Still looking

Summary

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Marketplace Podcast Summary: "Still Looking"

Host: Kai Ryssdal
Release Date: January 24, 2025
Description: Every weekday, host Kai Ryssdal helps you make sense of the day’s business and economic news — no econ degree or finance background required. “Marketplace” takes you beyond the numbers, bringing you context. Our team of reporters all over the world speak with CEOs, policymakers and regular people just trying to get by.

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1. Labor Market Dynamics: Rising Unemployment Claims

The episode opens with a comprehensive analysis of the current labor market. Kai Ryssdal reports a slight increase in first-time unemployment claims, noting that while these numbers are typically volatile and often overlooked, the focus is now on continuing claims. Currently, nearly 1.9 million people are receiving unemployment benefits, marking the highest figure since November 2021 ([01:05]).

Key Points:

• Industry Layoffs and Hiring Freezes: Kaylee Wells highlights that layoffs in certain sectors and hiring freezes have contributed to the rise in unemployment claims. Allison Stevens from Paychex attributes this trend to an oversupply of qualified candidates in some markets.

• Selective Job Seeking: Workers are becoming more selective, prioritizing roles that offer remote work or are within specific geographical locations. Elise Gould explains, “They’re being much more selective with the roles that they're seeking, such as they have decided they must work remotely or... into an office, it’s only going to be within a certain geographical distance from their home” ([02:36]).

• Economic Implications: Although the number of continuing claims has risen, Elise Gould points out that as a percentage of the labor force, these claims are comparable to pre-COVID levels. This suggests underlying stability in the labor market despite the increase in absolute numbers ([03:33]).

Notable Quotes:

• Elise Gould: “I think in some pockets the market might be flooded with qualified candidates.” ([02:26])
• Elise Gould: “Every employment insurance agency, if you ask them, will say it's, you know, their busiest month.” ([03:08])
• Elise Gould: “But when we look at continuing claims, as a share of the labor force, it’s basically the same as it was pre-Covid.” ([03:34])

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2. The Luxury Electric Vehicle Market: GM’s Cadillac Lyriq

General Motors is making a significant push into the luxury electric vehicle (EV) market with the introduction of the Cadillac Lyriq SUV, priced at nearly $80,000. Nancy Marshall Genzer delves into this strategic move, exploring the viability and potential market for high-priced EVs ([05:50]).

Key Points:

• Market Saturation: Elaine Buckberg, former GM chief economist, notes a shift with over 30 luxury or premium EV models available compared to around 20 more affordable options in the 2024 model year ([06:02]). This indicates a growing trend towards luxury in the EV sector.

• Cost-Benefit Analysis for Consumers: Despite the high upfront cost, EV owners can expect annual savings between $1,000 to $1,200 compared to traditional gas vehicles, primarily due to lower fueling costs ([06:27]).

• Limited Market for Ultra-Luxury EVs: Experts like Jessica Caldwell from Edmunds suggest that EVs priced above $100,000 occupy a very small market segment, likely less than 1% of all vehicle sales ([07:13]).

Notable Quotes:

• Elaine Buckberg: “In model year 2024, there were more than 30 EV models that I consider luxury or premium, compared to only around 20 cheaper models.” ([06:02])
• Jessica Caldwell: “$100,000 EV is not going to be. It’s just no one can afford it.” ([07:13])

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3. Resilience of 24-Hour Diners in New York City: A Case Study of Kellogg's Diner

Priya Krishna, a food writer for The New York Times, shares her immersive experience spending a night at Kellogg's Diner in Brooklyn. Amidst the pandemic's impact on dining establishments, Kellogg's stands out as a resilient 24-hour diner that continues to attract a diverse clientele ([07:52]).

Key Points:

• Culinary Appeal: Kellogg's Diner distinguishes itself with high-quality offerings, including a $95 ribeye steak and desserts like passion fruit pie, catering to both long-time patrons and new customers seeking a premium diner experience ([09:53]-[12:24]).

• Community and Atmosphere: Unlike typical fast-food establishments, diners like Kellogg's provide a welcoming environment where patrons can enjoy a sit-down meal with attentive service, even during unconventional hours ([10:42]).

• Adaptation Post-Pandemic: Despite changing sleep patterns and the allure of faster food options, the diner has maintained its relevance by serving as a "third destination" beyond home and work, fostering community connections ([10:19]-[11:01]).

Notable Quotes:

• Elise Gould: “Apartment are too small, everyone needs somewhere else to be.” ([10:01])
• Priya Krishna: “The food at Kellogg does just that. I think it was kind of... It wasn't too fancy.” ([12:27])

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4. Financial Markets Update: Stocks and Bonds

Mitchell Hartman provides an overview of the financial markets, highlighting significant movements in stock indices and corporate earnings ([13:18]).

Key Points:

• Stock Market Performance:

  • Dow Industrial Average: Increased by 408 points (0.9%) to 44,565.
  • NASDAQ: Rose by 44 points (0.2%) to 20,053.
  • S&P 500: Gained 32 points (approximately 0.5%) to 6,118.

• Corporate Earnings:

  • Alaska Air: Benefited from robust holiday and corporate travel demand, surpassing fourth-quarter profit estimates and predicting a smaller-than-expected loss for the current quarter. Shares surged by nearly 2.210%.
  • American Airlines: Forecasted profits for 2025 to fall short of expectations due to rising jet fuel costs and a sales strategy that has deterred corporate travelers. Shares dipped by 0.875%.

• Bond Markets: Bond prices declined with the 10-year Treasury Note yield rising to 4.64%, reflecting market adjustments to interest rate expectations.

Notable Quotes:

• Mitchell Hartman: “Dow industrials up 408 points today. Nine tenths of 1%.” ([13:18])
• Mitchell Hartman: “American Airlines... profits for 2025 are not going to meet expectations.” ([14:07])

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5. The Evolving Labor Market: Post-Pandemic Recovery and Challenges

Backtracking to February 2020, Mitchell Hartman and Harvard economist Jason Furman examine the labor market's trajectory since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic ([15:40]-[20:53]).

Key Points:

• Job Recovery Lagging: Although the U.S. economy has added about 7 million more jobs since February 2020, it remains 4 million jobs short of what pre-pandemic trends would have projected, based on the Congressional Budget Office’s expectations ([16:24]-[16:46]).

• Immigration and Remote Work: A significant influx of immigrants has helped fill job vacancies, while the pandemic accelerated the adoption of remote and hybrid work models. Jared Doyle from Manpower Group notes that employees continue to demand greater flexibility in their work arrangements ([17:28]-[17:51]).

• Impact on Working Mothers and Child Care: Jasmine Tucker from the National Women's Law Center discusses the ongoing struggles of working mothers during the pandemic, particularly regarding childcare, an issue that remains unresolved with the child care sector only recently beginning to recover jobs ([17:40]-[18:58]).

• Job Churn Stabilization: Initially, the pandemic disrupted career paths and increased job turnover. However, five years later, job quitting has stabilized as employers focus on retaining talent through mental health support, work-life balance initiatives, and workplace inclusivity ([18:58]-[19:55]).

• Economic Dynamism: Betsy Stevenson from the University of Michigan highlights the labor market’s adaptability, emphasizing workers' ability to reinvent themselves, upskill, and reskill, contributing to the U.S. maintaining a dynamic and productive workforce ([19:46]-[20:03]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jason Furman: “The population is still growing, so we might be seeing more unemployed workers, but we're also seeing more workers in general.” ([03:55])
• Elise Gould: “It actually gives me a lot of hope for the future.” ([19:46])

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6. Housing Market Trends: Rising Rents and Regional Variations

The housing segment explores the national trend of rising rental costs alongside regional exceptions in Denver, San Antonio, and Austin ([20:53]-[23:27]).

Key Points:

• National Average Rent: Currently stands at $1,965 per month, marking a 3.4% increase over the past year, according to Zillow ([20:53]).

• Regional Declines: Denver, San Antonio, and Austin are unique in experiencing a decline in rent prices. Igor Popoff from Apartment List attributes this to an oversupply of new apartments entering the market, creating competitive pressures that lead landlords to offer concessions such as rent discounts or upgrades ([21:25]-[22:57]).

• Supply and Demand Dynamics: The construction boom in these cities initially responded to high demand and low interest rates. However, as these new units became available, the market shifted, resulting in increased options for renters and enhanced affordability ([21:59]-[22:55]).

Notable Quotes:

• Elise Gould: “Denver, San Antonio and Austin were the only metro areas where rents fell last year. What's so special about those places?” ([21:25])
• Igor Popoff: “With more new Units set to come online this year, we expect the concessions to continue.” ([22:55])

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7. Adventures in Housing: Building a Custom Home in Fairbanks, Alaska

The episode features Justine Schmidt’s personal journey of constructing a unique, self-built home in Fairbanks, Alaska. This segment underscores the growing trend of DIY housing projects influenced by regional autonomy and economic considerations ([23:27]-[26:36]).

Key Points:

• DIY Construction: Leveraging minimal regulations in Fairbanks, Justine and her partner Josh built their home from the ground up, incorporating features like giant arctic-grade windows and super-thick walls to withstand harsh climates. The total construction cost was just under $200,000 ([23:55]-[26:36]).

• Economic Efficiency: By undertaking the construction themselves, they significantly reduced costs compared to market-priced homes, which are generally unaffordable at similar specifications.

• Personal Connection: The home serves not just as a living space but as a personal project, symbolizing their connection and investment in their environment ([25:57]-[26:36]).

Notable Quotes:

• Justine Schmidt: “It's exactly what we want. I think we both feel very, like, connected to our house, like it's a little baby that we had, you know, it's our child.” ([22:57]-[23:27])

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8. Final Remarks and Public Service Announcements

Kai Ryssdal concludes the episode with a public service announcement emphasizing the importance of computer security, advising listeners to regularly log out of public computers to protect their accounts ([26:36]-[23:55]).

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Conclusion

The "Still Looking" episode of Marketplace provides an insightful exploration into the current economic landscape, touching on labor market fluctuations, the evolving luxury EV sector, resilient local businesses like 24-hour diners, and dynamic shifts in both the national and regional housing markets. Through expert interviews and real-life stories, the podcast offers listeners a nuanced understanding of ongoing economic challenges and trends shaping everyday life.

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Transcript

[Kai Rysdal]

This Marketplace podcast is supported by Glassdoor, announcing the best places to work in 2025 as determined by anonymous reviews from the people who Know Best real employees. Did your company make the list this year? Learn who's leading the way in workplace culture and employee satisfaction and see who's hiring today. Then join the conversation in the Glassdoor community to plot your next career move and make the most of your work Life. [e-mail].

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

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[Mitchell Hartman]

We'Ll go heavy on the labor market today and we'll grab a bite at a 24 hour diner. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Thursday today. This one is the 23rd of January. Good as always to have you along, everybody. Thursday mornings bring with metronomic regularity a report on first time claims for unemployment benefits. It bounces around a lot. That number does. Volatility is what economists call it. So most of the time, first time claims doesn't really rate a mention. And today, in fact, those first time claims barely ticked up just a teeny little bit. But continuing claims for unemployment help, that is people who've been getting benefits for at least a week rose more than expected, which means almost 1.9 million people right now are receiving unemployment benefits. And that is the most we've seen since November of 2021. Marketplace's Kaylee Wells has more on why and why it matters.

[Kaylee Wells]

Some industries saw a fair number of layoffs and hiring freezes in 2024. Allison Stevens is senior director of HR Solutions at Paychex and says they're partly to blame.

[Elise Gould]

I think in some pockets the market might be flooded with qualified candidates.

[Kaylee Wells]

And on top of that, Steven says people might also collect unemployment longer because.

[Elise Gould]

They'Re being much more selective with the roles that they're seeking, such as they have decided they must work remotely or.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

They if they are going to go.

[Elise Gould]

Into an office, it's only going to be within a certain geographical distance from.

[Kaylee Wells]

Their home, which is actually good for the economy because employees are more likely to stick with and excel at a job if they wait to find one that's best for them. But there's something else going on here. It's January. January is always like this. Michelle evermore with the Century foundation specializes in unemployment insurance.

[Elise Gould]

Every employment insurance agency, if you ask them, will say it's, you know, their busiest month.

[Kai Rysdal]

The industries that you see decline in.

[Elise Gould]

January are seasonal, holiday related, travel related, retail and construction and outdoor stuff.

[Kaylee Wells]

So there are more unemployed people this week and people are staying unemployed longer. But Elise Gould with the Economic Policy Institute says she's not worried.

[Elise Gould]

But when we look at continuing claims.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

As a share of the labor force.

[Elise Gould]

It'S basically the same as it was pre Covid.

[Kaylee Wells]

She says sure it's not as low as it has been in the past three years when the labor market has been really hot, but long term, I.

[Elise Gould]

Would say that it's been pretty stable.

[Justine Schmidt]

Over the last couple of years.

[Elise Gould]

You know, maybe a little bit of an uptick. But again, layoffs remain low. Things are still pretty strong.

[Kaylee Wells]

And remember, she says, the population is still growing, so we might be seeing more unemployed workers, but we're also seeing more workers in general. I'm Kaylie Wells for Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

President Trump said something today that deserves a mention. He did a video conference with the World Economic Forum in Davos and he said lots of things, but this one is right in our wheelhouse. With oil prices going down, I'll demand that interest rates drop immediately and likewise they should be dropping all over the world.

[Jason Furman]

Interest rates should follow.

[Mitchell Hartman]

US Central bank independence on monetary policy is kind of a bedrock of stability in this economy, as we talked about a lot before this election. That is item number one. Item number two is that a lot of the President's proposed policies are in and of themselves inflationary, which absent political interference, would dictate higher interest rates. Traders on Wall street again seem to have been in a buying mood. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. The corporate news of this Thursday comes to us from Detroit, Michigan, the headquarters of the General Motors Corporation, which said today it's going to try and grab a bigger slice of the luxury EV market, specifically with a fancier version of its Cadillac Lyriq suv. But when the average price of an EV already tops $50,000, how big a market can there really be for something even pricier? Marketplace's Nancy Marshall Genzer's on that one.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

The price of this latest Lyriq EV starts at nearly $80,000, hardly a bargain. But in the EV world, luxury is in.

[Kai Rysdal]

The EV market is lux heavy.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Elaine Buckberg is a former chief economist at GM. She says in model year 2024, there were more than 30 EV models that she considers luxury or premium, compared to only around 20 cheaper models. And she says EV buyers wouldn't necessarily bl an $80,000 price tag. One reason Buckberg estimates with a gas price of, say, $3.15 a gallon, an.

[Elise Gould]

EV owner could expect to save about $1,000 to $1,200 per year because it's.

[Kai Rysdal]

Cheaper to charge at home versus buy gas.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

You can also get a longer battery range with a higher priced ev. And then there are the early adopters. Sean Tucker, lead editor with Kelley Blue Book, says some people will even shell out $100,000 or more for really high end EVs.

[Elise Gould]

I think there's a cachet sense. These are extremely high technology vehicles and yeah, it's the latest thing and often.

[Mitchell Hartman]

When you're shopping in that price range, that's what you're looking for.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

But there are limits. Jessica Caldwell is head of insights at Edmunds. She says the market for EVs selling for $100,000 or more is really quite small.

[Justine Schmidt]

$100,000 EV is not going to be.

[Elise Gould]

You know, sell like hotcakes.

[Justine Schmidt]

It's just no one can afford it.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Caldwell estimates that EVs with six figure price tags are just a fraction of the market, probably less than 1% of all vehicles sold. I'm Nancy Marshall Genzer for Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

New York City bills itself famously as the city that never sleeps. And for years the all night diner was a critical amenity for all those very late night or very early morning New Yorkers. Since the pandemic, though, those 24 hour diners have been disappearing as New Yorkers. Sleep habits have changed. But those that remain open in the wee small hours do have a story to tell. Priya Krishna is a food writer for the New York Times and she pulled an all nighter of her own at Kellogg's Diner in Brooklyn. Priya, welcome to the program.

[Kai Rysdal]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Tell me why you chose Kellogg's, would you?

[Kai Rysdal]

I thought Kellogg's was a really great example of a 24 hour diner in that it has existed for a century. It closed during the pandemic and then it sort of bucked this trend that we've seen of 24 hour establishments either closing or curtailing their hours and reopened as a 24 hour establishment. So I thought it perfectly combined old and new.

[Mitchell Hartman]

And it is, by the accounts that you give, it was hopping pretty much the whole time you were there. 8pm to 8am, right?

[Kai Rysdal]

That's correct. Yeah.

[Mitchell Hartman]

So interesting clientele changes through the evening. I did want to touch on a couple of those folks. First of all, you have the regular sort of evening goers who are just out for a good meal and they go to a diner in New York City, which struck me as interesting.

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that's really interesting about Kellogg's is it has these two really amazing chefs, Jackie Carnesi and Amanda Perdomo, behind it. So, you know, it has a little bit more food cred than your average diner. So I think people who had heard of the chefs, had heard the food was good and was sort of treating it like a, like a culinary destination, which I thought was very interesting, I.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Will point out here. And I was interested to see that There is a $95 ribeye steak on the menu for this diner. Now, I understand New York City is.

[Kai Rysdal]

Expensive, but my goodness, that was a really divisive one.

[Mitchell Hartman]

A lot of the diners, I wonder why.

[Kai Rysdal]

Ye. Especially a lot of the diners who had been coming there for 30, 40 years were really shocked to see anything that cost $95 on a diner menu. I did ask the server and the server said that I think in her entire tenure as a server at Kellogg's, only three people had ordered it.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Yeah. Well, there you go. It was interesting to me that of the people you surveyed through the evening, a couple of them, here's one quote, apartments are too small, everyone needs somewhere else to be. And then another, we need a place to go very much a third destination place. Right. You got your home, you got your work, and now the Kellogg's diner, it seems.

[Kai Rysdal]

And I think diners have always served that purpose. It was heartwarming to see that the diners still serve that purpose.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Yeah, the other thing they do, or I guess the other thing they are not is fast food. Right. Cause a lot of places, and look, I don't go to many all night diners here in Los Angeles, but I bet fast food places outnumber 24 hour diners by a significant amount.

[Kai Rysdal]

They definitely do. And I brought up fast food establishments to these customers, asking, you know, why not go to, you know, a McDonald's at 3:00 in the morning? And a lot of them spoke to this idea of wanting to sit down and have a proper restaurant experience and be served like a hot homemade meal. And how diners are really one of the few establishments providing that at 3 o'clock in the morning.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Yeah, the staff didn't give you any hassle about sitting there for 12 hours, which was kind of cool.

[Kai Rysdal]

It was really interesting. And they definitely had no idea who I was. They had no idea I was a restaurant critic. You know, I was just there with a rotating cast of friends. I told my friends to keep ordering because we needed to justify our existence.

[Mitchell Hartman]

You sat there from 8 to 8 but you had friends come for like a couple hour shifts. Is that the deal?

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah, exactly. I had a spreadsheet. So I had like friends come from.

[Mitchell Hartman]

8 to 11 who drew the 2 o'clock in the morning shift. That's what I want to know. Is that like the lowest friend on your totem pole?

[Kai Rysdal]

No. I want to shout out my friend Jay who stayed from 8pm to 8am he never left.

[Mitchell Hartman]

What did you eat? What'd you eat?

[Kai Rysdal]

Gosh, I feel like we covered a good chunk of the menu. We had Caesar salad, we had shrimp cocktail. We had the passion fruit pie, which is my favorite thing on the menu, and lots of chocolate mint shakes.

[Mitchell Hartman]

You are a trained restaurant critic. What do you think?

[Kai Rysdal]

I thought the food was really good. I feel like it was certainly better than a lot of diner food, but it was kind of. It wasn't too fancy. And I almost feel like at a diner the food doesn't need to be anything fancy or super special. It just needs to satisfy and nourish. And I think the food at Kellogg does just that.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Right, right. Diners are not necessarily about the food. Priya Krishna at the New York Times. Priya, thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah, thank you.

[Justine Schmidt]

Coming up, we like the big open space. We have giant windows that are Arctic grade.

[Mitchell Hartman]

23 degrees was the high in Fairbanks, Alaska today. First though, let's do the numbers. Dow industrials up 408 points today. Nine tenths of 1%. $44,565. For the blue chips, the NASDAQ added 44 points. 2 10%. 20,053. The S&P 500 gained 32 points, about a half percent. 6,118. Strong demand for holiday and corporate travel helped Alaska Air beat its fourth quarter profit estimates and predict a smaller than expected loss for this quarter. Shares climbed just under 2 and 2, 10% today. American Airlines, on the other hand, said its profits for 2025 are not going to meet expectations thanks to the higher prices for jet fuel and a sales strategy that seems to have driven away Corporate Travelers. Shares down 8¾ of 1%. Day bond prices were down as well. The Yield on the 10 year T Note thus rose 4.64% for the 10 year. You're listening to Marketplace.

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[Mitchell Hartman]

I'm Kai Rysdal. February 2020 going on five years ago now was the last gasp of full month data that we had for the pre pandemic, and things were going pretty well. The labor market was on a roll, adding jobs at a healthy clip. Unemployment was at 3.5% by April of 2020. Of course, the pandemic in full swing, 22 million jobs had disappeared and unemployment peaked that month just shy of 15%. And it seemed, at least for a bit there, if we're being honest, that things might never get back to normal in this labor market. But they did. As you know, we're now well ahead job wise of where we were in the before times. But it's not like nothing's changed. Here's Marketplace's Mitchell Harman.

[Jason Furman]

There are now about 7 million more jobs in the U.S. economy than in February 2020. But there'd be 11 million more if we'd kept adding jobs at the same pace as we did in the five years before the pandemic. So we've fallen behind the pre pandemic trend, right? Not exactly, says Harvard economist Jason Furman.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Right now we have 3.5 million more jobs than the Congressional Budget Office had been expecting for this point in time prior to Covid.

[Jason Furman]

Here's how the math works. In the five years before the pandemic, unemployment fell from 5.5 to 3.5%. But no one expected the economy to keep adding jobs at the same rip roaring pace over the next five years, which would have meant unemployment falling to like one and a half percent, which economists will tell you pretty much can't happen. What did happen despite the pandemic, is job creation surged ahead of expectations. One big reason, says Furman, there's been.

[Mitchell Hartman]

A huge flow of immigrants into the.

[Jason Furman]

Country, filling open jobs, generating new ones. The pandemic also brought big changes in how we work, says Jane Oates at Working Nation.

[Elise Gould]

Since COVID we've seen fully remote, hybrid and everything in between except some of the mandatory frontline work construction, manufacturing.

[Jason Furman]

About one in four employees were working from home or a remote location sometime in December, including this guy. My name is Jared Doyle. I am the country manager in the US for Manpower Group. Doyle started working at the Global Staffing and recruitment agency in 2020. I lived in really the whole roller coaster that we've had. I interviewed remotely onboarded, remotely based here in Florida. Even though HQ is in Milwaukee, Doyle sees employees continuing to demand more flexibility in where and what hours they work. There was a downside to remote work early on, especially for working mothers, says Jasmine Tucker at the National Women's Law Center. She had a one and a half year old at home when the pandemic hit.

[Kai Rysdal]

It feels so long ago, five years ago, but we were all here with little kids, virtual learning with bigger kids. It was a really stressful time, she says.

[Jason Furman]

Five years later, it still is.

[Kai Rysdal]

We only just saw in 2024 the child care sector recover the jobs that it had lost. Look at population growth. There's no way pre pandemic child care workforce levels are going to be meeting the demand.

[Jason Furman]

The pandemic also shook up the labor market, untethering people from their previous jobs and careers. Job quitting and salary offers initially surged as employers scrambled to staff up again. Five years on, the job churn has calmed way down, says Jane Oates at Working Nation.

[Kai Rysdal]

People are not quitting.

[Elise Gould]

They seem very content in their jobs or nervous to leave. And employers are not laying off because.

[Jason Furman]

They still face a skills shortage, says Jer Doyle. And to retain employees, they're trying to prevent worker burnout. Mental health support, work life balance. Workplace inclusivity has been huge. Five years after the pandemic disrupted pretty much everything, University of Michigan economist Betsy Stevenson takes a broad view of where we are now.

[Elise Gould]

It actually gives me a lot of hope for the future. The American labor market has always been.

[Kai Rysdal]

Very well suited to having people reinvent.

[Elise Gould]

Themselves, upskill, reskill, change skills, find a.

[Jason Furman]

New path and become more productive.

[Elise Gould]

We ended up with the most dynamic labor market among developed countries. We've seen real wage growth, GDP growth, high labor force participation, the kind of.

[Jason Furman]

Economic dynamism that Stevenson says characterized the US back in the 20th century but hadn't been much in evidence in the 21st until the pandemic came along and shocked us into reinventing our economy. I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

It'll cost you on average $1,965 a month for the typical rental in this economy right now. That's across the entire pool of rental units nationwide. So of course, your mileage may vary. Point is, though, that that's up a relatively reasonable 3.4% over the past year. So says a report out this week from Zillow. And while rents are rising in most parts of the country, a couple of three cities are bucking that trend and offering some economic insights. As Daniel Ackerman explains, Denver, San Antonio.

[Elise Gould]

And Austin were the only metro areas where rents fell last year. What's so special about those places?

[Jason Furman]

In some sense, there's nothing special about them.

[Elise Gould]

Aniban Basu is CEO of Sage Policy Group. He says in recent years, a number of cities in the south and west saw huge growth along with rising housing costs. Basu says apartment builders saw the demand and got to work.

[Jason Furman]

But even in a good market, the market can become saturated. There can be overbuilding, and so when all of that capital flew into those markets to develop new properties, all of a sudden there weren't enough tenants.

[Elise Gould]

Across the country, rents are still rising, but at a slower rate than before the pandemic. Denver, San Antonio and Austin just happen to be the cities where rent growth has gone negative, says Igor Popoff, chief economist at Apartment List. Rents are not falling in those places because they're becoming less popular. Popoff says people moving there now have more options, including a bunch of shiny new apartment buildings. The projects that started back in the really high rental demand, low interest rate environment of a couple years ago, those are finally hitting the market now. And it's a very different market than when they broke ground. For one thing, it's more competitive for landlords. Emily Blair is executive vice president at the Austin Apartment Association. She says some owners are offering concessions.

[Kai Rysdal]

Maybe a floor plan upgrade or a.

[Justine Schmidt]

Couple of months free.

[Elise Gould]

So when you see a lot more.

[Justine Schmidt]

Supply, it does increase renters ability to.

[Elise Gould]

Have more choices in housing and increases.

[Justine Schmidt]

Their affordability options as well.

[Elise Gould]

And with more new Units set to come online this year. Blair expects the concessions to continue. I'm Daniel Ackerman for Marketplace.

[Mitchell Hartman]

I think we mentioned last week that housing starts were up at the end of last year. More ground being broken for more new homes. That's kind of interesting because the cost to build is way up. Construction materials will set you back 40% or more now than they did in 2020. And the average rate on a 30 year mortgage is still around 7%. Of course, you could just build yourself to keep costs down. Here's today's installment of our series, Adventures in Housing.

[Justine Schmidt]

My name is Justine Schmidt and I live in Fairbanks, Alaska. I've lived here about six years. It's a lovely cold place. Me and my partner Josh saw this property up for sale on a bike ride once and we were like, you know, that's a great spot. It's at the end of a dead end road. It like goes right up against state land that there's a bunch of trails on. It was pandemic time. So we had a bunch of, you know, pent up energy and had saved some money, you know, so we were like, this is a great idea. We built and designed and did the whole thing from the ground up, starting with cutting down all the trees and stacking all the firewood that we're still using. We started in 2021 and we moved in last fall. So there's a fun thing about living in Alaska especially. We're outside of like the town of Fairbanks, right? There's very little regulation, so there's a lot of people kind of like us who have almost no experience in construction and are like, you know what? I can do this. And that means a couple things. One, that you can kind of build what you want, which is really cool. And then the second thing is there's a lot of houses that end up for sale that are really weird. We built basically a large box. We have no, like, indoor walls and, like, doors, which we're fine with because it's just the two of us. We like the big open space. We have giant windows that are arctic grade and the walls are super thick. A little less than 200,000 is how much this house cost us to build. Which, you know, housing prices are different all over the place, but we definitely could not have gotten this house on the market for that much money. You know, I think a lot of people would come into this house and it is not like a normal house. Right. It's all open, but it is, like exactly what we want. I think we both feel very, like, connected to our house, like it's a little baby that we had, you know, it's our child.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Justine Schmidt, just outside Fairbanks, Alaska. Tell us about your adventure in housing. Would you do it yourself? Giant, big box or professionally built with all the bells and whistles? We want to know. You can reach [e-mail] this final note on the way out today, consider it a public service announcement. For those of you who use public computers from time to time, starting next month, Microsoft says it's automatically going to keep you logged into your account unless you sign out. You can see how this could go wrong, right? Log out, people. Just log out. Get used to doing it. Computer hygiene, it matters. John Buckley, John Gordon, Noya Carr, Diantha Parker, Amanda Peacher and Stephanie Seek are the Marketplace editing staff. Amir Babawe is the managing editor and I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow. Everybody, this is APM.