval]

My work is extremely time consuming and my pricing reflects that. I get a lot of people that want to work with me but they can't afford my services.

[Paula Scher]

She's trying out a new AI feature launched by the freelance marketplace Fiverr, which allows creators to train personalized AI models on their own body of work. Prospective clients then use those to generate images and they can take that and.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Come to me and say here's what I created. Can you keep that, change this or just use it as an inspiration?

[Paula Scher]

Artists retain control of the models. They set their own prices and conditions for what's generated. Fleming says she hopes it will allow her to take on more clients at lower price points. This could feed into concerns the technology will devalue artists skills. But after five decades in design, Paula Scher at Pentagram says there's no use in hiding from AI.

[Kai Rysdal]

I've gotten through the notion that you can't be scared of the technology, you got to find out what it's going to do.

[Paula Scher]

She's already seen the job change a lot since the days of literally cutting and pasting images by hand. I'm Meagan McCarty Carino for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

This final note on the way out today. Quick follow up to Kristen's story about gross domestic product. The Federal Reserve bank of Atlanta has a widely and well regarded model that tracks expected gross domestic product. And for the first quarter of 2025, that is the quarter that we are in ends at the end of the month. The Atlanta Fed's model shows the economy shrinking that is getting smaller by 2.8% on an annualized basis. Our daily production team includes Andy Corbyn, Nicholas Guillon, Maria Holland, Horst Iru Ecnobi, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry and Sophia Terenzio. I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow, everybody. This is apm. Thanks to tax reform, American businesses have opened doors throughout our communities, investing in US Manufacturing workers and innovation, spurring half a million in new jobs with higher wages and better training and setting a new record high in corporate taxes paid. Tell Congress to extend and strengthen the Tax Cuts and Jobs act paid for by Business Roundtable.