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- [00:02]
Narrator
Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
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Parent
All right, sweetie pie, buckle up. Good job.
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Narrator
Or ring the bell on their bike.
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Parent
Okay, kid, give it a try.
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Bilal bin Saqib
Nice.
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Narrator
Or remember their elbow pads.
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Parent
Knees too. Okay.
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Bilal bin Saqib
Yep.
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Parent
There you go.
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Narrator
New Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teenage and the content they can see.
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Bilal bin Saqib
Every major technological shift looked risky in early days, from the Internet to mobile phones. But those who stayed curious, kept learning and started building. They end up taking the most advantage of this.
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Uniswap Representative
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- [01:20]
Host
Get started@uniswap.org Pakistan has created a crypto council to begin exploring digital asset innovation in the country. Will they launch a bitcoin strategic reserve? And how are they planning to use excess energy to attract bitcoin miners? Joining the show now is the newly appointed CEO of Pakistan's Crypto Council, Bilal bin Saqib. Bilal, welcome to Markets Daily.
- [01:42]
Bilal bin Saqib
Hi.
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Host
Thank you, Bilal. Let's just lay a foundation here. We're going to talk about crypto developments in Pakistan. But you know, Pakistan really hasn't had a very friendly approach or a friendly, friendly stance to crypto and that changed at the end of last year. Talk to me about what's changed within the country that led to this more friendly stance when it comes to crypto.
- [02:05]
Bilal bin Saqib
I think the idea came from a simple realization that innovation is happening and you know you can't stop it. But all of this was happening without any direction. So you know, we have builders here. Pakistanis are leading investors in crypto, but everything was operating in silos. There was essentially no bridge. And hence why I think the leadership came to realize that there is no central body to unify all the voices, to channel all the momentum and to represent Pakistan on the global stage. And hence why the Pakistani Crypto Council fills that gap. We are inspired by the pace of adoption across our youth in this country country, the volume of crypto related activity despite having no policy clarity. So hence why here we are as the Pakistan crypto Council putting all stakeholders on one table to drive the digital asset and blockchain ecosystem forward.
- [03:19]
Host
What do you think is driving youth in Pakistan towards exploring digital assets?
- [03:27]
Bilal bin Saqib
You see the average age in Pakistan is under 24, 70%, 67% of the countries under the age of 30, 250 million people. And this is not just a demographic fact. That's our greatest advantage. Our youth are digitally native, they are hungry to learn and they are already playing massive role in global freelancer market. We are ranked third in the world, we are big when it comes to gaming and essentially serving as back offices for some of the leading, you know, tech companies.
- [04:13]
Host
Talk to me about how closely you're watching developments in the rest of the world. You talk about, you know, youth in Pakistan freelancing for some of the top tech companies. You talk about the acceleration of digital assets in other countries. Are there any countries you're watching in particular that you know, has kind of inspired what the Crypto Council wants to do within your borders?
- [04:37]
Bilal bin Saqib
Our PCC is very young. It's been around two weeks since the inception of pcc. But we have already engaged Malaysia, Nigeria and some of the other countries that I've mentioned and some that I cannot where we are in talks to do mous for capacity building because you know, just so bitcoin is one thing. But I think that for Pakistan right now we are very receptive to the idea of bitcoin mining for instance, and we are actively inviting global companies to explore the opportunity here in Pakistan. And our vision, our vision goes beyond just mining. We are positioning Pakistan as a destination for both bitcoin mining and AI data centers because both of these technologies, we don't want to be left behind. And with our surplus energy and untapped renewable energy potential, we can offer some highly competitive energy rates, which is essentially part of a broader plan to attract foreign investment, boost our foreign reserves and essentially serve as a catalyst of growth towards digital infrastructure ecosystem for Pakistan.
- [06:07]
Host
I want to talk about bitcoin mining in just a second, but I'm curious how closely you're watching developments in the United States. We know that President Trump recently said signed in a strategic bitcoin reserve, so that's begun in the United States. I want to talk about the potential for that in Pakistan. But first, how closely are you watching developments in the United States? And when something crypto related is launched by the United States government, is that almost like a sign for Pakistan to say, okay, this, this is okay, we should have our own framework and move forward with something similar?
- [06:43]
Bilal bin Saqib
I Think it's extremely positive. Firstly, we are following that very closely because we want to see what are the superpowers of the world doing and how can we learn from that and create our own strategy. So it's extremely positive. This Trump regime, this new government, is extremely positive. They delivered on their promises. They signed the strategic reserve, which is unprecedented. Trump went on to speak at a crypto conference. Unprecedented. And I think we are standing at the crossroads of a new global world order where strength will be defined by these nascent technologies of blockchain and AI. And it's unfair advantage, at least for countries like us, who have not fully leveraged previous technological shifts because of not acting as quickly on the policy making side. But if now, which our leadership is very, very focused on, if we sign the right policy paper, we can also take that quantum leap and move forward as a country. So it's extremely positive to see bitcoin strategic reserve being created. White House coming out and saying we want to make USA the crypto capital of the world. And of course that really helps us hear people who believe in this technology of crypto and blockchain when you have countries like the USA coming forward and putting their best foot forward and going all in with this technology.
- [08:24]
Host
Now, is the government in Pakistan considering its own strategic bitcoin reserve?
- [08:31]
Bilal bin Saqib
See, Pakistan has dealt with currency volatility and inflation. Holding bitcoin as part of our reserves could of course offer some long term potential and diversification. But as of now, there are no such stocks. We have excess electricity which we want to turn into digital gold. We want to turn into a revenue stream and that is what we are more focused on. But beyond the bitcoin blockchain adoption I think has massive potential in our local context, whether it be in land reforms or faster remittances from overseas Pakistanis.
- [09:20]
Host
Let's talk about that excess energy for a second. You did say that you want to encourage bitcoin miners and AI data centers to set up shop in Pakistan. This isn't the first country who has said this. How do you compete with other countries that are saying bitcoin miners, come here, use our excess energy, AI data centers, come here, set up shop. What's the value prop for Pakistan?
- [09:44]
Bilal bin Saqib
Again, you see, we don't need to go out and invest in infrastructure for the electricity. We already have a lot of excess electricity and it's there. We are engaging with stakeholders to just again to sign the right policy. And once it's out, we already have this electricity out there, which is like a sunk cost for the government which can be put into use to create, to generate revenue and to create a whole ecosystem and enabling environment for all of these Bitcoin miners and data centers. And we are placed in a very strategic location as well. So we can be very agile, we can be very quick when it comes to providing these, this infrastructure ability to the miners and the AI data centers.
- [10:37]
Host
You mentioned remittances from overseas workers. Talk to me a little bit about the technology piece you just mentioned. How is the government looking at implementing the technology or even crypto to enhance the efficiency of sending and receiving remittances from Pakistan to the globe?
- [10:59]
Bilal bin Saqib
See the Pakistan. Yeah, the partisan crypto council is incubated at the Ministry of Finance. So our Chairman is the Hon. Finance Minister and hence why we are looking, we are still in discovery phase where we are looking at different options on how best can we make sure that we make the most effective use of this technology when it comes to remittances and cross border payments. We are still very early. I don't, I cannot give you a concrete sort of answer on this. This is something that we are still considering and we are open for potential partners to come and pitch us.
- [11:44]
Host
Can you tell us about any potential partners you've spoken to already?
- [11:48]
Bilal bin Saqib
Unfortunately, I cannot. As I said, you know, we are still early in this. We are two weeks in and there are certain low hanging fruits where we want to, where we want to focus on.
- [11:59]
Host
All right. We talked about how closely you're watching the United States. We talked about how closely you are looking at collaborating with other countries. Like you said, you're very early here. But I'm curious how closely you're monitoring developments that are happening in India. We're seeing more crypto exchanges get licensed there. We're seeing some excitement again around crypto in India, especially with the huge population there. Talk to me about if there's maybe a sense of competition when you're looking at building out the crypto council and crypto developments in Pakistan or is there more of a sense of collaboration between the two countries?
- [12:38]
Bilal bin Saqib
I think Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, approximately 2 billion people. And I think the blockchain technology can really help us. We are not looking at it from a competition point of view. For us it's more of a collaborative efforts because this, this belt has a lot of youth, again, digitally savvy youth population that can really change the face of Southeast Asia or South Asia where you know, we, why don't we have these great protocols? Why can't an ethereum come out of you know Pakistan and, and hence why we are more in a very collaborative form where we want to listen, we want to learn. Of course, India published their blockchain national blockchain policy paper a few years ago. We are yet to do that and hence why we are here. And we want to catch up and move fairly quickly because as per the chain link, chain chain analysis report, we were top three, top four in global adoption list. So there is a lot of appetite and we just want to put in the right, the right regulation in place.
- [13:54]
Host
Talk to me a little bit more about that collaboration that you hope to see between those three neighboring countries. I know you said you're still early, but what might that look like and how did you think that will position Pakistan and its neighboring countries when we look at some of the jurisdictions that maybe have been looking at crypto policy for a little bit longer than you have over there?
- [14:19]
Bilal bin Saqib
Yeah, it's not just for the neighboring countries. As I mentioned, you know, we speaking to Nigeria very actively. We believe they have similar sort of concerns that we have and hence why we want to learn from whoever has successfully executed the regulation and whatever obstacles they've faced on their journey. We are open, we are here to share knowledge. So you know, it's a very collaborative approach and open minded from our side.
- [14:53]
Host
And the last thing I want to talk to you about is creating this Web3 hub. This is not the first time we've heard about a Web3 hub. You know, you mentioned the UAE trying to position their region as a Web3 hub. We have Hong Kong who has done a good job at kind of attracting more of the institutional side and maybe even like the gaming side of web 3. We now have the United States playing catch up. Talk to me about how you envision Pakistan as, as a Web3 Center. Is it really that focus on bitcoin mining like we were talking about before?
- [15:37]
Bilal bin Saqib
No, no, no, no, no. Again, bitcoin mining is one thing, exchanges will be another one. And then, you know, this, this third biggest. Actually, let me rephrase this. So you see the question is that blockchain and crypto aren't coming. They are already here. And the question is whether Pakistan leverages them or continues to operate in denial. And hence why this is what we look at it on a five year plan. I see there are three key transformations. Financial inclusion. So we have over 100 million people who are unbanked and we can perhaps use this technology to give them access, you know, to, to banking and to decentralized wallets. Then we look at Remittances. Pakistanis receive over 30 billion annually in, in remittances. So crypto rails could lower the fees and speed up the transfers drastically. Global investment, you know, there is clear crypto regulation that could attract billions in Web3 capital because we have the tech savvy youth that is ready to operate. And Pakistan has a chance to go from a passive consumer of technology to really be an active architect of this new technology. We, as I mentioned, have the third or the fourth largest freelancer market in the world. If we put the right regulation in place, this freelancer market would be more keen, would be more motivated to invest their skills. We have over 30,000, 40,000 IT graduates coming out every year. So they'll be investing into learning about web3 and hence why we'll see some great projects coming out of our country.
- [17:34]
Host
Do you see any challenges that may present themselves when we look at some of the intermediaries or banks, when we talk about making it easier, cheaper, faster to receive remittances from across the globe, when we talk about some of this, let's face it, disruption to the financial system, do you anticipate pushback from any of these intermediaries? And I ask you that because many of the countries who are further than Pakistan right now have gone through those, those challenges.
- [18:07]
Bilal bin Saqib
Then every major technological shift looked risky in early days from the Internet to mobile phones. But those who stayed curious, kept learning and started building, they end up taking the most advantage of this. So of course we will. This, this, this path will be full of obstacles and hence why we have to be agile enough to navigate ourselves and we want to learn from others. So other jurisdictions or countries that have faced issues, we want to already take a leaf out of their book and make sure how we mitigate that.
- [18:45]
Host
Bilal, thank you so much for joining Markets Daily today. We will continue to follow and watch the developments happening over in Pakistan and as you have more to share, please come back on the show. We would love to have you back and hear more about the innovation that's happening within your borders.
- [19:03]
Bilal bin Saqib
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure speaking to you, Jan.