Maybe next year

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Episode Summary: "Maybe Next Year" Release Date: December 14, 2024

In this episode of Marketplace, host Kai Ryssdal delves into a range of pressing economic and business topics, providing listeners with in-depth analysis and expert insights. Covering themes from inflation trends to the revival of the Mississippi oyster industry, the episode offers a comprehensive overview of the current economic landscape and its future implications.

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1. Economic Overview: Inflation and Interest Rates

Participants: Kai Ryssdal, Amara Mokway (Bloomberg), Anna Swanson (The New York Times)

The episode kicks off with a detailed discussion on the latest Consumer Price Index (CPI) report, which revealed a 2.7% increase—a figure higher than anticipated.

• Amara Mokway (02:07): "People said that report was kind of disappointing... investors think that it's a lock that the Fed will cut another 25 basis points at the meeting coming up this coming week."

Mokway explains the Federal Reserve's cautious stance, highlighting the potential for rate cuts and the uncertainty surrounding their future pace. Anna Swanson adds that while inflation has been downward-trending, its persistence may compel the Fed to reconsider rate adjustments.

• Anna Swanson (02:23): "The Fed will just want to proceed extremely cautiously... pretty good [economy], so just wait and see how that unfolds."

Kai introduces the concept of a "hawkish cut," prompting Mokway to clarify that it refers to the Fed potentially signaling a slower pace of rate cuts.

• Amara Mokway (03:48): "If inflation is continuing to be bumpy... do they really need to be cutting at consecutive meetings if that's what the scenario looks like now?"

The conversation underscores the Fed's delicate balance between curbing inflation and supporting economic growth, emphasizing the importance of forthcoming Fed communications and projections.

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2. US-China Tech Relations and Policy Implications

Participant: Anna Swanson

Shifting focus to international relations, Anna Swanson explores the intricate dynamics between the United States and China, especially concerning technology transfers and trade policies.

• Anna Swanson (05:57): "China is at the same time our biggest military rival, but it's also a major trading partner. So where do you draw the line with that?"

She highlights recent tensions, such as China's ban on rare earth exports to the U.S. and investigations into American chipmakers, which add uncertainty to the already complex economic relationship. Swanson points out that potential deregulation, tax cuts, and tariffs could significantly influence the economic forecast for the upcoming year.

• Anna Swanson (07:06): "These are big unknowns that are being thrown at the Fed and at others as they're trying to predict the path of the economy next year."

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3. Housing Market Forecast

Participant: Mitchell Hartman (National Association of Realtors)

The housing market takes center stage as the episode assesses its performance in 2024 and prospects for 2025.

• Kai Ryssdal (07:13): "It is not going to surprise anybody... 2024 has not been a banner year for the American housing market."

Despite high mortgage rates, home prices continue to rise, and new construction remains sluggish. Mitchell Hartman discusses optimistic projections from the National Association of Realtors, suggesting a potential slowdown in price increases and an improvement in housing inventory.

• Mitchell Hartman (08:26): "Price moderation... more homes on the market... inventory levels expected to improve as new construction picks up."

However, skepticism remains due to potential policy changes under the incoming Trump administration, including tariffs and deportations, which could dampen housing demand.

• Mitchell Hartman (09:01): "Tariffs are likely to push inflation and interest rates... higher mortgage rates and home prices will remain a barrier for folks trying to buy."

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4. Corporate Diversity Regulations and Court Rulings

Participants: Kimberly Adams (Marketplace), Stephanie Creary (Wharton School), Devin Watkins (Competitive Enterprise Institute)

The episode explores the legal challenges surrounding corporate diversity initiatives, specifically a federal appeals court ruling against Nasdaq's proposed diversity rule.

• Amara Mokway (10:18): "The SEC originally greenlit Nasdaq's proposal with the goal of boosting diversity on the boards of the almost 3,000 companies on the exchange."

Opponents argue that the rule was discriminatory and overstepped regulatory bounds. Devin Watkins anticipates further legal setbacks for similar diversity mandates.

• Devin Watkins (11:19): "The SEC has recently been trying to use its powers to force companies to provide more information than companies normally provide to investors."

Conversely, Stephanie Creary emphasizes that businesses committed to diversity will continue to pursue these goals independently of regulatory requirements.

• Stephanie Creary (11:57): "They're creating opportunities for companies to be even more strategic... solving these issues and creating opportunities around DEI."

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5. Geothermal Energy and Fracking

Participants: Kai Ryssdal, Kaylie Wells (Marketplace), Brandon Warner (International Energy Agency)

The discussion shifts to renewable energy, highlighting geothermal power's untapped potential and its synergy with hydraulic drilling technologies.

• Kai Ryssdal (16:20): "The first draws energy from the Earth's heat. The second became popular in the natural gas revolution... turns out that energy, just like politics, makes for strange bedfellows."

Kaylie Wells explains that adapting fracking techniques for geothermal energy extraction could significantly expand clean energy sources.

• Brent Warner (17:38): "Reaching geothermal heat is becoming more affordable in more places."

Despite environmental concerns, geothermal energy offers a non-intermittent power supply, addressing limitations inherent in wind and solar energy.

• Zainab Magavi (17:56): "Geothermal energy that's extracted doesn't get burned and release carbon... it's the non-intermittent energy supply."

The primary hurdles remain in adoption, permits, and investment.

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6. Indian Health Service Medical Debt Issues

Participant: Katherine Houghton (KFF Health News), Amara Mokway

A poignant segment highlights the financial struggles faced by Native American communities due to billing issues with the Indian Health Service (IHS).

• Amara Mokway (19:35): "People in Native communities are twice as likely to have medical debt in collections as compared to the national average."

The narrative follows Holly, a member of the Gros Vent Tribe, who encountered erroneous medical debts when seeking care outside the IHS network.

• Holly (19:49): "I never received late notices, and more importantly, I didn't actually owe that money." (19:52)

The root cause lies in delays by IHS in processing payments for referred care, forcing providers to bill patients erroneously. Efforts to rectify the system are underway, but systemic issues persist, leading to financial hardships and damaged credit scores for tribal citizens.

• Frank White Clay (21:19): "Some of the most vulnerable people are being harassed daily by debt collectors."

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7. Mississippi Oyster Industry Revival

Participants: Elon Ireland (Marketplace), Rick Buress (Mississippi Department of Marine Resources), Jessica Pruitt (University of Southern Mississippi)

The episode examines the precarious revival of Mississippi's oyster industry, which has struggled due to environmental disasters and regulatory bans.

• Elon Ireland (24:19): "It's sort of twilight zone-ish at this point because what used to be a hundred or more boats dredging is cut down to, believe it or not, two or three."

Following a devastating oil spill in 2019 that decimated oyster populations, restoration efforts have been ongoing. Recent reports indicate subtle improvements, with natural oyster larvae beginning to repopulate the reefs.

• Jessica Pruitt (25:34): "There's adult oysters somewhere that are producing larvae that are settling on the reef."

Chief Scientific Officer Rick Buress emphasizes the cautious approach to harvesting, aiming to support fishermen without jeopardizing reef recovery.

• Rick Buress (26:09): "This won't do any damage to the population, but give a little shot in the arm to some of our fishermen and some of our processors."

Despite low profits and high operational costs, local fishermen like Captain Bosarge remain committed to revitalizing the industry.

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8. Draft Beer Tap Rankings

Participant: Kai Ryssdal

In a lighter segment, Kai reports on a shift in beer popularity, with Michelob Ultra overtaking Bud Light as the top draft beer.

• Kai Ryssdal (27:55): "Michelob Ultra has displaced Bud Light as the number one beer on draft in this economy."

This change reflects evolving consumer preferences in the beverage industry.

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9. Final Notes and Additional Content

The episode concludes with brief updates on Wall Street performance, highlighting mixed results across major indices and specific company performances. Additionally, listeners are encouraged to explore related podcasts, such as Million Bazillion, which focuses on financial education for families.

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This Marketplace episode offers a multifaceted exploration of current economic challenges and opportunities, blending expert analysis with real-world stories to provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the factors shaping the near future.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

This podcast is supported by Fortune. Dedicated to empowering leaders to make intelligent business decisions and delivering unbiased reporting since 1929. Subscription options, email newsletters and more [e-mail].

[Amara Mokway]

This Marketplace podcast is supported by Odoo. Why waste time and money on disconnected management platforms when Odoo has everything any business will ever need in one simple, affordable, user friendly software? That's why it's time to switch to Odoo. Sign up [e-mail] five days, six minutes.

[Kai Rysdal]

What happened in this economy this week and why it matters. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Friday today. This one is the 13th of December. Good as always to have you along, everybody, buddy. Inflation and interest rates are where we are going to start. Where we go after that is anybody's guess. Anna Swanson is at the New York Times. Amara Mokway is at Bloomberg. Hey you two. Amara, let me start with you. We will start with inflation. The consumer price index came out, I guess it was Wednesday a couple of days ago anyway, 2.7%. The headline number higher than people had been hoping and or expecting is this, do you suppose what the Federal Reserve means when they say it's going to be bumpy?

[Amara Mokway]

Yeah, precisely. Yeah, it's going to be bumpy. And yeah, people, people said that report was kind of disappointing. And it was in a string of recent reports, recent inflation reports that have been kind of sticky, like causing a little bit of concern here. And so I think investors think that, you know, it's a lock that the Fed will cut another 25 basis points at the meeting coming up this, this coming week. But then the question becomes what do they signal about the pace of rate cuts going forward? Because if inflation is continuing to be bumpy and concerns about the labor market have eased up a little bit from where we were sort of late summer, then what does the Fed do? How is the Fed going to interpret that? And do they really need to be cutting at consecutive meetings if that's what the scenario looks like now?

[Kai Rysdal]

Well, on a Swanson, I think it's very interesting that everybody's just kind of assuming that even if they, you know, cut and then hold that cuts are going to continue. It's not out of the question that if inflation stays sticky and ticks up a little bit, they might raise rates.

[Anna Swanson]

I don't know. I mean, the Fed had forecast for rate cuts, a full percentage cut next year and now some people are tweaking that down. Maybe we'll See three. But I think you're right. The economic data, inflation has been trending downward and recently it's been bumpy, sticky, wet, whatever you want to call it, it's bottomed out, but it's not totally out of the picture that we could see kind of a reversal in trends here. Right. And I think the Fed will just want to proceed extremely cautiously. There's no reason to rush things. They think right now the economy is looking fairly strong. There's some warning signs in there, but on the whole, pretty good. So just wait and see how that unfolds and if things are the on the right path.

[Kai Rysdal]

Amara, I need you to pay off something I said on the program yesterday. For me, I told people to get ready for the phrase hawkish cut. Define if you would, please.

[Amara Mokway]

Right. So this is the idea that if the Fed does go ahead and cut, they will somehow still find a way to communicate this idea that we've been talking about, that the pace of cuts could or will slow going forward. And the place where most people think that sort of hawkish tilts could show up is in the dot plot or essentially where officials kind of forecast how many rate cuts they see next year and in the, in the years to.

[Kai Rysdal]

Come, which is literally represented in the form of dots on a graph, just to be clear.

[Amara Mokway]

Of dots on a. Yeah, dots on a page. And so in September, the last time we got projections, as Ana was saying, they were projecting, you know, a full percentage point of cuts in 2025. And so Fed officials could deliver the hawkish cut by cutting and then saying, and then projecting that at the median, maybe we'll get fed three or two or fewer cuts in 2025. And then people are also going to be listening to Chair Powell's press conference to see how he messages. Does he continue to kind of lean into this idea that they don't need to be in a hurry to cut rates, that it's okay if they are cautious as they try to find the neutral rate and as they cut rates going forward. So people are going to be listening to how, how much he leans and continues to lean into that message.

[Kai Rysdal]

Right. Mar. Just to be clear, this, this is a case where watch not what the Fed does because we're really sure they're going to cut. Watch what they say.

[Amara Mokway]

Yeah, watch what they say and watch what the projections show, because again, we're going to get projections for the path of interest rates, but also economic growth, unemployment. If they're seeing, if they're painting a picture that things are fine and even maybe better than they, than they expected them to be in September, then that would also kind of signal that they, they don't need to rush to be cutting here.

[Kai Rysdal]

Right. Ana, I want to turn to the future of this economy come the 20th of January. And some reporting you've been doing on technology and China and limitations that the United States government is trying to put on our technology transfers chips specifically and some of the pushback that American companies have been giving and then what we think the Trump administration is going to do about that, because obviously the most important economic relationship in the world really is US And China.

[Anna Swanson]

So yeah, I did a piece this week looking into lobbying against the effort to kind of cut off technology flows to China. But I think it gets to this really fascinating debate over China is at the same time our biggest military rival, but it's also a major trading partner. So where do you draw the line with that? Right. And you are seeing that relationship become a bit more tense. You saw in the last week China respond by banning rare earth exports to the United States, starting an investigation into this US Chipmaker. So I think that's just kind of another question mark for the economy and for people to think about next year. I mean, I think stepping back to be a little more focused on the economy, there's also the possibility of deregulation and tax cuts and deportation tariffs. All of these big unknowns that are being thrown at the Fed and at others as they're trying to predict the path of the economy next year.

[Kai Rysdal]

Anna Swanson at the New York Times and Amar Mokwe at Bloomberg on a Friday afternoon in middle of December. Thanks you two.

[Anna Swanson]

Thank you.

[Amara Mokway]

Bye.

[Kai Rysdal]

Have a nice weekend. Wall street today, technology was up. The rest of it, not so much. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. It is not going to surprise anybody within the sound of my voice when I say that 2024 has not been a banner year for the American housing market. Mortgage rates topped 7% for a while back in the spring. You remember that a 30 year fixed is at 6.7% today. Home prices keep going up. New home construction and sales thereof are well below where they were in the before time. Sales of existing homes are worse. But hey, maybe it'll be better in 2025. The National association of Realtors is out with its forecast and Marketplace's Mitchell Hartman has it.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It would be sad if the housing market got worse in 2025. Fortunately, says Nadia Evangelu, senior economist at the national association of Realtors, the market is gaining momentum. She says one promising sign is price moderation. This year, home prices are up about 4% in 2025, 2% increase projected, a.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Significant slowdown compared to recent years.

[Mitchell Hartman]

And buyers will benefit from more homes.

[Sponsor Announcer]

On the market, inventory levels expected to improve as new construction picks up and.

[Amara Mokway]

More homeowners lease their properties.

[Mitchell Hartman]

That's based on the Realtor's prediction that mortgage rates will fall to around 6% next year, but there's plenty of skepticism about that. Guy Sakala at Inside Mortgage Finance says plans announced by the incoming Trump administration are the main reason tariffs and mass deportations don't bode particularly well for housing.

[Kai Rysdal]

Nor the mortgage market.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Tariffs are likely to push inflation and interest rates. Higher deportations could SAP the labor supply for new home building, pushing up costs. Sacala says there will be plenty of empty nesters finally ready to sell, but high mortgage rates and home prices will remain a barrier for folks trying to buy, especially for the first time.

[Kai Rysdal]

Home price appreciation has been off the.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Charts for the last few years, and.

[Kai Rysdal]

Though wage growth has been strong, it.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Hasn'T been nearly strong enough to keep up. I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Some companies in this economy are working hard on their diversity initiatives on their own. Other companies have to have it regulated upon them. And that latter group got a win. This week, a federal appeals court in Louisiana said a proposed diversity rule from Nasdaq. Yes, that Nasdaq was illegal, Marketplace's Kimberly Adams explains.

[Amara Mokway]

The SEC originally greenlit Nasdaq's proposal with the goal of boosting diversity on the boards of the almost 3,000 companies on the exchange. Scott Yonker at Cornell explained the rule would have required that every listed firm.

[Kai Rysdal]

On the Nasdaq have at least one person who identifies as female and another.

[Sponsor Announcer]

That identifies as either non white or.

[Amara Mokway]

As a LGBTQ person or disclose to investors why they don't. Opponents argued the rule was discriminatory and amounted to a public shaming of companies, and that the SEC had overstepped its authority. Devin Watkins is with the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

[Sponsor Announcer]

The SEC has recently been trying to.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Use its powers to force companies to.

[Kai Rysdal]

Provide more information than companies normally provide to investors.

[Amara Mokway]

Watkins anticipates that this will be the first of many such provisions to be overturned in the courts. But companies are finding quieter ways to accomplish their diversity goals, says Stephanie Creary, who teaches management at the Wharton School. She says verdicts like this aren't as much of a win for DEI opponents as they might think.

[Sponsor Announcer]

They're creating opportunities for companies to be even more strategic and even more creative.

[Anna Swanson]

Around solving these issues and creating opportunities around dei.

[Amara Mokway]

Creary says the companies that really want to foster more diversity will find a way. In Washington, I'm Kimberly Adams for Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Coming up, it's sort of Twilight Zoneish at this point.

[Kai Rysdal]

No man, I don't do scary. First though, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials down 86 points today 2. 10% 43,828 the Nasdaq increased 23 points, a 10% 19,926. The S&P 500 flat 6,051. For the five days gone by, the Dow subtracted 1.8%. The Nasdaq gained 3. 10%. The S&P 500 down 6/10 of 1%. Homebuilder Dr. Horton slumped 9/10% today after being downgraded by JP Morgan. PulteGroup Inc. Shed 1 and 9. 10% today. KB Homes sank 2.9. Warner Brothers Discovery dropped 3.4% today after a big spike on Wall street yesterday, it announced plans to restructure one division for streaming and another for studios. Restructures and mergers, by the way, are a thing in entertainment right now. Comcast down 8/10% a new poll from Reuters and Ipsos shows some tariff skepticism out there. Less than a third of respondents indicated it's a good idea for the US to charge higher tariffs on imported goods even if prices increase. And 17% said tariffs would be good for them. Personally, I would like to meet those people. You're listening to Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

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[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Amara Mokway]

Marketplacepm this Marketplace podcast is supported by Odoo. Let's face it, nowadays most companies have to rely on dozens of expensive, disconnected platforms to run their business. And even then, things can get a little, well, stressful. But with Odoo's all in One management software packed with a suite of fully integrated business applications, every process is streamlined, tasks are automated, and success is just a few clicks away. See how Odoo can take your business to the next [e-mail] that's odoo.com this is Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

I'm Kai Rysdal. You have heard, I'm sure, about geothermal energy, right? Widely celebrated as a clean alternative to fossil fuels. You've also heard, I'm sure, of fracking, which is not always thought of that same way. The first draws energy from the Earth's heat. The second became popular in the natural gas revolution of the 2010s, when we figured out we could get energy from drilling into shale deposits. Turns out, though, that energy, just like politics, makes for strange bedfellows. A new report from the International Energy association says there is enough untapped geothermal energy out there to satisfy the electricity demands of India and the United States combined. And it's hydraulic drilling, also known as fracking, that could help find it. Marketplace's Kaylie Wells explains, this method is.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Essentially fracking, but instead of capturing gas to burn, it's capturing heat to turn into electricity.

[Kai Rysdal]

It's simply adapting the technology from shale oil drilling to use it in geothermal.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Roland Horn is a professor of energy science and engineering at Stanford University. He says there's increasing interest in using fracking equipment to do this.

[Kai Rysdal]

It's just sort of a new way of doing what is actually a rather old idea.

[Sponsor Announcer]

The reason it's gaining traction now is because reaching geothermal heat is becoming more affordable in more places, says Brent Warner at the International Energy Agency, which released the new analysis.

[Amara Mokway]

The oil and gas industry has been.

[Kai Rysdal]

Going deeper and deeper, and they've been able to do that in shorter times.

[Anna Swanson]

And for lower costs, he says.

[Sponsor Announcer]

The concerns about deep drilling, like causing earthquakes and disrupting habitats, still hold here. But geothermal energy that's extracted doesn't get burned and release carbon. It also solves a problem that wind and solar can't, says Zainab Magavi, executive director of the thermal energy nonprofit called Heat. Where is that non intermittent energy supply? Geothermal has the potential to be that answer, McGavi says. Now that the technology has advanced and we can afford to use it, the biggest challenge is adoption, including permits and investment commitments. I'm Kaylee Wells for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

The Indian Health Service, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, provides care and support to almost 3 million American Indians and Alaska Natives, partly through a network of hospitals and clinics. But no matter how it's structured, healthcare is complicated, the finances of it especially. And some patients who are forced to go outside that network of hospitals and clinics are getting stuck with medical bills that they don't actually owe. People in Native communities, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau says, are twice as likely to have medical debt in collections as compared to the national average. Katherine Houghton from KFF Health News looks at what that means in actual practice.

[Sponsor Announcer]

About 20 years ago, Tasha Hawley was hoping to buy her first home. She's a citizen of the Gros Vent Tribe in Montana, and she and her husband at the time had just had their first baby. But when she checked her credit, her plan stalled. You had to pull your credit to.

[Amara Mokway]

See if you were even credit worthy.

[Sponsor Announcer]

To make a major purchase. Holly discovered that the bills from her son's birth thousands of dollars had been sent to collections in her name only. Holly says she never received late notices, and more importantly, she didn't actually owe that money.

[Amara Mokway]

These outstanding debts were from Indian Health Service.

[Sponsor Announcer]

For tribal citizens across the U.S. this is a big problem that many have to deal with. You see, when a local IHS hospital can't provide a service, tribal citizens can apply for a program called Purchased Referred Care. It's really common. In Holly's case, she couldn't give birth at the local hospital. It didn't offer labor and delivery. So she went to the next closest option. The idea is if a treatment isn't available through the Indian Health Service, tribal citizens get that care elsewhere, and the government picks up the tab. But that's not how it always works. Sometimes IHS is late to pay.

[Mitchell Hartman]

When IHS does not pay the bill, that private provider usually seeks payment directly from the patient.

[Sponsor Announcer]

That's Wyoming Representative Harriet Hageman speaking at a congressional hearing earlier this year in an email, a spokesperson said the Indian Health Service is working on this. It's training staffers to better help patients who get billed and it's reminding hospitals not to charge patients who are approved for the program in the first place. And Congress is considering its own fixes. Frank White Clay, chairman of the Crow tribe in Montana, says he sees the consequences for his community.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Some of the most vulnerable people are.

[Amara Mokway]

Being harassed daily by debt collectors.

[Mitchell Hartman]

We have veterans that have applied for VA home loans that were denied because of the debt collections attached to the program.

[Sponsor Announcer]

The blame here is not always on the government. IHS officials say sometimes hospitals do get paid but still ask patients for more. Or the person handling the bills just doesn't know the rules because the program is so complicated. For patients like Holly, the process feels like an administrative black hole. It feels so hopeless. Back when she was trying to buy a home, Holly thought her only option was to pay off the medical debt.

[Amara Mokway]

It took me a long time. I was taking monthly payments into the credit bureau.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Even after that, the debt hurt her credit score for years. So when she was finally able to buy a house, she had to get a loan with a higher interest rate. And these days she's still navigating the referral program. She's a cancer survivor and routinely needs specialty care off her reservation. This year alone, she's gotten two notices from clinics about overdue bills.

[Amara Mokway]

You know how tedious that is.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Trying to stay on track. Did they pay it?

[Amara Mokway]

Keep calling.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Did this get turned into the collection?

[Amara Mokway]

Keep calling?

[Sponsor Announcer]

How many days is this bill late? She's doing what she can to protect herself, like actually hand delivering bills to her local IHS office, making follow up calls. She even started a nonprofit that helps other tribal citizens figure out the system. Still, Holly wants the federal government to get better at this.

[Amara Mokway]

That's providing adequate healthcare based on our treaty because we gave up land in.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Exchange for these services. Forced to give it up, not willingly. To her, it's not just a healthcare problem. It's one that can cause financial consequences that last for years. I'm Kathryn Houghton.

[Kai Rysdal]

Oysters may or may not be your thing. Acquired taste I think is fair. But they're an historically critical crop along the Mississippi Gulf coast. Or at least they used to be. Because historically it was doing a lot of work in that last sentence. Between Hurricane Katrina, the BP oil spill and a not small number of other disasters, the oyster industry on the Mississippi Gulf coast has seen better days. Harvesting of wild oysters from reefs in the Mississippi Sound has been prohibited since 2018. But this year, those reefs will be open for two short harvests. Elon, Ireland, with the Mississippi River Basin Ag and Water Desk went for a boat ride.

[Elon Ireland]

Captain Richard Bosart steers his 42 foot boat, the Royster, to the Henderson Point reefs near Paz Christian. It's a small city 65 miles east of New Orleans on the Gulf of Mexico. Bosarge and his three man crew are going to harvest oysters. But this isn't like past seasons.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It's sort of twilight zone ish at this point because what used to be a hundred or more boats dredging is cut down to, believe it or not, two or three.

[Elon Ireland]

That's because oyster harvesting has not been allowed for five years in Mississippi. Fishermen used to collect over 2 million pounds of oysters per year here. But since the mid 2000s, the industry has cratered. Bosage actually had to buy back oystering equipment he'd sold off when he heard the reefs would reopen.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It's been so long since we've done it, and it's kind of like we want to see it with our own eyes because we never thought we'd get to do this again on our reefs.

[Elon Ireland]

Mississippi oysters hit their breaking point in 2019 when Fresh river water released through a Louisiana spillway poured into Mississippi's coastal waters to prevent flooding. The influx lowered the salinity in the sound to a level at which oysters could not survive.

[Sponsor Announcer]

There was very few oysters left after the 2019 openings in the sound.

[Elon Ireland]

Jessica Pruitt is a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Southern Mississippi. She studied the state's fluctuating oyster population and efforts to revive the species. Since Hurricane Katrina, Mississippi has spent $55 million to restore oyster reefs. They've added chunky limestone and other material in the sound where oyster larvae can attach and grow. Pruitt says some of those efforts seem to be paying off.

[Sponsor Announcer]

There's adult oysters somewhere that are producing larvae that are settling on the reef.

[Elon Ireland]

So that is hopefully. Rick Buress is chief scientific officer at Mississippi's Department of Marine Resources. He says limiting this year's oyster harvest will protect the reefs from overfishing.

[Mitchell Hartman]

This won't do any damage to the population, but give a little shot in the arm to some of our fishermen and some of our processors, especially right before the holidays, you know, to be able to get some Mississippi oysters on the market.

[Elon Ireland]

Once Captain Bosarge's boat, the Royster, reaches the reef, he lowers an oyster dredge into the blue green water. It's a harvesting tool that looks like a hollow pyramid with a net attached to its base that scoops up oysters. When he pulls the dredge up, the Roysters crew empties it onto a table and oyster clusters spill out. They fill 10 burlap sacks with the best looking oysters and toss the rest overboard. Bossage will end up selling the sacks directly to eager customers for $80 each. It's not much profit considering he has to pay his crew for the day's work and cover boat fuel and maintenance costs.

[Mitchell Hartman]

We're trying to make it work. We're trying to make it to where if we can retail them, everybody can make a decent pay.

[Elon Ireland]

He's brought a couple of sacks home too, and got to try his catch.

[Mitchell Hartman]

They're good and fat, they got good salt to them and they're quite delicious.

[Elon Ireland]

For right now, that's worth it. In Paso Christiane, Mississippi, I'm Elon Ireland for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

This final note on the way out today in which I learned there's a company whose business it is to keep track of what's flowing through more than a million draft beer taps in this economy. It's called Draft Line Technologies and first of all, are they hiring? But also, and more to the point, I guess, than my employment prospects, the company says there has been a switch in the leaderboard, capping a run that's been years in the making. Michelob Ultra has displaced Bud Light as the number one beer on draft in this economy. Beer, of course, being used loosely to describe both of those two beverages. Don't me people, just don't. Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargalli, Donna Tam is the Executive editor, Neal Scarborough is the Vice president and General manager and I'm Kai Rysdal. Have yourselves a great weekend everybody. We will be back on Monday. This is 8:00pm Money, money, money. Kids always have questions about it and maybe you do too. That's why Million Bazillion, the Webby winning podcast from Marketplace, is here to answer.

[Mitchell Hartman]

The auction awkward and sometimes surprising questions.

[Kai Rysdal]

Your kids have about money. We explain concepts like savings accounts, retirement, and the differences between brand names and non brand names. Million Bazillion is the place for you and your kids to learn about money. Together we help dollars make more sense.

[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Kai Rysdal]

Listen to Million Bazillion wherever you get your podcasts.