Maybe next year

Summary

Marketplace Episode Summary: "Maybe Next Year" Release Date: December 14, 2024

In this comprehensive episode of Marketplace, host Kyle Rizsdal delves into a variety of pressing economic and business topics, providing listeners with in-depth analysis and expert insights. The discussion spans inflation trends, Federal Reserve policies, US-China technological relations, the housing market outlook, corporate diversity initiatives, geothermal energy advancements, healthcare challenges in Native American communities, and the revival of the Mississippi oyster industry.

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Inflation and the Federal Reserve's Policy Path

[00:35 - 05:25]

Kyle Rizsdal opens the episode by addressing the recent Consumer Price Index (CPI) report, which showed a 2.7% increase—higher than anticipated. This has stirred concerns about the Federal Reserve's future actions regarding interest rates.

Amara Mokwe from Bloomberg explains the Fed's cautious approach:

"It's going to be bumpy. ... The consumer price index came out... a string of recent inflation reports that have been kind of sticky... what do they signal about the pace of rate cuts going forward?" (01:31)

Ana Swanson of The New York Times adds:

"The Fed had forecast for rate cuts... maybe we'll see three rather than four... they think the economy is looking fairly strong." (02:35)

The conversation highlights the uncertainty surrounding whether the Fed will continue to cut rates or potentially raise them if inflation remains persistent. Mokwe emphasizes the importance of monitoring the Fed's communications and projections to gauge future policy directions.

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US-China Technological Relations and Economic Implications

[05:25 - 07:09]

Turning to international relations, Rizsdal discusses the intricate balance between the US and China as major trading partners and military rivals. Ana Swanson highlights the tension over technology transfers, particularly in the semiconductor industry.

"China is at the same time our biggest military rival, but it's also a major trading partner. So where do you draw the line?" (05:52)

Swanson points out recent actions by China, such as banning rare earth exports to the US and investigating American chipmakers, which add layers of uncertainty to the economic landscape.

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Housing Market Outlook for 2025

[07:09 - 10:14]

The episode shifts focus to the American housing market, where Mitchell Hartman reports on the National Association of Realtors' (NAR) optimistic forecast for 2025. Despite high mortgage rates peaking above 7%, there are signs of stabilization.

Nadia Evangelou, Senior Economist at NAR, states:

"Home prices are up about 4% in 2025, with a projected 2% increase... buyers will benefit from more homes on the market." (08:44)

However, Guy Sakala from Inside Mortgage Finance expresses skepticism:

"Tariffs are likely to push inflation and interest rates higher... high mortgage rates and home prices will remain a barrier for folks trying to buy, especially for the first time." (09:15)

The discussion underscores the delicate balance between mortgage affordability and housing supply, with economic policies potentially influencing future market conditions.

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Corporate Diversity Initiatives and Regulatory Challenges

[10:14 - 12:28]

Kyle Rizsdal explores the recent legal setbacks faced by Nasdaq's proposed diversity rule, which aimed to enhance board diversity in listed companies. A federal appeals court in Louisiana deemed the rule illegal.

Devin Watkins from the Competitive Enterprise Institute criticizes the SEC's overreach:

"The SEC had overstepped its authority... it's discriminatory and amounts to public shaming of companies." (11:15)

Stephanie Creary from the Wharton School counters:

"Verdicts like this aren't a win for DEI opponents... companies are finding opportunities to be more strategic and creative." (11:47)

The segment highlights the ongoing debate over mandated diversity standards versus voluntary corporate initiatives, emphasizing the resilience of companies committed to diversity despite regulatory hurdles.

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Advancements in Geothermal Energy Through Fracking Technology

[14:38 - 16:58]

Kailey Wells discusses a groundbreaking report from the International Energy Agency (IEA) on the potential of geothermal energy. The report suggests that geothermal resources could meet the combined electricity demands of India and the United States.

"It's adapting the technology from shale oil drilling to use it in geothermal." (15:21)

Brent Warner from the IEA notes:

"Reaching geothermal heat is becoming more affordable in more places... we've been able to do that in shorter times and for lower costs." (15:54)

Despite environmental concerns related to deep drilling, geothermal energy offers a stable and carbon-free alternative to wind and solar power. The primary challenges lie in regulatory approvals and securing investment for widespread adoption.

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Healthcare Challenges in Native American Communities

[16:58 - 21:41]

The episode sheds light on systemic issues within the Indian Health Service (IHS), where delays and administrative errors have led to unjust medical debt for Native American patients.

Katherine Houghton from KFF Health News shares the story of Tasha Holly:

"Holly discovered that the bills from her son's birth had been sent to collections in her name only. She never received late notices." (17:52)

Nadia Evangelou explains the broader impact:

"Patients are twice as likely to have medical debt in collections as compared to the national average." (17:57)

The discussion highlights the financial and emotional toll on tribal communities, advocating for improved processes and accountability within the IHS to prevent future injustices.

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Revival of the Mississippi Oyster Industry

[21:41 - 25:58]

Mitchell Hartman reports on the slow resurgence of Mississippi's oyster industry, which has struggled due to environmental disasters like Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill.

Elan Ireland visits Henderson Point reefs, now open for limited harvesting after five years of prohibition. Jessica Pruitt, a postdoctoral researcher, credits restoration efforts for the gradual return of oyster populations.

"There are adult oysters producing larvae that are settling on the reef... that's hopefully." (24:11)

Rick Burris from the Mississippi Department of Marine Resources emphasizes sustainable practices:

"Limiting this year's oyster harvest will protect the reefs from overfishing... it gives a little shot in the arm to some of our fishermen." (24:24)

The segment illustrates the intersection of environmental stewardship and economic revival, highlighting community efforts to restore a vital natural resource.

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Quick Market Updates and Industry Shifts

[25:58 - 27:07]

In the closing segments, Rizsdal provides a snapshot of the current market landscape, noting stock movements and industry trends. Notably, Michelob Ultra has surpassed Bud Light as the top draft beer in this economy, signaling changing consumer preferences.

Additionally, brief mentions include:

• Dow Industrials down by 0.10%
• Nasdaq up by 0.23%
• S&P 500 flat at 0.10%
• Companies like Dr. Horton, Pulte Group Inc., and KB Home experiencing stock declines.

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Conclusion

This episode of Marketplace offers a multifaceted exploration of economic indicators, international relations, market forecasts, corporate policies, and environmental initiatives. By featuring expert opinions and real-world stories, it provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the factors shaping the economic landscape in late 2024.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections have been omitted to focus on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

[Kai Ryssdal]

This Marketplace podcast is supported by Glassdoor, announcing the best places to work in 2025, as determined by anonymous reviews from the people who Know Best real employees. Did your company make the list this year? Learn who's leading the way in workplace culture and employee satisfaction and see who's hiring today. Then join the conversation in the Glassdoor community to plot your next career move and make the most of your work Life. [e-mail] 5 days, 6 minutes.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

What happened in this economy this week and why it matters. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rizal. It is Friday today. This one is the 13th of December. Good as always to have you live, everybody. Inflation and interest rates are where we are going to start. Where we go after that is anybody's guess. Ana Swanson is at the New York Times. Amara Mokwe is at Bloomberg. Hey, you two. Amara, let me start with you. We will start with inflation. The consumer price index came out, I guess it was Wednesday a couple of days ago anyway, 2.7%. The headline number higher than people had been hoping and or expecting is this, do you suppose what the Federal Reserve means when they say it's going to be bumpy?

[Amara Mokwe]

Yeah, precisely. Yeah, it's going to be bumpy. And yeah, people said that report was kind of disappointing. And it was a string of recent report, recent inflation reports that have been kind of sticky, like causing a little bit of concern here. And so I think investors think that it's a lock that the Fed will cut another 25 basis points at the meeting coming up this coming week. But then the question becomes what do they signal about the pace of rate cuts going forward? Because if inflation is continuing to be bumpy and concerns about the labor market have eased up a little bit from where we were sort of late summer, then what does the Fed do? How is the Fed going to interpret that? And do they really need to be cutting at consecutive meetings if that's what the scenario looks like now?

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Well, Ana Swanson, I think it's very interesting that everybody's just kind of assuming that even if they cut and then hold, that cuts are going to continue. It's not out of the question that if inflation stays sticky and ticks up a little bit, they might raise rates.

[Ana Swanson]

I don't know. I mean, you know, the Fed had forecast for rate cuts, you know, a full percentage cut next year, and now some people are tweaking that down. Maybe we'll see three. But, you know, I think you're, you're right. You know the economic data. Inflation has been trending downward and recently it's been bumpy, sticky, whatever you want to call it. It's bottomed out, but it's not totally out of the picture that we could see kind of a reversal in trends here. Right. And I think the Fed will just want to proceed extremely cautiously. There's no reason to rush things. They think right now the economy is looking fairly strong. There's some warning signs in there, but on the whole, pretty good. So just wait and see how that unfolds and if things are on the right path.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Amara, I need you to pay off something I said on the program yesterday for me. I told people to get ready for the phrase hawkish cut. Define if you would, please.

[Amara Mokwe]

Right. So this is the idea that if the Fed does go ahead and cut, they will somehow still find a way to communicate this idea that we've been talking about, that the pace of cuts could or will slow going forward. And the place where most people think that sort of hawkish tilts could show up is in the dot plot or essentially where officials kind of forecast how many rate cuts they see next year and in the, in the years to.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Come, which is literally represented in the form of dots on a graph, just to be clear.

[Amara Mokwe]

Of dots on a. Yeah, dots on a page. And so in September, the last time we got projections, as Ana was saying, they were projecting, you know, a full percentage point of cuts in 2025. And so Fed officials could deliver the hawkish cut by cutting and then saying, and then projecting that at the median, maybe we'll three or two or fewer cuts in 2025. And then people are also going to be listening to Chair Powell's press conference to see how he messages. Does he continue to kind of lean into this idea that they don't need to be in a hurry to cut rates, that it's okay if they are cautious as they try to find the neutral rate and as they cut rates going forward. So people are going to be listening to how, how much he leans and continues to lean into that message.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Right. Mar. Just to be clear, this, this is a case where watch not what the Fed does, because we were really sure they're going to cut. Watch what they say.

[Amara Mokwe]

Yeah, watch what they say and watch what the projections show, because again, we're going to get projections for the path of interest rates, but also economic growth, unemployment. If they're seeing, if they're painting a picture that things are fine and even maybe better than they, than they expected them to be in September Then that would also kind of signal that they don't need to rush to be cutting here.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Right. Ana, I want to turn to the future of this economy come the 20th of January. And some reporting you've been doing on technology and China and limitations that the United States government is trying to put on our technology transfers chips specifically and some of the pushback that American companies have been giving and then what we think the Trump administration is going to do about that, because obviously the most important economic relationship in the world really is US And China.

[Ana Swanson]

So, yeah, I did a piece this week looking into lobbying against the effort to kind of cut off technology flows to China. But I think it gets this really fascinating debate over China is at the same time our biggest military rival, but it's also a major trading partner. So where do you draw the line with that? Right. And you are seeing that relationship become a bit more tense. You saw in the last week China respond by banning rare earth exports to the United States, starting an investigation into this US Chip maker. So I think that's just kind of another question mark for the economy and for people to think about next year. I think stepping back to be a little more focused on the economy, there's also the possibility of deregulation and tax cuts and deportation and tariffs. So all of these big unknowns that are being thrown at the Fed and at others as they're trying to predict the path of the economy next year.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Ana Swanson at the New York Times and Amara Mokwe at Bloomberg on a Friday afternoon in middle of December. Thanks, you two.

[Ana Swanson]

Thank you.

[Nadia Evangelou]

Bye.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Have a nice weekend. Wall street today, technology was up. The rest of it, not so much. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. It is not going to surprise anybody within the sound of my voice when I say that 2024 has not been a banner year for the American housing market. Mortgage rates topped 7% for a while back in the spring. You remember that a 30 year fixed is at 6.7% today. Home prices keep going up. New home construction and sales thereof are well below where they were in the before time. Sales of existing homes are worse, but hey, maybe it'll be better in 2025. The National association of Realtors is out with its forecast and Marketplace's Mitchell Hartman has it.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It would be sad if the housing market got worse in 2025. Fortunately, says Nadia Evangelou, senior economist at the national association of Realtors, the market is gaining momentum. She says one promising sign is price moderation. This year, home prices are up about 4% in 2025 2% increase projected, a.

[Nadia Evangelou]

Significant slowdown compared to recent years, and.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Buyers will benefit from more homes on the market.

[Ana Swanson]

Inventory level is expected to improve as.

[Nadia Evangelou]

New construction picks up and more homeowners lease their properties.

[Mitchell Hartman]

That's based on the Realtors prediction that mortgage rates will fall to around 6% next year, but there's plenty of skepticism about that. Guy Sakala at Inside Mortgage Finance says plans announced by the incoming Trump administration are the main Tariffs and mass deportations.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Don'T bode particularly well for housing nor the mortgage market.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Tariffs are likely to push inflation and interest rates. Higher deportations could SAP the labor supply for new home building, pushing up costs. Sakala says there'll be plenty of empty nesters finally ready to sell, but high mortgage rates and home prices will remain a barrier for folks trying to buy, especially for the first time.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Home price appreciation has been off the.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Charts for the last few years, and.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Though wage growth has been strong, it.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Hasn'T been nearly strong enough to keep up. I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Some companies in this economy are working hard on their diversity initiatives on their own. Other companies have to have it regulated upon them, and that latter group got a win. This week, a federal appeals court in Louisiana set a proposed diversity rule from Nasdaq. Yes, that Nasdaq was illegal, Marketplace's Kimberly Adams explains.

[Kimberly Adams]

The SEC originally greenlit Nasdaq's proposal with the goal of boosting diversity on the boards of the almost 3,000 companies on the exchange. Scott Yonker at Cornell explained the rule would have required that every listed firm.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

On the Nasdaq have at least one person who identifies as female and another that identifies as either non white or as a LGBTQ person or disclose to.

[Kimberly Adams]

Investors why they don't. Opponents argued the rule was discriminatory and amounted to a public shaming of companies, and that the SEC had overstepped its authority. Devin Watkins is with the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

[Katherine Houghton]

The SEC has recently been trying to.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Use its powers to force companies to.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Provide more information than companies normally provide to investors.

[Kimberly Adams]

Watkins anticipates that this will be the first of many such provisions to be overturned in the courts. But companies are finding quieter ways to accomplish their diversity goals, says Stephanie Creary, who teaches management at the Wharton School. She says verdicts like this aren't as much of a win for DEI opponents as they might think.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

They're creating opportunities for companies to be even more strategic and even more creative.

[Ana Swanson]

Around solving these issues and creating opportunities around dei, creary says.

[Kimberly Adams]

The companies that really want to foster more diversity will find a way. In Washington, I'm Kimberly Adams for Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Coming up, it's sort of Twilight Zone ish at this point.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

No, man, I don't do scary. First, though, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials down 86 points today 2. 10% 43,828. The Nasdaq increased 23 points, a 10% 19,926. The S&P 500 flat 6,004. For the five days gone by, the Dow subtracted 1.8%. The Nasdaq gained 3. 10%. The S&P 500 down 6. 10 of 1%. Homebuilder Dr. Horton slumped 9. 10% today after being downgraded by JP Morgan. Pulte Group Inc. Shed 1 and 9. 10% today. KB Home sank 2.9%. Warner Brothers Discovery dropped 3.4% today after a big spike on Wall street yesterday. It announced plans to restructure one division for streaming and another for studios. Restructures and mergers, by the way, are a thing in entertainment right now. Comcast down 8.10percent a new poll from Reuters and Ipsos shows some tariff skepticism out there. Less than a third of respondents indicated it's a good idea for the US to charge higher tariffs on imported goods, even if prices increase. And 17% said tariffs would be good for them. Personally, I would like to meet those people. You're listening to Marketplace. Hey, it's Kai. My minivan and I, as I've said on the radio, have logged a lot of miles with Marketplace. Luckily it's still running, you know, pretty well. But if your car doesn't drive as well as it used to, listen up. It can still help drive Marketplace. When you donate your old car or truck, we'll use the proceeds to support the great programs you hear every day. Start your vehicle [e-mail] vehicle this is Marketplace. I'm Kai Ryssdal. You have heard, I'm sure, about geothermal energy, right? Widely celebrated as a clean alternative to fossil fuels. You've also heard, I'm sure, of fracking, which is not always thought of that same way the first draws energy from the earth's heat. The second became popular in the natural gas revolution of the 2010s when we figured out we could get energy from drilling into shale deposits. Turns out, though, that energy, just like politics, makes for strange bedfellows. A new report from the International Energy association says there is enough untapped geothermal energy out there to satisfy the electricity demands of India and the United states combined. And it's hydraulic drilling, also known as fracking, that could help find it, Marketplace's Kailey Wells explains.

[Kai Ryssdal]

This method is essentially fracking, but instead of capturing gas to burn, it's capturing heat to turn into electricity.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

It's simply adapting the technology from shale oil drilling to use it in geothermal.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Roland Horn is a professor of energy science and engineering at Stanford University. He says there's increasing interest in using fracking equipment to do this.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

It's just sort of a new way of doing what is actually a rather old idea.

[Kai Ryssdal]

The reason it's gaining traction now is because reaching geothermal heat is becoming more affordable in more places, says Brent Warner at the International Energy Agency, which released the new analysis.

[Kimberly Adams]

The oil and gas industry has been.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Going deeper and deeper, and they've been.

[Ana Swanson]

Able to do that in shorter times and for lower costs, he says.

[Kai Ryssdal]

The concerns about deep drilling, like causing earthquakes and disrupting habitats, still hold here. But geothermal energy that's extracted doesn't get burned and release carbon. It also solves a problem that wind and solar can't, says Zainab McGavi, executive director of the thermal energy nonprofit called Heat. Where is that non intermittent energy supply? Geothermal has the potential to be that answer, magavi says. Now that the technology has advanced and we can afford to use it, the biggest challenge is adoption, including permits and investment commitments. I'm Kaylee Wells for Marketplace.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

The Indian Health Service, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, provides care and support to almost 3 million American Indians and Alaska Natives, partly through a network of hospitals and clinics. But no matter how it's structured, healthcare is complicated, the finances of it especially. And some patients who are forced to go outside that network of hospitals and clinics are getting stuck with medical bills that they don't actually owe. People in Native communities, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau says, are twice as likely to have medical debt in collections as compared to the national average. Katherine Houghton from KFF Health News looks at what that means in actual practice.

[Katherine Houghton]

About 20 years ago, Tasha Holly was hoping to buy her first home. She's a citizen of the Gros Vent Tribe in Montana, and she and her husband at the time had just had their first baby. But when she checked her credit, her plans stalled.

[Nadia Evangelou]

You had to pull your credit to see if you were even credit worthy to make a major purchase.

[Katherine Houghton]

Holly discovered that the bills from her son's birth thousands of dollars had been sent to collections in her name only. Holly says she never received late notices. And more importantly, she didn't actually owe that Money.

[Nadia Evangelou]

These outstanding debts were from Indian Health Service.

[Katherine Houghton]

For tribal citizens across the U.S. this is a big problem that many have to deal with. You see, when a local IHS hospital can't provide a service, tribal citizens can apply for a program called Purchased Referred Care. It's really common. In Holly's case, she couldn't give birth at the local hospital. It didn't offer labor and delivery. So she went to the next closest option. The idea is if a treatment isn't available through the Indian Health Service, tribal citizens get that care elsewhere and the government picks up the tab. But that's not how it always works. Sometimes IHS is late to pay.

[Mitchell Hartman]

When IHS does not pay the bill, that private provider usually seeks payment directly from the patient.

[Katherine Houghton]

That's Wyoming Representative Harriet Hageman speaking at a congressional hearing earlier this year. In an email, a spokesperson said the Indian Health Service is working on this. It's training staffers to better help patients who get billed. And it's reminding hospitals not to charge patients who are approved for the program in the first place. And Congress is considering its own fixes. Frank White Clay, chairman of the Crow Tribe in Montana, says he sees the consequences for his community.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Some of the most vulnerable people are.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Being harassed daily by debt collectors.

[Mitchell Hartman]

We have veterans that have applied for VA home loans that were denied because of the debt collections attached to the program.

[Katherine Houghton]

The blame here is not always on the government. IHS officials say sometimes hospitals do get paid but still ask patients for more. Or the person handling the bills just doesn't know the rules because the program is so complicated. For patients like Holly, the process feels like an administrative black hole.

[Nadia Evangelou]

It feels so hopeless.

[Katherine Houghton]

Back when she was trying to buy a home, Holly thought her only option was to pay off the medical debt.

[Nadia Evangelou]

It took me a long time. I was taking monthly payments into the credit bureau.

[Katherine Houghton]

Even after that, the debt hurt her credit score for years. So when she was finally able to buy a house, she had to get a loan with a higher interest rate. And these days she's still navigating the referral program. She's a cancer survivor and routinely needs specialty care off her reservation. This year alone, she's gotten two notices from clinics about overdue bills.

[Nadia Evangelou]

You know how tedious that is, Trying to stay on track. Did they pay it? Keep calling. Did this get turned into the collection? Keep calling. How many days is this bill late?

[Katherine Houghton]

She's doing what she can to protect herself, like actually hand delivering bills to her local IHS office, making follow up calls. She even started a non profit that helps other tribal citizens figure out the system. Still, Holly wants the federal government to get better at this.

[Nadia Evangelou]

Not providing adequate health care based on our treaty because we gave up land in exchange for these services. Forced to give it up not willingly.

[Katherine Houghton]

To her, it's not just a healthcare problem, it's one that can cause financial consequences that last for years. I'm Kathryn Houghton.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Oysters may or may not be your thing. Acquired taste I think is fair, but they're an historically critical crop along the Mississippi Gulf coast, or at least they used to be because historically was doing a lot of work in that last sentence. Between Hurricane Katrina, the BP oil spill and a not small number of other disasters, the oyster industry on the Mississippi Gulf coast has seen better days. Harvesting of wild oysters from reefs in the Mississippi Sound has been prohibited since 2018. But this year those reefs will be open for two short harvests. Elan Ireland with the Mississippi River Basin Ag and water desk went for a boat ride.

[Elan Ireland]

Captain Richard Bosarch steers his 42 foot boat, the Royster, to the Henderson Point reefs near Pascrestienne. It's a small city 65 miles east of New Orleans on the Gulf of Mexico. Beausarge and his three man crew are going to harvest oysters. But this isn't like past seasons.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It's sort of twilight zone ish at this point because what used to be a hundred or more boats dredging is cut down to, believe it or not, two or three.

[Elan Ireland]

That's because oyster harvesting has not been allowed for five years in Mississippi. Fishermen used to collect over 2 million pounds of oysters per year here. But since the mid 2000s, the industry has cratered. Beausarge actually had to buy back oystering equipment he'd sold off when he heard the reefs would reopen.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It's been so long since we've done it and it's kind of like we want to see it with our own eyes because we never thought, thought we'd get to do this again on our reefs.

[Elan Ireland]

Mississippi oysters hit their breaking point in 2019 when Fresh river water released through a Louisiana spillway poured into Mississippi's coastal waters to prevent flooding. The influx lowered the salinity in the sound to a level at which oysters could not survive.

[Katherine Houghton]

There was very few oysters left after the 2019 openings in the sound.

[Elan Ireland]

Jessica Pruitt is a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Southern Mississippi. She studied the state's fluctuating oyster population and efforts to revive the species. Since Hurricane Katrina, Mississippi has spent $55 million to restore oyster reefs. They've added chunky limestone and other material in the sound where oyster larvae can attach and grow. Pruitt says some of those efforts seem to be paying off.

[Katherine Houghton]

There's adult oysters somewhere that are producing.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

Larvae that are settling on the reef. So that is hopefully.

[Elan Ireland]

Rick Burris is chief scientific officer at Mississippi's Department of Marine Resources. He says limiting this year's oyster harvest will protect the reefs from overfishing.

[Mitchell Hartman]

This won't do any damage to the population, but give a little shot in the arm to some of our fishermen and some of our processors, especially right before the holidays, you know, to be able to get some Mississippi oysters on the market.

[Elan Ireland]

Once Captain Beausarge's boat, the Royster, reaches the reef, he lowers an oyster dredge into the blue green water. It's a harvesting tool that looks like a hollow pyramid with a net attached to its base that scoops up oysters. When he pulls the dredge up, the Royster's crew empties it onto a table and oyster clusters spill out. They fill 10 burlap sacks with the best looking oysters and toss the rest overboard. Boissarge will end up selling the sacks directly to eager customers for $80 each. It's not much profit considering he has to pay his crew for the day's work and cover boat fuel and maintenance costs.

[Mitchell Hartman]

We're trying to make it work. We're trying to make it to where if we can retail them, everybody can make a decent pay.

[Elan Ireland]

He's brought a couple of sacks home too, and got to try his catch.

[Mitchell Hartman]

They're good and fat. They got good salt to them and they're quite delicious.

[Elan Ireland]

For right now, that's worth it. In Pas Christian, Mississippi, I'm Elan Ireland for Marketplace.

[Kyle Rizsdal]

This final note on the way out today, in which I learned there's a company whose business it is to keep track of what's flowing through more than a million draft beer taps in this economy. It's called draftline Technologies, and first of all, are they hiring? But also, and more to the point, I guess, than my employment prospects. The company says there has been a switch in the leaderboard, capping a run that's been years in the making. Michelob Ultra has displaced Bud Light as the number one beer on draft in this economy. Beer, of course, being used loosely to describe both of those two beverages. Don't me, people, just don't. Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargoli. Donna Tam is the executive editor. Neil Scarborough is the Vice President and General Manager and I'm Kai Rizdol. Have yourselves a great weekend everybody. We will be back on Monday. This is apm.

[Michael]

Hi, this is Michael from Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania. Marketplace is both enjoyable and extremely informative. Kai and the reporters go out to all kinds of people in the community and they ask straight ahead questions like how are you holding up these days? It's very personal and as we listen, we get a good sense of the challenges people face as they are trying to make it from day to day. I listen to the Marketplace podcast every day and have been doing so for a number of years. It's a breath of fresh air that helps me understand the economic world better. Join me by making a gift to marketplace at marketplace.org/donate.