Demographics are destiny

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "Demographics are Destiny"

Episode Information:

• Title: Demographics are Destiny
• Host: Kyle Rysdal
• Release Date: January 27, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Demographics are Destiny," Marketplace host Kyle Rysdal explores the profound impact that shifting population demographics have on the economy. Focusing on Cumberland County, Tennessee, the discussion delves into how an aging population outnumbers the working-age group, shaping economic policies, business strategies, and community dynamics. This episode is the inaugural part of a new series called "The Age of Work," which investigates the global implications of demographic changes.

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Demographic Shifts: An Aging Population

The episode begins with an enlightening conversation between Kyle Rysdal and Neila Richardson, ADP's Chief Economist, who underscores the critical role demographics play in shaping economic futures.

Neila Richardson [02:19]: "Demographics are destiny. When you have more people who are retirement age than who are going into working age, it changes consumption patterns, deficits. The list is endless."

Richardson explains that the United States is experiencing a significant aging trend due to the retirement of the Baby Boomer generation and a decline in birth rates. This shift results in a higher median worker age, exemplified by Cumberland County's median worker age of 47, placing it near the top in terms of aging workforces.

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Case Study: Cumberland County, Tennessee

Cumberland County serves as a microcosm for understanding the broader economic implications of an aging population. With a population just under 65,000, approximately one-third are aged 65 or older. The county's median worker age and its position among regions with the oldest workforces highlight the pressing challenges and opportunities arising from this demographic trend.

Key Points:

• Population Dynamics: Over the next decade, regions like Cumberland County will witness increasing numbers of retirees compared to working-age individuals.
• Economic Impact: An older population affects various economic factors, including consumption patterns, government deficits, and labor supply.
• Global Context: This demographic challenge is not unique to the U.S.; advanced economies like Japan, China, and several European countries face similar issues. Meanwhile, developing regions in Africa and South Asia will have growing young populations, potentially reshaping the global economic landscape.

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Economic Implications

The aging workforce presents multifaceted challenges for the economy:

1. Labor Supply and Immigration:

   • With fewer prime-age workers (25-54), the labor market faces a shortage, potentially driving up labor costs and inflation.
   • Immigration emerges as a partial solution to bolster the workforce, though it brings its own set of debates and policy considerations.

2. Consumption and Spending Patterns:

   • Older populations tend to spend differently, focusing more on healthcare, leisure, and services catering to their needs.
   • Shifts in spending can influence various industries, from real estate to retail, necessitating adjustments by businesses.

3. Government Spending and Deficits:

   • Increased entitlement spending on pensions, healthcare, and social security strains public finances.
   • Rising deficits may lead to policy reforms or increased taxation, affecting both individuals and businesses.

4. Business Competitiveness:

   • Companies face the challenge of maintaining competitiveness amidst a shrinking workforce.
   • Innovation and automation may become critical pathways to sustaining economic growth.

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Personal Stories: Fairfield Glade Community

To illustrate the human side of these demographic changes, the podcast visits Fairfield Glade, a prominent retirement community in Cumberland County. Here, host Kyle Rysdal interacts with Mary Jo Page, the community's Marketing Director, and Melissa Ellis, a local musician.

Fairfield Glade Highlights:

• Community Growth: Since 2013, Fairfield Glade has expanded by 32%, attracting retirees with its amenities like lakes, golf courses, and recreational facilities.

  Mary Jo Page [10:09]: "Over the last 11 years that I've been here, we've grown 32%."

• Economic Strain: While the community thrives, the influx of higher-income retirees drives up housing prices and demands for services, creating tension with existing lower-income residents.

  Melissa Ellis [16:08]: "When this lake was finished, we had a huge growth spurt in Fairfield and people were coming down here and building these mansions that were basically costing a quarter or so of the price that they were getting where they were from."

• Workforce Challenges: Many residents in Fairfield Glade are retirees who engage in part-time work or volunteer activities. The community relies on external labor forces, adding complexity to the local economy.

• Personal Struggles: Melissa Ellis shares her family's financial struggles despite living in an affluent community, highlighting that demographic shifts can exacerbate economic disparities.

  Melissa Ellis [24:00]: "My husband works in packaging International, and while his position sounds impressive, he makes just over $50,000, which is tight for us with two kids in college and rising living costs."

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Challenges Faced by Residents

The podcast delves into the personal challenges faced by residents like Melissa Ellis, who balance multiple part-time jobs to sustain their families amid rising costs and limited income opportunities. This narrative underscores that even in prosperous retirement communities, economic pressures persist, particularly for those not solely reliant on retirement income.

Key Challenges:

• Financial Strain: Managing budgets with fixed or lower incomes against rising expenses such as housing, utilities, and education.
• Employment Limitations: Limited job opportunities within the community lead residents to seek supplementary income through part-time or freelance work.
• Community Tension: The disparity between affluent retirees and lower-income residents can lead to social and economic tensions within the community.

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Future Implications and Policy Considerations

As Cumberland County and similar regions navigate these demographic shifts, several critical considerations emerge for policymakers and business leaders:

1. Sustainable Growth: Balancing community expansion with infrastructure and service capacity to prevent overburdening local resources.
2. Economic Diversification: Encouraging industries that can thrive with an older workforce or that attract younger workers to maintain a balanced labor market.
3. Housing Affordability: Addressing the rising cost of living to ensure that low and middle-income residents can remain in these communities.
4. Healthcare and Social Services: Expanding healthcare facilities and social support systems to meet the needs of an aging population.
5. Education and Training: Investing in education and workforce training programs to equip younger residents with the skills needed in a changing economy.

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Conclusion

"Demographics are Destiny" offers a comprehensive exploration of how an aging population is reshaping economies at both local and global levels. Through the lens of Cumberland County, Tennessee, Marketplace highlights the intricate interplay between demographic trends and economic policies, business strategies, and individual lives. As the series "The Age of Work" continues, listeners can expect deeper insights into the evolving economic landscape shaped by these fundamental demographic changes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Neila Richardson [02:19]: "Demographics are destiny. When you have more people who are retirement age than who are going into working age, it changes consumption patterns, deficits."

• Mary Jo Page [10:09]: "Over the last 11 years that I've been here, we've grown 32%."

• Melissa Ellis [16:08]: "When this lake was finished, we had a huge growth spurt in Fairfield and people were coming down here and building these mansions that were basically costing a quarter or so of the price that they were getting where they were from."

• Melissa Ellis [24:00]: "My husband works in packaging International, and while his position sounds impressive, he makes just over $50,000, which is tight for us with two kids in college and rising living costs."

• Neila Richardson [25:51]: "I have a legitimate fear that I will never get to retire and I will have to work until I'm dead."

---

This episode of Marketplace serves as a crucial reminder that demographic trends are not just numbers but real forces that shape communities, economies, and individual lives. Understanding these shifts is essential for preparing and adapting to the future economic landscape.

Transcript

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[Kyle Rysdal]

Sign up [e-mail] yes, there was market news today and we will get to it. But you know what's even more important to this economy? How old everybody's getting. From American public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Monday today, 27th January. Good as always to have you with us, everybody. A couple of months ago in Cumberland County, Tennessee, right next to a well used pickleball court, I met up with a colleague. Hey, how are you? It's good to see you. I'm great. Look at you. You look fresh from travel and everything. Holy cow. We're all like beat up, literally. That is ADP chief economist Neila Richardson. Here we are. I'm seeing my first pickleball game ever, by the way. Why are we here?

[Odoo]

Here meaning rural Tennessee, at a tennis.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Court near Cumberland County, Tennessee.

[Odoo]

We are here because Cumberland county is the future.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Cumberland county is about halfway between Nashville and Knoxville, population a hair under 65,000, and about a third of them are 65 years old or older. So how then is this place future?

[Odoo]

So if you look at people demographics and look at the trajectory over the next 10 years, what you'll see is that we in the US are a population that is aging. We're aging because boomers are hitting retirement age over 65 and because younger people are not having children at the same rate, which leads to places like Cumberland.

[Kyle Rysdal]

ADP handles payroll for more than 40 million workers all over the planet, which means it is sitting on reams of data about workers in this economy and everywhere else. And I should say ADP Research is funding this project and we asked Neila to crunch some numbers for us on the places with the oldest workers in the United States. Cumberland county, with a median worker age of 47, was right near the Top of that list.

[Odoo]

That's why we're here. The data brought us here.

[Kyle Rysdal]

I think I know why it matters, but you're the trained economist in the conversation. Why does it matter?

[Odoo]

It changes the economy. Economists love to say this. Demographics are destiny. When you have more people who are retirement age than who are going into working age, it changes consumption patterns, deficits. The list is endless. And so what Cumberland represents is that tension between an aging population and a workforce who is struggling to keep up.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Demographers will tell you, should you ask that. The United States has hit peak 65 with just about 4 million people reaching retirement age every year. It is the biggest wave of retirements in history. And that tension that Neela mentioned between an aging population and the workforce supporting them is. Is spilling over into debates about entitlement spending and deficits and immigration and the competitiveness of US Businesses. In a word, about the future of this economy. We're going to get to the global part of this in a minute. But it's not just here, right?

[Odoo]

No. In fact, if you look at any advanced economy, whether it's Europe, China, Japan, you see the same demographics at play. In fact, in Japan, they're even further along this trajectory where they have horizontally older workers and retiring populations being supported by an increasingly shrinking prime age workforce. Now, over the next 30, 40 years, those prime age workers will be in Africa, in South Asia, no longer in advanced economies, but in developing economies, some of them very, very poor.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Prime age workers. What Neela is talking about here are people between 25 and 54. They helped drive the American economy in the 20th century. And that group has made up a shrinking share of the US labor force since the 1990s. We're not even in the top 10 anymore. All right, so let's use that to bring it back home. Right. If Africa, Southeast Asia, traditionally poor economies have the demographic upper hand in the next half century or so. Right. What's that going to mean for us?

[Odoo]

Well, one thing it's going to mean is we're seeing more and more workers work for a longer period of time. They have to. Now, there's some good things that are underlying that. Health outcomes are better. People are living longer, they're being healthier into retirement. So for some people, this is not a bad life. But in terms of the economy, when you have more retirees on the backs of fewer workers, it leads to higher inflation and less. There's some way to get more labor supply when there's so much labor demand, which is an immigration question that's One of many.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Okay, so in the next two days, we're going to talk to a bunch of people. What are you looking for? What are the things that are on your mind as we set out on this reporting trip?

[Odoo]

First, I'm looking for a beautiful place to retire. You are younger than I am, and.

[Kyle Rysdal]

I will just say I'm not thinking about it, so don't you dare.

[Odoo]

This is a really pretty place.

[Kyle Rysdal]

It's gorgeous, right?

[Odoo]

Secondly, I'm looking for how people thrive in retirement. This is not just an economic issue. This is a quality of life issue. So if a community reorients itself to its aging population, what happens to the younger folks who are still here? Schools, extracurricular activities, housing. How does a community solve that problem? That's why I said immigration is not a singular solution to all the issues that come up when you talk about aging and demographics.

[Kyle Rysdal]

We came to Cumberland county to explore what happens to a place when working age people get outnumbered. And we thought we were going to find stories about a gradually graying rural community with young people leaving and older people forced to keep working. What we found, though, is much more complicated. And if demographics are destiny, then the dynamics at play here now are going to affect decisions that policymakers and business owners and the rest of us make every single day and in time, are going to transform every part of this economy and beyond. This is the start of a new series that we're calling the Age of Work, about how the demographic shifts happening here and abroad are shaking up the global economy. Our first stop is about 100 yards down the road from those pickleball courts at a community center. Ooh, it's nice in here. It's a little boomy, though. A little echoey. How are you?

[Odoo]

I'm Leela Richardson.

[Mary Jo Page]

Mary Jo Page.

[Odoo]

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

[Kyle Rysdal]

I'm Mary Jo. Kai Rysdal.

[Jeff Arms]

Nice to see you.

[Mary Jo Page]

How are you? Nice to meet you.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Mary Jo Page is the marketing director of the Fairfield Glade Community Club. It's a homeowners association, but a really big one.

[Mary Jo Page]

You want to come back?

[Kyle Rysdal]

Yeah, but actually, first, wait, can you. I just saw this map over here.

[Mary Jo Page]

Okay.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Can you tell me where we are on this thing?

[Neila Richardson]

Yes, just.

[Kyle Rysdal]

I need to orient myself. We are right here to orient you. I have to explain that Fairfield Glade is a retirement community with about 9,500 residents 10 or so miles from Crossville, the county seat.

[Mary Jo Page]

Well, it's 12,000 acres, so it's a big.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Lots of lakes and lots of golf courses.

[Mary Jo Page]

Yeah, 11 lakes, five golf courses. Well, thank you. Yeah, we love it here. We got a constant flow of people that are falling in love with Fairfield Glade and ultimately want to live here.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Says the marketing person. All right, let's. Let's go. Something you should know about Mary Jo. She is always selling Fairfield Glade.

[Mary Jo Page]

This are. These are our ballrooms. There's three of them.

[Kyle Rysdal]

On the way to her office, she walked us past gymnasiums. Oh, you can hear the pickleball through the doors. A cafe.

[Mary Jo Page]

This is an Olympic sized pool.

[Kyle Rysdal]

And then showed us into her plushly furnished office.

[Mary Jo Page]

I don't think we can fit everybody in here.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Yeah, we totally can. Mary Jo has been working in advertising for decades. She's been in charge of marketing here at Fairfield Glade since 2013. And like a lot of people you find here, she's not originally from Tennessee.

[Mary Jo Page]

Well, I grew up in the Chicago area originally, but I lived in Florida longer than I lived in the Chicago area. But I got down there and I loved it. And you either love that or you don't. My husband hated it. So we're what you call halfbacks. Have you heard that terminology?

[Odoo]

What are we?

[Kyle Rysdal]

Halfbacks.

[Mary Jo Page]

Halfbacks are people that live in the Midwest, the Northeast, move to Florida, decide it's not for them, and they go halfway back.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Oh, they come halfway back. That's great. Because of those halfbacks and other retirees just looking to escape northern winters, the median age in Fairfield glade is almost 70.

[Mary Jo Page]

Over the last 11 years that I've been here, we've grown 32%.

[Odoo]

I'm curious what happened during the pandemic.

[Mary Jo Page]

That's when the remote work started. And when the remote work started with people, they were like, why in the world would I want to stay in California? No offense, but they were saying that. And then they were like, we'll come here. We can remote work, we can hike, we can do all these things outside where you don't really have to worry about human contact. Because remember how strange it was there.

[Odoo]

For a while when, like projecting 10 years from now. Is there ever a point where it starts to change in character when there's so many people, maybe too many people coming?

[Mary Jo Page]

I think it's been very measured growth that we've been able to handle. And I suppose if you really were anti growth and you just don't want change, like some of the folks where I live currently are, they don't like the change.

[Odoo]

Is the labor force there to support that growth as well?

[Mary Jo Page]

I hope we're going to develop that really I do. I know hospitality. I know the state is really focused on that too. Because our number two industry is tourism in Tennessee. I'm really anxious for you to tour the area.

[Kyle Rysdal]

We will. We're going out tomorrow. Mary Jo has to project confidence about the future of Fairfield Glade. That is her job. But you can tell the workforce is on her mind. A lot of the people who live here in Fairfield glade don't work 9 to 5. Some take shifts at the community center or the racquet club. They get free golf in return, and many of them do volunteer work. But this is a community where most residents are well past their peak working years. As we promised Mary Jo, the next morning, we took a tour.

[Melissa Ellis]

Kai, what's happening? Welcome to paradise.

[Kyle Rysdal]

There we go. Are you loving it?

[Melissa Ellis]

Are you digging it?

[Kyle Rysdal]

It's gonna rain today, though. It's nice weather. It is gonna rain. Look around.

[Melissa Ellis]

If you don't like the weather, just wait 15 minutes.

[Kyle Rysdal]

That's local realtor Jeff Arms. What kind of car are you driving?

[Melissa Ellis]

My four door truck.

[Kyle Rysdal]

All right.

[Melissa Ellis]

Chevy Silverado. Just like Dale Earnhardt.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Just like Dale Earnhardt. Neil and I climbed into his truck.

[Odoo]

Riding shotgun with you, and let him show us around.

[Melissa Ellis]

These are our brand new bocce ball courts. Really exciting for our retirement community here.

[Kyle Rysdal]

We drove through leafy neighborhoods of ranch homes, looking out over lakes and golf courses.

[Melissa Ellis]

Lots of nature, lots of deer. You guys tell me or I'll just keep on rambling. You're not gonna put that in it, are you?

[Kyle Rysdal]

You're doing good. Well, I don't know.

[Melissa Ellis]

You're gonna edit that part out, right?

[Kyle Rysdal]

Depends on how you do, pal. We noticed quite a few out of state flags, too. People repping The San Francisco 49ers and Ohio State Buckeyes and other teams far from Tennessee. You've lived here for 25 years. You live in Fairfield Glade?

[Melissa Ellis]

Yes, sir.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Where'd you come when you were like 25?

[Melissa Ellis]

Yeah, well, actually, yeah. I just graduated from college. I went to turf grass school and started selling the dream. Eventually.

[Kyle Rysdal]

The reason we're driving around is to get a sense of how Cumberland county is changing. The typical person moving to Fairfield Glade, the kind of people that Jeff takes on tours like this one are older and wealthier than the local population.

[Odoo]

So what does the typical home sell for around in Fairfield?

[Melissa Ellis]

Fairfield Glade. The prices range from 200,000 to a million and a half.

[Odoo]

That's a big range.

[Kyle Rysdal]

A million and a half gets you a lot around here, I bet.

[Melissa Ellis]

Oh, it does. And now at one time, before COVID before inflation and before supply chains and whatnot, people were building houses down here, coming from California or from Chicago or someplace like that, and they were getting three times the house they could buy where they were. Now we've caught up to the rest of the world, but you're still. You're a million dollars. And as far as the taxes go, Tennessee's wonderful climate for your retirement money.

[Odoo]

I was looking at taxes and some of the homes for sale in Crossville, and they're low. I'm from New Jersey, so I'll position it that way. But they're what, a couple thousand on a $500,000?

[Melissa Ellis]

1,000 for 300. And now we're speaking very generally. I'm not a. I'm not a. There's one. Our little mountain views from the golf course.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Fairfield Glade kind of operates like its own city, even though it's on unincorporated county land. The HoA, which is of course funded by monthly fees from the residents.

[Melissa Ellis]

$118 if you're on the main sewer.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Pays for its own police force and road department. So who does, like, who's on your road crew? Where do they work?

[Melissa Ellis]

This guy right here.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Well, where do they live? They're not living here in Fairfield Glade. Right.

[Melissa Ellis]

Most of these places are from the county, but then again, there are opportunities for the. For the brand new retirees or even not even. So, brand new retirees that can come to Fairfield Glade work at one of the golf courses at the marina and you get your free amenities.

[Odoo]

Do you work mostly with buyers or sellers?

[Melissa Ellis]

Buyers. I love the buyers. The buyers are the happy ones. They're finally getting to be retired and be kids again. I always call them the new kids on the block because basically they are no job. Brand new place. Got this one closing next week. Nice house.

[Odoo]

So when people sell, do they stay in Fairfield or do they move out?

[Melissa Ellis]

They've got to go for family. They've got to go because they've gotten older or family member has gotten older. Something like that. Fairfield's never permanent for anybody. So my advice to you is get here as early as you can so that you can enjoy it and play all the golf you can stand and all the hiking and all the fun stuff.

[Kyle Rysdal]

The median income in Cumberland county is less than $60,000 a year. But a lot of the new construction here in Fairfield Glade is aimed at much higher income residents.

[Melissa Ellis]

When this lake was finished, we had a huge growth spurt in Fairfield and people were coming down here and building these mansions that were basically costing a quarter or so of the price that they were getting where they were from.

[Kyle Rysdal]

That's one of the tensions at play as demographic changes shuffle where people live. Retirees with buying power come here, increasing demand for certain services like construction and lawn care, which then changes things for the people who are already here. One of those people coming up after the break. But first, let's do the numbers. Well, here you go. Dow industrials up 289 points today, about 2/3 percent, 44,713. Nasdaq obviously went the other way, down 612 at the close it was 720 or something early in the session. 3 and a 10% at the bell, 19,341s and P 500 dragged down as well. Percent and a half, 88 points 6012. Tech stocks, of course plummeted after the Chinese AI startup Deepseek saw the rapid rise of a low cost chatbot it launched last week. Firm said it developed the app for a fraction of the cost of rival US Technology, raising concerns, as you know, about American competitiveness in the field and also, and this is significant about the large sums being invested by US companies like oh, Microsoft off 2 and a 10%. Micron technology dropped 11 and 7 10% Nvidia chip design company might have heard of tumbled almost 17% today. Bond prices went up. The yield on the 10 year tino down 4.53%. This obviously this whole AI thing, it's a story to watch and we will. You're listening to Marketplace.

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[Kyle Rysdal]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. We're starting a series today about what happens to an economy when working age people get outnumbered by people who are past their peak working years. We're calling it the Age of Work. In Cumberland County, Tennessee, that demographic shift is already well underway. It's a place with one of the oldest workforces in the country. That's according to adp. And it has two distinct populations. There's Fairfield Glade, a retirement community dotted with golf courses and man made lakes. And there's the town of Crossville, which is more duplexes and mobile home parks, fewer bocce ball courts and lakefront mansions. And at 7pm in the middle of November, it smells like fall out here. It was pitch black outside Melissa Ellis's house. Hi, kitty cat. Hi. Oh, I don't know. I don't usually just walk into strangers homes. That's not a thing I do. Hi, I'm Kai.

[Neila Richardson]

Hi, I'm Melissa.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Nice to see you, Melissa. How are you?

[Neila Richardson]

I'm doing good, doing good. Excuse the mess.

[Odoo]

Hi, Melissa.

[Kyle Rysdal]

I'm Neela.

[Neila Richardson]

Hi, nice to meet you.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Thanks for taking the time. We appreciate it. Sorry to crash in your home.

[Neila Richardson]

No, you're fine. No, you're fine. We've been working all day. We've had a birthday party all weekend, so.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Nice. Very good.

[Neila Richardson]

We're doing the best we can.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Melissa's 47, she's got four kids and she is a longtime Crossville residential. Is that an electronic drum set?

[Neila Richardson]

Yes, it is. My husband's a drummer.

[Kyle Rysdal]

That's awesome.

[Neila Richardson]

It's really great when we have to do like practices with me on keys and him there and we'll get to.

[Kyle Rysdal]

The practicing thing in a minute. First thing I want you to do is tell us who you are and what do you do around here.

[Neila Richardson]

Okay. So my name is Melissa Ellis and I feel like, I guess I'm the resident musician. I do jazz music. I feel like the music I do is kind of a favorite in the Fairfield Glade area, which is the retirement community. My music isn't exciting. Exciting to most of the locals because it's not Skynyrd is how I usually say Freebird. I know, and I do have people I could be doing Etta James one minute. Ella Fitzgerald. Never fails. Someone will say, hey, do you know Freebird? No, I don't. But yeah, I've been doing jazz and blues. I got my start at the Cumberland County Playhouse when I was 15 professionally, and I've done a little bit of touring. It was a regional theater.

[Kyle Rysdal]

So you're a lifer here.

[Neila Richardson]

I sort of am. I moved here when I was 12 and then I left and then I came back and then I left again and I've been back since 2013.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Do you get by doing it? How do you? How do you get by?

[Neila Richardson]

Okay, so before 2020, I was on the road a lot to stay relevant and to keep money flowing. And 2020, you know, if you're a musician, you lost your job. I learned how to do a lot of streaming and it kind of helped maidens meet. That same year, I also decided to go back to grad school.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Now Melissa makes a living with a bunch of part time jobs. She still performs occasionally. Her jazz music is especially popular with those higher income retirees over in Fairfield Glade.

[Neila Richardson]

They are my people. They are my people. They really are.

[Kyle Rysdal]

But she also teaches. She works for a couple of nonprofits and she's a session musician.

[Neila Richardson]

You know, people pay me to do background vocals or that kind of thing.

[Odoo]

What's it like raising kids here?

[Neila Richardson]

My older two are already graduated. If they ever got into any trouble, I knew about it. This town is so small. I mean, I know everybody, and if I don't know everybody, I'm going to. But it's a small town.

[Kyle Rysdal]

That small town, as we said, is getting bigger. The county's population has grown 6% since April of 2020. And not all the locals are happy about that.

[Neila Richardson]

They don't want to see it get big. They don't want to. Now there's some of us that do. It creates jobs. It makes our lives easier to take care of our kids. I mean, that's probably the hardest part, raising kids here is there's really no income. I mean, we're tight.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Say more.

[Neila Richardson]

Okay. So my husband and I are both. We both hold a master's degree. But he doesn't make a lot what he does for a living. He works in packaging International, you know, Packaging, you know, and whereas most people that do that in his field and in his position make over, you know, six figures, he makes a little over 50.

[Kyle Rysdal]

And so because he's here in Crossville.

[Neila Richardson]

Well, I think a lot of it has to do with because he's here in Crossville because, you know, they chose Crossville because it's an affordable overhead. He's the director of sales of the North American branch. And it sounds really impressive until you realize that, you know, he gets paid once a month. And we have to just be very careful how we spend throughout the month. Now, I have jobs that will fill out the holes throughout the rest of the month, but I remember for a while there, if we made it to the end of the month with just, like, a little bit left in our account, I mean, we were like, whoo, up top, boy. We made it with 20 bucks in our account. You know, we did it, but, you know, we pay our bills at the beginning of the month, and then we have to watch what we do for the rest of the month. And, you know, lately, you know, we have grocery prices that are way high. You know, our cars break down. I had to buy a new car this last month. And it's like, now some of our budget's going to this. And I have two kids in college and two kids still growing up. It's tight.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Stressful.

[Neila Richardson]

Yes, it is. It can be very stressful. But at the same time, I look at. There are a lot of people around here that have it far worse than we do. And we have. We have a roof over our heads. Granted, there's some leaks that we've had to have fixed. I got to patch that.

[Kyle Rysdal]

Melissa and her husband rent this house, leak in the ceiling and all. And given that the median home price in Cumberland county has increased something like 70% since 2020, that's according to Redfin. She doesn't really think they're going to be buying anytime soon.

[Neila Richardson]

It's crazy. So. And, you know, I think it's going to start balancing out, but it's never going to be what it was.

[Odoo]

I have another question. So you spend some time with the Fairfield residents, entertaining and talking to them. Have you ever thought about what retirement would look like for you?

[Neila Richardson]

Okay. So, honestly, I have a legitimate fear that I will never get to retire and I will have to work until I'm dead. But my husband and I have always kind of dreamed that what we would like to do. He's always kind of wanted to have a coffee shop, a cafe, and we talked about expatriating someday and, you know, living in Europe and having a small cafe, maybe, you know, a little jazz corner, you know, bring in jazz artists. But, you know, that's how I imagine I'm going to be. But I don't think I'm going to get to do that. I don't know what it's going to look like at this point. I don't think there's going to be a retirement.

[Kyle Rysdal]

The change that's happening in Cumberland county, the number of working age people getting more and more outnumbered is going to create opportunities and challenges for policymakers and businesses and you in the decades to come, because age and this economy are coming for us all. On the program tomorrow, a place where Fairfield and Crossville. No final today. Too much goodness from Tennessee. More of that coming tomorrow. By the way, our daily production team includes Andy Corbin, Iru Ek Bonobi, Nicholas Guillon, Maria Hollenhorst, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry and Sofia Terenzio. I'm Kyle Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow, everybody. This is APM at Capella University.

[Capella University]

Learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the courseroom to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Eduardo.