Will tariffs boost U.S. manufacturing?

Summary

Marketplace Podcast Summary: "Will tariffs boost U.S. manufacturing?" Release Date: March 24, 2025
Host: Kai Ryssdal

---

Introduction to Economic Climate and Tariffs

The episode kicks off with an analysis of President Trump's recent actions regarding tariffs and their immediate impact on the stock market. Kai Ryssdal and Brie Benishore delve into the nuances of tariff policies and their broader economic implications.

• Stock Market Reaction:
  "I may give a lot of countries breaks," President Trump remarked regarding his tariff strategy (00:35). In response, traders saw equities surge, with major indexes showing significant gains.

• Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) Insights:
  Brie Benishore reports on the latest PMI data from S&P Global, highlighting divergent performances between the service and manufacturing sectors (02:18).
  “If you ask businesses in the service economy... they say better than January and February,” explains Chris Williamson, Chief Business Economist at S&P Global Market Intelligence.

Impact of Tariffs on Manufacturing and Services

The discussion moves to how tariffs are influencing different sectors of the economy.

• Service Economy Challenges:
  "Tariff anxiety did help sour the mood in the service economy," Brie notes (03:48), citing cooling labor markets and slowing wage growth as contributing factors (03:49).

• Manufacturing Sector Dynamics:
  Despite a downturn in manufacturing activity, manufacturers remain optimistic about the future. Ryan Sweet, Chief US Economist at Oxford Economics, counters this optimism by suggesting that tariffs might ultimately harm economic activity and strengthen the dollar, which is detrimental to U.S. manufacturers (03:32).

Housing Market Trends and Homeownership Rates

Elizabeth Troval presents a comprehensive report on the stagnation of homeownership growth among younger generations, using data from Redfin.

• Generational Homeownership Statistics:
  “Only about 26% of older Gen Zers owned homes in 2024,” states Troval (05:24), highlighting a significant lag compared to millennials and older generations.

• Barriers to Homeownership:
  High interest rates and limited housing inventory are cited as major obstacles for first-time buyers. Tyler Cleaney’s personal struggles exemplify these challenges (05:24).

• Future Outlook:
  Mauricio Soto offers an optimistic perspective, believing that younger generations will overcome current hurdles through financial prudence and time (06:24).
  “Young people should start saving and earning interest as early as they can to prepare for homeownership,” Soto advises (06:24).

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: Prospects of Privatization

The episode explores the potential privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, key players in the U.S. housing finance system.

• Board Overhauls and Privatization Plans:
  Recent changes include the replacement of 14 board members at both organizations. The White House is considering strategies to re-privatize these government-sponsored enterprises (07:55).

• Expert Opinions:
  Mike Franatoni from the Mortgage Bankers Association sees potential benefits in privatization, such as increased innovation and responsiveness to market demands (08:52). Conversely, Andrew Fieldhouse from Texas A&M cautions about repeating past mistakes where taxpayer risks outweighed private gains (08:52).

• Role in Mortgage Finance:
  “Fannie and Freddie's big value add is the federal government acting as a backstop...,” explains David Dworkin, CEO of the National Housing Conference (07:55).

The Surge of Independent College Counseling

Nicole Laporte discusses the booming industry of independent college counseling, which has grown into a $3 billion sector amidst increasingly competitive college admissions.

• Accessibility and Costs:
  Independent college counselors operate outside the traditional school system, offering services from essay editing to application assistance. Laporte reveals that fees can range from an average of $6,500 to as high as $200,000 for comprehensive packages (11:10).

• Elitism and Market Dynamics:
  “This is a service that's available to a teeny, tiny fraction of the top income spectrum,” Laporte acknowledges, highlighting the inherent elitism in the industry (13:19).
  Venture capital interest underscores the sector’s rapid growth, though Laporte emphasizes the lack of a guaranteed "secret sauce" for admissions success (14:13).

• Implications for Equity in Education:
  The high costs and exclusive nature of independent counseling services exacerbate existing inequalities in college admissions, providing advantaged students with additional resources (13:36).

Infrastructure Development: New Francis Scott Key Bridge

Stephanie Hughes reports on Maryland’s plans to replace the collapsed Francis Scott Key Bridge with a modern, cable-stayed design aimed at ensuring longevity and enhanced capacity.

• Design and Technology Upgrades:
  The new bridge will transition from a truss design to a cable-stayed structure, allowing for a longer main span of 1,600 feet compared to the old 1,200 feet (23:41).
  “There have been big advances in bridge building technology in the last half century,” notes civil engineer Maria Lehman, highlighting improvements like corrosion-resistant coatings and embedded sensors (25:05).

• Future-Proofing and Challenges:
  The bridge's design incorporates a 45-foot elevation increase to accommodate larger ships, though adaptability to future maritime advancements remains uncertain (24:53).
  Planning for a 100-year lifespan involves balancing current standards with unpredictable future developments, as emphasized by Ben Shaffer from Johns Hopkins (26:32).

Closing Remarks: New Tariffs on Venezuelan Oil

In the episode’s conclusion, the host revisits the theme of tariffs, announcing President Trump’s new policy to impose a 25% tariff on imports from any country purchasing oil from Venezuela. This move targets major buyers like China and the United States, further influencing global trade dynamics (27:55).

Notable Quotes

• President Trump on Tariffs (00:35): “I may give a lot of countries breaks.”
• Chris Williamson on Services Sector (02:18): “If you ask businesses in the service economy... they say better than January and February.”
• Ryan Sweet on Tariffs Impact (03:32): “Tariffs, they're going to cut into economic activity and the dollar is likely going to appreciate, which doesn't really bode well for US manufacturers.”
• Mauricio Soto on Homeownership (06:24): “Young people should start saving and earning interest as early as they can to prepare for homeownership.”
• Nicole Laporte on College Counseling (14:16): “There's no secret sauce.”

Conclusion

This episode of Marketplace offers a multifaceted exploration of current economic issues, including the efficacy of tariffs on U.S. manufacturing, the stagnation of homeownership among younger generations, the potential privatization of key housing finance institutions, the rise and implications of independent college counseling, and significant infrastructure developments in Baltimore. Through expert insights and real-world examples, the podcast provides a comprehensive overview of factors shaping the U.S. economy today.

---

For more detailed insights and ongoing coverage, tune into future episodes of Marketplace.

Transcript

[Kai Rysdal]

This podcast is supported by Odoo. Some say Odoo business management software is like fertilizer for businesses because the simple, efficient software promotes growth. Others say Odoo is like a magic beanstalk because it scales with you and is magically affordable. And some describe Odoo's programs for manufacturing, accounting and more as building blocks for creating a custom software suite. So Odoo is fertilizer magic beanstalk building blocks for business Odoo exactly what small businesses need. Sign [e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

[Brie Benishore]

For 36 years now, Marketplace has provided free, accessible information about this economy with a sense of humor, too. Right now, during our March fundraiser, donate $20 or more and pick up a tote bag featuring a classic Marketplace ad from 1989. Get a piece of our past while helping us plan for the future. Check out the tote bag and make your gift right now@marketplace. And thanks on the program today, tariffs, the housing market and college admissions. We report you decide from American Public Media. This is Marketplace in Los Angeles. I'm Kyle Rysdal. It is Monday today, the 24th of March. Good as always to have. Have you long, everybody? All right, quick, tell me President Trump pulled back on his tariff threats even a little bit. Without telling me that President Trump pulled back on his tariff threats even a little bit, were you to show me a chart of what the major stock indexes did to start the week, that would be a good response. Asked about his promised reciprocal tariffs set to go into effect next week, the president said this quote, I may give a lot of countries breaks. Traders needed no further encouragement than that and equities were off to the races. We here, however, prefer data to understand where this economy might be going. And we got it this morning in the form of the S and P Global Purchasing Managers Index, which Marketplace's Brie Benishore spent his day reporting on.

[Kai Rysdal]

If you ask businesses in the service economy, the diners, the hair salons, how they are doing in March, in general, they say better than January and February, which were terrible, terrible because of terrible weather, polar vortexes, snowstorms in the south, you know, your tourism sectors, restaurants and so forth, just people not wanting to go out. Chris Williamson is chief business economist at S and P Global Market Intelligence. S and P Global puts out the pmi. So in March, the weather got better and businesses in services did better. Manufacturing is the complete opposite. Companies in the manufacturing side of the economy had a great start to the year. They were ramping up production to get shipments out ahead of any possible tariffs. That bump is over. And so in March, manufacturing sank back into the swamp of malaise and periodic contraction that it has been in for more than two years. The cost of inputs for manufacturers is at a 31 month high tariffs. But despite all that, manufacturers in March were the most optimistic about the future that they've been in years. That reflects this more protectionist environment that manufacturers are saying, hey, in the long run this is going to help us. Ryan Sweet is not so sure that it is. He's chief US Economist at Oxford Economics.

[Brie Benishore]

Tariffs, they're going to cut into economic activity and the dollar is likely going to appreciate, which doesn't really bode well for US Manufacturers.

[Kai Rysdal]

Tariff anxiety did help sour the mood in the service economy though. That and the cooling labor market and slowing wage growth.

[Brie Benishore]

When that occurs, it's not a great.

[Kai Rysdal]

Barometer of what's ahead for services and confidence there around how this year will go fell to its lowest level since 2022. The service economy, by the way, employs more than 80% of the workers in the U.S. in New York, I'm Sabri.

[Brie Benishore]

Benishore for Marketplace Wall Street Today. Music Happy it will be. Details Numbers we we're going to do a couple of housing stories now. First, Redfin was out with a report today about home ownership rates thereof specifically. Seems that last year growth in home ownership stalled out for both Gen Z and millennials. Only about 26% of older Gen Zers owned homes in 2024. That's people who were between 19 and 27 years old last year. If you have lost track of which gen is which, that ownership figure is 55% for millennials people 28 to 43. Point is that while younger people in this economy are not increasing their share of home ownership the way they did as recently as just before the pandemic, those ownership rates for Gen Xers and baby boomers, well, they kept on growing. Marketplace's Elizabeth Troval explains why that all matters.

[Kai Rysdal]

33 year old Tyler Cleaney from Denver started his home search a year ago. First with standalone homes. Even something that was like a single bedroom, little bitty thing, I couldn't afford that anywhere that I wanted to live. So he expanded his search to townhomes and condos that seemed to fit his $300,000 budget. But with HOA and other fees that just made them out of reach. After a year he's mostly given up. These high interest rates, the low amount of inventory. It's creating this barrier where it's harder for young people to advance in terms of homeownership. Darrel Fairweather with Redfin says those elevated interest rates are making it even harder for first time homebuyers. They are borrowing most of the money to purchase the home. Uncertainty around interest rates is discouraging home buyers. Says John Posenit with mortgage services firm Maxwell. What we saw across all segments but.

[Brie Benishore]

Particularly millennials, just a pumping on the.

[Kai Rysdal]

Brakes to say okay, what's, what's going to happen. Younger people are waiting and seeing as they continue to trail their parents generation in terms of homeownership. Daniel McHugh is with Harvard. Homeowners have about 40 times you know, the wealth of renters. But Mauricio Soto, a real estate agent in Oregon is optimistic. Young people will figure it out. They have well paying jobs and time on their side. Millennial Gen Z they understand and they know how important is to save money for the future. Definitely they, they will be in a in a really, really good position. He says young people should start saving and earning interest as early as they can to prepare for homeownership. I'm Elizabeth Trovall for Marketplace.

[Brie Benishore]

Homeownership in the United States is a thing thanks largely to the Federal National Mortgage association and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation or if you prefer Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And they are not immune from the politics of this moment. Last week 14 members of the boards of directors at the two government sponsored enterprises, that's what they're called GSE. Those boards and senior executives at both were summarily replaced. Fannie and Freddie, you might remember this have been under government conservatorship since the financial crisis. But the White House is now said to be considering a plan to re privatize them. Would not be the first time. By the by, Marketplace's Matt Levin has more on what that might mean for the housing market.

[Kai Rysdal]

Fannie and Freddie do not lend people money to buy homes. Instead they buy mortgages from the lenders that originate them. So those loans and the risks associated with them are no longer on those lenders books. Then they bundle up the mortgages into neat little snackable securities and then sell those snacks to pension funds and insurance companies and other big investors around the globe. They're important because they're the grease basically that makes the whole mortgage finance system work and they've been incredibly successful at it. David Dworkin is CEO of the National Housing Conference which pushes for more affordable housing. Fannie and Freddie's big value add is the federal government acting as a backstop If a homeowner defaults on a Fannie or Freddie back mortgage, the investor who owns it still gets paid. Torgan says that lowers mortgage risks and mortgage rates. The mortgage that you get is going.

[Brie Benishore]

To have a lower interest rate than.

[Kai Rysdal]

It would have otherwise, probably about half a percent. Last year, Fannie and Freddie backed about 40% of all new securitized U.S. mortgages. It's not exactly clear how the administration might go about ending their government run conservatorship. Mike Franatoni at the Mortgage Bankers association says re privatization could have an upside. We think when they're out of conservatorship it'll help them to be more innovative, more responsive to the markets. But it needs to be done cautiously. The government selling its stake in Fannie and Freddie could also yield hundreds of billions of dollars for Uncle Sam. But Andrew Fieldhouse at Texas A&M's Mays Business School says we've seen this movie before. Like before the government had to bail out Fannie and Freddie when the financial system choked on those mortgage backed security snacks. The pre 2008 status quo in which Fannie and Freddie's upside gains were privatized going to shareholders and management and any big downside losses were backstopped by taxpayers was problematic. The Federal Housing Finance Agency which oversees Fannie and Freddie declined a request for comment. I'm Matt Levin for Marketplace.

[Brie Benishore]

We're pretty much smack in the middle of college acceptance or wait list or not acceptance season. And you don't need me to tell you that college admissions has gotten super competitive the past couple of decades. And on top of that longer term trend, there have been changes to standardized test requirements and affirmative action and a whole bunch more, which is leaving kids and their parents confused and anxious about the whole admissions process. So enter now the world of independent college counseling, which has grown into a $3 billion a year industry. As Nicole Laporte wrote in town country not too long ago. She's also the author of the book Guilty Admissions about the Varsity Blues scandal a couple of years back, if you remember that. Nicole, welcome to the program.

[Nicole Laporte]

Thanks for having me.

[Brie Benishore]

Could you define a term for me here? What is an independent college counselor?

[Nicole Laporte]

Yes, an independent college counselor is a counselor that works outside of a high school. You can hire them to provide a service for your high school student or maybe even your middle school student to walk them through the college admissions process. Everything from, you know, looking over their essays and filling out the application, just doing all of helping out with all of this stuff that these kids need to do. To apply?

[Brie Benishore]

Could I, if I wanted to? I mean, I've had four kids go through the college application process. Could I hang out at Shingle tomorrow and say, here I am, I'm an independent college counselor?

[Nicole Laporte]

You absolutely could, and you'd probably be very good.

[Brie Benishore]

No, because the truth is, my wife did all of them, but that's a whole different thing.

[Nicole Laporte]

Yeah, I mean, sort of the. The dirty secret of college counseling is that you do not need a certification. You absolutely can. Can set up shop.

[Brie Benishore]

How much for those parents of kids who are confused and anxious and, you know, parents probably who are confused and anxious. How much is it gonna cost?

[Nicole Laporte]

There's quite a range. The numbers that get the big headlines, of course, are the super, super high numbers. And that can go up to 200,000 do over the. I know.

[Brie Benishore]

Sorry. Come on. That's like. That's like. That could be a whole college education someplace.

[Nicole Laporte]

Exactly. Well, that's not for, you know, a month of counseling or even a year of counseling. That's counseling that starts in middle school. So that's, say, from 8th to 12th grade. You know, that might involve, you know, maybe at that point, it becomes almost like a concierge service where the counselor is perhaps mapping out visits to colleges and doing a lot more than just, you know, editing an essay.

[Brie Benishore]

Let's say I don't have 200 large to spend on my kid before they even get to college. What's. What's the, you know, sort of average going price?

[Nicole Laporte]

Yeah, the average is about 6,500. And, you know, when you get into New York and LA and San Francisco, kind of these higher, more expensive places to live, it goes up to maybe 15 grand. Again, that's over a couple years. That's not just for, you know, a couple months or even one year. But it's. It's expensive. I mean, there's no way around that.

[Brie Benishore]

I'm obliged to point out here. And as you say in this piece, you know, the schools know this. This is a service that's available to a teeny, tiny fraction of the tippity, tippity top of the income spectrum. And it brings with it a whiff of elitism that is inescapable.

[Nicole Laporte]

Absolutely. I mean, the numbers that I was just citing alone tell you what segment of the population we're talking about. And yeah, it's. And colleges admit this. I mean, I talk about Christoph Guttentag, the longtime Duke admissions officer, you know, and he admits that this is absolutely a luxury, and it's giving advantaged kids another advantage.

[Brie Benishore]

Not only are the parents deeply interested in this, but as you point out in this piece, venture capital firms are interested in this. There's, there's a, there's a company that you talk about in here that raised some, you know, high tens of millions of dollars funding round.

[Nicole Laporte]

Yes. I mean, I will point out that that's not the norm.

[Brie Benishore]

Okay, fair enough. But still fair enough. But I mean, yeah, the VC is interested in this, should tell you something.

[Nicole Laporte]

Well, I think it speaks to just how this has come to dominate, you know, media headlines and the cultural interest in this, particularly amongst, yes, elite members of the population. And, you know, it's a $3 billion industry. I just think that number alone, you can't ignore that. But again, that's, that's a rare example.

[Brie Benishore]

With the observation here that not everybody and probably most people don't and shouldn't want to have to need to go to this tiny piece of higher education because you can get a good college education lots of places. Do these companies have the secret code?

[Nicole Laporte]

You know, they would like you to think that.

[Brie Benishore]

Yes, they would.

[Nicole Laporte]

Well, it's funny because you look at their websites and there's all kinds of promises and statistics much, much of which is very hard to discern and get behind and prove. But then when you actually speak to them and I mean, I think virtually all of them, and probably the first meeting with a family will say, we cannot guarantee admission to X school. So, no, there is no secret sauce. But again, it's just, it's providing an advantage.

[Brie Benishore]

Yeah. Nicole Le Port, the piece is in town and country. Her book on the subject at hand though is called Guilty Admissions. Nicola Port, thanks a lot for your time.

[Kai Rysdal]

Thank you.

[Brie Benishore]

Coming up right now, there are certain cruise ships that cannot serve the Port of Baltimore. Building a bridge from here to the future. But first, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials up 597 today, 1.4% ended at 42,583. The Nasdaq up 404 points, 2 1/4 percent. 18,188. The S&P 500 up 100 points, 1 1/4% finished at 5,767. The DNA test, the company 23andMe tumbled. How much you figure because you heard about the Chapter 11 bankruptcy or filing right down 59%. Elizabeth Patrol Ball was telling us about stalling rates of homeownership among Gen Zers, older Gen Z and millennials. So homebuilder stocks, pulte group stacked up 3%. Toll brothers rang up 3 and 8 10% KB home improved 3 and 4 10%. You're listening to Marketplace.

[Kai Rysdal]

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years.

[Nicole Laporte]

We know because Multicare has been here.

[Kai Rysdal]

Guided by a single purpose, making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@ multicare.org Comcast business helps retailers become seamlessly restocking, frictionless paying favorite shopping destinations. It's how nationwide restaurants become touchscreen ordering quick serving eateries and how hospitals become the patient scanning data, managing healthcare facilities that we all depend on. With leading networking and connectivity, advanced cybersecurity and expert partnership, Comcast business is powering.

[Brie Benishore]

The engine of modern business powering possibilities.

[Kai Rysdal]

Restrictions apply. Get more than you expect with the $5 meal deal. Part of new McValue 5 gets you a McDouble or McChicken and a small fry and a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. New McValue at McDonald's. Prices of participation may vary. McDonald meal $6 in some market for.

[Brie Benishore]

A limited time only. This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rysdal. Tens of thousands of people so far have been summarily fired from their federal government jobs by Elon Musk and his operatives. Some of those people have been called back to work either because of court rulings or because the federal government realized workers are in fact important. But in that chaos lies opportunity, because state and local governments are now able to scoop up some badly needed talented. But that switch from federal to state or local government work does come with some big changes. As Marketplace's Savannah Peters reports.

[Savannah Peters]

Late last year, Eric Ham was feeling a little uneasy about his job security. He was working as a maintenance mechanic at Big Bend national park in Texas, and he was aware that President Trump had plans for big federal budget cuts. So he applied for a municipal job, the city forester in Cortez, Colorado. And in January, he got an offer.

[Brie Benishore]

I actually turned it down saying, you.

[Kai Rysdal]

Know, we want to stick around, we want to help the park, and we want to get the benefits that come with being part of the federal system.

[Savannah Peters]

Then about a month later, Ham's wife Kelon Crawford's job was one of thousands cut in the first wave of downsizing under the Department of Government Efficiency. She also worked in the park as a science technician and was five months pregnant. To Eric Ham, it felt like a betrayal.

[Kai Rysdal]

It's kind of a no brainer for.

[Brie Benishore]

Me, I don't want to work for.

[Kai Rysdal]

An organization that's going to do that to people.

[Savannah Peters]

So Ham turned in his resignation and then called the city of Cortez back.

[Kai Rysdal]

Kind of with my tail between my legs.

[Savannah Peters]

But he says they were happy to extend him another offer. In other words, the federal government's downsizing is the city of Cortez's gain. Other states and localities have the same idea.

[Nicole Laporte]

We feel like tapping into this applicant pool that we up until now have had limited success in recruiting from is a real opportunity.

[Savannah Peters]

Brenna Hashimoto directs Hawaii's Department of Human Resource Development, which is enthusiastically recruiting sideline federal workers and fast tracking their hiring.

[Nicole Laporte]

We've had a tremendous response so far.

[Savannah Peters]

Over 1600 new applications for around 60 high priority, hard to fill positions like research statisticians and IT specialists. But Liz Farmer, a researcher with the Pew Charitable Trusts, says matching those workers federal salaries or what they could make in the private sector could be tough.

[Kai Rysdal]

I would expect that to be a concern and something that states and localities don't have necessarily an advantage of. However, one of the things that government has always had going for it is this idea of a job with purpose. It's an important part of who I am. Right. Like the ability to serve and to give back.

[Savannah Peters]

That's a federal worker. We're calling Ann her middle name since she is still employed by the U.S. department of Agriculture. But she's looking for an exit strategy. She's got an interview lined up for a state government job in Pennsylvania, where she lives. The work is comparable. The base salary. Not even close.

[Kai Rysdal]

I'd be looking at a $60,000 pay cut. So that's really. Ouch.

[Nicole Laporte]

Yeah.

[Kai Rysdal]

Yeah.

[Savannah Peters]

There's a new policy in Pennsylvania to weigh federal work the same as state experience in hiring. If Ann gets the job, she's counting on that to help narrow the salary gap. Eric Hamm, the former National Park Service worker, says he's not taking a pay cut at his new municipal job in Colorado.

[Kai Rysdal]

But it's hard to beat federal benefits.

[Savannah Peters]

With their baby due in three months, Ham and his wife won't get the paid parental leave they were counting on. Their health insurance won't be as good, and they're struggling to find housing in their new and much more expensive city.

[Kai Rysdal]

In a lot of ways, we're hurting.

[Savannah Peters]

Ham is grateful he gets to keep working in the outdoors and for the public. But the move from federal to local government work comes with big sacrifices for his family. I'm Savannah Peters for Marketplace.

[Brie Benishore]

It's a year this week that the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapsed after it was hit by that container ship. Six construction workers were killed. The channel into the Port of Baltimore was blocked for more than 10 weeks, and the Mid Atlantic lost a key commercial thoroughfare. Maryland released its design for new bridge in February, and it's obviously early days yet, but that replacement is being built to have an expected lifespan of 100 years, which means it's going to have to accommodate not just the ships and trucks of today, but the ships and trucks of a century from now. Marketplace's Stephanie Hughes reports.

[Kai Rysdal]

First of all, the new bridge is going to look really different, says Rick Geddes, who studies infrastructure policy at Cornell. The old Key Bridge was truss kind of design that looks like kind of.

[Brie Benishore]

A cage and that is holding up the roadway.

[Kai Rysdal]

Getty says truss bridges were very common back in the 1970s when the old Key Bridge was built. The new bridge will be a kind Getty says is more commonly built now, what's called a cable stayed bridge, where you have very tall towers and those towers hold cables.

[Brie Benishore]

And the roadway is suspended under the towers via those cables. And so the cable stay design allows the center span to be longer.

[Kai Rysdal]

The center or main span of the bridge goes over the shipping channel. The old Key Bridge's main span was 1200ft. The new one is expected to be 1600.

[Brie Benishore]

So the likelihood that a big ship.

[Kai Rysdal]

Is going to veer out of the.

[Brie Benishore]

Channel and hit a part of the bridge is reduced by the fact that you have the towers about a third, which is a lot wider apart than.

[Kai Rysdal]

Under the old bridge. The deck of the new bridge where the road is, will be about 45ft higher than the old one, allowing bigger ships to pass underneath. Paul Wiedefeld leads Maryland's Department of Transportation, which is overseeing the project today.

[Brie Benishore]

Right now there are certain cruise ships that cannot serve the Port of Baltimore because as you've seen, they've gotten very large.

[Kai Rysdal]

I asked Weidefeld if the new bridge will be able to accommodate the biggest.

[Brie Benishore]

Ships, probably not the biggest in the future. I mean, you have to think of it in the scale of the Port of Baltimore versus other ports, Right.

[Kai Rysdal]

Wiedefeld says the Port of Baltimore does have room to grow, even though, you.

[Brie Benishore]

Know, it's tight, it's within a very dense urban environment.

[Kai Rysdal]

But as with other kinds of infrastructure, he says there have been big advances in bridge building technology in the last half century.

[Brie Benishore]

When you think, you know, we're building a Bridge for 100 years, so you.

[Kai Rysdal]

Start to use materials that basically that can last much longer. For example, there are better coatings for metal that protect against corrosion, says civil engineer Maria Lehman. She also says you can now embed sensors in a bridge that will give a heads up when something is off. You know, you get an alarm, hey, you should check this out. And things that normally you may not notice with, with a visual inspection because it's going on, you know. At the steel level, Lehman worked on a different bridge meant to last 100 years, the Mario Cuomo Bridge over the Hudson river in New York, which opened in 2018. And she says, from an engineering standpoint, you can address a lot of different outcomes, but you're on a budget. You really have to think about risk, which is the probability of failure times the consequences of the failure. And where is that sweet spot where you're investing enough that you're meeting the risk, but not too much, because there isn't an unlimited pot of money to be able to do this. In the case of the new bridge in Baltimore, there's also not unlimited time. Maryland has set a goal of October 15, 2028 for the new bridge to open. And forecasting what shipping and trucking will look like in 2128 is hard, says Ben Shaffer, who studies civil and systems engineering at Johns Hopkins.

[Brie Benishore]

So if there's another new idea that.

[Kai Rysdal]

You and I can't really even conceptualize.

[Brie Benishore]

Right now and that becomes the most important way to move goods around, there's not an easy way to get into that sort of prediction.

[Kai Rysdal]

The best engineers and planners can do is rely on current standards, which try to take into account how the economy will grow. In Baltimore, I'm Stephanie Hughes for Marketplace.

[Brie Benishore]

This final note on the way out today, in which I know we talk about tariffs here a lot, but they are kind of driving things right now, right? The President has in the past called himself a tariff man, and he proves it in new and creative ways every single day. The President said today that he is going to put 25% tariffs on imports to the United States from any country that buys oil from Venezuela. Among the countries that have been buying the most oil from Venezuela, the New York Times had this tidbit. China and the United States. Our daily production team includes Andy Corbin, Nicholas guillaume, Maria Hollenhorst, Iru Ekbanobi, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry, and Sophia Terenzio. I'm Kai Rysdal. We will see you tomorrow, Everybody. This is APM.

[Kai Rysdal]

Consumer confidence had its sharpest monthly decline since 2021, which means we're all in.

[Savannah Peters]

Our feels about money.

[Kai Rysdal]

And while Uncertainty is the only constant these days. It's also a great reason to get serious about understanding personal finance. I'm Janelie Espinal, host of Financially Inclined, a podcast from Marketplace that makes learning about money simple. Learn about practical skills like negotiating job offers, dealing with money and friendship and love, entrepreneurship and student loans. Get serious about your money and build a life you've always dreamed of. Listen to Financially Inclined wherever you get your podcasts.