The cost of Christmas past

Summary

Marketplace: "The Cost of Christmas Past" – Detailed Summary

Introduction In the November 29, 2024 episode of Marketplace, host Kimberly Adams delves into the economic intricacies surrounding the holiday season. Titled "The Cost of Christmas Past," the episode explores consumer behavior during Black Friday, the potential impact of newly announced tariffs, gas price fluctuations, international consumer trends in China, and the enduring issue of holiday debt. The discussion features insights from Jordan Holman of The New York Times and Rachel Siegel of The Washington Post, along with contributions from other experts and correspondents.

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Black Friday and the Holiday Shopping Season

Retail Landscape and Consumer Behavior Kimberly Adams opens the episode by setting the scene for Black Friday, highlighting its significance as the official start to the holiday shopping season. Despite the shift from traditional in-store chaos to online shopping, Black Friday remains a pivotal period for retailers.

Flattening Peak Sales Jordan Holman explains the evolving nature of Black Friday sales:

"For retailers, Black Friday is still so very important. It used to be this peak. It's now more of a hill... it's still a big day... [and] it's important to set the tone for these next four weeks before Christmas." [01:15]

Holman notes that retailers have been promoting deals since early November, which has leveled out sales peaks traditionally associated with Black Friday alone.

Consumer Spending Amid Inflation Rachel Siegel addresses concerns about consumer spending in the face of persistent inflation:

"There is a bit of a bifurcation... lower income brackets... just aren't able to keep spending... [while] wealthier Americans... continue to spend." [02:08]

Siegel emphasizes that while overall holiday sales might rise, underlying disparities mean that lower-income consumers are experiencing financial strain without significantly impacting the aggregate sales figures.

Jordan further elaborates on this point, indicating that:

"Holiday sales will increase as much as 3.5%... largely because middle-income Americans... are still able to spend." [03:08]

He adds that the struggles of lower-income consumers are often masked by the robust spending of wealthier individuals, citing Dollar General's experience as an example.

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Potential Tariffs on Imports

Trump's Tariff Announcement The episode shifts focus to international trade tensions, with Rachel Siegel discussing President-Elect Trump's declaration to impose new tariffs on imports from China, Mexico, and Canada:

"Legally he has a lot of open doors to be able to act around Congress to use that executive authority." [04:23]

Siegel explains that Trump intends to leverage executive authority to enact these tariffs swiftly, drawing parallels to his first administration's approach.

Retailers' Concerns and Preparations Jordan Holman discusses the apprehension among retailers regarding the potential tariffs:

"If tariffs do go into place, that would likely result in higher prices for shop shoppers." [05:46]

He notes that companies like Walmart and Five Below are already strategizing for possible price increases. Additionally, consumer behaviors, such as stockpiling high-demand imported goods, signal rising anxiety among shoppers about future price hikes.

Rachel Siegel adds a layer of complexity by mentioning potential violations of existing trade agreements, such as USMCA, which could complicate the implementation of new tariffs.

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Gasoline Prices and Market Dynamics

Current Gas Price Trends Elizabeth Troval provides an update on gasoline prices, which average around $3 per gallon—a 7% decrease from the previous year and the lowest since 2020. Several factors contribute to this decline:

• Crude Oil Prices: Andrew Gross from AAA notes that oil prices are a major determinant of gas prices. With West Texas Intermediate trading below $70 a barrel, prices remain favorable.

"Anything under 80 is really ideal for keeping gasoline prices from surging higher." [09:26]

• Refining Capacity and Seasonality: Increased refining capacity and the seasonal shift from summer to winter gasoline blends—less expensive due to reduced smog prevention needs—also play significant roles.

"After Labor Day, prices tend to slide... winter blend gasolines require slightly less refining." [10:35]

Stabilizing Factors Despite geopolitical tensions, global demand remains manageable, allowing the market to absorb minor supply disruptions without significant price spikes.

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International Perspective: Chinese Consumer Spending

China's Consumption Growth Amid Property Slump Jennifer Pak reports from Shanghai on China's efforts to stimulate consumer spending through government subsidies and incentives:

"Government subsidies amount to 15%, even 20% off for furniture, home appliances. That's a huge discount." [12:27]

These measures have led to a notable increase in retail sales, which grew by 4.8% in October, surpassing analyst expectations. However, the ongoing property market slump poses a risk to sustained consumer confidence.

Real Estate Challenges Yan Yuejin from eHouse highlights the severe decline in housing prices—averaging a 30% drop since 2021—and the government's response in easing home-buying regulations:

"Government rules on home buying are the loosest they've been in history... fewer barriers on who can buy condos." [13:27]

While initiatives to boost real estate demand show promise, high unemployment rates and ongoing economic uncertainties continue to dampen overall consumer sentiment.

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Holiday Debt and Financial Strain

Rising Holiday Debt Among Americans Kimberly Adams introduces the issue of holiday debt, noting that nearly 50% of Americans are still paying off last year's holiday expenses—a significant increase from previous years. Samantha Fields from Marketplace explores the contributing factors:

Cultural Pressure and Spending Habits Experts like Ayelet Fischbeck from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business discuss how pervasive advertising, especially during holidays, pressures consumers to spend:

"Everything is influencing us to buy, to consume... there is a lot of advertisement that tells us that this is the right way to celebrate by buying a lot of gifts." [19:20]

Credit Card Debt Concerns Ted Rossman from Bankrate emphasizes the long-term nature of credit card debt:

"Six in 10 people with credit card debt have had it for at least a year. That's up 10 percentage points from three years ago." [19:58]

With average credit card interest rates exceeding 20%, many consumers face escalating debts that are difficult to manage, reflecting broader financial vulnerabilities exacerbated by inflation and previous economic challenges.

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Historical Perspective: College Dormitory Evolution

Architectural History of Dormitories In an engaging segment, Carla Yanni, a professor of architectural history at Rutgers New Brunswick, provides a retrospective on the evolution of American college dormitories. She traces their development from multi-functional buildings in small colleges to modern skyscraper dorms designed for efficiency and collaboration.

Social Implications and Inclusivity Yanni also touches on the social dynamics of dormitory living, highlighting historical exclusions and the gradual integration of diverse student populations:

"The history of who could live in college housing and who could not is fraught and complicated... often don't tell you that the person had to live in a boarding house." [22:00]

She underscores the role of residence halls in fostering networking and personal development, which remain valued aspects of the American educational experience.

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Changing Shopping Trends: Rise of Secondhand Markets

Shift Towards Secondhand Shopping Kimberly Adams highlights emerging trends in holiday shopping, particularly the growing popularity of secondhand marketplaces. A survey from OfferUp reveals that:

"About 68% of shoppers plan to spend at least some of their holiday budget buying secondhand." [26:07]

This shift is driven by increased environmental awareness, economic considerations, and a growing acceptance of pre-owned gifts among consumers.

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Market Performance and Economic Indicators

Stock Market Overview The episode provides a snapshot of the stock market post-Thanksgiving:

• Dow Jones Industrial Average: +188 points (+4.10%) to 44,910
• Nasdaq: +157 points (+8.10%) to 19,218
• S&P 500: +33 points (+6.10%) to 60,32

Retail stocks like Amazon and Walmart saw significant gains, while semiconductor-related stocks also rose amid expectations of moderated Biden administration sanctions on semiconductor sales to China.

Bond Market Movements The yield on the 10-year Treasury note fell to 4.19%, indicating a rise in bond prices as investors adjust to the economic outlook.

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Conclusion

Kimberly Adams wraps up the episode by emphasizing the complex interplay between consumer behavior, retail strategies, international trade policies, and broader economic indicators that shape the cost of Christmas. The discussions underline ongoing challenges such as inflation, debt, and market uncertainties, while also highlighting adaptive trends like secondhand shopping and strategic corporate responses to potential tariffs.

Listeners are encouraged to consider these multifaceted dynamics as they navigate their holiday expenditures and financial planning.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Jordan Holman [01:15]: "For retailers, Black Friday is still so very important. It used to be this peak. It's now more of a hill... it's still a big day... [and] it's important to set the tone for these next four weeks before Christmas."

• Rachel Siegel [02:08]: "There is a bit of a bifurcation... lower income brackets... just aren't able to keep spending... [while] wealthier Americans... continue to spend."

• Rachel Siegel [04:23]: "Legally he has a lot of open doors to be able to act around Congress to use that executive authority."

• Jordan Holman [05:46]: "If tariffs do go into place, that would likely result in higher prices for shop shoppers."

• Andrew Gross [09:26]: "Anything under 80 is really ideal for keeping gasoline prices from surging higher."

• Rachel Siegel [07:13]: "Housing continues to be the thing that economists and policymakers keep going back to as a thing that is just not budging."

• Ted Rossman [19:58]: "Six in 10 people with credit card debt have had it for at least a year. That's up 10 percentage points from three years ago."

• Carla Yanni [22:00]: "The history of who could live in college housing and who could not is fraught and complicated... often don't tell you that the person had to live in a boarding house."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the "The Cost of Christmas Past" episode, providing a coherent narrative for those who haven't listened to the full transcript.

Transcript

[Kimberly Adams]

It's Black Friday. So, you know, we're going to talk about shopping and the almighty American consumer, plus Chinese consumers as well. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Washington, D.C. i'm Kimberly Adams in for Kai Rysdal. It's Friday, the 29th of November. Good to have you along. The sales may have started weeks ago and the decorations have been out for ages. But today, Black Friday is supposedly the official start to the holiday shopping season. And even though nowadays more of us may be swiping in our soft pants rather than scrambling for a TV in a big box store, it's still a very big weekend for retailers. So for more on this and a look back at the economic week that was, I'm joined by Jordan Holman, a business reporter at the New York Times, and Rachel Siegel, an economics reporter at the Washington Washington Post. Welcome, ladies.

[Jordan Holman]

Hi, Kaylee.

[Kimberly Adams]

So, Jordan, let's start with you. Since retail is your thing, how is Black Friday looking this year? What were you hearing from folks heading into the weekend?

[Jordan Holman]

So for retailers, Black Friday is still so very important. It used to be this peak. It's now more of a hill, as executives would describe it. So they still have to staff all of their stores, make sure all the merchandise is there. But the reality is they have been putting pushing deals since the beginning of November. And it's just kind of flattens out the day. It is still a big day that you're going to see the 60 off or 50% off and you're going to have higher foot traffic in store. And it kind of now is just important to set the tone for these next four weeks that they have before.

[Kimberly Adams]

The Christmas holiday, a shorter shopping season than usual. Usual. And Rachel, you know, I feel like I've been hearing chatter all year that consumers are going to finally just be over the inflation and actually pull back on spending. Any sense of that heading into this shopping season?

[Rachel Siegel]

You know, it's really something we've been talking about for what feels like years. Right. What is we're going to start to see this frustration around inflation, you know, price tags that still have that kind of sticker shock. When are we going to start to see it translate into consumer behavior? And, you know, surprisingly, it's not something that is expected to yank back sales this year either. But I think what's important to note is that there's a bit of a bifurcation or almost like a split screen here, Right where we clearly saw in the last election that inflation still does feel very visceral to people. People are still Frustrated that prices don't look like what they did before the pandemic. And also in many cases, it's the lower income brackets that just aren't able to just bite the bullet and keep spending. You're seeing that continued spending among wealthier Americans, people with more in their budgets. And increasingly there's a gulf between the two that powers a lot of that spending that we just continue to see.

[Kimberly Adams]

So then, Jordan, what does that mean that people are actually going to do, especially those lower income consumers, this, this holiday?

[Jordan Holman]

So the overall picture for holiday sales is that it will increase as much as 3.5% according to the National Retail Federation. I think Rachel's making a really good point. Like right now, that number will increase largely because middle income Americans are, are still have enough money to spend, are in a good job situation, and because lower income Americans aren't making up so much of that percentage, it's hidden. So there is still a lot of pain, I think, about Dollar General. For their last earnings report, they said that they can see those last five days of the month that their sales go down because their customer, who makes an average of 35k a year, just has no more money to spend. So there is a lot of strain there, but it just might not show up in this bigger number when you say, oh, it was a great Black Friday weekend.

[Kimberly Adams]

Right, because all the wealthier people are spending and juicing those numbers. Rachel, there's another story that was big this week, which is that President Elect Trump said that he is going to impose new tariffs on all imported goods from China, Mexico and Canada. And you wrote kind of about the question that people often ask about this. Can he do that by himself?

[Rachel Siegel]

We're back to those questions. Yeah. And you know, in his social media post, Trump said very clearly this was something he planned to do as one of his many first executive orders. He said he would, quote, sign all necessary documents to make it happen. And this was a playbook that he also leaned on quite heavily during his first administration. And it really turns out that legally he has a lot of open doors to be able to act around Congress to use that executive authority. I think it's something that we're seeing his advisors around him really embrace too, really the, you know, testing the limits of what his executive authority could look like. And there are a lot of laws passed over the past few decades that on tariffs especially, give him that kind of authority to move forward. Now, some of this will end up coming down to what exactly the tariff looks like. You know, what exactly it is that goes into effect on Inauguration Day, if that is indeed what ends up happening. But the expectation is that this is not something that will immediately be held up in court or immediately be challenged, and that if he intends to follow through on these kinds of policies, that he could be able to push forward in that way.

[Kimberly Adams]

Jordan, I think we all remember the first Trump administration and these sort of big policy announcements via social media post. But I mean, this threat of tariffs really has retailers and consumers worried. Are you seeing that show up in terms of preparations for this?

[Jordan Holman]

Yeah. You have heard retail executives. I'm thinking about Walmart, Steve Madden talking about that if tariffs do go into place, that would likely result in higher prices for shop shoppers because they're also, they, they have experience of this. Seven years ago they saw this, they had to change their business, I think about 5 below, which their whole thing is $5 and less. Back in 2019, they said we might have to consider going up above $5. So companies are already running the numbers, thinking about what it could mean on the consumer side. When I go on TikTok, I already see people saying they're planning on stockpiling or getting that new iPhone now or getting, or getting a really nice imported jacket or whatnot. Just in the anticipation, even though the details are still being worked out and Rachel, switch gears.

[Kimberly Adams]

Oh, go ahead.

[Rachel Siegel]

No, I was going to say, you know, another thing to be worked out is there's a lot of reason to think that this would violate existing trade agreements too. Right. Namely United States, Mexico, Canada agreement, usmca, which Trump negotiated during his first term. So just under the umbrella of can he do that? I think that's an important piece, too.

[Kimberly Adams]

Rachel, sticking with you. One of the other things we got this week was PCE, the Fed's preferred measure of inflation, up to 2.3%, very close to the Fed's target. What do you think this means for Fed actions moving forward, especially since one of the stickier parts has been like housing prices?

[Rachel Siegel]

Yeah, they're close, but they are not there yet. And housing continues to be the thing that economists and policymakers keep going back to as a thing that is just not budging. I really get the sense that Fed officials have kind of looked at the housing inflation figure as one that they obviously take seriously, and that is part of their dashboard, but has really become separate from the other tools and other metrics that they are really keeping a close eye on. These housing figures really are just not proving to be a very accurate snapshot of what's happening in the economy, which is showing progress on inflation, it's just slowing down. And I think that that means that they will not be in a rush to keep cutting rates. We'll certainly get a sense of what their forecasts look like when they update them at their December meeting, but they're definitely not in a rush and they're also not feeling the need to jerk pressure off the economy as they're continuing the rate paths moving forward.

[Kimberly Adams]

Rachel Siegel, an economics reporter at the Washington Post, and Jordan Holman, a business reporter at the New York Times, thank you both and enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.

[Rachel Siegel]

Thank you so much.

[Kimberly Adams]

Good one Wall street today closed early for this quasi holiday. We'll have the details when we do the number those on the road this holiday are getting a bit of a reprieve when it comes to filling up their tanks. Gas prices are averaging at about $3 a gallon this Friday afternoon, according to the Energy Information administration. That's about 7% less than last year and the lowest price since 2020, when prices were really down due to the pandemic. As millions take to the highways to return home after this Thanksgiving holiday, Marketplace's Elizabeth Troval explains why we're paying less.

[Elizabeth Troval]

At the pump when gas prices are down. First we have to look at what's happening with crude oil, says Andrew Gross with AAA.

[Andrew Gross]

The cost of oil accounts for about 55 to 60% of what people pay at the pump.

[Elizabeth Troval]

West Texas Intermediate is trading today at under $70 a barrel, which is fantastic.

[Andrew Gross]

Anything under 80 is really ideal for keeping gasoline prices from surging higher.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Crude prices are relatively low and stable despite conflict abroad, says Matthew Lewis with Clemson University.

[Andrew Gross]

There have been times in the recent months when it looked like we might have oil prices going up due to concerns, geopolitical concerns, but they didn't last very long.

[Elizabeth Troval]

What's helped smooth things out is global.

[Andrew Gross]

Demand is sort of low enough that small supply concerns can be handled.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Refining capacity is also factoring into today's gasoline prices, says Ed Herz with University of Houston.

[Andrew Gross]

We also have refineries pumping out a bunch more gasoline into the market than.

[Kimberly Adams]

We did this time last year because.

[Andrew Gross]

We had more refineries operating. We had several offline domestically for turnarounds and because of upsets last year, he.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Says, that additional refining capacity has lowered prices.

[Andrew Gross]

It's not that Grandma moved closer to you.

[Elizabeth Troval]

There's also some seasonality to gas prices. So after Labor Day, prices tend to slide. Andrew Gross, Again, the days are getting.

[Andrew Gross]

Shorter, kids are back in school, and you make that switch from more expensive summer blend gasoline to less expensive to refined winter blend gasoline.

[Elizabeth Troval]

That's right. In the summer, we use a pricier gasoline that is better at preventing smog.

[Andrew Gross]

But now because it's colder out, we don't have to worry about smog quite as much. So winter blend gasolines require slightly less.

[Kimberly Adams]

Refining and they're always cheaper, pushing down.

[Elizabeth Troval]

The price at the pump. I'm Elizabeth Troval for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

Foreign Consumption. And like we were just talking about, since consumer spending drives so much of the economy, the government has an incentive to keep us all shopping. And not just here in the US In China, the government has been trying to encourage people to spend more, including a raft of stimulus measures announced in recent months. Retail sales in China, which are often taken as a proxy for consumption, beat analysts expectations and grew at 4.8% in October. But even as retail sales have risen, the country's property slump continues. Our China correspondent Jennifer Pak has more from Shanghai.

[Jennifer Pak]

Finance worker Daisy Gu prides herself in being a savvy shopper. Recently she took advantage of a government program that entices people to upgrade old products for newer versions at a discount.

[Rachel Siegel]

The government subsidies amount to 15, even 20% off for furniture, home appliances. That's a huge discount. So I help my family and elderly relatives buy beds and sofas. I've saved them a lot of money.

[Jennifer Pak]

This subsidy program is partly why retail sales growth in October was the highest in eight months, according to Fu Linghui with the National Bureau of Statistics. But in a recent news conference, he said there were other factors too.

[Kimberly Adams]

In October, the national day holiday, early promotions for shopping festival called Singles Day, as well as active transactions in the stock and property markets, all these have boosted consumer confidence.

[Jennifer Pak]

Whether it can be sustained depends a lot on the real estate slump. Most household wealth in China is invested in property, and these days, homeowners don't feel rich. Yan Yuejin is with the real estate research institute eHouse.

[Yan Yuejin]

Housing prices have dropped by an average of 30% since 2021.

[Jennifer Pak]

That's when Chinese officials made it much harder for property firms to borrow money and the housing bubble popped. In the first 10 months of this year, real estate investment dropped by 10.3%. But the government is making it easier at the other end of the real estate transaction, buyers. And Yan Yuejing sees demand picking up, especially among first time home buyers.

[Yan Yuejin]

The main reason is government rules on home buying are the loosest they've been in history. Like there are fewer barriers on who can buy condos in cities and the minimum down payment has been lowered.

[Jennifer Pak]

Some analysts say Chinese leaders need more substantial stimulus and fast. US President elect Donald Trump has threatened more tariffs on Chinese exports. Meanwhile, unemployment in China remains high. Finance worker Gu is newly out of a job, so she's spending less overall.

[Rachel Siegel]

In the past, I've spent 2,800 to $4,100 a year on beauty and skin care.

[Jennifer Pak]

Her consumption, she says, has been cut by at least half. In Shanghai, I'm Jennifer Paak for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

Coming up, you could teach the entire.

[Carla Yanni]

History of American architectural style just using dormitories.

[Kimberly Adams]

They've changed right along with us. But first, let's do the numbers. Markets closed early today, the day after Thanksgiving. The Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 188points, 4.10% to finish at 44,910. The Nasdaq picked up 157 points points 8.10% to close at 19,218. And the S&P 500 added 33 points, 6.10% to end at 60:32. For the holiday week, the Dow grew 1 and 4.10%. The Nasdaq and the S&P both improved 1 and a 10th percent. Checking in with some retailers this Black Friday shopping day. E commerce giant Amazon plumped up one. Walmart, the nation's largest retailer, advanced 2/3%. Now, some chip related stocks rose after Bloomberg reported that the Biden administration's expected sanctions on sales of semiconductors to China may be less strict than expected. Applied Materials appreciated 2%. Nvidia picked up 2 and a 10th percent. And then bonds rose. The yield on the 10 year T note fell to 4.19%. And you are listening to Marketplace.

[Yan Yuejin]

Listen up, folks. Time could be running out to lock in a historic [e-mail] but you can lock in a 6% or higher yield with a bond account. But here's the thing. The Federal Reserve just announced a big rate cut and the plan is for more rate cuts this year and in 2025 as well. That's good news if you're looking to buy a home, but it might not be so good for the interest you earn on your cash. So if you want to lock in a 6% or higher yield with a diversified portfolio of high yield and investment grade bonds, you might want to act fast. The good news? It only takes a couple of minutes to sign [e-mail] and once you lock in your yield, you can earn regular interest payments even as rates decline. Lock in a 6% or higher yield with a bond [e-mail] marketplace. But hurry. Your yield is not locked in until you invest. Brought to you by Public Investing member FINRA and SIPC. As of September 26, 2024, the average annualized yield to worst across the bond account is greater than 6%. Yield to worst is not guaranteed. Not an investment recommendation. All investing involves risk. Visit public.com disclosures Bond account for more info.

[Andrew Gross]

You turn to Marketplace for up to the minute news for stories that show you the connections between global events and your personal economy. And you're not alone. Marketplace is the most widely consumed business and economic news program in the country. We're proud to make fact based journalism freely accessible and Marketplace investors make it all possible. Your year end donation today will make a real difference in our nonprofit newsroom and in the lives of millions of Marketplace listeners every single day. So please contribute what you can [e-mail] donate to herbicide is all about flexibility with tank mix compatibility to combat weed resistance, a nine month plant back rotation to most major crops that helps boost profitability and an active ingredient new to the cereals market, Tolvera Herbicide can easily manage hard to control broadleaf weeds and foxtails. Oh now if it could only manage the traffic. For more flexible weed control, visit Corteva US Flex.

[Kimberly Adams]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kimberly Adams. Even if Black Friday is the official start of the holiday shopping season, we're really well into it it and many people are still paying off debt from the holidays. Last year, according to a recent survey from WalletHub, nearly 50% of Americans are in that position. That's double the percentage of people who were still paying old holiday debt. This time last year, Marketplace's Samantha Fields has more.

[Samantha Fields]

Everywhere you look these days, someone or something is encouraging you to spend money.

[Jordan Holman]

I get daily messages that remind me of all the wonderful stuff that I can buy.

[Samantha Fields]

Ayelet Fischbeck at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business says some of those messages come in the form of ads on social media or tv. Others are more subliminal in movies or books.

[Jordan Holman]

This is very much part of our culture, even in places where we don't expect someone to influence us to buy. Everything is influencing us to buy, to consume.

[Samantha Fields]

And she says those kinds of messages really ramp up around the holidays.

[Jordan Holman]

There is a lot of advertisement that tells us that this is the right.

[Samantha Fields]

Way to celebrate by buying a lot of gifts. Ted Rossman at Bankrate says the winter holidays are the number one time of year we tend to splurge.

[Ted Rossman]

People want to have a good holiday. They want to celebrate with their kids and other family members and friends. And we always see credit card balances go way up in the fourth quarter.

[Samantha Fields]

And then typically they go down in the first quarter of the new year. But increasingly, Rossman says, people have been carrying balances on their credit cards.

[Ted Rossman]

Six in 10 people with credit card debt have had it for at least a year. That's up 10 percentage points from three years ago. It's easy to see how somebody would be paying off this holiday season a year from now or worse.

[Samantha Fields]

Unfortunately, especially these last few years, with inflation and interest rates both high, says Chichi Wu at the National Consumer Law.

[Carla Yanni]

Center, carrying debt on a credit card has gotten a lot more expensive.

[Samantha Fields]

The average interest rate on credit cards is now over 20%. That can be hard to keep up with if you don't pay it off right away. And Wu says not only are more people carrying a balance these days, those balances are also rising.

[Kimberly Adams]

It's a sign, I think, of consumers struggling financially, barely making it for some people.

[Samantha Fields]

Ted Rossman at Bankrate says buying things for themselves and others might be partly a reaction to the financial stress of the last few years.

[Ted Rossman]

That whole idea of whether you call it revenge spending or doom spending, sometimes people are saying, hey, I'm not feeling great about things, but at least I.

[Samantha Fields]

Can treat myself or my kids for the holidays. I'm Samantha Fields for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

For many college students, Thanksgiving and its associated break means coming back home. And for some, it's their first escape from the dorm since the start of the semester. With all those college kids back in town, we thought now would be a good time to take a trip down memory lane and look back at college housing over the years for our series Adventures in Housing History.

[Carla Yanni]

I'm Carla Yanni. I'm a professor of architectural history in the art history department at Rutgers New Brunswick, and I'm the author of Living on An Architectural History of the American Dormitory. Some of the colleges in the early years, even before the American Revolution, colleges were very small, and some of them were in remote rural locations like, for example, Williams College or Dickinson. These were small colleges that were in towns that simply weren't big enough to house the students. Therefore, the colleges had to build one large building. Usually it was a building that contained all of the functions, a place for the boys to sleep, the president's apartment, professors, apartments, classrooms, kitchens, a dining hall, a chapel, a library, all in one building. You could teach the entire history of American architectural style just using dormitories. The early ones were colonial boxes, red brick with white trim. A little bit later, we see Gothic revival dormitories an abrupt change occurs with the arrival of modernism. These were very plain, utilitarian buildings, but they suited the needle for housing. After World War II, a lot of universities built skyscraper dormitories, tall dormitories that could efficiently house 500 people in one building. The history of who could live in college housing and who could not is fraught and complicated. So you can always find out who the first African American graduate of any university was. That's going to be right on the website. But they often don't tell you that the person had to live in a boarding house or had to live with relatives because they weren't allowed in the residence halls. Sometimes there was a gap of decades between the first African American graduate and the first time an African American man or woman could live in a residence hall. I know a lot about this subject, and I would love for my son to live in a college residence hall because I think it's important. Many people know rationally that you do not need to live on campus to become educated. There have always been commuters. There are community colleges that do an outstanding job. We don't really need dormitories. And yet Americans are far more dedicated to this building type than in other countries and places. And I think it's because Americans see colleges as an opportunity for networking. I gave a book talk when my book first came out in New York City, and I was talking about colleges as networking opportunities. And there was a woman in the audience who taught art history at Juilliard, and she told me that before they built a residence hall, the dance majors used recorded music for their dance recitals. And once they built the residence hall, the dancers met the musicians and they worked together. Which just strikes me as a perfect example of how important the residence hall is for collaboration and personal development.

[Kimberly Adams]

Carla Yanni, a professor of architectural history at Rutgers New Brunswick, have a question about housing history or want to tell us a housing story of your own? You can write to [e-mail] this final note on the way out today, some shopping trends that are changing this holiday. According to a survey from online resale marketplace OfferUp, about 68% of shoppers plan to spend at least some of their holiday budget buying secondhand. And with one in three shoppers trying resale for the first time in the last year, 83% of folks surveyed said they are open to receiving a pre owned gift. Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargoli. Donna Tam is our executive editor. Neil Scarborough is the vice president and general manager, I'm Kimberly Adams. Have a great weekend and we will be back on Monday. Foreign this is apm.

[Andrew Gross]

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