The contrarian jobs report

Summary

Marketplace: The Contrarian Jobs Report Hosted by Kai Ryssdal | Released March 8, 2025

In this episode of Marketplace, host Kai Ryssdal delves into the latest jobs report amidst the second Trump administration, exploring the nuanced state of the U.S. economy. Joined by experts Courtney Brown from Axios and Heather Long from the Washington Post, the discussion unpacks both encouraging signs and underlying concerns within the labor market, the impact of Trump’s trade policies, and broader economic implications reflected in the stock market and consumer confidence.

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1. Analyzing the Latest Jobs Report

Timestamp: 01:02 - 03:05

Kai Ryssdal opens the discussion by presenting the headline figures from the latest jobs report: 151,000 new jobs added and an unemployment rate of 4.1%. While these numbers appear robust on the surface, analysts Heather Long and Courtney Brown probe deeper into what these statistics truly indicate about the current economic landscape.

Heather Long highlights the sectors contributing to job growth, noting, “So much of our hiring lately has been in health care and we saw that again today. That was the biggest sector by far” (02:02). However, she raises concerns about potential cuts to Medicaid proposed by the administration, which could jeopardize future hiring in healthcare.

2. Rising Part-Time Employment and Labor Market Strain

Timestamp: 20:02 - 22:29

A key takeaway from the report is the significant increase in part-time workers who desire full-time positions. Heather Long remarks, “A lot of people are working part time who wish they could work full time. And that's usually one of those leading indicators of strain in the hiring market” (02:02). This trend suggests underlying weaknesses in the labor market, potentially signaling future economic challenges.

Economist Lonn from Penn State Abington adds, “Some of that may have to do with the decrease in the number of so-called discouraged workers... they're taking part time instead” (21:13). The rise in part-time employment reflects broader economic instability, with both workers and employers adopting more cautious approaches amidst uncertainty.

3. Trump’s Tariffs and Trade Policy: A Double-Edged Sword

Timestamp: 03:05 - 07:56

The conversation shifts to the administration’s fluctuating stance on tariffs, a source of significant economic uncertainty. Kai Ryssdal poses critical questions about the efficacy and impact of these policies, highlighting the administration's inconsistent approach to implementing tariffs.

Kevin Hassett, a chief economic adviser, responds, “You cannot conduct trade policy on a 30 day cycle... It's hard to operate a business this way” (03:37). Hassett elaborates on the negative repercussions for businesses, which struggle to plan and invest amidst the unpredictability of trade measures.

Heather Long underscores the broader implications, stating, “This makes it really hard to see any possible end game” (06:56). The lack of a clear strategy undermines business confidence and could stifle economic growth, as companies hesitate to expand or hire in such an uncertain environment.

4. Market Reactions and the Stock Market

Timestamp: 14:29 - 17:56

Despite the mixed signals from the jobs report, traders exhibited a positive outlook, with the Dow Industrial up by 222 points and the Nasdaq climbing 126 points (16:56). This seemingly contradictory movement is dissected by Ryssdal, who explains the complexities of interpreting market data alongside labor statistics.

The episode also spotlights Gap Incorporated as a success story in the retail sector. Under CEO Richard Dickson, Gap reported strong earnings, soaring nearly 20% (14:29). Ryssdal connects this resurgence to effective leadership and strategic marketing initiatives that have revitalized the brand, a welcome boost in an otherwise challenging economic climate.

5. The Gap’s Revival: A Retail Comeback

Timestamp: 14:29 - 16:48

Megan McCarty Carino reports on Gap’s remarkable turnaround, attributing the success to new CEO Richard Dickson’s strategic initiatives. Collaborations with designers, new ad campaigns featuring young musicians, and a nod to the brand’s heritage have reinvigorated consumer interest.

Retail consultant Sonja Lipinski observes, “Gap has been preparing for this for quite a long time” (15:45). The company's focus on affordable, everyday basics and minimal reliance on imports from high-tariff countries like Canada and Mexico have insulated it from some of the broader economic pressures, positioning Gap for sustained growth.

6. Economics in the NBA: The Luka Doncic Trade

Timestamp: 22:29 - 27:19

Transitioning to the sports world, the podcast explores the economic intricacies behind the blockbuster trade of Luka Doncic to the Lakers. Sonja Lipinski explains how the NBA’s salary cap and luxury tax structures have transformed player trades into complex transactions heavily influenced by economic regulations.

Lipinski states, “The NBA is a capped sport... It's very valuable if you can have good players on artificially cheap contracts” (23:38). The trade underscores the growing influence of economic strategies in sports management, where financial constraints and strategic planning govern team compositions as much as athletic performance.

7. Consumer Confidence and Personal Finance

Timestamp: 28:31 - End

Concluding the episode, the discussion touches on the sharp decline in consumer confidence, the lowest since 2021. Courtney Brown emphasizes the importance of understanding personal finance amidst economic uncertainty, highlighting resources like the Financially Inclined podcast for practical financial skills.

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Notable Quotes

• Heather Long (02:02): “So much of our hiring lately has been in health care and we saw that again today. That was the biggest sector by far.”

• Kevin Hassett (03:37): “You cannot conduct trade policy on a 30 day cycle... It's hard to operate a business this way.”

• Heather Long (06:56): “This makes it really hard to see any possible end game.”

• Jordan Sargent (14:34): “Gap is back in the cultural conversation.”

• Sonja Lipinski (23:38): “The NBA is a capped sport... It's very valuable if you can have good players on artificially cheap contracts.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Marketplace intricately weaves through the multifaceted landscape of the current U.S. economy, highlighting both the resilience and fragility reflected in employment data, trade policies, and market behaviors. The analysis underscores the importance of looking beyond headline numbers to understand the underlying economic currents shaping the future. Whether it’s the strategic revival of classic retail brands like Gap or the complex economics governing professional sports, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive overview of the factors influencing today’s economic environment.

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For more insights and detailed economic reporting, subscribe to the Marketplace newsletter here.

Transcript

[Kai Rysdal]

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[Courtney Brown]

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[Kai Rysdal]

In one respect, a completely normal week in this economy in most other respects not From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Friday today, 7th of March. Good as always to have you along, everybody. As we end week seven of the second Trump administration, where do you suppose things stand in this economy? Courtney Brown's at Axios, Heather Long's at the Washington Post. That is what we are going to talk about. Hey, you two.

[Heather Long]

Hi, Kai.

[Courtney Brown]

Hey, Kai.

[Kai Rysdal]

Heather Long, let me begin with you. The normal thing that happened this week in this economy is of course, the jobs report out today. 151,000 new jobs, 4.1% on the unemployment rate. You are a close reader of these reports. What, what was your favorite item? What stuck out to you?

[Heather Long]

Well, you're right. Overall, it looked pretty good. Like if you didn't know all this other stuff was going on this week, you think, hey, we were chugging along with a pretty good economy that's still adding jobs. The two things that I'm really paying attention to. So much of our hiring lately has been in health care and we saw that again today. That was the biggest sector by far. And obviously President Trump and House Republicans are talking about some pretty substantial cuts to Medicaid. I worry a lot about the future of health care hiring. The other thing that stood out to me, the one worrying part of the jobs report was a lot of people are working part time who wish they could work full time. And that's usually one of those leading indicators of strain in the hiring market. So I think we got to pay a Close eye attention on that. And obviously with everything going on, it's hard to envision that hiring picks up. It seems like things were looking a little, a little slower, a little weaker even before Elon Musk started taking a lot of cuts to the federal government.

[Kai Rysdal]

Courtney, let me ask you this. Among the not normal things that happen in this economy this week is the back and forth and the back and forth and then the back and forth again about tariffs and President Trump. I have two notes that I've written to myself here that I brought into the studio with me. One says, what kind of way is this to run an economy? And the other one says, it doesn't matter whether they're on or off. Businesses already have to deal with them as if they're on. So you pick which question you want to answer.

[Kevin Hassett]

I think I'm going to try to tackle both of those things.

[Richard Dickson]

All right.

[Kai Rysdal]

Shows only half an hour long. Yo, come on.

[Kevin Hassett]

I know, I know. You know, I talked to someone who is obsessed with the usmca, knows the trade path that Trump negotiated in his first term very well, and I called him this week and he simply said that you cannot conduct trade policy on a 30 day cycle, which has been kind of the crux of trade policy in the Trump era. As you say, it's hard to operate a business this way. When you don't know what to do, you kind of don't do anything. And that's not, that's not great for the economy when no one is doing anything, hiring, you know, thinking of ways to expand their business.

[Kai Rysdal]

Okay, but wait, there is that saying that, you know, is something that can't. I don't even know what it is, but it's something like things go on until they can't continue and then they stop. Right. And, and I don't know that we have any sense, Courtney, that this is going to stop. I mean, he was talking about 250% dairy tariffs today on Canada.

[Kevin Hassett]

Yes, it is getting hard to keep track at this point, but you're right, he, there was something like a reprieve yesterday with the tariffs that were on for a bit on Canada and Mexico. And then today in the Oval Office again, he was kind of beating down Canada and threatening to impose tariffs on lumber and dairy. And by the way, there's an investigation, a Section 232 investigation on lumber already underway. It's all very confusing and hard to keep track of, but I think the easiest way to put it is that it's very confusing and you're as you say there's no guarantee that any tariff or rollback of tariff is going to stick.

[Kai Rysdal]

So, Heather, Long a piece you wrote last couple of days, I apologize. It slips in my mind talking about the potential for a Trump recession. Here's question, though. It used to be the presidents had a grace period before the economy became theirs, Right. And, and you know, eventually it became the Obama economy, the Bush economy, what have you. Donald Trump is now the American economy. Right.

[Heather Long]

It's going to be harder and harder for him. I know he's they're trying to blame Biden for any downturn or even for the stock market declines this week. But just given how much he's done in these first seven weeks and given how much he likes to to that he's done, it's going to be harder and harder for him to distance himself from this record. And I think you're right. You know, out of every, all the chaos of this week, what we're going to look back and remember is this is the week that Wall street began to actually believe a recession is possible and a recession due to Trump's tariffs, not due to some weird other factor, but due to this president's policies. And that was a big momentum shift.

[Kai Rysdal]

Well, keep going with that one for a minute with the acknowledgement, Heather, that the stock market is not the economy. Why does it matter? Why is it significant to you that this is the week that Wall street.

[Heather Long]

Rolled over because you started to see this belief that there is no clear off ramp. What you and Courtney were just talking about, not only do the tariffs on again, off again, but there's just no clarity about why we're doing this. And that makes it really hard to see any possible end game. I mean, today in this discussion with Canada, right, we're going to suddenly renegotiate.

[Kai Rysdal]

The border with Canada, literally the border, the boundary line.

[Heather Long]

Right. So that's not going to happen. And that's what makes it really difficult to see how can we make a deal when there's no concrete deal to be made here.

[Kai Rysdal]

Courtney, a word here about the Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Besant, who has said a bunch of stuff this week. He said yesterday the economy needs a detox from all this government spending. He said in essence, we're not really looking at the market. He said it seems to be rolling over a bit. What do you make of nominally this chief economic adviser to the president?

[Kevin Hassett]

I think those comments came in the morning and a couple hours later there was a very different tone from White House officials talking to reporters and of course, Trump himself talking in the Oval Office. It seemed like in the morning it was not their economy, but they saw the jobs report and seemed to be pleased with what they saw. And so it was their economy. The head of the National Economic Council, Kevin Hassett, said that there were clear signs of Trump's impact in the jobs report. Of course, he was citing the job, the job cuts of the federal government that were in the report. So it's, it seems like Secretary Besant was trying to distance the Trump administration from the state of the economy. But they got data they like, and so maybe they're trying to bring themselves a little bit closer to it.

[Kai Rysdal]

For now, we should point out her. Courtney, just to be on the record, and really quickly, the jobs report that we got today does not reflect actually what has been happening with the federal workforce in full.

[Kevin Hassett]

Exactly.

[Courtney Brown]

But.

[Kevin Hassett]

Yes, exactly. And, you know, they also, they also tried to point out that the manufacturing sector looked very healthy this month. And of course, if his trade policy goes on, it could very much go the, the other way. So, yeah, there are a lot of things they're trying to hang on Trump that are not necessarily true.

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah.

[Heather Long]

I hope they don't come to regret that. Detox economy is the new. Yeah, the new euphemism for downturn.

[Kai Rysdal]

We shall see. That was Heather Long at the Washington Post. Courtney Brown at Axios on a Friday. Thanks. You too.

[Courtney Brown]

Thanks, guy.

[Kai Rysdal]

Wall Street Today traders decided they were in a good mood, I suppose, at the end of a tumultuous week. Details, numbers when we get there. So the jobs report, as we were talking about, uneventful, really. Pretty close to expectations. No huge surprises. However, comma, as often happens, you dig in a bit and you find some stuff. As we mentioned, the unemployment rate rose slightly last month, 4.1%, because the number of unemployed people went up while the number of people in the labor force went down. So far, so good, Right? Meanwhile, the number of people employed in February fell by 588,000. But at the same time, US employers added 151,000 jobs to their payrolls. And that's where the math gets a little tricky. Right? Employment went down. The number of jobs, though, went up. Good thing we've got Mitchell Hartman then, huh?

[Mitchell Hartman]

We call it the monthly jobs report, but actually it's two reports mashed together by the Bureau of Labor Statistics based on two surveys the agency does each month. And they can disagree because they go to different sources for different information. The household survey asks people whether they're working or looking for work. The payroll survey asks employers how many jobs they have, and that survey is a lot bigger, says Dori Allard at the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[Courtney Brown]

121,000 businesses and government agencies, 631,000 individual work sites.

[Kai Rysdal]

And there is a lot more stability.

[Courtney Brown]

In those estimates than there is in.

[Kevin Hassett]

The household survey, which is relying on interviews from approximately 60,000 households.

[Mitchell Hartman]

In the household survey, a change in employment is only considered statistically significant if it's above 600,000. Economist Joe Brusuelis at consulting firm RSM says February's employment decline was big, but not that big.

[Kai Rysdal]

Given the large standard error inside that report, we really want to be cautious about overreacting.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Elise Gould at the Economic Policy Institute agrees. For a single month, the household survey's less reliable.

[Courtney Brown]

When the surveys tell a different story. We gotta take the payroll survey, give that more weight because of the sample size.

[Mitchell Hartman]

But she says, over time, the household.

[Courtney Brown]

Survey can't be ignored. Sometimes the household survey is better at predicting changes in the business cycle. It might find softening sooner.

[Mitchell Hartman]

The survey has been sending warning signals about long term unemployment, says Joe Bruce.

[Kai Rysdal]

There's a large number of people who've been unemployed for six months or more.

[Mitchell Hartman]

But the survey is telling a different story about America's least educated workers, says Jane Oates at news site Working Nation.

[Courtney Brown]

An increase in the labor market participation of people with less than high school and a drop in their unemployment.

[Mitchell Hartman]

As for the current divergence between the payroll and household surveys, Dori Allard at BLS says give it a few months.

[Kai Rysdal]

Over the long term, the two series do tend to track well together, with.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Overall trends pointing in the same general direction. I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Right up there in the pantheon of easiest ticker symbols ever is Gap Incorporated, parent company of Old Navy banana Republic Athleta and its namesake Gap ticker symbol. Of course, G, A P and shares got a nice bump today after reporting strong earnings up almost 20%. Those shares were. You know, Gap's been selling close for more than 50 years, but it has been a rough couple of decades. So in 2023, the company brought on a new CEO, Richard Dickson, who, among other things, had helped revitalize Barbie at Mattel. And Gap sales did start to turn around last year, despite it being a not so friendly environment for discretionary spending. Marketplace's Megan McCarty Carino has more. Now on the comeback of an American classic.

[Jordan Sargent]

Gap might not have its own blockbuster movie like Barbie, but according to CEO.

[Kai Rysdal]

Richard Dixon, Gap is back in the cultural conversation.

[Jordan Sargent]

From collaborations with up and coming designers to a new ad campaign featuring emerging young musicians.

[Courtney Brown]

There's some really great momentum around the brand, which seems to be catching the attention of the consumer.

[Jordan Sargent]

Retail consultant Sonja Lipinski at Alex Partners says Gap has also leaned into its heritage with callbacks to its iconic dancing commercials, the latest featuring film and TV star Parker Posey.

[Courtney Brown]

They're really kind of riding this trend that hasn't quite gone away yet, but this whole 90s trends and 90s nostalgia.

[Jordan Sargent]

It helps that wide leg jeans from the retailer's heyday have been back in style. But Gap brands like Old Navy also have a durable advantage, says analyst David Swartz at Morningstar.

[Kai Rysdal]

People are concerned about inflation and high prices and everything. And Old Navy is known for having relatively low priced stuff that's generally good quality.

[Jordan Sargent]

And those prices aren't likely to be affected much by tariffs. Gap imports less than 1% of its components from Canada and Mexico and less than 10% from China.

[Kai Rysdal]

They've been preparing for this for some.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Time because this has been discussed now.

[Kai Rysdal]

For quite a long time.

[Jordan Sargent]

Mark Cohen, the former director of retail studies at Columbia Business School, worked for gap in the 70s, back in its.

[Kai Rysdal]

Go go days when it really was skyrocketing.

[Jordan Sargent]

He says if it wants to maintain this momentum after decades of struggle, the company will have to do more than splashy marketing.

[Kai Rysdal]

It has to have an extraordinarily powerful five pocket proposition.

[Jordan Sargent]

Whether those five pockets are in denim or khaki pants, he says Gap needs to deliver on the affordable, everyday basics consumers are looking for. I'm Megan McCarty Carino for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Does anybody actually use that fifth pocket though, really?

[Sonja Lipinski]

Anyway, coming up, good players on artificially.

[Kai Rysdal]

Cheap contracts, the financialization of the NBA. But first lets do the numbers. Dow industrials up 222 points today, about a half percent, 42,801. The Nasdaq climbed 126 points, about 7, 10%. 18,196. The S&P 500 added 31. That's points. The percentage is about a half percent, 57 and 70. For the five days gone by, the Dow dipped 2.4%. The Nasdaq slid 3.4% S&P 500, down about 3 and a 10. Megan McCarty Carino was just telling us about Gap's big turnaround. Shares spiked, as I said, almost 20%. 18 and 8. 10% if you want to be precise. Elsewhere in retail, Urban Outfitters shrank 1%. Ralph Lauren or Lauren, I can never remember slumped 2 1/4 of 1%. Bonds fell. Yield on the 10 year T note increased to 4.31%. I'm sticking with Lauren. You're listening to Marketplace.

[Courtney Brown]

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[Kai Rysdal]

If you want to be savvy about the economy, the Marketplace newsletter is just what you need. Every Friday you'll get explainers and analysis that makes sense of everything from the moving markets to grocery prices. No jargon, no hype, just smart takes delivered to your inbox. Sign up today at marketplace.org/subscribe.

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[Kai Rysdal]

I'm Kai Rysdal. As Heather alluded to up at the top of the program, there were some details in that jobs report this morning that suggest the labor market might be softening just a touch. To wit, the number of people who said basically that they're stuck in part time jobs when they'd really prefer full time work was up about 10%. Marketplace's Kimberly Adams takes it from there.

[Courtney Brown]

The Bureau of Labor statistics actually has six different ways of measuring unemployment, named memorably U1 through U6. The official unemployment rate, that's U3, and it came in today at 4.1%.

[Sonja Lipinski]

But they also have a broader measure which includes discouraged workers, marginally attached workers.

[Kai Rysdal]

And people who are involuntarily working part time.

[Courtney Brown]

And it's called U6, says Jeremy Reynolds, a Purdue sociologist who studies work in organizations.

[Sonja Lipinski]

And that measure has risen to 8%, and that's the highest level that that measure has been at since 2021.

[Courtney Brown]

Then there was that big increase in the number of people working part time who wish they could work full time. Lonn is a professor of economics at Penn State Abington.

[Kai Rysdal]

The jump in part time for economic reasons was surprising. It had been creeping up in the last few months, but it really jumped.

[Courtney Brown]

Up, up by 460,000 people in February, bringing the total to just under 5 million. Some of that, says golden, may have to do with the decrease in the number of so called discouraged workers, people who have given up on looking for a job that was down almost 130,000 last month and when they come back.

[Kai Rysdal]

Into the workforce, indeed, they're looking either for part time, which would be voluntary, or maybe full time opportunities that are not there. So they're taking part time instead.

[Courtney Brown]

One reason for all the part time work is the instability in the broader economy.

[Kai Rysdal]

People are taking a more cautious approach.

[Richard Dickson]

To looking for a job, and employers.

[Kai Rysdal]

Are taking a more cautious approach when it comes to hiring and which positions they're hiring for.

[Courtney Brown]

Because with everything going on, it's almost impossible to predict what's ahead for the job market. In Washington, I'm Kimberly Adams from Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

If you are even a tangentially attached sports fan, you probably saw all the hullabaloo about the blockbuster trade that sent Dallas Mavericks star Luka Doncic to the Lakers. If you're not a sports fan at all, trust me, it was a big deal. But underneath that player swap is a byzantine network of regulations with a dash of moneyball thrown in for good measure that has transformed the sport. The explanation at hand was in the Atlantic the other day, an article headlined How Economists Took over the NBA. Jordan Sargent had the byline. He usually covers music and entertainment devoted basketball fan on the side.

[Sonja Lipinski]

The NBA is a capped sport. It has a salary cap and a luxury tax and some other aspects that prevent, limit or severely incentivize teams to not spend as much money as they can. And so things can get very complicated and you don't need to just know statistical Basketball sports terms anymore. You have to understand aspects of the salary cap and aspects of economics in ways that you just didn't as a casual fan in previous eras of the sport.

[Kai Rysdal]

You talk about the collective bargaining agreement, the CBA, the 600, and I think it's 76 page document, and what that has done to, as you mentioned, salary cap and all that, and. And it has made draft picks sort of the commodity in the NBA of today. Talk about that a little bit.

[Sonja Lipinski]

Yeah, you know, the NBA, like all the major sports, artificially deflates the salaries of rookies as teams pay their best players a lot of money. You know, you're playing a LeBron James, 50 or $60 million a year. It becomes very valuable if you can have good players on artificially cheap contracts. You know, you see in a lot of trades these days, five, six draft picks in one trade for one player.

[Kai Rysdal]

How did a music A and R guy come up with this story?

[Sonja Lipinski]

I'll tell you, I'm a fan of basketball. I listen to a lot of podcasts, read a lot about basketball, and I just noted a shift over the years about how often you were hearing about the CBA and about which team could do what because of this salary cap thing or they can't trade this pick. You know, I'm a fan of the Miami Heat. What can the Miami Heat trade? That's not something I could just tell.

[Kai Rysdal]

You off the top of my head. You know, it's so interesting. It's so interesting. You said what can they trade instead of who can they trade?

[Sonja Lipinski]

Exactly, exactly. And it is because teams don't really look at it necessarily as who these days. It's more what meaning, what picks do you have, what assets? One of the things that they've instituted into their structure that other sports don't is this idea of salary matching, meaning if you trade a player that makes $10 million, then you need to get back a player or a group of players that equal that amount of money.

[Kai Rysdal]

Is that the rule really? What a dumb rule.

[Sonja Lipinski]

And they actually made it even tighter this year. You know, you start to have these very narrow passageways for two teams to make a deal because you have to match all these things up.

[Kai Rysdal]

I was going to ask you, just as the ender, whether there's a way for the league to get out of this place where draft picks have become the commodity, but really is this a bad thing for the league and do they need to get out of it?

[Sonja Lipinski]

I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing, although there's a lot of concern right now about something that was instituted recently in the newest CPA that puts even harsher penalties.

[Kai Rysdal]

So wait, so wait. Sorry. They're tying themselves in more knots.

[Sonja Lipinski]

100%. Yeah. And you know, like the most shocking trade really probably in NBA history, which just recently took place when Luka Doncic got traded to the, to the Lakers. The, the reasoning the Mavericks gave was that they didn't want to give Luka the most expensive contract in the history of the NBA, which he going to get and was going to be entitled to because they, they were worried about his body breaking down and being at that level of salary and investing in him comes with all these penalties in terms of what you can do with your roster. Otherwise your picks get artificially sent down to the bottom of the draft. There's all these penalties for spending the amount of money that they felt they were going to have to spend to retain him. You know, I think there's a lot of uncertainty from the fan, media and team perspective, it seems like, about what it's going to mean for building, building a basketball team and retaining the best players in the sport when you know they're bringing the hammer down in various ways on teams that spend a lot of money.

[Kai Rysdal]

That sound you hear is James Naismith turning over in his grave. Jordan Sargent wrote a piece in the Atlantic, the title of which is how the Economists Took over the NBA. Jordan, thanks a bunch. Appreciate your time.

[Sonja Lipinski]

Appreciate that. Thank you.

[Kai Rysdal]

This final note on the way out today in which I'm just gonna say people need some downtime, you know, the president of the Nasdaq said in a blog post today that his exchange is working with regulators to offer 24 hour trading Monday through Friday. Yes, you can already trade after hours, 4pm to 8pm and pre market as well, but those are limited. Nasdaq though, says demand for US equities trading is really, really strong. I get it, but life's already pretty busy, no? Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargoli. Donna Tam is the executive editor. Neil Scarborough is the vice president and general manager. And I'm Kyle Rysdal. Have yourselves a great weekend, everybody. We'll see you back here on Monday. All right. This is APM.

[Courtney Brown]

Consumer confidence had its sharpest monthly decline since 2021, which means we're all in our feels about money. And while uncertainty is the only constant these days, it's also a great reason to get serious about understanding personal finance. I'm Janelie Espinal Host of Financially Inclined, a podcast from Marketplace that makes learning about money simple. Learn about practical skills like negotiating job offers, dealing with money in friendship and love, entrepreneurship and student loans. Get serious about your money and build a life you've always dreamed of. Of Listen to Financially Inclined wherever you get your podcast.