What does the crypto industry want?

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "What Does the Crypto Industry Want?"

Episode Title: What Does the Crypto Industry Want?
Host: Amy Scott (in place of Kai Ryssdal)
Release Date: November 11, 2024

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1. Crypto Industry's Post-Election Ambitions

The episode opens with a bold upturn in the cryptocurrency market, highlighted by Bitcoin's surge to a record-breaking price of over $87,000 post-election. This rally is attributed to the crypto industry's substantial investment in supporting pro-crypto candidates, including President-elect Donald Trump. Trump has pledged to transform the United States into the global hub for cryptocurrency, with his family launching a new crypto business, World Liberty Financial.

Regulatory Clarity Sought

Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer at Coinbase, expresses optimism following the election. At [02:29], he states, “Coinbase would now like to see the new Congress pass new laws, including one that would clearly define what crypto assets are and who exactly is in charge of making the rules governing them.” This call for clear legislation reflects the industry's shift towards seeking structured regulatory frameworks.

Focus on Stablecoins

Dante Disparte, Chief Strategy Officer at Circle, emphasizes the need for specific laws around stablecoins—digital currencies pegged to fiat currencies like the dollar. At [03:01], Disparte explains, “A US Law would mean existing international laws wouldn’t dictate how digital dollars are regulated.” This regulatory clarity is crucial for companies like Circle to operate effectively within the US market.

Maturation of the Crypto Industry

Gil Luria from DA Davidson highlights that the industry's push for regulation signifies its maturation. At [03:42], Disparte adds, “All of us are begging for sensible standards that would allow us to get back to building great products and services and spend less time and frankly less money arguing over legal definitions and statutes.”

2. Inflation Trends and Federal Reserve Uncertainty

Kristen Schwab discusses the recent trends in inflation, with the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for October showing a consistent rise of 2.10% month-over-month for three consecutive months. This persistence suggests that the Federal Reserve's efforts to reduce annual inflation to its 2% target may be stalling.

Economic Implications

At [05:22], Disparte notes, “This slowdown of progress towards the target rate becomes more of a feature over the course of this year than some sort of statistical quirk.” This sustained inflation rate poses a dilemma for the Federal Reserve, which is now uncertain about the next steps regarding interest rate adjustments.

Labor Market Dynamics

Raghuram Rajan from the University of Chicago points out shifts in the labor market, such as fewer job openings and reduced employee turnover, which may influence wage inflation. Kristen Schwab mentions at [06:11], “Fewer people quitting and fewer job openings might make the Fed more confident that wage growth won’t outpace inflation.”

Federal Reserve's Dilemma

With inflation progress slowing, the Federal Reserve faces uncertainty. At [05:45], Schwab states, “The Fed seems to be uncertain about what they'll do,” reflecting the broader financial market's uncertainty regarding future Federal Reserve actions.

3. Rising Beef Prices: Supply and Demand Factors

Justin Ho reports on the significant increase in beef prices, driven by both supply constraints and rising production costs. Cattle futures surged nearly 10% between August and October, influenced by prolonged drought conditions in key cattle-producing regions like the Dakotas, Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma.

Impact of Drought

Naomi Bloom explains at [07:19], “Drought conditions affect cattle production because cows like to spend their waking hours grazing and droughts mean less hay.” This reduction in available feed leads ranchers to limit herd sizes, directly impacting beef supply.

Rising Production Costs

Glenn Tonser adds at [07:45], “Whether it is feed costs, labor costs, land rent, almost all of those entries are going to be higher than they were certainly before the pandemic.” Increased costs across the board contribute to higher beef prices.

Sustained Demand

Despite rising prices, consumer demand for beef remains strong. At [08:14], Tonser notes, “We've actually seen a small growth since February 2020 in that,” indicating that consumers are adjusting their purchasing habits but continue to buy beef, supporting price levels.

Potential Price Moderation Factors

Bloom mentions at [08:24], “Cattle imports are up from countries including Australia, Brazil, and Uruguay, and the weather could always improve,” suggesting that increased imports and favorable weather conditions could help moderate prices in the future. However, any new beef supply would take years to impact the market significantly.

4. Long Covid Research Struggles

Samantha Fields delves into the ongoing challenges in addressing long Covid, despite the allocation of over $1.5 billion to the NIH's Recover program. Patients and advocates express frustration over the slow progress and lack of approved treatments.

Patient Experiences

Charlie McCone shares his prolonged battle with long Covid, highlighting the personal toll and the gap between expectations and outcomes. At [09:48], he states, “I’m still sick. I’m not working anymore and can’t walk much more than a block.”

Research Focus Criticism

Betsy Ladize of The Sick Times criticizes the NIH's focus on understanding long Covid rather than developing treatments. At [11:00], she asserts, “Most of the research money so far has gone into trying to learn more about what long Covid is rather than focusing on treatments, clinical trials.”

Need for Treatment-Oriented Research

Dr. Serena Spudich from Yale emphasizes the necessity of understanding long Covid to develop effective treatments. At [11:27], she states, “There has to be a very, very strong urgency for finding treatments, and at the same time, we will only find treatments if we understand the condition properly.”

Calls for Increased Funding and Strategic Trials

David Petrino advocates for a more diversified and rapid approach to clinical trials, suggesting at [12:50], “We need to be rapidly testing as many drug targets as possible rather than taking big swings.” Additionally, legislators are pushing for the Long Covid Research Moonshot Act, which aims to provide $1 billion annually for a decade to accelerate research.

5. Stock Market Overview

Amy Scott provides an update on the stock market, noting that the Dow Jones Industrial Average reached a record high, while the Nasdaq and S&P 500 saw modest gains. Significant movements include AbbVie's 12% drop following disappointing Phase II trial results for an experimental schizophrenia drug, contrasted by Bristol Myers Squibb's 10.5% increase after FDA approval of its own schizophrenia drug.

Market Performance Highlights

At [14:20], Scott reports, “The Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 304.7 points, finishing at a record 44,293.” This surge reflects broader market confidence despite sector-specific challenges.

Sector Volatility

AbbVie's decline contrasts sharply with Bristol Myers Squibb’s rise, illustrating the volatility within the pharmaceutical sector. Additionally, Cigna's 7.3% jump after announcing it will not pursue a merger with Humana highlights significant investor reactions to corporate decisions.

6. Climate Tech Challenges Ahead

Michelle Ma discusses the significant decline in funding for climate tech, with investments projected to drop by approximately 50% this year. This downturn is driven by the capital-intensive nature of climate tech and a shift in investor focus towards the burgeoning field of artificial intelligence (AI).

Investment Decline Factors

Naomi Bloom attributes the reduction to the high capital requirements and perceived risks associated with climate tech startups. At [18:37], she explains, “These are startups that are often not dealing with software, they're dealing with hardware, with massive facilities and factories that they have to stand up.”

AI’s Dominance in Investment

Bloom highlights that AI has been “sucking all the oxygen” from the investment arena, diverting capital away from climate tech. At [20:31], she notes, “AI is kind of sucking all the oxygen,” indicating that investor enthusiasm has shifted towards AI-driven innovations, often at the expense of climate-focused initiatives.

Policy Support Uncertainty

With Donald Trump’s reelection, there are concerns about the potential rollback of federal support for clean energy projects. Bloom emphasizes the critical timing for scaling climate tech and warns that the removal of federal incentives could severely hinder progress. At [22:15], she states, “If those federal dollars disappear, if those tax credits disappear, that could make a huge difference in how much progress we're able to make or not make.”

Future Prospects

Despite funding challenges, there remains cautious optimism within the climate tech community. The introduction of innovative technologies such as carbon capture, green hydrogen, and advanced battery chemistries continues to drive the sector forward, albeit with the need for sustained investment and supportive policies.

7. U.S. Forest Service Budget Cuts

Caitlin Tan reports on the anticipated budget cuts to the U.S. Forest Service, particularly affecting the Bridger Teton National Forest. The cuts threaten to reduce the agency's funding by about half a billion dollars, impacting critical services like trail maintenance and campground facilities.

Operational Challenges

Scott Kosiba of Friends of the Bridger Teton explains how the nonprofit has been instrumental in maintaining services by contracting out work at a fraction of the federal cost. At [25:06], Kosiba states, “They agreed to do the job at about a third of that $120,000.”

Impact of Budget Cuts

With Congress yet to finalize the budget, the future of essential services at Bridger Teton remains uncertain. The nonprofit's role becomes increasingly vital as federal funding dwindles, ensuring that visitors can still access clean and safe facilities. At [27:32], Caitlin Tan emphasizes, “It is astounding that a nonprofit has to exist to help fund and help support a federal land management agency.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Marketplace provides an insightful exploration of the crypto industry's regulatory aspirations in the wake of a significant election, the ongoing challenges of inflation and economic uncertainty, the dynamics behind rising beef prices, the persistent hurdles in long Covid research, fluctuating stock market trends, the downturn in climate tech investments amidst AI's rise, and the critical budgetary pressures on the U.S. Forest Service. Through expert interviews and detailed reporting, the episode offers a comprehensive understanding of these multifaceted economic and industry-specific issues.

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Notable Quotes:

• Paul Grewal [02:29]: “Coinbase would now like to see the new Congress pass new laws, including one that would clearly define what crypto assets are and who exactly is in charge of making the rules governing them.”

• Dante Disparte [03:42]: “All of us are begging for sensible standards that would allow us to get back to building great products and services and spend less time and frankly less money arguing over legal definitions and statutes.”

• Naomi Bloom [07:19]: “Drought conditions affect cattle production because cows like to spend their waking hours grazing and droughts mean less hay.”

• Charlie McCone [09:57]: “I’m still sick. I’m not working anymore and can’t walk much more than a block.”

• David Petrino [12:50]: “We need to be rapidly testing as many drug targets as possible rather than taking big swings.”

• Naomi Bloom [20:31]: “AI is kind of sucking all the oxygen.”

• Caitlin Tan [27:32]: “It is astounding that a nonprofit has to exist to help fund and help support a federal land management agency.”

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the original podcast.

Transcript

[Naomi Bloom]

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[Glenn Tonser]

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[Amy Scott]

On the show Today the crypto industry looks to cash in on its election bets. The latest on inflation plus what the rise of AI means for climate investment. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Baltimore. I'm Amy Scott in for Kai rysdal. It's Monday, November 11th. Good to have you with us. Bitcoin continued its post election rally today, hitting a record price of more than $87,000. The cryptocurrency industry spent millions of dollars to help elect pro crypto candidates this election, including President Elect Donald Trump, who promised to make the United States the crypto capital of the planet and whose family has a new crypto business world Liberty Financial. Marketplace's Stephanie Hughes has more on what the industry wants in the next four years.

[Paul Grewal]

Coinbase is one of the largest crypto exchanges in the world. Paul Grewal is its chief legal officer and he is feeling good right now.

[Dante Disparte]

Biggest winner last week was crypto.

[Paul Grewal]

This comes after the Biden administration took a pretty aggressive approach to crypto. Greywall says Coinbase would now like to see the new Congress pass new laws, including one that would clearly define what crypto assets are and who exactly is in charge of making the rules governing them. He says A lot of crypto companies want this.

[Dante Disparte]

All of us are begging for sensible standards that would allow us to get back to building great products and services and spend less time and frankly less money arguing over legal definitions and statutes.

[Paul Grewal]

Coinbase and another big crypto company Circle are also hungering for a law around stablecoins. These are digital currencies. Their value is linked to an existing asset, often a fiat currency such as the dollar. Circle issues stablecoins that include digital dollars and digital euros. Dante Disparte is chief strategy officer and head of global policy for the company. He says a US Law would mean existing international laws wouldn't dictate how digital.

[Dante Disparte]

Dollars are regulated, because for so many operators around the world, you know, the real missing Link has been U.S. legal and regulatory clarity.

[Paul Grewal]

This desire for rules represents a maturing of the industry after some in it have faced legal action, says Gil Luria with DA Davidson.

[Dante Disparte]

I mean, I think early on in the crypto industry, people didn't want regulation because part of the ethos was this decentralized we can do whatever we want wherever we want. And then people started going to jail and everybody realized, well, I can't actually do whatever I want whenever I want.

[Paul Grewal]

Luria says rules will help those in the industry figure out what they can do because there will be clear laws to guide them. I'm Stephanie Hughes for Marketplace on Wall street today.

[Amy Scott]

Green across the board. We'll have the details when we do the number. Looking ahead this week, we'll get the latest read on inflation. The consumer price index for October comes out on Wednesday. For each of the last three months, the CPI has been pretty consistent, rising by 2.10percent month to month. Analysts are expecting a similar increase in this next report, which would mean the Federal Reserve's progress on getting annual inflation down to its target of 2% may be stalling out. Marketplace's Kristen Schwab has more.

[Kristen Schwab]

One month of weird inflation data is just one month. But Sean Snaith, who directs the University of Central Florida's Institute for Economic Forecasting, says a few months is eyebrow raising.

[Dante Disparte]

This slowdown of progress towards the target rate become more of a feature over the course of this year than some sort of statistical quirk, he says.

[Kristen Schwab]

A slowdown isn't a terrible thing, but it's not a good thing either, which might have the Fed holding its breath. Bill English, a former Fed official, says usually at Fed meetings, we get an idea of what's in store at the next one. But last week, you know, I don't.

[Dante Disparte]

Think we really did. They left the door open to either.

[Glenn Tonser]

Cut further or not.

[Kristen Schwab]

The Fed seems to be uncertain about what they'll do. Financial markets seem uncertain, too, and there's the uncertainty a new administration brings. New policies could shift the job market or inflation itself, which might give the Fed reason to pause.

[Dante Disparte]

They're going to wait and see what the administration actually proposes and what gets through Congress and so on.

[Kristen Schwab]

The other part of the Fed's dual mandate, jobs, has been a little confusing, too. Raghuram Rajan at the University of Chicago says there are fewer openings and fewer people quitting.

[Glenn Tonser]

And that's something that has the Fed sort of convinced that we're moving in.

[Kristen Schwab]

The right direction because it means wages are less likely to outpace inflation. On the other hand, unemployment is low, consumer spending is strong, all good for.

[Glenn Tonser]

The economy, but it extends the period over which the Fed has to keep rates higher. In other words, while the Fed is cutting right now, it might have to cut at a slower pace to make.

[Kristen Schwab]

Sure inflation doesn't stall but keeps coming down. I'm Kristin Schwab for Marketplace.

[Amy Scott]

Whatever we learn about inflation this week, one thing we do know is that beef prices have been going up. The price of cattle futures rose almost 10% between the end of August and the end of October, as Marketplace's Justin Ho reports. We can thank the usual suspects. Supply and demand.

[Naomi Bloom]

Over the last few months, it's been particularly dry in cattle country, the western.

[Glenn Tonser]

Dakotas, a large portion of Kansas and Nebraska and most of Oklahoma.

[Naomi Bloom]

That's Naomi Bloom, senior market advisor at Total Farm Marketing. She says drought conditions affect cattle production because cows like to spend their waking hours grazing and droughts mean less hay.

[Glenn Tonser]

So when you are in a situation like that as a rancher, you're going to limit the number of herd that you have because there's only so much feed available.

[Naomi Bloom]

Smaller herd sizes aren't the only factor pushing up beef prices. Glenn Tonser, a professor at Kansas State University, says production costs have been rising, too.

[Dante Disparte]

Whether it is feed costs, labor costs, land rent, almost all of those entries are going to be higher than they were certainly before the pandemic.

[Naomi Bloom]

And while beef supplies have been dwindling, demand has stayed strong. Tonzer surveys consumers about their meat consumption, and he says while people are trading down buying more hamburger meat instead of steak, for instance, they're still buying beef.

[Dante Disparte]

We've actually seen a small growth since February 2020 in that, and that's very consistent with the public wanting to keep meat in their diet and making some adjustments to pull that off, there are.

[Naomi Bloom]

A couple of factors that could keep a lid on prices. Naomi Bloom at Total Farm Marketing says cattle imports are up from countries including Australia, Brazil and Urugu, and the weather could always improve.

[Glenn Tonser]

If we have good rains over the winter, if we have good snowfall over the winter and pasture conditions improve, then we could start to see the US Rancher want to and have confidence to increase their herd size.

[Naomi Bloom]

But even if that happens, Bloom says it would take years for any new meat to hit the market. I'm Justin Ho for Marketplace.

[Amy Scott]

Nearly five years after the start of the COVID 19 pandemic, many are still struggling with the lasting effects of long Covid. And while the federal government has poured more than one and a half billion dollars into a long Covid research program at the National Institutes of Health called recover patients, advocates and researchers have been frustrated with the progress. Marketplace's Samantha Fields has that story.

[Samantha Fields]

When Charlie McCone got Covid in March of 2020, he was 30, healthy and fit. His doctors told him he'd get better in a couple of weeks, but he didn't.

[Dante Disparte]

I found a Facebook group with thousands of other people asking, what's going on? And I was like, oh, my God, this is happening to so many other people.

[Samantha Fields]

It was already becoming clear then that Covid could cause serious, lasting issues for people, including debilitating fatigue and brain fog. And because there was so much attention on Covid at the time, there was.

[Dante Disparte]

A lot of hope about the response to long Covid. I think the first two years, especially.

[Samantha Fields]

Once Congress allocated over $1 billion to the National Institutes of Health for long Covid research in late 2020, there was.

[Dante Disparte]

I think, this feeling that we're going to have answers here in a few years.

[Samantha Fields]

Today, McCone is still sick. He's not working anymore and can't walk much more than a block. Roughly 20 million people in the US are now estimated to have long Covid. And that billion dollars NIH got for long Covid research has yielded few answers and zero approved treatment so far.

[Naomi Bloom]

There's been a lot of disappointment in terms of the program moving slowly and.

[Glenn Tonser]

Also focusing a lot on the kind.

[Naomi Bloom]

Of observational side of things.

[Samantha Fields]

Betsy Ladize is co founder of the Sick Times, a nonprofit news site focused on long Covid. She says most of the research money so far has gone into trying to learn more about what long Covid is.

[Glenn Tonser]

Rather than what many people in the.

[Naomi Bloom]

Patient community and also the research community.

[Glenn Tonser]

Really want, which is focus on treatments, clinical trials.

[Samantha Fields]

There's good reason for that, according to Dr. Serena Spudich. She's a neurologist and researcher at Yale who's working with the Recover program.

[Naomi Bloom]

There has to be a very, very strong urgency for finding treatments, and at the same time, we will only find treatments if we understand the condition properly.

[Samantha Fields]

And understand what's causing the many different kinds of symptoms people are having.

[Naomi Bloom]

Long Covid is not one condition. And it's very, very possible, I would even say likely, that different forms of long Covid may actually be due to different types of biologic mechanisms that need different treatments.

[Samantha Fields]

Outside researchers agree that these kinds of studies are critical, but some say the NIH didn't need to spend nearly a billion dollars on them. Dr. Ziad Ali at the VA St Louis Healthcare System says his team and others did similar research earlier in the.

[Glenn Tonser]

Pandemic for peanuts for literally a few hundred thousand dollars. That generated evidence much more robustly faster years ahead of recover for a small, small, small, small fraction of the funds.

[Samantha Fields]

And at this point, more than four.

[Glenn Tonser]

Years in NIH should be laser focused, laser focused on finding treatment for long Covid.

[Samantha Fields]

That will be a bigger focus going forward. NIH got another $515 million this year for recover and says much of it will be going toward clinical trials. David Petrino, who does long Covid research at Mount Sinai in New York, says how the trials are designed will be critical.

[Dante Disparte]

What we need to be doing is rapidly testing as many drug targets as possible rather than taking big swings.

[Samantha Fields]

Meaning instead of putting all the funding into just a few big expensive trials of a couple of drugs, he says, recover could do a bunch of smaller.

[Dante Disparte]

Trials for a couple million dollars apiece. They could be testing 100 drugs, and they could be moving into more sophisticated clinical trial strategies. That is where I think we should be applying the money.

[Samantha Fields]

Many long COVID patients are cautiously optimistic about this next phase of research, including Charlie McCone. He now volunteers with a group called the Patient Led Research Collaborative.

[Dante Disparte]

The NIH can do this right, they have to do this right, and they need to do it fast, which we know is possible.

[Samantha Fields]

But he also says no matter what comes of this current slate of funding, more is going to be needed.

[Dante Disparte]

Just because this first billion dollars didn't produce much does not mean the next billion and the next billion won't.

[Samantha Fields]

Some legislators are already pushing for additional funding. They've introduced the long Covid research moonshot act in both the House and Senate. It would provide a billion dollars a year for 10 years for long Covid research. I'm Samantha Fields for market.

[Amy Scott]

Coming up.

[Naomi Bloom]

It's not a sexy part of keeping access for the public, but it is so, so important.

[Amy Scott]

That's one way to put it. But first, let's do the numbers. The Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 304.7 10% of finish at a record 44,293. The Nasdaq rose 11 points, less than 1. 10%. And at 19,298, the S&P 500 rose 5 points, a 10th percent to close at 60.01. Pharmaceutical company AbbVie dropped more than 12% after its experimental schizophrenia drug reported disappointing results in Phase two trials. Competitor Bristol Myers Squibb, whose own schizophrenia drug was a approved by the FDA in September, grew 10 and a half percent. Health insurer Cigna shot up 7 and 3, 10%. The company said it will not be pursuing a merger with rival humana. Humana was down 2%. On the news, bond prices rose. The Yield on the 10 year T note fell to 4.30%. You're listening to Marketplace.

[Michelle Ma]

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[Amy Scott]

This is Marketplace. I'm Amy Scott. COP 29 is underway in Azerbaijan. Leaders from nearly 200 countries are gathering for the latest international climate talks, known as the Conference of the Parties. This year's COP is focused on finance, specifically how much money wealthier countries will contribute to help developing nations cope with the climate crisis. Donald Trump's reelection raises serious doubts about how much the US Government will participate in global climate action in the coming years. And here at home, the transition to a cleaner economy is facing another declining interest from investors in climate tech. Startup reporter Michelle Ma wrote about it at Bloomberg. Welcome to the program.

[Naomi Bloom]

Thanks for having me.

[Amy Scott]

What are we talking about when we talk about climate tech? Can you give some examples of the startups in this space?

[Naomi Bloom]

Well, climate tech is a really broad term, and I think traditionally what you think of when you think of climate tech are solar, wind, renewables, things like that. But it's really expanded broadly to carbon capture technology, to green hydrogen, to nuclear fusion, and all sorts of new battery chemistries that are being developed every day. So it's really, really a broad sector.

[Amy Scott]

So a lot of opportunities to invest. But as you reported, funding for climate tech has been falling on track to drop about 50% this year. What are some of the factors behind that?

[Naomi Bloom]

Number one, it's a very capital intensive sector. These are startups that are often not dealing with software, they're dealing with hardware, with massive facilities and factories that they have to stand up. And then number two is they're considered by some investors to be riskier than other technologies because they're still kind of in that early stage of development, just moving from the pilot, from the bench, from the lab to commercial scale, and in many cases, still not yet generating any revenue. So there's a lot about all of these factors coming together that have made this year kind of a tough one for the sector.

[Amy Scott]

Now, talk about the role that AI has played in this shift, because as you quoted one investor saying, AI has sucked all the oxygen out of the room. What's going on there?

[Naomi Bloom]

I mean, you know, compounding on top of all of these things I just mentioned, what we've been seeing is the climate tech focused funds. You know, they're still focused on climate because that's what they care about. But there's a lot of what we call generalist investors. Those investors have been told, you know, actually, we want you to turn all of your attention to AI this quarter. That's what we care about. That's the buzzy new thing. And, you know, climate tech briefly had a lot of attention from tourist or generalist investors, and today that attention has.

[Glenn Tonser]

Shifted to artificial intelligence and of course.

[Amy Scott]

AI is extremely energy intensive. There's a little bit of an irony here. Is that actually going to do more damage as the money shifts from solutions to exacerbating factor in the climate crisis?

[Naomi Bloom]

That's an interesting question that we've been asking so many people in the space, and I feel like the answer is still not clear. Proponents of AI will say, actually it's a good thing for the climate sector because AI is finally showing people that there is demand for clean power. All of these hyperscalers, all of these data centers require clean, renewable energy and they want to meet their climate goals. But then on the other hand, you're seeing a lot of the opposite reaction as well, where AI is keeping natural gas online for longer than it would be otherwise, extending the life of fossil fuel plants that we might have shut down otherwise. And it's also, in this case, some investors are seeing capital that could have been funneled towards climate startups going towards buzzier AI startups instead. So there's that bit of it too, where there's competing capital needs and AI is kind of sucking all the oxygen.

[Glenn Tonser]

Out of the room.

[Amy Scott]

Well, one thing I wanted to ask you about is you write that commercializing new technologies is expensive and risky unless favorable policy support can help bring down costs and drive demand. So with the Trump administration having another go, I imagine that policy support could evaporate in terms of federal dollars that are incentivizing investment and clean tech. What do you think that could affect that could have on investing?

[Naomi Bloom]

Yeah, that's a really tough one to say right now. I think it's too early to tell. A lot of people who are hopeful in the space will tell you that a lot of the clean energy projects that are being developed that depend on federal dollars, those are being built in red states, and those are creating jobs in red states. And a lot of the policies that were passed, you know, like the Inflation Reduction act, were supported by Republicans. At the same time, you know, the best science indicates that we have a very narrow window of opportunity to turn things around right now when it comes to climate. So now is probably the most critical time for the climate tech sector to scale. If those federal dollars disappear, if those tax credits disappear, that could make a huge difference in how much progress we're able to make or not make.

[Amy Scott]

All right, Michelle Ma covers climate tech for Bloomberg. Thank you so much.

[Paul Grewal]

Thank you.

[Naomi Bloom]

Thanks for having me.

[Amy Scott]

While control of the U.S. house of Representatives is up in the air as vote counting continues, the current Congress still has some work to do. Like pass a bill to fund federal agencies. One agency bracing for cuts is the U.S. forest Service. That's expected to get about half a billion dollars less than it requested. And on top of that, supplemental funding from the inflation reduction act and the bipartisan infrastructure act is about to expire. Wyoming public radio's Caitlin Tan looks at how a partnership at Bridger Teton National Forest could be a model.

[Caitlin Tan]

Taking care of a national forest might seem like a job that involves beautiful mountain vistas and days spent on scenic trails. But sometimes the reality is more like this.

[Naomi Bloom]

It's gonna be loud, okay?

[Glenn Tonser]

So you're aware.

[Caitlin Tan]

Okay. Red Jones is in the smelly business of pumping public toilets. He and another worker are here to empty the campground outhouses in the Bridger Teton forest. He peers into the bottom of a pit toilet.

[Amy Scott]

A lot of trash bags get thrown in here loaded with stuff, bottles, cans, two cans.

[Caitlin Tan]

Wearing thick rubber gloves, Jones manually fishes out the trash and then siphons about 2,000 gallons of waste into his truck's tank. This is an annual process for 62 toilets in the western Wyoming forest, says Scott Kosiba, who heads up the nonprofit Friends of the Bridger Teton.

[Naomi Bloom]

It's not a sexy part of keeping access for the public, but it is so, so important.

[Caitlin Tan]

A little over a year ago, the toilets at campgrounds and trailheads on the Bridgerton Teton were almost locked. It would have meant thousands of campers and hikers possibly using the woods as their bathroom, Easily a public health hazard.

[Naomi Bloom]

This was absolutely a crisis situation.

[Caitlin Tan]

The federal government is limited by who and how it can negotiate contracts for work like pumping toilets. It was quoted about $120,000 for the job, which Kosiba says would have bankrupted the Bridger Teton's forest recreation budget.

[Naomi Bloom]

We're talking no trails cleared. We're talking no, you know, campground hosts.

[Caitlin Tan]

The agency's hands were tied, but they were able to essentially hire the non profit, which could then contract out with other companies. They agreed to do the job at about a third of that $120,000. The toilet stayed open and clean, thanks to workers like Rhett Jones. He shows off a remarkably clean campground outhouse.

[Naomi Bloom]

These old fly nests that were in the corners, we'd knock them out, spray them down, get your window seals, everything. Wow.

[Caitlin Tan]

I've never smelled such a nice porta potty.

[Glenn Tonser]

Wow.

[Caitlin Tan]

But it's not just tourist toilets that need a little help here in the forest. There's a never ending list for keeping up 3.4 million acres of public land. It exceeds our capacity pretty quickly. Mary Cernicek is with the Bridger Teton. She says friends of the Bridger Teton has also helped with fundraising, which a federal agency can't do. That money can go toward fixing trails, campsites, roads. The friends group also sends out outreach volunteers who warn visitors about bears and put out unattended campfires. We're no longer just the Bridger Teton National Forest trying to go at it alone. Cernichek is tight lipped about looming budget cuts, but Kosiba, in his role running the nonprofit, is not.

[Naomi Bloom]

The Forest Service is about to get its knees cut out from under it.

[Caitlin Tan]

Financially, which makes his group and volunteer frontiers even more important to the Bridger Teton's future.

[Naomi Bloom]

It is astounding that a nonprofit has to exist to help fund and help support a federal land management agency.

[Caitlin Tan]

Meanwhile, D.C. lawmakers have through December 20 to hash out a budget, leaving the forest's future in limbo in the Bridger Teton Forest in Wyoming. I'm Caitlin Tan from Marketplace.

[Amy Scott]

All right, this final note on the way out today, one more bit of context as world leaders gather at COP 29 for climate finance talks. The International Chamber of Commerce is out with a new report estimating that climate related extreme weather events over the past decade caused at least $2 trillion in global economic losses. The country most affected dollar wise the United States of America. Our daily production team includes Andy Corbin, Elise Hasan, Maria Hollenhorst, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry and Sophia Terenzio. I'm Amy Scott. Hope to see you back here tomorrow. This is apm.

[Glenn Tonser]

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