Tariff pain and retaliation

Summary

Marketplace Episode Summary: "Tariff Pain and Retaliation"

Release Date: March 5, 2025 | Host: Kai Ryssdal

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Introduction

In the March 5, 2025 episode of Marketplace, host Kai Ryssdal delves into the escalating tensions of international trade, focusing on the current wave of tariffs and their widespread repercussions. The episode navigates through various industries and regions affected by these economic policies, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the complexities involved in today’s trade environment.

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Tariffs and Trade Retaliation

[01:15] Kai Ryssdal sets the stage by addressing the pressing question: Are we in a trade war? He confirms, emphasizing that retaliatory tariffs have already been implemented, citing specific figures:

"Yes, 25% on Canada, 25% on Mexico, another 10% on China on top of the 10% already imposed retaliatory tariffs because this is the way things go in a trade war have already started." [01:15]

Ryssdal outlines the sectors targeted by these tariffs:

• Canada: Alcohol, clothing, and appliances.
• China: Agricultural products such as chicken and wheat.
• Mexico: Specific items yet to be determined.

He underscores the dynamic and ever-changing nature of trade policies, highlighting the immediate impact on business owners navigating this uncertain landscape.

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Impact on Businesses: Avocado Imports

Kristen Schwab of Marketplace investigates the direct effects on businesses caught in the crossfire of tariffs. She interviews Paul Weissman, an avocado importer at Healthy Avocado, who discusses the compounded challenges faced even before the imposition of tariffs:

[02:24] Paul Weissman states:

"The industry has been a little touch and go lately. Even before tariffs, supply from Mexico has been down because of bad weather." [02:24]

Weissman reveals that avocado prices have doubled compared to the previous year, impacting sales and consumer affordability. The uncertainty leads Weissman to question:

"Will consumers pay three or four dollars each for an avocado?" [02:39]

The dependency on Mexico as the primary supplier of avocados exacerbates the situation, leaving Weissman waiting to see how tariffs will further influence prices and whether farmers will adjust production accordingly.

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Broader Economic Impacts and Uncertainty

Erica York from the Tax Foundation provides insight into the broader economic implications of tariffs beyond immediate costs:

[02:52] Kai Ryssdal prompts:

"I don't think [consumers] will." [02:52]

[03:14] Erica York remarks:

"That itself has a negative impact on business investment, on business activity." [03:14]

York emphasizes that the uncertainty surrounding trade policies can deter long-term business investments. Kristen Schwab adds that even the potential reversal of tariffs won't instantly restore previously established business relationships, creating prolonged friction for companies operating across borders.

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Regional Effects: Texas and the Warehouse Market

The episode shifts focus to Texas, a state heavily integrated with Mexico’s economy, where the impact of tariffs is markedly pronounced. Elizabeth Troval reports on the substantial trade relationship Texas maintains with Mexico, valued at approximately $300 billion.

[05:12] Erica York explains the local effects:

"New tariffs could raise the price of what Texans eat and drink." [05:12]

Key industries affected include:

• Alcohol and Produce: Increased costs for beer, liquor, and agricultural products.
• Construction Materials: Higher prices for lumber and drywall sourced from Canada and Mexico, impacting homebuilding costs.
• Energy Sector: Oil producers face higher costs for essential equipment components from Canada and Mexico.
• Trucking Industry: Increased costs and reduced demand for semi-trucks, affecting logistics hubs like Laredo.

The episode highlights a significant vacancy rate disparity in the warehouse market, with smaller warehouses (under 100,000 square feet) experiencing lower vacancy rates compared to larger counterparts. Liz Young from Wall Street Journal discusses how the shortage of small warehouses hampers retailers like Half Price Books, forcing them to seek temporary storage solutions or downsize their operations.

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Walgreens and the Retail Pharmacy Industry

In a notable segment, Samantha Fields explores the struggles of major pharmacy chains amid the economic strain of tariffs and declining profits. Walgreens, a nearly century-old publicly traded company, is reportedly in talks to be taken private by Sycamore for around $10 billion, reflecting its decade-long challenges.

[07:15] Fields observes:

"Walking into a big pharmacy these days can be kind of depressing. Empty shelves, locked up products, long lines to pick up prescriptions." [07:15]

Key factors contributing to the decline include:

• Reduced Prescription Reimbursement: Lower profitability from prescription fills due to consolidation among pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs).
• Eroded Customer Experience: Declining in-store services leading to decreased foot traffic and sales.
• Competitive Pressures: Increased competition from online delivery services and alternative retail options.

The downward spiral is encapsulated in the cycle where diminished customer traffic leads to lower revenues, which in turn hampers investments in improving the customer experience, thereby further deterring consumers.

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Current Supply Chain and Warehousing Challenges

Liz Young's analysis in the Wall Street Journal sheds light on the ongoing issues in the warehousing sector. The overall vacancy rate for U.S. warehouses was reported at 6.7%, with a stark contrast between smaller (<100,000 sq. ft.) and larger warehouses (≥100,000 sq. ft.), standing at 3.9% and 10.1% respectively.

[13:06] Young explains:

"A lot of these properties, when they're smaller, are closer to cities. So they might be in urban areas themselves, they might be in suburban areas, and that means space is tight and land is expensive." [13:06]

The surge in demand for smaller warehouse spaces is attributed to companies seeking more flexible and localized storage solutions amidst economic uncertainties. Retailers like Half Price Books struggle to secure adequate warehouse space, leading to reliance on temporary storage or internal inventory management adjustments.

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Forest Service Layoffs and Community Impact

A poignant segment covers the layoffs within the Forest Service, highlighting the human and community side of economic policies. Emily Kocharski narrates the story of Forest Service workers in McCall, Idaho, who have been laid off despite their critical roles in maintaining public lands and ensuring safety during fire seasons.

[21:01] Kocharski shares her experience:

"I want to find a job. I'm going to pass out my resume and tell people what has happened to me and ask for help." [21:01]

The layoffs have spurred protests, with community members emphasizing the vital role these workers play:

[22:17] Kristen Schwab states:

"Our neighbors, our friends, our kids, soccer coaches, our federal employees. Employees. And without their income, our community doesn't have money coming into it." [22:17]

The reduction in workforce threatens the Forest Service’s ability to manage wildfires and maintain forest health, raising concerns about environmental and safety implications for local communities.

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Soccer Business Highlight: Eleven Shoe Brand

Shifting gears, Ben Shahebar introduces Eleven, a new soccer shoe brand aiming to break into a market long dominated by giants like Nike and Adidas. Shahebar shares the challenges of transitioning from digital design to physical product manufacturing, emphasizing the importance of quality and attention to detail.

[24:58] Shahebar reflects:

"When we got our first samples back, you know, the shape of the shoe was wrong, a lot of those construction details were wrong. And I remember being like, can I actually do this?" [24:58]

The brand plans a summer launch to capitalize on the growing soccer participation in the U.S., leveraging in-person demos at tournaments leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

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Market Closing and Financial Updates

Towards the episode’s conclusion, Ryssdal provides a financial roundup:

• Stock Market: Dow Industrials dropped by 1.5% to 42,005 points; NASDAQ slipped slightly; S&P 500 saw a 1.2% decline.
• Retail Impact: Best Buy’s shares fell over 13% following lower-than-expected outlooks tied to tariff-induced price increases. Target also saw a 3% drop as it announced potential in-store price hikes to mitigate tariff impacts.
• Bond Market: Yields on ten-year Treasury notes rose to 4.25%, indicating shifting investor sentiments amidst economic uncertainties.

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Conclusion

The "Tariff Pain and Retaliation" episode of Marketplace paints a comprehensive picture of the multifaceted impact of tariffs on the U.S. economy. From agricultural imports and regional industries to major retail chains and public sector employees, the ripple effects of trade policies are far-reaching. Through insightful interviews and detailed reporting, Kai Ryssdal and the Marketplace team provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the ongoing trade dynamics and their implications for businesses and communities across the nation.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kai Ryssdal [01:15]: "Yes, 25% on Canada, 25% on Mexico, another 10% on China on top of the 10% already imposed retaliatory tariffs because this is the way things go in a trade war have already started."

• Paul Weissman [02:24]: "The industry has been a little touch and go lately. Even before tariffs, supply from Mexico has been down because of bad weather."

• Erica York [03:14]: "That itself has a negative impact on business investment, on business activity."

• Kristen Schwab [22:17]: "Our neighbors, our friends, our kids, soccer coaches, our federal employees. Employees. And without their income, our community doesn't have money coming into it."

• Ben Shahebar [24:58]: "When we got our first samples back, you know, the shape of the shoe was wrong, a lot of those construction details were wrong. And I remember being like, can I actually do this?"

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This summary aims to encapsulate the essence of the episode, providing listeners with a thorough overview of the discussions surrounding tariffs and their widespread economic and social impacts.

Transcript

[Lisa]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

One word, one guess people. What do you got from American Public Media? This is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kai Rysdal. It is Tuesday today, March 4th. Good as always to have you along everybody. Should you be wondering whether we are in a trade war? Yes, 25% on Canada, 25% on Mexico, another 10% on China on top of the 10% already imposed retaliatory tariffs because this is the way things go in a trade war have already started. Canada's gonna hit alcohol, clothing and appliances. China's doing chicken, wheat and other things agricultural. Mexico says it is going to exact list as yet tbd. And look, this is a dynamic policy environment, right? Changes are possible by the very hour as we've seen since the inauguration. But spare a thought in this moment for the business owners stuck in the middle. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab made some calls.

[Kristen Schwab]

Paul Weissman at Healthy Avocado imports more than a million boxes of avocados a year and he says the industry has been a little touch and go lately. Even before tariffs, supply from Mexico has been down because of bad weather.

[Emily Kocharski]

The prices for super bowl were twice.

[Kristen Schwab]

What they were last year, which impacted sales. It makes him wonder if people have already reached the price threshold for guacamole.

[Emily Kocharski]

Will consumers pay three or four dollars each for an avocado?

[Kai Ryssdal]

I don't think so.

[Kristen Schwab]

Mexico is the biggest supplier of avocados. So all he can do is wait to see how tariffs impact prices and wait to see if farmers adjust to compensate. Erica York at the Tax foundation says the cost of tariffs is a big factor for businesses and consumers, but a perhaps bigger consequence for the economy is the uncertainty of trade policy.

[Erica York]

That itself has a negative impact on business investment, on business activity.

[Kai Ryssdal]

If you're a business trying to plan.

[Erica York]

A long term investment, you're going to.

[Kristen Schwab]

Sit on your hands, York says Even if a trade war doesn't emerge and even if, say, Trump reversed these tariffs, they've created friction for companies across borders.

[Erica York]

These are business relationships that have developed over years.

[Kai Ryssdal]

We don't really see them snap back into place overnight.

[Kristen Schwab]

This is the main worry for Chip McElroy at McElroy Manufacturing in Tulsa. Many of the components he uses to make construction equipment come from Canada and Mexico. That's also where most of the finished equipment he exports ends up. He thinks retaliatory tariffs might make his customers look elsewhere.

[Kai Ryssdal]

There is an influx of Chinese equipment that is substandard to what we provide but is, well, let's just say Chinese priced.

[Kristen Schwab]

While he waits to see how it all shakes out, he'll be doing some component pricing job.

[Emily Kocharski]

One is to gain some clarity on what actual impact these tariffs are going.

[Kristen Schwab]

To have so he can quantify the new cost of thousands of components that go into one piece of construction equipment. I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.

[Kai Ryssdal]

One of the realities of tariffs is that they hit differently depending on, among other things, where you are. Henry Epp did a story for us the other day about New England and New York, perhaps having to pay more for electricity than it gets from Canada. Sure enough, today, Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario, said that province is going to impose a 25% tariff on power it sends to a million and a half homes in Minnesota, Michigan and New York. Texas, meanwhile, has what amounts to a roughly $300 billion trade relationship with Mexico all on its own. So after 30 years of free trade, Marketplace's Elizabeth Troval takes us to the state where everything is bigger, including the effects of tariffs.

[Erica York]

New tariffs could raise the price of what Texans eat and drink.

[Ben Shahebar]

It's beer, it's liquor, produce, agave, sugar.

[Erica York]

Coffee, chocolate, and where they sleep, softwood.

[Ben Shahebar]

Lumber, which is like your frame lumber, gypsum board, which is your drywall. All those are largely sourced in Canada and Mexico. And these tariffs on the building materials would drive up the cost to build a home.

[Erica York]

That was Emily Williams Knight with the Texas Restaurant association and Houston area homebuilder Matthew Ribenstein. Out in West Texas, oil producers who get pipes from Canada and Mexico could feel the squeeze, says Carr Ingham with the Texas alliance of Energy Producers.

[Ben Shahebar]

There's a lot of steel that is deployed in the business of drilling for and producing and transporting crude oil and.

[Erica York]

Natural gas in the trucking industry, which has boomed under free trade. John Esparza with the Texas Trucking association says he worries tariffs will increase the cost of semi trucks and decrease demand for trucking.

[Kai Ryssdal]

That could mean less business and at a higher cost.

[Erica York]

Many trucks operate out of Laredo, which is particularly exposed to tariffs, says Daniel Covarrubias with Texas A and M International university.

[Emily Kocharski]

On a 30 mile radius here across.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Border, you have upwards of 1500 logistics.

[Ben Shahebar]

Companies, transportation companies, customs brokers or logistics warehouses.

[Erica York]

These firms grew out of decades of free trade. But economist Ray Perryman says now with.

[Emily Kocharski]

Tariffs, you really rip up an entire.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Supply chain that we've spent the last 50, 60 years building. It really begins to impact employment in a significant way. Because of the inflation, consumers have less money to spend.

[Erica York]

He says if tariffs are sustained, all states will feel it, but especially Texas because its economy is so integrated with Mexico's. I'm Elizabeth Troval for Marketplace on Wall street today.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Well, let's just say the major indices closed off their lows, shall we? We'll have the details when we do the numbers. Walgreens has been a publicly traded company for nearly a century, and according to the Wall Street Journal, it might be about to be taken private. The retailer, which also owns the Boots chain over in the UK is is said to be in talks to sell to the private equity firm sycamore for about $10 billion. Truth is though, that Walgreens has been struggling for about a decade now. And it is not the only drugstore chain out there that's been having a hard time. Rite Aid has filed for and come out of bankruptcy protection, CVS is in trouble, and all three chains have been closing stores by the score. Marketplace's Samantha Fields has more now on what's going on with the retail pharmacy industry.

[Samantha Fields]

Walking into a big pharmacy these days can be kind of depressing. Empty shelves, locked up products, long lines to pick up prescriptions.

[Liz Young]

If your stores aren't very good, then.

[Kristen Schwab]

Why would people bother to go in there?

[Samantha Fields]

Neil Saunders at Global Data says chain pharmacies were designed to be convenient, the.

[Liz Young]

Place you can quickly pop to if.

[Lisa]

You need a pint of milk or.

[Liz Young]

You need to buy replacement skincare or something like that.

[Samantha Fields]

For years, he says, pharmacies figured people would just keep coming in no matter what. Because of that convenience factor.

[Kai Ryssdal]

They became very lazy.

[Liz Young]

They just don't bother with retail.

[Samantha Fields]

And with so many other convenient options now, including speedy online delivery, Saunders says customers have drifted away from pharmacies and sales have fallen. On top of that, Dima Cato at USC's School of Pharmacy says drugstores aren't making nearly as much as they used to filling prescriptions either.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Reimbursement for prescription drugs has declined and that's really the source of profit for pharmacies. So that's made it worse and more challenging for pharmacies to stay operational.

[Samantha Fields]

The main reason they're making less on prescriptions has to do with the consolidation of pharmacy benefit managers, or PBMs, the companies that negotiate drug reimbursement rates with insurers, manufacturers and pharmacies. George Hill at Deutsche bank says today about 80% of prescriptions go through just three PBMs.

[Emily Kocharski]

They just have incredible negotiating power and.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Incredible leverage and have done a great.

[Emily Kocharski]

Job of forcing retail pharmacies to compete.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Against each other, which has led to.

[Emily Kocharski]

Dramatic erosion in pharmacy payments and pharmacy reimbursement.

[Samantha Fields]

Couple that with the decline in the in store experience and Hill says big pharmacy chains have found themselves in a downward spiral.

[Emily Kocharski]

The customer experience isn't good, so fewer customers want to go there, so the stores make less money, so they have less money to invest in the customer experience, which means fewer people want to go there, which means earnings continue to.

[Samantha Fields]

Erode and on and on. It's a tough cycle to break. I'm Samantha Fields for Marketplace.

[Kai Ryssdal]

We're past the dismal days of all that supply chain agita. We went through the pandemic. But what happened supply wise back then is still playing out in where companies store their stuff, warehouses specifically, how many of them retailers need how big and where they should be. And the warehouse business just ain't keeping up. Liz Young wrote in the Wall Street Journal the other day about the warehouse market and which sizes of it are currently out of stock. Liz, thanks for coming on.

[Liz Young]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Let's get a little ground truth here. When we talk small or smaller warehouses, what are regular warehouses? And then what are how big are smaller warehouses?

[Liz Young]

So warehouses can obviously run the gamut in terms of size. They can be quite small. I mean 1,000 square feet. They can be the million plus square foot buildings that we see on the side of highways. So I Looked and set the definition of a small warehouse as anything under 100,000 square feet. Now, of course, that's still quite large, but compared to the whole gamut of what's. What's happening with warehousing, those are considered quite small.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Okay, now let's talk vacancy rates. What's the difference between, you know, above and under 100,000 square feet?

[Liz Young]

So the overall nationwide vacancy rate in the fourth quarter was 6.7%, which has been climbing quarter over quarter. And what I found was that the vacancy rate for U.S. warehouses owned under 100,000 square feet was 3.9%, while buildings that are more than 100,000 square feet had a 10.1% vacancy rate.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Okay, how come?

[Liz Young]

So the reason is a few different things. There's a lot of demand for smaller spaces, especially as companies get more careful about their leasing decisions. There's general economic uncertainty. A ton of companies expanded quite a lot during the pandemic, and so companies have since kind of dialed that back. So if they've taken on more space, they've looked to take on smaller spaces at the same time. That kind of frenzied pace of expansion during the pandemic prompted a lot of real estate developers to say, hey, we want to get in on this. And they started building warehouses. But almost all of those have been concentrated in that large category, if you will.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Yeah, I mean, you can go. And we did. During the pandemic, we did stories out there. You go 35 miles east from LA, 40ish, whatever. You get out to the Inland Empire in Riverside county, and there's warehouses all over the place, and they're huge. And now they want smaller ones that I'm going to guess are closer in. Right. It's that whole last mile thing.

[Liz Young]

Absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of these properties, when they're smaller, are closer to cities. So they might be in urban areas themselves, they might be in suburban areas, and that means space is tight and land is expensive.

[Kai Ryssdal]

So talk to me about the retailers who want these smaller spaces you talked about in this piece. Half Price Books.

[Liz Young]

So Half Price Books is a discount, secondhand books retailer. They have stores across the country. They have kind of localized, so that mostly they fulfill orders out of their stores, but they like to have a little bit of warehouse space, especially in certain markets, to have extra stock on hand. So one example of where they've run into this problem with a shortage of small warehouses is that they've been looking for a new warehouse in the Twin Cities region of Minnesota more than a year and haven't been able to find anything.

[Kai Ryssdal]

So what are they doing? I mean, it's not like they can go to one of those, you know, maybe they can one of those self storage places and rent like. Like a storage garage.

[Liz Young]

Yeah. They are in fact using temporary storage units.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I was kidding. Sorry.

[Liz Young]

Yeah. And they also, they also are just doing what we all do with our homes.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Right.

[Liz Young]

If you run out of space, you start to go through and think, okay, what can I get rid of?

[Kai Ryssdal]

What about the biggies? Because the biggies have that whole, you know, we'll get it to you in three hours thing. And it's not like they're driving from Riverside county to my house in la. Three hours, even on a good day, you know?

[Liz Young]

Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of the big companies, of course, are the ones driving up demand for this space. There's also companies that specialize in renting out. You know, if a company has an extra 100,000 square feet in their own warehouse, but they're not using it, there are companies that then come in and connect, you know, somebody who wants that space with the company that has it.

[Kai Ryssdal]

So as the person on this call who specializes in supply chains and logistics, what's your sense of how companies are feeling now, given the economic agita that is out there and seems to be on the horizon, and what these companies are feeling in terms of their supply chains and logistics and how they're going to be able to do business?

[Liz Young]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that this is creating a stressor. I think they need the space. There's uncertainty about when construction will pick up in this category and they don't know what they'll do without it. So I'm sure that some of them will have to think differently about their supply chains and organize things in a different manner because they're unable to get the space that they feel they need.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Liz Young at the Wall Street Journal. Liz, thanks a bunch.

[Liz Young]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Coming up.

[Emily Kocharski]

So we grew up watching Manchester United play, so I think soccer's just always been around me turning that into a business.

[Kai Ryssdal]

But first, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials down 670 points today. One and a half percent. Closed at 42,005. The NASDAQ slipped 65 points. That's about a third of 1%. 18,285. The S&P 500 subtracted 71 points. 1.2%. 57 and 78. Best Buy beat fourth quarter expectations, but the outlook was mixed. CEO said price increases are likely due to China and Mexico tariffs. Where have you heard that before? Best buy down 13 and a third percent today. Target shares dwindled 3% after their retailer also warned tariffs could drag down profits. Target said price increases could take effect in stores as early as get this the next couple days. Samantha Fields was telling us about Walgreens Boots alliance going private, maybe for now. Still, publicly traded shares elevated 5.6% today. Competitors CVS Health ticked down about one and a tenth percent. Bond prices fell as well. The yield on the ten year T note thus rose 4.25%. You're listening to Marketplace.

[Murphy Woodhouse]

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[Lisa]

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[Murphy Woodhouse]

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[Kai Ryssdal]

That's netspi.com this is Marketplace. I'm Kai Ryssdal. Here's your semi regular reminder that just one in five federal employees live in or near Washington, D.C. the flip side of that coin, of course, is that four out of five, 80% don't, including most of the 2,000 Forest Service workers who've been sacked by Elon Musk and his operatives. And in a lot of places, those public lands agencies like the Forest Service are major employers. Places like McCall, Idaho, population about 3,700. The Mountain West News Bureau's Murphy Woodhouse has more.

[Ben Shahebar]

It's a postcard snowy day in the charming Lakeside town of McCall, but it's warm inside the Flying M Cafe where Forest Service workers are preparing for a protest. One of them is Emily Kocharski. She got laid off from Idaho's Payette National Forest on Valentine's Day.

[Kristen Schwab]

It felt pretty horrible.

[Ben Shahebar]

Koharski was a trail crew lead and in a memo she was told she had not shown that her continued employment would, quote, be in the public interest.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I mean, the main part of my.

[Ben Shahebar]

Job in the winter is safety.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I ride out on snowmobiles.

[Ben Shahebar]

I check avalanche reports.

[Kristen Schwab]

I disseminate information to the public.

[Ben Shahebar]

Karski was a probationary employee. She liked her work and did it well. In her most recent performance review, she was deemed to be, quote, fully successful. Karski is here for the protest, but she also brought her resume. I want to work. I want to find a job. I'm going to pass out my resume.

[Kai Ryssdal]

And tell people what has happened to me and ask for help.

[Ben Shahebar]

A union steward with the National Federation of Federal employees said that 45 Forest Service employees on the payette have been laid off recently. New Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins supports the administration's efforts to eliminate inefficiencies and strengthen USDA's many services to the American people. According to a statement last week, a federal judge found that the layoffs of probationary employees were likely illegal. The firings have spurred protests across the West. Some 50 people, including the Forest Service workers from the Flying M, are gathered at a small park near snow covered Payette Lake. Bryce Baer takes the mic. He's a now former backcountry ranger and was also a probationary employee. He was also told that his continued employment was not in taxpayers interest.

[Samantha Fields]

I take a real great offense to that.

[Ben Shahebar]

Spare's job included patrolling trails and keeping bathrooms clean. Like many in the Forest Service, he started his career as a seasonal worker before getting a permanent position. Spare's supervisor was disturbed by his termination and she provided Spare with a letter. Calling the notion that his work did not serve the public a farce. Spare says he and other laid off colleagues represent decades of on the ground experience.

[Kai Ryssdal]

There's a ton of knowledge that's being lost right now.

[Ben Shahebar]

By early afternoon, nearly 150 protesters line McCall's main drag. Chants and the honks of supportive motorists fill the air. Bethany Thomas works at a local bookstore. Her sign reads Valley county stands with our federal workers.

[Kristen Schwab]

You know, our neighbors, our friends, our kids, soccer coaches, our federal employees. Employees. And without their income, our community doesn't have money coming into it.

[Ben Shahebar]

County data show that the Forest Service is the area's third largest employer, ahead of a school district, the local hospital and a major ski resort.

[Kristen Schwab]

And I have huge concerns over what this means for our forests and our communities in the coming fire seasons.

[Ben Shahebar]

While Forest Service fire personnel are exempt from the layoffs, many non fire staff play key roles in preventing or responding to wildfires.

[Kai Ryssdal]

A lot of us are in support positions.

[Ben Shahebar]

That's Brad LaPlante, the Payette Union steward. Even though he works in forest health, he is regularly deployed on fires.

[Emily Kocharski]

It helps come July and August when.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Fire season is really ramped up.

[Ben Shahebar]

Laplant still has his job, but he's worried about whether he and the other workers who remain can fulfill the Forest Service's missions like caring for the land and keeping communities safe from fire. In McCall, Idaho, I'm Murphy Woodhouse for.

[Kai Ryssdal]

These are salad days for soccer fans. The English Premier League is on, Europe's Champions League. MLS here in the States is going and the NWSL starts next week its season. And then in the summer of 2026, the center of the soccer universe comes to the United States, Canada and Mexico for the World Cup. In the meanwhile, soccer in the US is booming. Participation from 2018 to 2023 up 28%. And more players means more customers. Which brings us to today's installment of our series My Economy.

[Emily Kocharski]

I'm Ben Shahebar. I'm the founder of a new soccer shoe brand called Eleven and I'm based in Washington, D.C. i grew up in a household that was really all about soccer. I have two older brothers, they all played soccer. My dad was our coach, my mom is from Manchester, England. So we grew up watching Manchester United play. So I think soccer has just always been around me. And then I've always also enjoyed building physical products. And building a soccer shoe brand really was combining those, those two passions of soccer and engineering. You know, Nike, Adidas and Puma have certainly dominated the market for a really long time. But we're seeing in other spaces like running or trail running or cycling, where there are a number of indie or startup brands that are really starting to break through. And there really hasn't been a brand in soccer. And so I really think there's a big opportunity to do this for that market. One of the biggest learnings of starting the shoe company has really been about, I guess, building the physical product itself. We spent the first couple months really on the digital design, but then you have to take that design, however detailed it is, and you have to actually make it in real life. And that translation step has really been the hardest, the most tedious, also fulfilling part of it. Our first sample that we got, I got the first pictures of it on Thanksgiving Day and it was awful. Before we got our first sample, we had provided to the factory very detailed. They're called tech packs, but it's essentially a blueprint of this is what the shoe should look like. And when we got the first samples back, you know, the shape of the shoe was wrong, a lot of those construction details were wrong. And I remember being like, can I actually do this? Am I actually going to be able to make the shoe that I would want to wear? And what we, what we really had to do is first we pushed back and said, hey, here are all the things that you need to do. And when it was clear that they didn't want to put in that effort, we ended up switching factories and we've made a ton of progress since. And it's all worked out. 2025 is upon us. Our goal is to be launched this summer, so probably July or August, and then really get as many players as possible exposed to our product through a lot of in person demos at tournaments and other events in the lead up to the World cup, which I think is going to be huge in 2026 for our brand.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Ben Shahbar, founder of the soccer startup 11 Manchester United shares. By the way, it is publicly traded ticker symbol manu, manu off 17% the past six months, which is coincidentally, perhaps or not when the Premier League season started. Might have something to do with Manchester United. United sitting 14th in a 20 team league this final note on the way out today, should you be in need of 1,779,349 square feet of office space in the nation's capital, Elon Musk and his operatives have just what you're looking for. The J. Edgar Hoover Building. The I guess soon to be former headquarters of the FBI is on the General Services Administration's disposal list. Here, I quote the GSA we are identifying buildings and facilities that are not core to government operations. Our Digital and On Demand team includes Kerry Barber, Jordan Manji, Dylan Mietanen, Jenna Nguyen, Olga Oxman, Ellen Rothfuss, Virginia K. Smith and Tony Wagner. Francesca Levy is the Executive Director of Digital and On Demand. I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow Everybody. This is APM.

[Erica York]

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