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- [00:00]
Stephanie Hughes
This Marketplace podcast is supported by Glassdoor, announcing the best places to work in 2025 as determined by anonymous reviews from the people who Know Best Real employees. Did your company make the list this year? Learn who's leading the way in workplace culture and employee satisfaction and see who's hiring today. Then join the conversation in the Glassdoor community to plot your next career move and make the most of your work Life. All@glassdoor.com VantageScore is the fastest growing and most predictive credit score used by 8 out of the 10 largest banks and over 34 banks, fintechs and other companies nationwide. VantageScore is mandated for use for mortgages. Funded by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, VantageScore drives financial inclusions by scoring approximately 33 million more consumers than and competitive credit scores. Vantage Score Good for Credit Credit for Good. Learn more@vantagescore.com.
- [01:04]
Kai Rysdal
You can't fire me. I well, you know how it goes from there. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysnol. It is Tuesday today, the 3rd of December. Good as always to have you along, everybody. I quit. That's it. I'm done. Not me, to be clear, but more than 3.3 million people in this economy did quit in October, slightly more than the number that left their jobs a month earlier. So we learned in the latest Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey jolts to those in the know, which was out today. Quitting can of course be a sign of a healthy economy, people thinking they can easily get another job. So quitting is not that big a deal. But those quits are not distributed evenly. In the American west, for example, the quits rate went up by more than a half percent in October. In the Northeast, meanwhile, it went down. Marketplace's Stephanie Hughes has today's economic geography lesson.
- [02:14]
Stephanie Hughes
It's a good time to be a transportation planner in Utah, says Laura McClellan, a transportation planner in Utah. There is more work out there than folks doing the work. McClellan had been working for the government of Salt Lake City. In October, she quit and moved to a regional transit agency that covers up bigger chunk of the state. Her job is to plan for the long term. You know, the American west and definitely Utah is experiencing so much growth and it's exciting to be a part of an agency that does look decades out into the future. McClellan is part of what George Mason economist Christine McDaniel refers to as churn, where a worker leaves one job and moves to another. That's a better fit. You'd like to see a lot of churn of the labor market because it means that, you know, people are getting matched up with the jobs that they can really excel in. McDaniel says churn happens when there's a lot of quitting along with a lot of hiring and job openings. This is the case right now in the Western U.S. which McDaniel describes as booming. Still, nationally, today's churn isn't the churn of 2021 or even a year ago, when there were higher levels of quits, hires and openings. This is sort of a cooling off after the kind of the frenzy of the pandemic. Christina Sargent is an economics professor at Middlebury College. She says this cooling isn't necessarily a bad thing. It helps keep inflation under control and it's a return to a job market that looks more like it did before the pandemic. Overall, it's kind of boring, right? We're going back to a normal. There's not like a ton of churn happening. There's not a lot of moving in and out. But that's okay. Sometimes you want to change everything up sometimes, she says, you want to just do the job that's in front of you. I'm Stephanie Hughes for Marketplace.
- [03:56]
Kai Rysdal
With Black Friday and Cyber Monday squarely in the rearview mirror, we are now officially in the holiday shopping season, a lot of which we've been doing online, almost $11 billion worth, says Adobe Analytics. That is a record high. The Census Bureau releases retail sales data for November in a couple of weeks, but in the meanwhile we have decided, as we often do, to give a A few of our retail regulars had called to see how things are looking on the actual ground. First up, Annie Lang Hartman, owner of the stationery and gift store Wild Letty, which is based in Leelanau County, Michigan.
- [04:29]
Stephanie Hughes
It honestly was a little bit of a slow start. We had a decent sized storm come through so in person shopping took a while to pick up this weekend. But two weeks ago we were down 70% for the month for November compared to last month. Then now we are back on track. I think our biggest challenge, which I felt was our biggest challenge this weekend, was dealing with weather affecting our in store sales. But really now that we have all of our marketing set up for the rest of the month and our inventory is looking good, I don't think we have any big challenges besides just keeping on top of online orders. And in the next couple weeks I just hope that we stay busy and stay on top of it and we're just really hopeful that this is going to be a really great holiday season.
- [05:36]
Kai Rysdal
Here's hoping. Annie Lang Hartman, owner of Wild Leady up in Leelanau County, Michigan More retailers to come through the program today On Wall street this Tuesday, meandering is how you might characterize the major indices. We'll have the details when we do the numbers. Not that it's necessarily any of my business, but if you did some shopping over the weekend, how'd you do it in person? Online? On social media, perhaps? According to TikTok Shop, that's the platform's in app marketplace, it did better than $100 million in sales on Black Friday. That is not a huge chunk, of course, of the $10 billion plus in spending on Black Friday in total, but it's a growing piece considering TikTok Shop launched here just over a year ago. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab has more now on social media's expanding push into e commerce.
- [06:43]
Stephanie Hughes
When I opened TikTok Shop, the first video that pops up is this. I am willing to bet my life savings that there will never come a day that I use another cleaning gadget more than my pressurized handheld steam cleaner. Yes, my TikTok algorithm is very cool. Thank you. Really, though, this video is your typical influencer fare, except there's a little floating link where you can add the product to your cart and check out directly through TikTok. It's very Home Shopping Network. It's very QVC. It's just on your phone. Claire Tassen, a retail analyst at Morning Consult, says brands are trying to meet consumers where they are, and social media platforms including Instagram and YouTube, want to make buying seamless while taking a cut of the sales. It's an additional revenue stream for TikTok. Beyond just the economy of people's attention. That revenue stream is still kind of small. Social commerce on marketplaces like TikTok shop make up around 5% of total e commerce sales in the U.S. diana Smith, associate director of retail at Mintel. That's partly because it's newer here. It's been popular in Asia for years, and American shoppers are a little nervous to try it out. Some consumers may not be exactly sure who they are buying from or if the platform or the brand could be trusted. But as consumers get more comfortable, social media shopping is expected to grow because Oliver Wright, who leads consumer goods and services at Accenture, says shoppers are craving direction.
- [08:12]
Kai Rysdal
Consumers consistently cite a high level of.
- [08:17]
Stephanie Hughes
Uncertainty that they are buying the product that's right fit for them. This sort of engagement helps you cut through A lot of that chaos with algorithm driven recommendations. I'm Kristen Schwab for Marketplace.
- [08:48]
Kai Rysdal
Okay, here's a seemingly random statistic. S and P Global says bankruptcies in this economy are on track to hit a 14 year high this year. You got healthcare companies on the Chapter 11 list. You've got communications companies and energy companies. And you've got restaurants. TGI Fridays, Buca di Beppo, Red Lobster, all of them went under this year. And we know restaurants have had to do a lot of adapting the past three or four years, right? Not just inflation, but the pandemic and worker shortages. And some of those restaurants as marketplaces, Sabri Benishore reports are all adapted out.
- [09:24]
Stephanie Hughes
It is martini o'clock at Union Tavern in Rochester, New York. Hi, this is Kelly Busch from the Union Tavern, just here shaking up some espresso martinis. But what has gotten shaken up far more than a martini is Bush's restaurants. There were the shortages. There's those weird fingerling potato shortages. There was inflation. There's been issues with limes and tripling in cost and now there's fewer people going out to eat. Restaurant traffic, that's the number of people visiting restaurants at a given time, is down around 3 1/2% in the US overall, according to BDO. Customers have had to deal with inflation too. In and outside of restaurants, petables patterns and behaviors have just changed. But also hanging over many restaurants is their own debt. People don't always realize the amount of debt we had to take on just to get through the first two years of the pandemic. That is on top of debt taken on to start one of Bush's restaurants just before the pandemic. That profit margin that was already really slim in the restaurant industry is just getting slimmer and slimmer, if it exists at all. It's the debt that's been the issue for many of the chains that have gone bankrupt this year. Debt that even predates the pandemic from a time when chains were trying to grow, as they were growing, they, they were taking on debt fuel the growth. A lot of private equity in our space came in. Greg Thomas is a managing director at financial advisory services firm bdo. And you know, when we hit Covid, that debt didn't disappear. And then of course interest rates rose which made some of that debt more expensive. Meanwhile, for some chains in particular, sales were hurting because their clientele was hurting. The preponderance of their customers are the lower to middle income and it's having a major impact on them. During the Restaurant boom. Late in the pandemic, restaurants with financial problems were able to paper over their issues. Now, with a downturn, they were exposed. Joe Pollack is a managing principal with restaurant advisory firm Tech Nomic. And that's why we're starting to see right now a fair amount of these bankruptcies that are coming through. He expects the parade of Chapter 11s to continue into 2025. Toast, a payment service for restaurants, surveyed its clients and found restaurant optimism varied by size. Kelly Esten is chief marketing officer at Toast. The largest restaurant groups have the highest increase in optimism. And the smallest ones, they're really dealing with challenges on guest foot traffic. Over the last year, the restaurants that are surviving have been nimble. When some of his Partico Borgia's restaurants in Dallas, Texas, had to close during the pandemic, he reinvented them as what he calls smart cafes, fully automated robotic kiosks that store and heat up meals previously prepared at his and other restaurants, where people can just come grab these foods, warm it up and eat it there, or warm it up and take it home or send an Uber guy. Burges says this kind of innovation was super important. It's essential. Without it, we would be getting out of the hospitality because we just can't find the staff. And to make things worse, real estate is stupid expensive these days. In Rochester at Union Tavern, Kelly Bush has also had to transform her business model. Doing paint nights, doing more wine tastings. We also are in a spooky old tavern from the 1800s. So we did 22 events in October. Eighteen of them sold out. But this kind of nonstop adapting is exhausting. We continue to pivot and pivot and pivot, and I think people are getting tired, tired of having to figure this industry out all over again, again and again. In New York, I'm Sabri Benishore for Marketplace.
- [13:21]
Kai Rysdal
Retail. Regular number two today is Philip Rollins, owner of the record comic and toy shop Offbeat in downtown Jackson, Mississippi. When last we heard from Mr. Rollins, he was dealing with road construction right in front of his store.
- [13:35]
Stephanie Hughes
This construction traffic has impacted our business. We were down like 70% on sales. You know, it's really due because, you know, there's no parking in front of the store. People think, I'm closed and got to make some tough decisions soon, probably by the end of the year. Thankfully, I had a decent, you know, Black Friday. I did a big sale. I did like, I had select new records for 40% off. We had a lot of exclusive titles. So there was a Billie Eilish record a Noah Kahan, a Olivia Rodrigo. We had people line up. I think the earliest person that got There was at 4am for some reason. And it was cold. It was like it was in the 30s here. The temperature finally dropped here in Mississippi, so I know he was freezing, but we didn't open till 9:00, so he stayed out there for a good bit. I hope to see the street finished and I hope to gain more customers after this week. We're going to be open seven days a week, but that'll probably last until Christmas. I may take Boxing Day off or make it a half day and be like, all right, cool, we can open up. And now I'm rested and full of family. But Boxing Day and Christmas, I'll definitely be off. Probably.
- [15:01]
Kai Rysdal
Definitely be off. Probably. You got to rest, man. Philip Rollins, the owner of Offbeat in Jackson, Mississippi.
- [15:20]
Stephanie Hughes
Coming up in the coming weeks, I'm just hoping to see sales come up.
- [15:25]
Kai Rysdal
The retailers lament. But first, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials down 76 points today, two 10%. 44,705. The Nasdaq rose 76 points. That is four. 10% on that particular index. 19,480s and P 500 basically flat 6,049 there. We've been talking to retailers today. Small ones. Let's look at some big ones, shall we? Target up 6, 10%. Macy's down 2.7% today. Best Buy Power down about 2 and a 10%. Heard from Sabri about restaurant chains going bankrupt. Here's some restaurant brands International, parent company of Burger King and Popeyes, grew 1 and 6, 10%. Not bankrupt. To be clear, Darden Restaurants, which owns Red Lobster, dropped 7. 10% today. Over in South Korea, the won lost about 1% after the days or evenings over their events. You're listening to Marketplace. Hey, it's Kai. My minivan and I, as I've said on the radio, have logged a lot of miles with Marketplace. Luckily, it's still running, you know, pretty well. But if your car doesn't drive as well as it used to, listen up. It can still help drive Marketplace. When you donate your old car or truck. We'll use the proceeds to support the great programs you hear every day. Start your vehicle donation@marketplace.org vehicle this is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. You think diesel fuel, you think dirty, right? Lots of particulates, all of that. It may be time, though, to adjust your emissions expectations. Renewable diesel is becoming more common and cleaner products, either renewable or diesel biodiesel are almost 10% of the diesel market now, but use of this less carbon intensive fuel is concentrated in certain specific places. Marketplace Elizabeth Troval has more on the where's and whys of the renewable diesel market.
- [17:18]
Stephanie Hughes
Old cooking oil and animal fat is increasingly fueling big rigs and heavy duty vehicles. Renewable diesel is a hydrocarbon biofuel that.
- [17:29]
Kai Rysdal
Is chemically similar to petroleum diesel.
- [17:33]
Stephanie Hughes
Brian Mosier is a chemist with the Agricultural Research Service, but is made from vegetable oils or animal fats instead of crude petroleum oil, and trucks run fine on it. That also means there's no need to change transportation infrastructure, says Jeff Short with the American Transportation Research Institute. You can deploy renewable diesel through existing fuel pumps. I've heard from some carriers who now only get renewable diesel at their terminal in their pumps, and it was no issue. They just dropped that right in. So it's an easy switch for a smaller carbon footprint, says University of Illinois economist Scott Irwin.
- [18:15]
Kai Rysdal
It is a much cleaner fuel from.
- [18:19]
Stephanie Hughes
A greenhouse gas perspective.
- [18:20]
Kai Rysdal
There's just no doubt about that.
- [18:22]
Stephanie Hughes
What there is doubt about is the future of renewable diesel, which is more expensive than regular diesel to produce.
- [18:29]
Kai Rysdal
Renewable diesel is a creature of public policies, so it can live or die, depending on how generous those subsidies are.
- [18:43]
Stephanie Hughes
And that will be up to the Trump administration. But Irwin says state subsidies like those in California, are likely to continue. Jimmy Trotterman is with the Energy Information Administration. There's been significant growth in California, and that's starting to begin elsewhere on the West Coast. There's also been modest increases on the east coast this year. I'm Elizabeth Troval for Marketplace.
- [19:22]
Kai Rysdal
The good people at Cox Automotive tell us that Americans bought a bit more than 106,000 electric vehicles in October. That's up almost 7% from a year ago, and it keeps EV sales on track for their biggest year ever in this country. More EVs, of course, mean more drivers are looking for places to charge said EVs, and right now for most of them, that's easiest to do. If you live in a home with a garage or a car driveway someplace you can install a home charger. But there are more than 45 million households in this country that rent, many of them in multifamily buildings. And being able to charge at their apartment complexes would be great. But as Marketplace's Henriett reports, that presents some challenges, both for renters and for apartment developers.
- [20:05]
Stephanie Hughes
About two blocks from his apartment in Burlington, Vermont, Philip Kiefers parked his Chevy Bolt under a utility pole 12ft above.
- [20:14]
Kai Rysdal
Us on a telephone pole.
- [20:15]
Stephanie Hughes
Is this Black box with a plug sticking out of it. It looks kind of like a gas nozzle, and when you turn it on, it comes falling out of the sky. He pulls the plug across the hood of his car to the charging port, plugs it in, and within a few hours, his car should be fully charged because he can't charge at the apartment he rents. Kieffer's mapped out all of the public chargers in his neighborhood, like this one, which is owned by the city. His he's got options, but they're all at least a few minutes walk from his apartment. But just around the corner from here, tenants of a different apartment complex won't need to leave their building at all on frigid Vermont days. Through the garage door underneath one Lake View is a private parking deck with an impressive view of Lake Champlain in the distant Adirondack Mountains. And charging options for EV owners. Yeah, so we, we have a couple of juice box EV charging stations here. Building owner Eric Hoekstra says the two chargers are available for no extra cost to tenants who pay for a spot in this garage. It's been that way since the building opened in 2019, he says. Since then, demand for charging among his tenants has grown, Hoekstra says, so he's adding chargers to five older properties he runs in the area. And compared to building them up front, the that's complicated. You've got to wire it in, and you've got to have a pretty robust electrical service. If you're putting stations outside, you might be doing site work and excavating, you know, to put a conduit in the ground and run the power out to a parking lot. The costs, he says, add up something that more apartment managers around the country are learning the words getting out to apartment managers that you really want to future proof your development. It's so much cheaper to do this upfront when you're building new construction. Jeff Allen is executive director of a nonprofit called Fourth, which advocates for electrifying transportation. He says charging is likely going to be an increasingly popular amenity. Last year, the National Multifamily Housing council found that 34% of tenants want EV chargers in their building. That's 7 percentage points higher than the previous year. But Allen says demand varies a lot by region. If I'm in San Jose, California, and I manage apartments, I need to be providing charging today. If I'm in Leavenworth, Kansas, and I manage an apartment building, I might have 10 years. Whatever timeline they're on, apartment owners can tap into incentive programs from utilities cities states and at least for now, the federal government. The Inflation Reduction act includes a tax credit that developers can use for EV charging in certain circumstances, but that might not last under the next Trump administration, says Ingrid Malmgren with the nonprofit Plug in America. I think what we're going to see is we're going to see a shift from efforts at the federal level to efforts at state and municipality levels, county levels, working with partners who are interested in moving this forward. And there are a lot of states who are committed to this, including Vermont. Funds from the state and the local electric utility are supporting the charging systems. Property manager Eric Hoekstra is working to install with an eye towards the future. I won't be surprised if within the next decade or so something like half of the vehicles out there are going to need access to charging of some type. Until other developers get on board, he says he'll have a leg up Attracting tenants in Burlington, Vermont I'm Henry Epp for Marketplace.
- [24:11]
Kai Rysdal
Rounding out our retail check ins today, Dylan Demery, owner and co founder of She's Fly, that's a fly fishing shop for women based in Fort Collins, Colorado.
- [24:21]
Stephanie Hughes
Right now business is slowing down a bit. Actually we came off of our season ending right around mid November and things slowed down quite a bit and now it's starting to pick up for the holidays. So we just went through Black Friday and we had some some good movement on our site and had some orders come through. So that's been nice. But we are experiencing a bit of a lull compared to last year. I think we noticed that with social media and email marketing we've seen a drop in engagement just in the last month and a half. So we're wondering if that's going to pick back up and we're keeping an eye on that in the coming weeks. I'm just hoping to see sales come up. We have some community events that we do to keep engaged with our clients and just keep being there for them. It has been our most successful year on record, so I think anything that happens during the holiday season is just going to help us go even further.
- [25:29]
Kai Rysdal
Dylan Demery she's fly as the shop is in Fort Collins, Colorado this final note on the way out today in which the worlds of professional football and prepackaged soups come together. The Washington Commanders under much longed for new ownership announced today they've hired the CEO of the Campbell's Company, which until like a month ago was called Campbell's Soup Company as their new president and CEO, said the announcement in relevant part. Mark Klaus he's the new guy has a quote, stellar track record in building brands that connect deeply with consumers and ultimately delivering best in class experiences and lasting memories. Just like soup, right? Our Digital and On Demand team includes Kerry Barber, Jordan Manji, Dylan Metanen, Janet Wen, Olga Oxman, Ellen Rolfus, Virginia K. Smith, and Tony Wagner. Francesca Levy is the Executive Director of Digital and On Demand and I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow. Everybody, this is apm.
- [27:05]
Stephanie Hughes
Hi, this is Michael from Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania. Marketplace is both enjoyable and extremely informative.
- [27:13]
Kai Rysdal
Kai and the reporters go out to.
- [27:15]
Stephanie Hughes
All kinds of people in the community.
- [27:17]
Kai Rysdal
And they ask straight ahead questions like.
- [27:19]
Stephanie Hughes
How are you holding up these days?
- [27:22]
Kai Rysdal
It's very personal and as we listen we get a good sense of the challenges people face as they are trying.
- [27:28]
Stephanie Hughes
To make it from day to day.
- [27:30]
Kai Rysdal
I listen to the Marketplace podcasts every day and have been doing so for a number of years. It's a breath of fresh air that helps me understand the economic world better. Join me by making a gift to marketplace@marketplace.org donate.