That’s a headscratcher

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "That’s a Headscratcher"

Release Date: January 22, 2025
Host: Kai Ryssdal
Description: Every weekday, host Kai Ryssdal helps you make sense of the day’s business and economic news — no econ degree or finance background required. “Marketplace” takes you beyond the numbers, bringing you context. Our team of reporters all over the world speak with CEOs, policymakers, and regular people just trying to get by.

---

1. Tariffs and the Automotive Supply Chain

Overview:
The episode opens with a deep dive into President Trump's announced economic policies, specifically the planned 25% tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico, set to take effect on February 1st. These tariffs pose significant challenges to the automotive industry due to its intricate supply chains spanning across North America.

Key Points:

• Complex Supply Chains: The automotive industry relies heavily on cross-border trade between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. For instance, "one third of the engines that are put in our gas cars cross one of the borders" ([02:21] James Rubenstein).

• Impact of Tariffs: Imposing a 25% tariff on such a tightly knit supply chain could drastically increase costs. "According to Wolf Research, 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico would increase the cost of the average new car by about $3,000" ([03:58]).

• Supply Chain Logistics: Jonathan Smoke from Cox Automotive explains the logistical nightmare tariffs could create. "Take wiring that might go from Mexico to the US to become a seat harness, then back to Mexico to become a seat, and then back to the US to actually get put in a car" ([03:16]).

Notable Quote:
James Rubenstein, Professor Emeritus of Geography at Miami University, states at [03:56]:
"Introducing tariffs of 25% into this decades-old Byzantine trading system would get difficult and expensive very quickly."

---

2. Global Competition and Europe's Strategic Shift

Overview:
The narrative shifts to the global stage, highlighting Ursula von der Leyen's speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos. She outlines Europe's pivot from reliance on global trade and Russian energy to a stance of increased geopolitical competition.

Key Points:

• Europe's New Era: Europe's dependence on cheap Russian energy and outsourced security is diminishing. "The cooperative world order we imagined 25 years ago has not turned into reality. Instead, we have entered a new era of harsh geostrategic competition" ([05:14]).

• Economic Diversification: Von der Leyen emphasizes the need for Europe to diversify its energy sources and strengthen its geopolitical strategies ([04:49]).

Notable Quote:
Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, remarks at [05:14]:
"The cooperative world order we imagined 25 years ago has not turned into reality. Instead, we have entered a new era of harsh geostrategic competition."

---

3. Streaming Wars and Netflix’s Strategic Pivot

Overview:
The podcast explores the evolving landscape of the streaming industry, focusing on Netflix's strategic shift from binge-watching to live events and enhanced user engagement metrics.

Key Points:

• Subscriber Saturation: Netflix's subscriber growth is plateauing, prompting a shift in strategy. "We are nearing or maybe have approached a kind of a saturation point of subscribers" ([06:40]).

• New Metrics Focus: Instead of emphasizing subscriber numbers, Netflix is likely to prioritize revenue and user engagement. "How much revenue are we bringing in?" ([07:40] Michael Smith).

• Live Events and Diversification: To rekindle user interest, Netflix is investing in live events like the "Roast of Tom Brady" and NFL games on Christmas Day ([06:40] Charlotte Howell's class insights).

Notable Quote:
Michael Smith, Professor of Information Technology at Carnegie Mellon, states at [07:40]:
"A few million new subscribers per quarter no longer looks impressive. Instead, Netflix will focus on different data points."

---

4. Rebuilding After Wildfires: Fire-Resilient Housing

Overview:
Amy Scott narrates the compelling story of Melanie Glover and her family rebuilding their home in Superior, Colorado, using innovative, fire-resilient materials after the devastating Marshall fire.

Key Points:

• Innovative Construction: Glover chooses to rebuild with earth blocks made from compressed sand and clay, enhancing fire resistance. "I need to build a house out of earth because it doesn't burn" ([10:44]).

• Passive Design Principles: Andrew Mitchler designs passive, low-energy buildings that are also fire-resilient by making homes airtight and simple to prevent ember intrusion ([10:42]).

• Community Impact: Carolyn Kuske from the Environmental Defense Fund emphasizes the importance of widespread adoption of fire-resilient practices to protect entire communities ([10:16]).

Notable Quote:
Melanie Glover shares at [10:44]:
"We need to build differently, we need to build better."

---

5. Energy Policy and Domestic Oil Production

Overview:
The discussion turns to the White House's push for increased domestic oil production amidst already high production levels in the U.S., exploring investor sentiment and economic implications.

Key Points:

• Investor Priorities: Investors now favor dividends and share buybacks over reinvesting in new drilling projects. "You're going to pay us dividends and you're going to do share buybacks" ([18:32]).

• Economic Viability: Matt Smith from Kepler suggests that current oil prices may not justify the expansion of drilling projects, although higher prices could trigger increased production in shale plays ([18:40]).

• Consumer Impact: Smith cautions that higher oil production might not benefit consumers due to potential price increases at the pump ([18:40]).

Notable Quote:
Matt Smith, Analyst at Kepler, remarks at [18:40]:
"If oil prices go up, that would be the thing that would drive on production and that would likely be in the shale plays."

---

6. US Worker Pay Outpacing Inflation

Overview:
Daniel Ackerman highlights the positive trend of US worker wages outpacing inflation for two consecutive years, a phenomenon largely driven by sustained productivity gains.

Key Points:

• Productivity as the Driver: Businesses have invested in capital improvements and technology, enhancing worker productivity. "Real wage growth has to come from productivity growth because we're doing more with less" ([21:47] Betsy Stevenson).

• Comparative Advantage: Unlike other countries facing productivity slowdowns, the US continues to see wage growth outpacing inflation, according to Betsy Stevenson ([20:36]).

• Economic Implications: Increased productivity enables higher wages without corresponding increases in costs, benefiting American workers and maintaining economic competitiveness.

Notable Quote:
Betsy Stevenson, Professor of Economics at the University of Michigan, states at [21:55]:
"Real wage growth has to come from productivity growth because we're doing more with less."

---

7. Climate Solutions: Steel Slag Carbon Capture

Overview:
Kaylee Wells reports on an innovative climate solution using steel slag to capture and store carbon dioxide, showcasing how industrial byproducts can be repurposed to combat climate change.

Key Points:

• Carbon Capture Mechanism: Sean McCauley’s company, Alkali Earth, uses steel slag—a byproduct of steel production—to accelerate the natural process of carbon dioxide absorption. "We're accelerating the natural process that the earth uses to remove excess carbon dioxide with minerals" ([23:37]).

• Scientific Basis: Ella Milliken from Yale University explains that the calcium in steel slag reacts with CO₂, converting it to stable calcium carbonate, effectively removing CO₂ from the atmosphere ([23:37]).

• Economic Model: Steel mills pay Alkali Earth to remove slag, and companies like Shopify and Stripe purchase carbon credits to subsidize the cost, making the process financially viable ([23:37]).

• Scalability: McCauley plans to expand internationally, targeting regions with existing steel production to implement the carbon capture solutions on a larger scale ([27:42]).

Notable Quote:
Sean McCauley, Founder of Alkali Earth, explains at [23:37]:
"What we're doing is accelerating the natural process that the earth uses to remove excess carbon dioxide with minerals."

---

8. Market Overview

Overview:
Kai Ryssdal provides a brief update on the stock market, highlighting significant movements in major indices and specific sectors influenced by the day's news.

Key Points:

• Stock Performance: Dow Industrials rose by 537 points (1.25%), NASDAQ by 126.6 points (10%), and S&P 500 by 552 points (10%).

• Automotive Sector: Magna International (Canada-based) and Allison Transmission (Indianapolis-based) saw stock increases due to their roles in the auto supply chain ([14:25]).

• Netflix's Market Reaction: Following its earnings report, Netflix's stock surged by 1.3% during the session and 14% after hours ([14:30]).

• Bonds: The 10-year Treasury yield decreased by 4.57%, indicating investor response to current economic indicators ([14:30]).

Notable Quote:
Kai Ryssdal summarizes at [14:25]:
"The NASDAQ rose 126.6 points, the S&P 500 climbed 552 points, and Netflix saw a significant increase after its earnings report."

---

Conclusion

In "That’s a Headscratcher," Marketplace delves into a variety of pressing economic and environmental issues. From the complexities of implementing tariffs in the automotive industry to innovative climate solutions and positive trends in worker wages, the episode provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the multifaceted economic landscape. By featuring expert insights and real-life stories, Marketplace ensures that even those without a background in economics can grasp and appreciate the nuanced discussions shaping today’s world.

---

Note: Advertisements, introductions, and non-content segments have been excluded to focus solely on the core discussions and analyses presented in the episode.

Transcript

[A]

This Marketplace podcast is supported by Glassdoor, announcing the best places to work in 2025 as determined by anonymous reviews from the people who know Best Real employees. Did your company make the list this year? Learn who's leading the way in workplace culture and employee satisfaction and see who's hiring today. Then join the conversation in the Glassdoor community to plot your next career move and make the most of your work Life. [e-mail] BestPlaces to Work VantageScore is the fastest growing and most predictive credit score used by 8 out of the 10 largest banks and over 34 banks, fintechs and other companies nationwide. VantageScore is mandated for use for mortgages. Funded by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, VantageScore drives financial inclusions by scoring approximately 33 million more consumers than competitive credit scores. VantageScore Good for credit credit for good. Learn more at VantageScore.com on the program.

[B]

Today the quickly developing Trump economy Where and how to rebuild after wildfire and then Rocks. Just a bunch of rocks. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kai Rysdal. It is Tuesday today, the 21st of January. Good as always to have you along, everybody. The first of the changes that President Trump is going to be bringing to this economy were revealed last night. We're going to talk about energy later on in the program. We're still waiting on his promised immigration crackdowns. That is a labor story, remember. And the first slice of tariffs seems to be on track for February 1st. In the Oval Office last night, the president said he's looking at 25% import taxes on Canada and Mexico, which are not for nothing this country's two biggest trading partners. Countless categories of goods cross our mutual borders, but tariffs would spell particular trouble for one very important industry that has spread across all three countries. Marketplace's Sabri Benishore starts us off. We trade all kinds of things with Canada and Mexico.

[A]

Milk, timber, meat, minerals. But the biggest out of all of them is cars and their parts. James Rubenstein is professor emeritus of geography at Miami University. One third of the engines that are put in our still in our gas cars cross one of the borders. The automotive supply chain is draped across the three countries like a cluster of spider webs for electric cars, too. Take the Tesla Model 3. Technically, it's 100% assembled in the U.S. but the Model 3 has 20% of its content from Mexico. Jonathan Smoke is chief economist at Cox Automotive. No vehicle that's assembled in the U.S. has more than 70% of its content coming from the U.S. a transmission or an engine can have hundreds or thousands of individual parts that are used to make other parts in multiple places. David Gantz is a fellow at the Baker Institute for Public Policy.

[B]

It's not unusual for a part to go back and forth seven or eight times.

[A]

The auto industry is like this because that's how it's developed over 60 years.

[B]

Trade in autos and auto parts between Canada and the US has been pretty much duty free since 1965.

[A]

Mexico was added in 1994 with NAFTA. The supply chain is spread out in part because some factories are just better at doing certain things and those factories are in different places, but it also represents a negotiated sharing of production, says Rubenstein. Take the original free trade agreement with Canada. The deal was that Canada could keep what we might call a fair share.

[B]

Of production up there.

[A]

Introducing tariffs of 25% into this decades old byzantine trading system would get difficult and expensive very quickly, says Cox Automotive's Jonathan Smoke. Take wiring that might go from Mexico to the US to become a seat harness, then back to Mexico to become a seat, and then back to the US to actually get put in a car. So does that mean 25% gets applied every time it crosses? Unclear. But according to Wolf Research, 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico would increase the cost of the average new car by about $3,000. In New York, I'm Sabri Benishore for Marketplace.

[B]

You know that big gathering of global elites that happens every year in Switzerland? The World Economic Forum in Davos. Plenty of big parties, gorgeous scenery, usually limited substance, though this year's version is happening this week and the economic mood there is grim. Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, gave her big speech this morning.

[A]

In the last 25 years, Europe has relied on the rising tide of global trade to drive its growth. It has relied on cheap energy from Russia. And Europe has too often outsourced its own security. But those days are gone.

[B]

And that was not all.

[A]

The cooperative world order we imagined 25 years ago has not turned into reality. Instead, we have entered a new era of harsh geostrategic competition.

[B]

The competition on Wall street today. Not that harsh traders were just in a buy in mood. We will have the details when we do the numbers. The streaming wars are a changing and that change is being driven by the OG. Netflix reported earnings today. They did find 10 billion in revenue October through December, 19 million new subscribers. But this is likely to be the last time the company publicly releases that key and very proprietary piece of data streaming companies have to date touted how many viewers they have and how many of them they add every quarter, but no more. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab looks at what kind of data Netflix might likely brag about instead and what that says about the aforementioned streaming wars.

[A]

In one of Charlotte Howell's classes at Boston University, she gives students an assignment to reimagine streaming, and a bunch of them are like, how do we incentivize weekly releases? They are nostalgic for a way of viewing television that they barely remember. Turns out a lot of people want the anticipation of a date with their tv. And that's what Netflix has been leaning into as it becomes less about binge watching and more about live events. There was the Roast of Tom Brady and two NFL games on Christmas Day. It's branching out into new kinds of content, howell says. It's a shift that reflects how Netflix is thinking about growth. We are nearing or maybe have approached a kind of a saturation point of subscribers, or at least a turning point potentially. Netflix doesn't have a lot of room to grow subscribers. It already has more than 300 million, while Hulu, for comparison, has around 50 million. Michael Smith is a professor of information technology at Carnegie Mellon.

[B]

Netflix is trying to change the conversation towards the metrics that advantage them.

[A]

A few million new subscribers per quarter no longer looks impressive. Instead, Smith thinks Netflix will focus on different data points. How much revenue are we bringing in?

[B]

So that's what they want to talk about. And then the second thing they want.

[A]

To talk about is user engagement, because long term streaming profits are about how eyeballs translate into ad dollars, says Tim Hanlon, CEO of the Vertaire Group. So in terms of a growth story, that narrative is probably going to be more appealing to Wall Street, Hanlon says. As the industry consolidates, this kind of information is going to become more crucial. The reality is that it's still very much a black box, and I think Netflix has a long way to go to convince the media industry that the numbers are what they are and that they're accurate, which is increasingly important as investors search for clues about which companies are winning the streaming wars. I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.

[B]

So here's an idea for something else you can subscribe to. Actually, you can just follow us. Follow our podcast, would you? You can get it on the platform of your Choice, obviously, or marketplace.org.

[A]

The.

[B]

Weather forecast for the Los Angeles area for the next couple of days is better. Not too much wind, even a chance of a little bit of rain. We'll see if that actually shows up. But the thousands of people who lost their homes now have some decisions to make. Whether to rebuild first of all and then if so, how? So that they might stand a better chance of against the wildfire next time. Marketplace's Amy Scott has been talking to some people with hard earned experience.

[A]

When the Marshall fire tore through their neighborhood in Superior, Colorado near Boulder three years ago, Matteo Rebuschini was at home with his two kids.

[B]

Very quickly it became dark outside and.

[A]

The smoke started coming through the walls. They were rescued by a passing police officer, but their house was destroyed and he and his wife Melanie Glover, had to decide what to at first you.

[B]

Are in survival mode, right? So you're displaced. You have lost everything. You have a lot to process.

[A]

They thought about selling the lot and starting over somewhere else, but they loved the area. Right next to acres of open space but with easy access to Target and downtown. And then they found out their insurance would pay less if they didn't rebuild on the same site.

[B]

We basically knew that if you want to go back and live there, and.

[A]

That'S what we wanted, we need to build differently, we need to build better. Glover is an avid gardener and she'd noticed that while the fire had destroyed the big plastic planters in the yard, the dirt inside the pots was still sitting there intact. And I was like, I need to build a house out of earth because it doesn't burn. She found a local company that makes blocks out of compressed sand and clay. As we're talking on Zoom, she shows me what looks like a brick wall behind her covered with fire resistant plaster. So you've got two sets of these blocks with a space in the middle. That space in the middle is filled with perlite. It doesn't catch fire because the blocks are air dried, not fired. They have a low carbon impact. The company says they also reduce the energy needed to heat and cool the home by up to 75%. The new house also has triple pane windows and a ventless roof to prevent fire from getting inside. Sadly, there's not such thing as a fireproof house, but what we like to think of is loading the dice in our favor. Andrew Mitchler designs passive houses, low energy buildings that are also fire resilient. His firm designed several after the fire in Superior. The basic principles are making the home as airtight as possible. Make the home more simple so there's less places for embers to go in. Mitchler says it can cost up to 10% more to build this way though that's offset by the lower energy bills he got into building after his father lost his house to a firestorm in Oakland, California, in 1991. In the aftermath, people built much bigger houses, making it easier for wildfire to spread. We've seen a lot of these fires, one big house next to another big house. It's like dominoes. One leads to another, mitchler says. Ideally, whole communities would follow fire resilient building practices. But every house makes a difference. We remove one or two of those dominoes, meaning that we harden a few of those projects that that protects their neighbors. But rethinking where and how we build is difficult in the midst of recovery, says Carolyn Kuske with Environmental Defense Fund. And unless we do that work ahead of time, it's very hard to make those changes at the moment of rebuilding, when people really just want to get back to any degree of normalcy as fast as they can. After the Marshall fire in Colorado, officials waived stricter building codes for fire victims so they could rebuild more quickly and affordably. I think that most people did the best job that they could. Melanie Glover's family moved into their new Earth Block home last July, and she says it feels solid, quiet and safe in a way their previous drafty woodhouse never did. Would it survive another fire? I don't really want to say that. But she does feel confident that if it happened again, they would be safe until they could evacuate. I'm Amy Scott for Marketplace.

[B]

Coming up, so far we've removed probably.

[A]

At least 100 tons of CO2 from.

[B]

The atmosphere, with rocks, no less. But first, let's do the numbers. Dow industrials up 537points today, one and a quarter percent 44,025 for the blue chips. The NASDAQ rose 126.6 10% 19,756. The S&P 552 points to the good nine. 10% 6,449. We heard from Sabri earlier about Mexico and Canada in the US Auto industry. Magna International, based in Ontario, Canada, supplies auto parts to General Motors, Tesla and Ford, among others. It accelerated 1.1% today. Indianapolis based Allison Transmission, which makes parts for everything from emergency vehicles to school buses to tanks, charged up about a half percent today. Chris, who was telling us about Netflix and not reporting subscriber Data. Netflix up 1, 1 and 3 10% during the session, 14% after hours after those numbers came out, bonds were up Yield on the 10 year T note down 4.57%. You're listening to Marketplace.

[A]

Create an oasis with Thuma, a modern design company that specializes in furniture and home goods. By stripping away everything but the essential, Thuma makes elevated beds with premium materials and intentional details. Thuma combines the perfect balance of form, craftsmanship and functionality with over 17,000 five star reviews. The Thuma Bed Collection is proof that simplicity is the truest form of sophistication. Using the technique of Japanese joinery, pieces are crafted from solid wood and precision cut for a silent stable foundation. Assembly takes just 5ish minutes with no tools required, just one hand tightened screw made to last a lifetime with a warranty to match and Greenguard Gold certified for cleaner indoor air with clean lines, subtle curves and minimalist style. The Thuma Bed Collection is available in four signature finishes to match any design aesthetic. Headboard upgrades are available for customization as desired. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to Thuma Co Marketplace. That's T h u m a co Marketplace to receive $100 off your first bed purchase. Hi, this is Nicole from Camphill, Pennsylvania. I'm always surprised how much content Marketplace can pack into 30 minutes. Listening is part of my daily routine. I love the way they make the content digestible and relatable. For us folks who don't have a strong background in economics or business, join me by making a gift to Marketplace [e-mail] donate.

[B]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. You have heard perhaps that there's an energy emergency in this country. That's what the President says, even though the United States is pumping more crude oil right now than any other country on the planet, and by a good measure too now. Nevertheless, the White House wants more. Catch is, as Marketplaces Henry Epp reports that oil and gas investors are not exactly clamoring for a big expansion of domestic production.

[A]

There was a time when investors wanted to see oil companies invest a lot of money in more production. Back in the shale oil and fracking boom of the 2010s, there was this attitude and this outlook that if you weren't expanding drilling, then there was no way you're going to make any any money. Ellen R. Wald is a non resident fellow at the Atlantic Council. She says this was the case during much of President Trump's first term and so firms were producing more even at a loss, mostly because they were getting a lot of investment for that. Today, investors want something totally different. Tom Sang at Texas Christian University says, ever since oil prices recovered from the pandemic lockdowns, their message to oil companies.

[B]

Has been we've been supporting you for a long time. We want some reward now for doing that. You're going to pay us dividends and you're going to do share buybacks.

[A]

And obviously the formula for doing that is to have net positive cash flow. Translation, don't spend your money on new drilling projects. Give it to us so the Trump administration can go ahead and ease regulations and permitting requirements and open more federal land to oil and gas exploration, as the executive order promises. But, says Matt Smith at the analytics firm Kepler, we may not necessarily see the response in production because oil is just too cheap to justify drilling more wells. But Smith says all bets are off. If oil prices go up, that would be the thing that would drive on production and that would likely be in the shale plays, right? They're kind of short cycle investments, meaning more drilling in the Permian Basin in West Texas and New Mexico, not so much in Alaska or offshore. But higher prices wouldn't be ideal for consumers, Smith says. Right now, he says a around $75 a barrel is high enough for producers to expand their output incrementally, but low enough to keep prices down at the pump. I'm Henry app for MarketPL.

[B]

What I'm about to say is in fact true conventional wisdom to the contrary. Last year, worker pay outpaced inflation by a full percentage point. In 2023, pay beat prices by 9/10 of 1 percentage point. Even with prices still elevated as they are, that is good news for the American worker. Now, why is that happening? Here's Daniel Ackerman.

[A]

Elizabeth Heilig runs the West Newton Cinema in Newton, Massachusetts. Before the afternoon's films start to roll, she's doing one of the key chores around here. I'm tossing popcorn right now, which is an important part of the popcorn making procedure. Tossing makes the kernel y bits no one wants fall to the bottom. And while scooping popcorn in the front of house is still done by hand, Heilig says other employee tasks are getting automated thanks to some new tech upgrades. The theater management system, or tms, was literally installed on Wednesday of last week and we've been working the kinks out, so it is currently up and running. You know, fingers crossed the new software will let a single worker keep tabs on all six cinema screens at once. It will just eliminate a lot of running around and troubleshooting if we're aware of what's going on in every theater from a central location. That means more films running on time without more employees. In other words, a productivity gain, which is happening all over the economy right now, says Edward Hearn, lead labor economist at ukg. Labor productivity is not everybody's like leading metric they want to talk about because.

[B]

It'S kind of wonkish.

[A]

But I do think it really is kind of the engine that's driving things forward. Hearn says businesses have made lots of capital investment in recent years. Think new factory machines or cinema management software to help workers get more done. Plus, some firms are still letting employees work from home, meaning people don't have to commute into the office or they have to, you know, travel a lot or anything like that. That sort of saps their hours from doing actual productive work. And all this productivity is why wage growth keeps beating inflation, says Betsy Stevenson, a professor of economics at the University of Michigan. Real wage growth has to come from productivity growth because we're doing more with less, we get more in the end. American workers have been doing more with less for two straight years, says Stevenson. That's not the case in other countries, and that's been the miracle of the US Economy. Americans don't realize how much other countries coming out of the pandemic have had productivity slowdowns and therefore have had real wage declines. Stevenson says as long as productivity in the US Keeps climbing, workers can expect their paychecks to keep outpacing inflation. So maybe an extra trip to the movies this month. I'm Daniel Ackerman for Marketplace.

[B]

Okay, here's a story about climate change, steel, industrial byproduct, entrepreneurship, a little bit of thinking outside the box, and a dirt bike track. Here's Marketplace's Kaylee Wells.

[A]

This patch of northwest Ohio is a quiet, sparse grid of farms. Right in the middle of it, just seven miles south of the Michigan border, is Delta Raceway. It claims to be the state's premier motocross track, but now in the off season, it's under a dusting of snow. Sean McCauley isn't here for dirt bikes anyway. On this 20 degree day in January, he's here for the small rocks we're walking on under the snow. They've been spread out to cover the surrounding campground and pathways and he's interested in what those rocks are doing for him. So far we've removed probably as at least 100 tons of CO2 from the atmosphere and hope to remove over 1000 tons by the time the process is complete. McCauley's background is in geochemistry and he's created his own business around these rocks. They're a man made byproduct of steel production called slag, which just by lying here can capture and store carbon. That's where Macaulay's company, Alkali earth, comes in. What we're doing is accelerating the natural process that the earth uses to remove excess carbon dioxide with minerals. The company is a middleman connecting the steel mills that make this slag with the places that want to use it. So when you create steel, you can kind of think of it as like a massive soup. Yale university's Ella Milliken studies carbon storage. She says steel gets made by dumping all the reactive ingredients in a giant pot and making it really, really hot. The steel slag is essentially like, you can think of it as like this fat skim on top that you pour off that's just full of all of the reactive, really good stuff that you don't want in, like a steel bar. Then all that steel slag goes into a pit to cool. The steel mill crushes it up into these little rocks, and then they sit there as inconvenient piles of byproduct frequently destined for landfill. But Millikan says slag is great at capturing carbon. She works with Yale professor Noah Plinofsky. The steel slag has calcium in its most reactive form. That calcium is going to rapidly react with CO2, CO2 from the atmosphere and eventually convert it to calcium carbonate. The gravel esque slag rocks around the racetrack are covered with an ashy brown substance. That's the calcium carbonate. That's what the carbon turns into. The carbon is removed from the atmosphere and is irreversible on a thousand, even a million year time scale. Natural rocks capture carbon dioxide, too. Steel slag does it many times faster. And it's really cheap, actually. Sean McCauley of Alkali Earth says steel mills will pay people to take it away. McCauley and his company also subsidized the steel slag for buyers like Delta raceway by selling carbon credits to companies that have carbon reduction climate goals. Businesses that bought carbon credits to help pay for the slag on the delta raceway include shopify, the e commerce platform, and stripe, the digital payment firm. So it might be cheap, but the other thing about steel slag is that it's heavy and annoying to haul. There's over 1,200 truckloads that were delivered to the site. But the good thing is it was very close to the steel mill, and so the energy penalty wasn't that large in this case. For now, all of alkali earth's projects are in the midwest, where the steel mills are. But Macaulay plans to scale up his business and thinks he won't have a problem doing it. Right now we're the only ones we know of working with Steel Slag in this way. Now he's looking to China, India, Japan and Australia for his next expansion in Delta, Ohio. I'm Kaylee Wells for Marketplace.

[B]

This final note on the way out Today, what pays $45,000 a year with benefits, offers extensive travel opportunities opportunities and lets you enjoy the open road? If you said driving the Planter's Peanut Nut mobile, this job is for you. 26ft of a giant fiberglass peanut on wheels. Hormel, which I learned today owns Planters, is accepting applications. I think you do have to wear that Mr. Peanut costume, though. That is true. Our Digital and On Demand team includes Kerry Barber, Jordan Manji, Dylan Mietanen, Janet Wayne, Olga Oxman, Ellen Rolfus, Virginia K. Smith, and Tony Wagner. Francesca Levy is the executive Director of Digital and On Demand and I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow. Everybody, this is apm.

[A]

Hi, this is Michael from Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania. Marketplace is both enjoyable and extremely informative.

[B]

Kai and the reporters go out to all kinds of people in the community and they ask straight ahead questions like how are you holding up these days? It's very personal and as we listen we get a good sense of the challenges people face as they are trying.

[A]

To make it from day to day.

[B]

I listen to the Marketplace podcast every day and have been doing so for a number of years. It's a breath of fresh air that helps me understand the economic world better. Join me by making a gift to [e-mail] donate.