What happens if Trump brings back Schedule F?

Summary

Marketplace: What Happens If Trump Brings Back Schedule F? Marketplace Episode Released on October 31, 2024

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1. Economic Overview: Inflation and Workforce Costs Timestamp: 00:38 – 03:51

Host Kai Rysdahl opens the episode by discussing the latest economic indicators. The Personal Consumption Expenditures (PCE) Price Index revealed a favorable year-over-year inflation rate of 2.1% (00:38). Additionally, the Employment Cost Index indicated that labor costs rose by nearly 4% in the third quarter compared to the previous year, slightly tapering from prior increases but still outpacing inflation by about 2 percentage points (00:38).

Justin Ho from Marketplace highlights that maintaining a balance between inflation and wage growth hinges on increasing worker productivity. Preston Mouy, a senior economist with Employ America, underscores that productivity has surged in six of the last seven quarters, aided by low unemployment rates and significant governmental investment in American manufacturing and supply chains (01:52; 02:11; 02:23). Tim Dewey of SGH Macro Advisors explains that the Federal Reserve views the current 4% wage growth as sustainable, provided it continues to be supported by rising productivity (02:43; 03:00).

Notable Quote:

"As long as productivity is high enough, then it will be sustainable and it will not create higher inflation."
— Preston Mouy, Senior Economist, Employ America (02:43)

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2. Energy Sector: Rise of Natural Gas Production Timestamp: 03:51 – 06:51

Elizabeth Troval reports on the significant increase in natural gas and crude oil production in key regions like the Permian Basin, Eagle Ford, and Bakken over the past decade (04:42). Letitia Gonzalez from Natural Gas Intelligence notes that advancements in fracking have substantially lowered natural gas prices, enabling the U.S. to become a net exporter of natural gas. This abundance has benefited domestic consumers by providing lower energy bills and aiding the phase-out of coal in electricity generation (05:07; 05:36).

However, Kerry King from UT Austin points out that despite its benefits, natural gas remains a hydrocarbon with environmental impacts. Decarbonizing the supply chain poses challenges, as it could reduce company profits and requires significant effort to make the industry cleaner (06:00; 06:16).

Notable Quote:

"We're not really doing anything different in terms of natural gas and making it lower carbon."
— Kerry King, UT Austin (06:12)

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3. Schedule F: Potential Reinstatement and Its Implications Timestamp: 06:51 – 20:29

Kai Rysdahl delves into the core topic of the episode: the possible reinstatement of Schedule F under a second Trump administration. Schedule F, detailed in the Heritage Foundation's "Project 2025," aims to reclassify federal workers, stripping them of civil service protections and making them political appointees (06:51).

Historical Context and the Pendleton Civil Service Act: Nancy Unger, a history professor at Santa Clara University, along with Mark Summers from the University of Kentucky, provide a historical backdrop. They explain the Spoils System established during Andrew Jackson's presidency, where federal jobs were awarded based on political loyalty rather than merit (07:47; 08:30). The detrimental effects of this system, such as inefficiency and corruption, led to the Pendleton Civil Service Act of 1883, which mandated that federal positions be awarded based on merit through competitive exams, thus professionalizing the federal workforce (10:09; 11:22).

Impact of Schedule F: Transitioning to modern implications, Justin Ho and Nancy Unger discuss how Schedule F could undermine the federal workforce by politicizing agencies. This would potentially erode the merit-based system established by the Pendleton Act, leading to decreased efficiency and increased political interference (12:15; 13:12).

Expert Opinions: Keith Hall, former commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), expresses grave concerns about Schedule F's impact on the integrity of economic data. He emphasizes that BLS data is crucial for households, businesses, and policymakers, and politicizing it could lead to biased reporting and diminished trust (16:26; 18:01). Eric Groschen, Senior Economic Advisor at Cornell ILR School and former BLS commissioner, rates his concern about Schedule F at a 10 out of 10, highlighting the risk of “spinning release narratives” and undermining the objectivity of critical economic data (18:36; 19:50).

Notable Quotes:

"It would be frustrating for them to see politics come into what they do as a manager of some of these places... you run a danger there."
— Keith Hall, Former BLS Commissioner (18:29)

"I really think that the norms in the agencies are absolutely critical to their success, and Schedule F would just really undermine those norms."
— Eric Groschen, Senior Economic Advisor, Cornell ILR School (19:50)

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4. Stock Market Updates Timestamp: 13:51 – 16:26

Briefly, Kai Rysdahl provides a snapshot of the stock market's performance:

• Dow Industrial: Down 378.9 points (-1.10%)
• NASDAQ: Dropped 512 points (-2.25%)
• S&P 500: Fell 108 points (-1.18%)

Tech giants saw significant declines:

• Meta (Facebook): -4%
• Microsoft: -6%
• Alphabet (Google): -1.9%

Automotive sector news includes Ford halting production of its F150 Lightning due to overstock concerns, reflecting the broader slowdown in electric vehicle (EV) sales (13:51; 15:00).

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5. Farmers Market Pricing Strategies Timestamp: 20:29 – 24:42

Shifting focus, the episode explores how small-scale farmers manage pricing at markets. Catherine Wheeler from North Country Public Radio reports on initiatives by Cornell University researchers to develop weekly pricing reports. These reports aim to assist farmers in setting competitive and profitable prices by analyzing data from multiple markets.

Matt LaRue of Cornell explains that the tool eliminates guesswork by providing weighted average prices, helping farmers like Morgan Leeson balance affordability with sustainability (22:02; 23:07). This system supports farmers who typically rely on wholesale orders and community-supported agriculture, enabling better financial outcomes from market sales (23:31; 24:30).

Notable Quote:

"Those markets aren't usually the way they pay their bills. They rely on wholesale orders or community supported agriculture subscriptions... earning a little more could make the markets a better investment."
— Letitia Gonzalez, Natural Gas Intelligence (24:37)

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6. Closing Economic Notes Timestamp: 24:42 – 26:04

Kai Rysdahl concludes with a nod to consumer spending, highlighting projections from the National Retail Federation that Halloween 2024 will see Americans spending over $11.5 billion. This consumer activity significantly contributes to the economy, showcasing the ongoing vitality of retail sectors (26:04).

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Conclusion This episode of Marketplace provides a comprehensive examination of potential policy changes under a second Trump administration, specifically the reinstitution of Schedule F, and its broader implications on the federal workforce and economic data integrity. Additionally, the podcast offers insights into current economic indicators, energy sector developments, stock market movements, and innovative solutions for small-scale farmers. Through expert interviews and detailed analysis, Marketplace equips listeners with nuanced understandings of how policy and economic trends interconnect and impact everyday life.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

1. Preston Mouy:
   "As long as productivity is high enough, then it will be sustainable and it will not create higher inflation." (02:43)

2. Kerry King:
   "We're not really doing anything different in terms of natural gas and making it lower carbon." (06:12)

3. Keith Hall:
   "It would be frustrating for them to see politics come into what they do as a manager of some of these places... you run a danger there." (18:29)

4. Eric Groschen:
   "I really think that the norms in the agencies are absolutely critical to their success, and Schedule F would just really undermine those norms." (19:50)

5. Letitia Gonzalez:
   "Those markets aren't usually the way they pay their bills. They rely on wholesale orders or community supported agriculture subscriptions... earning a little more could make the markets a better investment." (24:37)

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For more detailed insights and ongoing economic news, tune into Marketplace daily with host Kai Rysdahl.

Transcript

[Justin Ho]

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[Kai Rysdahl]

Personnel is policy. That's the expression right? From American Public Media, this is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kai rysdolf. Thursday Today, October 31 Good as always to have you along everybody. A distinctly not scary number on inflation today, 2.1% year over year. So we learned from the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index, which was out this morning. So you know that's good. Along with it, we got another key indicator the Fed keeps a close eye on the Employment Cost Index, which showed that in the third quarter it was almost 4% more expensive to employ somebody than than it was a year earlier. That is a slower rate of increase than the previous quarter, but still, as you can tell, about 2 percentage points ahead of inflation. The challenge here, of course, is keeping inflation and wages, wages being the key component of employee costs, right? It's keeping them in some kind of balance. As Marketplace's Justin Ho reports, the secret sauce to that is making workers more productive.

[Preston Mouy]

According to the Labor Department, productivity has grown in six of the last seven quarters. One reason unemployment is low, people are actually working, which means they have time.

[Justin Ho]

To move from lower productivity jobs to higher paying, higher productivity jobs. And they get time to train up in their new occupations.

[Preston Mouy]

That's Preston Mouy, senior economist with the research group Employ America. He says the government's also invested a lot in American manufacturing. Plus supply chains have improved. So Moi says workers are more efficient.

[Justin Ho]

We're seeing an uptick in the growth rate of productivity, which means that we're seeing a fall in the growth rate of costs.

[Preston Mouy]

And that means businesses have fewer reasons to raise prices and that bosses can pay their workers more.

[Kai Rysdahl]

This is basic, I would say a very basic building block of how we would think about sustainable wages over time.

[Preston Mouy]

That's Tim Dewey, chief US Economist at SGH Macro Advisors. He says this is how the Federal Reserve thinks about sustainable wage growth. Earlier this month, Fed Governor Christopher Waller said wage growth could sit comfortably at around 4% or even more because productivity keeps growing.

[Kai Rysdahl]

As long as productivity is high enough, then it will be sustainable and it.

[Preston Mouy]

Will not create higher inflation. But it's not a given that productivity will keep growing. Sarah House, a senior economist at Wells Fargo.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Productivity is very volatile on a quarter.

[Elizabeth Troval]

To quarter or even year to year basis.

[Preston Mouy]

House says there are plenty of reasons to believe that productivity will stay strong. A big one is that the tight labor market of the last several years prompted employers to invest in upgrades, new.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Software that make workers more efficient. Also increased spending on research and development.

[Nancy Unger]

That can help that next big innovation.

[Kai Rysdahl]

That can boost productivity.

[Preston Mouy]

House says that means the current pace of compensation growth at around 4% is looking pretty sustainable. I'm Justin Ho for Marketplace on Wall street today.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Frightful, actually. We'll have the details when we do the number this planet is for the foreseeable future anyway, A petroleum based economy Crude oil and natural gas, about which there is a report out today from the Energy Information Administration Fracking what it's meant for oil and natural gas production here and what it means for the US economy. Marketplace's Elizabeth Troval has that one Natural.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Gas production has more than tripled in the Permian, Eagle Ford and Bakken oil plays over the past decade, and the balance of oil and natural gas has shifted more towards natural gas. Trinity Manning Pickett is with the Energy Information Administration.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

As more crude oil is being produced.

[Elizabeth Troval]

From these wells, more natural gas will.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

Come to the surface over time.

[Elizabeth Troval]

It's been an exciting decade in the industry. Natural Gas Intelligence's Letitia Gonzalez the advent.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Of shale obviously changed the game, and.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

So we've seen much lower prices since.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Then, and the US started shipping liquefied natural gas to Europe and increasingly Asia.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

That has been the biggest driver of demand here over the last several years. It's expected to continue rising over the.

[Justin Ho]

Next decade at least.

[Elizabeth Troval]

The US has actually become a net exporter of natural gas, and the cheap, abundant fuel source has been good for consumers here at home, says Timothy Fitzgerald with the University of Tennessee.

[Kai Rysdahl]

It provides a lot of choice and flexibility and helps lower consumer energy bills both for gas bills and for power bills.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Natural gas has also helped the US phase out a dirtier source of electricity, coal. But these are still hydrocarbons we're talking about. UT Austin's Kerry King.

[Justin Ho]

We're not really doing anything different in terms of natural gas and making it.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Lower carbon, he says. Even though natural gas is cheap, decarbonizing the natural gas supply chain would cut into company profits, and there's much work left to do if we want the industry to be cleaner. I'm Elizabeth Troval from Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Project 2025. You've heard of it by now, one imagines the 920 page offering from the Heritage foundation and alumni of the Trump White House, a guide for what a second Trump administration should do across all areas of immigration, education, law enforcement, also how the federal civilian workforce should be organized, specifically something called Schedule F. We will spare you the details of how Schedule F would change the Civil Service Reform act of 1978, but suffice it to say, it would turn tens of thousands of government workers currently afforded civil service protections into political appointees who serve at the pleasure of the president. That would be a change, a big one. And to understand why it matters, you gotta understand how we got here. So the first thing I want you to do, and Nancy, you get to go first, is tell me exactly who you are and how you want to be identified.

[Nancy Unger]

My name is Nancy Unger. I'm professor of history at Santa Clara University. And if you're asking, you know, please, please feel free to call me Nancy, if that's what you're asking.

[Kai Rysdahl]

All righty, I will. I will. Try to remember. I don't always get that. You might get a ma'am out of me here and there. That's kind of the way I.

[Elizabeth Troval]

Whatever.

[Nancy Unger]

Whatever makes you most comfortable.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Yeah. Mark, what about you?

[Justin Ho]

Sure. Well, I'm Mark Summers. I teach at the University of Kentucky. And you can call me Mark. That would suffice.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Historians, both specialists in the Gilded age, the late 1800s, and the politics of that time. I want one of you to tell me about the Spoils system, what it was and how it came about.

[Justin Ho]

Nancy, you want to do it?

[Kai Rysdahl]

Sure.

[Nancy Unger]

So the Spoils System got that name. It was derived from the phrase to the victor belong the spoils by New York Senator William Marcy, and he was referring to the victory of Andrew Jackson in the election of 1828. Basically, the idea is that this oil systems gives federal jobs to political supporters, family and friends of the winning administration. So you get a job in the federal government not because you're qualified, but because it's a payoff for your support.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Mark, how bad was it? I mean, not being qualified is one thing, but just getting something because you're somebody's cousin or nephew, that's a whole nother thing.

[Justin Ho]

Well, it wasn't bad. It was worse, actually. People that have a good loyalty, sure, they can actually be competent. They can be able. But ultimately, if you're giving people jobs because they have got out the vote or they've made sure to provide the money for it. Well, what you're doing is you're hiring people that are going to be working as clerks that don't know how to write or can't figure out which end of the pencil goes on the paper. You're going to be choosing people that are going to be feathering their nest.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Political appointees have been a part of government forever, of course, as they are today. What made the spoil system different was the jobs at every level of government were handed out as favors until they weren't. Mark, get me to 1883, the Pendleton Civil Service act of that year. How did we get there?

[Justin Ho]

It's tricky how we got there. I'd say to start out with. Already by the end of the Civil War, the government has, comparatively speaking, ballooned in size. I mean, there's more and more places that need post offices. Right. And the government appoints the postmasters out there. The kind of people that not only have to know how to give, deliver the mail, but if there's another party's newspaper coming in, that newspaper may, oh, may suddenly get lost and never get to its subscribers. Oh, dear. You know, that kind of thing. A number of people began to argue that we need to have a system of hiring government employees based on merit.

[Kai Rysdahl]

You know how I say sometimes history matters? Here's why. James Garfield is elected president in 1880. And then four months after his inauguration.

[Justin Ho]

Garfield is killed by an office seeker.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Who didn't get a job, Charles Guiteau, who felt he was owed a job for his work getting Garfield elected.

[Justin Ho]

There's this enormous clamor, and under his successor, Chet Arthur, they decide they've got to put through this democratic proposal and named after a gentleman, George Pendleton of Ohio, called the Pendleton Act.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Nancy, what does it do?

[Nancy Unger]

So what the Pendleton act does is it requires that most federal positions be awarded based on merit, that you have to pass an exam, you have to demonstrate that you were qualified to do this job. And so if you're going to be a postal carrier, for example, you have to take the civil service exam that proves that you can understand these addresses, get things delivered where they need to be. And I would add that civil service jobs, particularly in this period, these are great jobs. These are jobs that come with pensions. They're stable. And the Civil Service Commission is also created at this time to enforce this act. So this is really a dramatic change, and it's going to affect federal employees, civil service employees, all the way through to this day.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Well, let's roll with that mark. Is it fair to say that the Pendleton act is the beginning of what we have come to know as the federal civilian workforce?

[Justin Ho]

Yes, it is. Really. And with every president, the size of that workforce that's under the Civil Service rules gets larger. And they get larger because every president has the power to classify more of the offices outside of the system as civil service jobs where you can't fire them because of their politics. They have a fixed term. And if they want to be promoted, they have to take another test to see if they can go to the next level.

[Kai Rysdahl]

And one assumes, Nancy, that this is the point where the federal civilian workforce can specialize and you have not just the postal service workers, but eventually you will have food and drug inspectors and water inspectors and aviation inspectors and all of that.

[Nancy Unger]

Yeah, exactly. And the idea here is that we're going to have qualified people who are really going to make changes in the lives of everyday Americans. So you have things like terrible Triangle shirtwaist factory. And with the Civil Service act, we say, okay, look, now we actually have to have regulations. How many fire exits do there have to be? And we have to have inspectors who are going to go in and make sure that these are actually enforced. So this is going to change the lives for the better for Americans of all walks of life.

[Kai Rysdahl]

There are Today more than 2 million civilian employees of the federal government, give or take 4000 of whom are political appointees. And there are of course, entire agencies that didn't exist back in the 19th century. So after the break, what would happen to this economy if one of those agencies in particular gets politicized? But first, let's do the numbers. Yeah, the wah wahs today. Dow Industrial is off 378, 9 10%. 41,763. The NASDAQ get this. Dipped 512 points. 2 1/4%. 18,095. The S&P 500 gave back 108 points. 1 1/8/10%. 5705. I will add here. Markets go down too. Investors are reacting to tech giant earnings reports. Meta. Facebook's parent company dropped 4%. Microsoft down 6%. Alphabet, of course, Google's parents sank 1 and 9 10%. Ford said it would temporarily halt production of its F150 Lightning until early next year to manage an overstock of the electric truck. That is to say, not selling as many as they thought they would. Symptomatic of the broader trend among automakers, with EV sales slowing, Ford decelerated one and seven tenths percent a day. Candy makers on Halloween. Sure we can do that. Tootsie Roll tumbled 18 10% today. Mondelez International, makers of Swedish Fish Boo Shed 19 10% don't me. You're listening to Marketplace. You turn to Marketplace for up to the minute news, for stories that show you the connections between global events and your personal economy. And you're not alone. Marketplace is the most widely consumed business and economic news program in the country. We're proud to make fact based journalism freely accessible and Marketplace investors make it all possible. Your year end donation today will make a real difference in our nonprofit newsroom and in the lives of millions of Marketplace listeners every single day. So please contribute what you can [e-mail] donate this is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. We get the October jobs report tomorrow from the good people at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The bls, as it happens, is part of the federal workforce that would be restructured if Schedule F actually went into effect.

[Keith Hall]

I guess. I'm former commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[Kai Rysdahl]

He really was. President George W. Bush appointed Keith hall to run the BLS, which he did from 2008 and until 2012. After that, hall was the director of the Congressional Budget Office, which is to say government data is his thing.

[Keith Hall]

I think federal statistics are part of the infrastructure of the economy. You've got households who are making decisions about their jobs, what they want to do. You've got businesses who are making decisions. Then you've got policymakers who are making decisions.

[Kai Rysdahl]

If you're talking about the American labor market, BLS data is the nonpartisan, apolitical gold standard.

[Keith Hall]

The data is collected by dozens of people. In fact, the whole monthly reports, maybe hundreds of people are helping put that together. They follow standards, they follow procedures, and they're people who don't have an agenda. They're professionals. In fact, the folks at BLS are hired because of their technical expertise, their ability to to collect and understand data and keep the quality high.

[Kai Rysdahl]

A bit more than 2,000 people work at the BLS, only one of whom, the commissioner is a political appointee named to fixed four year terms. What would happen if Schedule F goes into effect? If a second term Trump presidency reclassifies federal workers, thousands of them, to make them easier to hire and fire and make them more politically dependent on him, what happens to the work that BLS does?

[Keith Hall]

It would be frustrating for them to see politics come into what they do as a manager of some of these places, but I considered it somewhat my job to protect the career people I don't think you want a statistical agency flinching when they have to deliver bad news or hiding bad news. And again, if you bring in too many politicals, if you do the Schedule F stuff, I think you run a danger there.

[Eric Groschen]

I'm Eric Groschen. I am senior economic advisor for the Cornell ILR School and the former commissioner.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Of the U.S. bureau of Labor Statistics, 2013-2017.

[Eric Groschen]

As commissioner, I saw no number before it was final, and there were a lot of limitations on what I could see. And I was happy with that.

[Justin Ho]

Right.

[Kai Rysdahl]

That right there, that's the firewall between politics and critical economic data.

[Eric Groschen]

Now, if you convert a large swath of the senior civil servants to political appointees, then you're really going to seriously undermine trust in the objectivity of the data. Spinning release narratives. So right now, BLS basically uses only a very limited number of adjectives in its releases. Right. They stick to counting those beans and having it be just bean counting. Right. You could have speeding up or withholding releases at will for political purposes. There are just a lot of opportunities for this kind of interference.

[Kai Rysdahl]

What's your level of concern about all this scale of 1 to 10? Are you like at a 5ish or where are you?

[Eric Groschen]

Oh, no, I'm much closer to 10 on this. I really think that the norms in the agencies are absolutely critical to their success, and Schedule F would just really undermine those norms. And maybe not right away, not immediately, but within a few years you'd have people grasping at any other sources of data that they could, but they're no substitute because they don't have the breadth and they don't have the transparency and they don't have the history that you get from the statistical agencies.

[Kai Rysdahl]

We called the Heritage foundation, the think tank behind Project 2025, for comment. They declined. But the architects of Schedule F have said on the record elsewhere, they believe all levels of government should be more broadly aligned politically with the President's agenda. That would mean the biggest change to the federal workforce in more than a century and as yet unknown changes to the quality of critical economic data. We had a story yesterday about farm incomes and how the Department of Agriculture figures they are going to be down this year about four and a half percent for a lot of small growers. Farmers markets can be an important chunk of that income. But raising livestock or chickens or cultivating and harvesting produce and then selling it in person at weekend or evening markets takes up a ton of time and energy. And the market prices that those growers can get sometimes doesn't reflect all that work. Researchers at Cornell are hoping a new weekly pricing report might help those farmers and growers squeeze out some more profit. North Country Public Radio's Catherine Wheeler has more on that.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

In Potsdam, New York, the farmers market is bustling on Saturday mornings. Customers wander from booth to booth checking out local maple syrups and small batch baguettes. Some people are here for weekend groceries, hustling through the crowd carrying overstuffed canvas bags. At one stall, a customer picks out vibrant green onions and a couple of squash.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Okay, how much for all that? 4.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

These stands are filled with small scale farmers who come from the surrounding rural communities. Their produce is painstakingly grown, and when they come to the market, they have to figure out how to price it.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Usually I talk to the other vendors. I almost hate to say it, but I'll go to Walmart and see what their prices are, too.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

Greg Hargrave grows vegetables on his farm in Madrid, New York.

[Kai Rysdahl]

I do have to be competitive on things, so, but I'd like to think we have a better quality product than Walmart or whatever.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

His farm is a small operation, not Walmart scale.

[Kai Rysdahl]

A lot of this stuff is really labor intensive, expensive, and it's tough trying to, you know, figure everything out or whatever, striking that balance.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

I guess there are a lot of factors that go into pricing the colorful heirloom tomatoes or the bright green arugula that farmers like Hargrave bring to the market. There's the cost of the equipment at the farm, the time it takes to weed and harvest, the gas to get the produce to the market, and the commitment to run a booth. Matt LaRue with Cornell University says often local farmers undercharge at the market.

[Justin Ho]

They can be nervous about setting the.

[Kai Rysdahl]

Prices up where they really need to be.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

Larue says that's why he and a team of researchers created weekly pricing reports for farmers. Producers can look up items like honey nut squash, cherry tomatoes, or eggs and see how much they're selling for. At farmers markets around New York State, it takes out the guesswork, just seeing.

[Justin Ho]

What'S going on out in the marketplace, seeing what the prices are at stores, seeing what's happening at other farmers markets.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

Here's how it works. Farmers sign up to be a part of the pricing database, and researchers connect to their point of sales. System square. Researchers collect the data and create weighted average prices for each item and then post the reports online for free. For farmers, these markets aren't usually the way they pay their bills. They rely on wholesale orders or community supported agriculture subscriptions. But the markets are often great for connecting with the community. And LaRue says earning a little more could make the markets a better investment.

[Kai Rysdahl]

In other words, to give them a.

[Justin Ho]

Better day at the farmer's market, because.

[Kai Rysdahl]

They'Re going to be there for eight hours or six hours, you know, whether.

[Justin Ho]

They make 400 bucks or 800 bucks.

[Kai Rysdahl]

So we're looking for how can we help them earn more in those hours.

[Letitia Gonzalez]

These pricing reports can pool the business experience of a lot of farmers across the state, and that can be especially helpful for beginners like Morgan Leeson, who sells organic produce at a couple of markets in northern New York. On this market day, Leeson is writing prices on chalkboards next to her produce. $2 for a head of garlic, 3 for a bag of kale. She's only been farming for a few years, and Leeson says she typically prices based on the advice of more seasoned farmers like the one in the booth next to her. What do you think I should charge for this pound of grapes? And he's like, oh, I'm thinking like one or two dollars. He's like, five, five dollars. That's what, you know, I'm just like. And he's experienced. He knows what he's talking about. There's dried oregano and sage hanging from the top of her pop up tent, and the last harvest of fresh raspberries are displayed on her table. Her prices are a bit higher than they were last year. I want to stay really fair to the people who are buying from me and keep it affordable, but also make sure I'm making enough to keep myself going so I can keep serving the community. Leeson says Cornell's pricing tool will be of reason real help, especially over winter when she hunkers down to work on her business plans. In Potsdam, New York, I'm Kathryn Wheeler for Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdahl]

This final note on the way out today, in which the economy thanks you, the American consumer, for your partner participation in the festivities this afternoon and this evening. Consumer spending, as we know, makes this economy go round. So I will offer this data point from the National Retail Federation, which I think I told you about when it came out about a month or so ago. By the time all the candy is eaten and all the costumes are put away, we are going to collectively have spent more than $11.5 billion on Halloween 2024. Good job, people. John Buckley, John Gordon, Noya Carr, Diantha Parker, Amanda Peacher and Stephanie Seek are the Marketplace editing staff. Amir Bibawi is the managing editor and I'm Kai Rizdal. We will see you tomorrow. Everybody. This is apm. You turn to Marketplace for up to the minute news for stories that show you the connections between global events and your personal economy. And you're not alone. Marketplace is the most widely consumed business and economic news program in the country. We're proud to make fact based journalism freely accessible and Marketplace investors make it all possible. Your year end donation today will make a real difference in our nonprofit newsroom and in the lives of millions of Marketplace listeners every single day. So please contribute what you can [e-mail] donate.