The cost of Christmas past

Summary

Marketplace: The Cost of Christmas Past Hosted by Kimberly Adams | Released on November 29, 2024

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Introduction

In the November 29th episode of Marketplace, host Kimberly Adams delves into the multifaceted economic landscape surrounding the holiday season. From Black Friday shopping dynamics in the United States to consumer behavior in China, the episode offers comprehensive insights into current economic trends, consumer spending habits, and the broader implications for both retailers and policymakers.

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Black Friday Retail Trends

Retail Performance and Consumer Behavior

The episode kicks off with a discussion on Black Friday, traditionally heralded as the official start to the holiday shopping season. Despite the shift towards online shopping—“swiping in our soft pants” rather than battling in stores—Black Friday remains a pivotal period for retailers.

Rachel Siegel highlights the evolving nature of Black Friday:

“For retailers, Black Friday is still so very important. It used to be this peak. It's now more of a hill...” (01:15)

She explains that retailers have been promoting deals since early November, resulting in a more flattened sales day. However, significant discounts—often around 50-60%—and increased foot traffic continue to set the tone for the ensuing four-week holiday period.

Jordan Holman adds nuance by addressing consumer frustrations related to persistent inflation:

“People are still frustrated that prices don't look like what they did before the pandemic...” (02:08)

He observes a dichotomy in consumer behavior: while wealthier Americans maintain their spending levels, lower-income consumers are constrained, leading to a disparity in overall retail performance.

Economic Indicators and Consumer Pain Points

The National Retail Federation forecasts a 3.5% increase in holiday sales, primarily driven by middle-income consumers. Rachel Siegel points out that this growth masks underlying financial strains among lower-income shoppers, exemplified by retailers like Dollar General experiencing sales declines during the latter part of the month as their customer base exhausts discretionary spending.

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Potential Tariffs and Trade Implications

President-Elect Trump's Tariff Plans

A significant portion of the episode addresses President-Elect Donald Trump's announcement to impose new tariffs on imports from China, Mexico, and Canada. Jordan Holman examines the feasibility and potential impact of these tariffs:

“Trump said he would, quote, sign all necessary documents to make it happen...” (04:23)

He explains that Trump possesses substantial executive authority to enact such measures without immediate congressional approval, referencing past legislation that grants the administration leeway in tariff implementations. However, the potential clash with existing trade agreements, notably the USMCA (United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement), could pose legal challenges.

Retailer and Consumer Concerns

Rachel Siegel discusses the apprehensions among retailers and consumers regarding these impending tariffs:

“If tariffs do go into place, that would likely result in higher prices for shop shoppers...” (05:46)

Retail giants like Walmart and fashion brands such as Steve Madden and Five Below are proactively assessing the financial repercussions, anticipating possible price hikes. Additionally, consumer behavior may shift towards stockpiling goods in anticipation of increased costs.

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Inflation Metrics and Federal Reserve Policies

Personal Consumption Expenditures (PCE) Index

The episode transitions to the Federal Reserve's stance on inflation, focusing on the PCE Index, the Fed's preferred inflation measure, which stood at 2.3%, nearing the target rate. Jordan Holman analyzes the implications for monetary policy:

“They're close, but they are not there yet... the Fed officials have kind of looked at the housing inflation figure as one that they obviously take seriously...” (07:13)

He notes that while overall inflation is decelerating, housing prices remain a stubborn component. This persistence influences the Fed's cautious approach to adjusting interest rates, indicating no immediate plans to cut rates despite favorable inflation trends.

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Gasoline Prices: Trends and Influencing Factors

Current Gas Prices and Influencing Elements

Gasoline prices at the time of the episode average around $3 per gallon, a 7% decrease from the previous year and the lowest since 2020. Elizabeth Troval and Andrew Gross from AAA provide an in-depth analysis of the factors contributing to this decline:

“The cost of oil accounts for about 55 to 60% of what people pay at the pump.” (09:26)

Key Factors:

• Stable Crude Oil Prices: West Texas Intermediate is trading below $70 a barrel.
• Refining Capacity: Increased refinery operations have boosted gasoline supply.
• Seasonal Adjustments: Transitioning to winter blend gasoline, which is cheaper to produce, further reduces costs.

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Consumer Spending in China

Stimulus Measures and Retail Growth

Shifting focus to China, the episode explores government initiatives aimed at boosting consumer spending amid a property market slump. Jennifer Pak reports on the effectiveness of subsidies encouraging upgrades of household appliances:

“The government subsidies amount to 15, even 20% off for furniture and home appliances...” (12:35)

These measures have contributed to a 4.8% growth in October retail sales, surpassing analyst expectations. However, the persistent real estate downturn, with housing prices declining by an average of 30% since 2021, poses a significant challenge to sustained economic recovery.

Real Estate and Consumer Confidence

Yan Yuejin from the E House housing research institute elaborates on the measures to revive the housing sector:

“The main reason is government rules on home buying are the loosest they've been in history...” (13:28)

Lowering barriers for first-time homebuyers and reducing down payment requirements aim to stimulate demand. Nevertheless, high unemployment rates and ongoing economic uncertainties continue to dampen consumer confidence.

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Holiday Debt Struggles

Rising Consumer Debt Post-Holiday

The episode highlights a concerning trend: an increasing number of Americans are grappling with post-holiday debt. According to a WalletHub survey cited by Samantha Fields, nearly 50% of Americans are still paying off holiday-related debt, double the percentage from the previous year.

Psychological and Economic Drivers

Rachel Siegel and Ted Rossman discuss the cultural and economic factors driving this trend:

“All of those messages come in the form of ads on social media or TV... everything is influencing us to buy, to consume.” (18:00)

Consumers are under relentless pressure to spend, exacerbated by high-interest rates on credit cards—averaging over 20%. This financial strain is further intensified by lingering effects of inflation, making it difficult for individuals to manage and pay down debt.

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Adventures in Housing History

Evolution of College Housing

An intriguing segment features Carla Yanni, a professor of architectural history at Rutgers, who traces the history of American college dormitories:

“You could teach the entire history of American architectural style just using dormitories.” (24:07)

Key Historical Phases:

• Early Institutions: Multi-functional buildings housing students, faculty, and administrative functions.
• Gothic Revival Era: Introduction of stylistic architectural elements.
• Modernism: Transition to plain, utilitarian designs to meet housing needs.
• Post-World War II: Construction of skyscraper dormitories to accommodate large student populations efficiently.

Social Implications and Integration

Yanni emphasizes the role of dormitories in fostering collaboration and personal development, citing examples of interdisciplinary interactions, such as dance majors collaborating with musicians—a testament to the integral role of residence halls in American higher education.

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Emerging Shopping Trends: Embracing Secondhand Purchases

Shift Towards Sustainability and Value

Concluding the episode, Kimberly Adams highlights evolving shopping habits, particularly the surge in secondhand purchases during the holiday season. A survey from Marketplace OfferUp reveals that 68% of shoppers intend to allocate part of their holiday budget to buying pre-owned items.

Consumer Openness to Resale:

• First-Time Users: One in three shoppers has engaged in resale within the past year.
• Gift Preferences: 83% of respondents are open to receiving pre-owned gifts, indicating a growing acceptance of sustainable consumption practices.

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Conclusion

The episode of Marketplace offers a thorough examination of the economic currents shaping the holiday season. From the resilience and challenges of Black Friday retail dynamics to the intricate dance of international trade policies and the persistent shadow of inflation, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the factors influencing consumer behavior and economic forecasts. Additionally, the exploration of historical housing trends and modern shopping habits provides a rich context for the ongoing evolution of American economic and social landscapes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Siegel on Black Friday's evolution:

  “For retailers, Black Friday is still so very important. It used to be this peak. It's now more of a hill...” (01:15)

• Jordan Holman on consumer frustration with inflation:

  “People are still frustrated that prices don't look like what they did before the pandemic...” (02:08)

• Rachel Siegel on holiday sales growth masking financial strain:

  “So there is still a lot of pain...it just might not show up in this bigger number when you say, oh, it was a great Black Friday weekend.” (03:08)

• Jordan Holman on Trump's tariff authority:

  “Trump said he would, quote, sign all necessary documents to make it happen...” (04:23)

• Carla Yanni on the history of dormitories:

  “You could teach the entire history of American architectural style just using dormitories.” (24:07)

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the "The Cost of Christmas Past" episode of Marketplace, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the economic factors influencing the holiday season.

Transcript

[Kimberly Adams]

It's Black Friday. So, you know, we're going to talk about shopping and the almighty American consumer, plus Chinese consumers as well. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Washington, D.C. i'm Kimberly Adams in for Kaia Rysdal. It's Friday, the 29th of November. Good to have you along. The sales may have started weeks ago and the decorations have been out for ages. But today, Black Friday is supposedly the official start to the holiday shopping season. And even though nowadays more of us may be swiping in our soft pants rather than scrambling for a TV in a big box store, it's still a very big weekend for retailers. So for more on this and a look back at the economic week that was, I'm joined by Jordan Holman, a business reporter at the New York Times, and Rachel Siegel, an economics reporter at the Washington Washington Post. Welcome, ladies.

[Jordan Holman]

Hi there.

[Kimberly Adams]

So, Jordan, let's start with you. Since retail is your thing, how is Black Friday looking this year? What were you hearing from folks heading into the weekend?

[Rachel Siegel]

So for retailers, Black Friday is still so very important. It used to be this peak. It's now more of a hill, as executives would describe it. So they still have to staff all of their stores, make sure all the merchandise is there. But the reality is they have been putting pushing deals since the beginning of November. And it's just kind of flattens out the day. It is still a big day that you're going to see the 60% off or 50% off and you're going to have higher foot traffic and store. And it kind of now is just important to set the tone for these next four weeks that they have before.

[Kimberly Adams]

The Christmas holiday, a shorter shopping season than usual. Usual. And Rachel, you know, I feel like I've been hearing chatter all year that consumers are going to finally just be over the inflation and actually pull back on spending. Any sense of that heading into this shopping season.

[Jordan Holman]

You know, it's really something we've been talking about for what feels like years. Right. What is we're going to start to see this frustration around inflation, you know, price tags that still have that kind of sticker shock. When are we going to start to see it translate into consumer behavior? And, you know, surprisingly, it's not something that is expected to yank back sales this year either. But I think what's important to note is that there's a bit of a bifurcation or almost like a split screen here, Right where we clearly saw in the last election that inflation still does feel very visceral to people. People are still frustrated that prices don't look like what they did before the pandemic. And also in many cases, it's the lower income brackets that just aren't able to just bite the bullet and keep spending. You're seeing that continued spending among wealthier Americans, people with more in their budgets. And increasingly there's a gulf between the two that powers a lot of that spending that we just continue to see.

[Kimberly Adams]

So then, Jordan, what does that mean that people are actually going to do, especially those lower income consumers this holiday?

[Rachel Siegel]

So the overall picture for holiday sales is that it will increase as much as 3.5% according to the National Retail Federation. I think Rachel's making a really good point. Like right now, that number will increase largely because middle income Americans still have enough money to spend, are in a good job situation, and because lower income Americans aren't making up so much of that percentage, it's kind of hidden. So there is still a lot of pain, I think, about Dollar General. For their last earnings report, they said that they can see those last five days of the month that their sales go down because their customer, who makes an average of 35k a year, just has no more money to spend. So there is a lot of strain there, but it just might not show up in this bigger number when you say, oh, it was a great Black Friday weekend.

[Kimberly Adams]

Right. Because all the wealthier people are spending and juicing those numbers. Rachel, there's another story that was big this week, which is that President Elect Trump said that he is going to impose new tariffs on all imported goods from China, Mexico and Canada. And you wrote kind of about the question that people often ask about this. Can he do that by himself?

[Jordan Holman]

We're back to those questions. Yeah. And you know, in his social media post, Trump said very clearly this was something he planned to do as one of his many first executive orders. He said he would, quote, sign all necessary documents to make it happen. And this was a playbook that he also leaned on quite heavily during his first administration. And it really turns out that legally he has a lot of open doors to be able to act around Congress to use that executive authority. I think it's something that we're seeing his advisors around him really embrace too, really the, you know, testing the limits of what his executive authority could look like. And there are a lot of laws passed over the past few decades that on tariffs especially, give him that kind of authority to move forward. Now, some of this will end up coming down to what exactly the tariff looks like. You know, what exactly it is that goes into effect on Inauguration Day, if that is indeed what ends up happening. But the expectation is that this is not something that will immediately be held up in court or immediately be challenged, and that if he intends to follow through on these kinds of policies, that he could be able to push forward in that way.

[Kimberly Adams]

Jordan, I think we all remember the first Trump administration and these sort of big policy announcements via social media post. But I mean, this threat of tariffs really has retailers and consumers worried. Are you seeing that show up in terms of preparations for this?

[Rachel Siegel]

Yeah. You have heard retail executives. I'm thinking about Walmart, Steve Madden talking about that if tariffs do go into place, that would likely result in higher prices for shop shoppers because they're also, they have experience of this. Seven years ago they saw this, they had to change their business, I think about five below which their whole thing is $5 and less. Back in 2019, they said we might have to consider going up above $5. So companies are already running the numbers, thinking about what it could mean on the consumer side. When I go on TikTok, I already see people saying they're planning on stockpiling or getting that new iPhone now or getting or getting a really nice imported jacket or whatnot. Just in the anticipation, even though the details are still being worked out.

[Kimberly Adams]

Oh, go ahead.

[Jordan Holman]

No, I was going to say, you know, another thing to be worked out is there's a lot of reason to think that this would violate existing trade agreements too. Right. Namely United States, Mexico, Canada Agreement, usmca, which Trump negotiated during his first term. So just under the umbrella of can he do that? I think that's an important piece too.

[Kimberly Adams]

Rachel, sticking with you. One of the other things we got this week was PCE, the Fed's preferred measure of inflation, up to 2.3%, very close to the Fed's target. What do you think this means for Fed actions moving forward, especially since one of the stickier parts has been like housing prices?

[Jordan Holman]

Yeah, they're close, but they are not there yet. And housing continues to be the thing that economists and policymakers keep going back to is a thing that is just not budging. I really get the sense that Fed officials have kind of looked at the housing inflation figure as one that they obviously take seriously, and that is part of their dashboard, but has really become separate from the other tools and other metrics that they are really keeping a close eye on. These housing figures really are just not proving to be a very accurate snapshot of what's happening in the economy, which is showing progress on inflation. It's just slowing down, and I think that that means that they will not be in a rush to keep cutting rates. We'll certainly get a sense of what their forecasts look like when they update them at their December meeting, but they're definitely not in a rush and they're also not feeling the need to jerk pressure off the economy as they're continuing the rate paths moving forward.

[Kimberly Adams]

Rachel Siegel, an economics reporter at the Washington Post, and Jordan Holman, a business reporter at the New York Times, thank you both and enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.

[Jordan Holman]

Thank you so much. Have a good one.

[Kimberly Adams]

Wall street today closed early for this quasi holiday. We'll have the details when we do the number those on the road this holiday are getting a bit of a reprieve when it comes to filling up their tanks. Gas prices are averaging at about $3 a gallon this Friday afternoon, according to the Energy Information administration. That's about 7% less than last year and the lowest price since 2020, when prices were really down due to the pandemic. As millions take to the highways to return home after this Thanksgiving holiday, Marketplace's Elizabeth Troval explains why we're paying less.

[Elizabeth Troval]

At the pump when gas prices are down. First we have to look at what's happening with crude oil, says Andrew Gross with AAA.

[Andrew Gross]

The cost of oil accounts for about 55 to 60% of what people pay at the pump.

[Elizabeth Troval]

West Texas Intermediate is trading today at under $70 a barrel, which is fantastic.

[Andrew Gross]

Anything under 80 is really ideal for keeping gasoline prices from surging higher.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Crude prices are relatively low and stable despite conflict abroad, says Matthew Lewis with Clemson University.

[Andrew Gross]

There have been times in the recent months when it looked like we might have oil prices going up due to concerns, geopolitical concerns, but they didn't last very long.

[Elizabeth Troval]

What's helped smooth things out is global.

[Andrew Gross]

Demand is sort of low enough that small supply concerns can be handled.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Refining capacity is also factoring into today's gasoline prices, says Ed Herz with University of Houston.

[Andrew Gross]

We also have refineries pumping out a bunch more gasoline into the market than we did this time last year because we have more refineries operating. We had several offline domestically for turnarounds and because of upsets last year, he.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Says, that additional refining capacity has lowered prices.

[Andrew Gross]

It's not that Grandma moved closer to you.

[Elizabeth Troval]

There's also some seasonality to gas prices. So after Labor Day, prices tend to slide and you're gross again.

[Andrew Gross]

The days are getting shorter, kids are back in school, and you make that switch from more expensive summer blend gasoline to less expensive to refined winter blend gasoline.

[Elizabeth Troval]

That's right. In the summer, we use a pricier gasoline that is better at preventing smog.

[Andrew Gross]

But now because it's colder out, we don't have to worry about smog quite as much. So winter blend gasolines require slightly less refining and they're always cheaper, pushing down.

[Elizabeth Troval]

The price at the pump. I'm Elizabeth Troval for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

Tis the season of consumption and like we were just talking about, since consumer spending drives so much of the economy, the government has an incentive to keep us all shopping. And not just here in the US In China, the government has been trying to encourage people to spend more, including a raft of stimulus measures announced in recent months. Retail sales in China, which are often taken as a proxy for consumption, beat analysts expectations and grew at 4.8% in October. But even as retail sales have risen, the country's property slump continues. Our China correspondent Jennifer Pak has more from Shanghai.

[Jennifer Pak]

Finance worker Daisy Gu prides herself in being a savvy shopper. Recently she took advantage of a government program that entices people to upgrade old products for newer versions at a discount.

[Jordan Holman]

The government subsidies amount to 15, even 20% off for furniture and home home appliances. That's a huge discount.

[Rachel Siegel]

So I help my family and elderly.

[Jordan Holman]

Relatives buy beds and sofas. I've saved them a lot of money.

[Jennifer Pak]

This subsidy program is partly why retail sales growth in October was the highest in eight months, according to Fu Linghui with the National Bureau of Statistics. But in a recent news conference, he said there were other factors too.

[Kimberly Adams]

In October, the national day holiday, early promotions for a shopping festival called Singles Day, as well as active transactions in the stock and property markets, all these have boosted consumer confidence.

[Jennifer Pak]

Whether it can be sustained depends a lot on the real estate slump. Most household wealth in China is invested in property, and these days, homeowners don't feel rich. Yan Yuejin is with the real estate research institute E House housing prices have.

[Andrew Gross]

Dropped by an average of 30% since 2021.

[Jennifer Pak]

That's when Chinese officials made it much harder for property firms to borrow money and the housing bubble popped. In the first 10 months of this year, real estate investment dropped by 10.3%. But the government is making it easier at the other end of the real estate transaction, buyers and Yan Yuejin sees demand picking up, especially among first time home buyers.

[Andrew Gross]

The main reason is government rules on home buying are the loosest they've been in history. Like there are fewer barriers on who can buy condos in cities and the minimum down payment has been lowered.

[Jennifer Pak]

Some analysts say Chinese leaders need more substantial stimulus and fast. US President elect Donald Trump has threatened more tariffs on Chinese exports. Meanwhile, unemployment in China remains high. Finance worker Gu is newly out of a job, so she's spending less overall.

[Jordan Holman]

In the past, I've spent 2,800 to $4,100 a year on beauty and skincare.

[Jennifer Pak]

Her consumption, she says, has been cut by at least half. In Shanghai, I'm Jennifer Pak for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

Coming up, you could teach the entire.

[Carla Yanni]

History of American architectural style just using dormitories.

[Kimberly Adams]

They've changed right along with us. But first, let's do the numbers. Markets closed early today, the day after Thanksgiving. The Dow Jones industrial average gained 188.4 10% to finish at 44,910. The Nasdaq picked up 157 points points 8, 10% to close at 19,218. And the S&P 500 added 33 points 6 10% to end at 60 32. For the holiday week, the Dow grew 11 1/10%. The Nasdaq and the S P both improved 1 1/10%. Checking in with some retailers this Black Friday shopping day. E commerce giant Amazon plumped up 1%. Walmart, the nation's largest retailer, advanced 2/3%. Now some chip related stocks rose after Bloomberg reported that the Biden administration's expected sanctions on sales of semiconductors to China may be less strict than expected. Applied Materials appreciated 2%. Nvidia picked up 2 and a 10th percent. And then bonds rose. The yield on the 10 year T note fell to 4.19%. And you are listening to Marketplace.

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[Andrew Gross]

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[Kimberly Adams]

This is Marketplace. I'm Kimberly Adams. Even if Black Friday is the official start of the holiday shopping season, were really well into it and many people are still paying off debt from the holidays. Last year, according to a recent survey from WalletHub, nearly 50% of Americans are in that position. That's double the percentage of people who were still paying old holiday debt this time last year. Marketplace's Samantha Fields has more.

[I]

Everywhere you look these days, someone or something is encouraging you to spend money.

[Elizabeth Troval]

I get daily messages that remind me.

[Rachel Siegel]

Of all the wonderful stuff that I can buy.

[I]

I let Fishbeck at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, says some of those messages come in the form of ads on social media or tv. Others are more subliminal in movies or books.

[Elizabeth Troval]

This is very much part of our.

[Rachel Siegel]

Culture, even in places where we don't expect someone to influence us to buy, everything is influencing us to buy, to consume.

[I]

And she says those kinds of messages really ramp up around the holidays.

[Elizabeth Troval]

There is a lot of advertisement that.

[Rachel Siegel]

Tells us that this is the right.

[I]

Way to celebrate by buying a lot of gifts. Ted Rossman at Bankrate says the winter holidays are the number one time of year we tend to splurge.

[Andrew Gross]

People want to have a good holiday. They want to celebrate with their kids and other family members and friends. And we always see credit card balances go way up in the fourth quarter.

[I]

And then typically they go down in the first quarter of the new year. But increasingly, Rossman says, people have been carrying balances on their credit cards.

[Andrew Gross]

Six in 10 people with credit card debt have had it for at least a year. That's up 10 percentage points from three years ago. It's easy to see how somebody would be paying off this holiday season a year from now or worse.

[I]

Unfortunately, especially these last few years with inflation and interest rates both high, says Chi Chi Wu at the National Consumer.

[Carla Yanni]

Law center, carrying debt on a credit card has gotten a lot more expensive.

[I]

The average interest rate on credit cards is now over 20%. That can be hard to keep up with if you don't pay it off right away. And Wu says not only are more people carrying a balance these days, those balances are also rising.

[Kimberly Adams]

It's a sign, I think, of consumers struggling financially, barely making it for some people.

[I]

Ted Rossman at Bankrate says buying things for themselves and others might be partly a reaction to the financial stress of the last few years.

[Andrew Gross]

That whole idea of whether you call it revenge spending or doom spending. Sometimes people are saying, hey, I'm not feeling great about things, but at least.

[I]

I can treat myself or my kids for the holidays. I'm Samantha Fields for Marketplace.

[Kimberly Adams]

For many college students, Thanksgiving and its associated break means coming back home. And for some, it's their first escape from the dorm since the start of the semester. With all those college kids back in town, we thought now would be a good time to take a trip down memory lane and look back at college housing over the years for our series Adventures in Housing History.

[Carla Yanni]

I'm Carla Yanni. I'm a professor of architectural history in the art history department at Rutgers New Brunswick, and I'm the author of Living on An Architectural History of the American Dormitory. Some of the colleges in the early years, even before the American Revolution, colleges were very small, and some of them were in remote rural locations like, for example, Williams College or Dickinson. These were small colleges that were in towns that simply weren't big enough to house the students. Therefore, the colleges had to build one large building. Usually it was a building that contained all of the functions, a place for the boys to sleep, the president's apartment, professors, apartments, classrooms, kitchens, a dining hall, a chapel, a library, all in one building. You could teach the entire history of American architectural style just using dormitories. The early ones were colonial boxes, red brick with white trim. A little bit later we see Gothic Revival dormitories. An abrupt change occurs with the arrival of modernism. These were very plain, utilitarian buildings, but they suited the need for housing. After World War II, a lot of universities built skyscraper dormitories, tall dormitories that could efficiently house 500 people in one building. The history of who could live in college housing and who could not is fraught and complicated. So you can always find out who the first African American graduate of any university was. That's going to be right on the website. But they often don't tell you that the person had to live in a boarding house or had to live with relatives because they weren't allowed in the residence halls. Sometimes there was a gap of decades between the first African American graduate and the first time an African American man or woman could live in a residence hall. I know a lot about this subject, and I would love for my son to live in a college residence hall because I think it's important. Many people know rationally that you do not need to live on campus to become educated. There have always been commuters. There are community colleges that do an outstanding job. We don't really need dormitories. And yet Americans are far more dedicated to this building type than in other countries and places. And I think it's because Americans see colleges as an opportunity for networking. I gave a book talk when my book first came out in New York City, and I was talking about colleges as networking opportunities, and there was a woman in the audience who taught art history at Juilliard, and she told me that before they built a residence hall, the dance majors used recorded music for their dance recitals. And once they built the residence hall, the dancers met the musicians and they worked together, which just strikes me as a perfect example of how important the residence hall is for collaboration and personal development.

[Kimberly Adams]

Carla Yanni, a professor of architectural history at Rutgers New Brunswick have a question about housing history or want to tell us a housing story of your own? You can write to [e-mail] this final note on the way out today, some shopping trends that are changing this holiday. According to a survey from online resale Marketplace OfferUp, about 68% of shoppers plan to spend at least some of their holiday budget buying secondhand. And with one in three shoppers trying resale for the first time in the last year, 83% of folks surveyed said they are open to receiving a pre owned gift. Our theme music was composed by BJ Lederman. Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy Fargali. Donna Tam is our executive editor. Neal Scarborough is the vice president and general manager. I'm Kimberly Adams. Have a great weekend and we will be back on Monday. This is apm.

[Unknown]

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