Sorry, we can’t hear you through all the economic noise

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "Sorry, we Can’t Hear You Through All the Economic Noise"

Release Date: January 20, 2025
Host: Kai Ryssdal

In the January 20, 2025 episode of "Marketplace," host Kai Ryssdal delves into the tumultuous economic landscape unfolding on the first day of President Donald Trump's second term. The episode navigates through a spectrum of topics, including the anticipated economic policies of the new administration, the surge in global bond yields, the ripple effects of the Los Angeles wildfires on the housing market, and the evolving dynamics of the retail sector. Here's a detailed breakdown of the key discussions and insights from the episode.

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1. Setting the Economic Stage: Trump's Second Term

Timestamp: 00:51 – 05:51

Kai Ryssdal opens the episode by addressing the economic backdrop at the commencement of President Trump's second term. Joined by Sudeep Reddy from Politico, they assess the current state of the U.S. economy, which remains robust despite elevated prices.

Key Points:

• Economic Strength: Despite President Trump's promises to overhaul economic policies, the U.S. economy is characterized by low unemployment and record oil production. Reddy notes, “President Trump could come into office right now and start talking about how we have low unemployment, record oil production... and probably make people believe it” (02:32).

• Policy Promises vs. Reality: Trump’s pledges, such as “drill, baby, drill,” are scrutinized for their actual impact. Ryssdal points out the irony in drilling more despite the U.S. already leading global oil and gas production (02:32).

• Tariffs and Inflation Concerns: The discussion highlights potential economic disruptions from tariffs, including increased inflation and global currency ripples. Reddy warns, “Enacting tariffs across the board... will potentially raise inflation” (03:46).

Notable Quote:

“Every time we see one of these actions, it will raise the expectation that interest rates will have to stay higher to deal with a potential resurgence of inflation...” – Sudeep Reddy (04:08)

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2. Rising Global Bond Yields: A Sign of Changing Times

Timestamp: 05:51 – 10:35

The conversation shifts to the global bond market, where yields are on the rise worldwide, signaling broader economic shifts.

Key Points:

• Current Trends: Bond yields in the U.S. have increased from 3.6% to 4.63% on the 10-year treasury note. Similar trends are observed in Germany, the UK, and Japan (07:16).

• Investor Sentiment: Experts like Sonal Desai and Gargipal Choudhury from BlackRock explain that rising yields reflect investors' expectations of a stronger economy grappling with persistent inflation (08:00).

• Global Implications: Higher U.S. rates attract global capital, causing yields in other countries to rise as well. This interconnectedness amplifies the impact of U.S. economic policies on the global stage (09:27).

• End of Cheap Money: David Kraus from Marquette University underscores that the era of low interest rates is ending, making borrowing more expensive across all sectors (10:35).

Notable Quote:

“As long as those factors hold steady, the economy should be fine.” – George Perks (19:33)

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3. Los Angeles Wildfires: Housing Market Ripple Effects

Timestamp: 11:09 – 13:56

The episode transitions to a local focus on Los Angeles, where devastating wildfires have had significant repercussions on the housing market.

Key Points:

• Destruction and Displacement: The Eaton Fire has destroyed over 15,000 structures, displacing residents and reducing the supply of semi-affordable housing in areas like Altadena (12:08).

• Insurance Challenges: Moreno Valley realtor Comma Burton highlights the rising costs of homeowners insurance, which are becoming central to buyer-seller negotiations and potentially exacerbating housing affordability issues (12:40).

• Historical Context: Drawing parallels to the 2017 Bay Area fires, the segment illustrates how natural disasters can lead to increased demand for housing in safer, often more expensive, suburban areas (13:10).

Notable Quote:

“The sudden disappearance of semi affordable supply won't help buyers in nearby markets like Pasadena or Alhambra.” – Lexi Newman (12:06)

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4. The Retail Landscape: Apocalypse or Evolution?

Timestamp: 17:05 – 24:34

Kai Ryssdal explores the state of the retail industry, challenging the notion of a "retail apocalypse" by highlighting the resilience of discount retailers like TJ Maxx amidst broader industry struggles.

Key Points:

• Bankruptcy Surge: In 2024, approximately 50 retailers filed for bankruptcy, closing over 7,000 stores—a 70% increase from the previous year—according to coresight Research (20:11).

• Discount Retailers Thriving: Despite widespread retail closures, discount chains like TJ Maxx are prospering. Factors contributing to their success include constant inventory rotation and the ability to offer diverse products at affordable prices (21:01).

• Challenges for Traditional Retailers: Experts like Nicole D. Horatius from Columbia Business School argue that the integration of online and in-person sales demands significant resources, leaving smaller retailers at a disadvantage unless they can excel in either cost, speed, or quality (22:00).

• Retail Concentration: Over half of U.S. retail growth is dominated by giants like Walmart, Amazon, and Costco, making it challenging for smaller players to compete without substantial funding (23:12).

Notable Quote:

“If a smaller company wants to win, it has to focus.” – Erin Sherris, Bain & Company (23:10)

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5. Small Retailers Navigating the New Economy

Timestamp: 24:34 – 27:28

The episode features an interview with Kellen James, owner of Silhouette Sneakers and Art in Tulsa, Oklahoma, offering a micro perspective on the evolving retail landscape.

Key Points:

• Strategic Inventory Management: James emphasizes caution in inventory purchases while preparing for an anticipated surge in sneaker releases in 2025 (24:53).

• Community Engagement: Beyond sales, James focuses on integrating his business into the local community through events like bingo nights and pop-up shops, fostering a loyal customer base (26:00).

• Balancing Costs and Connections: He acknowledges the higher costs associated with brick-and-mortar operations but believes that building community ties offsets these challenges (26:30).

Notable Quote:

“It is more than just about what's on the walls and on the racks.” – Kellen James (26:30)

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6. Trade Policy Developments: A Global Perspective

Timestamp: 27:28 – 28:48

In a lighter yet insightful segment, Ryssdal touches upon trade policy changes, exemplified by Scotland's McSween adapting its haggis recipe to comply with U.S. regulations.

Key Points:

• Cultural Adaptation: McSween, Scotland’s largest haggis maker, is reformulating its product by replacing sheep’s lung with sheep’s heart to meet U.S. food standards, reopening the long-shunned U.S. market since 1971 (28:00).

• Trade Relations Impact: Such adjustments highlight the intricate balance businesses must maintain to comply with international trade regulations while preserving cultural heritage.

Notable Quote:

“Traditional haggis... is made with sheep's lung, the use of which is prohibited as a human food.” – Kai Ryssdal (27:28)

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7. Navigating Economic Noise: Distinguishing Data Amid Distractions

Timestamp: 17:52 – 20:11

Justin Ho examines how external "noise" factors—such as natural disasters, labor strikes, and political uncertainty—are complicating the interpretation of economic data.

Key Points:

• Impact of External Shocks: Events like hurricanes can temporarily skew economic indicators, making it challenging to discern underlying trends (18:03).

• Survey Data Bias: Tim Dewey from SGH Macro Advisors points out that survey responses on inflation expectations are often polarized by political affiliations, rendering them less reliable (18:26).

• Economic Resilience: Despite various shocks, experts like George Perks affirm that fundamental factors—solid labor markets, wage growth, and moderating inflation—are maintaining economic stability (19:39).

Notable Quote:

“A future strong economy with stubborn inflation residue means higher interest rates...” – Gershon Distenfeld, Alliance Bernstein (08:34)

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Conclusion

The episode of "Marketplace" presents a comprehensive analysis of the multifaceted economic challenges and opportunities emerging as President Trump embarks on his second term. From the intricate dynamics of global bond markets to the localized impacts of natural disasters on housing and the shifting tides in the retail sector, Ryssdal and his guests provide listeners with nuanced insights into navigating the "economic noise" of 2025. Whether addressing macroeconomic trends or highlighting individual business stories, the episode underscores the importance of adaptability and informed decision-making in a rapidly evolving economic landscape.

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For those interested in further exploring these topics, "Marketplace" continues to provide in-depth coverage and expert analysis on the intersection of business, economics, and everyday life.

Transcript

[Eduardo]

This podcast is supported by Fortune, dedicated to empowering leaders to make intelligent business.

[Sonal Desai]

Decisions and delivering unbiased reporting since 1929. Subscription options, email newsletters and more [e-mail] this Marketplace podcast is supported by Glassdoor.

[Eduardo]

Announcing the best places to work in.

[Sonal Desai]

2025 as determined by anonymous reviews from the people who know best real employees. Did your company make the list this year? Learn who's leading the way in workplace culture and employee satisfaction and see who's hiring today. Then join the conversation in the Glassdoor community to plot your next career move and make the most of your work Life. [e-mail].

[Kai Rysdal]

Well, here we go again. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Monday today, the 20th of January. Good as always to have you along, everybody. We have arrived at day one of the second Trump term. There are twists and turns aplenty ahead, to be sure, but we are going to take a couple of minutes here to set the economic stage for the next four years. Sudeep Reddit is at Politico. He also moonlights with us on Fridays every now and then. Hey, Sudeep.

[Sudeep Reddy]

Hey, Kai. Happy Monday, I think.

[Kai Rysdal]

Happy Monday, I think. So. Look, let's benchmark this here for a second. Despite what the president. I almost called him President Elect. Despite what the President said in his inaugural address today, the American economy is strong. Yes, prices are elevated, but by and large, this economy is the envy of the world.

[Sudeep Reddy]

Yeah, President Trump could come into office right now and start talking about how we have low unemployment, record oil production, lower boarding, border crossings than we had when he left office, a whole host of things. And just by being a better communicator than his predecessor was, he could take credit for all of this and probably make people believe it. It maybe reduce regulations a little bit across the board and just call it a day. In fact, he did a lot of that the first time around. Four years ago when he came into office, eight years ago when he came into office and people believed it. So really the question is how much he wants to, to just claim that everything is better because he's in place. How much does he really want to change?

[Kai Rysdal]

Speaking of claiming things, he says we're going to drill, baby, drill. Even though the United States produces more oil and gas now than any other country on the planet. He said he's going to set up a Department of External Revenue to collect tariff income, even though, as we all know, American consumers pay those tariffs. So there was, there was some disinformation in there.

[Sudeep Reddy]

There's, there's a lot that the President is going to say and as usual, we have to watch what he does, what he does on tariffs. He came right out this morning, his team did, and said, well, maybe we're not going to do these on day one. We'll see if he does them on day two when he's got access to his social media accounts and what, what that means. But enacting tariffs across the board, as he has said many times he would do in right when he takes office, will potentially raise inflation. It will cause, cause currency ripples around the world and that could blow back on us. If he wants to cut off workers coming in from, from other countries, then there's a possible shortage of workers and that could raise inflation at the low end. There are a lot of things that could happen if he actually carries through on his promises, and we don't know yet because we have not tried a lot of these things in quite a while.

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah. So put on your Jay Powell hat for me here for a second and talk to me about what the central bank does when a new administration's policies are inherently inflationary, whether it's limiting the lab supply or increasing the cost of goods. Jay Powell is looking at this going, man, I just got done with inflation and now you're doing this.

[Sudeep Reddy]

Every time we see one of these actions, it will raise the expectation that interest rates will have to stay higher to deal with a potential resurgence of inflation or the fact that inflation is not dropping quickly enough. And that will start a war, as it had before, between a rhetorical war between the President and the Fed chair and that could upset bond markets as well. There are a lot of different factors that go into what, what drives borrowing costs. And this is one of them. And it's, we've seen this before.

[Kai Rysdal]

Real quick, I had this conversation with Katherine on Friday, but I love your take. It seems to me that, you know, just a couple of presidents ago, they had a little leeway in, in, in how, how long they had to be in office before they were like, responsible for the economy. You know, it was like three months, six months. You know, presidents get too much credit, too much blame. Seems to me that hook for this economy, like now he can decide to.

[Sudeep Reddy]

Take it slow and, and gradually implement some of these policies. But if he wants to come in right now and do day one actions, then it becomes his because you can actually put a marker on when we have the data still, at least for now, to, to mark what the changes look like. And it will be very apparent if he does a lot of these things rapidly and, and disrupts the general flow of the economy and of business. But he could also do things that, that he could take it slow and do things gradually like that that some businesses want to see and, and maybe avoid some of the upset. So it's a choice and, and we're going to find out I think within days or weeks what that choice is.

[Kai Rysdal]

Sudeep Reddy at Politico on this Inauguration Day 2025. Sudeep, thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Thank you Kai, Talk to you soon. Wall street was off today for the Martin Luther King holiday. We will think of something to say though when we do the number. As I said, Both U.S. equity and bond traders had the day off today. But as of quitting time last Friday, the market for American government debt, I.e. treasury bills, bonds and notes, stood at roughly $28 trillion. As we've been telling you, bond yields have been rising for months now. In September, the Yield on the 10 year treasury note was 3.6% now, 4.63%. And those rising yields aren't just happening here. Germany, the UK and Japan too have on the whole seen bond yields going up. You know, the reason we talk about the bond market as much as we do is that it can offer hints of our economic future. So what do you suppose it means that yields are rising in so many places all at once? Marketplace Sabri Benishore is on it.

[Sonal Desai]

Whether they're treasuries in the US or gilts in the UK or bunds in Germany, bonds are literally loans to a government. Loans for a long time, loans for a short time.

[Eduardo]

You can buy 2 years, 5 years.

[Kai Rysdal]

10 years, 20 years, 30 year bonds.

[Sonal Desai]

Sonal Desai is chief Investment officer at Franklin Templeton Fixed Income. You can even lend the government money for a very short time.

[Eduardo]

Three month T bill, six month T bills.

[Sonal Desai]

The government of course pays you interest. So there's a payoff for owning one of these things. That's the yield. And over the past few months, the bond market, that is all the people and firms buying bonds out there, they have been walking away from longer term bonds because they've decided the yields were too low.

[Eduardo]

It's been a pretty significant move to higher yields.

[Sonal Desai]

Gargipal Choudhury is chief investment and portfolio strategist for the Americas at BlackRock. Investors have been demanding higher yields on a 10 year bond now because their vision of the economy for the next 10 years has changed.

[Eduardo]

So if you think back to the beginning of this year, all of the data, the totality of the data, whether it be on the labor market, the sentiment surveys, all of them have been pointing to a stronger U.S. economy.

[Sonal Desai]

A stronger U.S. economy still grappling with inflation.

[Eduardo]

Inflation is going to be higher than people had thought.

[Sonal Desai]

Gershon Distenfeld is director of income strategies at Alliance Bernstein. A future strong economy with stubborn inflation residue means higher interest rates, higher returns on something like a three month treasury down the road. But bond investors today are going to miss out on that rosy future if their money is locked up in a decade long loan to the government that isn't offering enough interest. That is one reason why the bond market has been insisting that long term yields go up. But all of this, this is the US and longer term bond yields have been going up all over the world.

[Kai Rysdal]

Again.

[Sonal Desai]

Gargipal Choudhary at blackrock There is not.

[Eduardo]

Just a US Story in higher rates, but this is Australia story and Italy story of France. The uk, Canada have seen higher rate rates.

[Sonal Desai]

Some of it is coincidence, she says, but some of it is not. Says Franklin Templeton Sonal Desai.

[Eduardo]

When US Rates go up, it tends to attract capital from the rest of the world. So you might see people exiting German bonds to put money into US Treasuries.

[Sonal Desai]

When people do that, the German bonds in a sense have to compete and their yields go up too. So that's part of what's going on. But another part of the global rise in bond yields is anxiety.

[Kai Rysdal]

It's also the uncertainty that the world's largest economy could change its trade policies rather radically in the spring.

[Sonal Desai]

David Kraus is professor emeritus of finance at Marquette University.

[Kai Rysdal]

If some of the threats of tariffs and major changes in trade policies come to fruition, some of the countries that are very reliant on trading with the US have increased risk.

[Sonal Desai]

If foreign bonds now look more risky, those yields go up. Kind of like how a bad credit score makes a mortgage more expensive. But as bond yields around the world have risen, Krause says there is a bigger picture here.

[Kai Rysdal]

The era of cheap money is coming to an end.

[Sonal Desai]

Bond yields filter out far into an economy. Higher yields make borrowing more expensive, not just for governments, but for companies, people buying homes. For many years we got used to low interest rates and Kraus says those days are gone. In New York, I'm Sabri Benishore for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

The weather forecast here in LA is most definitely not. That's what we want to hear. More wind, lots of it, it looks like, which the National Weather Service is calling a particularly dangerous situation. With gusts approaching 100 miles an hour up in the mountains and the foothills. The count to date for the Palisades and Eaton fires is more than 15,000 structures destroyed, a sizable chunk of which were people's homes, which is in turn having a ripple effect on the Los Angeles housing market and beyond. Here's Marketplace's Matt Levin.

[Eduardo]

Los Angeles Realtor Lexi Newman used to help a lot of home buyers find their foot in the LA housing market. In Altadena in East LA county, according to Zillow, the median home value there was over a million dollars, which by LA standards it was, you know, on the more affordable side of things here and also very lovely. And there was a burgeoning kind of scene of, you know, fantastic restaurants and.

[Sonal Desai]

Coffee shops and all kinds of things.

[Eduardo]

Altadena was ravaged by the Eaton fire. Neumann has five clients who lost their homes there while it's still early. Her gut says the sudden disappearance of semi affordable supply won't help buyers in nearby markets like Pasadena or Alhambra. We already had an inventory problem and an inventory shortage, so supply and demand is very possibly going to shift and have housing become more expensive than it already is. About 62 miles southeast of Altadena is Moreno Valley, an LA exurb far enough away from the fires to avoid any real damage. But local realtor Comma Burton expects to see some pretty immediate economic fallout. My biggest concern is the insurance because I believe that's where the ripple effect will come. Burton says homeowners insurance has become so expensive, it's already a focal point of buyer seller negotiations, just like closing costs. Sadly, we do have some precedent here for how we can expect the LA fires to impact other housing markets over time. After the 2017 wine country fires in the Bay Area, Sacramento Realtor Aaron Stumpf started getting calls from fire victims looking for more affordable options a good 100 miles away from where they used to live. Most of the people that I talked to wanted to be in suburbia where there was low fire risk. Definitely far away from any high or moderate fire hazard areas. Those low risk areas are increasingly tough to find now. I'm Matt Levin for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Coming up, 2025 is probably going to.

[Kellen James]

Be one of the craziest times for sneakers.

[Kai Rysdal]

So sneakers too, I guess. First, though, let's do the numbers. US Markets, as I said, were closed today in observance of the Martin Luther King Jr. Day holiday. President Trump, he said this morning, is going to declare a national energy emergency, giving him authority to increase US Energy production and potentially drill baby, drill as he said that despite the fact that the United States produces more oil and gas now than any country on the planet. Planet Brent crude down 1% today. 79. 94 barrel gold fell 6/10 of 1%. Over in Europe, Britain's Footsie stepped up 2/10 of 1%. The CAC Garant CAC 40 in Paris up 3. 10%. Germany's DAX advanced about 4/10 of 1%. The dollar fell today. Euro was $1.04 per the UK pound is worth about $1.23. You're listening to Marketplace.

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[Kai Rysdal]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. This is a light ish week for economic data. Just a couple of B list releases coming out the next couple of days. First time claims for unemployment benefits reports also on housing and consumers. But there is something else to be said about the data. A trend that we've noticed over the past couple of months that a lot of big economic reports a listers if you will have been affected not by the fundamentals of what's going on in this economy, but by noise. Whether it's big weather events like storms and hurricanes or labor strikes or optimism about the new administration's policies or concerns about said policies, Marketplace's Justin Ho looked into how all that's been affecting how we measure this economy and how economists have been wading through the muck.

[Sonal Desai]

The thing about noise, whether it's literal noise or the figurative kind, is that it can be distracting. Like if construction or home sales surge in the months after a natural disaster.

[Sudeep Reddy]

You would never take that as a.

[Eduardo]

Trend because you can't judge the economy just from that one rebound.

[Sonal Desai]

That's Jennifer Lee, senior economist with BMO Capital Markets. She says a really noisy factor lately has been the prospect of new tariffs because while some businesses have been loading up on inventory, for example, it could.

[Sudeep Reddy]

Be reflecting businesses expectations of tariffs.

[Eduardo]

It may not be a reflection of consumer demand.

[Sonal Desai]

Another factor muddying the economic picture recently is survey data of consumers, manufacturers and small businesses. Tim Dewey, chief US Economist at SGH Macro Advisors, says people's answers are heavily influenced by their political preferences. The Democratic respondents see a larger increase of inflation going forward and the Republican respondents see inflation just disappearing. Dewey says that's not useful information because people's opinions don't tend to reflect what they actually do.

[Sudeep Reddy]

You know, people might be saying that.

[Kai Rysdal]

They think that confidence is down, but.

[Sonal Desai]

If it doesn't change their spending behavior.

[Eduardo]

Then their feelings are really not that important.

[Sonal Desai]

Economists can always ignore certain sets of data or average it out over several months. George Perks, macro strategist at Bespoke Investment Group, says after the recent hurricanes in the south, he looked at how unemployment claims and home construction in affected states deviated from similar states.

[Eduardo]

So then we can sort of take.

[Sudeep Reddy]

Into account how big this shock looks like it was and whether that will.

[Eduardo]

Have a major impact on national economic growth.

[Sonal Desai]

And so far, Perk says none of the economic shocks over the last few months has even dented the economy for now.

[Eduardo]

What's much more important is a pretty solid labor market, pretty solid wage growth, strong household balance sheets, moderating inflation.

[Sonal Desai]

As long as those factors hold steady, Perk says, the economy should be fine. Online. I'm Justin Ho for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Here's some data that maybe isn't so murky. 2024 was a tough year for a lot of retailers. Between January and November, about 50 of them filed for bankruptcy protection, in the process closing more than 7,000 stores. By way of context, that's a nearly 70% increase from the same period a year earlier. The data courtesy of coresight Research. There you might have heard the phrase, in fact, retail apocalypse thrown about a little bit. Thing is, consumer spending has been pretty strong, as we've talked about, and we have just been through the biggest holiday sales season yet. So Marketplace of Kristen Schwab set about trying to square that circle.

[Eduardo]

The TJ Maxx in lower Manhattan is buzzing during lunch hour. Callie Connolly is on her break, combing through racks of clothes.

[Sudeep Reddy]

I guess I'm a shopaholic, so I.

[Eduardo]

Met TJ Maxx just looking around, not.

[Sudeep Reddy]

For anything in particular.

[Eduardo]

Are you a Maxinista, though?

[Sudeep Reddy]

I mean, yes, but I'm not here like every day. But I do really like it here.

[Eduardo]

Maxinista is what TJ Maxx calls itself dedicated customers. Connelly comes in a couple times a month and says it's one of the few places she still shops in person. On a wall nearby, a sign reads, new styles arrive weekly. Shouldn't you?

[Sudeep Reddy]

There's just always something special and new.

[Eduardo]

I feel like they always have new stuff here. TJ Maxx is one of those wacky places where you can buy a designer bag, pasta sauce and a set of silver and gold water bottles in the shape of a croissant. The good deals and constant rotation of new stuff are reasons why discount retailers are doing well right now. TJ Maxx's sales have grown and its stock price has about doubled over the last half decade, but the mood of the industry at large is moody. Nicole D. Horatius is a professor of practice at Columbia Business School. I wouldn't say apocalypse, but I would say a readjustment. Readjustment is part of the natural churn of business. But the big challenge for retailers right now is they kind of have to be everywhere online, in person, and everything in between. They need to offer curbside pickup and easy returns. It's hard to do all of that well. I was trying to think of the last time I was delighted in a retail shopping experience. And I have to say it's been quite a while. You go to a store and the counter is cluttered with returned clothes. You go online to see if the pizza stone you've been eyeing is in stock at your nearest store, only to arrive and find an empty shelf. The integration of online and in person shopping takes resources away from doing any one thing. Well, I think it's totally possible to do all things right, but the question is, is, is it going to just be the companies that have the funding cash? That's why just a few companies have become people's go to for everything from food to footwear, says Erin Sherris, who leads the E commerce division at Bain & Company. To the victor goes the spoils, right? Like if you sort of looked at retail over the last decade, right.

[Sonal Desai]

More than half of the growth in.

[Eduardo]

US retail has come from Walmart, Amazon and Costco. Increasingly in retail, it takes money to make money. So to compete, retailers have to be the best.

[Sonal Desai]

The problem is that if you are.

[Eduardo]

Not what I would call the EST on something, the EST being the cheapest, fastest or highest quality, then it's really hard to win. If a smaller company wants to win, it has to focus. Which brings us back to TJ Maxx, one of the few retailers that gets away with not doing it all online and in person and instead leans into offering products that are affordable and special. Callie Connolly, the lunch hour shopper, brags about the best deal she's ever snagged at the store.

[Sudeep Reddy]

I found a like light green, I would almost call it pistachio House of Harlow Blazer.

[Eduardo]

And originally I think it's like 180. I got it for $50. Favorite thing I've ever owned.

[Sudeep Reddy]

For sure.

[Eduardo]

Love it. It's that thrill that keeps her coming back. In New York, I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Kristen was talking about some of the giants in the retail space, right? But you got retail macro and then you got retail micro. Kellen James is the owner of Silhouette Sneakers and Art in the historic Greenwood district of Tulsa, Oklahoma. He bought it almost a year ago, so we gave him a call to hear how things are going right now.

[Kellen James]

You definitely feel like there's this, this, this calm, like slow time right now. I don't want to go crazy with getting inventory, but I also am excited. I mean, really, honestly, 2025 is probably going to be One of the craziest times for sneakers. I mean, as many releases that's gonna, that's gonna happen this year, I'm excited about that. And that's really what's happening right now, is me planning out the stuff that I really want to make sure I get ahold of and just trying to get new inventory that I know people are gonna want. It's gonna be a continuous thing throughout this whole time is just to be able to continue to get the word out about Silhouette. I told somebody about a week ago that like, I want it to be where, like, even if you're not someone that's into sneakers, that you at least know where Silhouette is, what Silhouette is all about. Locally especially. I really am starting to understand that the obligation of being in a brick and mortar and having a business is more about being a part of the community. Find ways. Finding ways to be a part of the community. We're doing some events, we're doing different kind of events. We've already done one. We started this year. We did a bingo night once. You know, as a great. That's a great example of like that. That essentially doesn't have anything to do with sneakers or, you know, apparel or anything like that, but it's just a way to be a part of the community and bring people together to have a good time. We're doing more events like that, pop up shops to kind of highlight people, local people that are doing fun stuff. And so we want to keep doing stuff like that. And I'm hoping to get good reactions from the community. You have to find different ways to connect with people. That really is like my main thing that has stuck out to me the most is just like stuff in our store can be expensive, you know what I mean? And so I've always had it in my mind that just like I want to try to find ways to connect with people, it is more than just about what's on the walls and on the racks.

[Kai Rysdal]

Kellen James Silhouette Sneakers and Art Tulsa, Oklahoma this final note on the way out we close on trade policy, of which we will surely be hearing plenty in the 1401 days to come. From Edinburgh, Scotland today. This item saw this in the Guardian that McSween of Edinburgh, which is Scotland's biggest haggis maker, is going to make a U.S. compliant version of the delicacy. Having been shut out of the US market since 1971, it seems traditional haggis, I would not know, by the way, is made with sheep's lung, the use of which is prohibited as a human food. So they're going to make it with sheep heart, which is better? Our daily production team includes Andy Corbin, Nicholas Guillong, Maria Hollenhorst, Hiro Ekbnobi, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry and Sophia Terenzio. If you're Scottish, please don't me. I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow. Everybody, this is 8:00pm.

[Sonal Desai]

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[Eduardo]

Eduardo.