Cents and sensitivity

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "Cents and Sensitivity"
Host: Kai Ryssdal
Release Date: January 29, 2025

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1. Introduction to Economic Themes

In the episode titled "Cents and Sensitivity," Kai Ryssdal delves into the pivotal economic factors shaping the current landscape, primarily focusing on interest rates and the aging workforce. These themes are explored through a blend of policy analysis, expert interviews, and on-the-ground reporting from Cumberland County, Tennessee.

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2. Federal Reserve's Stance on Interest Rates

The episode begins with insights from the Federal Reserve's Chair, Jay Powell, during his press conference in Washington, D.C. Ryssdal breaks down Powell's remarks, highlighting the Fed's commitment to balancing maximum employment and stable prices.

• Jay Powell ([00:56] - 01:04):
  "We want policy to be restrictive enough to continue to foster further progress toward a 2% inflation goal."

Powell emphasized that while the current policy stance remains unchanged, the Fed is closely monitoring data before making future interest rate decisions, especially in the context of broader economic uncertainties like tariffs, immigration, fiscal, and regulatory policies.

• Jay Powell ([01:04] - 02:05):
  "Economic forecasting is really difficult beyond just a month or two out. So in the current situation, there's probably some elevated uncertainty... but that should be passing."

Ryssdal interprets Powell's message as a signal of stability in monetary policy, reassuring listeners that the Fed is not anticipating immediate rate cuts despite external pressures, including requests from political figures like President Trump.

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3. The Impact of Fed Policies on Housing and Mortgage Rates

Marketplace's Matt Levin provides an in-depth analysis of how Fed rate cuts have paradoxically led to an increase in mortgage rates, defying historical trends.

• Matt Levin ([03:38] - 05:34):
  "Housing wasn't all that sensitive to the Fed, partly because mortgage rates are tied to what the federal government pays to borrow money and those rates are going up... Consumers have also proven pretty interest rate resistant."

Levin explains that the disconnection between short-term rate cuts and long-term mortgage rates can be attributed to global bond investors' concerns over deficits and debt, as well as businesses turning to private credit sources instead of traditional banks. This shift has made the housing sector less responsive to Fed rate changes than anticipated.

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4. Tariffs and Their Local Impact

Addressing the topic of tariffs, Ryssdal speaks with Gretchen Blau, a customs brokerage manager at Logistics Plus in Erie, Pennsylvania, to understand the real-world implications of uncertain trade policies.

• Gretchen Blau ([06:09] - 08:17):
  "Just a lot of wait and see, a little bit of confusion mixed in... One thing we run into already is the quotas for steel and aluminum."

Blau details the challenges businesses face with fluctuating tariff policies, such as managing quotas and the financial strain of sudden duty impositions. This uncertainty forces companies to adapt rapidly, often leading to increased costs or the need to explore alternative sourcing options.

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5. Demographic Shifts: The Age of Work in Cumberland County

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring the "Age of Work," focusing on Cumberland County, Tennessee, where an aging population intersects with a struggling workforce.

• Neil Richardson ([09:02] - 09:15):
  "Economists love to say this demographics are destiny. And so what Cumberland represents is that tension between an aging population and a workforce who is struggling to keep up."

Ryssdal highlights that Cumberland County not only has one of the oldest labor forces in the country but is also a retirement destination attracting newcomers seeking a milder climate. This dual demographic pressure creates unique economic dynamics, impacting local businesses and social services.

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6. Case Study: Save A Lot Grocery

Ryssdal visits Save A Lot, a community grocery store in Crossville, managed by owner Melvin Davis. The store serves a diverse clientele, including long-time residents and newer retirees, reflecting the area's demographic diversity.

• Melvin Davis ([10:03] - 13:00):
  "I've been a grocer for 40 years... Our seniors seem to get up a little earlier in this area... They joke about not buying green bananas, but they're steady shoppers."

Davis discusses the challenges of operating a small grocery store amidst rising prices and labor shortages. He emphasizes the importance of serving both low-income families and retirees, who represent a stable customer base despite economic pressures.

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7. Workforce Dynamics and Employment Practices

The episode sheds light on the store's workforce, which includes a mix of long-term employees and newer hires, many of whom are seniors seeking purposeful engagement post-retirement.

• Melvin Davis ([12:14] - 13:00):
  "I've always felt like most small towns are letting their biggest resource slip away from them... The downside is the margins are so lean that once they finish working for me, I wish I could keep them, but they gotta go on."

This reflection underscores the delicate balance small businesses must maintain between lean profit margins and the need to retain experienced workers in an aging workforce landscape.

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8. Social Services: Cumberland Good Samaritans

Ryssdal also explores the role of the Cumberland Good Samaritans, a social services organization assisting residents with various needs, especially in the wake of Hurricane Helene.

• Teresa ([19:13] - 20:04):
  "We just purged this. We're sending a lot of food right now... When a client comes in to Good Samaritans, they're just telling us what their needs are."

Teresa, along with executive director Miki Eldredge, explains how the organization supports both immediate disaster relief and ongoing community needs, such as assisting grandparents raising grandchildren and providing job assistance.

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9. Balancing Economic Growth and Cost of Living

The influx of retirees has been a double-edged sword for Cumberland County. While they contribute positively through volunteer work and donations, their presence has also driven up the cost of living, creating financial strain for long-term residents.

• Teresa ([22:57] - 23:27):
  "Fairfield Glade in particular has been a really great boost for Cumberland county because these are folks...they invest in the community, they're involved in our churches."

This section highlights the essential role retirees play in stimulating local economies while also presenting challenges related to affordability and resource allocation.

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10. Personal Stories and Workforce Experiences

Through personal interactions with long-term employees like Teresa and newer hires such as Ann Lewis and Kathleen ("Cat"), Ryssdal humanizes the broader economic themes, showcasing how individuals navigate the interplay between aging demographics and economic necessities.

• Kathleen ([24:41] - 26:27):
  "I have to pay for my bills, my home, medical. And you can't live on Social Security."

Kathleen's story exemplifies the financial challenges faced by many seniors, underscoring the critical need for supportive social services and sustainable economic policies.

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11. Conclusion: The Broader Implications

Ryssdal wraps up the episode by emphasizing that the demographic changes observed in Cumberland County are a microcosm of nationwide trends. The aging workforce coupled with economic pressures necessitates adaptive strategies in both policy and community support systems.

• Kai Ryssdal ([25:33] - 25:50):
  "Demographic changes brought on by the aging U.S. economy have created both opportunities and challenges in Cumberland County... these changes are just the leading edge of a shift coming for the US Economy as a whole."

This closing reflection invites listeners to consider how these localized changes reflect and inform broader economic transformations across the country.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jay Powell ([00:56] - 01:04):
  "We want policy to be restrictive enough to continue to foster further progress toward a 2% inflation goal."

• Matt Levin ([03:38] - 05:34):
  "Consumers have also proven pretty interest rate resistant."

• Melvin Davis ([10:03] - 13:00):
  "I've always felt like most small towns are letting their biggest resource slip away from them."

• Kathleen ([24:41] - 26:27):
  "And you can't live on Social Security."

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Conclusion: "Cents and Sensitivity" offers a comprehensive exploration of how macroeconomic policies and demographic shifts intersect to shape local economies and individual lives. Through expert analysis and heartfelt personal stories, Marketplace provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges and adaptations necessary in an evolving economic landscape.

Transcript

[Kai Ryssdal]

On the program today, interest rates and older workers between them. Honestly, pretty much the future of this economy. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kai Rysdal. It is Wednesday today, 29th January. Good as always to have you along, everybody. We are going to go back to Tennessee. Our series the Age of Work about the changing and aging demographics of this economy in the second half of the program. But we begin today in the halls of monetary policy power in Washington, D.C. fed Chair Jay Powell's press conference.

[Jay Powell]

I think our policy stance is very well calibrated, as I mentioned, to balance the achievement of our two of our two goals.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Policy stance, in Fed speak, of course, means interest rates. Two goals means maximum employment and stable prices.

[Jay Powell]

We want policy to be restrictive enough to continue to foster further progress toward a 2% inflation goal. @ the same time, we don't need to see further weakening in the labor market to achieve that goal.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Cutting to the chase, reading between the lines, pick your metaphor. No change in interest rates today. Powell says the economy is doing fine. They're going to want to see more data before they decide when or to be clear whether to cut interest rates again. Now, about this particular moment in this.

[Jay Powell]

Economy, economic forecasting is really difficult beyond just a month or two out. So in the current situation, there's probably some elevated uncertainty because of, you know, significant policy shifts in those four areas that I mentioned, tariffs, tariffs, immigration, fiscal policy and regulatory policy. So there's probably some additional uncertainty, but that should be passing. We should go through that and then we'll be back to the regular of uncertainty.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Ah, yes, the regular amount of uncertain. It should be noted here that question number one to the Fed Chair today was about President Trump and his demand. That's the President's word the other day for lower interest rates. Powell was not interested.

[Jay Powell]

I'm not going to have any, any response or comment whatsoever on what the President said. It's not appropriate for me to do so.

[Kai Ryssdal]

He has not heard directly from the President. The Fed Chair said Wall street on this Wednesday, traders, honestly, they were a little cranky even before Powell started talking. We will have the details when we do the numbers. Jay Powell told me once in an interview, if I could name drop here for just a second, that one of his rules to live by is to control the controllable, which is to say set aside as best you can that which you cannot control, and fiscal policy, things that Congress and the White House are in charge of, tariffs, immigration, deficits. That falls squarely in the Fed's no control category. What the Fed does control is monetary policy and specifically the federal funds rate. How the economy actually responds to that rate though, and interest rates generally, that's a little more complicated. Marketplace's Matt Levin is on the interest rate sensitivity beat for us today.

[Matt Levin]

Housing is supposed to be the most interest rate sensitive sector of all the sectors. So when the Fed cuts interest rates, people expect mortgage rates to also go down. But when the Fed did cut its rate three times over the second half of last year, mortgage rates went up. Fed cut short term rates by 100 basis points and longer term rates like mortgage rates went up 100 basis points. You look historically that's not typically what happened. Michael Fratten Tony is an economist with the Mortgage Bankers Association. Housing wasn't all that sensitive to the Fed, partly because mortgage rates are tied to what the federal government pays to borrow money and those rates are going up. Global bond investors getting honestly concerned about deficits, debt. It's not just bond vigilantes harshing J Pal's mellow. When the Fed sets rates, it's really setting the interest rates banks pay to borrow from one another and those rates ripple through the rest of the economy. But Thomas Urano at Sage Advisory says nowadays businesses don't have to go to banks. They can go to private credit or private equity.

[Neil Richardson]

The number of people who are willing to extend loans right outside of the.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Banking system that has seen prolific growth over the last five years.

[Matt Levin]

Consumers have also proven pretty interest rate resistant. Olusinola at Fitch Rating says that since the pandemic, the big spenders are rich enough to avoid borrowing money to buy stuff. When you think about the sensitivity of high income households and they do the bulk of the spending, not much this time around, to be clear. Sonola says the economy overall is still sensitive to the Fed, just not as sensitive as he thought it was. I'm Matt Levin for Marketplace.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Tariffs came up in Jay Powell's press conference today. And as he usually does, the Fed chair steered well clear. There are, after all, a great many unknowns about what President Trump is going to do until he does it. Canada, Mexico, China, they've all been in the tariff mix. Tariffs were threatened against Colombia over the weekend and then they weren't. Uncertainty is one way to put all that. So we got our tariff regular on the phone, Gretchen Blau, she's a customs brokerage manager at Logistics plus in Erie, Pennsylvania to hear how things are going.

[Gretchen Blau]

Just a lot of wait and see, a little bit of confusion mixed in. A lot of answering questions for customers that we really can't answer. Just kind of trying to reassure them that we're all in the same boat, no pun intended. But it's kind of frustration on our part because we like helping people, and when we don't have answers, we feel a little frustrated. People need some options. One thing we run into already is the quotas for steel and aluminum. They're on a quarterly basis. After so many kilograms of steel from the UK, Japan and the EU are in the US the quota shuts down and then the 25% still steel tariff kicks in. Well, since there was so much anticipation of the confusion in January, people put a lot of their steel in bonded warehousing. So when they took it out at the beginning of January, it's caused the quota to be closed already three weeks into the first quarter of the year. Depending on how desperate they are for the steel, they might have to pay the 25% duty or possibly export it back out of the US and explore their options from there. I'm considering turning off the notifications on my phone because it gets a little stressful here and there. But that's not really an option because we do have to try to keep up with what's going on from a practical sense that we need to be able to tell people, you know, what, what to do, how to make plans, if it's possible. Once there's any kind of policy as to the tariffs, we're going to be, you know, really jumping in and helping out our customers because that's what we're going to need to do.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Gretchen Blau, Logistics plus Erie, Pennsylvania. We're going to pick up now where we left off yesterday with our new series the Age of Work, about what it's like to live in an economy that is getting older. The US Population, as you probably know, is on the cusp of a massive demographic change. The share of working age, people shrinking compared to the wave of retiring baby boomers. Neil Richardson, chief economist at adp, joined me in Cumberland County, Tennessee this past fall to see what that looks like in a place where the change is already well underway.

[Neil Richardson]

Economists love to say this demographics are destiny. And so what Cumberland represents is that tension between an aging population and a workforce who is struggling to keep up.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Cumberland county has one of the oldest labor forces in the country. That's according to ADP's data. But it's happening for maybe not the reasons you'd think. Yes, the local population is aging, but it's also a retirement destination for people looking to escape northern winters. A lot of those people moved to a retirement community in Cumberland county called Fairfield Glade. We've talked about that. Today, though, we're going to look at two companies in Crossville, the town next door, very much aimed at the local population. Save a lot. Save a Lot is a very community. Community grocery store.

[Melvin Davis]

Nice to meet you.

[Miki Eldredge]

Nice to meet you.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I'm Kai.

[Melvin Davis]

Kai, I'm Bill.

[Kai Ryssdal]

How are you?

[Melvin Davis]

Nice to meet you, sir.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Owner Melvin Davis is standing by the bread racks and the shopping baskets when we get there.

[Melvin Davis]

I've been a grocer for 40 years. Time's just flying by.

[Kai Ryssdal]

The place isn't huge. Just four check stands and pretty narrow aisles compared to some of the big grocery chains. How's business? Good.

[Melvin Davis]

I imagine it's steady. It's steady. We just had good Samaritans here and picked up $3,500 worth of product right off the shelves to take to North.

[Matt Levin]

Carolina in the morning to help with.

[Neil Richardson]

The rebuilding efforts there.

[Melvin Davis]

Sure has.

[Neil Richardson]

That is great.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You're going to hear from Cumberland Good Samaritans, that organization he mentioned a little bit later in the program. But the main reason we came here to Melvin's grocery store is because of the service that he provides five days a week. Senior discount day, 7am to noon. You see a lot of that traffic.

[Melvin Davis]

We do. We do. Our seniors seem to get up a little earlier in this area. We needed to have something for them to do.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah.

[Melvin Davis]

They joke about not buying green bananas, but they're steady shoppers.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You have to think about that one for a second, and you're like, oh, that's really dark.

[Neil Richardson]

So inflation, how has that affected your client base, your seniors, and are they noticing that prices aren't going up as fast? Okay, they've noticed the price increase. Have they noticed the fact that it's not going up quite as much, or are they focused still on the price increase?

[Melvin Davis]

In my. I mean, I started out as a bag boy, and so I've been doing it a long, long time. And, you know, I've sold a box of crackers for 49 cents for four decades. That box of crackers, almost $2. I make less money at $2 than I did at 49 cents. You know, so I watch my customers come in. They're very, very careful what they shop for, what they're buying. You know, they'll go buy the meat case, and they're like, I'd like to have that roast, but I'm not gonna spend the money.

[Neil Richardson]

So those crackers are not going to be under 50 cents ever again.

[Melvin Davis]

Probably not.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah. So your clientele that's coming here, right? I mean, we've been spending some time over in Fairfield Glade with some retirees who have some disposable income. You seeing them come and share some of that with you?

[Melvin Davis]

We have a great mix. This program is set up for low income and fixed income, but we're servicing a little bit of everybody.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Melvin's got about 22 employees, some of whom have been with him for 40 years. The youngest are high school kids making minimum wage, $7.25 an hour.

[Melvin Davis]

I've always felt like most small towns are letting their biggest resource slip away from them. You've got graduating classes of 200, 300 seniors, and they just disappear. And I think you should grab them at their freshman year and start taking them around and showing them all the business in town. Forklift drivers, mechanics, technicians. And show them that there's work here in my business. The downside is the margins are so lean that once they finish working for me, I wish I could keep them, but they gotta go on.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I think he wants a basket. There we go. Sorry about that. The people who work and shop in this store are facing the same economic forces all of us have been dealing with the past couple of years. Higher prices and labor shortages. But there is something else happening here. Specifically, demographic changes, both from the local population aging and the new people moving in.

[Melvin Davis]

Now, would you like to walk through the store there?

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah, let's do that. All right, show us what's going on.

[Melvin Davis]

I want to introduce you to Ms. Teresa.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Hi, Theresa.

[Melvin Davis]

How are you?

[Kai Ryssdal]

That's all right.

[Melvin Davis]

She's just a match.

[Teresa]

How are you?

[Miki Eldredge]

Nice to meet you.

[Kathleen]

Nice to meet you.

[Kai Ryssdal]

How are you?

[Neil Richardson]

I'm Neela. Good to meet you.

[Kai Ryssdal]

How long you been here?

[Matt Levin]

40 years.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Is that right?

[Teresa]

40 long years.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You weren't kidding, were you?

[Melvin Davis]

I was 18 when she came.

[Teresa]

Yeah.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Why'd you stick around?

[Teresa]

I love doing what I do.

[Melvin Davis]

Now, as you go through the store, what happens is you find a family of workers and you drill down. So now we have Teresa. Teresa's sister. Teresa's mama's in here. And we've worked all the nieces and the nephews, all the grandkids, all the sons, all the.

[Kai Ryssdal]

It's a labor pool, man. Your family is like a whole labor pool in and of itself.

[Neil Richardson]

This is an extended family business.

[Teresa]

My mom is the 79 year old back there, and she said a while ago, I have to leave to go to the doctor. And I said, that's okay. Seniors go to the doctor so she has to leave.

[Neil Richardson]

So you gave your mom time off.

[Teresa]

To go to the she'll be leaving here in a few minutes.

[Kai Ryssdal]

We did run into trees. Mom. Eula a little bit later as she was unloading produce.

[Gretchen Blau]

Keeps me young.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I was just gonna say. Can I ask you how old you are?

[Teresa]

79.

[Kai Ryssdal]

And in this family business, a lot of things still get done the old fashioned way. They use a buzzer system to call bag boys instead of the intercom. Workers get paid with actual physical paychecks. No direct deposit here, thank you very much.

[Melvin Davis]

There's something special about walking in and getting your paycheck.

[Kai Ryssdal]

But as much as things have stayed the same in this community grocery store, the community around them is changing. That's after the break, but first let's do the numbers. Dows industrials off 136 points today. 3. 10% closed at 44,713. The Nasdaq shed 101 points, about a half percent. 19,632. The S&P 500 slid 28 points again about a half percent. 6,039. T Mobile climbed six and a third percent, down better than expected fourth quarter earnings and revenue. The telecommunications company also issued optimistic full year guidance as it reported strong customer growth. Figures at AND T gave back about 7/10 of 1%. The electric vehicle maker Rivian slowed 2.3%. Research firm Bernstein initiated coverage of the company with an underperformed form rating. Bernstein said the automaker seems to be years away from making a profit. That cannot be good. Bonds rose Yield on the 10 year T note, down 4.53%. You're listening to Marketplace. If you want to be savvy about the economy, the Marketplace newsletter is just what you need. Every Friday you'll get explainers and analysis that makes sense of everything from the moving markets to grocery prices. No jargon, no hype, just smart takes delivered to your inbox. Sign up [e-mail] subscribe.

[Kathleen]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

I'm Kai Ryssdal. We're continuing with our reporting this week from Cumberland County, Tennessee, a place with a high concentration of older workers because a lot of retirees are moving to the area and that is changing the local economy. But the demographic changes happening here are eventually coming for all of us.

[Teresa]

Hi guys.

[Neil Richardson]

Hi. Hi.

[Teresa]

How are you doing?

[Kai Ryssdal]

That's Miki Eldredge. She's the executive director of Cumberland Good Samaritans, a social services organization that's been around for 45 years. She has been running it for 25. You remember how earlier Melvin Davis at Save A Lot Grocery said somebody had picked up $3,500 worth of goods for hurricane victims in North Carolina. Well, here it is over here.

[Teresa]

We just purged this. We're sending a lot of food right now. Were buying a lot of stuff. Heading out to hurricane victims When a.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Big disaster hits Cumberland. Good Samaritans collects and distributes donations and in the months after Hurricane Helene, they send two to three trailers a week to people in affected rural communities. Their main focus though, obviously is closer to home.

[Teresa]

When a client comes in to Good Samaritans, they're just telling us what their needs are. They don't walk in the door unless they're having trouble either paying their rent or utilities or if they've gotten a job, maybe they need help getting steel toed boots or, you know, a uniform. They're not going to have a paycheck for a while and so they need help getting Squared around until. But then we look at the bigger picture and ask, what else do you need?

[Kai Ryssdal]

Would you do me a favor and characterize need in this place as broadly as you want to define it?

[Teresa]

Well, need depends on the person that walks in the door. What we do is take them and look at how we change their circumstance or situation. I have job developers. If somebody needs more income or just income, period, if they're job searching, it may be that it's a single parent or grandparents that have taken on raising grandchildren. We have a lot of grandparents that we work with.

[Kai Ryssdal]

They fund all this work through donations and revenue from a thrift store.

[Teresa]

I have 25 employees and about 100 volunteers. We have a lot of programs, but most of my volunteers are seniors and most of them just want to continue to be productive and make a difference in retirement.

[Neil Richardson]

I was wondering, you talked about you see a lot of grandparents coming in trying to make ends meet. How did they become grandparents who were raising their children? Can you fill out that story for us?

[Teresa]

Well, you're in an area and it's not uncommon. I don't think to the rest of Tennessee or any other state in the nation. We have a lot of people that have struggled with drug or alcohol abuse and grandparents have to step up and take over. And so for the most part, those grandparents are already living on fixed incomes. And you know, Social Security was never intended to be be your retirement. But for many people in rural areas, Social Security is their retirement income and they go get part time jobs to supplement for what they need.

[Neil Richardson]

How have the recent retirees, the people who are moving to Fairfield Glade and to Crossville from bigger cities, how has that changed the economy, if at all?

[Teresa]

Well, Fairfield Glade in particular has been a really great boost for Cumberland county because these are folks and it's interesting because so many of them sold homes where they were and got a lot more out of them than they would pay for a home here. But they invest in the community, they're involved in our churches. And I gotta be honest, the reason we have so many successful nonprofits in this country, community providing services and making a difference in lives is because the retirees that have moved here still want to be productive and make a difference. And they're very generous with their time, their hands, their money and they're supportive of the community.

[Kai Ryssdal]

And that's the paradox of the economy here in Cumberland County. Retirees moving in have driven up the cost of living for the people already here. You remember Melissa Ellis, the musician and mom of four that we Heard from.

[Teresa]

On Monday, you know what we were looking at?

[Kai Ryssdal]

Someday we'll buy a house. And since 2020, with the massive housing market, the jump, I cannot imagine anytime in our near future if ever that's.

[Teresa]

Ever going to happen.

[Kai Ryssdal]

But at the same time, all those transplanted retirees have created jobs, and they support organizations like Good Samaritans with their time and donations. Let's go see the thrift shop. Can we do that? Oh, wow. It's got racks of clothing.

[Teresa]

Everything in this thrift store is donated.

[Kai Ryssdal]

And an endless variety of stuff lining the walls, rugs, mattresses. We got a lot of pair of tap shoes.

[Teresa]

This is what we call the workshop. When somebody pulls up at a back dock and drops it off, this is where it all starts.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Oh, wow.

[Neil Richardson]

Look at all of this.

[Teresa]

That pile's all clothing.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You've got a throughput problem because there's a pile of clothing there that's 12ft high.

[Teresa]

And two or three times a year, we get it worked down that you can see the floor. But I'm telling you, I just keep telling my staff, that's job security. I need you. I need you.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I grabbed a couple of workers as they were sorting barrels of clothing from that big pile. Can we chat for a moment? Would that be all right? Wait till my friend with the microphone gets here.

[Gretchen Blau]

Tell me your name and Lewis.

[Kai Ryssdal]

How long you been here? Ann Lewis.

[Gretchen Blau]

I started last November 14th.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Oh, so you're a newbie?

[Gretchen Blau]

Yes, I'm a newbie.

[Kai Ryssdal]

My goodness. Why are you here?

[Gretchen Blau]

Well, I had retired, and I found myself. After my husband passed, I found myself just sitting at home, not doing nothing. So I came down here and I got the job, and I absolutely love it.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Like Mickey said, some senior workers are here because they want to be. Some of them, but not all. What's your name?

[Miki Eldredge]

Kathleen.

[Kai Ryssdal]

What you doing, Kathleen?

[Miki Eldredge]

And they call me Cat.

[Kai Ryssdal]

All right, I'll call you a Cat. What are you doing?

[Miki Eldredge]

I am sorting.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Why do you do it?

[Miki Eldredge]

Because I have to pay for my bills, my home, medical. And you can't live on Social Security?

[Kai Ryssdal]

Can't live on Social Security.

[Miki Eldredge]

And I enjoy it, yeah.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Are you from around here?

[Miki Eldredge]

I was raised here. Went to kindergarten and high school, graduated here, and it's like home.

[Kai Ryssdal]

What was it like when you were growing up here?

[Miki Eldredge]

A lot different than it is now. A lot different. Things have changed.

[Kai Ryssdal]

It's busier. Life is, I imagine.

[Miki Eldredge]

Yes.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Demographic changes brought on by the aging U.S. economy have created both opportunities and challenges in Cumberland County. And as we've been saying, all week. The changes we're seeing here are just the leading edge of a shift coming for the US Economy as a whole. Thanks, Ken. I appreciate it.

[Miki Eldredge]

What is your name?

[Kai Ryssdal]

My name is Kai. We're from Los Angeles doing a store. We work on a radio show about business and the economy and we're talking about the workforce, the labor force and how it's getting older and what that's going to mean. And you're part of that older labor force?

[Miki Eldredge]

I am.

[Kai Ryssdal]

How old are you?

[Miki Eldredge]

I'll soon be next year, 77.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You look great for 77.

[Miki Eldredge]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's this job keeps me young, younger.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Good. I'll let you get back to it. Thank you. Sorry to bother you.

[Miki Eldredge]

No, that's fine. Thank you and enjoy Crossville, Tennessee.

[Kai Ryssdal]

We have so far. We've been here since Monday. Tomorrow, Mila and I are going to reflect a bit on what we learned in Tennessee to wrap up this leg of our series, the Age of Work. This final note on the way out today, you have heard me mention, I'm sure, David Brancaccio and our morning report and how you ought to listen to him. You ought to listen tomorrow, especially for the first in a series of stories as David and his wife Mary rebuild after the Eaton fire.

[Miki Eldredge]

I look around and now all I see is all the hard work it's going to take to bring it back. And I'm wondering if I still have it in me to do it, if I'm still young enough to. To do it.

[Kai Ryssdal]

What do you do when the biggest investment of your lives turns to ash? Tomorrow on the Morning show, our media production team includes Brian Allison, Jake Cherry, Justin Dueler, Drew Jostad, Gary O'Keefe, Charlton Thorpe, Juan Carlos Tirado and Becca Weinman. Jeff Peters is the manager of media production and I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow. This is apm.