Remember tariff exclusions?

Summary

Marketplace: Remember Tariff Exclusions?
Hosted by Kai Ryssdal
Released on March 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Marketplace, host Kai Ryssdal delves into the murky waters of tariff exclusions amidst ongoing economic uncertainties. With insights from economists, business owners, and market analysts, the episode navigates the complexities of trade policies, labor market shifts, and the evolving role of technology in retail. The discussion is enriched with firsthand accounts and expert opinions, making it an invaluable resource for listeners seeking to understand the current economic landscape.

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Labor Market and Economic Data

Kai Ryssdal opens the discussion by highlighting recent labor market indicators. The January Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey (JOLTS) from the Labor Department revealed a nearly 9% decrease in job openings compared to the previous year, signaling a cooling labor market. Additionally, the February Small Business Optimism Index from the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) indicated that many small businesses continue to struggle with filling open positions.

Kai Ryssdal [01:02]: "Job openings have fallen almost 9% since the same period a year ago. It's a sign that the labor market is slowing a bit, of course."

These data points underscore the broader economic uncertainty affecting both employers and employees.

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Corporate Earnings and Market Impact

The episode transitions to corporate earnings, focusing on Kohl's and its bleak outlook. Kohl's projected a 5-7% decline in revenue for the year, surpassing Wall Street’s pessimistic expectations. This cautionary forecast is mirrored by other companies like Delta Air Lines and Dick's Sporting Goods, each issuing gloomy projections that have adversely affected their stock prices.

Heather Whaling [05:57]: "Projections are the hardest thing to get right in finance. As a broad rule of thumb, if a company's earnings come in lower than what either the company or Wall street analysts expected, the stock price goes down."

Economist Zachary Waring from CFRA emphasizes skepticism towards corporate guidance, highlighting the inherent challenges in financial projections.

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Discussion on Stagflation with Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the concept of stagflation—a troubling combination of high inflation and stagnant economic growth. Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan, an economist from Brown University, clarifies that while the current economy does not exhibit stagflation, the conversation is spurred by heightened uncertainty due to recent trade policies.

Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan [09:17]: "It is basically higher prices and higher unemployment. Recession has a double whammy. The economy is slow, people are unemployed. At the same time, prices are high."

She attributes the potential for future stagflation to extreme uncertainty created by fluctuating trade policies, particularly tariffs imposed by the Trump administration. Ozkan argues that this uncertainty dampens consumer demand and business investment, potentially leading to a recession.

Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan [10:15]: "The Fed's role here is to look at what happens to expectations, to inflation expectations... if the Fed, Jay Powell, sees those expectations are elevated... then obviously they are going to increase the interest rates."

Ozkan stresses that reducing policy uncertainty is crucial to preventing a downturn, highlighting the Federal Reserve's challenging position in balancing inflation control with economic growth.

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AI in Retail: Home Depot and Lowe's Generative AI Assistance

Shifting gears, the episode explores the integration of Generative AI in retail, specifically by Home Depot and Lowe's. Both companies have launched AI assistants—Magic Apron for Home Depot and Milo for Lowe's—to enhance the consumer shopping experience.

Megan McCarty Carino [13:56]: "Lowe's Milo AI suggested I might need mulch to suppress new weeds once I've sprayed and after some coaxing it calculated how many bags I'd need to buy."

These AI tools aim to simulate in-store assistance by providing product recommendations, summarizing reviews, and offering practical advice for home improvement projects. While promising, experts like Anastasia Ghosh, a marketing professor at the University of Arizona, caution about the risks of AI hallucinations and errors.

Anastasia Ghosh [15:02]: "But the more personalized and creative these chatbots get, the bigger the risk. Generative AI is still prone to hallucination and other errors."

Despite these challenges, retailers view AI assistants as valuable for gathering consumer data and refining customer interactions.

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Stock Market Updates

Kai Ryssdal provides a snapshot of the stock market's performance amidst the economic uncertainties. Major indices such as the Dow Industrials, NASDAQ, and S&P 500 experienced declines, influenced by negative corporate forecasts from companies like Kohl's and Delta Air Lines.

Kai Ryssdal [16:17]: "The downside outlook from Kohl's... drove shares in the retailer down more than 24%. Dick's Sporting Goods deducted 5.7%."

However, there was a silver lining in the airline sector as Southwest Airlines saw an 8.3% increase following the announcement of changes to its baggage policy.

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Tariff Exclusions: Past and Present

A central theme of the episode is the tariff exclusion process, drawing parallels between the current situation and the trade policies during President Trump's administration. Randy George, co-owner of Red Hen Baking Company, and Randy George from Husco discuss the challenges businesses face in navigating tariff exclusions.

Randy George [22:50]: "Austin Ramirez at Husco... reduced its imports from China by about 80%, though none of those supply chains shifted."

The discussion highlights the opacity and randomness of the exclusion process under Trump's administration, where factors like political contributions influenced approval rates.

Randy George [21:13]: "Hasija says... businesses that made campaign contributions to the Republican Party were more likely to be granted exclusions."

With the Trump administration yet to announce a formal exclusion process for the current tariffs, businesses are left in a state of uncertainty, potentially leading to reduced investments and operational disruptions.

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Closing Remarks: Tariffs as Tax Cuts

In a final commentary, Marketplace critiques the White House's misleading portrayal of tariffs. A Press Secretary was quoted saying,

Megan McCarty Carino [27:05]: "Tariffs are a tax cut for the American people."

Kai Ryssdal counters this assertion by reaffirming the true nature of tariffs:

Kai Ryssdal [27:08]: "Tariffs are a tax on the American people."

He underscores the program's commitment to factual accuracy, emphasizing that facts matter in economic discourse.

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Conclusion

The episode "Remember Tariff Exclusions?" offers a comprehensive exploration of the intertwined issues of labor market dynamics, corporate financial strategies, technological advancements in retail, and the intricate dance of trade policies. Through expert analysis and real-world business experiences, Marketplace provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current economic challenges and anticipates potential future developments.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kai Ryssdal [01:02]: "Job openings have fallen almost 9% since the same period a year ago. It's a sign that the labor market is slowing a bit, of course."

• Heather Whaling [05:57]: "Projections are the hardest thing to get right in finance... you can under promise and over deliver."

• Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan [09:17]: "It is basically higher prices and higher unemployment. Recession has a double whammy."

• Megan McCarty Carino [13:56]: "Lowe's Milo AI suggested I might need mulch to suppress new weeds."

• Kai Ryssdal [27:08]: "Tariffs are a tax on the American people."

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This structured and detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions of the episode, providing a clear and engaging overview for those who have not listened to the full broadcast.

Transcript

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[Kai Rysdal]

On the program today. Making economic sense out of all that uncertainty. From American public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Tuesday today, the 11th of March. Good as always to have you along everybody. It is a hard and fast rule of this program that while the economic headlines matter and should have attention paid to them, what's really important is what people are feeling in their day to day. People and businesses too. So I'll give you the headlines. Then Justin Ho's gonna come on and tell you what they mean. We got a couple of data points about the American labor market this morning. The January job openings and labor turnover survey jolts of course, from the Labor Department and the February Small business Optimism index for from the National Federation of Independent Business. The NFIB says a lot of small businesses are still having trouble filling their open positions. So there's that. But the Jolts report showed job openings have fallen almost 9% since the same period a year ago. It's a sign that the labor market is slowing a bit, of course. And then you add the general layer of uncertainty in this economy right now. Well, here's Justin.

[Ken Gidden]

Throughout last year, sales were strong at Rothman's, a men's clothing store in New York. Co president Ken Gidden says he went into this year feeling optimistic and he was planning to hire for two new positions.

[Heather Whaling]

And then the last week or so has definitely made us think about it a little bit.

[Ken Gidden]

Giddens says Rothmans imports a lot of the clothing it sells, so he's concerned that the Trump administration's new tariffs will make that clothing more expensive. And then there's all the stock market gyrations in recent days, which he says can put his customers on edge.

[Heather Whaling]

You know, we sell clothing, which is not something that is necessary. And if you're not feeling good about your portfolio or worried about what's going on in the big picture, that can sometimes make you slow down.

[Ken Gidden]

As a result, Gideon says he's putting those two new hires on hold.

[Heather Whaling]

Sometimes you gotta raise that caution flag just to take a little breath and see what's going on.

[Ken Gidden]

Meanwhile, in Ohio, Heather Whaling, who runs a marketing company called Gebben Communication, is seeing that kind of caution among some of the clients she works with.

[Randy George]

In the nonprofit space, there's caution in the education space, certainly in construction and real estate development.

[Ken Gidden]

Whaling says it's affecting her hiring decisions. She's already brought on three people this year, and she's planning on hiring more, but that depends on how her clients are feeling.

[Randy George]

We even are in a situation right now where we have a person that I am 98% ready to make a job offer, too, but I need to see how a couple more contracts shake out on my end before making that commitment.

[Ken Gidden]

On the plus side, Whaling says she's having an easier time finding new hires. Same with Randy George, co owner of Red Hen Baking Company in Vermont.

[Kai Rysdal]

It's been years, really, since we've put.

[Cybersecurity Expert]

Out ads and fairly quickly heard from really great applicants.

[Ken Gidden]

George says the bakery is in the middle of moving to a new building that's almost twice as big as his current location. He says his business will be affected by tariffs on Canadian flour, for example, and whatever happens to the economy, he says it wouldn't surprise me if we.

[Kai Rysdal]

See a downturn in our business in the next four years.

[Ken Gidden]

But we also look beyond that when the business expands. George hopes to staff up, starting with two or three new employees. Justin I'm Justin Ho for Marketplace Wall street today.

[Kai Rysdal]

Well, not as bad as yesterday, let's just say that, huh? We'll have the details when we do the number. Kohl's, the department store chain, reported earnings this morning, including, as most companies do, its outlook for the year ahead. Not so great, it turns out. The company predicts revenue is going to decline between 5 and 7% compared to last year, way worse than what Wall street was expecting. And Kohl's joins a growing list of companies making less than rosy guesses about what the future holds. In just the past couple of days, Delta Air Lines and Dick's Sporting Goods have each issued gloomy forecasts. As Marketplace's Matt Levin reports, that kind of corporate guidance is all about setting expectations.

[Heather Whaling]

Zachary Waring takes these corporate guidances with a grain of salt. He works for the investment research firm cfra. Actually a little more than a grain. Yeah, I'd say it's probably more like a tablespoon or maybe even a cup. Projections are the hardest thing to get right in finance. As a broad rule of thumb, if a company's earnings come in lower than what either the company or Wall street analysts expected, the stock price goes down. If they beat expectations, the price goes up. So why set high expectations when you can under promise and over deliver? You definitely see companies underestimate. They give a range typically, and you'll almost never see them miss the bottom of that range. Legally, corporations actually don't have to publish these types of forecasts. David Vollent is at Indiana University's Kelley School of Business.

[Kai Rysdal]

What we've seen is a lot of firms moving away from issuing these, these estimates.

[Heather Whaling]

But that doesn't mean they don't have any value, especially since firms have more up to date data than say, what the government puts out.

[Kai Rysdal]

The way that the macro environment is impacting the internal projections, that's already happening. So they can observe internally, you know, contracts, canceled sales, increases in growth.

[Heather Whaling]

So what then to make of so many different companies being such Debbie Downers about the future? Sean Dunlap at Morningstar says it's partly a hedge against all the uncertainty involving tariffs and doge and the world, but it could also be a sign of a broader downturn that's already begun.

[Justin Ho]

While consumer spending held up really well in 2024, it's starting to look like there are cracks in the armor and a lot of companies are revising their guidance accordingly.

[Heather Whaling]

Here's hoping those corporate guidances are wrong again. I'm Matt Levin for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Here's a little guidance for you if you miss something on the actual radio and we get it, it happens. Life is busy. We've got a podcast, Marketplace.org is where you can get that. Or obviously just follow us on the platform of your choice.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

SA.

[Kai Rysdal]

We'Ll get the February consumer Price index tomorrow, inflation at the retail level. But there is something else burbling around out there that we're going to spend a couple of minutes on. Stagflation, high inflation and stagnant economic growth. To be clear, we are not, repeat, not seeing this right now, the unemployment rate is still historically low and inflation, while elevated, is, is down significantly from its pandemic highs. But better to know, we think, what the future might hold. No? So we got Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan on the phone. She's an economist teaching at Brown University. Welcome to the program.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

Thank you. How are you? Great to be here.

[Kai Rysdal]

I'm well, thank you. For those who might not have experienced it back in the 70s, what does stagflation feel like in an economy?

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

It is basically higher prices and higher unemployment. Recession have a double whammy. The economy is slow, people are unemployed. At the same time, prices are high.

[Kai Rysdal]

To say again, we are not in stagflation right now, that is an important point. But my question is, what has happened to get us to the point where we're having this conversation again?

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

Why we are having this conversation is what I call extreme uncertainty created by a series of policies of the new administration. We all know that tariff is, because it's a tax, it's going to lead to higher prices. But we didn't know there's going to be so much uncertainty about it, like, you know, back and forth, back and forth. That creates a lot of uncertainty about economic outlook in the future, which means now consumers are going to cut down their demand, investors are going to cut down their investment, and that's the recession part of the stagflation.

[Kai Rysdal]

What do we do about it? I mean, if, if you're Jay Powell listening to this interview, I don't know if he's going to listen, but, but what do you tell the head of the Fed to do?

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

The Fed's role here is look at what happens to expectations, to inflation expectations, because the, the future plans of businesses and consumers is going to be reflected in that inflation expectations. And if the Fed, Jay Powell, sees those expectations are elevated. But at the same time, the data, which is of course always about the past, where the data comes also that inflation is not going down, now we are having a sticky inflation, then obviously they are going to increase the interest rates.

[Kai Rysdal]

Seems to me, though, based on what you've said about uncertainty in the policies of the Trump administration, that a lot of the solution would be not having so much uncertainty.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

That's right. That would be the solution. So that solutions are better than actually the Fed solution. Because if the Fed uncertainty really keeps feeding into these lower demand and lower investment plans and consumption plans, and that's also what we are seeing in the stock market meltdown yesterday and today, then it is going to be a very difficult job for Fed because Fed also they don't want a recession. So if the recession now wins over inflation, that means they need to cut the rates. If you have both here or stagflation scenario, stagflation is a very, very hard scenario for a central banker. And the solution here is really not the Fed, but it is not having these type of uncertain policies coming from.

[Kai Rysdal]

The administration with the understanding that things in an economy, to paraphrase here, happen very slowly and then all at once. We're talking about stagflation now and again we are not there, but it could, it could be here. What's a better way to ask this question? How long do you suppose it'll take.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

In terms of when are we going to see the recession and the higher prices? That's going to take time because remember, for higher price, actual higher price, actual higher inflation to be observed, the tariffs has to be in effect. Tariffs are not in effect yet. It is just like all this talk creating this uncertainty. So if tariffs never really happen, but then because now this uncertainty fed into so much the future plans of consumers and businesses, we might really end up with a recession.

[Kai Rysdal]

Shibnem Kalimli Ozgan at Brown University professor, thank you so much.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

Thank you very much.

[Kai Rysdal]

Never mind whether artificial intelligence is going to take your job. The good news is AI can now help you with your next home improvement project, although you will still have to provide the elbow grease. Home Depot and Lowe's both launched Generative AI Assistance this week. Magic Apron at Home Depot for all those shop aprons they wear and Milo for Lowe's. Nomenclature aside, they can give you product recommendations, summarize reviews and maybe offer some how to advice. They are just the latest retailers. Those two are looking to soup up their consumer experience with an AI bot. Marketplace's Megan McCarty Carino drills down on that one.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

I'm actually not in the market for a drill at the moment, but I do need a lot of help with weeds after our winter rains.

[Kai Rysdal]

You might be looking at weed killer.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

Sounds like Home Depot's president of online, Jordan Broge, says their AI assistant is meant to simulate the in store experience.

[Kai Rysdal]

You might have a set of basic questions. How much do I need? Is this going to kill the weeds that I have in my lawn and is it going to harm my grass? How do I apply it? Whatever it may be, this is intended to help answer those questions in real time.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

Lowe's Milo AI suggested I might need mulch to suppress new weeds once I've sprayed and after some coaxing it calculated how many bags I'd need to buy.

[Heather Whaling]

I think they're really promising because they have a step by step.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

Greg Zakowicz, a strategist at E commerce marketing platform Omnisend, says AI assistants are on almost every website now, though many don't seem to have a clear function.

[Kai Rysdal]

I think we're just at an early.

[Heather Whaling]

Stage where the companies put them on, figure out what works, what doesn't, then refine them.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

For retailers, these tools provide a valuable new stream of consumer data to analyze, says Anastasia Ghosh, a marketing professor at the University of Arizona.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

Like what is the first question a person asks when they buy a washing machine?

[Megan McCarty Carino]

But the more personalized and creative these chatbots get, the bigger the risk. Generative AI is still prone to hallucination and other errors.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

So if I buy something, let's say.

[Kai Rysdal]

A piece of furniture and I assemble.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

It myself, or I go on a DIY weed killing mission, but if I.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

Followed your instructions and I don't like it now, that's your fault.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

Home Depot's Jordan Broge says the advice is clearly labeled as AI generated.

[Kai Rysdal]

I think customers are in the process of getting more familiar with using tools like this and knowing that they can be extremely helpful even if they're not 100% accurate.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

Sort of like weedkiller. I'm Megan McCarty Carino for Marketplace.

[Justin Ho]

Coming up, they can't tell us if they'll have the chocolate we'll need in six months.

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah, now that's a crisis. First, though, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials off 478 points today, 1.1% 41,433. The NASDAQ subtracted 32 points. 2. 10% closed at 17,436. The S&P 500 down 42 points. About the record quarters percent, 55 and 72 they bounced off the lows is the phrase you're looking for. That bad outlook from Kohl's and Matt Levin was telling us about that drove shares in the retailer down more than 24%. Some of the other gloomy gusses he mentioned Dick's Sporting Goods deducted 5.7%. Delta Airlines dipped seven and a quarter percent. American Airlines projected a bigger than expected first quarter loss, descended eight and a third percent. As a result. United Airlines got caught in the downdraft too. It dropped 2%. There was, though, a ray of light in the airline sector. Southwest Airlines announced that bags fly free is no longer an operative slogan. Some customers will now have to pay to check luggage. Southwest flew 8 and a third percent higher today. Bond prices fell. The yield on the 10 year T note rose to 4.28% and you are listening to Marketplace.

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[Kai Rysdal]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. At the risk of repeating myself, tariff and trade policy in this economy right now is unclear at best. On again, off again, back and forth. You've heard all the descriptions. So too have business owners who, as they wait for clarity, are exploring their options. We heard yesterday from Sam Desai. He's the VP of a metals distributor in New Jersey who back in 2018 had had filed for exemptions from the steel and aluminum tariffs in President Trump's first term. Among the many things we don't know about the tariff process this time around is whether there is going to be a formal exemption process. But if there is, and if it looks anything like it did back then, it might be a little bit messy. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab looks back at the tariff exclusion process in the trade war last time.

[Randy George]

When Austin Ramirez learned there was a way to potentially get out of being taxed on imports during the Trump administration's first trade war with China, he knew he had to apply.

[Cybersecurity Expert]

There are a subset of our products that we just don't have North American alternatives for.

[Randy George]

Ramirez's company is called Husco and is headquartered in Waukesha, Wisconsin. It makes hydraulic and electromechanical components for cars and construction and agricultural equipment. About half the parts he needs to manufacture these goods are imported from abroad, parts like iron castings.

[Cybersecurity Expert]

So these are molten metal that's poured into a mold. You know, it solidifies and ultimately it's machined into a final product. It's a fairly labor intensive, you know, not hugely environmentally friendly process. So a lot of those foundries have moved overseas.

[Randy George]

This was the main argument Ramirez's lawyers used in tariff exclusion applications back in 2018 that there was no way to source these castings in the US they had to outline reasoning in pages of applications for dozens of items, a process that took months. The outcome?

[Cybersecurity Expert]

I'd say probably a third to half of our exclusions were approved.

[Randy George]

That's higher than the average 13% approval rate through early 2020 for tariff exclusions on Chinese imports, according to the Congressional Research Service. But Ramirez says the whole process was frustrating because it was opaque.

[Cybersecurity Expert]

We couldn't find any kind of rhyme or reason to why certain component categories were approved and why others were rejected.

[Randy George]

Dinesh Hasija at Augusta University researched exclusions data from the 2018 tariffs on steel and aluminum imports.

[Kai Rysdal]

There was a lot of randomness, randomness.

[Randy George]

Hasija says, because it was hard to find consistent reasons why applications were denied or approved. But there were some patterns. For instance, if your supplier was in a country that had a favorable relationship with the U.S. you were more likely to be granted an exclusion.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

So the country of affiliation matter.

[Randy George]

So did perhaps a company's political affiliations. A study in the Journal of Financial and Quantitative Analysis found businesses that made campaign contributions to the Republican Party were more more likely to be granted exclusions now. The Trump administration has not announced an exclusion process for tariffs this time around. Robert Friedman, who co leads the international trade practice at law firm Holland and Knight, has been getting calls from clients for months to explore all their options.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

This time around, we were seeing companies.

[Kai Rysdal]

Preparing far in advance of Trump's election.

[Randy George]

He's a bit skeptical there will be an exclusion process because of how wide reaching these tariffs are and and the kind of government staffing reviewing applications would require. But however messy the tariff exclusion process was, or may be, it would at least give smaller business owners a way to be heard, Friedman says. No exclusion process would give more voice to bigger firms.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

The companies with greater political power have an easier time conveying their messages. But that, unfortunately, is not available to many businesses.

[Randy George]

Austin Ramirez at Husco, the hydraulics manufacturer, isn't so worried about Chinese tariffs. This time around, the company has reduced its imports from China by about 80%, though none of those supply chains shifted.

[Cybersecurity Expert]

To the U.S. we now source in Thailand and Malaysia and some to India and some to Europe.

[Randy George]

That won't save Ramirez if Trump puts global tariffs into place, something he's floated before.

[Cybersecurity Expert]

It is so volatile that, you know, I don't know that anybody knows what to do.

[Randy George]

He says he can't create a plan until the administration solidifies its own. I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Those who follow the corporate fortunes of Swiss chocolatiers closely of which, to be clear, I am not usually one might have seen this item the other day that Lindt, that's L I N dt, announced better than expected profits the other day in the face of historically high cocoa prices. Point number one, that's about the pricing power that Lindt has. But point number two and related is that not everybody can maintain their margins when input costs go up and sometimes go up a lot. So we called the chocolate retailer we know to ask about her chocolate plans for 2025. Kristen Thallheimer Bingham is the co owner of Dean's Sweets. It's in Portland, Maine.

[Justin Ho]

So cocoa prices, as a lot of people know, have been going up. In 2024, the price of chocolate we use went up four separate times. And this year, chocolate prices have already gone up again with an increase of 20% just in January. And then there's maybe an even harder aspect, which is the uncertainty about the supply chain. What we're hearing from our suppliers is that they aren't even sure when their inventory will be available. They can't tell us if they'll have the chocolate we'll need in six months. And they certainly can't tell us what the prices will be half a year from now. We plan ahead as best we can. So we purchased a lot of chocolate in late 2024 and early 2025, and that means at least we can predict that we'll have enough chocolate on hand through the summer. And then there are the tariffs on China. We aren't sure yet, but it looks very much like some of the packaging we need will be affected by that. But somehow, even with all the uncertainty, we're still working happily as ever. We were relieved and pleased to get through and have good Valentine's Day sales. Right now we're doing more and more corporate sales and custom chocolate for hotels. And now because Easter and Passover are a little later this year, we have some extra time. So we're still working away happily and getting ready with lots of little bunnies for Easter.

[Kai Rysdal]

Kristen Talheimer Bingham there, co owner of Dean's Suites. If you're in Portland, Maine, check them. This final note on the way out today, which takes us to a place this program doesn't usually the White House briefing room, where given the state of the markets and of the President's economic policies, Press Secretary Caroline Levitt was fielding a lot of questions about the state of the markets and the president's economic policies. Most of what she said was misleading at best, dissembling at worst. And then this lie.

[Megan McCarty Carino]

Tariffs are a tax cut for the American people.

[Kai Rysdal]

We started with one hard and fast rule of this program. We end with another. Facts matter. Tariffs are a tax on the American people. Our Digital and On Demand team includes Kerry Barber, Jordan Manji, Dylan Mietanen, Janet Wayne, Olga Oxman, Ellen Rolfus, Virginia K. Smith, and Tony Wagner. Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital and On Demand. And I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow, Everybody. This is APM.

[Shebnem Kalemli Ozkan]

Consumer confidence had its sharpest monthly decline since 2021, which means we're all in our feels about money. And while uncertainty is the only constant these days, it's also a great reason to get serious about understanding personal finance. I'm Janelie Espinal, host of Financially Inclined, a podcast from Marketplace that makes learning about money simple. Simple. Learn about practical skills like negotiating job offers, dealing with money and friendship and love, entrepreneurship and student loans. Get serious about your money and build a life you've always dreamed of. Listen to Financially Inclined wherever you get your podcasts.