House brands

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "House Brands"
Release Date: January 24, 2025
Host: Kai Ryssdal
Description: Every weekday, host Kai Ryssdal helps you make sense of the day’s business and economic news — no econ degree or finance background required. “Marketplace” takes you beyond the numbers, bringing you context. Our team of reporters all over the world speak with CEOs, policymakers and regular people just trying to get by.

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Introduction: Navigating a New Administration and Economic Policies

The episode opens with Kai Ryssdal setting the stage for a week of significant developments under the new administration. He acknowledges the limited timeframe but emphasizes the importance of understanding the initial economic maneuvers.

Quote:

"One week does not of course an entire presidency define, but we learned some things past five days about where this economy is going. I think." — Kai Ryssdal [01:25]

Trade Tariffs and Executive Orders

Ryssdal engages in a discussion with David Gura from Bloomberg and Anna Swanson from the New York Times about President Trump's approach to trade policies, particularly the anticipated tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and China.

Key Points:

• Delayed Implementation of Tariffs: Despite promises, tariffs were not imposed immediately upon taking office. Instead, an executive order was signed requesting reports on various trade issues by April, suggesting a strategic and comprehensive approach to tariffs.

  Quote:

  "Even though we didn't see tariffs on day one, Trump still really likes and believes in Tariffs. And personally, I think it could mean just a bigger windup for some of the same tariff actions." — David Gura [02:24]

• Strategic Justifications: The reports requested by the executive order may provide legal grounds to defend future tariffs against potential legal challenges.

  Quote:

  "These reports... are going to give him a lot of ammo to pursue different trade actions in the future if he wants to." — David Gura [03:29]

• Impact on Europe and Global Trade: The administration’s rhetoric indicates a shift from previous alliances, with Europe feeling increasingly isolated and pursuing independent trade agreements.

  Quote:

  "Europe, we're on our own. And the sort of global trade for the common good order that we've had for the last 25, 30 years is no more." — Anna Swanson [04:51]

Federal Reserve Under Presidential Scrutiny

The conversation transitions to the Federal Reserve, focusing on Chairman Jay Powell’s role amidst the administration's economic pressures.

Key Points:

• Presidential Pressure: President Trump is vocal about his opinions on interest rates, potentially undermining the Fed's independence.

  Quote:

  "He is going to talk an awful lot about how he knows interest rates better than the current Fed chairman." — Anna Swanson [06:14]

• Inflation Concerns: Trump’s policies, including potential tariffs and demands for lower oil prices, are viewed as inflationary, challenging Powell’s strategies to maintain economic stability.

  Quote:

  "Many of the things he's proposed are inherently inflationary." — Anna Swanson [07:16]

• Future Fed Decisions: The uncertainty around tariffs and their economic impact adds complexity to the Fed’s upcoming interest rate decisions.

  Quote:

  "There's a debate about whether the Fed should consider them more of a one time price quote... or treat them as inflationary and then act against them." — David Gura [07:54]

Rise of Private Labels in Retail

Shifting focus to consumer behavior, the episode delves into the burgeoning market of private label brands, commonly known as house brands.

Key Points:

• Growth of House Brands: Sales of store brands like Target's Everspring and Costco's Kirkland have reached an all-time high in 2024, driven by consumers seeking cost-effective alternatives for everyday items.

  Quote:

  "Private labels are still sold mostly based on logic, you know, on rationality." — Jan Benedikt Steenkamp [11:50]

• Expansion into Perishables: There’s a notable increase in consumers purchasing refrigerated and prepared foods from store brands, indicating growing trust in these products’ quality.

  Quote:

  "There's a big uptick in customers being willing and in fact interested to buy prepared foods, chilled foods of those sorts." — Matt Hammery [10:33]

• Challenges in Personal Care: Despite success in other categories, store brands struggle to gain traction in personal care products where emotional and aspirational factors influence purchases.

  Quote:

  "In personal care, people are actually purchasing a dream. They're purchasing an emotion." — Jan Benedikt Steenkamp [11:50]

Community Spotlight: Trail Building in Tennessee

The podcast transitions to a human interest story highlighting the impact of retirement on community engagement through the example of trail building in Cumberland County, Tennessee.

Key Points:

• Volunteerism and Community Projects: Matt Hammery, a retiree, spearheads trail building initiatives, fostering community bonds and enhancing local infrastructure.

  Quote:

  "Nothing good comes from being rushed. That is within, you know, the website development that's within the pieces that I sew." — Kennedy Tweeten [14:14]

• Demographic Shifts: The aging workforce presents both challenges and opportunities, influencing where people live, work, and spend money. In Fairfield Glade, a retirement community, active retirees like John Conrad contribute significantly to local projects.

  Quote:

  "Retirement's a wonderful invention. I just love it." — Matt Hammery [23:02]

• Community Integration: Efforts like trail building and annual hiking marathons help bridge divides between longtime residents and newer, often more affluent retirees, fostering a sense of unity.

  Quote:

  "I just feel that it's doing good." — Matt Hammery [27:21]

Market and Financial Updates

Interspersed within the broader discussions, Ryssdal provides updates on stock market movements and corporate performances.

Key Points:

• Stock Performance: The Dow Industrials fell by 140 points, while the NASDAQ and S&P 500 saw declines as well. Specific companies like Boeing and CSX reported disappointing earnings.

  Quote:

  "Boeing descended 1.4% today after warning that its loss for the fourth quarter is likely to be nearly three times as big as analysts had been expecting." — Kai Ryssdal [16:13]

• Tech Sector Challenges: Texas Instruments faces a forecasted profit shortfall, indicative of broader challenges in the tech industry.

  Quote:

  "Chipmaker forecasts profits for the current quarter won't match. Analyst estimates TI subtracted 7.5%." — Kai Ryssdal [16:17]

Closing Segments and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with lighter segments, including a walk through Cumberland County and a humorous take on Elon Musk’s Twitter acquisition struggles.

Key Points:

• Local Business Feature: Kennedy Tweeten of the Aries Archive discusses her entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing creativity and the importance of patience in building a business.

  Quote:

  "I've learned so much about just grinding it out. Even if it doesn't work right away, it will eventually." — Kennedy Tweeten [14:19]

• Economic Outlook: Ryssdal teases the next episode's focus on the "Age of Work," exploring the implications of an aging workforce on the broader economy.

  Quote:

  "As the American workforce gets older... some of the dynamics happening in Crossville and Fairfield Glade are going to play out all over the country." — Kai Ryssdal [27:26]

• Humorous Note on Business Moves: A final remark on the Wall Street banks unloading debt from Elon Musk’s Twitter purchase, adding a touch of humor and current event commentary.

  Quote:

  "They want out so badly they are taken a loss." — Kai Ryssdal [28:02]

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Notable Quotes:

1. David Gura:
   "Even though we didn't see tariffs on day one, Trump still really likes and believes in Tariffs." [02:24]

2. Anna Swanson:
   "He is going to talk an awful lot about how he knows interest rates better than the current Fed chairman." [07:16]

3. Matt Hammery:
   "I just love retirement. It fills your time up." [24:08]

4. Jan Benedikt Steenkamp:
   "In personal care, people are actually purchasing a dream. They're purchasing an emotion." [11:50]

---

Conclusion:

The "House Brands" episode of Marketplace offers a comprehensive look at several intersecting economic themes under a new administration, the evolving retail landscape with the rise of private labels, and meaningful community stories that highlight demographic shifts. Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, Kai Ryssdal and his guests provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of current economic trends and their broader implications.

Transcript

[Kai Ryssdal]

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[Kennedy Tweeten]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

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[Kristen Schwab]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

About this week, shall we? From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Friday today. This one is the 24th of January. Good as always to have you along, everybody. One week does not of course an entire presidency define, but we learned some things past five days about where this economy is going. I think. David Gura is at Bloomberg. Anna Swanson is at the New York Times. Hey you two. Hey Kai, Ana Swanson, we go to you first and I will say only this. We were promised tariffs and yet here we are end of week one. I'm kidding.

[David Gura]

No tariffs.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I mean they are clearly coming, right? Canada and Mexico on the 1st of February and China maybe, I don't know. But it does seem that there has been a delay, shall we say?

[David Gura]

Yeah, it was somewhat surprising because the President had said on Truth Social that he would do tariffs on Canada and Mexico and China on day one. Now that's February 1st. We'll see if that actually really happens because those are sort of a negotiating tactic against those countries. But I think that at his core, even though we didn't see tariffs on day one, Trump still really likes and believes in Tariffs. And personally, I think it could mean just a bigger windup for some of the same tariff actions. This went a little more under the radar, but on day one, he signed an executive order on trade that requested reports on about two dozen different trade issues by April. And so those reports, I think, are going to give him a lot of ammo to pursue different trade actions in the future if he wants to. And they could also help shore up the legal justification, justification for tariffs so they wouldn't be challenged and struck down in court. So we could ultimately see, you know, tariffs that are more kind of comprehensive and strategic just in a few months instead of day one.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Let me read between the lines here. You think. You think they're coming for real?

[David Gura]

I think something is coming for real. I mean, you know, he's proposed so many different plans, we don't know exactly what they are. Are they, you know, universal tariffs for revenue? Are they against Canada, Mexico, China, Europe? But, you know, I know from a lot of years of reporting that he really does believe in tariffs, and so I do expect to see them.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Interesting to me, David Gura, that he wants to renegotiate early the trade deal that he signed with Mexico and Canada, the usmca. He's kind of going all in here early.

[Anna Swanson]

He's going all in. And, you know, it wasn't too long ago that he was really proud of that agreement that he negotiated with Canada and Mexico. But, of course, he's been making these threats since before he was inaugurated and left everyone hanging. I mean, inauguration was odd, chiefly because we were left wondering all day, how many executive orders are there going to be? What are they going to be on? And the week proceeded from there. And there was this big meeting in Switzerland, this meeting in Davos. And it's like, this is a big deal in my world at Bloomberg. And so there's like a week of interviews with CEOs, and I'd characterize the kind of zeitgeist or vibe there as a lot of kind of optimism and excitement about what he's doing. But then in every interview, a question of what are these tariffs going to be? How big are they going to be? But it did feel like markedly different set of executives than the last time he was there, in 2020 and in 2018 before that.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah, I thought it was interesting, Anna, that Ursula von der Leyen, on whatever it was the first day, Monday or Tuesday, gave a speech in which she basically said, number one, Europe, we're on our own. And number two, the sort of global trade for the common good order that we've had for the last 25, 30 years is no more.

[David Gura]

Right? Well, yeah, a few days after that, Trump, you know, was also pretty critical of Europe and his speech to Davos. Right. Talking about tariffs on Europe. So apparently the feeling is mutual. But, yeah, it's been interesting to see. You know, Europe also in recent weeks has kind of extended its efforts at signing new trade agreements with other countries. And it really is just a big shift from the Biden administration where the, the United States and Europe, we're working more closely as allies to take on issues with China, with the Trump administration. You know, it's kind of America against the world again, and that includes a more confrontational approach to Europe.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Speaking of confrontational approaches, David, he also said in that speech he's going to demand lower interest rates, which, number one, that's not the way it works. And number two, also his policies in and of themselves could prove to be quite inflationary.

[Anna Swanson]

Yeah. He also demanded lower oil prices and kind of looked at them in compliment. But, yeah, as you know, this is going to be a big test of Jay Powell, the Fed chair, who has thus far shown a lot of resolve and been really adamant that the Fed is insulated from political influence. But I think what we got this week was a taste of what's to come, and that is this president talking an awful lot about how he knows interest rates better than the current Fed chairman. He's going to opine on this a lot. There's been some speculation that he might work some way of kind of being somebody who has to be consulted on interest rates. We'll see what happens there. But I think what we're seeing shape up here is just a test that's going to play out over the course of this term. How can Jay Powell, whose term isn't up until 2026, deal under the pressure of a president who, unlike his predecessors, really wants to have his opinion on this known.

[Kai Ryssdal]

So, David, on the theory that the sound you hear is Jay Powell's head hitting his desk, we're going to play my favorite game. What is Jay Powell thinking in five words or less? You get to go first. Anna gets to think about it for a minute. Jay Powell, Fed meets next week. What is Jay Powell thinking five words or less.

[Anna Swanson]

David Gura, go what will the tariffs be? And I think that's just the big question that they're going to have to wrestle with as they come up with each and every interest rate decision. What's he actually going to do and what's the effect going to be? Just to go back to what you said a minute ago, Kai, so many of the things he's proposed are, as any academician will tell you, inherently inflationary. I think it has to be something that's going to be discussed a lot when the Fed meets next week.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Ana, before we get to your answer to the question, it's worth pointing out here that Powell will almost certainly say we gotta wait to see what the tariffs do. Right. Just in terms of what David was saying, Ana, that we just don't know. And he's not gonna speculate, right? He's not gonna answer the hypothetical.

[David Gura]

Yeah, yeah. Actually he was asked about it in December and he talked about how they were dusting off their data from tariffs in 2018 and seeing what they should do. But there is a debate about whether the Fed should consider them more of a one time price quote, unquote, look through them or treat them as inflationary and then act against them.

[Kai Ryssdal]

For whatever it's worth, I did see go by in one of my news feeds this past week. Maybe it was 10 days or so ago. What if the Fed's first move of this year is not even first move, but what if the Fed at some point raises and doesn't lower and then what happens? Anyway, Anna Swanson, over to you. You've had plenty of time to percolate on this one. What is Jay Powell thinking in five words or less? You're going to send us off into the weekend?

[David Gura]

Well, since David took the tariff one, I thought I'd just make a little joke and say don't call me bonehead because he did use that term before. Right. Trump spent the first presidency publicly attacking the Fed. I know that Powell says that he's not focused on that, but I think the question is Trump is certainly going to try to jawbone him this time, but is he going to do more than that?

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah, you got to believe Powell reads the papers. All right, Anna Swanson at the New York Times. JP David Gura, not Jay Powell. David Gura at Bloomberg. Maybe we'll get Powell on, I don't know, maybe never again after this. David. Val, David Gura at Bloomberg. See you guys. Have a nice weekend.

[Anna Swanson]

Thank you.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Thanks Wall Street. To end this week, traders were a little cranky. Details, numbers. You all know the Dr. American consumers need them though. This economy does can be a fickle bunch. We have talked about that quite a bit. Price is probably first among equals in why consumers shop the way they do. And new data from the private label manufacturers association shows that store brand sales names like Target's Everspring or Costco's Kirkland. The data backs that up. Brand sales hit an all time high in 2024. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab has more.

[John Conrad]

Shoppers traditionally turn to private labels when they're looking to save money on items that feel sorta ho hum, paper towels, glass cleaner, beans. But Matt Hammery, a grocery consultant at Alex Partners, says he's seen a shift.

[Kai Ryssdal]

There's a big uptick in customers being willing and in fact interested to buy prepared foods, chilled foods of those sorts of, you know, fresher, just warm it up, ready to eat.

[John Conrad]

Refrigerated foods was the fastest growing private label category last year, according to the Private Label Manufacturers Association. And Hamoury says that shows people trust retailers enough to buy their house brand of perishable food. Part of that trust is because of the sheer growth of national chains like Walmart and Kroger and how well they've gotten to know their shoppers.

[Kai Ryssdal]

The retailer decides what the flavor profile would be, the quality and effectively what they're doing there is they are taking a couple of steps further in building their customer relationship.

[John Conrad]

It's part of the reason why stores like Trader Joe's and Aldi have cult followings. But not all generic products are a slam dunk. Natalie Cutler leads retail and consumer products at bdo.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Retailers have in most cases, just one.

[Matt Hammery]

Chance to get it right.

[John Conrad]

One low performing tub of dishwasher pods is enough to deter people from making the leap to laundry detergent or even trickier categories like shampoo. Jan Benedikt Steenkamp, a professor of marketing at UNC Chapel Hill, says personal care is an area generics have yet to conquer.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Private labels are still sold mostly based on logic, you know, on rationality. And in personal care, people are actually purchasing a dream. They're purchasing an emotion, something that feels.

[John Conrad]

Aspirational or like a simple pleasure for hammering at Alex Partners, that's a crispy can of Diet Coke.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You know, I don't have it all the time, but when I do, I love it and I won't take anything else for it.

[John Conrad]

With certain purchases, brand loyalty is hard to break. I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.

[Kai Ryssdal]

If you need to know things as soon as you get up, I have a suggestion for you. David Brancaccio and the gang at the Marketplace Morning Report. Get out of bed really early to get you all the business and economic news you need to start your day. Check it out. We are down to four count Them four teams left standing in the National Football League playoffs. Commanders and Eagles are the early game on Sunday. Chiefs Bills in the late game. Four teams in of course means 28 teams out and 28 teams worth of game day outfits that fans wore all season long. Go back in the closet here with today's installment of our series. My Economy.

[Kennedy Tweeten]

My name is Kennedy Tweeten. I live in Mankato, Minnesota and I am the owner of the Aries Archive. I use thrifted and reworked materials to create game day pieces. I started the Aries Archive right after I had my son. I had really bad postpartum depression and my now husband said you used to love sewing. You should get back into that and you know you'll be able to be around our son and work at the same time. So I picked that up. My sister in law is a influencer for the Vikings and she said I need custom pieces because I need content. If you could send me a box of stuff and I'll promote it. And it just took off from there. My favorite materials to use are actually like blankets and towels and flags actually is one of my favorite things. All of the business is through social media, most of it is through Instagram. And the biggest challenge is being able to make enough material and have enough content to post. Off season I typically slow down. I still try to make things, you know, like a couple things a week. And now specifically like I'll be shifting more into hockey, which is new. So I'm really excited about that. I have learned so much about patience. Nothing good comes from being rushed. That is within, you know, the website development that's within the pieces that I sew. I feel like I've learned so much about just grinding it out. Even if it doesn't work right away, it will eventually.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Kennedy Tweeten in Mankato, Minnesota. Aries Archive is her business. Tell us about your economy, would you? No matter who you're rooting for. Go chiefs marketplace.org Coming up, there's an.

[Matt Hammery]

Insatiable appetite for people to look and feed Yanks.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah, we give you a little bit of everything on this program. But first let's do the numbers. Dow industrials off 140 points today. A third of 1% finished at 44,424. The NASDAQ, NASDAQ subtracted 99 points, about a half percent. 19,954. The S&P 500 down 17 points. 3 10%. 6,101. For the week, the Dow picked up just shy of 2.2%. The NASDAQ added 1 and 2/3%. The S&P 500 gained about 1 and 3/4 of 1%. Boeing descended 1.4% today after warning that its loss for the fourth quarter is likely to be nearly three times as big as analysts had been expecting. The planemaker said the red ink is down to fewer jetliner deliveries and also that strike last year. United Airlines climbed 1.9% after a couple of brokerage firms raised their price targets for its shares. How about railroads, you say? CSX slowed down 2.9% after the railroad reported its profits in the fourth quarter were down almost 7% year on year. The auto industry, we got it all, man. Planes, trains, automobiles. Auto industry has plenty of Texas Instruments chip stock backed up. Thank you very much. I'll say that again. Texas Instruments chips stocked up. Thank you anyway. Chipmaker forecasts profits for the current quarter won't match. Analyst estimates TI subtracted 7.5% Sometimes things are hard to say. You're listening to Marketplace Foreign.

[Kristen Schwab]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

Let your employees know you've got their back by signing up for Gusto for payroll and HR. More than 300,000 small business owners use Gusto.

[David Gura]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

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[David Gura]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Ryssdal. On a sunny Tuesday morning this past November, I stepped onto a trailhead in Cumberland County, Tennessee. I'm gonna be too warm, man. I have to take this sweater off. It's mostly rural out here, kind of halfway between Nashville and Knoxville. Not quite 65,000 people. Morning, John. How are you? Fine.

[Matt Hammery]

How are you?

[Kai Ryssdal]

Good, thanks.

[Matt Hammery]

Beautiful weather you brought with us.

[Kai Ryssdal]

John Conrad is one of them.

[Matt Hammery]

Been living here in Cumberland county for 13 years. I retired here and just love it.

[Kai Ryssdal]

John was born and raised in the north of England, as you might be able to tell. And then with stops in Buffalo, Boston, and Tampa, he landed here.

[Matt Hammery]

The way we tell it is that Buffalo and Boston's too cold and Tampa's too hot. Halfway in between. Must be perfect. And it's been a great decision on our part coming here.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Very nice. Let's go for a walk.

[Matt Hammery]

Okay.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You're in charge. I am following you.

[Matt Hammery]

All right.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I'm here to meet people like John. He's 73, an engineer in his working life, but retirement has changed how he spends his time and his money.

[Matt Hammery]

We're going to go for a walk on the Soldiers Beach Trail, which we built 2015, 2017 proved to be very popular.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Tell me about this we build trails thing. How did you come to be in the trail building business?

[Matt Hammery]

For very selfish reasons. During my lifetime, I've been an occasional hiker when on vacation and things like that. But when I moved to Fairfield Glade, which is a beautiful area with hills and valleys and creeks, I was extremely disappointed that there were no trails, there was no access to all this beautiful countryside.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Cumberland county has one of the oldest labor forces in the country. According to adp, the county seat is a town called Crossville. But Fairfield Glade, where John lives, is a retirement community with a median age of almost 70.

[Matt Hammery]

In a rather arrogant way, and much to the horror of my wife, I wrote to the general manager and said I'd like to volunteer to organize volunteers to build some hiking trails here. Is that okay? Fortunately, they said go for it. We formed a trails committee, and it turns out I have a knack for finding talented people and exploiting them for my benefit.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Well, everybody's benefit, John. Come on. Well, yeah, you're going to be hearing a lot over the next couple of years about the wave of retirements coming to this economy. It's a massive demographic shift that we've seen coming for decades, and it's going to have implications for where people live, where they work, and where they spend their money. In fairfield glade, a lot of the retirees are healthy. They're also relatively active.

[Matt Hammery]

Like John, the trails committee in fairfield glade love doing rock work.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Rock work?

[Matt Hammery]

Rock work. They love picking up huge.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Are you kidding me?

[Matt Hammery]

Stone slabs and either making staircases with them or putting retaining walls and the like.

[Kai Ryssdal]

God bless them. Right?

[Matt Hammery]

Exactly. Yes. I much prefer sitting at a desk sending emails personally, but.

[Kai Ryssdal]

That's right. Oh, man. Boy, it is lovely out here. This is great. It was crisp the day we were there. Fallen leaves underfoot on the meandering trail drifting down from the maple and oak trees up above. All right, no pressure here, John, but here's a stump that they missed.

[Anna Swanson]

I'm just saying.

[Matt Hammery]

I'll tell them. All right. It was noted on national radio that you missed the stump.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Are you a trails guy from way back, like from when you were a kid?

[Matt Hammery]

No, no. I mean, as I say, I hiked occasionally, maybe three or four times a year, and that was about it. In retirement. It's become something of an obsession now. Retirement's a wonderful invention. I just love it.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Fills your time up. I guess it does.

[Matt Hammery]

I keep busy, have a reason for getting up in the morning.

[Kai Ryssdal]

My mother says to me all the time. She says, kai, there's so much time when you're retired.

[Matt Hammery]

Yeah, I disagree. You need a project.

[Kai Ryssdal]

John's got multiple projects going on. Trail building, of course. He also puts on an annual hiking marathon to promote use of the trails. And he created a tour group that visits local businesses and organizations. It's got about 500 people in it.

[Matt Hammery]

And we do police departments, fire departments, colleges. Anything where somebody is prepared to talk to 20, mainly retirees. We have, I think it's 120 destinations we've now visited.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Well, that's impressive.

[Matt Hammery]

And some of them multiple times. We have a yak ranch in crosswell.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I'm sorry, A yak ranch.

[Matt Hammery]

A yak ranch. I believe we've been there 43 times. There's an insatiable appetite for people to look and feed yaks cute things. And Ali has a good story to tell.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Oh, that's great.

[Matt Hammery]

I've just realized.

[Kai Ryssdal]

What's that? Did we miss the trail?

[Matt Hammery]

Yeah. My brain was having trouble figuring out what that bridge was. I thought we shouldn't have been going over a bridge.

[Kai Ryssdal]

What'd you do in Tennessee, Kai? Well, I got lost with the trail.

[Matt Hammery]

That's right.

[Kristen Schwab]

Yeah.

[Matt Hammery]

He built the damn trail and still got lost.

[Kai Ryssdal]

We did find our way to the lake view eventually. This is. I wish I just brought a book. I'd send you guys back to the car and just stay here for a couple hours.

[Matt Hammery]

You know, honestly, it's a nice, peaceful place. Isn't it beautiful lake?

[Kai Ryssdal]

God, it's beautiful. Here's the catch, though, and it's the reason we've come. Not everybody in Cumberland county gets to have a peaceful, active retirement like John Conrad. As we start to head back, tell me about the Fairfield Glade and Crossville Divide, because they're very different places.

[Matt Hammery]

They are indeed. The John Conrad perspective is that Crossville has been here many years with local Tennesseans and quite content. And somebody came up with a bright idea of building Fairfield Glade, building whatever it is. 15,000 lots and people started moving here and building homes, and they had more disposable income, I guess you'd put it, than the majority of people in Crossville. And this has led to a kind of divide between the two communities where the people in Fairfield Glade are mainly retirees with a little more money. The people in Crossville feel that these outsiders coming in with their different opinions and views and attitudes. I personally have not experienced in 13 years anything but a welcoming attitude. But you constantly hear stories about, oh, this happened to so and so or that happened.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Well, that's always the way.

[Matt Hammery]

That's always the way. Yeah. So I am very pleased and proud of the fact that the trails help to unite. There's no metrics for measuring it, but I just feel that it's doing good.

[Kai Ryssdal]

We came to Cumberland county for more than just a morning walk in the woods. Of course. We're starting a new series next week. It's called the Age of Work. Because as the American workforce gets older, the way it is here in central Tennessee, some of the dynamics happening in Crossville and Fairfield Glade are going to play out all over the country. Well, John, this has been a pleasure.

[Matt Hammery]

All right. You're very welcome. I hope you know a little more about Kublo county now.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I do Indeed. It's. It's inspiring, actually. A little bit.

[Matt Hammery]

Good. Yes. You don't have to just sit by your fire and do knitting when you retire. There are other. Other possibilities.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I'm gonna tell my mom.

[Matt Hammery]

Yes.

[Kai Ryssdal]

The Age of Work Episode one Coming this final note on the way out today, which I believe comes properly filed under the heading schadenfreude. The Wall Street Journal reports today that the Wall street banks that loaned Elon Musk part of the money that he needed to buy Twitter are getting ready to unload some of that debt at. And here is the relevant bit. 90 to 95 cents on the dollar. That is to say they want out so badly they are taken a loss. The Journal also reports on a Musk that the paper has seen that says, and here I quote, our user growth is stagnant, revenue is unimpressive, and we are barely breaking even. Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargoli. Donna Tam is the executive editor. Neil Scarborough is Vice president and General Manager. I'm Kai Rizal. Have yourselves a great weekend, everybody. We will see you back here on Monday. All right, this is APM.

[David Brancaccio]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

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[John Conrad]

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[David Brancaccio]

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