How fresh is that home listing?

Summary

Marketplace Episode Summary: "How Fresh Is That Home Listing?"

Release Date: December 30, 2024
Host: Kimberly Adams (in lieu of Kai Ryssdal)
Podcast: Marketplace
Description: Every weekday, host Kai Ryssdal helps you make sense of the day’s business and economic news — no econ degree or finance background required. “Marketplace” takes you beyond the numbers, bringing you context. Our team of reporters all over the world speak with CEOs, policymakers and regular people just trying to get by.

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1. Housing Market Dynamics

The episode opens with an in-depth analysis of the U.S. housing market's tightness and affordability issues, marking it as one of the major economic stories of 2024.

• Pending Home Sales Growth:
  [00:02] Kimberly Adams introduces the latest data from the National Association of Realtors, highlighting that pending home sales grew for the fourth consecutive month, increasing by 2.2% in November despite persistently high mortgage rates.

• Increase in Housing Inventory:
  [01:23] Despite the ongoing affordability challenges, there has been a modest gain in housing inventory.
  Elizabeth Troval reports that active listings have reached their highest level since 2020, according to Redfin's analysis. However, this increase is partly due to stagnant listings.

• Regional Market Insights:

  • Orlando, Florida:
    Rose Kemp notes that the housing market is beginning to balance, offering buyers more options.
    "For buyers, for the first time... you can probably go out and see five homes that have the potential for you." [00:59-01:23]

  • Austin, Texas:
    Kent Redding observes an uptick in inventory and expresses optimism for 2025 as a favorable time to buy.
    "We're still short by about 30% fewer homes on the market compared to pre-COVID levels, but inventories are trending in the right direction." [02:10-02:32]

• Challenges of Stale Inventory:
  Shahriar Bahari explains that many homes remain unsold because they are overpriced, with buyers considering additional costs like interest rates and insurance.
  "Houses are just sitting there largely because they're priced too high." [01:54-02:10]

• Economic Implications:
  Lawrence Yoon emphasizes that although there are more choices now than before 2020, the market is still significantly constrained compared to pre-pandemic times.
  "We are still short by about 30% fewer homes on the market compared to pre-COVID levels." [02:10-02:32]

2. Medicare Prescription Drug Cap

The discussion shifts to healthcare, specifically the new policy capping out-of-pocket prescription drug costs for Medicare recipients.

• Policy Changes:
  Starting January 1st, seniors on Medicare will pay no more than $2,000 annually for prescription drugs, a reduction from the previous cap of $3,250.

• Expert Insights:
  Benedict Ippolito from the American Enterprise Institute comments on the necessity of capping out-of-pocket expenses for insurance products.
  "If a health plan doesn't cap the amount you can be required to pay, that's not a particularly good insurance product." [04:00-04:06]

• Impact on Seniors:
  Matthew Fiedler from the Brookings Institution notes that while most seniors do not exceed $2,000 annually, around 1.5 million faced higher costs in 2021 due to expensive medications.
  "Most seniors aren't spending more than $2,000 a year on prescriptions, but at least one and a half million did in 2021." [04:15-04:28]

• Economic Considerations:
  While the cap benefits individuals, it introduces new costs for the federal government and taxpayers. However, Dusetzina points out that Medicare's ability to negotiate drug prices may help offset these expenses.
  "The new price cap will cost the federal government and taxpayers, but Medicare can now negotiate drug prices to offset some of the increased costs." [05:24-05:35]

• Premium Adjustments:
  Kent Redding and Samantha Fields discuss potential premium increases for Medicare Part D plans, although safeguards are in place to limit these hikes in the coming years.
  "If you are purchasing a Medicare Part D plan, your premium could potentially go up. But there are guardrails to prevent them from going up too much, at least for the next few years." [05:35-05:45]

3. Declining Adult Literacy in the United States

The episode delves into the concerning trend of declining adult literacy rates in the U.S., based on recent OECD research.

• Current State of Literacy:
  Daphne Greenberg, director of GSU's Adult Literacy Research Center, explains that about 28% of U.S. adults have literacy skills at level one or below, comparable to elementary school levels.
  "We really do rank very lowly compared to other countries. But this isn't a brand new problem." [07:53-08:33]

• Causes of Low Literacy:
  The reasons for adult illiteracy are multifaceted, including inadequate education, learning disabilities, language barriers for immigrants, and inconsistent curricula across states and schools.
  Kent Redding elaborates:
  "It's a very complicated issue in terms of the reasons why. Some received poor instruction, some moved frequently, others have learning disabilities or are immigrants learning a new language." [08:47-09:36]

• Impact on Individuals and Economy:
  Low literacy rates contribute to significant economic losses, estimated at $1.4 trillion in GDP and $100-$200 billion in healthcare costs annually. Additionally, poor literacy affects health outcomes and intergenerational educational attainment.
  Kent Redding:
  "Low rates of adult literacy can lead to a $1.4 trillion loss in GDP and $100 to $200 billion in healthcare costs." [11:06-12:05]

• Effective Solutions:
  Adult education programs that boost self-esteem and provide supportive environments can be effective, but currently, only about 10% of adults in need access these resources.
  Kent Redding:
  "These programs really help their self-esteem and increase their skills, but only about 10% of adults who need these programs are accessing them." [12:10-12:48]

4. Cash Stuffing: A Modern Budgeting Trend

The segment explores the rising trend of "cash stuffing" as a creative budgeting method popularized on social media platforms.

• What is Cash Stuffing?
  Cash stuffing involves physically dividing cash into different budget categories using envelopes or binders, with an emphasis on aesthetics and ritualistic organization.
  Lillian Carebake describes:
  "Cash stuffing is a modern twist on the Envelope System. Stuffers post videos of neatly organizing their bills, almost like an unboxing video for their paycheck." [16:17-16:32]

• Personal Implementation:
  Lillian Kaerbake demonstrates the process by categorizing her paycheck into a pink wallet binder with exact denominations for each category, enhancing the experience with visually appealing bills.
  "It's nice to look at clean, crisp new bills versus the dirty old ones." [17:04-17:41]

• Psychological and Economic Benefits:
  Studies cited by Ted Rossman from Bankrate indicate that using cash can reduce spending compared to credit cards due to the tangible nature of money. Additionally, John Roark explains the "endowment effect," where people value items they own more highly, potentially aiding in saving.
  "Consumers spend less with cash than plastic because it's more painful to part with cash." [18:00-19:12]

• Challenges and Criticisms:
  While aesthetically pleasing, cash stuffing requires significant effort, such as multiple trips to the bank, and lacks protections against loss or theft.
  John Roark:
  "If you lose your pretty envelope, there's no recourse." [19:15-19:30]

• Practical Application:
  Despite the drawbacks, Lillian Kaerbake finds value in the process, transferring funds to her Roth IRA and brokerage account after cash stuffing, indicating a blend of traditional and modern financial management techniques.
  "I love the process of opening it up, stuffing the money in, and having those pretty things makes it a more enjoyable experience." [19:30-19:40]

5. Sustainable Building with Cross-Laminated Timber (CLT)

Addressing the housing shortage and environmental concerns, the episode highlights innovative construction using Cross-Laminated Timber.

• The Ascent Tower in Milwaukee:
  Kate Grumpke introduces the Ascent, a 19-story high-rise in Milwaukee made primarily of CLT, marking it as the world's tallest hybrid timber-concrete building.
  "The Ascent is currently the world's tallest building that's a hybrid of timber and concrete." [20:44-21:04]

• Advantages of CLT:
  CLT offers significant environmental benefits by sequestering carbon dioxide, reducing reliance on high-carbon materials like steel and concrete, and promoting sustainable forestry practices.
  John E. Fernandez states:
  "Trees take carbon out of the atmosphere. When you cut down a tree to turn it into CLT, you're storing a lot of carbon into a building for a long time." [22:05-22:24]

• Industry Adoption and Future Prospects:
  Despite its benefits, CLT remains relatively rare in the U.S. construction industry. However, recent changes in international building codes and interest from major corporations like Walmart and Microsoft suggest growing momentum.
  Bill Parsons:
  "Changes in the international building code opened the door for high rises made of CLT, and there's some momentum around it." [22:27-23:48]

• Upcoming Projects:
  Kyle Howerton of AHM Group discusses upcoming CLT projects in St. Louis, aiming to inspire similar sustainable constructions nationwide.
  "We hope this building serves as a catalyst for more structures using the same technologies." [23:30-24:39]

6. Economic Indicators and Legacy of President Jimmy Carter

The episode concludes with a brief overview of current economic indicators and reflections on President Jimmy Carter's economic legacy.

• Market Overview:
  Kimberly Adams reviews the stock market's year-end retreat, citing declines in the Dow Jones, NASDAQ, and S&P 500.
  "The Dow Jones industrial average fell 418 points, 1%, to finish at 42,573." [13:16-14:46]

• Energy Imports and Natural Gas Futures:
  Historical comparisons regarding crude oil imports during Carter's presidency are made, linking them to current trends in natural gas futures and energy policies.
  "U.S. imports of crude oil reached a peak of just over 2.14 billion barrels in 1977, falling to just over 1.6 billion barrels by 1981." [14:46-21:04]

• President Jimmy Carter's Economic Philosophy:
  Reflecting on Carter's decision to appoint Paul Volcker as Fed Chair to combat inflation, the episode includes an archival interview where Carter discusses the political ramifications of his economic policies.
  Kimberly Adams:
  "Your presidency coincided with the last period of really high inflation... you were the one that suffered politically." [25:03-25:19]
  President Carter:
  "I don't begrudge the fact that it happened during the next term. I thought the next term was going to be mine." [25:19-25:31]

• National Day of Mourning:
  Following President Carter's passing, the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ announce closures for a national day of mourning.
  Kimberly Adams:
  "President Jimmy Carter passed away yesterday... The NYSE and NASDAQ will be closed for trading on January 9th for the national day of mourning." [25:24-25:31]

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Conclusion

This episode of Marketplace provides a comprehensive overview of critical economic issues ranging from the housing market's current state and healthcare policy changes to the declining literacy rates among adults and innovative budgeting trends like cash stuffing. Additionally, it highlights sustainable construction practices using CLT and reflects on the economic legacy of President Jimmy Carter. Through expert interviews and detailed reporting, the episode delivers valuable insights for listeners seeking to understand complex economic landscapes without the need for specialized knowledge.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rose Kemp:
  "For buyers, for the first time... you can probably go out and see five homes that have the potential for you." [00:59-01:23]

• Shahriar Bahari:
  "Houses are just sitting there largely because they're priced too high." [01:54-02:10]

• Kent Redding:
  "Low rates of adult literacy can lead to a $1.4 trillion loss in GDP and $100 to $200 billion in healthcare costs." [11:06-12:05]

• Lillian Kaerbake:
  "It's nice to look at clean, crisp new bills versus the dirty old ones." [17:04-17:41]

• John E. Fernandez:
  "Trees take carbon out of the atmosphere. When you cut down a tree to turn it into CLT, you're storing a lot of carbon into a building for a long time." [22:05-22:24]

• President Jimmy Carter:
  "I thought the next term was going to be mine." [25:19-25:31]

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the "How fresh is that home listing?" episode of Marketplace, providing a structured and detailed overview for those who have not listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Kimberly Adams]

What the year ahead will look like if you're trying to buy a house or fill a prescription. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Washington, D.C. i'm Kimberly Adams in for Kaira's Doll. It's Monday, December 30th. Good to have you along. The tightness and lack of affordability in the housing market has been one of the major economic stories of 2024. And to end the year in housing data tomorrow we'll get an update on home prices. Today we got the latest numbers on home purchases in progress from the national association of Realtors. Pending home sales grew for a fourth straight month, up 2.2% in November. And even though mortgage rates remain stubbornly high, we have seen some gains in housing inventory. MarketPL Elizabeth Troval has more.

[Rose Kemp]

In Orlando, Florida, realtor Rose Kemp says the housing market is finally balancing out. And for buyers, for the first time.

[Kent Redding]

In several years, there are options.

[Rose Kemp]

She says while before you might have had to pick between one or two homes in a zip code, now you.

[Kent Redding]

Actually can probably go out and see.

[Kimberly Adams]

You know, five homes, let's say, that have the potential for you.

[Rose Kemp]

And in Austin, Texas, Realtor Kent Redding says there's also been an uptick in inventory and he thinks 2025 will be a good time to buy.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Houses are selling, new houses are going on the market and we're not seeing wild swings. That's a healthy market to be in, though.

[Rose Kemp]

Active listings are at the highest level since 2020, according to new analysis by Redfin. It's not all good news. Redfin economist Shahriar Bahari says that's because many listings are stale inventory or a.

[Kimberly Adams]

Home has sat on the market for.

[Kent Redding]

At least 60 days.

[Rose Kemp]

He thinks houses are just sitting there largely because they're priced too high, while buyers also factor in other costs like interest rates and insurance.

[Kent Redding]

People are just looking for affordability.

[Rose Kemp]

And economist Lawrence Yoon with the national association of Realtors says if you look at the market before 2020, we are.

[Kimberly Adams]

Beginning to see more choices.

[Kent Redding]

But compared to pre Covid, right before COVID arrived, say 2019 or 2018, we.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Are still short by about 30% fewer homes on the market, he says while.

[Rose Kemp]

Inventories are trending the right direction, some homeowners locked into 3 or 4% interest rates are still staying put. I'm Elizabeth Trovall for Marketplace Wall Street.

[Kimberly Adams]

Today, stocks continued their year end retreat. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. With the new year comes a raft of new policies kicking in. Starting January 1st, seniors on Medicare will pay no more than $2,000 a year out of pocket for prescription drugs. That's down from this year's cap of $3,250. Now, limiting how much Medicare recipients pay for prescription drugs is a relatively new federal policy. It came out of the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act. Before the cap started phasing in this year, some seniors were paying tens of thousands of dollars a year out of pocket to cover their meds. Marketplace's Samantha Fields has more.

[Samantha Fields]

The whole point of health insurance is to make medical care affordable, at least in theory.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Insurance is supposed to be limiting big financial shocks.

[Samantha Fields]

Benedict Ippolito at the American Enterprise Institute says if a health plan doesn't cap the amount you can be required to.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Pay, that's not a particularly good insurance product.

[Samantha Fields]

Private health plans have long had some kind of out of pocket maximum, but not Medicare.

[Shahriar Bahari]

It was unusual in that it did not cap how much you could spend on, in this case, prescription drugs.

[Samantha Fields]

There was no cap at all. Matthew Fiedler at the Brookings Institution says until this year, if you were taking.

[Shahriar Bahari]

A really expensive drug and that drug was tens of thousands of dollars, that could translate into, you know, potentially thousands of dollars of out of pocket costs.

[Samantha Fields]

Most seniors aren't spending more than $2,000 a year on prescriptions, Fiedler says, but at least one and a half million did in 2021, according to the health policy nonprofit KFF.

[Shahriar Bahari]

One common reason people can end up with particularly high drug costs is they're taking an expensive cancer drug. Other scenarios include people with certain immune system disorders or people who have had an organ transplant and take immunosuppressive drugs.

[Samantha Fields]

And you never know when that might be you. That's why Stacey Ducetzina at Vanderbilt University Medical center says capping how much seniors have to pay for prescriptions is a big deal.

[Kent Redding]

This puts financial security there for people who end up developing a condition that needs a high cost drug so that.

[Kimberly Adams]

You know that the drug costs that they will face are not going to bankrupt them.

[Samantha Fields]

This new price cap will cost the federal government and taxpayers. But Dusetzina says Medicare can now negotiate drug prices and that should offset some of the increased costs.

[Kimberly Adams]

The other way that this comes out is through premiums. So if you are purchasing a Medicare.

[Kent Redding]

Part D plan, your premium could potentially go up.

[Samantha Fields]

But she says there are guardrails in place to prevent them from going up too much, at least for the next few years. I'm Samantha Fields for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

All over the world, according to new research, we're getting worse at reading the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, OECD surveyed 31 different countries and found that while a handful have managed to improve literacy over the last decade, most have been stuck at a standstill or are even in decline. Among those countries in decline is the United States. Here to discuss how that shift can affect people's personal economies and our national economy is Daphne Greenberg, a professor at Georgia State University and The director of GSU's Adult Literacy Research Center. Thanks for joining us.

[Kent Redding]

Thank you for having me on.

[Kimberly Adams]

So a report came out recently that showed adult literacy in the US Is decreasing. But first of all, what actually counts as literacy?

[Kent Redding]

That's a very, very good question, because most people think of literacy as reading, and sometimes they include writing. But we think of it as including a lot more. It includes numeracy, such as math. It includes adaptive problem solving. So that's being able to use a computer and the Internet and so forth to access information. But there's even a more general definition of literacy, and that is basically whatever an adult wants or needs in order to function to their full potential at the workplace, in society, and in their family.

[Kimberly Adams]

So how are we doing when it comes to literacy here in the United States compared with other countries, as well as how we did in the past?

[Kent Redding]

Yeah, so unfortunately, we're not doing as well as many people would think we are. About 28% of adults in the United States are reading at what's considered level one and below, which is really elementary skills. We really do rank very lowly compared to other countries. But this isn't a brand new problem. We really have not focused enough on the skills of our adults in this country. As a result, there are a lot of, you know, consequences both for the individual and for society.

[Kimberly Adams]

Most American kids, the vast majority, go to school and learn how to read. So how do we end up with adults who really struggle with literacy to the level that you're talking about?

[Kent Redding]

That's a really good question. The adult education student is very diverse in the reason why they are at the point they are. So for some of them, it's because they received very poor instruction. They just got passed along grade after grade after grade when they shouldn't have been. For some of them, they were sick as children and missed a lot of school. For some of them, they moved around a lot. And as we know that different schools in different states and different neighborhoods are following different curricula. Some individuals have learning disabilities, Some individuals are immigrants to our country. And so they're learning to read and write in a new language. It really is a very complicated issue in terms of the reasons why.

[Kimberly Adams]

There can obviously be a lot of shame attached to this. And people who struggle with reading or literacy may have developed some skills to hide it. What does it look like when somebody has low literacy, particularly in the workplace?

[Kent Redding]

So for instance, many, many, many, many years ago, I tutored a woman who was struggling with reading and she always came to my tutorial session on time. And I asked her how did she do that? And she said, well, she used to watch the Cosby show in those years. And she told me, well, I know that during the second commercial of the Cosby Show I have to get out of my house and take the bus and walk to the bus stop to get to you on time. And so they develop unbelievable compensatory skills. As another example, you mentioned the workplace, I used to know a person at a dry cleaners who had difficulty with people's names and so forth and he just literally memorized faces that went along with clothes. So they definitely, definitely do develop a lot of compensatory skills. And you're right, there is a lot of shame associated with low literacy in our country because there's an assumption which is incorrect, that every adult can read very well and is proficient.

[Kimberly Adams]

What's the broader economic impact of the fact that there are so many folks in this country who struggle to read?

[Kent Redding]

It has a lot of impact on both society and for the individual. So in terms of our economy, the Coalition on Adult Basic Education, for example, cited that low rates of adult literacy actually can leads to a $1.4 trillion loss in gross domestic product. Pro Literacy cites that there's 100 to $200 billion loss in terms of health care costs. Because you can imagine that if you have difficulty reading and using the Internet and so much of health care now is on the portals that you have difficulties accessing health care, you have difficulties reading medical instructions and that leads to port poorer health outcomes. You know, there's also the intergenerational transfer of low literacy that can happen because if parents have difficulty reading, then many of them are ashamed to read to their children and they can't help them with homework.

[Kimberly Adams]

And what sorts of strategies actually work to fix this issue.

[Kent Redding]

Yeah, so there are adult education programs and it really helps their self esteem first of all, because they realize, wow, I'm not the only one and I, if I come and I attend, I will be able to really increase my skills. And I'm with a whole bunch of people who really care about me. One of the problems though is that these programs now only access about 10% of adults who really need these programs. And part of the problem is that there aren't enough programs. Some people don't know how to access them. A lot of people don't even know that they exist.

[Kimberly Adams]

Daphne Greenberg is director of the Adult Literacy Research center at Georgia State University. Thank you so much.

[Kent Redding]

Thank you. Bye bye.

[Kimberly Adams]

Coming up, there's very little wood utilized into commercial and institutional buildings, at least for now. But first, let's do the numbers. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 418 points 1% to finish at 42,573. The NASDAQ subtracted 235 points 1 and 2. 10% to close at 19,486. And the S&P 500 lost 63 points 1 and 1, 10% to end at 59.06. As we recall the memory of the late former President Jimmy Carter, Carter pushed for the creation of the Department of Energy when he took office in 1977. U.S. imports of crude oil reached what was at the time a peak, a little over 2.1.4 billion barrels, according to the Energy Information Administration. Just a bit more than we imported in 2023. But by 1981, the year Carter left office, that number had fallen by about a third, to just over 1.6 billion barrels. Imports didn't climb back to that 1977 level until 1993. Increased demand in today's world for LNG for export is one reason why natural gas futures heated up 15% today. The other reason? Forecasts of a cold January bonds rose, the Yield on the 10 year T note fell to 4.53%. And you are listening to Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

This economy can be complicated. That's why the Marketplace newsletter makes understanding it all simple. Get smart takes on the week's biggest stories delivered to your inbox every Friday. No jargon, no hype, just economics you can use. Sign up [e-mail] subscribe hi, I'm Kai Rysdal, the host of How We Survive. This season is all about the institution that shaped me, the US Military, and how it could shape the future of climate tech. You've probably heard that 2024 was the hottest year on record, that wildfires devastated Los Angeles and that the US Withdrew from the Paris Agreement. And while all that might feel pretty terrible, the climate crisis is not an inevitable reality. From simulated climate emergencies to micro grids and sustainable aviation fuel, we look at how the military is investing part of its 850 billion dollar budget in a greener more resilient future. Listen to how we survive. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kimberly Adams]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kimberly Adams. Many of us have to get creative to make our finances work in this economy, and one budgeting method is taking off on social media right now that combines nostalgia, Instagram worthy aesthetics and a desire to get better at managing your money. Oregon Public Broadcasting's Lillian Carebake explores the trend of cash stuffing.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Cash stuffing is a modern twist on how your grandmother might have balanced her books, the Envelope System Cash stuffers post videos of perfectly manicured nails delicately organizing their bills, almost like an unboxing video for their paycheck.

[Kimberly Adams]

Today we are going to be doing a cash stuffing of my December paycheck. I'm going to do an ASMR cash.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Stuffing 12535400 that last clip is Lily Cohen, a 25 year old who does administrative work in Bangor, Maine. She started making cash stuffing videos in 2021 on her YouTube channel Lily Budgets. Now Cohen has over a million views from strangers watching her separate her paycheck into a pink wallet binder.

[Kimberly Adams]

She is thick this month.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

We have a lot of ones in here.

[Shahriar Bahari]

I'm sure her viewers are often people her own age who are also trying to build good financial habits. She finds the public accountability helpful, but the actual cash is cumbersome.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Oh yeah, I drive to the bank multiple times a week and I've made very good friends with the tellers.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Cohen's paycheck comes via direct deposit, but then she drives to the bank and pulls it out in cash. She asks the teller for exact denominations for each budget category, like housing, gas and Fun. And like a pro content creator, she asked for the most fetching Franklin's. The bank has the prettier bills kind.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Of draw the attention of the viewers. It's nice to look at clean, crisp new bills versus the dirty old ones.

[Shahriar Bahari]

The videos have sort of a spa like vibe even when Cohen is just counting coins.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

If the money is in cash locked up in a safe at my house, I cannot spend it.

[Shahriar Bahari]

And it's true, consumers spend less with cash than plastic. Studies show it's actually more painful to part with cash than it is to pay with a card because you actually fork over your hard earned money. That's Ted Rossman, senior industry analyst at Bankrate, and he says this might be a way to get a handle on rising debt. Credit card balances are up 51% from the beginning of 2021. That's part inflation and high interest rates, but consumers are just swiping more often, especially Gen Z. Gen Zers have substantially more credit card debt than millennials did at the same age, and they're also more likely to be using credit. But cash stuffers think the tangible nature helps them save. When you hold onto something, you cherish it more, and so you're less likely to kind of let it go. That's called the endowment effect, says John Roark, a professor of economics at Reed College. He says there's a downside, though. I know that's going to sound silly, but if you lose your pretty envelope, there's no recourse. Roark says he doesn't think there are any academic papers about whether making budgeting pretty makes a difference to financial outcomes, but that might be due to lack of study. After all, the people who'd be doing the research are economists, right?

[Kimberly Adams]

And we are not the people who are into aesthetics.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Cohen isn't just into it for the aesthetics though. She invests her money after she stuffs it in her Roth IRA envelope on her YouTube channel. Then she drives back to the bank, deposits the cash and transfers it to her brokerage account. But she doesn't mind the legwork.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

I love the process of opening it up, of stuffing the money in, of counting it, and having those pretty things can just make it more enjoyable experience.

[Shahriar Bahari]

And Cohen says she would keep doing it even if she didn't post online In Portland, Oregon, I'm Lillian Kaerbake for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

We started the show talking about housing and how there just isn't enough of it in this country. Well, one solution is building more multi family structures and some builders are trying to be a bit more climate friendly while doing it. Now typically when you want to build say a high rise, you need really durable materials like iron, steel, cement and concrete that also come with a high carbon footprint. But thanks to some new technology and new rules, builders are finding modern uses for a traditional and more climate friendly wood harvest. Public Media's Kate Grumpke has more.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

On the northern edge of downtown Milwaukee, one high rise is not like the others. The building is called the Ascent and it's made of wood. Cross laminated timber to be exact.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Also called CLT, it is 19 stories.

[Kimberly Adams]

Of mass timber over a six story concrete parking structure.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

That's architect Jason Corp. The Ascent is currently the world's tallest building that's a hybrid of timber and concrete. Fifteen years ago it would have been hard to find a wood building that was more than four or five stories tall. But this building stretches up 25 floors thanks to Extra Strong CLT. It's made by layering and gluing lumber in a crossing pattern to form massive strong beams. Corp. Takes the elevator up to show off a model apartment.

[Shahriar Bahari]

14Th floor.

[Kai Rysdal]

These are carrying less weight the higher up you go.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Inside, the ceiling is made of warm, exposed timber that connects to thick wooden support beams framing a stunning view of Lake Michigan. Originally, Korb says the building's developers considered cross laminated timber as an aesthetic choice.

[Kimberly Adams]

But the more you dive into it, the more you learn about its other benefits.

[Kai Rysdal]

The largest one is the level of.

[Kimberly Adams]

Carbon sequestration in the timber.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Trees take carbon out of the atmosphere. When you cut down a tree to turn it into cross laminated timber, you're storing a lot of carbon into a building for a long time, says John E. Fernandez, a professor of architecture at mit.

[Shahriar Bahari]

When you look at a tree, the fact is that about half of the.

[Kimberly Adams]

Dry weight of that tree is carbon.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

The Ascent's designers estimate the building offsets 7,200 metric tons of carbon dioxide. They say that's the equivalent of taking 2,400 cars off the road for a year. CLT doesn't just lock carbon into a building. It also avoids emissions from steel and cement. Together, those two materials produce almost 15% of planet warming greenhouse gas emissions worldwide. But Fernandez says there's a caveat. The forest the wood comes from needs to be sustainably managed for all of this to work out. Right now, CLT is still a relatively rare building material in the US it's really early days. Bill Parsons is the chief operating officer at Woodworks Wood Products Council, which is a nonprofit funded by the forestry industry. Parsons says changes in the international building code in the last few years opened the door for high rises made of clt. And there's some momentum around it. Walmart's new home office in Arkansas includes mass timber, and Microsoft announced it's building two new data centers with clt. But even though there's this long history of using wood in single family homes, it hasn't caught on for bigger buildings.

[Shahriar Bahari]

There's very little wood utilized into commercial and institutional buildings.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Parsons says there are 15 tall CLT projects either built or under construction around the US and more are in the works. A lot in St Louis's Downtown west neighborhood doesn't look like much right now. It's gated off and covered in gravel. But it will soon have a mass timber high rise that's a bit taller than the one in Milwaukee. Kyle Howerton is a principal at AHM Group, the developer behind this project. He says City officials were shocked when they first heard about it.

[Kimberly Adams]

They didn't realize that you could build.

[Shahriar Bahari]

Something over 300ft tall using wood.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Now Howerton wants this building to inspire similar projects in St. Louis and beyond.

[Kimberly Adams]

I hope that this is a catalyst.

[Shahriar Bahari]

For more structures being built using the same technologies.

[Lillian Kaerbake]

Howerton plans to break ground on the climate friendly high rise next year in St. Louis. I'm Kate Grumpke for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

This final note on the way out today. As you've heard by now, President Jimmy Carter passed away yesterday, and among his many legacies is an economic one. His presidency coincided with the last period of really high inflation in this country, leading him to what was at the time a controversial pick to lead the Paul Volcker. This came up in an interview President Carter did with Kai rysdal back in 2010. Here's a bit of that.

[Kai Rysdal]

On the topic of Paul Volcker, if I could just back up for a second. Yeah, please. You put him in the job. You in essence made this deal with him where he would do what he had to do and you would suffer the political consequences, according to your telling of it. And yet it seems to me that he is most remembered and the president he is most associated with is Ronald Reagan for breaking the back of inflation. Does that gall you at all? Not gall me, but I recognize that. Does it bug you a little bit? Well, you know, I was the one that suffered politically and Ronald Reagan was the one that benefited from the Paul Volcker economic philosophy. But I don't begrudge the fact that it happened during the next term. I thought the next term was going to be mine.

[Kimberly Adams]

President Carter was 100 years old. The New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ will be closed for trading on January 9th for the national day of mourning for the nation's 39th president. Our daily production team includes Andy Corbin, Nicholas Guillaume, Maria Hollenhorst, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry and Sophia Terenzio. I'm Kimberly Adams. We'll be back tomorrow. This is APM.